Why did Keynesianism win against Austrian economics?

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Anonymous Fri Nov 22 22:58:50 2019 No.16349430 [Reply] [Original]

Why did Keynesianism win against Austrian economics?

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 22 22:59:39 2019 No.16349436 Because it allowed the powerful an excuse to entrench their power and seek rents under the guise of helping the economic and pursuing progressive policies

Anonymous Fri Nov 22 23:02:55 2019 No.16349456

Keynesianism sometimes works and sometimes fails in the actionable policy objectives that it concocts. It hits the mark often enough to stay on the mix. Austrian economics are a skein of obvious nonsense that even most laypersons can see through before even the first go around.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 22 23:08:40 2019 No.16349494 File: 37 KB, 473x512, 7E26C6DB-7704-4678-8AC7-697FC83E4327.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>16349456

Anonymous Fri Nov 22 23:10:58 2019 No.16349507
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>>16349456
I'm not an economist, but if Austrian economics is obviously false then why did we see economists who were Austrians? I've never seen a single economist say that tariffs were a good thing (outside of the argument that they're sometimes good for developing economies), so we know that at least everyone can agree that those suck, but I have seen Austrian economists.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 22 23:11:47 2019 No.16349515 File: 48 KB, 335x567, 94812371273.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>16349430 It never did. The state cant go out of business so theres no incentive to be efficient.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 22 23:19:37 2019 No.16349555 >>16349430 Because Keynesianism allows politicians to push artificial prosperity and win elections as consequence

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 22 23:20:30 2019 No.16349563 >>16349430 >Why did Keynesianism win against Austrian economics? zoom out

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 22 23:20:43 2019 No.16349564 >>16349555 ALSO TRIPS OF TRUTH @.@

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 22 23:22:24 2019 No.16349582 File: 1.90 MB, 498x280, tenor.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>16349563 >zoom out

Anonymous Fri Nov 22 23:29:07 2019 No.16349633
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See, here's my fundamental confusion. Keynesian economics is the predominant theory today, it's taught in basically ever university and the vast majority of economists are Keynesian. I am admittedly biased, I want Austrian economics to be true because I am highly distrustful of politicians and government, but it is more important than anything that I find the truth and be fair and honest with myself so I can find the actual facts of which economic theory is true and more based on reality. Now from what I know, apparently Keynesian economics has far more models to work with than Austrian economics, and additionally Keynesian economics advocates for far more state intervention in the economy. But this presents a dilemma, because while it's possible that Keynesianism is the predominant theory because it is correct, it is also possible that it is the predominant theory because economists need Keynesianism to justify their jobs (nobody needs an legion of economists telling you to not interfere with the economy after all). So it's a difficult quandary for me to get over, and admittedly one that I am far too undereducated to properly understand.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 22 23:31:46 2019 No.16349657 >>16349430 Liberals

Anonymous Fri Nov 22 23:32:28 2019 No.16349661

>>16349633
Keynesianism is big government-friendly economic policy and the Austrian school isn't, so obviously Keynesianism will be pushed by governments despite it's inferiority. the Austrian school will see widespread use after the era of central control schemes wane in popularity, well after our lifetimes

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 22 23:39:21 2019 No.16349706 When and in what countries was Austrianism even tried?

Anonymous Fri Nov 22 23:41:02 2019 No.16349713
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>>16349456
Name a single thing that Austrian economics advocates that isn't both morally correct and economically correct. I don't give a shit about the praxaelogy mumbo jumo or austistic arguing about mundane details.
Literally every recommendation given by Austrians turns out to be correct in spite of some of the goofy shit.
If our country went full Austrian, it would be a significantly better place. End of story. Fuck, even Keynes would be spinning in his grave if he saw the crazy hyper-Keynesian shit going on right now.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 22 23:42:52 2019 No.16349720 File: 34 KB, 645x729, 1793878.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] austrianists are the schizo boomer version of ancapists

Anonymous Fri Nov 22 23:43:31 2019 No.16349725
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>>16349706
Austrianism is just free market. Everyone knows that a freer a countries market is, the more prosperous it is relative to itself. Obviously, if you implement a free market in The Congo, it isn't going to magically become more prosperous than Canada, but it will become more prosperous over time.
Many of the ills of "Capitalism" are caused by crazy shit like monetary policy and bailouts which are not capitalism.
Posting some softies

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 22 23:45:03 2019 No.16349729 >>16349582 as in the battle is not over keynesianism is not even a century old. it will not prevail.

Anonymous Fri Nov 22 23:46:14 2019 No.16349737
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>>16349706
With the exception of some tariffs, Calvin Coolidge's presidency was fairly economically Austrian-esque. But that's not exactly helpful since people argue about Coolidge and FDR all the time. Coolidge presided over a prosperous and economically industrious time in history...right before the Great Depression, which he is often blamed for. But then FDR came along with his Keynesian-esque policies and presided over the Depression era America, but said Depression continued until America entered the war.

So as a result you have this sort of weird argument where everyone can see the same thing but they argue over the causes. Austrians disagree that Coolidge caused the Depression, in fact many of them might say that the Depression was inevitable but was made far worse and prolonged by FDR's policies. Keynesians usually blame Coolidge for the Depression and often say that the Depression would've been far worse than it already was if FDR hadn't greatly increased government spending and control over the economy.

Anonymous Fri Nov 22 23:49:09 2019 No.16349749
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>>16349725
Right, my point being is that we’ve never actually tried austrianism because we’ve never actually tried it. Which is ironic, because we’ve actually tried socialism many times but failed.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 22 23:50:17 2019 No.16349753 Because Austrian was worse. Keynes wasn't perfect, and his theories were incomplete (Austrian school likes to screech this is proof he was wrong). Post-Keynesianism is the future.

Anonymous Fri Nov 22 23:51:11 2019 No.16349760
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>>16349725
This. Complete free unregulated market is the best. Those hard working jewish financiers must be left unregulated they are smart and know how to handle the economy. Also the evil government should stop regulating the border and let those millions foreign workers come in the free market. And the evil central bank should stop pushing down interest rates, sharklo- I mean jewish banks should be allowed to charge as huge interest rates they want

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 22 23:52:11 2019 No.16349764 >>16349760 what about hans herman hoppe then?

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 22 23:53:00 2019 No.16349769 >>16349713 Use Austrian economics to explain Germany's economic miracle recovery before WW2.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 22 23:54:22 2019 No.16349775 File: 260 KB, 850x1199, __j_p_morgan_original_drawn_by_tansuke__sample-0cfd0f56fb1c64c1e72dfe8eebdfea39.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>16349769 Wait, hold up, were Hitler's economic policies Keynesian?

Anonymous Fri Nov 22 23:55:49 2019 No.16349784

>>16349760
>jewish financiers must be left unregulated

jews would hate this, they use loopholes and regulations created by governments they control via lobbying to foster an uneven playing field for themselves. in a free market, jews finally have to compete without cheat codes. also, you can point to many more socialist/communist jewish ideologues than libertarian ones

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 22 23:56:04 2019 No.16349786 >>16349769 >economic miracle recovery it wasn't though. it was just a debt fueled pump and dump, gearing the economy towards war. it was unsustainable and germany had to go to war, else their economy would've totally collapsed.

Anonymous Fri Nov 22 23:57:09 2019 No.16349799

>>16349775
They weren't Hitler's policies, but rather a man named Schacht, who opposed NSDAP policies and persuaded mustache man to put him in charge. Read up on him, he is universally referred to as a financial wizard. He was far ahead of his time.

Soviets wanted him executed in Nuremburg because he was solely responsible to the war machine's growth, and they weren't wrong.

Anonymous Fri Nov 22 23:59:17 2019 No.16349813

>>16349786
>it wasn't though
It absolutely was. Germans were jobless and starving beforehand.

You are right about unsustainability, but only because Hitler wanted even more rearmanent than their economy could sustain, this is when Schacht resigned in 1937.

Anonymous Sat Nov 23 00:00:37 2019 No.16349818

>>16349430
Because keynsian shills tell the politicians what they want to hear.

Hey politician all you need to do is get more power , control more stuff and micromanage more.
Meanwhile austrians tell politicians get the fuck out and remove retarded regulations.

Obviously politicians choose the big state that allows them to steal and give their friend gov jobs.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 00:00:40 2019 No.16349819 >>16349713 That faggot wanted Bancor, a unit of account that would be used by a single world Bank to et an individual country interest rates to control current accounts. Keynes would argue we were not totalitarian enough.

Anonymous Sat Nov 23 00:00:41 2019 No.16349820
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>>16349760
Sounds good to me. Privatize everyone. If you don't like Mexicans, don't let them on your property. Hint, you also don't have to hire them without nonsense governmental nondiscrimination laws.

>>16349769
It's pretty easy to recover after having your country destroyed bro. Pretty much everything gets better after a war.
Just ending a war makes your economy instantly better.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 00:03:08 2019 No.16349829 >>16349820 You should read a history book sometime.

Anonymous Sat Nov 23 00:05:07 2019 No.16349839
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>>16349784
>they use loopholes and regulations created by governments they control via lobbying to foster an uneven playing field for themselves. in a free market, jews finally have to compete without cheat codes

You disproved your own point. Non-Jews can try to lobby and control the government too, if Jews can lobby and control the government better than everyone that means they won the competition

Anonymous Sat Nov 23 00:07:11 2019 No.16349845

>>16349507

Your entire post is looking at this the wrong way.

Economics is a very immature science. It cannot predict many phenomena that we would consider to be fairly basic within its purview, much less control those phenomena. Different "schools" like Keynesian and Austrian, are basically tool boxes. Keynesian tools work sometimes, can explain why they work (sort of), and seem to be able to do some jobs. The tools in the bag marked "Austrian" are quite often wrong, and demonstrably so in many places.

>>16349713

>morally and economically correct

Science isn't here to tell you what is moral or immoral. It's purview is to explain, predict, and control phenomena. You are hooked on ideological reasoning the way that the lotus eater is hooked on opium.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 00:10:00 2019 No.16349855 >>16349839 Convincing a select few necessary people in the government to do your bidding isnt winning the "competition" of the market us adults are talking about, big brain

Anonymous Sat Nov 23 00:10:28 2019 No.16349858
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So, as I mentioned earlier, the Keynesians have a bunch of models for predicting economic behaviors. How accurate are these models, and are they the reason that Keynesianism is the predominant theory? More importantly, if we've created accurate models to determine economic behaviors and plan around it, then how the hell is economics even a subject of debate at this point? If I can objectively tell someone that the economy is going to go into a recession in 3.4 years and that we should increase government spending 36.4% to alleviate it, then how on God's green Earth is political policy regarding the economy not an open-and-shut case?

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 00:11:07 2019 No.16349862 File: 49 KB, 645x773, 1571574448555.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>16349839 damn bro, you totally got me. guess the only solution is to just genocide them all or something, right?

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 00:14:25 2019 No.16349878 >>16349855 politics is a competition too and you are losing >>16349862 its far more likely you will get genocided by them first

Anonymous Sat Nov 23 00:14:56 2019 No.16349883
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Keynesianism in theory is when you engage in deficit spending at the end of the business cycle to create government jobs to artificially aggregate demand which is supposed to increase jobs in the private sector. Once the economy bounces back you pay off the debt. What happens in actuality is employers don't expand their workforce because they view the demand for products and services as temporary and to them its easier to just pay their workers overtime. The 2 biggest examples of keynsianism is the new deal and Hitlers rebuilding of Germany between 33 and 36.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 00:16:15 2019 No.16349888 >>16349737 Calvin Coolidge was nothing close to austrian-sequel. He presides over a government with centrally controlled interest rates (the fed)

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 00:16:30 2019 No.16349890 >>16349430 jews

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 00:17:18 2019 No.16349893 >>16349749 Wrong, we have. Andrew Jackson’s president until Lincoln’s was a purely austrian government. That was the pinnacle of American prosperity and life quality, all went downhill from there

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 00:17:32 2019 No.16349895 >>16349633 >Keynesian economics is the predominant theory today Wrong. MMT is the prevailing ideology.

Anonymous Sat Nov 23 00:17:36 2019 No.16349896
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>>16349883
Nearly everyone I've talked to about the subject has agreed that Hitler's war economy was economically unsustainable and was going to collapse if they didn't go to war soon, but I've rarely if ever heard this same argument used for Keynesianism (aside from Austrians, whom most people say are crackpots).

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 00:18:54 2019 No.16349900 >>16349430 more like Autism economics lmao

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 00:20:06 2019 No.16349906 >>16349896 Hitler's economy was unsustainable but Schacht's economy (pre 1937) was not. It's why he specifically said 33 to 36.

Anonymous Sat Nov 23 00:21:08 2019 No.16349910

>>16349858

Most models are not particularly accurate in terms of prediction. The science is still trying to explain most phenomena. It is the subject of debate because rhetoricians realize that they can borrow the credibility of whichever group of scientists happen to agree with them and use them to advocate for policy that they think is in their own interests. It's an immature science that's basically being pimped out by every industry shill and ideologue in the game.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 00:21:36 2019 No.16349913 >>16349555 You basically just described America in present day kek

Anonymous Sat Nov 23 00:24:55 2019 No.16349929

>>16349555

Actually Keynesianism is why the Chairman of the Fed is unelected because he foresaw that very risk and sought to prevent it, and so the Chariman of the Fed is not elected and not subject to things like Congressional oversight.

Everything you think is backwards. The Tea Party was the Keynesian nightmare that they convinced you that the status quo was. That was why they wanted "oversight" of the Fed.

Anonymous Sat Nov 23 00:27:12 2019 No.16349937

>>16349839
No they can't, the common denominator is moloch worshipping through multiple generations, they aren't just going to let anyone walk in and buy the government.
People do not realize that there are quite a few bloodlines who have been at this for centuries.

Anonymous Sat Nov 23 00:28:12 2019 No.16349942
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>>16349896

Hitler alleviated unemployment within 9 months of taking office because 1. He had complete political control of Germany and 2. created massive public works campaigns which drove up huge deficits. This lasted 2 years. Once 1936 came around unemployment in Germany rose to the double digits. In 36 Hitler also visited Mussolini where the Italian facist gave hitler a military display of italy's Navy and armored division. This prompted hitler to start rebuilding German armaments and then another 2 years later ww2 started. It's a common misconception that Hitler rebuilt the German economy through rearmament.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 00:29:40 2019 No.16349949 >>16349878 You mean the shabbos goys they trick into doing their work? Jews literally cannot do anything on their own.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 00:31:51 2019 No.16349958 >>16349949 >jews tricked me into doing whatever they want >jews can't do anything choose one, goy

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 00:32:07 2019 No.16349964 >>16349942 >Once 1936 came around unemployment in Germany rose to the double digits. Citation needed.

Anonymous Sat Nov 23 00:35:08 2019 No.16349979
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>>16349958
I don't have to explain anything.
It's all generational subversion.
At the end of the day, everything you all are doing is leading to the demise of the jewish people.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 00:36:56 2019 No.16349984 >>16349979 you are a cattle angry at your master, but you can't do anything about it so you are just left with anger

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 00:37:44 2019 No.16349990 >>16349964 Opps I may be wrong buy i believe unemployment started to go up during 1936

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 00:37:50 2019 No.16349991 File: 2.12 MB, 256x192, 1573275617705.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>16349984 I do plenty every day to ensure I never have to comeback here. You all will never be my master.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 00:39:43 2019 No.16350001 File: 14 KB, 451x308, Jew-faced-rat.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>16349984 Is that how you jews feel about God? Angry at your master?

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 00:40:44 2019 No.16350006 File: 74 KB, 638x359, nazi-germany-stimulating-economic-recovery-9-638.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>16349990 Everywhere I look points to unemployment continuously decreasing since 1933.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 00:41:07 2019 No.16350008 >>16350001 Your God is jewish too

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 00:42:16 2019 No.16350016 File: 172 KB, 1440x907, nuremburg.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Nazi punks fuck off.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 00:42:32 2019 No.16350017 File: 2.46 MB, 532x461, 1564252927835.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>16350008 Im sorry but I do not worship your same strange gods.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 00:43:37 2019 No.16350027 File: 379 KB, 500x374, 1573841209025.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>16350016 Lmfao they executed/imprisoned what? Like less than 300 nazi's? How many jews did we kill again?

Anonymous Sat Nov 23 00:44:25 2019 No.16350031

>>16349786
this is incorrect, had Nazi Germany not enacted rearmament they were on course to possess the dominant economy of Europe by the end of the 40s. rearmament and military expansion through conquest were the unsustainable efforts, to the effect that the invasion of the Soviet Union would not have been possible without the fuel and raw materials provided beforehand by German-Soviet trade agreements

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 00:46:27 2019 No.16350046 >>16350027 >How many jews did we kill again? 0 lmao. holohoax was fake

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 00:47:47 2019 No.16350052 File: 10 KB, 152x225, 1574435997543.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>16350046 So you jews admit that you know it was all a hoax?!

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 00:48:50 2019 No.16350057 >>16350052 so you admit you can't defeat jews?

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 00:50:07 2019 No.16350068 >>16350027 >we Do you even know who's pawn you are? Or is that a question that you're willing to march to your death to while having no answers?

Anonymous Sat Nov 23 00:51:06 2019 No.16350073
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>>16350057
God is saving his favorite snack for very last.
We had you by the balls in ww2, you all had to cry to like 3 separate world super powers to bail you all out and form your illegitimate country.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 00:52:11 2019 No.16350078 File: 108 KB, 576x1024, 1573074745399m.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>16350068 It's like you're talking to a mirror.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 00:56:59 2019 No.16350105 >>16350078 Your prideful ignorance would have once been a shock but is now a source of humor to me. Try to be a light-hearted about it when your masters sacrifice you for an agenda that you do not fully understand.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 00:56:59 2019 No.16350107 >>16350073 >We had you by the balls in ww2 not even close lmao Jews have all your countries by the balls

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 00:58:17 2019 No.16350116 >>16350107 This is a "no, u" tier answer.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 00:59:54 2019 No.16350126 >>16350116 except for Jews its actually the truth. Jews own you, and you are the angry cattle seething about it

Anonymous Sat Nov 23 01:00:04 2019 No.16350127
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>>16350105
Nigger, what exactly are you going to make me do? Literally, how the fuck you going to make me fight your silly little wars?
The jews are dog meat in the future and there's nothing you can do to stop it.

Anonymous Sat Nov 23 01:02:02 2019 No.16350138
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>>16350126
If it was true, the (((media))) wouldn't have to try so hard to pump out all of their ridiculous propaganda, approval/sympathy for jewish people is reaching historical lows, people are catching on to your shit and it's just a matter of time.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 01:02:20 2019 No.16350140 >>16350127 Wait. Do you think I'm your master?

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 01:03:41 2019 No.16350148 File: 58 KB, 679x769, 1561328364812.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>16350140 Do you think?

Anonymous Sat Nov 23 01:06:03 2019 No.16350161

>>16350138
Its good that the cattle have such fantasies to stay complacent lmao. One day the chosen cattle messiah will appear and save the poor goyim from the evil jews amirite? any day now goy!

Now go post some edgy jew memes on /pol/ and larp about that epic future while Jews run your country lmao

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 01:09:12 2019 No.16350189 File: 4 KB, 184x184, 1561336195600.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>16350161 Yes, they have to do a few more things to make it all official. You are the ones with illusions of grandeur. You all will never conquer the world how you want to.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 01:09:44 2019 No.16350192 >>16350148 I think that you think that wordplay equates to intelligence. I think that you imagine that you are quite clever. I think that you were born, have lived, and will die under a veil of ignorance that will never become apparent to you.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 01:12:40 2019 No.16350209 >>16350189 Are you angry goy? Why don't you go shoot a synagogue? That will show them. Change begins with you goy

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 01:14:02 2019 No.16350215 >>16350209 They already have all shot themselves in the foot by ever walking through the doors of a synagogue.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 01:14:26 2019 No.16350221 >>16350161 whites actually have more power overall

Anonymous Sat Nov 23 01:15:35 2019 No.16350228
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>>16350192
Lmao, you're still here wasting your braincells talking back to me.
Why are jews always acting like such prideful little kids? Do you all just never grow up?

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 01:16:28 2019 No.16350232 >>16350221 because Zionist whites are allowed to have power

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 01:20:07 2019 No.16350252 >>16350232 Whites allied with Jews because it benefits whites financially. Youre being used in case you need it spelled out

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 01:21:28 2019 No.16350257 File: 413 KB, 1560x2080, 01b75db0daa50f11184fb716253ab812-imagejpeg.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>16349582 Marx says: > zoom out https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wB-vf5X9VfU&feature=youtu.be

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 01:23:20 2019 No.16350268 >>16350252 whatever helps you goy sleep at night

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 01:25:25 2019 No.16350282 File: 309 KB, 720x1280, Screenshot_20191028-154235_Chrome.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>16350268 Why do all jews look like ugly demons?

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 01:26:23 2019 No.16350286 File: 96 KB, 768x500, boring graph.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>16350257 Youtube censored my video have a boring graph instead

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 01:26:27 2019 No.16350287 File: 7 KB, 121x121, 20191028_154303.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>16350268 WHY?

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 01:26:52 2019 No.16350288 >>16350282 to scare the dumb goyim

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 01:28:26 2019 No.16350296 File: 130 KB, 528x747, 20191103_201407.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>16350288 Well it fucking works, you all are ugly as fuck.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 01:30:10 2019 No.16350305 >>16350296 its for the cattle to be angry at his master

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 01:30:51 2019 No.16350306 File: 41 KB, 692x551, 11947671_10153632242158092_4146093686814588122_n.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >Keynesian economics won against Austrian economics The absolute state of American education.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 01:31:29 2019 No.16350307 >another thread derailed by muh jews

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 01:31:46 2019 No.16350311 File: 8 KB, 232x162, 1573425758535.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>16350305 This the only rhetoric you can muster up? Why do jews love niggers so damn much?

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 01:34:21 2019 No.16350322 File: 320 KB, 946x1178, 163543.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>16350311 whites and niggers have the same mentality. both cattle of the jewish masters

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 01:36:29 2019 No.16350335 File: 2.01 MB, 400x400, 1570714554371.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>16350322 One is not like the other.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 01:36:55 2019 No.16350338 >>16350306 Use Austrian economics to explain Germany's miracle economic recovery in the 30s before WW2.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 01:37:46 2019 No.16350340 >>16350335 I'm kind of glad you guys are replacing whites with niggers, whites would never eat you alive, niggers definitely will in the future.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 01:38:05 2019 No.16350341 >>16350335 I guess you can be proud for being marginally better than niggers. For jews you are both the same though lmao

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 01:39:23 2019 No.16350347 File: 592 KB, 624x1232, 1560618782347.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>16350341 Blacks are going to fry you all up like chicken.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 01:41:13 2019 No.16350359 this thread is dumb >>16350257 I want to tenderly but roughly fuck alunya and give her multiple bod-shaking orgasms

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 01:41:37 2019 No.16350361 >>16350347 If you couldn't do it what makes you think niggers will? lmao

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 01:41:55 2019 No.16350363 >>16350338 Did Germany win? No. Hence we live under Jewish MMT. That's why it's so funny to see the Amerifats lose their mind when you mention Keynes.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 01:42:05 2019 No.16350365 >>16350359 Wow such a great contribution to the thread!!

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 01:43:13 2019 No.16350370 File: 598 KB, 480x360, 1571419862506.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>16350361 What makes you think they won't? You are literally retarded for having whites and niggers in the same bracket. The Chinese will eat you all too.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 01:43:58 2019 No.16350373 >>16350365 thanks, I try

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 01:45:52 2019 No.16350380 >>16350363 Germany would have been fine if Hitler hadn’t stupidly abandoned the economic policies that worked through the mid 30s

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 01:45:59 2019 No.16350381 >>16350363 Germany won the race towards economic recovery from the Great Depression, and for the purposes of this discussion, is all that matters. Here's a spoiler though: MEFO bills were MMT.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 01:46:13 2019 No.16350382 >>16350370 yes chinks might be harder to control because they are smarter than whites. but I don't worry we will eventually achieve it, with the help of our trusted white and nigger pawns of course

Anonymous Sat Nov 23 01:48:42 2019 No.16350389

I'm pretty sure that modern economics takes pieces of both theories to create a unified modern theory. The father of Austrian economics was also one of the first people to think about marginal utility. Modern economics definitely DOES NOT ignore marginal utility. If we were to take everything that Austrian economics says as doctrine we'd have 100% reserve requirements at every bank, good luck getting a loan bro.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 01:49:14 2019 No.16350391 File: 306 KB, 220x220, 1571218000783.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>16350382 They already see your bullshit from a mile away and are sharpening their knives every time you all turn your backs.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 01:50:40 2019 No.16350402 >>16350391 yeah they will kick and scream just like whites did, but eventually will take the jewish D

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 01:52:04 2019 No.16350409 File: 2.13 MB, 1056x2880, 1574299900350.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>16350402 You're insane if you think they already don't have a jew removal contingency plan 50 years ago.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 01:53:24 2019 No.16350413 >>16350228 kys wishful thinking jew

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 01:53:33 2019 No.16350414 >>16350409 I am glad that whites are so defeated that they think chinks are gonna save them lmao

Anonymous Sat Nov 23 01:53:51 2019 No.16350415

>>16350409
The reason I posted this, is because yes, you have helped them become a world super power through jewish satanic subversion, soon they will reach critical mass, and will remove you all like the tumor you all are.
You will never be able to kill chinese nationalism.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 01:54:54 2019 No.16350421 File: 174 KB, 720x700, 1572655825152.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>16350414 I'm not white.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 01:56:33 2019 No.16350433 >>16350421 well whatever you are its the same for us. you are all cattle

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 01:57:05 2019 No.16350434 File: 46 KB, 500x492, 1479420184985.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] For some reason I don't think this thread is about economics anymore

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 01:57:39 2019 No.16350438 File: 90 KB, 628x767, 1561498443913.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>16350433 And you are all dead, you just don't know it yet.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 01:58:05 2019 No.16350442 >>16350438 whatever helps you sleep at night goy

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 01:58:34 2019 No.16350445 >>16350433 >jewish projection intensifies

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 01:59:45 2019 No.16350452 >>16350445 I am not jew, just repeating their thoughts for a price

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 02:01:09 2019 No.16350455 >>16350452 you do it with such skill like those are your own thoughts. die

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 02:03:23 2019 No.16350465 >>16350455 they have articulated these thoughts specifically for goyim consumption

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 02:06:48 2019 No.16350485 >>16350465 >...fellow goy... fuck off yid

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 02:18:29 2019 No.16350541 >>16350359 I wanna dump my load in her desu

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 02:21:44 2019 No.16350553 Why do the very few still existent socialist and communist countries decide to use Austrian economics to successfully plan their economies?

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 02:26:49 2019 No.16350582 File: 350 KB, 549x659, DD19BC95-12CE-4370-8A50-8009BB25D50B.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>16349436 This guy fucks. Fpbp, but add some (((echoes))) next time

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 02:34:38 2019 No.16350618 >>16349895 The wikipedia literally calls MMT heterodox in the first sentence.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 02:36:37 2019 No.16350626 >>16350553 based retard

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 02:52:53 2019 No.16350686 When the dollar pops will MMT'ers and Keynsians finally admit defeat?

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 02:58:17 2019 No.16350709 >>16350686 1930's Germany miracle economic recovery

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 03:01:12 2019 No.16350721 >>16349430 because keynesianism is the uiltimate form of what the nation state does to its economy

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 03:02:15 2019 No.16350726 >>16350686 when the dominance of the nation state collapses

Anonymous Sat Nov 23 03:03:37 2019 No.16350732

>>16349819
>That faggot wanted Bancor, a unit of account that would be used by a single world Bank to et an individual country interest rates to control current accounts.
He proposed it, and his proposal was rejected. Instead they chose a system of managed exchange rates which was just as bad, and it was decades before a free market system replaced it.

The term "Keynesian economics" doesn't mean agreeing with Keynes on everything, nor emulating his mistakes. It means acknowledging the business cycle, and setting government policy to dampen and exploit it with countercyclical spending. And that's good policy.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 03:04:30 2019 No.16350737 >>16350686 keynesianism and mmt will have some presence along as long as governments exist, their entire existence needs and supports government

Anonymous Sat Nov 23 03:08:25 2019 No.16350758

>>16349895
MMT probably should be the prevailing theory today, as it identifies the false assumptions of its rivals and logically explains why those assumptions are false. Unfortunately it's not, as it's misunderstood by most economists as well as the general public.

MMT does agree with Keynesianism on most issues.

Anonymous Sat Nov 23 03:14:13 2019 No.16350774

>>16349713
>Name a single thing that Austrian economics advocates that isn't both morally correct and economically correct.
Favouring the interests of the already wealthy over those of everyone else.
Now I'll flip the question: Name a single thing that Austrian economics advocates that is both morally correct and economically correct?

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 03:18:27 2019 No.16350792 >>16349436 The reverse is the case: when going into a downturn, the rich gain more power over the poor, because although everybody loses, the poor lose more. Keynesianism alleviates the downturn; Austrian economics exacerbates it.

Anonymous Sat Nov 23 03:24:48 2019 No.16350824

>>16349430
Keynesianism explains the cause of the problem and provides a way to fix it; Austrian economics effectively blames failure on previous success, and when the economy's in bad shape, all it tells us is to suck it up because it will be good for the economy in the long run.

But Keynesianism lost its dominance in the 1970s because Keynes had failed to predict the effects of a supply shock, let alone what to do about it. After that governments tried to manage economic cycles with monetary policy alone, and often ignored what could be done with fiscal policy.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 03:25:16 2019 No.16350826 >>16350792 You're overgeneralizing, rich people can just as easily become ruined and bankrupt in a downturn. Only the rich who hold their net worth in cash become the masters in a deflationary depression.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 03:29:34 2019 No.16350846 File: 161 KB, 819x1024, F1A25387-5B50-4CCD-B1A0-3A41F6D643B4.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] This thread is shit and full of Jews. >(((Keynesian economics))) >Austrian economics Gee, which one should I choose?

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 03:32:53 2019 No.16350858 >>16350846 Use Austrian economics to explain Germany's miracle economic recovery in the 30s before WW2.

Anonymous Sat Nov 23 04:19:06 2019 No.16351058
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>>16350858
>tell goy citizenzs to go build some shit
>get in debt to pay their salaries
>few years pass
>time to pay denbt
>shit you built was completely useless
>doesn't provide any value
>as usual for centrally planned socialist economies
>we can go bankrupt or continue the charade
>???
>WE MUST SECURE THE LANDS FOR OUR ARYAN PEOPLE AND GET RID OF THE JEWISH MENACE
>go to war with entire world and get rekt
>somehow this is a miracle now
uhh okay?

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 04:22:10 2019 No.16351072 >>16351058 >be a Jew >you're a Jew

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 04:31:34 2019 No.16351119 >>16351058 >we can go bankrupt or continue the charade You forgot the part where the German government borrowed money from itself.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 04:32:02 2019 No.16351123 >>16351072 >jewjewjew your brain on /pol/ lads, take note

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 04:34:07 2019 No.16351139 >>16351119 >be poor as fuck >hmm hey let's borrow money from ourselves >but we have no money > no biggie lads, we'll just print it >inflation ensues >go to war >get shrekt yikes

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 04:41:23 2019 No.16351184 File: 46 KB, 595x388, jaren-dertig.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>16351139 >>inflation ensues okay boomer

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 04:43:15 2019 No.16351194 >>16351184 >homemade excel chart is his source I wasn't expecting anything more from a poltard.

Anonymous Sat Nov 23 04:52:58 2019 No.16351243

>>16349430
TL;DR but undoubtedly ITT:

Two actual economists attempt to write an educated reply. One objectivist with no economics background self-taught on Austrian school via YouTube videos chimes in with a half-researched post that trails into unsubstantiated ranting. A bunch of people chime in supporting the objectivist view with lazy graphs that are the second or third response to a Google search of the general topic and words like "artificial" "intervention" "supply" "cap" and "libertarian."

At least one hard science fag comes in to remind everyone that economics is a social science and subject to Elster's missing mechanism and hundreds of billions of potential interventions on each explanans.

Anonymous Sat Nov 23 04:53:55 2019 No.16351250
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>>16351194
You're welcome to post contradictory data anytime.

previous source: https://rwer.wordpress.com/2012/06/29/macro-economic-policy-and-votes-in-the-thirties-germany-and-the-netherlands-during-the-great-depression/
current source: https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/05/10-lessons-from-1930s-germany-for-democracies-today/

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 04:55:17 2019 No.16351255 Amazing amount of glowniggers, retards and naive fanatics in here.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 05:04:06 2019 No.16351292 >>16350027 >we the absolutely fucking pathetic state of the white race today, what happened to you guys? goddamn even indians today are making you look weak.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 05:04:30 2019 No.16351294 File: 27 KB, 970x603, BSPDRWeltkriseEngl.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>16351194 This one's from wikipedia. Preisindex = price index

Anonymous Sat Nov 23 05:14:50 2019 No.16351355

because austrian economics was a political propaganda project against the soviet union, not real economics

everyone who thinks austrian econ is true is an idiot. Keynesianism, however, isn't a perfect system because it increases inflation, but neoclassical economics didn't actually solve that problem because the increased financialisation of capital resulted in inflation via increased lending by private banks. That said, the inflation caused by keynesian programs is demand-pull, not supply-push, so not the brainlet understanding of inflation that is common on this board. Protip, "printing money" is not how inflation happens. It's the central bank which devalues the currency to introduce a greater quantity, not the fucking mint printing actual physical notes. When a government borrows from the central bank they don't print more physical bills to pay people

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 05:20:46 2019 No.16351390 >>16351355 wow you're so smart anon tell me more

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 05:37:41 2019 No.16351466 >>16349430 Because it allows governments to set monetary and fiscal policy

Anonymous Sat Nov 23 05:39:55 2019 No.16351482

today is the day /pol/ invaded /biz/. today is a dark day. first the crypto shills and now poltards. damn it i hate. why do you faggots have to push your natsoc shit everywhere? you talk complete bullshit about economics. you don't know anything about that topic or only some youtube wikipedia shit tier but it seems to make sense for yourselves cause this neofascistic circle jerk applaudes every time you talk shit.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 05:41:32 2019 No.16351491 >>16351482 Would you like to share your account of 1930s Germany?

Anonymous Sat Nov 23 05:50:17 2019 No.16351529
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>>16351355
There were Austrian economics before there was Soviet Union.

>>16350286
Post it on /wsg/

>>16349633
>Keynesian economics is the predominant theory today
It isn't. There are some Keynesian ideas that remain and were incorporated and some teachers who are still hardcore Keynesian but since the 70-80's it lost a lot of support.

>>16351294
I am not informed about the particularities of this case but it looks like it was in part an actual organic recovery and growth after the depression but with higher growth than it would have otherwise as a result of fractional reserve banking, lower inflation rates or any other kind of cheap money scheme, term transformation or any combination of those. Massive infrastructure projects are usually a good indication of this. It's like eating all the food in the fridge, the indicators of food ingested will rise sharply until you suddenly realise there's nothing more left and you have no food to eat for the weekend. That's why in some wars GDP also increases.
I would rather take Germany after the war if I wanted an example of prosperous and sustainable growth.

Anonymous Sat Nov 23 06:32:48 2019 No.16351729

>>16351529
>organic recovery and growth after the depression
Depression was still ongoing (1929 - late 30s) when recovery started for Germany (1933), which is exactly when Hitler and Schacht came to power.

>result of fractional reserve banking, lower inflation rates or any other kind of cheap money scheme, term transformation or any combination of those
There was a lot more drama to it, but that more or less was it

>It's like eating all the food in the fridge, the indicators of food ingested will rise sharply until you suddenly realise there's nothing more left and you have no food to eat for the weekend.
Using this analogy, food was cheap because the depression was global and raw material exporters were just as desperate to sell. Schacht was able to negotiate to settle directly with Reichsmarks, and along with careful oversight of foreign exchanges instead of a free market, was able to meet the needs of their public work programs and rearmament.
"The very necessity of bringing our armament up to a certain level as rapidly as possible must place in the foreground the idea of as large returns as possible in foreign exchange and therewith the greatest possible assurance of raw material supplies, through exporting."

>I would rather take Germany after the war if I wanted an example of prosperous and sustainable growth.
Of course, but the main subject of Keynes is recovery from depression-type market failures. Post-war recovery is of a completely different nature. If it's any consolation, Schacht wanted to stop their programs immediately after reaching full employment to return to a free market and start paying off the debt. But this is where Hitler said no and the rest is history.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 06:33:34 2019 No.16351732 >>16349515 > hasn't heard of Kleros the arm of the state will dissolve sooner than you think. buy guns, ammo, medicine, and Kleros.

Anonymous Sat Nov 23 07:01:53 2019 No.16351876

>>16350826
>You're overgeneralizing, rich people can just as easily become ruined and bankrupt in a downturn.
No, not just as easily. Obviously they can, but the rich generally have assets they can sell.

>Only the rich who hold their net worth in cash become the masters in a deflationary depression.
You seem to think becoming the masers equates to becoming richer. It doesn't. When money becomes scarcer, power becomes more dependent on money. Most of the rich also lose money but still have enough money left to gain power over the poor.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 07:06:16 2019 No.16351904 >>16349515 Do you seriously think avoiding going out of business is the only incentive to be efficient? >>16351732 WTF are Kleros?

Anonymous Sat Nov 23 07:28:52 2019 No.16352057

>>16351355
>It's the central bank which devalues the currency to introduce a greater quantity,
Not any more! Now it is the market that devalues the currency. And a greater quantity can correspond with devaluation (for obvious reasons) but it doesn't always. Speculation and arbitrage are more important to the short term value, and balance of trade is more important to the long term value.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 07:53:53 2019 No.16352213 >>16350008 what if i’m a gnostic polytheist

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 08:15:06 2019 No.16352348 >>16349430 It didn't. Take the post-Kenyesian pill.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 08:31:41 2019 No.16352464 >>16349555 >Keynesianism allows politicians to push artificial prosperity (in the real economy) Neoliberism allows central bankers to push artificial prosperity (in the financial market only)

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 09:06:27 2019 No.16352709 >>16351292 The people at the top are whites and Jews. If you want to compare the dwindling white middle class to the Indian "middle class," the latter literally can't even operate toilets, hold promises, etc.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 09:08:57 2019 No.16352725 >>16351292 Also you look reprehensible and lower class by your very nature, read the Rigveda for more

Anonymous Sat Nov 23 09:29:56 2019 No.16352838

>>16351184
>Full employment of both manpower and productive capacity would necessarily have led to price inflation if the government had not simultaneously instituted an all-embracing system of wage and price controls, for the double purpose of keeping down the level of consumption so production could be used for armament, and of adjusting distribution to consumption.
https://library.cqpress.com/cqresearcher/document.php?id=cqresrre1940110100
I don't know anything about the subject matter, but I guess this is something worth pointing out

Anonymous Sat Nov 23 09:35:17 2019 No.16352868

>>16351184
Industrial prices had been controlled under Bruning after the deflationary decree of December I93I. The post of Commissioner for the Supervision of Prices was created to oversee the mandated price reductions. The Com- missioner was fired by the Nazis and then reappointed to deal with the threat of inflation. Echoing Soviet practice in the I920S, business enterprises were encouraged to join cartels--like the Wirtschaftsgruppe Eisenschaffende Industrie--in order to ease the job of regulating them. But the controls did not work well at first. At the start of the second Four Year Plan, a new Commissioner was appointed who quickly prohibited all price increases over the level of 17 October 1936, in the famous Price Stop (Preisstop) Decree.24
More precise stuff from article called
Soviet and Nazi Economic Planning in the 1930s
Peter Temin

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 09:41:32 2019 No.16352899 File: 773 KB, 1020x1020, ancapgirl.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>16349436 fpbp

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 09:46:37 2019 No.16352930 >>16351482 Go back faggot.

Anonymous Sat Nov 23 10:39:33 2019 No.16353237
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>>16350792
forcibly binding people to your joke economy via taxation and the manipulation of the currency that you force them to use is the exact same thing as enslaving them
proponents of an economy predicated on the enslavement of only the people who produce wealth, justified on the grounds that it's "more stable", could only come from people so lacking in self-awareness that they don't see the irony in recognizing the government—an entity in society that DOES NOT NECESSARILY have to EARN wealth in order to control it—as a regulatory force to prevent people from the perceived unjust acquisition wealth.

if your economy is predicated on people not being allowed to leave, then you're a mafia—a gang of thugs that hurts and threatens SPECIFICALLY the practically skilled and intelligent people who don't pay up, and that pays off the idiot scum of society to shout and cheer about how much better the mafia is than anyone else, and to VOTE accordingly. no amount of justification that you present can change this fact.
keynes was a grandmaster bullshitter whose ideas might even be worse for humanity than marx's, if only because they're more insidious.
the ultimate factor in anything is genetics; in any system, everyone gets what they deserve. only with increasing free market capitalism, more often than not, do people and their genetics also get what they earn.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 11:04:03 2019 No.16353397 >>16349706 Chile. Look into the Chicago Boys and Milton Friedman.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 11:05:06 2019 No.16353402 >>16349749 research Chile and the Chicago Boys. Neoliberalism.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 11:17:48 2019 No.16353471 >>16349430 >"win" you have a scam going for less than 1% of human history which is crashing and burning for 100 years spoiler alert: Keynesian economics is dead in the water

Anonymous Sat Nov 23 12:17:10 2019 No.16353871 [DELETED]

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>>16353397
>>16353402
Milton Friedman was a Monetarist, not an Austrian.
>There are some Keynesian ideas that remain and were incorporated and some teachers who are still hardcore Keynesian but since the 70-80's it lost a lot of support.
Modern economic theories take a lot more from Keynesianism than they take from Austrian or Chicago schools of thought though.

Anonymous Sat Nov 23 12:22:46 2019 No.16353923
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>>16353397
>>16353402
Milton Friedman was a Monetarist, not an Austrian.
>>16351529
>There are some Keynesian ideas that remain and were incorporated and some teachers who are still hardcore Keynesian but since the 70-80's it lost a lot of support.
Modern economic theories take a lot more from Keynesianism than they take from Austrian or Chicago schools of thought though. In economics courses the Austrian theory is only briefly mentioned, if at all, and most of the focus is on Keynesian models about when the government should increase or decrease spending and raise or lower taxes. Pretty much no one is saying the government should stay out of the economy, and in fact if you were to even suggest a thing to a real economist you'd be laughed out of the room.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 12:25:22 2019 No.16353940 File: 323 KB, 1000x750, Jihans first day.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>16349436 Fpbp >>16350282 Jews are truly the work of Satan. >>16353237 Unbelievably based and correct. Good post anon.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 12:25:38 2019 No.16353946 >>16350006 You’re right. Anon has no idea what he’s talking about.

Anonymous Sat Nov 23 12:44:27 2019 No.16354088

>>16352838
So you're saying price controls work?

>>16352868
Imagine my shock and surprise when anti-inflationary price controls made a deflationary depression worse and the commissioner fired, then brought back when they actually had to deal with inflation.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 12:50:56 2019 No.16354144 >>16353402 See >>16351355 Imagine a coup overthrowing a socialist president seeking advice and support from a group that preaches that opposite. Unheard of. And don't forget the amount of financial and commercial aid the US gave to Pinochet.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 13:40:55 2019 No.16354588 >>16351904 Yes you fucking idiot

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 13:58:11 2019 No.16354731 >>16349430 Politicians can give "free" shit to the masses in a Keynesian economy.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 14:41:48 2019 No.16355171 >>16349456 When was the last time Keynesianism was actually tried?

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 14:45:08 2019 No.16355196 >>16350228 The one on the left looks like he was bathing in vodka in the womb.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 15:05:37 2019 No.16355379 >>16355196 They just look like fucking demons, I can't stand it, I'm not sure how they've been able to gain everyone's trust throughout history, I wouldn't even talk to a jew.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 15:09:04 2019 No.16355409 >>16355171 2008 It could have gone a lot better if they actually followed through with Keynes and provided liquidity to Lehman Brothers.

Anonymous Sat Nov 23 15:13:33 2019 No.16355443

>>16355409
Obama raised taxes. Democrats in general favor higher taxes and higher spending all the time regardless of the situation the economy is in. Republicans favor cutting taxes and...well they say they want to lower spending but they usually raise that as well (which ironically makes them more Keynesian than the Democrats).

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 15:39:18 2019 No.16355623 >>16355443 You're confusing economics with ideology and political warfare distractions. Absolutely disgusting.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 15:53:25 2019 No.16355727 >>16355623 Keynesianism advocates for government intervention in the economy, meaning that by necessity it requires political involvement.

Anonymous Sat Nov 23 15:58:45 2019 No.16355762

>>16355727
Keynesianism does not advocate for continuous government intervention which is what your post would imply. You should also remember that central banks are designed to be independent from politics as much as possible in many countries.

Let me also clarify then, party warfare distractions.

Anonymous Sat Nov 23 16:00:52 2019 No.16355778

>>16355762
>Keynesianism does not advocate for continuous government intervention
Exactly.
>>16355762
>You should also remember that central banks are designed to be independent from politics as much as possible in many countries.
Central banks can implement monetarist policies by themselves, but not Keynesian policies.

Anonymous Sat Nov 23 16:02:18 2019 No.16355794

Free markets cannot exists, because money and power follow pareto distributions, meaning there is either a ruling class (and a ruling mindset that has less to do with logic and more with power structure) or a power vacuum which means war and uncertainty.

Anonymous Sat Nov 23 16:06:41 2019 No.16355821

>>16355778
>Exactly.
So you agree your comments on political parties are immaterial to the response of the 2008 crisis as an example of Keynes in practice.

>Central banks can implement monetarist policies by themselves, but not Keynesian policies.
Monetarist policies are a part of Keynes just as much as fiscal policies are, which I assume is what you were actually referring to.

Anonymous Sat Nov 23 16:08:50 2019 No.16355838

>>16355821
>political parties are immaterial to the response of the 2008 crisis as an example of Keynes in practice
Government response to the 2008 crises requires politicians to act to enact Keynesian policies. Politicians are part of political parties and do not follow Keynesian economic theories.
>Monetarist policies are a part of Keynes just as much as fiscal policies are
Yes, they are one small part of the greater whole of Keynesian economic theory, but a Central Bank alone cannot implement Keynesian policy to respond to a recession.

Anonymous Sat Nov 23 16:13:22 2019 No.16355880

>>16355838
>Politicians are part of political parties and do not follow Keynesian economic theories.
What do you call the Economic Stimulus Act of 2008?
>but a Central Bank alone cannot implement Keynesian policy to respond to a recession
What do you call Quantitative easing?

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 16:13:52 2019 No.16355883 >>16355880 >What do you call the Economic Stimulus Act of 2008? An act that was accompanied by increases in taxes which are against Keynesian policies.

Anonymous Sat Nov 23 16:16:27 2019 No.16355903

Orthodoxy mystifies economic relations through "sophisticated" mathematics guided by Walras tendency towards general equilibrium and instantaneous exogenous shocks as the only real disruptive force (Dsge models). Their models are manipulated in order to allow for existing single solutions. (Glorified linear algebra basicaly).

Keynesianism and post-keynesianism on the other hand are mostly economic astrology. They cant quantify counter-factuals and are thus unable to measure costs of opportunity. Any recomendation based on keynesianism is baseless because it cant be obtained through a cost-benefit analysis.

The austrian school is even worse. Anything after the first austrians was a mistake. Austrians mystify the nature of power and hide power centers.

The "battle" was lost from the beginning. Austrianism cant be a tool of power in the jouvenelian sense. It cant allow eternal growt only moderate obsfuscation.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 16:47:17 2019 No.16356117 >>16355903 Please explain further for idiots. Everything but specially the last point.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 16:51:18 2019 No.16356144 >>16354088 I'm saying it's misleading of you to go "lol look there's no inflation" when they literally banned raising prices

Anonymous Sat Nov 23 17:43:52 2019 No.16356456

>>16356117
1/2
All economic activity relies on the usage of avaible means towards mutually exclusive ends. Pure economics is based around the relations between scarce means and the desirable ends. Normative economics deals with ethics and creates a hierarchy of ends. It defines priorities. Any economic decision demonstrates preference among the considered applications of labour and capital. If i choosed A instead of B and C i prefered at the time A. The expected value of the action A was higher than B or C. We have preferences + resources = prefered action. The concept of cost of opportunity here is key. My economic profit is not the surplus i get from the action A, but the surplus i get from A minus the surplus i would get from B or C. The cost of opportunity is the best alternative option i have. There are multiple models/perspectives trying to evaluate the cost/benefit of certain sets of possible aplications of capital and labour.

The orthodox new-keynesianism uses DSGE models. They are very refined models based around the general equilibrium theorem that simplify economic action and deal with simplifying hyphothesis in order to obtain a unique existent solution. If they have this unique solution they can predict the outcome of shocks over macroeconomic variables such as agreggate demand for labour, nominal prices, nominal salaries, etc. They use these models in order to evaluate the benefits/costs of certain interventions.

.

Anonymous Sat Nov 23 17:46:13 2019 No.16356479

>>16356117
2/2
The post-keynesians dont believe in these models. They reject them because they are unrealistic and end up exposing people to dangers they wouldn't expose themselves. They use macroeconomic identities and econometrics based on keynesian theory in order to construct optimal economic policy. The problem is that without the orthodox matematical models their forecastings/predictions are baseless (see "Lucas critique"). They cant measure the benefits/costs of inaction or of other patterns of intervention(counter- factuals). Their actions have long term repercutions that cant be reliably measured. They act because they feel like acting. Without cost-benefit annalysis your action cant be considered optimal or superior to other alternatives. Economic shamanism.

Austrians have a good methodology. They are economic subjectivists and use a individualist methodology;(like Emerson). They reached the conclusion that economics isnt a science at all because it has no predictive capacity. Ironically enough, they reached the same conclusion marxists did later. Because austrians advocate against the madness of baseless interventionsm they arent usefull for power centers. They cant solidify or increase power. Even if you believe that they are wrong they cant help governmental authorities because their recomended policies would hurt most corporations and specially the government.Austrianism would cripple centralized power (at least the status quo). Austrians arent usefull to Power. They never were. This is why they were faded to lose sooner of later

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 17:50:47 2019 No.16356520 >>16356117 ?/2 Orthodoxy is used by neoliberal/neoconservative power structures while keynesianism and post-keynesianism are used mostly by non-liberals.

Anonymous Sat Nov 23 17:54:42 2019 No.16356540

>>16349430
>>16349436
Why do communist shills make threads and then reply to them first and they proceed to jerk each other off until an actual anon comes and still pretend as though the thread wasn't planned from the start.
People would respect you more if you didn't resort to such underhanded tactics.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 17:56:17 2019 No.16356551 >>16349507 Tarrifs don't suck at all. Why would you think they do? Becuase orange man bad?

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 17:57:55 2019 No.16356566 >>16356520 >post-keynesianism what would be the seminal, defining work of post-keynesianism?

Anonymous Sat Nov 23 18:02:28 2019 No.16356597
File: 1.05 MB, 1971x1159, __donald_trump_thomas_edison_henry_ford_and_andrew_carnegie_original_and_1_more_drawn_by_tansuke__60e6e3e328e1a82d6651c1f40785fced.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>16356551
They're inefficient. They protect a few businesses which ought to be allowed to fail at the expense of many businesses which suffer from the increased cost of goods. A tariff against steel imports may help steel manufacturers in the USA, but it raises the cost of steel for every other business which hurts construction, ship-building, the automobile industry, and just about any other business that uses steel, resulting in decreased profits, wages being lowered, and less employment.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 18:06:48 2019 No.16356635 >>16356144 And where's the contradiction?

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 18:08:18 2019 No.16356652 >>16356566 Look up Kalecki, he's really the father. But if there's a single defining work it would be MMT.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 18:19:10 2019 No.16356733 >>16349507 Actually Keynes did advocate for some amount of protectionism, the difference is that he wanted it to be temporary, much like his advocation for increased spending and lower interest rates, to be used during recession.

Anonymous Sat Nov 23 18:40:15 2019 No.16356872
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>>16349430
1/2
I'm reading a lot of 'this vs. that,' and feel compelled to offer an alternative perspective: that keyneian and austrian economics aren't mutually exclusive at all.

The fundamentals of each deal with different subjects: keynes dealt with demand-side and austrianism deals with supply side. (This is a gross simplification, but bear with me.)

The reasons for dealing with these two things come down to a different focus: while austrian economics seeks to establish the best possible nash-equilibrium for a given scenario, keyensians seek the best possible paereto-equilibrium. In particular, they treat employment a little differently.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 18:43:37 2019 No.16356894 >>16356566 Read Minsky and Keynes. If you want to understand MMT read Abba Lerner. Functional Finance(MMT) is keynesianism taken to its logical conclusion.

Anonymous Sat Nov 23 18:46:02 2019 No.16356910
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>>16349430
2/2
So to talk about the Nash equilibrium, Austrians are looking at how entrepreneurs are supplied with resources via currency that's strongly backed, and therefore is loaned by the strongest sense of profit-maximizing self interest possible. They're looking to keep supply as strong as possible because it means that people who use resources are most likely to have good uses for them.

Keynesians seeking the paereto-equilibrium accept a greater frequency of fuckups by acknowledging that, by and large, the entrepreneurs making use of resources are trying their best. Capital is kept a little more free-and-loose in exchange for a greater quantity of loan interactions. The idea there is that mitigating as much structural unemployment due to successful new ideas that we can results in the greatest quantity of entrepreneurs with the personal financial freedom to execute new ideas. Increasing the quantity of new business executions allows for more employment, and so on.

So I posit that the two 'factions' aren't really at odds with one another, they're just looking at different levels of outcome and trying to maximize them. Austrians are asking, "in the worst case scenario how do we profit?" and keyensians are asking, "in the best case scenario how do we profit the most?"

Anonymous Sat Nov 23 19:04:05 2019 No.16357054

>>16349784
Austrian economics just means that wealth is measured in amount of money and assets that are owned. This has been shown wrong time and time again, all you have to do is watch the financial news and see that economic strength is measured by:
>amount of public spending
>amount of money available as credit
>amount of public earnings
wealth is measured by velocity, it has to be borrowed and spent to make the economy move
Notice that you never see:
>amount of public assets
as a measure of wealth

Anonymous Sat Nov 23 19:10:34 2019 No.16357088

>>16357054
You dont know what you are talking about. Pls stop pretending. This is embarassing. Wealth, by its very definition, is a stock of goods destined to future production. This includes means of production and the general representative of value(money, in non-marxist terminology). You are basically stating that wealth is given by demand and not a stock of goods while citing financial times. Stop pretending you understand austrianism. A marxist would disagree with you. A austrian would laugh.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 19:11:18 2019 No.16357091 >why did the government adopt an ideology that lets them spend massive amounts of money

Anonymous Sat Nov 23 19:14:20 2019 No.16357105

>>16349769
>Use Austrian economics to explain Germany's economic miracle recovery before WW2.
>>16349820

huuur dude, like austrian economics is so knarly
>It's pretty easy to recover after having your country destroyed bro. Pretty much everything gets better after a war.
>Just ending a war makes your economy instantly better.
someone here is not aware of the Weimar Republic blowing out their currency with hyperinflation to pay public debt. Bear in mind the huge economic strength of Germany followed shortly after this hyperinflation
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperinflation_in_the_Weimar_Republic

>To pay for the large costs of the ongoing First World War, Germany suspended the gold standard (the convertibility of its currency to gold) when the war broke out. Unlike France, which imposed its first income tax to pay for the war, German Emperor Wilhelm II and the Reichstag decided unanimously to fund the war entirely by borrowing,

The strategy failed when Germany lost the war. The new Weimar Republic was saddled with a massive war debt that it could not afford. That was worsened by the fact that it was printing money without economic resources to back it.[3] The Treaty of Versailles, with its demand for reparations, further accelerated the decline in the value of the mark, so that 48 paper marks were required to buy a US dollar by late 1919.

>The first payment was made when it came due in June 1921.[9] It marked the beginning of an increasingly rapid devaluation of the mark, which fell in value to approximately 330 marks per dollar.[5] The total reparations demanded were 132 billion gold marks, but Germany had to pay only 50 billion marks.

>Since reparations were required to be repaid in hard currency, not the rapidly depreciating paper mark, one strategy that Germany used was the mass printing of bank notes to buy foreign currency, which was then used to pay reparations, greatly exacerbating the inflation of the paper mark

Anonymous Sat Nov 23 19:14:29 2019 No.16357107
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So I've done some reading online and apparently most economists have merged into a sort of new neoclassical synthesis which combines a bunch of different economic theories and models into one, and they all exist within this synthesis but argue about the details. Which is cool I guess, but also kind of frustrating since it's impossible for someone who is on the outside looking in to understand economic consensus on things like regulation, taxes, spending, deficits, and central banking.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 19:15:23 2019 No.16357112 >>16357088 >This includes means of production time to stop posting gramps, we havent lived in a production based economy for quite a long time, just go back to watching tv and stay off the internet

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 19:20:08 2019 No.16357144 >>16357107 Based Steve Keen(160 IQ) BTFOs the neoclassical meme

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 19:24:43 2019 No.16357173 >>16356597 Not at all because it incentivizes Americans to produce steel in house and any increase in cost will simple be given to the consumer. Oh noes i can't buy muh cheap Chinese garbage anymore what ever will i do!

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 19:26:16 2019 No.16357178 >>16357173 >any increase in cost will simple be given to the consumer Which decreases consumption, which decreases profits and production, wages, and employment.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 19:27:27 2019 No.16357189 >>16357088 If i bundle up all my shit and call it goods does that make my shit valuable or wealth creation. The correct answer you communist fuck is only if the market wants my shit.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 19:29:48 2019 No.16357212 >>16357107 >i guess >needing consensus >muh authority Go back

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 19:32:54 2019 No.16357237 >>16357107 Ron Pual >it will hurt the working class >the working class will get paid more for their services

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 19:35:38 2019 No.16357258 >>16357178 >decreases consumption Why would you make this assumption, especially when a new steel mine is looking for new employees? Even if it did, it wouldn't hurt the overall economy. They would still spend, just on different things.

Anonymous Sat Nov 23 19:43:26 2019 No.16357315

>>16357189
Wealth is a stock of goods that can produce other goods. Thats literally it. Your pee jars are not wealth. This is not only a marxist definition, but also the austrian definition(source:" pure theory of capital").Virtual "wealth" isnt wealth. The financial markets mostly transfer wealth. The primary financial market is the only one that deals with actual wealth because it generates real output. It transfers surplus to those in need through thr promise of interest rates and dividends.

Anonymous Sat Nov 23 19:46:00 2019 No.16357342

>>16357258
When you raise the price on a good from increased cost, less people buy that good, and the people that do buy that good will have less money to buy other goods. And while the steel industry is hiring new workers, every other industry that uses steel is having to fire workers because of the increased cost and decreased profits. You're helping one business at the cost of everyone else.

Anonymous Sat Nov 23 19:48:35 2019 No.16357361

>>16357315
>Wealth is a stock of goods that can produce other goods.
which basically means factories, almost nothing is produced in the US anymore, we live in a services and information economy. Even if you were to take the cost of a factory, the building (which very few companies own) the equipment, the value of all the machinery means nothing and is not taken into account other than Marxist idiots who actually believe that power is in the 'means of production'

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 19:48:36 2019 No.16357363 >>16357237 >What are nominal prices >What are real prices Are you retarded?

Anonymous Sat Nov 23 19:51:46 2019 No.16357383

>>16357361
Means of production are simply called superior goods in austrian theory. Rubber is a superior good. A engine is a superior good. An orange can be a superior good if you own a juice factory. Human capital is also a good. All of the above are considered wealth because they can be used for future production. You are just being obtuse.

Anonymous Sat Nov 23 20:03:21 2019 No.16357465

>>16349430
Just putting this out there anon. Keynesian economics isn't really what we use anymore post 2008. It still is the foundation for a lot of models and the whole capital stock holds true for a lot of developing countries.

As it turns out even using GDP as an indicator of growth is pretty shit. It was originally used in WW2 to identify industrial output and where it would be best to hurt the war economy.

As of right now macroeconomics is in the shitter. We know certain things follow more or less similar growth trends, but don't know why productivity grows the way it does. We don't even have a good definition of productivity, just that its what's left over when you throw inputs used in production together.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 20:06:49 2019 No.16357498 >>16355880 >What do you call Quantitative easing? Free money for the S&P to avoid pension funds and bad bank full of unrepaid loans to collapse Nothing in common with real economy stimulus

Anonymous Sat Nov 23 20:08:58 2019 No.16357514
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>>16357465
I'll be honest, modern economics really fucking confuses me. I understand that the old "school" system (Austrian, Keynesian, Chicago, etc.) is outdated, but at least it was easy to understand. Everyone today is in this sort of sludge of a mixture of different ideas that don't necessarily correlate with any particular ideology or school.

Anonymous Sat Nov 23 20:18:03 2019 No.16357578

>>16356479
>They reject them because they end up exposing people to dangers they wouldn't expose themselves
Such as?

>They cant solidify or increase power. Even if you believe that they are wrong they cant help governmental authorities because their recomended policies would hurt most corporations and specially the government.Austrianism would cripple centralized power (at least the status quo)
How does this work? Why would an Austrian framework be useless and an Orthodox one not?

>This is why they were faded to lose sooner of later
So how do you propose? Is there no solution to this?

I'd be glad if you could provide some links or sources to learn about all this.

>>16356597
It can be used as a tax on the national market to sell at lower and more competitive prices at the foreign markets where, once it gets a hold of it in prejudice of foreign corporations, will be paid back + interest.

Anonymous Sat Nov 23 20:48:54 2019 No.16357743

>>16357578
>It can be used as a tax on the national market to sell at lower and more competitive prices at the foreign markets where
Are you saying that the government should subsidize the steel industry after raising tariffs on it? Or lower domestic taxes on it after raising tariffs?

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 20:56:00 2019 No.16357802 >>16357342 But they be losing money though becuase the new steel workers will be purchasing steel with their new income. Its trickle down economics which in fact does work in reality, just depends where it trickles down.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 20:58:15 2019 No.16357826 >>16357383 An orange is only a superior good if you own a juice factory. That's the real difference

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 21:02:10 2019 No.16357858 Tarrifs are just light embargoes which have always had bad economic effects on the embargoed but good effects for the embargoers

Anonymous Sat Nov 23 21:04:19 2019 No.16357873

>>16357743
No. Stell prices post-tariff are higher on the national market. This allows for the national steel industry to export at cheaper prices. Once the foreign steel industry goes bankrupt (or the national one can compete with it) it can rise prices in the foreign markets and the tariff is removed. It can lower them in the national market now so you get back those initial high prices.

Anonymous Sat Nov 23 21:19:10 2019 No.16357958

>>16357873
The national steel industry still can't compete with foreign steel on the foreign market because the factors that caused it to become uncompetitive in the first place haven't been fixed. The steel is still just as uncompetitively expensive at it was before, you just eliminated the domestic competition through tariffs, but foreign competition is as strong as ever.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 21:31:06 2019 No.16358034 >>16357958 The foreign competition is no more. The higher prices charged on the domestic market were used to finance cheaper prices on the foreign one until it couldn't sustain its losses anymore.

Anonymous Sat Nov 23 22:02:32 2019 No.16358202

>>16358034
>The higher prices charged on the domestic market were used to finance cheaper prices on the foreign one until it couldn't sustain its losses anymore.
There's no country big enough that domestic profits could subsidize foreign losses like that.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 22:07:00 2019 No.16358231 >>16349430 Because it makes parasites rich

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 22:07:29 2019 No.16358233 >>16358202 Well if I recall correctly Germany did it back in the day.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 22:31:31 2019 No.16358364 >>16358233 In which day?

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 23 23:36:29 2019 No.16358718 >>16354588 You disregard all other incentives and you call me a fucking idiot? I'm pretty sure if you asked everyone on this board which one of us is the idiot, they'd nominate the one who doesn't regard financial success as an incentive!

Anonymous Sun Nov 24 00:00:14 2019 No.16358890

>>16353237
>forcibly binding people to your joke economy via taxation and the manipulation of the currency that you force them to use is the exact same thing as enslaving them
Forcibly binding??? I'm not suggesting preventing anyone from leaving.

Let me guess: you're one of those meme libertarians who considers all duty to be slavery?
You're happy for the poor to be excluded from the land of the rich, but you think the rich's right to tell the poor to FOAD is more important than the rights of the poor?

You think that the only people who produce wealth are those who are already rich, and that they're enslaved. And you disregard what the government can do to enable everyone (not just the rich) to produce more wealth. I suggest you take your eyes off Rand's fantasy and start looking at the real world!

Anonymous Sun Nov 24 00:06:43 2019 No.16358919
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>tfw economics has been so refined that we've managed to approach a near unified theory on how to handle the economy via new neoclassical synthesis
>tfw dumb voters will never vote for proper economic policies
We should honestly just create an unelected oligarchy ran be economists at this point.

>>	Anonymous Sun Nov 24 00:07:43 2019 No.16358926 >>16358919 economics is 100% bullshit

Anonymous Sun Nov 24 00:08:25 2019 No.16358930

>>16349430
People love free shit and empty promises. Not to mention how the government systems screwed up heavily, blamed it on the private sector, and then when it was fixed by the private sector, the government claimed responsibility for the upward trend.

>>	Anonymous Sun Nov 24 00:22:06 2019 No.16359004 >>16358926 Then how are they able to develop models which accurately predict what is going to happen in the economy and how government policies can adjust it?

>>	Anonymous Sun Nov 24 03:25:21 2019 No.16359841 >>16357498 >Nothing in common with real economy stimulus What's a "real economy stimulus"?

>>	Anonymous Sun Nov 24 03:53:40 2019 No.16359962 >>16359841 One where the money doesn't stay in the financial sector, but actually results in businesses increasing their production.

>>	Anonymous Sun Nov 24 04:31:39 2019 No.16360156 >>16358919 >We should honestly just create already done, but its not you who did it

>>	Anonymous Sun Nov 24 05:06:00 2019 No.16360358 >>16358364 1870 onwards. >>16360156 Who did?

>>	Anonymous Sun Nov 24 07:23:54 2019 No.16360898 >>16350686 Mmt is only a discection of the current American system and is not an economic theory in the same sense as Keynesian economic theory.

Anonymous Sun Nov 24 07:35:39 2019 No.16360938

>>16349430
Because it works better to paper over capitalism's inherent contradictions. Without a state, economic crisis leads to societal instability, and eventually the whole thing collapsing. Those in charge want to keep the machine chugging for as long as possible, and Austrian economics just doesn't do that. As a socialist, I honestly wished this wasn't the case, and support Austrian-Accelerationism

https://www.hoover.org/research/how-fdr-saved-capitalism

>>	Anonymous Sun Nov 24 08:29:34 2019 No.16361196 Keynesian theory is to engineer society while austrian try to understand it

Anonymous Sun Nov 24 09:15:47 2019 No.16361403

>>16350686
The dollar is not a bubble, Anon. It will not pop, as its value is self correcting.

>>16360898
MMT is not limited to the current American system. It is very much an economic theory, as it explains what the result of various changes will be and why.

What is it you think Keynesian economic theory has that MMT lacks?

>>16361196
The austrians are more concerned with pretending they understand it than trying to actually understand it.

>>	Anonymous Sun Nov 24 09:23:41 2019 No.16361438 File: 573 KB, 800x445, Quotes_9143ff_5441014-e1522325223805-800x445.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>16349436 This. They even admit to rent seeking.

>>	Anonymous Sun Nov 24 09:26:15 2019 No.16361447 >>16358231 based

Anonymous Sun Nov 24 09:31:50 2019 No.16361462

>>16349430
It didn't, some forms of "Keynesianism" (in the popular sense) were being practised before Keynes and even the degree to which academic standard textbook economics of the 1950s was really "Keynesian" (in the sense Keynes would understanding) is questionable. After the 1970s stagflation "Keynesianism" lost public credibility and everyone returned to faith in older theories. Also it depends what you mean by "Austrianism"... Hayek rejected the methodology of Mises.

>>16349725
>Austrianism is just free market
No it's not, Austrians like Mises and Rothboard don't even approve of a real free market in money and demand gold have a monopoly to fix the money supply.

Anonymous Sun Nov 24 09:36:30 2019 No.16361481

>>16350686
Keynes thought about monetary policy different from what's today called MMT... the world was to far different from todays experience with convertible floating currencies.
Also if the dollar "pops" it's the fault of idiotic politicians and bureaucrats, all MMT does is explain the mechanism and what to expect from actions.

>>	Anonymous Sun Nov 24 10:00:59 2019 No.16361602 >>16350006 Labor participation lowest in 50 years.

>>	Anonymous Sun Nov 24 11:01:59 2019 No.16362023 >>16349507 Have you seriously not read Free Trade Doesn’t Work by Ian Fletcher?

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