/biz/ - Business & Finance

Are none of you cunts actually paying attention to this shit? They are making leaps and bounds of progress every fucking day with this thing.

>>16812852
then tell us about it with memes and graphs

>>16812826
You can't stop something that never started

>>16812826
it will be once exchanges adopt it seriously

If you have 0.1 BTC in the Lightning Network and it costs 0.2 BTC to settle it, do you really have Bitcoin?

>>16812826

>>16812852
why would anyone care about a mesh of nodes validating transactions without PoW?

I'm excited about BitCoin not some weirdos' alt-coin "recreate the current bank system but with a tinge of hacker green" experiment.

>>16813255
Transactions have been going through at 1 sat/byte for like 2 years now. High Bitcoin fees are bcash propaganda

iys goofy af. no need to have a token pseudo net to try and keep bitcorn fresh. there are waaaayyyy better on chain high speed solutions with better economic functions and no girls getting vc diversity wastage. lightning is nothing outside of the pedojew social media nothing called twitter

>>16813269
how many blocks would it take for 5% of the world population to open a channel? How many days would it take to clear those blocks? What if we included the exchange->wallet transactions?

Have you dipped your toe into the 3rd grade math of the LN? It was built to fail.

>>16813298
And routing is still unsolved.

>>16813267
The only thing that matters is liquidity. Liquidity is the only thing that gives money value, knowing that you can always exchange it with anyone. That brings in more liquidity and it continues to snowball. Imagine modern crypto banks being able to swing millions of dollars between each other in milliseconds with a lightning channel. The average crypto user will just have an account in a centralized database built on top of the bank managed lightning channels. Crypto boomers will use lightning natively and manage keys but 99% of people won't. Like it or not this is the future and it is a winner take all game. Get onboard or get rekt in alts

>>16813315
AMPs just got implemented. Routes work great and will only get better over time

>>16813269
>High Bitcoin fees are bcash propaganda

BTC is literally built to have the highest fees possible. That's the goal.

>>16813321

Oh hi O1G. Having fun today bud?

>>16813298
99% if the population will not open a lightning channel dumbass. Only faggots like us want to manage keys, everyone else wants their money insured and backed up so they don't lose a piece of paper that secured their life savings. Lightning will be the institutional banking layer for Bitcoin.

>>16813259
have you ever seen a chromecast?

>>16813321
This guy gets it. Bitcoin and LN is too complicated for most people. Using banks as an intermediary for crypto was always going to happen. This way we get the best user experience with all the benefits of Bitcoin.

>>16813352

Why would banks want to give all their bitcoin to miners?

>>16813321
ha no. many stores of value , rare cars art stunning heavy rocks, huge chunks of usa have zero trades on most days. yet they all grow in purchasing power while the dollar dies in its every losing inflationary death spiral

>>16813363
LN makes mining irrelevant. There will be some miners sure, but the majority of the action will be running a LN node. PoW is wasteful anyway.

>>16813390
>LN makes mining irrelevant. There will be some miners sure, but the majority of the action will be running a LN node. PoW is wasteful anyway.

bahahahahahaha

and what makes you think it will be profitable to run a LN node?

https://www.trustnodes.com/2019/08/20/guy-makes-20-a-month-for-locking-5-million-worth-of-bitcoin-on-the-lightning-network

>>16813390
This is some prime delusion

>>16813355
This. It's honestly impressive that we call bitcoin digital gold, but then when the chance comes to make it behave like digital gold with more benefits, we cry about it.

>>16813397
Once more people are onboarded and there are more transactions major hubs will form to capture MILLIONS in fees. People won't even care about miners any more. Fuckem.

>>16813402
Says the guy hodling knockoff Bitcoin.

>>16812852
they're too busy fluffing their altcoins owner.
don't worry, people that matter notice

>>16813390
ln can't function without mining

>>16813435

So who would secure the chain?

Lightning is BlockStream's END GAME. TX fees on lightning do not go to Bitcoin Core miners. When Block rewards reach Zero, Bitcoin is suppose to survive using the Transaction fees, which it wont have since lighting will have 99.99% adoption. Everything is forced to move to KIKEchain GG wp.

>>16813723
last bitcoins are mined 2140.
those jews really plan far ahead

Fees will go up and bitcoin will grow in stages
Lightning can take on more users so channel management fees can be higher than a single transaction fee
On chain will be like making a multisig safety deposit vault and it costs say $20 no big deal
There will be many use cases and bitcoin will adjust as it grows

>>16813327
fake news buy bsv link brudda

>>16813750
Do you know how bitcoin block rewards work? It's not a linear fucking emission you moron

There is a small fee market today even while 1sat/byte is going through
But as the ln hits its onboarding stage all 1-2 sat/byte transactions will be clogged with turbo channels or something with a non custodial value prop

In lightning you have to interact with the main chain if you want bitcoin's security
Lightning is just a complex smart contract meshnet
It can be developed and upgraded outside bitcoins protocol giving bitcoin more security and lightning more ability to evolve
Its why layers make the most sense

>>16812826
https://bitcoinvisuals.com/lightning

Nothing's happening.

>>16813723
hope you're being paid for this, one can't possibly be this stupid.

>>16813863

>In lightning you have to interact with the main chain if you want bitcoin's security

Which will be impossible unless the 1mb block size is raised. Which will never, ever happen.

>>16814434
why?
you can do millions of transactions and only have it settled by one transaction on the mainnet. ie. all transactions from a month/year can be settled with one single transaction on the BTC ledger.

Literally what is the point of using a blockchain if the only people who use it are payment processors and banks? All they do is settle on BTC. That means the ledger that is used by everyone else is controlled by 3rd parties.

Lightning completely defeats the point of Bitcoin.

>>16814504
why would the only people using it be payment processors and banks? you act like it's either or, it's both.

>>16814514
The only people settling up on BTC will be banks. Nobody will use BTC for payments. It's too expensive and slow. The whole reason for 1mb blocks is to create demand for a banking solution for payments lmao.

BTC is such a frankencoin. It use to have instant payments and low predictable fees.

>>16814530
there is so much wrong with that post i don't know where to start. don't know who you are fluffing, but enjoy that alt that can't even scale and stay decentralized.

meanwhile btc payments show up after a few seconds for a fee much less than a few years ago.

>>16814577
>btc payments show up after a few seconds for a fee much less than a few years ago
Wtf are you talking about? BTC literally doesn't have payments. It only settles every ten minutes. RBF and full blocks made sure of that. Like I said these things were done to create demand for payment solutions like Lightning and Liquid. Stop being a retarded niggerfaggot.

>>16814659
keep fluffing gayboy

>>16814485
Kek this. You large blockers are clearly terrified of lightning network. Because with it, your coin is completely irrelevant. Small blocks are important for a more decentralized and secure network. This is the ideal solution

>>16812826
I'm really fucking excited for this. hyperbitcoinization coming earlier than expected.

>>16813605
it will always be profitable to mine bitcoin.

>>16812826
>The Lightning Network is literally UNSTOPPABLE.

To the TRASH is goes. STIFF

>>16813397
I want her real bad, anons.

>>16812826
important information
https://old.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/dm0b4y/warning_if_you_try_to_use_the_lightning_network/

it's useless when we have bsv

>>16815888
bsv can't do what lightning can do tho

This is why I'm 100% BTC. Its the new gold, but there are all these ways it will be easily traded cheap and fast but just have to be developed. BTC will hit $1-0mil after adoption of lightning.

Big blocks are a brainlet scaling solution. If a transaction is 1kb and the block size is 1mb you can for 1000 per block. Increase the blocks to 2mb and now you got 2000 per block. This is just a linear increase, more resource cost for extra transactions.
Lightning is exponential scaling, you get millions of extra transactions for the same resource cost.

>>16815978
yes this is true but the matter is more complicated than that. sustaining miners and fees are also a factor but the cashie notion that more tx = more fees is evidently wrong just have to take a look at actual data. on the other hand lightning at scale would require 100mb blocks or more.

>>16816031
tldr it's all about timing it's not a question of if btc increases the block size but when? and blockstream and the btc devs in general did not impress me in their economic proficiency communication skills and their impeccable timing so far.

Using it every week. Lots of companies are rolling out their integrations lately, most prominently Bitfinex. Not long before other major apps follow suit. The "it's too hard" comments ITT look silly when you see the latest interfaces for these things. That being said, IMO the average Bitcoin user will be the slowest to adopt at first. Most don't want to sell at these prices and are just hodling their coin. When the bull market is in full swing we will see more people casually interacting with it. They will want to realize their gains using some of these retail apps that already have it set up. Traders will use it for arbitrage and for moving their money around in general. It will be a good stress test. We're in a good spot now but it will become even more refined this year.

>>16812852
I buy bitcoin after every time I attend a bit devs meetup and see how many beautiful turbo autists are working on this.