Money: Do we really need it?

[Anonymous No.17024959]

Very few people are actually doing anything that directly benefits our own human existence in these modern times. No one is learning real skills of survival: how to live off their own land, build their own homes, even raising their own kids. These are all skills that take time and are insanely rewarding and beneficial to the human condition.

What we have today is people doing artificial work that is so far removed from what a human actually wants and thrives on. A human now aspires to go through school to learn how to code. This humans job is to create an algorithm that aims to derive as much data about you browsing the web for the corporation they work for. They sell your privacy data to ad companies that plan to further use it to try to take other's money from their own artificial jobs they got it from.

This is all for money and doing artificial things in order to get the most of it. Supposedly this value will somehow bring us happiness by being able to afford a McMansion built by third worlders. By being able to afford organic produce from the market. By being able to afford a luxury car. At least these are some of the things most aspire for in this modern world. These won't bring us happiness though. What will is being in tune with nature and using survival skills learned for self sufficiency.

Can't you see how easily there is rising depression in the world today? We are so far removed from what we actually need. Having an abundance of money will likely not give us the satisfaction we inherently desire.

Will we ever stop going down this path? Unfortunately, I don't believe so. We are too far removed for our own good. As stupid as this sounds, I think we will gravitate towards living in a completely fabricated world, like in the sci-fi movies. A world that you can build however you personally like. We won't be a physical human anymore, just survive in the "cloud".

Build an honest life for you and your family and help others when they are ready.

[Anonymous No.17025003]

You're gay.

[Anonymous No.17025008]

Being self sufficient is the dream, money still is a vehicle to get there.

Well spoken.

[Anonymous No.17025036]

>>17024959
I understand what you are trying to say. What's really cucked is that people don't even raise their own kids anymore. They send them off to day care and other places that cost money. Both parents work now and the kid grows up not even really knowing their own parents. Parents think they are doing the right thing by both working, but really it's fucked.

[Anonymous No.17025040]

>>17024959
i just need enough to:
>a car
>pay my career
>buy a boat
>money for food
>money to invest and get mo money

300k will pay for all that

[Anonymous No.17025044]

>>17024959
let's see,

Plato was an idiot. He thought his utopia was a state of being, never understood that things progress. He didn't plan for what comes AFTER perfection.

Nobody wants to live off the land, build their own homes, raise their kids. That shit sucks and we've spent tens of thousands of years trying to get away from it because nobody actually likes it.

You haven't defined what you mean by "beneficial." you just take some neoluddite fantasies and pretend they're beneficial despite enormous evidence to the contrary.

if you really feel like this get off the evil electronics and go do some farming and home building. Check back in 30 years and tell us how you benefited so we can laugh at you and remind you normal people don't like that stuff.

[Anonymous No.17025047]

>>17024959
money isn't real

[Anonymous No.17025179]

>>17025044
This is exactly what I meant, we are too far gone. You are already talking like the hive mind: "so we can laugh at you and remind you normal people don't like that stuff". Who gives a shit what a normal person thinks anymore. Most people today don't even really have their own free will or choices. They are boxed into this lifestyle and don't see any other way. It's a journey of self fulfillment, you don't need to care what anyone else thinks.

[Anonymous No.17025223]

>>17025044
>Nobody wants to live off the land, build their own homes, raise their kids.
i do you fucking negroid

[Anonymous No.17025226]

>>17025179
>It's a journey of self fulfillment
says who?

you seem to have this idea that human life has some noble purpose or something. You're just making it from the cradle to the grave with as little pain and as much pleasure as you can.

nothing more or less. There's nothing you need to accomplish, nothing you do matters. Humanity isn't going to benefit from anything you do or don't do. It's not even possible for a group to benefit anyways.

you're the one complaining about what others do. I already told you. If you want to do a thing, shut up and do it. Everyone else is already doing what they want.

[Anonymous No.17025245]

>>17025223
then you must be nobody.
get on with it, dirt person

[Anonymous No.17025345]

>>17025245
Na me too man, but i would'nt skip technology.

[Anonymous No.17025355]

I need money so that I can convince people to do real work for colored paper.

[Anonymous No.17025377]

>>17025245
Tes

[Anonymous No.17025380]

>>17024959
Did you just read Civilization and it's Discontents or something

[Anonymous No.17025384]

>>17025226
What you are saying here is pretty much my point besides thinking that we have a noble purpose. We are doing all these artificial things that's puts us further away from the things we actually need to learn how to do to survive on our own. What else does a human actually need to do in this world? Maybe after all survival needs are met you have some time to write an epic, or create and play some instrument. After a few things like that, what the fuck really else matters? Anything that comes after that is pure artificial garbage. It's like people putting themselves in debt today. They need an artificial problem created in order to find purpose and move forward in this artificial world to do artificial jobs.

[Anonymous No.17025389]

>>17025345
even if every single user on 4chan wanted the same thing we'd still - statistically speaking-
be nobody.

when I say nobody wants to do it, I mean the vast majority of the over 7,000,000,000 people on the planet do NOT want to grow their own food, build their own house, or raise their own kids.

the ones that hate it most are the ones actually doing it. Which is exactly why I say you guys should try it. I have. It sucks.

[Anonymous No.17025406]

>>17025384
>the things we actually need to learn how to do to survive on our own.
we have never survived on our own. That has literally never happened at any point in our history.

what makes you think we should go back to doing something we literally never did?

[Anonymous No.17025484]

>>17025389
Look fren the past 100 years or maybe more have provided humanity with alot of things that improved the quality of life drastically. Medicine, transportation, communication even having instant access to hot water used to be a luxury. At some point all the criteria for a good quality of life are met but we insist to improve and we build systems of money to allow for this improvement but the greed of people comes in the way and you end up living in a world where the population is indoctrinated by autonomous algorithms that brainwash you into liking a certain product by portraying a certain image to that product. You slowly begin to lose control over "humanity" and sure enough some cataclysm either ends humanity or gives birth to some new foreign species with an altered goal.

[Anonymous No.17025578]

>>17025484
I think it's pretty stupid to assume every grown ass person around you is indoctrinated into a system they hate and can't figure out how to leave it or change it.

every civilization that has invented agriculture also invented money at the same time. Every single one. Not only is greed and the desire to accumulate useless shit encoded permanently in our genes, but so is the desire to pay other people to do stuff we don't want to do. Like raise food or build houses or teach children.

[Anonymous No.17026145]

Reminder

[Anonymous No.17026769]

>>17024959
You are correct. Our society is a farce, forcing people into living in a way that is not good for us and spending time and energy on things we don't need, all for ephemeral 'ideals' thought up by some pseuds hundreds of years ago. All man needs is food, water, shelter and a family to be content.

[Anonymous No.17026796]

>>17026769
here's a nice video of DFW talking about how cancerous our society has become.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1PC1sArw70

[Anonymous No.17026815]

>>17025047
Lack of it is.

[Anonymous No.17026847]

>>17025044
The golem has spoken.

[Anonymous No.17026953]

>>17025389
>the ones that hate it most are the ones actually doing it.
This. I bet OP had never even driven a nail with a hammer before in his entire life.

[Anonymous No.17027210]

Not for much longer

[Anonymous No.17027211]

>>17026953
Does it really matter who is the one that notices the path we are on?

[Anonymous No.17027229]

>>17024959
> t. can't have money
> "do we really need it?"

[Anonymous No.17027643]

>>17027211
If you've read Plato as your pic implies, you know that none of your complaints are new. In fact they were extremely old when the ancient greeks voiced them thousands of years ago.

of course the problem is that these things only present as feelings and thoughts in the minds and hearts of people that have too much time on their hands. So the average person working for survival won't agree with you. The people actually farming the land and building their houses and raising their kids (most of the people in the world) are way too busy to agree with you. And the ones that really matter, the kids trying to get laid, are far too busy to agree with you.

so even if we pretend you're right and humanity has somehow strayed from its natural state in the propagation of technology, nobody actually cares. Because they're far too busy to give a fuck most of the time.

and to be blunt again, we've all gone camping before and most people don't like it so much that they want to make a lifestyle out of it. It's fine if you do, but don't be puzzled when others prefer hygiene, plentiful food, and no early death.

[Anonymous No.17027689]

>>17027211
forgot to post this, I thought you might enjoy it.

It's pretty snarky but it cuts to the actual problem... humans are lazy and given the choice the vast majority won't choose the labor of surviving in close proximity to nature.

[Anonymous No.17027729]

>>17024959
I sympathize with this, but this is how human beings are. This is what evolution is. An environment changes. Some adapt, and others don't.

[Anonymous No.17027741]

>>17026815
When you visit Disney Land and need Disney Dollars to interact. You live in a different Disney Land.

Leave or stay.

[Anonymous No.17027760]

>>17027643
This kind of post isn't welcome here.

[Anonymous No.17027874]

>>17024959
>>17025044
I agree with the neoluddite assessment. Dismantling society and having everyone become subsistence farmers or hunter-gatherers is retarded and never going to happen. I do agree with OP sentiment regarding benefit to human existence though. So many jobs and industries are totally pointless right now. Just rent seekers and make work jobs. All of wall street just siphons money out of people that are actually producing value, working at a restaurant is totally pointless and contributes nothing to humanity. My own job as an engineer is totally pointless, I do R&D and only have a job because my employer can write off my salary. But even still, my company is only in business because we have good sales guys, there is no urgent need for our product. And half of our customers(we sell industrial and agricultural products) use our systems to produce things of no real value anyway. Its all so pointless, I need to be better at rent seeking.

[Anonymous No.17027959]

>>17024959
I WANT TO MAKE GAMES SO FUCKING BAD
I MADE SOME COOL CONCEPT DEMOS AND ANIMATIONS BUT NO ONE GIVES A SHIT ABOUTGMY KICKSTARTERS
IM GOING TO WIN AN:YWAYS I FUCKING SWEAR

I JUST NEED SOME FUCKING MONEY!J!!! I NEED MONEY! FUCK YOURE OP I NEED MONEY! stupid bitch!!!!!!!

[Anonymous No.17028014]

>>17027959
show demo

[Anonymous No.17028036]

We need money so we can serve the Jews better. Goyim must serve the jew at any cost.

[Anonymous No.17028237]

>>17024959
OP is a faggot

Harmony is important, especially with nature. But if you dont like something and want others to follow lead by example rather than by preaching anti-technological sentiment on fucking 4chan.

Psychedellics + a greater understanding of science + all faiths and spiritual practices and the common archetypes present in all human stories from all of our 100+ thousand years of history is the way.

Zen is unironically great

[Anonymous No.17028387]

>>17024959
There is a danger to glamorize working with nature and animals but yes I agree that this is much more satisfying. I think man derives pleasure from seeing products made by his own hands. Most modern jobes are psychologically exhausting because you cannot see the end-result of your work, or the end-result of your work is pointless. I disagree with the statement made by a poster that people wanted to get away from this kind of life because it sucks, that could be true to a degree, but I think technological progress after a certain point is mostly due to resource competition not trying to make life more comfortable, ie technological advancement and changes in society are the result of people trying to rise the dominance hierarchy, not because they want to escape from working the fields. The problem is we are now in a bubble where all actions are done solely to increase one's financial and social status. Hence work has ceased being meaningful, and society kind of sucks. Money and commodities have triumphed over humanity. I would be quite happy with deindustrialization and localization, that there would be small towns each with its own carpenter, bakery, shepherds, local products etc. etc. This isn't going to come without a mass catastrophy and depopulation though, which I think it's entirely likely in the future. If I were to bet, I would say we are en route into a major catastrophy, everybody knows it and yet nobody can do anything about it, after this thing implodes I imagine people will look back at these things as a cautionary tale of what not to do. Probably a dip similar to the fall of Roman Empire towards early middle ages, except at a much grander scale. I imagine you will see a religious revival after this thing implodes and people will be wary of getting into that rat-race for money and social status, at least for a considerable amount of time.

[Anonymous No.17028423]

You can't separate oneself from money in this world, because those with money will find ways to exploit you.
Just look at any native peoples prior to western influences. The ones that rejected them were killed off, enslaved, or interbred

[Anonymous No.17028427]

>>17024959
>"What we have today is people doing artificial work that is so far removed from what a human actually wants and thrives on"

If you're going to say anything with your post, you should at least make an attempt to explicitly articulate what a human "actually wants and thrives on".

The entirety of your post reads as wishy-washy, hand-waving conjecture of generalizations on what humans truly desire and will find fulfillment through. There are clearly biological needs that we require as a social species, but you discount the fact that humans are able to override conditioned social behavior and to an extent our biological needs at any given time and adapt. For example, religious celibacy. Humans consciously choosing to abstain from the act of procreating, thereby according to you, would be something detrimental to their condition. Who are you again to say spiritually exalted people are fundamentally lacking in their fulfillment by not engaging in sex and raising kids?

If you took a serious study of humans you'd realize that there is nothing static about what humans derive joy from. Wishing to return to a golden age of foraging type societies when we ourselves can't even definitively state, beyond inferences made from small sample sizes of rare artifacts that have survived today, about how they lived, their cultures, their ways of thinking...that is exactly as another poster has described as being a neoluddite.

[Anonymous No.17028514]

>>17025389
>the ones that hate it most are the ones actually doing it. Which is exactly why I say you guys should try it. I have. It sucks.
does it really?
I made some money in 2017 and life is shit when you have no family, no purpose, nothing to feel good about

don't you ever test yourself?
don't you want to achieve something just to see if you can?
not giving a shit about anything is goytalk

[Anonymous No.17028710]

>>17024959
OP is a faggot

Harmony is important, especially with nature. But if you dont like something and want others to follow lead by example rather than by preaching anti-technological sentiment on fucking 4chan.

Psychedellics + a greater understanding of science + all faiths and spiritual practices and the common archetypes present in all human stories from all of our 100+ thousand years of history is the way.

Zen is unironically great

[Anonymous No.17028745]

>>17024959
Survival skills aren't needed to today's society. And the earth's ecosystem will be completely and totally fucked by the time society collapses so your survival skills won't mean shit.

[Anonymous No.17028785]

>>17028710
earth is flat and only 6000 years old you hippie faggot

[Anonymous No.17029707]

>>17028514
getting up at the buttcrack of dawn to go farm for 14 hours is a distraction from the meaninglessness of your life, not a fulfillment of purpose.

which is fine. If you need to be distracted then by all means get on with it. But there's easier hobbies than trying to survive on your own. Safer ones as well since planting and watering and weeding and harvesting doesn't take any real thought so your brain is likely to go right back down the roads you're trying to keep it from.

[Anonymous No.17030187]

>>17024959
i agree 100% with you OP and i had similar ideas around 2008-2012, i also tried to get more people interested in such way of thinking, but i think people weren't ready for such mental gymnastics then. Some things probably changed since that time, but i don't think we've reached the critical mass in consciousness evolution yet desu

godspeed anon, keep up the good work

[Anonymous No.17030553]

Yes you are right we should always focus on basics of human values & teaching, but it is also necessary to copeup with the modern world so that we are not left behind without losing our human values & we need to safe guard our wealth & privacy, In coming days one can be financially robbed by physically as well as technologically this would increase with increase in adoption of digital cryptocurrency we can protect such theft from decentralized internet which is unique technology new organizations such as tachyon protocol have already started providing service for secure, private & decentralised internet service with next generation VPN technology.

[Anonymous No.17030635]

>>17025226
>There's nothing you need to accomplish, nothing you do matters.
Says you. Anyone can string some assertions together and call it an argument. There is something to accomplish and everything you do matters. See, that was easy.

[Anonymous No.17030932]

>>17024959
Actually i think VR in a few decades will significantly lower the world population. Zoomer don't have sex anymore, let alone have children, and there won't be a trend reversal. What is good with VR, is that is doesn't consume mmuch ressources. So these people will just get lost in VR, when a small minority of others would want to live in the real world. Most humans will probably join the machines, the others will want to remain humans.

[Anonymous No.17030970]

>>17024959
Yes. All throughout History we have had money, and we didnt always have a central bank. Money is necessary because you need a universal means of exchange. If you had were, say a blacksmith, and you wanted to eat chicken, and there was no money you were fucked, because unless you sold a sword to a farmboi, you would be limited to eat what people were willing to trade with you. Money allows you to convert your hard work into pretty much whatever you desire, and not just what people are willing to give you. Money doesnt come from evil people, evil people come from money.

[Anonymous No.17031189]

>>17028427
Humans today have to deal with too many variables created by the artificial processes we've created. I believe that we cannot handle all of these things. It is not simple enough and overwhelming how much it takes to be what is considered a good human being today. Just think about all the things we worry about.

[Anonymous No.17031241]

>>17031189
Which is why I can see how our brains aren't going to keep up with ourselves. We want to keep achieving and going down this path but we will have to integrate very closely with technology to achieve that. We just won't have the processing power.

[Anonymous No.17032168]

>>17030932
I'm hoping it works out that way.