/biz/ - Business & Finance

[Anonymous No.15520913]

If we go cashless then wouldn't "bartering" with precious metals be the solution to not being indentured to the information economy and the people manipulating it? Fucking shit. Now I have to do this crazy prepper bullshit like I'm some kind of gold bug.

Goddamn it /biz/.

[Anonymous No.15520952]

bartering is illegal lol

[Anonymous No.15520960]

>>15520952

1. The fuck are you that bartering is illegal?
2. How is anyone going to know you're bartering anyway?

[Anonymous No.15520966]

are preppers/goldbugs the stupidest people in the world? yes. the answer is yes

[Anonymous No.15520972]

>>15520966

That's part of why it's horrifying that they're holding so many of the cards by sheer happenstance.

[Anonymous No.15520987]

>>15520913
If metals are only facilitating the trade in illegal goods wouldn't it be a little suspicious to be caught with them?

[Anonymous No.15520990]

>>15520913
something about them really activates my ape almonds, won't be able to resist buying a bag of shiny rocks if the shills keep it up

[Anonymous No.15521020]

>>15520987

Ah, but they wouldn't be. That's the beauty of it. Plenty of people will be using these instead of swiping their cards. Thank god for right-wing nutters, preppers, and gold bugs. I never thought I'd type that phrase.

>>15520990

Don't you just want to horde the shiny rocks like they're princesses?

[Anonymous No.15521035]

>>15520913
cashless doesn't change anything you already should not use fiat for anything other than transactions and speculation.

there isn't going to be two legal systems they're not going to make owning gold illegal.
As long as you can own property there's nothing stopping you emancipating yourself, apart from yourself

[Anonymous No.15521047]

>>15521035

>cashless doesn't change anything
>should not use fiat for anything other than transactions and speculation

Explain yourself.

[Anonymous No.15521107]

>>15521020
>Plenty of people will be using these instead of swiping their cards. Thank god for right-wing nutters, preppers, and gold bugs
What do you mean by "plenty of people"? In whatever hypothetical cashless society you have in mind someone collecting gold is going to be signalling something sketchy's going on off the books.

[Anonymous No.15521108]

>>15520913
>If we go cashless then wouldn't "bartering"
No the economy will never go cashless. If you think about “notes” are promises to pay in something real like metals. There will be promissory notes again. In the past banks actually did ethical work and created these notes while storing the metals. There many different bank notes backed by gold in circulation before the fucking FED. Don’t panic about going back to dark ages that’s retarded fear mongering

[Anonymous No.15521143]

>>15521107

Evangelicals. Hippies. Hipsters who like shiny rocks. Millennials and Zoomers who are onto Zuckerberg's tricks.

>>15521108

>there will be promissory notes again

Why would I pay a bank a service fee to hold my shiny rocks for me?

[Anonymous No.15521145]

>>15521108
>In the past banks actually did ethical work and created these notes while storing the metals
You can still pay someone to hold your metal for you you don't need to transform banks into storehouses of physical commodities.

[Anonymous No.15521159]

>>15521143
>Evangelicals. Hippies. Hipsters who like shiny rocks. Millennials and Zoomers who are onto Zuckerberg's tricks.
So in you're hypothetical cashless society pretty much everyone is resorting to bartering.

[Anonymous No.15521165]

>>15521159

No. It will be largely a counterculture thing.

[Anonymous No.15521191]

>>15521165
Still a very significant amount. In an actual successful cashless society over time it would be so much cheaper to just go cashless only criminals would be looking for alternatives and it would draw attention to anyone without a digital trail

[Anonymous No.15521212]

>>15521047
fiat currency should be treated like a hot potato, it is guaranteed to loose all its value.
It's useful to transact in or gain more gold through speculative trading but if you hold your savings in gold you are who the federal reserve steals money from.

Even if measuring inflation in CPI wasn't a complete farce we already have negative interest rates if your interest rate is smaller than the inflation rate.

Gold is money, fiat is like transaction tokens. The real loss of purchasing power of the dollar averages 7% pa against gold. You shouldn't hold fiat for anything but transacting unless you are speculating.

[Anonymous No.15521226]

>>15521145
>You can still pay someone to hold your metal for >you you don't need to transform banks into >storehouses of physical commodities.
Your talking about storage where client pays for warehousing . I’m talking about banks holding PMs as backing for promissory notes that actually pay real interest. Real money . Not FIAT garbage,

[Anonymous No.15521243]

>>15521212
don't be Peter Schiff and just hoard gold though. Gold is money, everything changes relative to gold.

The same way if you're in the paradigm that fiat is money you wouldn't think it's a good idea to have everything in fiat

[Anonymous No.15521244]

>>15521191

You underestimate that a significant portion of people would resist such a system solely out of spite.

>>15521212

Fiat is what prevents banks from holding negative interest rates against savings. What needs to happen is for people to start viewing pms as a savings account.

[Anonymous No.15521303]

>>15521226
>I’m talking about banks holding PMs as backing for promissory notes that actually pay real interest. Real money . Not FIAT garbage,
Why would anyone pay you for storing your gold if the government isn't enforcing gold as legal tender? Banks don't need gold to make loans unless someone forces them to hold gold in reserve and audits them.

>>15521244
>You underestimate that a significant portion of people would resist such a system solely out of spite.
Than you don't have a true cashless system. You're just talking about where most people have gone cashless but not anywhere near everyone yet... although I think that's naive and it'll become to costly to stay out of the system eventually, it's just how long the transition takes.

[Anonymous No.15521322]

>>15521244
if you define purchasing power by CPI like a slave (as central banks want you to) cash doesn't prevent negative interest rates your money is already loosing purchasing power if your interest rate is lower than the inflation rate. which it probably is at the moment. Yes, cashless will allow a larger negative interest rate as inflation stays at 3% and interest rates could approach -100%. But you're already in the tyranny, you've been in it for 100 years.

The real redpill is that gold is the unit of value not CPI and fiat currency has lost around average 7% pa against gold for over 100 years amidst times where it lost 94% like between 1970 and 1980

[Anonymous No.15521343]

>>15521322
>if you define purchasing power by CPI like a slave (as central banks want you to)
OH NO NO NO

[Anonymous No.15521361]

>>15521322
you lost 43% of your purchasing power if you held fiat from 1933-1934
you lost 85% of your purchasing power if you held fiat from 2000-2012

any agreements denominated in fiat also experience these loses eg your salary

[Anonymous No.15521364]

>>15521303

They're talking about phasing out cash for "e-money" in banking circles right now.

>>15521322

Inflation is invisible to most people. Particularly to the kinds of people who keep cash in mattresses, safes, and under floor boards.

[Anonymous No.15521372]

>>15521361
I can make up a metric and claim you lost 10000% of you're purchasing power if you held gold from 2009-2019

[Anonymous No.15521380]

>>15521212
>but if you hold your savings in gold
meant to say hold your savings in fiat

[Anonymous No.15521388]

>>15521364
>They're talking about phasing out cash for "e-money" in banking circles right now.
We're almost there already. I keep a little cash on hand for misc purchases, but I've been electronic for years. I don't even have paper checks anymore, just electronic payments.

[Anonymous No.15521399]

>>15520913
question how athiests explain the push towards cashless and the growing censorship culture coming about now, just a coincidence that the bible mentioned this?

[Anonymous No.15521416]

>>15521388

It's still denominated in fiat and you can make withdrawals. See this guy here >>15521399

Definitely going to be one of the hold outs.

[Anonymous No.15521436]

If the only reason you invest in metals is to doomsday prep, you're dumb.

It is a hedge against hyper inflation for your savings. That's it.

[Anonymous No.15521461]

>>15521416
you expect me to take that shit after it was probably the clear parts of the bible
no man shall buy or sell unless they have the mark.

people are now being banned from papal or chase for wrongthink,can no one draw that trendline.
once they push the technology and ideology to its logical solution?

[Anonymous No.15521490]

>>15521143
>>Why would I pay a bank a service fee to hold my shiny rocks for me?
You wouldn’t they would issue /pay you in promissory notes you can either spend / loan earn interest on or redeem. Him with gold makes the rules. For 6000 years or so lol

[Anonymous No.15521494]

>>15521372
how can you loose more than 100% you brainlet.

CPI is a subjective index of consumer goods that change every year. Objective measurements of consumer goods are things like moores law. Debasing currency against exponentially against CPI is the most tyrannical, insane monetary policy in human history.
it's like measuring a field with a yardstick that got shorter each year and believing the field was getting longer.
It's like going to a gym where they make the kilogram lighter every month and you believe you're getting stronger.
It's like your employer changing lengthening the definition of an hour so you stay at work longer each day believing you were ther for the same amount of time.
A unit of measurement is defined as something that doesn't change with respect to the independent variable this is the opposite of what CPI is.

Gold is the unit of value because all things value change relative to gold because of its physical properties

>>15521361
look at the image here. Everyone knows up until 71 the dollar was pegged to amounts of gold as is reflected in the horizontal prices on chart on the right. Believing CPI is the unit of value would have you believing the price of gold was $600 an ounce in 1925 when it was literally defined as $25 an ounce in 1925. CPI is absolute madness

[Anonymous No.15521562]

>>15521490
No one needs to pay you for the privilege of holding your gold, banks can make loans without storing any physical commodity in any vault. Governments historically had a weird gold fetish and imposed rules that regulated how banks work.

>>15521494
>A unit of measurement is defined as something that doesn't change with respect to the independent variable this is the opposite of what CPI is.
>Gold is the unit of value because all things value change relative to gold because of its physical properties
Dude, the value of gold also changes over time, it's value is variable. Before 1971 all what the government did was promised to exchange a dollar for a fixed amount of gold (to foreigners and big institutions). Currency pegs always fail and that one did to when the government had to keep financing the Vietnam war beyond the constraints the "gold standard" imposed.

[Anonymous No.15521572]

>>15521303
>Why would anyone pay you for storing your gold >if the government isn't enforcing gold as legal >tender?
That’s the system we have now.

If currency became PM backed again they would effectively pay you because they issue you promissory notes you can loan out / earn interest on. Real interest . Market rate interest not the manipulated fake Fed rates we have now.

[Anonymous No.15521587]

>>15521562
>the value of gold also changes over time
it changes the least, and it changes as a function of the economy meaning it is the value datum. It is the only way to measure changes in value with respect to time.
that is why gold becomes money in all civilizations across time, independently, because there is an evolutionary advantage in pricing things correctly as you can more efficiently allocate resources.

[Anonymous No.15521613]

>>15521562
>Governments historically had a weird gold fetish
That “fetish” was called “backed” currency . Backed / redeemable by something scarce like a PM. Thats what’s been real moneyf or 6000 years until 1973 when they removed the gold standard and the value of the dollar has declined been inflated away. It will eventually become like Argentina/ Venezuela/ Zimbabwe currency

[Anonymous No.15521632]

>>15521613
>It will eventually become like Argentina/ Venezuela/ Zimbabwe currency
yup
at least we will get hot bitches

[Anonymous No.15521661]

>>15520913
i do wonder are extremely wealthy families holding hundreds of thousands in gold?

[Anonymous No.15521668]

>>15521572
> If currency became PM backed again they would effectively pay you because they issue you promissory notes you can loan out / earn interest on. Real interest . Market rate interest not the manipulated fake Fed rates we have now.
If currency became "PM backed again" you'd have bigger things to worry about than interest rates.

>>15521587
>it changes the least, and it changes as a function of the economy meaning it is the value datum. It is the only way to measure changes in value with respect to time.
If you follow its value throughout the 20th century that's obvious bullshit.

>that is why gold becomes money in all civilizations across time, independently, because there is an evolutionary advantage in pricing things correctly as you can more efficiently allocate resources.
Obviously gold became money historically because of its physical properties. 2000 years ago you didn't have the data processing like you do today and pricing things relative to gold doesn't somehow magically "more efficiently allocate resources".

>>15521613
Nixon getting off the gold standard was one of the smartest moves ever. Argentina/Venezuela/Zimbabwe all had large debts accumulated in FOREIGN currencies (primarily USD) which was their problem (besides being corrupt and little respect for private property).

[Anonymous No.15521680]

>>15521661
Prince had $800k worth of gold, though it didn't do him much good in the end.

[Anonymous No.15521716]

>>15521668
you measure value in usd, it is completely meaningless.
imagine trying to model projectile motion if the value of the meter was changing with respect to the feds CPI.
It always amazes me how you can literally explain this to people and they will reject it, dooming themselves to wage slavery.

[Anonymous No.15521739]

>>15521716
When you go into McDonald's do you really ask how many oz's of gold that burger's going to cost you?

[Anonymous No.15521753]

>>15521739
no. But how about this

[Anonymous No.15521779]

>>15521753
What's your point?

[Anonymous No.15521802]

>>15521779
the amount wealth that has been stolen from people via keynesian monetary policy implemented by a unelected private bank beholden to no arm of government or the constitution

[Anonymous No.15521811]

>>15520913

>there are unironically people dumb enough in 2019 to buy into the PM, muh collapse scenario

I miss when it was just Paultards. Enjoy your shadow inflation

[Anonymous No.15521822]

>>15521753
Which only proves that gold is over-priced. If you're going to pick an arbitrary date of 1925 to determine what the "proper" Salary/Gold rate should be, then gold should only be $184/oz

> inb4: moron ... I know what you are going to say and what you were saying originally, I'm just using this lark as a way of pointing out the problem with picking arbitrary numbers out of thin air when attempting to support a position.

[Anonymous No.15521823]

>>15521343

>zero responses

[Anonymous No.15521830]

>>15521802
>the amount wealth that has been stolen from >people via keynesian monetary policy >implemented by a unelected private bank >beholden to no arm of government or the >constitution
BASED and REDPILLED

[Anonymous No.15521850]

>>15521802
What "stolen wealth"? It seems you're just butthurt you can't exchange a dollar for a promised fixed amount of gold. The only time people at the Fed had much identification with "keynesian monetary policy" (a dumb version) was between the 40-70's. You're not claiming someone like Paul Volcker was a Keynesian are you? Real Keynesianism is about FISCAL policy firstly not just playing around with interest rates and money supply. Also if the president wants he can bully the Fed all he wants.

[Anonymous No.15521867]

>>15521850
Doesn’t understand money . Nothing can be done here. This NPC could even pass for that retard Krugman

[Anonymous No.15521872]

>>15521822
that chart is showing you the average salary in 1925 was 253 ounces of gold
whereas someone earning 253 ounces of gold today (~$379k) is well above 99th percentile income
Todays average salary is 38 ounces of gold.

the cause of all societal problems is debasement
there has never been a civilization that debases its currency against a subjective index of consumer goods to maximise the employment of its citizens. It is fucking madness.

>>15521823
the answer is the pic here >>15521361
Believing CPI is the unit of value would have you believing the price of gold was $600 an ounce in 1925 when it was literally defined as $25 an ounce in 1925. CPI is absolute madness

[Anonymous No.15521875]

>>15521850
People also tend to forget that the dollar was only pegged to gold since 1944, and only until 1971

[Anonymous No.15521881]

>>15521850
Imagine being this much of a cuck that you willingly let a "bank" take your money and you actually defend it.

[Anonymous No.15521906]

>>15521850
>>15521881
Hes either salty because he has no stacks or he’s actually a retard

[Anonymous No.15521908]

>>15521850
the wealth stolen by inflation
>It seems you're just butthurt you can't exchange a dollar for a promised fixed amount of gold
no. I am trying to explain to you the tyranny of defining value by CPI.
No one needs a gold standard, all you need to do is measure value in gold

>>15521875
completely false

[Anonymous No.15521910]

>>15521881
> arbitrary numbers on a piece of paper bad
> arbitrary value of a random piece of metal good

Can't have it both ways.

[Anonymous No.15521923]

>>15521872

I had no idea the ratio of gold to dollars (wage) in 1925 was the measurement point we should use

>inb4 it’s just an example

The value of gold and the dollar, as well as the ratio changes constantly

[Anonymous No.15521929]

>>15521910
golds purchasing power can't be altered by a central bank

[Anonymous No.15521934]

>>15521910
The metal is tangible and nobody can just wipe it's value away with the press of a button. Stay poor and delusional.

[Anonymous No.15521939]

>>15521850
here.

Wealth is consistently being created. New machines = new assets / wealth.
Money is tokenized time in which someone puts their hours towards a job and is compensated for it. Money also allows you store the value that was created, and use it to purchase something later.
Currency is something we use to dictate the value of something in relation to the market. Currency would be a store of value if it would have a fixed total.
Purchasing power is how much you can get with your MONEY.

The currency you get now has a lower purchasing power than the MONEY you received in gold pegged era.

^^^ IS HOW THEY STOLE THE WEALTH.

[Anonymous No.15521960]

>>15521908
Maybe a switch and recalibration isn’t for five more years....it will happen in under 15. Gold stacking is a long term savings account that won’t devalue. We stack because we see a system designed to force communism. We don’t do that in USA.
What happens when too many people say no more?

[Anonymous No.15521977]

>>15521929
Only by the speculators and the COMEX traders. If the London OTC price guides the price of gold around the world (which it does), and 99.9% of COMEX futures are settled in cash instead of physical delivery (which they are), what does that say to the concept that the price of gold is controlled by anything other than the whims of the speculators and the very wealthy?

>>15521934
Hate to break it to you, but I'm neither.

[Anonymous No.15522015]

>>15521923
The 1925 wage is just one point on the graph. The graph shows the collapse of value in the us dollar as was designed by the monetary policy of federal reserve debasing the currency to make you poor so you can't stop working.
I put the example in there because people obviously don't magnitude of the wealth stolen from them from the graph.
We do not need to define value with cpi, it is slavery it is what the USA was built to stop.

>>15521960
you don't necessarily need to own gold, you need to measure price in gold. gold is money.
The fed has no control it is only up to people whether they want to define value as cpi or with gold.

>>15521977
why is this even an argument when central banks literally tell you they make the currency worth less against consumer goods each year.
Like maybe we could argue about silver vs gold as money or platinum vs gold but how the fuck does anyone believe the usd is a reasonable measure of value over time
Imagine if the builder of your house increased the definition of the meter each week and told you your new house wasn't sloping from where he started building to where he finished.

If you just appeared on earth this second would you measure wealth with this thing called cpi that changes every year or would you find an objective measure of value.

[Anonymous No.15522020]

>>15521934
This
Perfect

[Anonymous No.15522026]

>>15521960
Amen brother. You got my vote for office!