/biz/ - Business & Finance

[Anonymous No.16398063]

Give me one (1) reason why pharmacists cannot be automated

[Anonymous No.16398079]

>>16398063
>give me one reason why heart surgery can’t be automated

[Anonymous No.16398089]

>give me one reason why /biz/ can’t be automated
oh wait

[Anonymous No.16398100]

>>16398063
show me a robot that can read a script, open a bottle, remove a particular number of pills, transfer pills into another bottle, check with potential cross reactions, speak to the customer about their condition and how to take the pills and what not to do, judge if the customer understood what was said, etc. maybe someday, not today.

[Anonymous No.16398103]

>>16398063
humans have to explain instructions slowly to boomers for at least 20 more years.

then mass capital investment automation unless interest rates have massively corrected by then. ALL jobs will be at risk then not just pharmacists. Either way we'll be poor

[Anonymous No.16398183]

>>16398100
>read a script, open a bottle, remove a particular number of pills, transfer pills into another bottle, check with potential cross reactions
All doable

>speak to the customer about their condition and how to take the pills and what not to do, judge if the customer understood what was said
You don't have to be a pharmacist to be able to do this

[Anonymous No.16398191]

>>16398183
Assuming doctors start typing out scripts for easy OCR

[Anonymous No.16398197]

>>16398183
This.

Also why do pharmacists conflate their job duties with physicians?

[Anonymous No.16398213]

>>16398063
it can be

>>16398079
not all hearts are shaped/positioned exactly the same, nor do they need the same work. precision required varies.

>>16398100
holy shit, dude you're not going to make it.
>show me a robot that can read a scrip
wtf is programming anon? the robot doesn't need to read. it's fed instructions.
>open a bottle
not required. the pills do not need to be stored in the way that they are currently stored on these shelves. we could easily design a better layout if the goal was automating the process.
>remove a particular number of pills
easy. ffs how does the change machine count coins at the automated checkout? magic?
>transfer pills into another bottle
you really didn't think this through.... the only thing they aren't doing is speaking to customers, which is not at all necessary.

[Anonymous No.16398225]

ICU pharmacists are actually really helpful and have saved me on more than one occasion.
>t. PA-C

[Anonymous No.16398236]

>>16398063
>>16398183
This. Pharmacist is the most overpaid job on the planet bar none. A minimum wagie could learn how to do it adequately in a few hours.

[Anonymous No.16398280]

>>16398063
>Give me one (1) reason why pharmacists cannot be automated
Same reason a shit ton of other jobs aren't automated.
Lobbying and bureaucracy.

[Anonymous No.16398368]

>>16398213
>easy. ffs how does the change machi...
not easy at all anon. you have a lot to learn about deep learning, ai, and robotics. THE hardest problem is interacting with objects in the world. step one, vision... nowhere close to solved... and pills come in all shapes sizes and colors, weights, fragility, liquid medicines, the list goes on... like i said, you have a lot to learn. thefirstjobs to go will be things like accountants... the last will be braindead jobs like physical labor and trash collection wojakian losers at theme parks.

[Anonymous No.16398379]

>>16398236

[Anonymous No.16398406]

>>16398063
Please come now. i fucking hate CVS and I'd love to see fully automated 24-7 deive-thru pharma kill them.

[Anonymous No.16398421]

>>16398406
just solve computer visionfirst as a step one... shouldbe easy right?

[Anonymous No.16398460]

>>16398368
>>16398379
>>16398421
>seething pharmajew
The age of the machine is coming for your overpaid job

[Anonymous No.16398472]

>>16398063
They are. I know a pharmacist who owns autodispensers. They are a few hundred thousand dollars each.

[Anonymous No.16398509]

>>16398472
How do I invest in medical auto-dispenser

[Anonymous No.16398548]

>>16398079
Lawsuits. Docs are paid because of responsibility. No one wants to take it. Unless the robot does surgeries with 1000/1000 success rate.

Pharmacists are already automatised by bots and I live in a fucking shithole in Eastern Europe. Marginal amount of them is likely to disappear, but nothing dramatic imo. However, forget about the new jobs for grads. Chance is you'll be more likely going the way of those physics PhDs. Only a handful of 10/10 stacies if they manage to squeeze through nepotism filter. Rest of the boomers will defend their jobs until 75yo.

[Anonymous No.16398656]

>>16398460
jesus fuck anon, you are so hopelessly ignorant. that need not be your permanent state. start actually learning about what you're talking about here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLOAswsxudo

[Anonymous No.16398671]

>>16398191
Scripts are uploaded into central database. In Europe, physical scripts are vanishing, maybe 70% are electronic only. Bot can read them any day and will send patient a notification via sms or app with dosing regimen and leaflet. Doc will explain, patient signs informed consent, and that's it.

[Anonymous No.16398705]

>>16398671
yeah electronic scripts where I live also, 100%. sms dosing regimen sounds shady as fuck, zero patient privacy and too easy for patient to lose or never see the info. you need a doc to talk to you imo to make sure you aren't taking something that will kill you when you take the new meds. also, if there is any pill sorting you are SOL in terms of automation currently. you need to solve too many computer science problems and robotics problems before this becomes possible.

[Anonymous No.16398712]

>>16398100
Almost done, scrub

[Anonymous No.16398750]

>>16398712
>training vision for navigation is the same as for sorting and handling pills
jesus fuck the stupidity on display on this board, why must I keep coming back to this shithole?

[Anonymous No.16398778]

>>16398750
Bow to me

[Anonymous No.16398787]

>>16398750
Sit

[Anonymous No.16398801]

>>16398656
>vending machines need computer vision

[Anonymous No.16398808]

does anybody here even have a clue as to what a pharmacist's job duties are? do you nigger retards actually think all that a pharmacist does is light manual labor and cashiering? i hope you all own BSV

[Anonymous No.16398819]

>>16398063
community pharmacists (like going to a pharmacy and getting your Rx filled) can have a lot of their job automated from what I know, but counselling/checking drug interactions might be challenging to do safely. As for hospital pharmacists, it would be a lot harder cause they don't just fill prescriptions, it's all drug interactions/recommendations to the doctors.

[Anonymous No.16398827]

>>16398063
>>16398213
>it can be
>>16398236
>Pharmacist is the most overpaid job
You people are all retarded af. Doctors don't know shit about dosing of drugs, and too often a pharmacist is the one that just saved you from a doctor accidentally killing you. You can't write software to do everything a pharmacist can do, not until we have AI sophisticated enough to also be a doctor.

Bunch of ignorant children ITT

[Anonymous No.16398839]

>>16398750
Anon these are retarded underaged commies whom have never worked a day in their life and do not understand the difference between human intelligence and AI intelligence . These are the same fags saying robots will replace truck drivers

[Anonymous No.16398842]

>>16398236
I say when a robot is made that we call it PharmAssist. In fact, I should trademark the name right now.

[Anonymous No.16398844]

>>16398827
>10 years of expensive medical school and can't fill out a form correctly
so you're saying we should replace the doctors then?

[Anonymous No.16398852]

Key to automation is reducing human labour, every job is automatable to a certain extent. Automation will not replace a person, it will do enough of a job te replace a little of each person so some get fired.
Thinking of replacing a singular job is stupidly playing the automation game on hard mode.

[Anonymous No.16398860]

>>16398844
I'm saying doctors, like all human beings, make mistakes. Most doctors receive almost no education on dosing of drugs, new drugs, drug types -- in the same way they receive almost no training on nutrition, but are expected to be experts.

Pharmacists are the silent saviors of patients, and most people have no fucking idea.

[Anonymous No.16398863]

>>16398750
>sorting and handling pills
How do you think any of the items you buy end up in cans and containers? Does a worker fill them one by one or are there machines that do it?

[Anonymous No.16398872]

>>16398368
You are the most retarded poster on this board.

[Anonymous No.16398888]

Pharmacy automation will probably come in the form of auto dispensary staffed by fewer human pharmacists than currently needed. On staff pharmacist double checks the dispenser is working correctly and deals with the patient at the counter. This would be bad for the pharmacist job market.

[Anonymous No.16398911]

>>16398819
Retail pharmacies are the easiest. (pic related)
Hospital are not complicated either. (OPs pic)
Pharmacist are being replaced in both. YOu'll need about 1 pharmacist and 1 assistant for retail and about 3 pharmacist for a medium sized hospital. That's it. No job growth, quite the opposite.

[Anonymous No.16398913]

>>16398872
Especially because thinking in problems prevented him from making it.
>>16398712
>>16398778
I'm unironically a hard look at the mirror now

[Anonymous No.16398916]

>>16398888
Would AI be handling dosing, then? Who enters the patient information? Are the data entry people then responsible when the patient was given the wrong drug by the doctor, or at the wrong dose?

Who does the doctor ask? Google?

[Anonymous No.16398927]

robots can only count 0, 1. /thread

[Anonymous No.16398938]

>>16398863
i give up, just too stupid

[Anonymous No.16398940]

>>16398916
AI can handle the bottling while the doc has a neet sheet of people and their needs, pressing the 7 for 7 pills and nothing else needs to be done.

[Anonymous No.16398953]

>>16398860
> Most doctors receive almost no education on dosing of drugs, new drugs, drug types
Maybe in your sharia controlled zone. But everywhere else you are mandated to continual medical education. Those lazy boomers whom you're speaking about , indeed do exist, but usually in rural areas where they're virtually irreplaceable. Or they're nepotist fags.

[Anonymous No.16398955]

>>16398063
Boomers like to talk to people

[Anonymous No.16398962]

>>16398860
>10 years of college and received no education on dosing of drugs, and is still too stupid to read a fucking article or something of his own volition to fill in the gaps
so we should automate the pharmacists, doctors, and university staff?

[Anonymous No.16398974]

Pharmacists do more than serve as a gatekeeper to prescription drugs.

* They are responsible for making sure the patient is taking the right dosage and the education on how to take the drug
* They are also required to check patient records to avoid hading out a drug that has dangerous interactions with other drugs
* They are also licensed to advise on potential side effects and symptoms

Education, record checking and dosage allotment can easily be done by a machine. Also probably more accurately since you can reference databases rapidly when looking for drug interactions and drug alternatives.

Symptom observation and side effects is probably the only critical thinking skill left.

I would argue you can significantly reduce the number of pharmacists in the western world and give them RX software that can handle most of their job. Pharm Techs already handle the moving of pills between bottles.

[Anonymous No.16398980]

>>16398940
>>16398953
>>16398962
Holy shit you people are retarded. Good luck trying to get Shaqueesha the tatted up "doctor" to give you the right treatment plan of the right drug for the right disease that doesn't interact with any allergies or other drugs you may have. Even the whitest doctors fuck shit up. I'm out, y'all are morons.

[Anonymous No.16398988]

>>16398063
It's already happening.

In Ontario our government has tabled a bill that would shift some responsibilities which normally fall on doctors to pharmacists, and there's talk of expanding this to roll some pharmacist duties over to techs.

I think it's being done in anticipation of reduced labour required by the sector as automation takes hold, as duties in their domain are automated they get excess menial tasks pushed onto them to compensate.

Remember, Canada and Commiefornia are the testing ground for all this new age garbage. If tehy're doing this to us now they're thinking about doing it to you in 5-10 years. You've been warned.

https://pharmacyconnection.ca/expanded-scope-consultation-summer-2019/

[Anonymous No.16398998]

>>16398980
>don't make an argument
>flails arms around like an autist
>"i'm outta here"

[Anonymous No.16399096]

>>16398980
Ffs I'm not saying that all pharmacists will disappear tomorrow, or they're useless. I'm saying, job growth is going to be negative.
I work in private hospital and pharmacy chain, and see both their pharmacies being automated irl. Prepare for shit, don't be stupid, buff up unions or be prepared to go academia

[Anonymous No.16399113]

>>16398839
Driving as a whole will be a thing of the past eventually. Not within the next 20 years like most people believe, but in less than 100, the technology should be matured enough to accommodate the shortcomings we see with it.

[Anonymous No.16399132]

>>16398938
It's almost like you're refusing to see the other side of the argument in that you might be the one who's wrong

[Anonymous No.16399135]

>>16398368
t. CS 101 student who signed up for a free Udacity course on AI and watched two videos

[Anonymous No.16399266]

>>16398063
I have a theory that everything can actually already be automated now. the gov and corporations intentionally hold it back to keep society from collapsing. that's why the economy seems like it's a joke now days. because it basically is. but they don't have the UBI/Socialist programs in place yet to ensure a successful transition.

[Anonymous No.16399660]

>>16398421
what part of the physical part of medication dispensing is too difficult for an automated robotic process to handle?

[Anonymous No.16399679]

>>16398063
Doctors can't write.
/Thread

[Anonymous No.16400887]

>>16398063
Some pharmacies here had robot pill counters. But they were too much trouble, and were gotten rid of.

[Anonymous No.16401259]

>>16398063
it'll happen in 30 years.

[Anonymous No.16401275]

>>16398063
same reason a GP can't be automated (which means we're not so far away from automating them probs)

[Anonymous No.16401284]

>>16398079
>t.seething pharmacist
the ruse is up fren, you made your money I just hope you invested it wisely

[Anonymous No.16401294]

>>16398089
underrated

[Anonymous No.16401303]

>>16401284
i'm only 2nd year in uni

[Anonymous No.16401313]

>>16398063
>Give me one (1) reason why [insert job done by human being] cannot be automated

i-i cant
it's gg

[Anonymous No.16401316]

>>16398183
>You don't have to be a pharmacist to be able to do this

but you have to be a pharmacist in order to

>read a script, open a bottle, remove a particular number of pills, transfer pills into another bottle, check with potential cross reactions

?

pharmacy looks like a meme job, but it always looked like that, yet pharmacists continue earning a shitton of money in a lot of countries. so there may be something in it that's not so obvious to the eye.

[Anonymous No.16401319]

>>16401303
oh boy... uhm... say, at least you didn't take out student loans. right?

[Anonymous No.16401326]

>>16401319
i'm 400k in student debt

[Anonymous No.16401350]

>>16401326
you must be larping. I can't even come up with the numbers on how a pharmacist degree would cost that much.

[Anonymous No.16402039]

>>16398063

liability.

can't sue a robot

[Anonymous No.16402095]

>>16402039
So they sue the Drug Distributor/Manufacturer or the Robot Distributor/Manufacturer

Then you say "never gonna happen" but that's exactly what's happening with Remington Arms

[Anonymous No.16402210]

>>16398063
pharmacists are literally retarded. imagine regurgitating (((big pharma))) funded literature and thinking you're helping anybody. what a fucking joke

[Anonymous No.16402222]

>>16398079
>give me one reason I can't make $15 an hour working at mcdonalds
what you sound like faggot. anyone, literally anyone can count out pills and put them into a container. budtenders have a more difficult job

[Anonymous No.16402225]

>>16402222
chequed

[Anonymous No.16402251]

People ITT have neither an idea about pharmacy nor about technics. If it's that easy replacing this profession with a robot, then build it already you retarded cowards.

[Anonymous No.16402256]

>>16402095

I am. Never gonna happen

Also pharmacists do more than just hand out pills

[Anonymous No.16402268]

>>16398100
Sounds like perfect robot work to me.

[Anonymous No.16402292]

>>16398191
Everything can be encoded in a QR

[Anonymous No.16402302]

>>16402256
>I am. Never gonna happen

Supreme Court says no, if a gun manufacturer can be sued over something that wasn't perpetrated by them then people dying due to robots isn't going to be enough protection

[Anonymous No.16402336]

>>16402302

Invalid comparison.

Unless there is some major defect in the robots due to negligence, it's not going to happen. The robot manufaturers aren't going to assume liability either because it would be retarded and insanely expensive. The pharmacy itself gets hit, but like I said, you can't sue a robot. You are going to need someone to hold liable, hence the pharmacist.

[Anonymous No.16402452]

>>16402256
what else do you do? regurgitate big pharma talking points?

[Anonymous No.16402478]

>>16402452

Just pointing out the obvious since you are a retard

[Anonymous No.16402487]

>>16401350
Could be his second degree? Sounds like larp tho.

[Anonymous No.16402818]

>>16398197
>>16398236
>>16398808
>>16398827
>>16398860
>>16398974
This thread has been made before. The only thing that pharmacists can say that cant be automated is their valuable knowledge of drug facts like dosing and interactions, and they claim to be invaluable advisors to doctors about drugs. But all that just shows that they have no grasp of technology and machine learning and AI because I think all that recall knowledge can easily be automated with databases and a well taught AI. Hell, the AI would be better at tasks like these than a human. Have they not seen the lawyers and accountants being automated?

[Anonymous No.16402837]

>>16399132
it's almost like retards on this board don't know anything at all about how training image recognition systems much less vision works. widgets that goes into jars in a factory line are not comparable. if you don't understand the difference you are too stupid for this convo

[Anonymous No.16402844]

>>16399660
handling - different sizes & shapes colors reflectivity rolling vs not rolling of pills - the variety is nearly endless. good luck training a robot to handle them all - even worse is we don't know how to train a system to even recognize them all with the kind of accuracy you must have in a system that dispenses life and death

[Anonymous No.16402890]

>>16398421
>>16398368

you are so fucking retarded, jesus christ, fucking dumbass nigger, stop talking about something you dont know shit about

i work with industrial automation for a living, doing what op suggested would be very easy, in fact a lot of dumbass nigger jobs like that can be automated today, people just dont want to pay for the projects yet

[Anonymous No.16402948]

>your prescription will be ready in 45 minutes
>45 minutes to sort 30 pills

[Anonymous No.16402954]

>>16402890
What’s the best pathway to a decently paying job in automation? I’m in a well paying job that i’m genuinely nervous will be significantly impacted well before i’ve made enough to retire (doctor)

[Anonymous No.16402995]

>>16402954
electrical eng or control and automation eng would be the more common, but you can do some 2y long specific courses that will give you a good base to get the foot on the door

you wanna go from doctor to automation? What is that you do?

[Anonymous No.16403018]

>>16402818
I actually used to be a pharmacist & worked in pharmacies with automated dispensing. The machine would break down occasionally but it eliminated the main source of error in the dispensing process- the dispensers

[Anonymous No.16403044]

Would be pretty sweet to hack the bot and make off with a bunch of opiates

[Anonymous No.16403062]

>>16402039
You can sue the medical facility, but i guess one person is a smaller point of failure than a 6 figure robot.
Truly the only reason i can think of to have people is the redundancy.

[Anonymous No.16403076]

1) Give recommendations on non-prescription medication
2) Give second opinion on prescribed medication
3) Advice with your doctor

[Anonymous No.16403080]

>>16398183
>>16398063
>>16398236
Once again BIZ autism on full display. Let me clue you underage faggots in on a lesson VERY early on, the value of a task in terms of pay has almost nothing to do with the intrinsic complexity and difficulty of said task. It linearly tracks initially, but then steeply drops off, for example on average an aerospace engineer might make 2-3x more than a retail salesman. Yet a high placed executive may go to a few lunches, answer some emails, sit in a few meetings and pull in 10x what the aerospace engineer takes home. It’s about responsibility, the high placed executive may choose between two marketing strategies designed by entire TEAMS of hard working wageslaves, copy editors, billboard designers, etc etc and the decision takes the executive five minutes to evaluate. But the decision could be the difference between a hugely successful quarter and an awful one. Similarly a pharmacist might notice that a doctor prescribed two medications that can cause cardiac arrhythmia, or they might notice that the client has been prescribed MOAI anti depressants so could tell the patient to avoid cheese, or they could notice someone at the pharmacy having a grocery bag with a bottle of wine in it picking up some ambien. Etc etc. Normal people are dumb and prone to mistake and memory recall is biologically wired to be better when spoken from a person than read on a label. The doctor telling the patient not to mix with alcohol and the warning on the label may have less staying power than two or three words from the pharmacist upon the point of transaction. Because there are life or death situations mediated by pharmacists there will continue to be pharmacists for the foreseeable future.

[Anonymous No.16403086]

>>16403076
Literally google, anyone can dispense.
The need for "qualified" personnel is the liability.

[Anonymous No.16403137]

>>16403080
>its about responsibility and decision making
None of that shit has mattered for a long time

[Anonymous No.16403139]

>>16403080
lel can still be automated
>what is a database
>what is a patient history
>what is a script that can detect two drugs conflicting by checking the patient history/prescription/database of all drugs
>what is a program that can do this in a second
you literally cannot, i repeat CANNOT come up with a good enough reason of why a pharmacist's job can't be easily automated

[Anonymous No.16403190]

>>16403137
>boiling down a complex topic into a single meme chart that is pure propaganda
Proving that CEO compensation does not correlate with earnings growth does not actually refute my point idiot. It’s about what can go wrong not how much it can go right, no company would let a janitor be the CEO and most pharmacies won’t let a bot dispense pills. At that point you may as well have pill vending machines in hospitals that scan barcodes.

[Anonymous No.16403220]

>>16403190
>most companies wouldnt let a janitor be ceo
You could flip a coin on every decision and have the same performance as the average ceo

[Anonymous No.16403237]

>>16402995
I work in critical care.
Basically I’m looking around at jobs in more future-proof areas which I can study towards while I’m still putting money away working as a doctor.

Automation interests me because I might have some useful domain-specific knowledge when it comes to automating processes in hospitals

[Anonymous No.16403245]

>>16403220
Thats a retard view of how big businesses function

[Anonymous No.16403275]

>>16403220
Yes that’s why they should be paid the same

[Anonymous No.16403282]

>>16403245
>he thinks big business has to perform in 2019
No u

[Anonymous No.16404004]

>>16398079
It can be. Long before then it'll be semi-automated though. A pharmacist's job is far easier to automate.

[Anonymous No.16404074]

Pharmacies already have automated pill dispensers. You're always gonna have pharmacists for the same reason we still have pilots decades into flight being automated. It's a safety precaution and with medicine especially, mistakes can be fatal. Often doctors prescribe something to a patient that will interact adversely or whatnot. If anything I see pharm tech's being obsolete

[Anonymous No.16404123]

>>16398953
>But everywhere else you are mandated to continual medical education
You're too retarded to realize how vast medicine is. Why do you think we specialize in the first place?

[Anonymous No.16404351]

>>16398827
This, people here think all a pharmacist does is count pills like a monkey, lol

[Anonymous No.16404361]

>>16402818
Yeah ok. We'll see how good the AI is in 25 years.