/biz/ - Business & Finance

[Anonymous No.15175838]

>7 year ROI
>provides further insulation for the roof from sun rays
>lasts at least 20 years, with more years at lower efficiency
Yeah I'm thinking it's based

[Anonymous No.15175928]

>7 year ROI
absolute piece of shit

[Anonymous No.15175962]

>>15175928
this
bait thread

[Anonymous No.15175968]

>7 year ROI
what is this, the next LINK?

[Anonymous No.15175996]

>>15175838
please do the math for the 7 years

[Anonymous No.15176007]

>>15175838
Not buying until 1 year roi

[Anonymous No.15176025]

DR;NS

[Anonymous No.15176071]

>>15175838
If there was a 7 year ROI on panels, every hedge fund would be using them, and making billions.

[Anonymous No.15176132]

>>15176071
No, because it is like saying I invest in a stock and 7 years later they give me the same money I started with back. There is no return.

[Anonymous No.15176314]

>>15176132
what about the other 15 years of free electricity?

[sleekmouse No.15176365]

>>15176314
These guys are brainlets bro. Wasting your finger joints

[Anonymous No.15176561]

Spending the money now, as the dollar inflates, might be a smart idea. You lower your electricity bill forever, in future dollars which will have inflated and it'll take a lot of dollars to keep the lights on compared to how much it cost to out the panels in.

[Anonymous No.15176573]

>>15176314
They use the electricity saved when calculating ROI. Anyway factored in.

[Anonymous No.15176621]

Your solar system will probably outlast your roof, guess what that means faggot? you have to pay the installation price at least twice! loL! and that warranty usually doesnt include the inverter so have fun replacing that half way through adding thousands of more dollars to your costs. is you roof even ready to handle another 5-6 lbs of weight on it? how about when there's 2 feet of snow on it?

tldr; quit being a faggot and go all in link like the rest of the niggers shitting up this board

[Anonymous No.15176684]

>>15176025
based drns

[Anonymous No.15176843]

>>15175838
Fcking brainlet. 7 years to break even. If u sell ur house before year 7, u can’t even bring it with u. Would u prepay 7 years of electricity? Can you guarantee power supply generation tech won’t improve in the next 7 years? Fcking scam

[Anonymous No.15177421]

if your electricity is expensive roi can happen even sooner in some cases under 4 years. if not you can invest in solar on The Sun Exchange. they claim you get a 10% yearly return

[Anonymous No.15177552]

>>15176007
give it 2 years:
https://phys.org/news/2019-07-carbon-nanotube-device-channels.html

[Anonymous No.15177755]

>>15177552

>Rice University scientists are designing arrays
>Rice University scientists
>Rice University
>Rice

Ching chong ling long ping pong

[Anonymous No.15177840]

>>15175838
Depends on weather conditions in your area. Solar doesn't really work here for half the year.

[Anonymous No.15177842]

Nobody takes into account the energy cost of actually producing the panel. What about the EROI? How long do these panels need to run before they make up for the energy cost of producing them? Add that to the top of your numbers to get the actual ROI.

Also, what about the cost of energy storage? Unless they're plugged directly into the electric grid, you need batteries that have to be replaced regularly. By the time you hit your ROI, you're looking at a battery replacement.

[Anonymous No.15177900]

>>15177842
You need oil to produce that shit and when that shit doesn't work you need more oil. Same goes for wind turbines.

That is the whole sthick of (((regenerative))) energy, you need oil. All the Boomer fell for a con job by the oil industry to fuck nuclear. Most ironic thing, all European Green parties have been financed by the American and Arab oil industry.

[Anonymous No.15177952]

>>15177900
We are so fucked unless we move to full geothermal and/or nuclear. We can always replace oil with electricity if we have enough of it, but if we don't have enough, we're fucking done. It won't matter how much oil is left in the ground if it costs more energy to pump it out than we get out of it.

[Anonymous No.15178021]

>>15177952
>We can always replace oil with electricity
Wut? how high are you? You know what electricity is, you know how electricity is produced?
>Replace with geothermal and/or nuclear
that would be the most environment friendly, economical and sustainable energy sources. But sell that to a bunch of indoctrinated Boomers, GenXers and their ideological children among Zoomers and Millenials. Unironically the only way to sell it is either a war or straight off beheading those that fell for the (((regenerative))) energy sources meme

[Anonymous No.15178046]

>>15177900
hydroelectric is cool but very cost prohibitive due to environmental regulations
unless you're in a 3rd world shithole I don't think building a hydro electric dam is possible/profitable

[Anonymous No.15178077]

>>15178046
I love hydro, but it is not sustainable in most countries, let alone able to cover global energy needs. It works great in mountainous regions, for local and regional demand, but everywhere else, not possible.

[Anonymous No.15178109]

>>15178077
yeah that's true
do you think small nuclear setups will ever become available, like a power source for nuclear powered boat to power a small town
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Small_modular_reactor

[Anonymous No.15178146]

>>15178109
I would wish it would. For it to happen, it would require investments into R&D and incentives for the industry. But with Boomer/GenX politicians being bribed by oil monopolists and competing for votes by retards to keep themselves in power, I don't see it happen unfortunately. As written above, the only thing that could give the planet and humanity a chance to rise above the limitation that burning some fossil energy resources bring with it, would be a global war like the 30 year war in which the majority of Boomers/GenXer as weak minded propaganda indoctrinated Millenials and Zoomers die. If that happens, maybe there will be a chance in 100 or 150 years that we can finally start exploring the regions beyond our tiny solar system

[Anonymous No.15178241]

>>15177952
Lol we are STR8 fucked m8.
Purely on topic of energy we are more fugged than a queer trick in Atlanta with a political convention in town.
Link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WPB2u8EzL8
Now if you don't have a fucking hour to watch a youtube vid some stranger on an Etruscan boar vessel enthusiast message board (totally understandable senpai)
I'll TLDR;
Civilization for the past 150 years has been running on a solar battery that took millions of years to charge. Even the most drastic measures taken to ameliorate this issue won't solve dick.
And this is before we get into the fact that it's not just energy that's of petrochemical concern, but rather the structures and products of our modern world.

[Anonymous No.15178274]

>>15178241
>Putting a shartphone next do a doggos ear for likes and attention
All those narcissist social media failures deserve nothing less than having their heads removed and their genes annihilated

[Anonymous No.15178370]

>>15178274
If you payed attention to my post you would know that is a highly likely scenario within the next 40-50 years.
Also I know the ill treatment of animals is upsetting, but try not to be such an edgefag. Instead of using terms like "annihilate their genes" use some humor like "I'd dick their ass so hard it'll tear worse than my body pillow"

[Anonymous No.15178405]

>>15178370
>we are fugged
I know that we are, the only thing that could accelerate the unfucking would be a devastating war killing the imperatives of those that are responsible for the fuckening.
>bow to the discourse of those that will not survive
No. No rational reason to play their game. They have nothing of value, beside their meat on their bones maybe.

[Anonymous No.15178432]

>>15178405
Ayyyo M8, noice effort to troll with the last line btw.

[Anonymous No.15178446]

>>15178432
>He thinks I'm trolling

[Anonymous No.15178690]

>>15178021
>>15178241
Oil's just a high energy fuel we've been relying on. We CAN replace it. With enough electricity, we can create our own fuels and innovate transportation to adapt. The main problems are shipping and flight, which rely on heavily hydrocarbon fuels. Electric planes are in their infancy and can't carry freight. Ships are run on diesel electric generators. Without hydrocarbon fuels, we have to go back to using steam turbines or solar power. Modern shipping involves flat ships stacked with containers, where are the solar panels and steam stacks going to go? We're basically fucked on shipping no matter what.

Hydrogen is a bust unless we figure out how to contain it cheaply (without extremely dense metal tanks) and produce it with less energy; if we can do that, we're golden. We can continue using hydrocarbon fuels by bio-engineering bacteria to produce them from CO2 in the air. However, how much fucking bacteria do you need to produce enough hydrocarbon fuel to satisfy the needs of our global economy? It would simply be an astronomical amount. We'd need HUGE facilities with Olympic size swimming pool vats full of bacteria spread out for miles. And what do we feed them?

The key is geothermal power, it's the only energy source that is truly abundant enough to sustain our species for the long term. We can tap into it anywhere on the Earth, all that needs to be done is dig a deep enough hole, and drop water into it; steam comes up and spins your turbines. I'm oversimplifying, but there you go. It's an abundant power source that will last millennia, until we're able to harvest energy directly from the sun more efficiently. We simply have to make EVERYTHING work with electricity. Our manufacturing capacity all has to switch over to being electrically powered. We also need to be able to drill deep enough where the rocks heat up faster than we cool them.

[Anonymous No.15178797]

>>15178690
Hydrogene, agree, hydroelectricity locally and regionally definitely a solution in mountainous regions with natural water flows. About electricity, the issue is storing and batteries are shit, rely on resources which don't exist in abundance and AGAIN are just a con job for the oil monopolists to keep power. No thanks Elon Faggot Musk

[Anonymous No.15178804]

>>15175838

>Have to pay thousands of dollars when they break in order to recycle their toxic waste
>Based

[Anonymous No.15178876]

>>15178804
They don't break, unless you get chink panels and live in a harsh weather environment, which would be retarded in the first place.
Also the ROI is about 5 years if you're in Europe in a decent place

[Anonymous No.15178912]

>>15175968
F-f-fuck you.

[Anonymous No.15178924]

>>15178876
>The ROI is five years
because of subventions paid by tax... sorry debts on the heads of the next 5 generations to not lose the Boomer vote

[Anonymous No.15178963]

>>15178924
>debts on the heads of the next 5 generations

Sweet, when do I get my check from the 5 generations in teh future?

[Anonymous No.15178989]

>>15178876

Yes they do. You can only use them for around 2 decades after which they are a heap of toxic waste that need recycling. Just enjoy those mountains of used solar panels that seep toxic.

[Anonymous No.15178993]

>>15178963
Never, that is the funny part, the producers get the checks as tax credit and you get cheaper shit that will literally never make a ROI. And if you get lucky, nothing much will happen for the next 10 years, beside productivity falling and falling with wages stagnating and tax burden rising, if you get unlucky in 5 years the ponzi scheme will completely crash and put the western world back into the dark age with local and regional tribal structures pillaging what they can pillage.

[Anonymous No.15179006]

>>15178797
Chemical batteries are pretty shit and should only be used for situations where compact power storage is needed. Grid storage has plenty of ways to store power which don't involve batteries; it's just that currently, no one fucking cares.

NASA has figured out how to use vacuum sealed flywheels on magnetic bearings (as in, no friction, no air resistance, so parts don't wear down) to store energy by spinning really fast. When the motor is turned off, it will act as a generator and convert the rotational energy back into electricity. That's a great place to invest if you see any energy storage startups using that tech.

There's also water pump storage, where you use your excess power to fill up reservoirs and drain them for hydroelectric when you need it.

[Anonymous No.15179017]

>>15179006

Funny how pumping water uphill is still one of the most efficient stores of energy

[Anonymous No.15179057]

>>15176843
>What is a PPA
>What are subsidies
This board really has gone to shit. Not a shred of knowledge outside of crypto.

[Anonymous No.15179853]

>>15175838
>5 to 8% efficiency
Pic related

[Anonymous No.15179871]

>>15176071
they are

[Anonymous No.15179882]

>>15175838
Solar is not efficient in white countries (the occupied Aboriginal lands of Australia excluded).

[Anonymous No.15180279]

>>15177900
You didn't heard about Tesla Megapack.
Yeah they have been finance by oil industry to fuck solar and wind, but they absolutely didn't foresee that wind would be profitable around 2017 and that Li-ion batteries power stations would be more efficient and profitable than gas power station (check Tesla Horsdale). Stop being a retard. Embrace Wind/solar + battery energy power station.

[Anonymous No.15180328]

They only last 20 years? I never knew that. That's almost trash tier.

[Anonymous No.15180368]

>>15179882
Solar is for the congoids and sand people.
Wind is for Europa.
With offshore deep sea wind, there is about 7000 GW of energy available, only for Euro-Atlantic area and Japan. For price lower than fossil fuels.

[Anonymous No.15180391]

>>15180328
In 20 years, solar panels will cost nothing. Same for Li-ion. It's not rocket science god dammit. See what happened with SSD. In 2009, price was about $4000 for 1TB. Now check the prices. Same is happening with li-ion. Mass production and economy of scales. No need to be a nobel prize in economy to understand this shit.

[Anonymous No.15180394]

>>15175968
top kek

[Anonymous No.15180416]

>>15180391
they already don't cost that much, it's the installation costs and the inverters that cost a lot, and those costs aren't going down anytime soon.

[Anonymous No.15180460]

>>15180416
I'm more talking about industrial solar power station. Individual ones are shit i agree, there is no economies of scale. Can be interesting of you want autonomy from the grid thought.
Regarding industrial solar power station, they can be planted in 6 months. A nuclear reactor EPR take 15 years, cost way more, have horrible delays and is more expensive. They should be planted into the Sahara desert.

[Anonymous No.15180473]

>>15180460
I do think there's a spot for industrial solar panels, but you have to be careful with adding them to the grid, too many will destabilize the grid, just imagine what happens to the electrical grid when a cloud goes over a large industrial solar farm.

[Anonymous No.15180601]

>>15178690
>let's speed up the cooling of the earth's molten core so the magnetic field protecting the earth from from radiation stops working and all the water evaporates and everything dies
Yeah good idea you fucking dipshit.

[Anonymous No.15180631]

>>15175838
>imagine running onions solar energy through your home and turning your house gay instead of buying a generator for high testosterone energy
faggot

[Anonymous No.15180786]

>>15180473
>I do think there's a spot for industrial solar panels,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_photovoltaic_power_stations
>but you have to be careful with adding them to the grid, too many will destabilize the grid, just imagine what happens to the electrical grid when a cloud goes over a large industrial solar farm.
https://www.tesla.com/blog/introducing-megapack-utility-scale-energy-storage

[Anonymous No.15180869]

And you know what’s the most important element in these bad boys?

Silver. Load the fucking boat before we pass $20 negros

[Anonymous No.15181039]

>>15175838
>buy solar panel
>they are double profitable in 5 years
>mfw cant sell my shitty panels for better ones
>repeat for 10 years
>crude is 150$

[Anonymous No.15181120]

>>15175968
BURN!

[Anonymous No.15181287]

>>15175968
Hahahah linkies BTFO

[Anonymous No.15181304]

>>15176621
In europe we dont build cardboard houses so yes the roof van handle it just fine

[Anonymous No.15181383]

>>15181304
>build house out of more material than needed
>put solol panels on roof
>look how green I am!

You crazy Ahmed

[Anonymous No.15181744]

>>15175838
Would be cheaper to load up on some Vid NOW

[Anonymous No.15182685]

>>15180601
Even if we embrace geothermal power for 100% of our energy needs, it'll still take millennia to even make a dent in the core's heat levels. By then, we'll have spread our wings and learned how to live in space.

Besides, would you rather we turn the Earth into a twisted hellscape as we recklessly devour the last paltry resources the planet has to offer in sheer desperation?

[Anonymous No.15182725]

>>15176561
> hurr spend money now to save money later on something that costs pennies
Power costs nearly zero.
Anyone into panels is a brainlet.

[Anonymous No.15182741]

>>15182685
Pink id confirms
Ur a woman, bro

[Anonymous No.15182755]

>>15182741
And you're Chinese