/biz/ - Business & Finance

[Anonymous No.16142394]

What's it like being a communist?

[Anonymous No.16142420]

>>16142394
He's unironically right.
Mining in any field shouldn't be profitable...it should be strictly for pleasure and any profits should be given to each his own needs.

[Anonymous No.16142446]

>>16142394
>thinking anything like this can work without a profit motive
Cringe

[Anonymous No.16142454]

>>16142394

Commies always redefine terms with slippery logic to set up their straw man arguments.

"Mining" is actually a task designed by Satoshi to incentivize work. Without the incentive (getting paid) then nobody works.

Keep your eye out for these idiots redefining terms and concepts to make stupid left wing twitter strawmen posts like these.

[Anonymous No.16142477]

>>16142454
this.

who would've thought that larping as an Austrian economist would be the most effective back-door for technocratic communism

[Anonymous No.16142593]

the Bitcoin mining market => perfectly competitive => nobody has any profit

Basic economics

[Anonymous No.16142631]

>>16142593

So that means the market is not perfectly competitive.

Profits can be competed away until they're very low, but never zero, because of costs. If profits reach zero, people stop working. Rigs are switched off and electricity isn't used.

[Anonymous No.16142648]

>>16142631
>the market isn't perfectly competitive because WE MUST HAVE PROFIT DAMMIT
lel

[Anonymous No.16142668]

>>16142648

Yup, WE MUST. It's why we're all on /biz lol

[Anonymous No.16142685]

>>16142394
I imagine it feels like being constantly uncomfortable, kinda angry too, but you aren't quite sure why. You can recognize a lot of problems you have, but bury it under stupid logic, or blame others for your problems. You also tend to react very apathetically when you hear things like useful career or personal finance advice.

[Anonymous No.16142689]

>>16142593
this has to be bait

[Anonymous No.16142694]

im just here to read the idiots actually trying to argue for free working labor for things.
>sits back and reads the stupid

[Anonymous No.16142879]

>>16142631
Dude. Zero economic profit means there’s still accounting profit

[Anonymous No.16142984]

>>16142394
It feels pretty good. You become certain that all the problems in life are the fault of others and that its a matter of eventual outcome until all the worlds problems are solved overnight. This is what they mean when they say late stage capitalism. They have to continuously convince themselves the communist revolution is just around the corner. And when it doesn't come thats ok because well, it will one day.

[Anonymous No.16143007]

>>16142685
We're talkin about Communism, Not Zoomers

[Anonymous No.16143018]

>>16142394
ask your mum!

[Anonymous No.16143027]

>>16142394
If you're 555, I'm 666.
What's it like to be a heretic?

[Anonymous No.16143292]

>>16142394
Not being paid for your labor isn't communism. That's slavery. Being paid only partly for your labor, with the surplus above the minimum necessary to exist, is capitalism. OP pic is just a brainlet, and OP is an Amerimut with no real political education so they think communism is slavery.

Where capitalism uses social labor for private profit, communism uses social labor for social profit.

[Anonymous No.16143301]

>>16143292

> with the surplus above the minimum necessary to exist

...being privately seized, is capitalism.

[Anonymous No.16143372]

>>16143292
>>16143301
capitalism is where you have the right to own things so the only way someone can be profitable is to exchange value for your wealth. The most profitable people are therefore the ones that deliver the most value to others.
Where socialism is where some entity arbitrates what you own and can take your wealth whether you want them to or not. The most profitable people are those who have political power.

in your example of labor; socialism would force you to work for some compensation where capitalism lets you decide what to exchange your labor for.
The decrease in wealth of individuals in the west over the past 100 years is because central banks take peoples wealth via debasement and redistributes it to the collective economy aka socialism.

[Anonymous No.16143385]

>>16142394
based christian luke is telling how it is. getting rid of greedy chink miners is necessary or jigpig will take control.

[Anonymous No.16143395]

>>16143292

Payment can be non monetary. Payment can be in the form of satisfaction, which is why people choose to do volunteer work, eg doctors working for Doctors Without Borders.

Luke Dashjr is lamenting that miners aren't mining for a non-financial reward, and seem only driven by the cash reward.

Capitalism isn't a system of "users vs the used". It's a system of contracts - people voluntarily engaging in transactions. Being a software engineer in silicon valley is still being a worker, yet the surplus above minimum in that industry is several hundred grand. This is because few people can do the same job.

On the other hand, wages for being a waiter are low, because 6.8 billion people on earth can do the same job.

Co-ops and farming communes can exist within a capitalist society, because again, capitalism is the system of contracts. How people choose to divvy up profits in a commune or co-op can be up to them.

[Anonymous No.16143400]

>>16143372
This, OP pic is a brainlet

[Anonymous No.16143401]

>>16143292
>Being paid only partly for your labor, with the surplus above the minimum necessary to exist, is capitalism
How are you so retarded to have these exactly backwards? Capitalism is the ONLY system that lets you sell your own labors to clients yourself so you keep 100%. Everything else demands you work for the system.

[Anonymous No.16143618]

>>16142420

Gonna need your profits then.

[Anonymous No.16143634]

>>16143385
hes ironically unironically correct. you cant have this kind of rights (a working bitcoin ecosystem) without responsibilities (people working together to keep it maintained). bitcoin will collapse because it is being used and abused by short term profit fags.

nowadays everything is ruled by money. now everyone has to get paid just to perform their responsibility. e.g. armies used to be just the countryfolk grabbing their rifle and going off to defend the country. no salary necessary.

[Anonymous No.16143678]

>What's it like being a communist?

They work for free

[Anonymous No.16143700]

>>16143634
>year 2019. btc supporters are openly socialist

[Anonymous No.16143714]

>>16142420
Imagine having a tattoo like this

[Anonymous No.16143825]

>>16143634
Then go mine

[Anonymous No.16143853]

None of you faggots know what communism means do you? Here, have 3 sentences that throw but one wrench in your entire worldview.

> All successful businesses are oligopolies. Otherwise they wouldn't exist, since anyone could just borrow money, hire labor and sell the products. The fact that not everyone can do that is because capitalists have unfair advantages. For the same reasons all successful businesses are oligopolies, all industries converge into monopolies.
>>16142394
>>16142420
>>16142446
>>16142454
>>16142477
>>16142631
>>16142984
>>16142879
>>16143395
>>16143400
>>16143401

[Anonymous No.16143908]

>>16143700
wheres the socialism? btc will die if its not eventually mined at a loss. or everyone can move to NANO i guess.

reality doesnt give a shit about "capitalism" or "socialism"

>>16143825
i do mine and its at a small loss. i made about 500k in 2017.

[Anonymous No.16143935]

>>16143853

You're missing one key piece of information.

Only a government can grant monopoly or oligopoly power. Using the power of the state to actively prevent competition from entering a market.

If a big corporation can simply do a job better because it has experience, skilled staff, more capital and better technology, it has *economic power* and can beat competition.

It has won the right to its position in the market fair and square, through delivering a better service that the market chose.

In this type of situation, barriers to entry may be high. But competitors are free to try enter the market.

Take google for example. It is simply the best search engine, and the market rewards it by using it. Competitors are free to try - like bing, duck duck go etc - but google can't shut them down using government. Google is not a government granted monopoly.

If a government writes laws and regulations preventing new entrants coming into the market - that is different, this is a true monopoly (or oligopoly if there's more than one player).

[Anonymous No.16143942]

>>16143853
Imagine actually believing Cuba is leading cancer and vaccine research. Cuba. The place where those worthless faggots that keep washing up on Florida beaches come from.

[Anonymous No.16143948]

>>16142394
peak cognitive dissonance

[Anonymous No.16143959]

>>16143853
In a communist society, could I produce hand made goods from my garage workshop, sell them to people at a local market, and keep the profit for myself to eventually invest into a better house, higher quality materials, tools, and assistants? Or is it more likely that I get arrested by the local goons of the Communist Party, dragged before a court and declared "enemy of the state" because rather than working in a factory for a government-mandated ration I tried to gain money on my own to improve my living situation beyond what they deemed "appropriate"?

[Anonymous No.16143970]

>>16143908
the block reward was always a subsidy.
transaction fees make it profitable comrade.

[Anonymous No.16144035]

>>16143942

Cri more

[Anonymous No.16144055]

>>16143970
tx fees will not be enough, unless they become ridiculously high, which will cause most users to leave to other coins. mining will become centralized which was luke's point.

leaving your money supply to be ran by selfinterested profiteers is what we already have with central banking...

[Anonymous No.16144067]

>>16142394
I wouldn't know. I'm all in BSV.

[Anonymous No.16144079]

>>16143959
In a communist society you would not have a need for money and there would be no state to oppress you to begin with. You would not desire to profit because your community and culture (two things destroyed by capital) would care for you as you would them. Before someones says "well that's clearly not Cuba." Cuba is not communist, it's a managed form of capitalism in transition to socialism/communism depending on the marxist you ask. Even with a managed form of capitalism they already operate within a higher mode of production resulting in a more efficient economy. The meme is to get our attention, and it is true barring the usage of the word.

[Anonymous No.16144094]

>>16142984
kek

[Anonymous No.16144103]

>>16143027
Shut up, Corey.

[Anonymous No.16144106]

>>16144035

https://translatingcuba.com/how-does-the-cuban-survive-eduardo-martinez/

Up until a few years ago, everything was guaranteed. You would work for the State until the age of 60, then retire with a little pension that would support you until death. Today, nothing is guaranteed. Nothing.

The current situation of average Cubans–more than 90% of the population–is dire, literally unsustainable. The government knows this but does nothing to improve this situation, even though there exist the means and resources to do so, the methods and a trained labor force desirous of working for a suitable salary.

Of what use have been those vaunted “Guidelines”? We Cubans continue to live in poverty, on the lowest human scale.

The current situation of average Cubans–more than 90% of the population–is dire, literally unsustainable. The government knows this but does nothing to improve this situation, even though there exist the means and resources to do so, the methods and a trained labor force desirous of working for a suitable salary.

One of my neighbors in Havana’s El Cerro neighborhood is an engineer who is now quite advanced in years. His wife was a professor. Both have been retired now for decades, with pensions of 200 Cuban pesos* (CUP) per month each. They have no children or other relatives. They were once faithful and honest functionaries, and members of the Cuban Communist Party (PCC).

The minimum cost of living is at about 2500 CUP (approx. 100 Cuban convertible pesos, CUC*) per month. With that sum one can acquire basic foodstuffs and medicines. Forget clothes and shoes, household appliances, home repairs, etc.

Both of these elderly people have to decide between what they will eat or what medicines they will buy when needed. In the not too distant future they will die and will not be counted in the national statistics as dead from starvation or lack of adequate medical care.

[Anonymous No.16144119]

>>16143292
>communism uses social labor for social profit
In other words:
>If I were king for a day I would dictate the labor force and limited resources into my pet projects and society would be better for it

[Anonymous No.16144143]

>>16142984
Had a good chuckle

[Shlomo Goldbergstein No.16144158]

>>16143853

>look! we got some doctors and shit, not a third world shithole!

Imagine being this deluded.

[Anonymous No.16144184]

>>16144158

Lol yup. Free healthcare, and mostly poverty for all!

[Anonymous No.16144215]

>>16144106

With respect you're just wrong and I don't believe some shady early 2000s looking site. Cuba has a high human development index of 0.777 and here's the source straight from the United Nations.

> Cuba’s HDI value for 2017 is 0.777— which put the country in the high human development category—
positioning it at 73 out of 189 countries and territories. Between 1990 and 2017, Cuba’s HDI value
increased from 0.676 to 0.777, an increase of 15.0 percent. Table A reviews Cuba’s progress in each of the
HDI indicators. Between 1990 and 2017, Cuba’s life expectancy at birth increased by 5.3 years, mean
years of schooling increased by 3.3 years and expected years of schooling increased by 1.7 years. Cuba’s
GNI per capita increased by about 53.4 percent between 1990 and 2017.

http://hdr.un dp. org/sites/all/themes/hdr_theme/country-notes/CUB.pdf

[Anonymous No.16144239]

>>16144158

Yes, because American's are breaking U.S law to get treatment in Cuba because Cuba is a shithole. Go be a retard somewhere else

[Anonymous No.16144292]

>>16144215
As the other anon showed in his citation "they will not even be counted in the statistics". Who provides the data for Cuba?

[Anonymous No.16144333]

>>16142394
Mining profitability is in the fucking whitepaper.
It is a fun thought experiment to imagine a world where Bitcoin mining has negative profit, like a tax, but this negative profit is necessarily paid to keep the system going, again like a tax.

Or the opposite, a world where taxes are not paid but people are instead incentivized in ways that cause them to perform all the services currently paid for by tax.

[Anonymous No.16144465]

>>16142394
if i had a loaded gun with one bullet and faketoshi and this retard were in the room with me i would be hard put to make a decision which one to eliminate. they both doing their best to kill btc in their own way.

[Anonymous No.16144470]

>>16143853
>words words words words words
alright thanks communist but i aint readin that shit lol!!!!!

[Anonymous No.16144487]

Capitalism is an economic and political system in which a country’s trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit, rather than by the state. This system leads to exploitative labor practices, which affect marginalized groups disproportionately.

[Anonymous No.16144536]

>>16144487
>>16143372

[Anonymous No.16144583]

>>16142394
Is that real? How much influence does this commie have on development?

[Anonymous No.16144871]

>>16144487
Just kill yourself, the dipshit community college sociology teacher you are regurgitating doesn't actually know anything.

[Anonymous No.16144961]

>>16144871
Nice rebuttal. How about you try refuting this? Hard mode: no lazy ad hominems.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHWAi_xCA_s

[Anonymous No.16145039]

>>16144961
>no lazy ad hominems
>even in their arguments commies try to make you do all the work.
You're a retard and that video is retarded.

[Anonymous No.16145069]

>>16145039
You fail. Thanks.

[Anonymous No.16145077]

>>16143935
Corporations can easily become government
Just look at any monopoly in third world countries, most of them became quite competitive on their own, but used their capital to lobby or bribe the government into granting them monopolies
Some of them straight up become the government with their own paramilitary forces, twisting the local populace into submission, or literally killing the competition

[Anonymous No.16145204]

>>16142394
>mining is not supposed to be profitable
why do some people just hate themselves and fun and good? And why do they feel the need to share their worthless opinions with others?

[Anonymous No.16145228]

>>16143292
>communism profits the people
Literally over a billion people died because enough retards believed this very lie. You are a stupid fuck and you should shut up if you don’t know what you are talking about, it makes you look like a fool.

Go to Russia or China if you love communism so much you hypocritical faggot

[Anonymous No.16145243]

>>16144035
>lung cancer vaccine
who actually believes this shit?

[Anonymous No.16145256]

>>16144487
>implying the state won’t do the exact same thing if given the exact same power
The only difference is the state will have a monopoly instead of multiple competitors with capitalism

[Anonymous No.16145271]

>>16145077
YEAH, SO GOVERNMENT IS THE PROBLEM! TAKE THE POWER AWAY FROM THEM YOU STUPID NIGGER.

[Anonymous No.16145312]

>>16144035
>vaccine
>for cancer
Who even writes these articles?

[Anonymous No.16145321]

It is having a fairly good understanding of a problem bundled together with a complete inability to solve it and the inability to recognize that inability.

[Anonymous No.16145988]

>>16143853
guess who ends up in charge of both systems? power is concentrated within a small elite. you fell for the society is a meme meme meme.

[Anonymous No.16146239]

>>16145077

Government has the power to write regulations that can cripple competitors. Government has resources and can grant favors to special interest groups.

Corporations lobby government because it has these powers over the economy. This is cronyism. And cronyism is a feature of governments.

Therefore the problem is government. Get rid of government power over the economy, and power to grant favors and divvy up resources - and corporations will have nothing to lobby for.

[Anonymous No.16146903]

>>16142454
>Commies always redefine terms with slippery logic to set up their straw man arguments.
This, x100,000 over

[Anonymous No.16146909]

>>16143853
You're literally retarded

[Anonymous No.16146923]

>>16143853
>since anyone could just borrow money, hire labor and sell the products
Anyone literally can.

Some may just have to save up longer than others.

[Anonymous No.16146950]

>poltards entering cripto
perfect competition => no profit

[Anonymous No.16147132]

>>16142420
Nothing more pleasurable than turning your entire apartment into a supercomputer with a consistent temperature of 120 for no gain at all.

[Anonymous No.16147144]

>>16142394
Impractical idealism is the name of the game

[Anonymous No.16147163]

>>16147132
b-but how else can you validate that the store got your money when buying tendies?

[Anonymous No.16147747]

>>16144079
Stop living in fantasy hollywood movies.

[Anonymous No.16148423]

>>16143935
Not to be a communist, but if you carry that out to it's conclusion you wind up with one giga-corp that rules all areas of economic activity and can even usurp the government. Not cool