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1533118 No.1533118 [Reply] [Original]

Why is gold valueable? I mean, why is gold overvalued by being a safe harbor currency regarding it's technical value. Why is gold a safe harbor currency? Isn't this like a big scam?

If your answer is "because it's rare" or "because it's shiny" please leave this thread.

>> No.1533135

>>1533118
Why is dollar valueable? I mean, why is dollars overvalued by being a safe harbor currency regarding it's technical value. Why is dollars a safe harbor currency? Isn't this like a big scam?

>> No.1533147

>>1533118
self-fulfilling prophecy.

basically it's valuable because everyone thinks it is.

also it's pretty, durable and rare.
like diamonds.

>> No.1533156

Gold is a useful and therefore valuable material in many industries.

and it's incredibly rare. finding one single ounce of gold will make you $1,300 richer. Good fucking luck.

>> No.1533162

>>1533156
>and it's incredibly rare
hundred billions of tons of gold on earth alone it's not exactly rare anon. some estimate about 1% of our worlds mass is gold.

>> No.1533185

>>1533118
network affect, same reason funny green paper is valuable

but both are shit vs bitcoin :^)

>> No.1533188

>>1533162

but the problem is that it is not that easy to dig up in large quantities. Things that are very hard to get or to produce are expensive. The other problem with gold is that so much of it lies in some god damn vaults and is unusable and another big part is in jewelry -> almost unusable

guess the main value of gold is that it in fact is shiny and not minable in very large quantities and so the people adapted it as a very valuable good (in the middle ages only kings had gold because it looked fancy af)

>> No.1533227

as the anon above me

it's hard to produce
has some uses

does not degrate over time

you could store value in potatoes or porsches for a while

it goes back to ancient times

it has always been the money on this planet

its was easier to exchange than direct barter

nowadays it's just another comodity

gold market is rigged

its still good to have some though

>> No.1533302

>>1533156

There's a lot of elements that are just as rare or more rate. Plus being useful.

>> No.1533307

Because people like gold (demand) and there isn't that much of it available (supply). It's basic economics don't complicate it.

>> No.1533319

>>1533118
because gold has magic powers to grant the bearer, immense riches

>> No.1533320

World's first Bitcoin in physical form. Rare, impossible to forge, can represent large amounts of money in relatively small packages. Gold was only useful before the digital banking system existed. I don't think of it as currency anymore. Its just useful in making electronics. The only reason its still expensive is the historical value which is very hard to shake off in a few decades.

>> No.1534283

>>1533147
gold is not durable

>> No.1534298

>>1533188
>guess the main value of gold is that it in fact is shiny and not minable in very large quantities
artificial scarcity really
and also the greatest value of gold is the resistance to corrosion while also be a decent conductor.

>> No.1534303

>>1534283
it doesn't burn, it doesn't rust or oxidize, it's hard to dissolve in acid, it doesn't react with anything under normal conditions, if it melts you can always recast it, it doesn't shatter or break, it never changes its state of matter in normal conditions, it's easy to keep pure, it's dense which makes it easy to control, it's impossible to forge since its a pure element, etc, etc.

gold is pretty fucking durable. it being soft doesn't mean it's not durable.

>> No.1534315

its not gold that is valuable, its just a MEDIUM of trade that cannot be replicated, its not abundant, it doesn't degrade, and is malleable.

rather than carrying a two thousand baked pies to trade for a cow, you trade a sack of gold coins for the cow. That guy you traded with will then go and buy some tools and medicine or get some service from some hooker down the street.

resources are valuable as well as assets. like a car or plow. land is valuable. water is valuable.
consume and breed.
humans are livestock.

>> No.1534318

>>1533118

It is because it is rare. There's literally nothing more to it. Why was gold picked over anything else back when fiat currency didn't exist? Because it was rare and it looked cool. Human beings are very superficial, visual beings. Gold is rare and looks good, therefore it was universally considered valuable.

>> No.1534459

>>1533118
Rarity, expense of extraction from rock, lots of uses, general non-reactability, expense of storage.

It's not actually that valuable compared to other metals like, say, plutonium. But you can bury it in the ground for thousands of years and it doesn't change.

>> No.1534638

>>1534283
platinum is more rare and pretty god damn tough if that is what you are looking for.

>> No.1534656

because the entire history of humanity is more important than what some shitstain thinks about gold

>> No.1534697

>>1534638
but really boron is where it's at 9/10 hardness on mohs scale extremely rare on cosmic scale why the fuck are we not making money out of it?

>> No.1534708

>>1534303
This. Back in the day there was no other material that was like this. Also its distinct colour meant it could be used to flaunt wealth.

>> No.1534719

>>1534303
not to mention you can alloy it to increase the hardness.

>> No.1534769
File: 56 KB, 400x267, gold-silver-old-coins-13798589.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1534769

Force of habit maybe, it's always been regarded throughout history as a wealth standard.

It IS rare, regardless of what OP says
It is useful in computing technology
It is extremely malleable and dense
It is fungible.
It doesn't corrode ever.

That said, Silver is even rarer than gold these days, and it is even more useful in industry and computing, though it does corrode.

Silver is massively undervalued to be honest.

>> No.1534783
File: 113 KB, 900x900, core.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1534783

>>1533162
Over 90% of those hundred billion tons is in the core of the earth. Good luck mining that.

>> No.1534810

>>1534783
true.
of the remaining ~10%, almost all of it is dissolved in the oceans. Good luck mining that as well.

>> No.1534944

>>1534810
>dissolved in the oceans. Good luck mining that

Electrolysis.
Tidal/wind/solar energy.
Why aren't we doing this?

>> No.1534953

>>1533118

I am a gold hoarder and also a futures trader who trades mostly gold. Gold has several unique properties that make it ideal as a store of value.

1. It is universally recognized as being valuable by every peoples who have come in contact with it. Even before the Inca and the Spaniards made contact in the new world, they both recognized gold as being of value in their respective cultures even though it had no functional use.

2. Gold has unique physical properties such as its density that much it harder to fake. It also doesn't deteriorate or tarnish over time like other metals and materials do.

3. Gold requires resources to mine and pull it out of the earth, which limits the supply and ensures its value. Similar to how bitcoin requires solving increasingly complex algorithms.

>> No.1534957

>>1534944
your anodes and cathodes would cost more than the gold you'd harvest, you'd have to alter the chemistry of the ocean to make it work, most of what you'd get is base metals, and it would kill every living thing in the ocean and eventually the planet.

also the price of gold is dependent on its rarity, so if you produce millions of tons of it from the core or an asteroid or the oceans you'll flood the market, drop the price, and bankrupt yourself for your efforts.

look at the history of aluminum. It used to be rarer and more valuable than gold.

>> No.1534974

Gold is redeemable in sex. Jewlery is how men won over women since we invented it.

>> No.1534997

>>1533118
Gold can be used as a conductor in electric components I think. So, it's useful and people use it so some people need it for things that they want to make.

>> No.1535004

>>1533118
Because it's rare and shiny.

>> No.1535005

>>1533118
What's wrong with "it's shiny" being a reason to assign something value?

Go find a gold nugget and tell me it doesn't put a big fucking smile on your face.

>> No.1535561

>>1534783
depends on how you define core it's not a tranquil little ball of hot metal. gold comes pretty close to the surface often enough.

>> No.1535563

>>1534769
>Silver is massively undervalued to be honest.
i agree, that is why i bought when it was $15

>> No.1535577

>>1533118
Gold has unique properties:

- its malleable enough to where you can make interesting jewelry out of it
-it has a VERY LOW oxidation(rust) rate
- it is often used in electonics because of the above


as for why its valuable otherwise; its a semi rare mineral that was used as a replacement for the barter system . If we were to go back to the barter system it would fundamentally change business

>> No.1535585

>>1535577
This. It's used a ton in electronics. Gold plated connectors, gold plated PCB's, ... PCB's use copper (which is also expensive albeit not as expensive as gold) for the conductive traces, but copper corrodes. Hence some plating of the PCB is required. This can be done with HASL which is basically a solder coating of the PCB or through gold plating. HASL is not suitable for fine pitch components and BGAs (ballg grid arrays) because it is difficult to get an even plating.

As for connectors it's basically the same thing except connectors get extra wear through repeated insertion. Gold is pretty durable in the sense that the conductivity is very high and therefore the contact between two connectors is much better.

>> No.1535595

>>1533118
As Jim Rogers puts it: It is valuable because of the psychology of investors (yes I know there's some industrial uses for gold, but they are not the mean reason), there's no reason for giving privileges to gold over other commodities.

>> No.1535604
File: 253 KB, 1200x896, ^9FD7C0D5D9AD7CBA4AC1CAFD9EE823BCB41C45286F105F85A1^pimgpsh_fullsize_distr.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1535604

>>1534769
is silver actually rarer though?
like is there more silver on earth than gold?

i love gold
pic related its my gold

>> No.1535606

>>1535604
Yes. It is rarer and from the industry point of view more useful, plus in most of its applications silver is irreplaceable.

>> No.1535608

Best conductor that's stable. Is easiest to manipulate which allows crazy applications.

>> No.1535613

Because people agree that it is valuable

>> No.1535620

>>1535606
>Update
just researched it, silver is 17.5x more abundant in the earths crust, just more gold is mined.

that doesnt mean silver is rarer than gold, it just means people want it less (because its more abundant and not as quite as interesting)

>> No.1535657

>>1535620
silver is rare right now because mining was unprofitable due to suppressed price (it's pushed down every day like clockwork by market manipulators).

>> No.1535693

>>1535604
Man I love gold coins. Truly lustworthy.

>> No.1535694

http://kissmanga.com/Manga/Investor-Z/Chapter-154?id=322844

Even chinese comics know it anon

>> No.1535724
File: 96 KB, 808x706, coin2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1535724

>>1535604
ooh, gold show-off thread? i'm in!

here's my baby. 20 ounces. only 6027 were minted to commemorate 20 years of Vienna Philharmoic bullion coins. Bought it in 2009 at EUR ~15.5k (14k gold + 10% mark-up). Today the gold alone is over EUR 23k. Not that I'm planning to sell or anything...

i'm a coin collector and as such i usually pass on bullion, but this was just too good of an opportunity. i'm in it for the fun mostly, not really trying to make a profit. my collection is over 2 kg of gold, which would be a stupidly high % of my portfolio if i treated it as an investment.

>> No.1535919

>>1534957
You could probably exploit other commodities from that as well. Like electrolysing ship hulls off and selling them back to the shipyard, atom by atom.

>>1535604
Silver is way way way more useful. It's used in electronics because it's malleable and has high conductivity.

>> No.1535935

>>1533118
Just convince everyone that bottle caps are a mch better currency and that worked out great in Fallout.

>> No.1536970

>>1533188
>(in the middle ages only kings had gold because it looked fancy af)
How about golden coins?

>> No.1537000

>>1533118
Try google nigger. Gold is the standard of wealth because its shiny, malleable, is notoriously unreactive so can be stored for long periods as well as rare.

>> No.1537006

>>1535724
>gold show off
people in biz are broke as fuck anon, probably only a few have gold collections.

>> No.1537008

>>1533162
Well if it was too rare then it wouldnt be much good as currency if nobody had any

>> No.1537011

>>1533185
Not true. Gold was deemed valuable independently by every developing civilization

>> No.1537018

>>1534697
Gold is bright yellow. Pretty easy to tell the difference between a gold nugget and a lump of rock. You cant expect a 2nd century farmer to discern boron from other grey rocks

>> No.1537041

Gold and Silver will be more valuable in the near future because a lot of countries are doing away with physical cash.

Gold and Silver are the only logical replacements for buying and selling illegal drugs, not buttcoin.

>> No.1537046

>>1537041
>doing away with cash
>in the near future
Not in your lifetime bub

>> No.1537049

>>1533118
It's durable, its supply cannot be radically increased easily, historically had minimal use other than to be valuable, and its an element so cutting it in half nearly infinite times doesn't destroy it. plus it can be recombined.

...plus it's rare. makes sense to me. if not, give a better example as a STORAGE of wealth.

>> No.1537172

>>1534318
>Gold is rare and looks good, therefore it was universally considered valuable.
See:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rai_stones
Same thing. Rocks that look good and are made of rare material.

>> No.1538205

>>1533118

Gold is fucking useless to me. The only reason to have it is because somewhere some schmuck will give me things I actually want for it because we wants a pretty teacup or whatever.

>> No.1538246

>>1533147
>diamonds
>rare
Someone hasn't done their research...

>> No.1538252

Flesh of the gods

>> No.1538255

>>1538246
we mine far more gold every year than we do diamonds.

nice job falling for the contrarian counterpropaganda though. Monopolies are bad, huh? and you're super smart because you'd never buy diamonds! You're very clever.

>> No.1538275

>>1538255
>we mine far more gold every year than we do diamonds.
By design, because the monopoly you mentioned has artificially inflated the price of diamonds by limiting their mining and production.

>nice job falling for the contrarian counterpropaganda though
>Monopolies are bad, huh?
>and you're super smart because you'd never buy diamonds! You're very clever.
OH, you're shilling for De Beers! Carry on, then - sorry to cut into your commission.

>> No.1538279

>>1538275
>the monopoly you mentioned has artificially inflated the price of diamonds by limiting their mining and production.
kek

google how many kimberlite pipes exist in the world, "research" guy.

>> No.1538292

Here's a very interesting documentary The Secret World of Gold
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dt7hTCeoXUM

>> No.1538297

>>1538279
As far as I'm seeing we (that is, the human race) keep finding more and more sources of diamonds every year and have been since the 1870's. The discovery of kimberlite pipes has increased the world's source of diamonds, not limited it.

And guess who owns every single mine and kimberlite pipe worthy of commercial production?

So how are diamonds still expensive as fuck if our source of gemstone diamonds has only every increased and the number of countries producing gemstone diamonds is ever-expanding?

Congratulations, Mr. Shill - you got me to go on a wild goose chase after information I already had. Go ahead - I'm waiting for more "You don't know what your talking about!" shilling.

>> No.1538301
File: 40 KB, 640x480, Edelmetalle.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1538301

>>1533118
>Why is gold valueable?
Most iconic of the noble metals, doesn't form a patina , so doesn't tarnish with age, your gold statue will look the same one day from now or 100000+years from now

>> No.1538329

>>1538297
no, it's ok.
having worked in both gold mines and diamond mines I know you're full of shit because:
1. constantly expanding production doesn't mean it's not rare. Going from 2 working diamond mines to 200 still makes them about 1000 times less common than gold mines.

2. diamonds are significantly more expensive to mine because we can't just dissolve them, crush them up and melt them, or crush them up and float them.

but I get tired of you being an idiot just to defend your previous idiocy. It would be cool if you came up with some outrageous new stupidity, but honestly your arguments are pathetic and not entertaining. So I'm going to cut you loose.

unless you can think of something REALLY stupid to say, then I'll keep reading.

>> No.1538339

>>1538329
>you're wrong because you're stupid
>p-please buy more diamonds
Sure thing, pal. Sure thing.

>So I'm going to cut you loose.
So in one breath you keep going on about how I'm wrong, yet graciously "cut me loose". Doesn't look like I'm so wrong if you're giving up that easy.

But hey I get it - kids that aren't yours to feed, miserable wife to please, non-existant sex life to get back to...you go get 'em tiger!
;^)

>> No.1538344

>>1533156
Silver has more uses and industrial application

>> No.1538357
File: 251 KB, 1200x1327, world-commodities-map-europe_536bab54da5b3_w1200.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1538357

>>1538255
De beer's artificially inflated diamond prices by hoarding diamonds and diamond mines for literal centuries with their monopoly, you don't know shit

>> No.1538368 [DELETED] 
File: 45 KB, 408x347, 72603electherma_00000050743.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1538368

>>1538344
In many cases necessitated from gold's rareness relative to silver
In most applications gold is better than silver, except gold is almost twice as dense as silver (could be good or bad depending on the application), silver conducts electricity (not heat) better, and silver melts at lower temperatures than gold

>> No.1538370

>>1538357
so now that their monopoly is broken we're mining more diamonds than gold?

Last year the world produced 135.5m carats of gem diamonds, which is 60k lbs.

we mined 6 million lbs of gold.

We mined 100 times more gold than diamonds. And gold is considered rare. By any definition gem diamonds are even more rare by orders of magnitude.

>> No.1538375

>>1538370
>We mined 100 times more gold than diamonds.
Again, by design. Looking at production numbers doesn't change the fact that De Beers is sitting on untouched sources of diamonds to artificially keep the price of their product high.

>> No.1538389

The fuctionality of gold is purely astral. Now before you nay say grab a piece of metal and pretend it's like your hand and then pretend your body is like the metal. It's cross transferrence of electrical energy.

>> No.1538392
File: 277 KB, 2069x1562, relative_abundance_of_chemical_elements.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1538392

>>1538370
>Last year the world produced 135.5m carats of gem diamonds, which is 60k lbs.
Gem diamonds are shit, they make up less than 20% of all diamonds produced, most is industrial diamonds used for cutting and abrasion

And implying gem diamonds produced is the same as raw diamond mined is akin to declaring the tonnage of wooden furniture produced yearly is equal to total timber harvest
A raw material is not the same thing as a finished good

>> No.1538394

>>1538357
the world is a pretty big place, are you sure they have literally every diamond mine in the entire world

>> No.1538442

>>1538392
ok, so just taking your word for it,
total diamond production would be 300k lbs counting industrial diamonds

vs. 6000k lbs of gold. Still not even close.

>> No.1538446

>>1538392
>And implying gem diamonds produced is the same as raw diamond mined is
I said gem diamonds MINED, not produced.

they weigh them before they're cut, too.

>> No.1538451

>>1537011
You are wrong.

>> No.1538751

>>1533118
>because it's rare
Supply

>because it's shiny
Demand

You answered your own question.

Dumbarse etc.

>> No.1541046

>>1533162
All the gold we have dug fits a 30x30 meter cube

>> No.1541055

>>1541046
it's absurdly dense though.
I think a ton of gold fits in a cube of just over 1 foot per side.

>> No.1541112

>>1541055
19.30 g/cm3
I'm not calculating that though

>> No.1541700

>>1541055
>>1541112
https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100805025053AAvfLwB

>> No.1541719

>>1538451

No, you are wrong. See what I did there? Any 12 year old can say "no, you are wrong" but it doesn't mean shit unless you can give evidence to back up your statement.

>> No.1541933

>>1533118
Not easy to find, durable, easily breaks down into smaller parts, etc

Gold is the ideal upon which all other currencies are based, and if all other currencies fail, gold will always be there

Gold is our friend

>> No.1542616

>>1533118
Because you have to pay for machines, employees, energy n shiet.

It's extremely expensive to get fresh gold

>> No.1542824

An oz of gold had roughly the same spending power in ancient Rome as it does today.

Thus gold is money because it is an effective store of value

The same can not be said about the US dollar, which loses 2% of its value every year, and its value is only determined by faith in the US government

>> No.1544632

Is it a stupid idea to buy a few small gold coins and bars as a rainy day fund?
I plan to accumulate enough to pay for a few months' rent and food, and hide it in a safe place, in case my bank account is raided / stolen.

>> No.1544744

I lost $2,500~ today. This sucks.

>> No.1544790

>>1541112
0.0193kg * 3000cm ^ 3 = 521.1m tonnes

>> No.1544815

>>1542616
So is gold the real world bitcoin?

>> No.1544820
File: 34 KB, 769x733, IMG_0913.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1544820

>If your answer is "because it's rare" or "because >it's shiny" please leave this thread.

>> No.1544832

Find me a paper note from the 19th century that retained its value.

Find me a gold ring from the 19th century that retained its value

See the difference? You need skillful investors or traders outperforming other people over several generations to win with the paper money. With the gold ring you only need people who keep possession of it over several generations. It's low risk and low return.

>> No.1544922

Where can I sell gold anonymously in Europe, at a decent rate (i.e. not the shady pawn shop near the train station)?
Amsterdam?

>> No.1544939

>>1536970

Almost entirely in the hands of noblemen or very successful merchants. Most transactions for normal people were carried out using silver coinage, barter or credit.

>> No.1545580

>>1544815
no not really.
Bitcoins have an exact amount and the bitcoins created are at a stable rate.

If you're lucky you find a lot of gold, if you're unlucky you wasted just a ton of money.

>> No.1545623

>>1534944
Better to sell the energy than to use it to make gold.