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/biz/ - Business & Finance

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16086600 No.16086600 [Reply] [Original]

Is the lawyer meme worth it?

>> No.16086610
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16086610

>> No.16086612

>>16086600
you want to join lawyer school?

>> No.16086650

>>16086600
hopefully
>t. first year student at top 1 law school

>> No.16086676

>>16086600
no, all lawyers will be replaces by smartcontracts running on Chainlink™

>> No.16086925

>>16086610
how did saul get a nice girl like her

>> No.16086969

>>16086676
Mergers and Acquisition lawyers, doc review, maybe. Driverless cars will kill personal injury practices.
But, not trial lawyers in general. Particularly in criminal cases. Never going to happen.
The Supreme Court will protect the guild. I expect a decision eventually that will rule that the Constitutional "Right to Council" will be interpreted as "human council."

t. actual lawyer.

>> No.16087006

>>16086969
how is it being a lawyer? care to drop few redpills to another bizraeli who might be a lawyer in few years?

>> No.16087034

>>16086600
I do personal injury work- ambulance chaser stuff. Went to unacredited night school for total cost of $10,000. Work from home in pajama pants unless I have to go to court or a deposition. Grossed $127,000 my first year out. My worst year ever was $93,000.
I do my own SEO and online marketing, which is why I'm able to do it how I do. Most my competition thinks they have to spend $1,500 a month for a website, and $5,000 a month on an Adwords campaign, adn $45,000 a year on a secretary.
My overhead cost is $0.00. I have python scripts automating 85% of my document prep, which is all done via click of button from the admin page on my website - entire litigation file is generated. I'll need associate lawyers before I'd ever need a secretary. It's been cozy, but driverless cars will kill my practice. I'll have to swap over to criminal. Which is just a matter of rewriting my website.

>> No.16087065

>spend 6 figures to get a job in an industry that will work you to death in the best case scenario
>just as you get started smart contracts completely obviate the need for conveyancing lawyers
>could have just spent the 6 figures on Chainlink

>> No.16087073

>>16087006
I worked at a firm for two years. Hated my boss. Wanted to jump out the window every day. Billable hours is miserable.
Plaintiff's work was much more my speed. It's more a small business than a law practice. I do volume workers' comp and PI car wrecks. Mostly settlements. I try three or four a year.
I love referral fees. I market the whole state and refer cases too far away from me to fuck with. 18 months later a check for my portion of the attorney fee shows up in the mail.
Most lawyers are tech illiterate. You can create a competitive advantage for yourself by learning HTML/CSS and Python.

>> No.16087190

>>16087006
If you want to start your own practice, you're looking at Criminal, PI, Bankruptcy, Collections (maybe), immigration and Domestic.
Any other legal work is done with a firm of laywers billing by the hour and writing a fucking memo to the file for every step they take. The whole billable hour structure incetivized working all the fucking time. As much as you can. I personally rejected the fuck out of that business model. Fuck that.
PI is tough because you dont' get paid up front. You have to float the litigation costs, which can easily exceed $10,000 on a standard car wreck case; and then you don't get paid for 18 months or so. So, you have to be able to front your whole operation for at least 6 months.
The other practice areas I listed are easier to get started because you get paid in advacne (not collections, but you get paid much quicker than PI). Retainer billing is better. You bill off of your retainer and transfer the money at the end of the month. Much easier to get your feet of the ground. Problem is Domestic is messy as fuck and dominated by roasties and homosexual lawyers. Straight men are a minority. Bankruptcy and collections is boring and doc heavy. Criminal is entertaining if you don't mind associating with criminals. It's a lot of courtroom appearances, and is light on the briefs/motions part. More just talking and negotiating. And a lot of it is conducted at night, which I don't like. I prefer to go to court in the morning.
I very rarely get asked where I went to lawschool. It's more common for people to ask me if I passed the Bar the first time I took it (I did). Where you went to school only matters if you're trying to get a job at a work-your-life-away megafirm. Otherwise, pedigree is a waste of money. My humble Saul Goodman opinion.

>> No.16087221

>>16087034
Wtf is this a larp?

>> No.16087225

Hiring one or becoming one?

Hiring one is a requirement if you're in deep shit. Otherwise those who do it for free will get a bribe by the other party's paid lawyer and do a shitty job so you lose. It's the oldest trick in the book.

Becoming one is a shitty idea. It's extremely oversaturated and only a good idea if you have connections and a job lined up for you even before you start studying. Many many people will kill for an unpaid internship these days to have something to put in their resume.

>> No.16087246

I left out In-House council. If you're attending a fancy school with pedigree, then that opens up for you. I hear those jobs can be so comfy it's almost boring. No billable hours. No memos. No boss really, and a huge fucking salary to twiddle thumbs, and talk on the phone and read reports from your outside council. Had I gone to Harvard, that's what I'd be looking to do. That or something in Washington D.C. I wouldn't be looking to practice in the private sector If I had a J.D. from Harvard. I'd be looking at in-house, or Professor at a state school, or think-tank in D.C. Something like that. You don't want to live in the litigation trenches if you have an Ivy League JD.

>> No.16087258

>>16087034
>>16087073
>>16087190
Thanks for the insight. Right now it's between law and psychology for me. Both have their pros and cons. I think I'd like psychology more, but clinical psych basically requires a PhD, and acceptance rates for PhDs at any pedigree schools are like 3-5%. Plus it'll take me like 8 years before I begin to see anything even remotely resembling good pay. On the flip side, I legitimately think I'd enjoy helping PTSD victims out.

Law seems like the fast-track to a decent salary, but a lot of my attorney friends are fucking miserable and use all kinds of drugs to cope. But I think a lot of that comes from debt, which I don't have to worry about. I got lucky and have about $200k saved up from crypto, so with that I can do law school without paying much, but I really need to get a move on looking for a 'real job.'

>> No.16087270

>>16087221
Nope. I'm preparing responses to Interrogatories right now at home in my pajama pants. Python script already prepared my objections.

>> No.16087281

if you want to be a wagie and work your ass 12 hours everyday yes

lawyers are the niggers of law school

>> No.16087292

>>16086925
they went through shit together

>> No.16087295

>>16087258
You don't have to get the Phd, anon. Masters degree in pscyh gets you to your own practice. Marriage counselors in my city are pulling in $150 an hour, and the good ones are booked a month out.

>> No.16087320

>>16087295
Really? I didn't know that. Thank you, anon, you've given me something to think about.

I think at the end of the day, law for me would be more of a means to an end (money/prestige) whereas psychology has the sustainability of passion. I can see myself doing counseling even if I was a millionaire.

PS - What city do you live in?

>> No.16087329

OP how old are you? In a similar position except considering CS (being a code-monkey sucks)

feels bad starting at 22-23 when people around you have already graduated

>> No.16087350

>>16087329
I'm an oldfag. 28, spent the last decade getting my BA in meme-sci (poli-sci) and somehow, miraculously making a decent amount of cash from crypto.

But now I have a serious GF who wants me to find steady employment, which is understandable. Can't be starting a family on the pipe dream of Bitmex and leverage - I'd be the first to admit that I just got lucky.

>> No.16087356

>>16087258
>Law seems like the fast-track to a decent salary, but a lot of my attorney friends are fucking miserable and use all kinds of drugs to cope.
You get the good salary, but you're expected to work 80 hours for it. So, you're really working two jobs, adn when you divide your salary in half, to reflect to normal work week, you aren't making that much money.
A factory worker could do double shifts, pull the overtime wage, and make just as much or more money for the same amount of time spent working.

>> No.16087367

>>16087320
I'm in a major city in the South East.

>> No.16087394

>>16087329
Lol dude fuck knowing what I know now at 28, I'd be perfectly fine with going for a degree at this age. I started college at 17 not knowing much at all about the realities of the job market or what I was really interested in.

>> No.16087514

>>16087281
who are the patricians of law school then?

>> No.16087519

>>16087394
doesn't the thought of not having a steady income and falling behind gets you? Just feeling like a loser right now

It's the social repercussion that gets to me - if it weren't for going to uni would be pretty comfy

>> No.16087523
File: 79 KB, 386x661, wageslave.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
16087523

>>16087329
If I were you I'd go to one of those coding bootcamps (one of the good ones, where you don't pay until you get a high paying job and they actually have an incentive to find you a job) and start working freelance on the side until I could get enough knowledge to start a business.


https://www.thefastlaneforum.com/community/threads/foxs-2019-make-100k-starting-web-design-from-scratch-challenge.85753/
https://www.thefastlaneforum.com/community/threads/how-to-learn-code-start-a-web-company-15k-per-month-within-9-months.69971/

That's actually what I wanted to do when I was your age, but bootcamps aren't a thing in my country, CS degrees here are worthless and IT jobs are criminally underpaid.

In my opinion, spending four years of your life and getting into a ton of debt just to be considered fit to wageslave for a big corporation, when you can learn those same skills in less than a year, is the ultimate cuck. Degrees are only worth it if your plan is to wageslave for big corporations for the rest of your life. Otherwise they're worth very little. You can earn much MUCH more if you use your brain and go your own way. Especially if you're a white male because in corporate environment you are going to be discriminated against more and more with each passing year.

The choice is yours, this is just my educated opinion. Feel free to tell me if you disagree with any thing I've said and why.

>> No.16087539

>>16086676
smart contracts can be illegal.
they can also be overridden by judges.

>> No.16087582

>>16087523
I already program as a hobby but without a foundation in math and cs theory you simply don't have the capability to delve into interesting work and will be stuck stitching APIs together rest of your lives

a degree simply opens up lots of options, including research

>> No.16087599

>>16087073
What kind of leverage does programming offer in your daily routine? Genuinely asking
> t. ERP software dev

>> No.16087659
File: 29 KB, 370x355, that milf ass.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
16087659

>>16086600

>> No.16087685

>>16087582
well it appears I've just convinced myself
better late than never, uni's going to be lit

>> No.16087689

>>16087582
You have a point there. When I wrote the post I was thinking specifically about web development (even the links are about that). Programming is an entirely different creature and in that case it makes far more sense to go for a degree. I wish you luck in that.
>>16087539
So what?
>judge says it's illegal
Then what? Will that shut down the decentralized network of thousands of nodes distributed all over the planet enforcing the contract?
Will that shut down the decentralized network of thousands of oracle nodes triggering said contract?
Will that shut down the decentralized network of thousands of mining nodes for the currency that is being transferred as a payout for contract fulfillment?
Have you learned nothing from almost two decades of torrenting and P2P systems? Law doesn't mean shit anymore.

>> No.16087700

>>16087523
>Degrees are only worth it if your plan is to wageslave for big corporations for the rest of your life. Otherwise they're worth very little.
Mostly I agree with you. Especially the majority of Bachelor's degrees. But, some degrees are the ticket to opening a small business: Dermatology, Internal Medicine, Dentist, Podiatrist, Optometrist, Veterniarian, Lawyer, Architect, Psychiatry, Pharmacy, etc. You gain access to a protected guild. You only compete against other members of your licensed guild, and the pay rates are set by all of you, so that everyone makes money.
Other businesses have either been gobbled up by MultiNational corporations, or require tremendous capital and industry experience to successfully create.
With the licensed professional route, It's hard to suffer a debilitating work-related injury like the trades, you can do it until your 80 because your back isn't going to go out, and experience matters. Each year you get more business and more money. You gain "wisdom" and get paid more for it. They're also largely insulated from the ebb and flow of the national economy.
Most high-paying wage jobs are associated with age discrimination - Sales, Programming, Engineer, etc. Experience doesn't help you if your environment is constantly changing, and you constantly have to learn new things, and 25yr olds can do your job just as well as you can. You're a liablilty once you turn 40. If you haven't moved up the management ladder, you get replaced with something younger and cheaper as soon as there's a down year in the economy.

>> No.16087733

>>16086600
>Is the lawyer meme worth it?

If 8 years of college, $350K of student loans and 80 hour work weeks is what you're looking for, then it's worth it

>> No.16087744

>>16087700
What's your opinion on medicine as a viable trade? I gave some thought to the post-bacc pre-med route where you basically do 12 months in chem, biology, etc to get you up to speed for medical school.

But again, medical school acceptance rates are brutal, and if you can't get in, then you've just wasted 12 months and a load of money.

>> No.16087831

>>16087599
It's been a complete game changer. Python populates data fields in my form file. When I get a new file, I enter the particulars of each claim in as key values into a dictionary, and Python populates my entire litigation form file.
The defense lawyers always use the same discovery requests for every claim. Once an answer is filed, and I know who the defense lawyer is, I run the script again, and it creates a customized liitigation file based on what that particular defense lawyer typically files. All the way from discovery resopnses through trial and appeal. I have everything created at once. Every letter I typically write, subpoenas, all with the right information in it, proper adresses, proper date. Everything a secretary would do for me, I've automated.
Then I made a website with Django, and incorprated all m scripts into my admin page. So I can run it from my server database instead of my local machine.
Then I was spending a lot of time having to fuck with my clients, and resopnding to discovery requests. Even though I'd automated 85% of discovery, I still needed to know particular things from my clients about their personal history. So, I created client log-ins for my website. This gives them a personal calendar shwoing key dates, addresses, what judge, etc. I even put in Google Maps so they know how to get where they need to go and don't have to call me and ask.
They can upload files, and a copy of thier litigation file is available, so they dont' fuck with me as much.
But, more importantly, I created a form for them to complete that goes ahead and asks them everthing that's commonly asked in discovery, So, I have the answeres ready before I need them.
Now I'm trying to see if I can get some sort of AI to summarize new case decisions reported on Google Scholar to see if I can automate SEO content updates. Then I'll be playing vidya and golf when I don't have to go to court.

>> No.16087946

>>16087744
I don't know much to tell you about how hard it is to pull it off. But, my neighborhood has a lot of doctors and lawyers. Clinic doctors like dermatologits seem cozy as fuck. They're working 7:00 to 3:00 Mon-Thur with a ton of vacation time, and every holiday. No emergencies, no hospital rounds. Just toodling around a clinic looking at moles and prescribing acne medicine.
Other doctors are working their asses off - Surgeon, Oncologist, OBGYN.
They ones doing a clinic/surgery hybrid, like rotator cuff or carpal tunnel specialists, seem like they strike a good balance, and make a good income as a result, but can still enjoy the weekend. They just schedule all thier sugeries on like, Mon and Wed, and do clinic visits Tues and Thurs, play golf on Friday and fuck around with the kids on the weekends.

>> No.16087979

>>16087744
>But again, medical school acceptance rates are brutal, and if you can't get in, then you've just wasted 12 months and a load of money.
If that happens, you're a good candidate for pharma sales, which pays a ton. Just don't blow it all, because you'll be age discriminated out in your 40's. Try to figure out how to be an independent rep before you have kids and can afford to take the risk. That way you have your own clients, and you can't get laid off. You're still facing ageism though. It just won't all happen at once.

>> No.16087981

>>16086600
Nope, ATTERNeys are the apex of brainwashed professions.

>> No.16088027

>>16087689
>Then what?
then men with guns force you to manually transfer the fine to the state.
then men with guns take your house, declare the ownership token invalid and generate a new one.
then men with guns force you to give up your private key.
all crypto success stories (e.g. silk road) were solely based on the privacy crypto provides. the government couldn't stop it because it didn't know who used it, not because smart contracts override the law.
99% of smart contracts will obviously be not anonymous.

>> No.16088136

>>16087831
>>16087946
Wow, somebody on /biz/ with actual real world experience. I'm stunned.

>> No.16088160

>>16087034
Where did you learn all these computer programming skills? And secondly, wouldn't your computer skills make you a good candidate for working in legal tech or as a smart contract engineer or some such thing? Are you interested in that stuff?

>> No.16088345

>>16087523
im 27 no degree is there a chance for me?