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15048707 No.15048707 [Reply] [Original]

In Bitcoin PoW the ASIC miners pool resources in the mining pools and they earn block and transaction fee rewards in Bitcoin.

In Proof of Stake, the staking tokens are like virtualized ASICs and the validators are like mining pools. Block/transaction fee rewards are not only in the staking token but thanks to interoperability in other staking tokens also and even in BTC or pegged fiat.

This means that if I buy now top staking tokens like ATOM, DOT, SENT, etc I will basically be like buying tons of virtual ASICs that will give me later rewards including in BTC and pegged fiat.

Seems a no brainer to buy staking tokens.

>> No.15048722

>>15048707
it's not the same.
pos is retarded and doomed to fail on it's own.
pow is extremely wasteful and there shouldn't be more than 1 pow chain but at least it's workable consensus long term.

>> No.15048731

>>15048722

PoW is not a consensus retard, it's a sybil resistance mechanism, the consensus in bitcoin is Nakamoto consensus or longest chain rule

PoS has now protection against nothing at stake and long range attacks with slashing and locking period

>> No.15048737

>>15048731
yeah pow alone it not consensus but it's key component of the consensus mechanism.

>> No.15048752

>>15048731
long range attacks are the easiest thing to defend against you can just fucking use checkpoints that's not the problem.

>> No.15048759

>>15048737

PoW is wasteful and slow.

In PoS instead of ASICs and electricity, stakingt tokens are like virtualized ASICs, and the validators like the mining pools. Token holders need to choose well the validators that wont get slashed (like mining in a fork in bitcoin) and they will earn rewards for this. But unlike in bitcoin, rewards are not only in the same staking token but with interoperability in pegged fiat, btc, eth, etc, do you realise how fucking huge this is?

>> No.15048764

>>15048752

so what's the problem then with PoS tard? The locking period like 21 days in Cosmos hub is to protect against long range attacks

>> No.15048802

>>15048759
>PoW is wasteful and slow.
it's not slower than pos there is no scalability difference between pow and pos that's a misunderstanding.

>> No.15048813
File: 15 KB, 482x551, hcaptcha.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
15048813

>>15048707
Man passive income doesn't need to be just mining. Fuck you can literally mine if you run a website

>Step 1: Create a website
>Step 2: Make sure your website has a steady stream of visitors
>Step 3: Implement hCaptcha on your website
>Step 4: Profit..

https://hcaptcha.com/

>> No.15048835

>>15048764
that's not the problem the problem is once there is a 51% majority you are never getting rid of it and slashing won't work against it either no more. by default pos has no memory and yes you can work around that in a non-consensus manner easily maybe you can work around it in a sort-of consensus manner too i can see that happen in time. but still the fact remains that money tends to gravitate to big players and they can completely corner the market and validation with pos. especially in the early days of low market cap. and they can do this in a way you will never detect or able to prove.

pow is different aside from having inherent memory new technology coming out periodically replaces and renews the entrenched miner power structure naturally.

>> No.15048863

>>15048802

Oh my god.

PoS tendermint has instant finality and infinite scalability with interoperability by adding parallel zones connected to the hubs, "horizontal scalability". Bitcoin has only probabilistic finality and recommended confirmation time 1h or 6 blocks LMAO

Retard, why lighting network exists in bitcoin for micropayments if scalability/fees are not an issue in bitcoin or Pow hahahah

>> No.15048871

>>15048813

hahahha go to shill your catcha shit somewhere else tard

>> No.15048876

>>15048863
the fact is pos is no better than any poa / federation scheme just more complicated.
lightning is not gonna scale bitcoin an other misunderstanding.

>> No.15048880

>>15048835

What the fuck you talking about, in bitcoin 51% hashrate controlled by 3 mining pools in china

In cosmos hub PoS for example, around 16 validators (mining pools) control 2/3 of the stake

You are embarrassing yourself publicly

>> No.15048890

>>15048876

"just more complicated" why PoS wont work in your opinion? tell me some real reasons

>> No.15048935

>>15048863
>tendermint
jesus

>> No.15048943
File: 24 KB, 640x640, FLETAlogo.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
15048943

All about PoF that FLETA have developed, why would you use anything else?

>> No.15048947

>>15048935

Tendermint has been used by IBM hyperledger for years now, what critics do you have?

>> No.15048954

>>15048943

PoF? Proof of Fuck? LOLOLOLOL

>> No.15048995

>>15048890
the real reason as i told you is that the basic idea is shit. and it inevitably leads to the same centralized permissioned state long term as federation coins.

as for mining pool centralization you have to understand something a pool is not a single entity ownership of the hashpower is greatly distributed. and owners can switch pools under 5 minutes completely reorganizing the power-structure overnight if they are not in consensus.

you got tens of thousands of miners in bitcoin and hashpower constantly leaving china and getting more distributed globally.

i think any other pow chain aside from btc is retarded especially of the same hash family. like bch and sv. those are going full retard. but other coins that are more centralized can only achieve decentralized finality if they merge mine or parasitically latch to bitcoin blockchain.

this leads to a hierarchy of chains all of which is secured by btc hash. with the final transaction capacity only limited by imagination. eth will probably get in line too or get captured.

>> No.15049018

>>15048947
man... ibm yeah listen these companies don1t get crpyto they don't get trustless they don't get permisisonless they are dicking around with private blockchains still in 2019 they solve sybill attacks by simply permission nodes and electing privileged validators like it's 1970.

i sincerely don1T give a fuck about what ibm oracle microsoft and the rest are doing with "crypto"

>> No.15049166

>>15048890
>why PoS wont work in your opinion?
also i never said it won't work why wouldn't it work? nothing stopping it from working i said i don't want that piece of shit. just like i don't want federation coins like libra. i don't believe in it.

but here is a more nuanced view on the issue. satoshi solved an important problem he proved a working trustless permissionless publicly auditable and secure monetary system is possible. he also made it innately deflationary which may have been a mistake if he wanted to replace cash. but whatever.

so what satoshi never did is figure out governance mechanisms. he had a vague idea that consensus will take care of it but so long he was around everything he said was go. when he left bitcoin was left without governance and an emerging consensus was formed with 5 major power blocks. now pos removes 1 block and merges 3 others to 1. it's just something i can't see how could possibly end well for the users.

but never said it won't work. personally shading vs sidechains vs hierarchic dependent chains and stuff not that interesting debate. many ways to scale off chain. only one way to scale on chain. we will see.

>> No.15049176

will reply all your shit very soon, have a meeting now, get ready anon to get rekt

>> No.15049189
File: 8 KB, 251x201, 1511434452657.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
15049189

>>15049176

>> No.15049410

>>15049176
heh i have to go to work but you are not rekting anyone your stupid shit is easily debunked.

>> No.15049884

>>15048995

Validators receive hashrate (staking tokens) from thousands of token holders also

What do you mean mining pools in bitcoin dont have the control? Then why CZ called bitmain after the $40million hack retard?

>> No.15049897

>>15049018

And binance and facebook libra that are building with tendermint/cosmos? They are also wrong and you are right? HAAHAHAHA

>> No.15049906

>>15049410

called finished pussy, i answered you

>> No.15049968

>>15049906
one moment lemme recap you pos

>> No.15049994

>>15048880
Holy shit that's EOS-tier bad. I was about to pull the trigger on ATOM.

>> No.15050008
File: 75 KB, 960x764, D_wqjJYXUAESL78.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
15050008

>>15049968

The only PoW that will survive is Bitcoin

Rest will be PoS even Ethereum. But what the idiot cult leader vitalik doesnt realize is that ETH is already used a lot as fee token etc, so not much will be staked and therefore attacking the network will be easy

In cosmos currently 70% of supple locked in staking, similar % will happen in Polkadot and sentinel

>> No.15050017

>>15049994

There are 100 validators, in Polkadot there will be thousands and all with same voting power, also in Sentinel validators will be a lot more decentralised than in Cosmos hub

>> No.15050193

>>15049884
staking tokens are not hashrate you nignog. they behave absolutely differently.
>What do you mean mining pools in bitcoin dont have the control?
the power is distributed in the emerging consensus between miners, developers, exchanges / financial services, speculators / fund managers, and users / validating network propagation nodes. by the look of bitcoins history any 2 of these blocks can negate the influence of any 1 but some exercises their power in a very passive way that is not apparent especially to brainlets.
>>15049897
facebook is not wrong with libra they know exactly what they are doing (a trustful permissioned system that can really scale to global adoption) i just want them to fail. better for the world. libra is not crypto it's a corporate digital currency. how much it will truly be federated is the only question left open.

>> No.15050208

>>15050008
>The only PoW that will survive is Bitcoin
no argument there. my argument is bitcoin is the only true crpyto it can't scale on it's own but it doesn't sacrifice from the core tenets. you have to sacrifice something to scale and that's okay at the periphery of the ecosystem not in the fucking core. that's all what i'm saying.

>> No.15050290

>>15050193

They are hashrate in proof of stake, the more tokens you have the more probability of proposing a block and earning more rewards

CZ called bitmain because he knows bitcoin is centralized and 2/3 mining pools can easily do a reorg and return the $40 million hacked to CZ

I meant libra is using hotstuff consensus which is based in Tendermint

>> No.15050297

>>15050208

Yeah, that's what Cosmos, Sentinel, Polkadot are, sidechains to improve bitcoin, dont be so focus on bitcoin, all these projects will make bitcoin stronger

>> No.15050362

When you realize idex is number one on 4chan because all of 4chan has been DCA eth. LOL. Rekt

>> No.15050384

>>15050297
yes if bitcoin can become the spine of the ecosystem with stablecoins at the periphery for commerce this could all work out very well.

BUT bitcoin can't do this with 1mb block limit for long. and that is my problem. it needs to remain small block but the 1mb is a dangerous gamble that can choke it. doubling the block size with every halving would provide natural scaling with the underlying infrastructure. sadly the current core dev team is too ideologically entrenched in off-chain scaling to see reason. they are fueled by blind faith that bitcoin somehow be okay with full blocks even in the interim period with no real 2 way pegged sidechains.

>> No.15050439

Guys Black-rock capital is behind Cosmos

nuff said

>> No.15050455

>>15048995
brainlet

>> No.15050596

>>15050362

what do you mean?

>> No.15050605

>>15050439

lol you wish hahahaha

>> No.15050611

>>15050455
you are right it's not the same as federation coins they have a much more transparent and democratic structure.

>> No.15050615

>>15050384

what do you mean, bitcoin will be bridged to cosmos and polkadot, pegged-BTC wont have the scalability issues

>> No.15050619

>>15050596
4chan bags hold eth. They are attracted to Vitalik. That is their hero.

>> No.15050633

>>15050605
Do not have to wish faggot. Just sitting x64 from ICO. (:

>> No.15050637

>>15050615
yeah but when? see bitcoin is vulnerable now. if sidechains take off the load it will be okay. altho what it really needs is shitstains like veriblock either fuck off or change the way the use btc blockspace.

>> No.15050651

>>15050619

bullshit, 4chan support bitcoin, LINK and now SENT

>> No.15050660

>>15050633

because ICO was in april 2017, eth was like 10$ then and btc 1k

>> No.15050668

>>15050637

when? IBC in cosmos by October, then bridges in polkadot end of 2019, not that far

>> No.15050913

>>15050668
Polkadot is a scam

>> No.15050965

>>15050913

Why?

>> No.15051293

>>15050965
Because the word has no meaning any more.

>> No.15051582

>>15051293

Thanks, you are the scam not Polkadot

>> No.15051751

>>15050913

Lol, bitcoin, cosmos and polkadot will be the top 3 in Coinmarketcap by 2020

>> No.15051767
File: 40 KB, 465x240, IMG_20190724_113443_756.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
15051767

Agree OP