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/biz/ - Business & Finance


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16626616 No.16626616 [Reply] [Original]

How come Amazon doesn't really have a big online retailer competitor?

Perhaps eBay would be the closest thing, but they are pretty different since it's an auction site.

I suppose in the US there's Best Buy and Walmart and whatever, but obviously they're not dedicated online retailers. In my country, the UK, there are equivalent physical/online retailers too, like Argos or Tesco or whatever, but there's no real dedicated purely-online competitor.

I've read recently lots of people saying Amazon should be broken up. In particular, people arguing that Amazon the retailer should be separated from Amazon Marketplace (where other retailers can sell their goods). But you'd think if Amazon had proper online competitors then this breaking up wouldn't need to happen.

>> No.16626674

easy, it was first and it's cheap.
as soon as amazon itself has to make profit it will get competion
if you break it up amazon online shop wont be able to sustain itself unless it increases it's income

>> No.16626693

It’s a very catchy name

>> No.16626723

>>16626616

They killed them all off.

>> No.16626732

>>16626616
they moved to fast, to the point its hard to catch up

>> No.16626737

Walmart, Target, Sears, all of them basically refused to get into online shopping before Amazon had already conquered the market because thats not really how they were making money. Most large superstores barely turn a profit on most goods but because Jimmy with a lisp says "SHELLWO" to you when you walk in, they let meth-heads sleep in the parking lot, and they've got a bunch of commercial stores inside they essentially pay no taxes on their income. They didn't understand how to make money by actually selling things, which required a major overhaul in logistics and material handling, as well as the computer programming to organize it all and keep the website going, all of which Bezos was able to do.

In short, they have no competition because Jeff Bezos had an incredible work ethic and reinvented the marketplace for the digital age, and they aren't good enough to compete with that.

>> No.16626757
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16626757

>>16626616
Because they have legitimate competition shut down by the state.

>> No.16626774

>>16626616
At this point they are miles ahead, its over. Their fullfillment network is way too advanced for a newcomer to have a shot gg

>> No.16626803
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16626803

>>16626616
Walmart.com

>> No.16626805

>>16626616
The big reason is that people taught under the old school business education ideas just cant keep up with change. I worked for amazon for years and they literally change shit on the fly. An employee can go up to any manager/supervisor and say "hey, lets do it this way" and the bosses will think about it for a day or two and if it sounds good they will implement the change. Literally, a day 1 temp worker can suggest something that can suggest something that can affect the operating procedures of the entire company. Every other company operates like a communist army. Do as you are told and dont talk. You think we should change? Fuck you, we cut your hours. Very few people that operate a company, even a small business, can even begin to comprehend how Amazon can just change the fucking rules and keep on rolling. Thats how they stay ahead of the curve and crush the competition.

>> No.16626816

>>16626616

you've played monopoly before right? that's how this game ends

>> No.16626820

>>16626805
>>16626805

how is the working condition at amazon ?

do you feel bezos deserve his wealth or he worked hard / got lucky and now nobody can't compete

>> No.16626958

NWO monopolized shopping site. Eventually it will be the only place to buy anything. Everything tracked and recorded to your account.

>> No.16626998

Alibaba

>> No.16627011

>>16626616
Isnt the only thing profitable there AWS?

>> No.16627040

First movers advantage of a marketplace that allows various vendors to host their business on top of it. Amazon started way back during the dot com bubble and has set the tone for an all around marketplace. The best companies put customers first.

There is talk about how Amazon employees suffer long shifts and it's a hard job working in an Amazon warehouse. That's the way it is and Bezos is at the top of his game. They went from selling books to selling everything and they continue to innovate the way e-commerce business is done. Amazon Prime service to the technology Bezos is investing in (cashier-free stores and drone delivery service).

Amazon adapts at a faster rate and puts ideas to the test instead of sitting on ideas. Other companies don't analyze and take risks like they do.

And of course the convenience of ordering online now is simply more preferable than going to a brick and mortar store. The benefits of spending $13.99 a month for one or two day shipping is what a lot of people like because they have poor time management skills. People work two jobs these days and are too tired to go shopping and wait in line. When a company like Amazon can match prices and provide so many convenient services, why not choose them over driving 45 minutes to a Wal-Mart or JC Penney or a Lowe's.

>> No.16627043

>>16626616
This will fuck bezos in the end. Spotify, even Tidal is outdoing amazon in music streaming sales. Disney and other studios will abandon amazon for paid streaming movies. Sephora and Ulta run the fragrance and makeup market and their brands refuse to fuck with amazon.

Amazon will end up being a dollar online store selling shithole india and chinese junk sold by zoomers and movie streams of 70% bollywood flicks and the rest, old dubbed kung fu flicks nobody gives a shit about. Walmart and Target are already exceeding amazon in sales this holiday season.

>> No.16627061

>>16626616
eBay is absolute shit tier. So is Amazon. Seller get royally fucked and have no recourse in any situation where the buyer scams them. The wheels will fall off eventually.

>> No.16627071

Amazon is an exploitative shit company, that needs it's ass handed to
Sweatshop warehouses and distributing centres full of questionable illegals, and more tax evasion than Capone got taken down for
All of which kills off local businesses and economies, and we're supposed to say thank you for the turd in our hands

>> No.16627090

>>16626674
Microsoft was the first massive software company, and yet Apple and Google still survived and give them very stiff competition.

>>16626693
Dumbest post I've read in a while.

>>16626723
Yeah maybe you're right, but it's weird when so many other tech-related industries still have a lot of competition.

>>16626732
>>16626737
True, Jeff Bezos is clearly a mental dude, and he's built a company of slaves essentially, but it's just weird that nobody else really competed toe-to-toe with them. Microsoft had Apple. And now they have Google too. And Amazon themselves of course in many areas (Azure vs AWS, Mixer vs Twitch, to a lesser extent Alexa vs Cortana, although Cortana is obviously dead now, etc.)

It's just weird that other companies haven't really tried to go toe-to-toe with Amazon.

There are definitely other successful online retailers, but they tend to be quite specialist. E.g. in my country the UK, there's Asos who are a very successful clothes retailer online, there's Bulk Powders and MyProtein who sell whey powder and other fitness foodstuffs, etc. But there's no real general purpose online retailer to compete with Amazon. eBay is probably the closest thing, even though it's pretty different.

I guess there is Rakuten, the Japanese e-commerce company. Apparently they don't even operate in Europe these days though because they're too lazy to be GDPR compliant. One of the sites they bought, Play.com, used to be a player in the UK, back in the 2000s, selling music and DVDs and stuff, the same sort of stuff Amazon mostly sold at the time. But yeah, now Rakuten can't even be bothered to become GDPR compliant.

It's just odd.

>> No.16627092

>>16626737
Im sure it has nothing to do with them being a cia front.

>> No.16627094

>>16627061
ebay isn't as strict on selling shit though.

>> No.16627109

>>16627011
It's probably their most profitable venture for sure, I wouldn't call it their only profitable part of their business though.

>> No.16627128

>>16627043
Amazon, Twitter, and Facebook will combine into a trio of all that the world will use for their shopping, socializing, and news sources.

Everything is being monopolized and companies are merging together. Globalization is increasing rapidly. In order to stop it, we need to do peer to peer business with one another selling our own items. I make a table and you make mac and cheese. We exchange Bitcoin for it without relying on a central bank or authority to do it.

P2P decentralized networking is the answer to monopolized corporate industrial complex.

>> No.16627134

>>16626805
> I worked for amazon for years and they literally change shit on the fly. An employee can go up to any manager/supervisor and say "hey, lets do it this way" and the bosses will think about it for a day or two and if it sounds good they will implement the change. Literally, a day 1 temp worker can suggest something that can suggest something that can affect the operating procedures of the entire company. Every other company operates like a communist army. Do as you are told and dont talk. You think we should change? Fuck you, we cut your hours.
I'm surprised you say this, given everything I've heard about how brutal Amazon are as a company - how anti-employee they are. How employees get fired for taking legitimate sick days under doctor's orders (I read a BBC story about this).

>> No.16627163

>>16627094
eBay enforcing managed payments in a year or two was a huge mistake. They should have made a deal with PayPal. By pissing off sellers, eBay is going to go to shit when sellers bail out. Now eBay has to sell stubhub to make ends meet. Also a huge mistake which cost them their
CEO. They really should have focused more on promoting themselves this season with funny youtube / tv ads with celebs.

>> No.16627181

>>16626958
I sure as fuck hope not. I wouldn't be completely opposed to the US government breaking them up. Amazon's second ever employee (hasn't worked for them in over 20 years at this point) thinks that Amazon Marketplace should be separated from Amazon the retailer. Because he argues it's unfair that Amazon can collect data on Marketplace sellers, and then just come in with a competing product and put their own product at the top of search results, thus decimating the Marketplace seller. It's like if eBay came along and decided that they're going to sell their own stuff from themselves directly, and they're going to use all the data they've collected on individual sellers to crush those sellers into oblivion.

https://www.vox.com/recode/2019/12/20/21031694/amazon-employee-break-up-paul-barton-davis-marketplace-sellers

>>16626998
AliExpress, sure. I should have mentioned them in the OP. But not Alibaba, because they're a B2B site. AliExpress is B2C and thus comparable to Amazon, sure.

But they're still not completely comparable, given that they basically only sell bargain stuff from Chinese retailers. I bet the vast majority of Americans have never even heard of AliExpress, let alone shopped with them. I'm not American but I mention America because they're such a big and important market in the West. Well, the most important market.

>> No.16627199

>>16626616
amazon doesn't need competitors. it is the most efficient distribution mechanism for getting goods from producer to customer that the world has ever seen. it is so cheap and fulfils so many needs that it is basically welfare for the bread and circuses consumer, which is why governments tolerate it

>> No.16627223

>>16627040
>And of course the convenience of ordering online now is simply more preferable than going to a brick and mortar store.
You're right, which is why I'm so surprised that nobody has really tried to come along and compete with them. I was just listening to a BBC podcast about Amazon's dominance, and the dude was talking about how he wanted to support local high street shops (the American translation of that would be "mom and pop stores" - the "high street" in the UK is basically like "main street" in the US). But I was thinking, why not other online retailers? Why aren't there any other online retailers you could go to? Amazon have clearly proven that e-commerce is something that consumers want; it's more convenient and it costs less, because you're not paying for prime real estate for your shops. So it's just weird that there aren't any other real competitors. There are in some ways, like eBay, or specialist online retailers like Asos in the UK (a successful online clothes retailer), or Walmart (who sell in physical stores and online), but there doesn't seem to be any other companies who are trying to be online-only generalist stores like Amazon.

This is the podcast: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p07y35w1

>> No.16627245

>>16627128
HAHAHAH....No
The future is niche markets. Lowe's, Walgreen's, Autozone. Sephora, the return of Toys R Us, Best Buy is exploding again. This is what people want. They seek knowledgeable help. Department stores is cheap, boomer shit with dumbass workers who don't know shit about anything but smartphones.

>> No.16627246

>>16627199
But it's just weird that nobody has really tried to compete. Microsoft had Apple, and now they have Google too (and Amazon themselves as well in some areas, mainly Azure vs AWS). IBM had all the PC manufacturers that competed with them. Compaq, HP, Packard Bell, and smaller ones like Time, whatever. Amazon doesn't really have a competitor who is trying to do the same thing. There are other specialist online retailers, or physical retailers with an online presence, but there aren't really any other generalist online retailers trying to go toe-to-toe with Amazon. eBay is similar in ways but obviously isn't completely the same since it's an auction site, and also eBay don't sell anything themselves, they're just a platform.

>> No.16627329

>>16626616
Amazon got where it is now by offering that none of the competitors do: stellar customer protection!

Yes they fuck sellers, but also acknowledge every quality problem with their own products. No more bitching about DOA items or damaged parts. The funny thing is that in my country they are not even the cheapest!

>> No.16627352
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16627352

>>16627128
>In order to stop it, we need to do peer to peer business with one another selling our own items. I make a table and you make mac and cheese. We exchange Bitcoin for it without relying on a central bank or authority to do it.
Sorry libertard but your delusions bear no resemblance to reality.

Have you literally never heard of antitrust legislation?

>>16627245
Specialist online retailers clearly do succeed - in the UK we have ones like Asos who are an online clothes retailer, and are very successful, and ones like Bulk Powders and MyProtein, who sell protein powder and other fitness foodstuffs, and they do very well also. But I just find it weird that there aren't really any other general-purpose online-only retailers like Amazon. eBay are similar but they don't sell stuff themselves, they're just a platform, so it's not really the same. Rakuten, the Japanese e-commerce retailer, are maybe a competitor in some markets, but apparently they don't even operate properly in Europe anymore due to GDPR (getting compliant with that is not difficult, I guess they're just lazy, or maybe they're just failing as a business). Maybe they do well in some markets, I don't know.

It's just weird. I mean look at a company like Netflix - even they have competition (ironically from Amazon themselves, with Amazon Prime Video). And then look at Spotify, they have competition from Tidal, Google Play Music, Apple Music, and other online music streaming services... including Amazon again.

But nobody is even really trying to compete with Amazon for general-purpose online retailing.

>> No.16627410

>>16627181
About Americans and aliexpress - maybe they don't know of it. But that's neither here nor there because Amazon itself is now selling lots of shit from aliexpress. I'm of the same opinion as one anon in this thread, if Amazon continues like this it will become a shitty dollar store with no quality control.

>> No.16627477

>>16627352
maybe cause it's hard work.
check out walmart's and amazon's net profit margins. they're fighting over scraps and requires huge investments over a long period of time just to get in the game.
rather start a fat high margin niche business or burn vc money to develop a useless app

>> No.16627510

>>16627352
Amazon had eBay as its main competitor, but people don't want to bid for a item or buy used items, they want to buy brand new items instantly without the hassle of waiting.

>> No.16627555

>>16627410
Amazon wants to be the online version of walmart retail stores. Bezos is a shitty business strategist. Look how he cucked out half his earnings to his ex-wife. He hacked the Walton family strategy by finding shithole country distributors and knocking out the competition, but Americans are sentimental by default. They're sick of buying no name products online. They want their malls back. They don't want porch thieves.

>> No.16627568

They have invested heavily in fulfillment centres for decades. They are so far ahead of any competitors it will take a massive gamble to try and compete, one that not many people are willing to take.

>> No.16627592

>>16626616
Alibaba is technically their competition but it's not popular with americans or other western people because why buy from alibaba and wait weeks for a delivery when you can buy from amazon and get something in days?

>> No.16627607

>>16626805
Bullshit they dont change shit

>> No.16627651

>>16627134
You might be surprised buts it true. Companies welcome their wagies to make suggestions that will make their company more productive and profitable. Even when wagies innovate and save firms millions all they get in return is $10 vouchers and a picture on a wall

>> No.16627690

>>16627011
Yes, the rest of this thread is retarded morons

>> No.16627730
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16627730

>> No.16627807

>>16626616
amazon marketplace is where its at.
they managed to get the monopoly on consumer internet searches, they are now the google of consumer products if you will.
this means that every company that wants to stay visible on the market has to accept amazons terms, sell on their page and pay them a huge divident => therefore amazon basically has a private consumer income tax now.

whoever you are, whatever you produce: unless you list it on amazon and pay them a private tax for being visible on their page, your revenue will tank.

>> No.16627862

>>16627410
>if Amazon continues like this it will become a shitty dollar store with no quality control
They're already having those problems, like when Marketplace retailers use an old product listing, with good reviews, to list a completely unrelated product. So you look at a listing for an iPhone cable let's say (I actually noticed this exact thing on an iPhone cable listing the other day), and the reviews look good, but if you actually read the reviews, you see that they're about completely unrelated products. Like a scarf, or a sweater, or whatever.

>>16627477
Yeah maybe you're right, but you would've thought that SOMEONE would attempt it.

>>16627510
Yeah true. Which is why I think it's surprising that Amazon doesn't have a more direct competitor than eBay's similar-but-definitely-not-the-same model.

>> No.16627865

>>16626805
Lol as someone that works in e-commerce software I can tell you that Amazon is just as shitty as old school companies in that regard. Lots of rumors about infighting and tribalism between different departments. Excruciating slow dev processes and dumb decision making. The software part of Amazon feels like a slow moving mess of clutter. Not streamlined at all. Might be different for the logistics side of Amazon though.

>> No.16628029

>>16626616
Amazon sucks and so does any product with their name on it. I can get better priced goods pretty much anywhere else or on eBay.

>> No.16628297

>>16627865
Organizations become less efficient the larger they become.

>> No.16628398

Because between government regulations, amazon paying zero in federal income tax and getting giant subsidies its close to impossible. That’s like asking why isn’t there another google.

>> No.16628439

>>16626616
>How come Amazon doesn't really have a big online retailer competitor?
havent you ever heard of wish or aliexpress? they are HUGE amazon competitors

>> No.16628491

>>16627090
>I guess there is Rakuten, the Japanese e-commerce company. Apparently they don't even operate in Europe these days though because they're too lazy to be GDPR compliant. One of the sites they bought, Play.com, used to be a player in the UK, back in the 2000s, selling music and DVDs and stuff, the same sort of stuff Amazon mostly sold at the time. But yeah, now Rakuten can't even be bothered to become GDPR compliant.
What about alibaba?

>> No.16628639
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16628639

chainlink

>> No.16629016

>>16627592
You dont get it.
Alibaba is successful because of Amazon and vice versa.
More than half of Amzn sales come from 3rd party sellers and the majority of these are buying wholesale items from alibaba and sell them on Amzn.
They dont just sell their product on Amzn like ebay sellers do. They get their product stored and shipped by amazon too. Amazon charge a fee for storage and shipping and a % of the sale. but the catch is 99% of the time the only way to get your item on amzn prime is to have them store and ship it.
Amzn prime products dominate sales and the "buy box" so basically unless amazon are charging you to store and ship (and take a %) your product you will struggle to sell even at a cheaper price.

>> No.16629091

>>16626958
No need for Amazon to do that when you can already do it with Bitcoin.

>> No.16629184

>>16628398
this

>> No.16629191

>>16626737
This. Same as iTunes, they dominated because they were first, and when they launched, it was all "Apple is dead, hur hur they're so stooopid!"
Amazon is so far ahead of the competition, nobody expect maybe Musk has the cash to even start building out the infrastructure to catch up. When you're drinking Walmart's milkshake, you fucking WON.
The only thing that can beat Amazon is Amazon, or the government. Bezos is taking good care of both.

>> No.16629194

>>16626616
nobody with a real brand is willing to tarnish their brand by having third-party sellers sell fake products on their website. amazon gets away with is somehow

>> No.16629278

>>16629191
Not true, well sorta. If Walmart went Public they would be able to raise billions upon billions in funding to pursue Amazon. Whether or not that's a good thing for them is another story. I suppose if Amazon ever lowers the cost of grocery delivery to the point where it's free/1$ for the poor people, then Walmart will have to start shitting bricks. Right now delivery is a costly service, but I suspect it will only get cheaper with time. One avenue Amazon can take it is lobbying legality in funding workers with non-cash salaries - free room and board in a hivemind hostel/boarding home owned by Amazon. Free coffee and sawdust breakfast at the cafe owned by Amazon. Free amenities and water, also owned by Amazon, to which point everything needed or wanted for quality of life is given to the employee in trade for salary. This would include Health Insurance, maybe dental if you bring enough h1b dentists over. At that point Amazon could work their slaves to death and build a cult over their currency of gift cards, and at that point it's game over. Not even the cult of Disney would be able to compete with a physical, actual force of corporate soldiers. Just my hypothetical of course, though it doesn't seem implausible twenty years from now.

>> No.16629288

>>16629278
As a caveat I mean if the Waltons sold their shares or actually pushed for rapid fire rounds from investors.

>> No.16629931 [DELETED] 
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16629931

>>16626616
>my country, the UK
It's not your country, Ahmed. You have to go back.

>> No.16630444 [DELETED] 
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16630444

>>16626616
People don't realize amazon is less than 50% of the e-commerce in the US. They have tons of competitors. Walmart is slowly gaining ground every year

https://youtu.be/f3NBQcAqyu4
Bezos did say they faced no competition to AWS for 7 years tho @35:43

>> No.16630453
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16630453

Amazon is less than 50% of the e-commerce in the US. They have tons of competitors. Walmart is slowly gaining ground every year

https://youtu.be/f3NBQcAqyu4
Bezos did say they faced no competition to AWS for 7 years tho @35:43

>> No.16630460

>>16626616
Watch this video and you find out https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Mr__bmFchk

>> No.16630463

I work in a machine shop that sometimes builds the conveyors for amazon and I wish they would go out of business. I really really hate machining their gay shit

>> No.16630474

>>16626774
Many companies have been more entrenched and 'unbeatable' in their own time then passed. You don't set off as a competitor at first, sell a specific area of product, have a specific USP. Slowly grow and encroach.

>> No.16630480

>>16626805
Lmao no

>> No.16630494

>>16629191
Walmart could easily compete with Amazon in the US, they have most of the logistics in place and the money for it.
Most burgers are less than 20km away from a mart which mean you could command shit and go take it immediately after your job, that would save a shitton of money for them and at the same time you wouldn't have to deal with shitty deliveries.

>> No.16630503

>>16630494
I have been talking about for like 2 years that wal mart will eventually just convert their stores to being 90 percent warehouse with a small upfront grocery section/personal goods. its the only thing that makes sense for them they have basically a warehouse in every town in america and can easily do low cost same day shipping from them.

>> No.16630515

>>16627128
I've never seen such a low iq take.

>> No.16630519

>>16626616
theyre sponsored by CIA money and have been making zero profits for ages. no regular company can compete with that.

>> No.16630526

>>16626616
because like video games and search engines people don't want to use the 2nd best product instead of the 1st best. the concept of markets being competitive only works for things like restaurants, extreme amounts of competition doesn't exist for every single good.

>> No.16630630

>>16626616

Dont know about the faggots who constantly shill amazon being so cheap and stuff. This is only the case for some goods maybe 10% of the goods total are a bit cheaper.
But often for me it was the same price as in the store but i have to wait days to arrive.
I prefer going to the store pay 1 or 2$ extra and get it instant.

Amazon has Alibaba as competition.
And also Ebay in small percentage.

>> No.16630682

>>16628029
>I can get better priced goods pretty much anywhere else or on eBay.
With reliable next day delivery that's free (along with a shit ton of other decent stuff) if you pay for Prime? There's a reason normies don't use Taobao

>> No.16630729

>>16626616
Primary reason is they spent a lot at a time when sales tax wasn't being collected for purchases.

Being first and expanding most when the gov't is willingly letting you avoid collecting tax is a real benefit for growth. It's amazing how many people avoid tax whenever possible.

>> No.16631097

>>16626616
>Perhaps eBay would be the closest thing, but they are pretty different since it's an auction site.
At this point eBay is Amazon but also had auctions. eBay are also going towards single listing per product with cheapest winning the buy button

>> No.16631554

>>16627510
people (and companies) list new items on ebay as well as amazon. a lot of online stores have opened an ebay store as well as amazon stores to spread their market.

>> No.16632272

Amazon depends solely on Jeff Bezos. Once their leader is ill, decides to step down, or something happens then Amazon will fall.

>> No.16632760

>>16632272
You say that but Microsoft is doing great without Bill Gates, Apple is doing extremely well without Steve Jobs (as much as I hate them these days, they're the most valuable publicly traded company in the world - well, besides Saudi Aramco which just listed), Google is doing extremely well despite Larry Page and Sergey Brin not being in charge of Google for about 4 years at this point, etc.

>> No.16632775

>>16626616
>What is economy of scale for beginners?

Do you even Entropy and Monopoly tendency of Capital dynamic?

>> No.16632834

>>16630682
First of all there's no such thing as free shipping. Go to Alie Express to find the exact same products Amazon sells for $5 cheaper WITH free shipping. Alie ships faster now to. I get shit straight from Amazon's source now in a week's time cheaper and thd shipping's free. Bezos is forced to do 2-day shipping to keep the attention away from China sellers who have warehouses allover the U.S. now. Amazon is a farce. Smart shoppers are slowly beginning to realize this and are buying items from eBay and Wish now.