Someone explain

[Anonymous No.13873134]

How can "whales" manipulate a market? Let's say I have 10,000 BTC. OK, how do I magically make the price of BTC go up or down?

It's not really possible if you think about it for 10 seconds.

[Anonymous No.13873148]

>>13873134
Dump half of it and cause mass panic, buy up cheap BTC from people selling

[Anonymous No.13873149]

>>13873134
I just spent 10 seconds thinking about it and got the answer. They market sell just enough to move it down. When the average person sees red for a few days, they'll think it's going all the way down and start selling.

[Anonymous No.13873155]

>>13873134
>Sell everything at 9k
>Watch as it dips to 8K
>Use profits from 9K Sell to buy at 8k
>Wait for the purchase to pump it to 9.5k
>Sell everything at 9.5k

Manipulating requires you to guess correctly that enough FOMO exists

[Anonymous No.13873160]

Thanks, just sold 100k

[Anonymous No.13873164]

Bots manipulate way more than whales and dont need to risk huge amounts of btc to accomplish price movements

[Anonymous No.13873176]

>>13873134
S-source?

[Anonymous No.13873179]

>>13873164
OK... how?

[Anonymous No.13873193]

Boy, these 'explanations' for market manipulation are really dumb.

How dumb must you be to think that one person buying and selling a large stack *makes* everyone do the same...

< 100.

[Anonymous No.13873236]

>>13873193
I want your stupid ass to think about this for a moment: How would the Bitcoin price even move down without huge amounts of selling? John Doe with his 20k worth of bitcoin selling won't do a thing. It only goes down when the whales sell. When the whales sell, all the idiots follow suit. It's a self fulfilling prophecy for them.

>OH SHIT BEAR MARKET SELL SELL SELL
>HAHA I TOLD YOU IDIOTS I TOLD YOU IT WAS GOING DOWN

Understand? Try not to call others dumb when you're... the way you are.

[Anonymous No.13873263]

>>13873236
The biggest “whales” are countries. You need to have an exchange agree to buy any massive “dump” they make anyway. Or have another individual agree to buy the unwanted Crypto.

You sell 3 bitcoin on some exchange, it’s literally just the exchange buying

[Anonymous No.13873282]

>>13873263
>You need to have an exchange agree to buy any massive “dump” they make anyway

What? Why can't they just move their BTC to a major exchange and start market selling. That'll drop the price real quick if you have enough to sell.

[Anonymous No.13873287]

>>13873236
>>13873263

>continued

Any Gigantic sell has to be purchased by an exchange, or an individual. If they are too big, the exchange will likely tell you to fuck off, or break up the transaction over time.

[Anonymous No.13873293]

>>13873236
>>How would the Bitcoin price even move down without huge amounts of selling?

Lower demand. Huge amounts of selling actually means the demand has been met with supply.

>> When the whales sell, all the idiots follow suit.

No, this doesn't really happen.

You are very dumb. So sorry.

[Anonymous No.13873298]

>>13873134
My big question is that who the fuck buys all the whales coins at that high price? Is it exchanges or some actual retards?

[Anonymous No.13873310]

>>13873293
>Huge amounts of selling actually means the demand has been met with supply.

What are you talking about? That's only true if they set a price higher than the highest buy. The sell orders are the demand. They can clear the sell orders. I don't even care what you think. Share your dumb reddit spaced opinions with someone else. Fucking brainlets.

[Anonymous No.13873316]

>>13873310
meant to say the buy orders are the demand and they can clear the buy orders

[Anonymous No.13873324]

>>13873310
>What are you talking about?
Not gonna make it.

[Anonymous No.13873326]

>>13873134
Godamn you people are fucking retarded! Do you know how an orderbook eaven works?
>Business and finance

[Anonymous No.13873338]

Fake Tether.

[Anonymous No.13873343]

>>13873155
Basically this. You need to predict that the move in one direction will be bigger/smaller than the move in the opposite direction. Another option is something like:
> slowly (so you don't crash the market) open a 10x short on Bitmex for 1k BTC = 10k BTC
> quickly dump 9k BTC on various exchanges to crash the market
> slowly close to your short on Bitmex (so you don't pump the market). Or even better buy the 1k BTC OTC so it doesn't affect the market price.
> profit

[Anonymous No.13873355]

>>13873310
>The sell orders are the demand
Anon, i....
Seriously after 3yrs on biz this place has become absolutely useless....we had good threads trough 2017/18....can someone raccomand so other place where you can atually give and take useful info from people?
This place is dead, reddit is shit...anyone?

[Anonymous No.13873356]

>>13873298
My understanding is that selling on all exchanges were severely handicapped when bitcoin spiked at 19k. No one was getting 19k and cashout fees went through the roof. Try selling 20 BTC or 200 when it was worth “19k” no one wanted them. Or they would offer you 5k a piece for them.

[Anonymous No.13873365]

>>13873355
raccomand this pajeet a better place guys

[Anonymous No.13873367]

ITT: People think exchange buying and selling in massive volume ISN'T a costly waste of time that shorts your own stack.

[Anonymous No.13873374]

>>13873134
You can trigger stop losses from other people. Their stop losses will trigger someone else stop loses. You know the drill.
Imagine if you are powerful, and the exchanges tells you exactly where those stop loses are. It can be done with extreme precision.

[Anonymous No.13873377]

>>13873365
Why? 4chan is about the best you can get on any board. It’s the least censored

[Anonymous No.13873378]

>>13873134
they can't. they just fill all the buy orders. the price is determined by the speed of the miners. the faster the miners mine, the higher the price goes. back in 2017, when bitcoin was near 20k, the mining algorithm was going through the roof. after a major meltdown of a main bitcoin plant, it caused the price to crash. since then, they have been rebuilding the mining algorithm and the price has since been going up slowly.

[Anonymous No.13873379]

>>13873343
There are several other ways too such as painting the tape/ fake volume, fake buy/sell orders etc.
http://www.complinet.com/cbb/display/viewall_display.html?rbid=2176&element_id=3287

[Anonymous No.13873382]

>>13873134
You push it just enough to trigger people's limit orders. Think of it like billiards. You don't need to follow through all the way with the cue, just give the ball enough momentum to hit other balls.

[Anonymous No.13873383]

>>13873326
>>13873355
If you're going to bitch at least tell him WHY he's wrong. Are you sure you aren't the redditor here talking about muh 2017/18?

[Anonymous No.13873388]

>>13873377
>It’s the least censored

I think we've learned fully that there are drawbacks. The Chainlink spam being number 1 on the list of negatives.

[Anonymous No.13873396]

>>13873134
You finally figured out that anyone claiming manipulation is a schizophrenic retarded faggot. Good job

[Anonymous No.13873399]

>>13873388
And /pol/ has the best political discussion, but shills post nigger dick threads all day to distract etc.

[Anonymous No.13873404]

>>13873377
I got banned for posting an obvious joke nazi image once here on /biz/. Jannies are scum

[Anonymous No.13873406]

>>13873396
Yeah, really sick of the 'whales' conspiracies.

[Anonymous No.13873418]

>>13873406
Just a bunch of newfags trying to wrap their heads around what a squeeze is.

[Anonymous No.13873420]

>>13873356
I understand but I think exchanges have a kind of obligations to buy your coins.
I mean look at tether.
It’s a shit coin and everyone know it’s just gonna go lower, but exchanges still buy them of you.

[Anonymous No.13873437]

this thread is full of retards

>buy sell otc
>dump pump on exchange
>use synthetic dollar to buy
>coordinate somewhat with other whales

Whales in crypto own hundreds of thousands of bitcoin and they just so happened to have confounded exchanges or invested in early days and have some connection

they put the price wherever they want within reason

Every alt coin can be pumped and dumped at will. They dump to buy more BTC since the alt is worthless

You buy into the pump and get dumped on, they now own your bitcoin and you're left with altcoin shit

[Anonymous No.13873441]

>>13873134

Have a (you)

[Anonymous No.13873442]

>>13873338

[Anonymous No.13873448]

>>13873396
Retarded faggot
Early adooters have 100k plus bitcoin

[Anonymous No.13873449]

>>13873134
You sweet fucking summer child

[Anonymous No.13873451]

>>13873420
No one is technically obligated to buy your coins. If they become too expensive too quickly? No one will give you a good price for them. Bitcoin was NEVER worth 20k a coin, because no one was actually willing to pay that.

[Anonymous No.13873453]

>>13873442
is there a site that provides this info in real time?

[Anonymous No.13873454]

>>13873437
>You buy into the pump
No. I don’t.

[Anonymous No.13873463]

>>13873448
100k/21 mil = 0.04%
Kill yourself

[Anonymous No.13873467]

>>13873454
You hold altcoin? Then yes, yes you did

[Anonymous No.13873470]

>>13873437
is the otc market price by definition always lower than the open market price? surely that can't be the case and there occasionally arb opportunities

[Anonymous No.13873475]

>>13873453
Not an accurate one. The information is too valuable for the public to get. Governments make their own sites to predict shit like this. Highly guarded secrets.

[Anonymous No.13873477]

>>13873463
Hence plus
You are a retard, don't know shit

[Anonymous No.13873488]

>>13873470
What? Otc price whatever they agree on

I could buy 100,000 bitcoin Otc and not move the price because no one even knows.....

[Anonymous No.13873495]

>>13873467
Are you high or what? Get the fuck off this board. Stop buying pump and dumps newfag, problem solved.

[Anonymous No.13873499]

>>13873495
Every alt coin is pump and dump you moronic faggot

[Anonymous No.13873507]

>>13873134

Remember that the $100m whale that bought at $4k to push the price about $5k has not sold yet.

[Anonymous No.13873513]

if you want the price to magically go up you print some $450,000,000+ of tether and buy BTC. It's great because its free money and you can print it when ever you want

[Anonymous No.13873514]

>>13873475
most this info (crypto-crypto at least, not fiat) is public info, available as transaction records

but I can see why the data on govt-backed currencies would be more securely held

[Anonymous No.13873517]

>>13873488
it's still a market that obeys supply and demand no? or is it so small that collusion is always optimal? it seems that if that were the case they could dump BTC into the ground and eventually sell for higher OTC if whales are composed of people that actually believe in the long term unmanipulated open market value of BTC, or are you suggesting that all long term price movement is all a result of inorganic manipulations and not real demand on the open market?

[Anonymous No.13873522]

>>13873513

Wait, you mean that you can just create your own altcoin then buy BTC? Wouldn't magically creating fake currency drive down the price of all this fake digital currency? I mean, why would anyone fall for this?

[Anonymous No.13873528]

>>13873488
also forgot to add, yes OTC buying won't affect the open market price until it's sold but isn't the point of buying OTC to arb with the open market?

[Anonymous No.13873538]

>>13873451
So why do they buy your shitcoins?
I mean they all done and never gonna go up because no one trust them.

[Anonymous No.13873539]

>>13873517

It's all tulips, anon.

[Anonymous No.13873546]

>>13873517
>>13873528
Bitfinex, Tether, Kraken, Barry Silbert (owner of DCG), Roger Ver, Erik Voorhees and many other actors all connected together and complicit in market manipulation set up through exchanges they own/co-founded/invested in precisely for the purpose of pumping and dumping on (You). In addition, Poloniex, CoinDesk, and other parties appear to be involved.

http://archive.is/lk1lH

[Anonymous No.13873547]

>>13873538
If only some of them had specific uses like the ability to create end to end tamperproof and legally binding self executing digital contracts trustlessly connected to market data, iot events, e signatures and banking systems finally realizing the potential of dlt technology for the legacy finance and insurance industries

[Anonymous No.13873556]

>>13873547
>still going when it'll unironically be over in a few days

[Anonymous No.13873559]

>>13873134
Lets say the price of the coin is $1. The whale will buy up large volumes up the coin for around $1 then list them for sale for $2+.

Then he pumps the price up to $2 and puts in buy orders for $1.99 while his coins are listed for sale at $2+. As soon as hes got most of his coins sold at the higher price he will pull all of his buy support then dump what little he has left onto the market.

[Anonymous No.13873564]

>>13873134
Create tiered buy and sell walls that rise and fall synchronously in accordance with meme lines. Pump, dump and repeat. Anyone with even 100 BTC can do this on Binance, but it's doubtful anyone holding 10k BTC would waste their time

[Anonymous No.13873573]

>>13873559
This only works on coins with lower market caps. Shitcoins are the most vulnerable to this kind of pump&dump.

[Anonymous No.13873578]

>>13873522
Inflation only occurs when the newly added assets are valued

And most tokens aren't

[Anonymous No.13873593]

>>13873134
>know that people have stop losses set
>dump a lot of BTC to trigger them
>already have buy orders set so when all the stop losses market sell you buy the tip of the red candle

Price goes way up after a while, so you just repeat.

[Anonymous No.13873596]

>>13873556
what's going to be over anon?

[Anonymous No.13873625]

>thinking that whales dont group together
I had a friend who was a large dolphin (100btc or so) and he knew a bunch of chinese/korean whales that traded together to pump or dump coins and make profit. The guys were highly paranoid of giving away any information about themselves because they feared they'd get hacked. BTC is nice until you realize that if you aren't using paper wallets then your money isn't secured by the blockchain but by the OS/encryption that you use for your computer/wallet.

[Anonymous No.13873649]

>>13873625
Or you could trust your Keys to some big firm like Coinbase.

[Anonymous No.13873720]

>>13873453
https://coinlib.io/global-crypto-charts?theme=dark#global_money_flow

[Anonymous No.13873748]

>>13873625
All money on muh blockchain is secured by encryption you idiot, this is cryptography currency we're talking about. If you encrypt your wallet with a passphrase using AES-256 or similar you'll be fine and it'll take 50 years to crack. Obviously having a backup is essential, but it's losing your private key you should be worried about not whether the encryption works or not.

[Anonymous No.13873789]

>>13873625
Here is a bip38 wallet with bitcoin in
Try crack it

- bip38 wallets with 20+ char passphrase takes over 900 quintillion years for the entire nicehash pool to make a dent on it (secure)
- generate a bunch of wallets from a mint booted live linux on an offline computer restart before going online (private)
- 0.1 btc per wallet for better exposure management when swiping also limits the entirely unlikely singular key collision fallout (divisible)
- multiple locations even if a car sized meteor hits one you are still okay (disaster proof)
- can use a professional trezor service (trustless)
- upload the private keys to a cloud service and one or more online service they are encrypted and nobody can even tall what the addresses are (unconfiscateable)
- it's practically costless unless you count paper and ink as cost and you can be anywhere on the world even on the run, you can access your funds. (free)

[Anonymous No.13873804]

>>13873134
>own all or pretty much all of something
>little competition, can price and value their own belongings
Capitalism, ho!

[Anonymous No.13873810]

>>13873789
What happens if you send your Bitcoin to the wrong address? It's gone. All that impossible to hack shit thrown out the window.

[Anonymous No.13873816]

>>13873810
What happens if you send money to the wrong bank account? Haven't you heard of these scams where scammers get you to send to their bank account and the bank doesn't cover them because they sent willingly?

[Anonymous No.13873825]

>>13873816
You can dispute the charge and any decent bank will get you your money back if you explain what happened. I'm just making a number up but assume with a bank, you have a 50% chance of getting your funds back. With Bitcoin, it's 0%. There's no Bitcoin support. Really terrible argument, buddy.

[Anonymous No.13873913]

>>13873825
No, you can't. This is a relatively common thing, you can't get the money back if you sent willingly. These scams are common with old people, etc, and they end up losing their savings. The banks will not cover you if you sent willingly and were not hacked.
There is no 50% chance at all, the bank will cover you if you got 'hacked' sure, but they won't otherwise and so they shouldn't.

But what is your argument anyway? That you can accidentally send to the wrong address and lose the money forever? So don't do that then. You can accidentally step out in traffic and be run over too

[Anonymous No.13873926]

>>13873789
Biggest problem with bitcoin is converting it into funds. You have to pay taxes and start answering questions if you convert much of it. At least in the US. So all this shit about:

>I have 500M in coins
>I’ll just cash out lol

Is total bullshit. Unless you are extremely powerful, you will never sell all those coins, because you were likely doing something highly illegal to get all that.

[Anonymous No.13873934]

>>13873825
You can dispute a credit card transaction. You cannot dispute wire transfers, you'll have to take the case to court

[Anonymous No.13873942]

>>13873934
Most of the scams involving wire fraud is sent out of the US. Those countries don’t give a shit about your court

[Anonymous No.13873944]

>>13873926
How is that a fault of Bitcoin? If anything its the gubberment stepping on your face and saying fuck you.

Early adopters have clearly cashed out and many of the are probably holding a lot of fiat (hundreds of millions) and billions in Bitcoin. Obviously they can't just sell all of that whenever they want the same way that Bezos couldn't sell 50 billion of Amazon stock tomorrow and expect nothing to happen.

>Is total bullshit. Unless you are extremely powerful, you will never sell all those coins, because you were likely doing something highly illegal
If you have 300,000 Bitcoin then you *are* extremely powerful, no?

[Anonymous No.13873953]

>>13873942
I agree with you. Wire transfers are, for the most part, indisputable/immutable

[Anonymous No.13873968]

>>13873134
You just need to trigger stop losses on leveraged positions. Exchanges share this information to insiders

[Anonymous No.13874205]

>>13873944
Wasn’t an attack against Bitcoin. It was just a statement. If you have that much Crypto, you need to have some explanation on how you got it if you want to convert it to USD. That was my only point. You can likely move to another country that doesn’t care as much, but you get my idea. Not many individuals own that much Crytpo. It makes people nervous when you show up with large suitcases of cash or shitloads of coin they want to sell. People immediately think: “they are doing something highly illegal.”

[Anonymous No.13874218]

>>13874205
Oh fair enough, thought you were the other guy
But yeah I agree. You can't just cash out millions out of thin air

[Anonymous No.13874279]

>>13873179
A bunch of pajeets figured out that they don't need to be rich to manipulate prices. They created trade signals. A great majority of bots use these trade signals. The pajeets control these trade signals and profit off the manipulation that their signals cause.

[ANC No.13874745]

>>13873134
All you need to do is dump a noticeable amount or little amounts long enough to make the average person see red and panic ;d
Quite simple.. this is why I prefer coins like OMI with an excellent use case backing them.

[Anonymous No.13874936]

>>13873367
stop losses motherfucker

[Anonymous No.13874946]

>>13873193
manipulation isnt "one person" its a cartel.
if you think there arent collusive cartels in the market you are a brainlet

[Anonymous No.13875037]

>>13873134 (OP)

something called float, how much is actually being bought & sold
BTC, 200 BILLION market cap and only 2 or 3 M being traded... easily manipulated.

[Anonymous No.13875735]

>>13874946
this. you have entities with large stacks of bitcoin (miners, early whales, funds, etc) who have completely cornered the market, which means they own and control the supply. only 1 mio btc is being traded while they have several millions of bitcoins. so their only goal is to make the price pump enough so that enough people buy their bags. how do they do this? by colluding with exchanges and all parties involved. so it's easy to be a whale on bitmex when your cartel have millions of coins. they can pump and dump easily. what is controlling the price? a few exchanges: coinbase, bitstamp, kraken, finex. these exchanges know exactly how much $ or btc is in the sideline and you can bet they share the info with the trading firms in the space. whales dont need to trade it themselves. what they do is paying trading firms to do market making and pump/dumping their coins. and of course they need crypto influencers and can measure market sentiment. wonder how those cartoonish crypto influencers make money? they are paid by the cartel to push a narrative and manipulate sentiment. remember when those influencers told you to go long at resistance during all 2018? whales wanted to sell so they need suckers buying. the whole market is rigged.

[Anonymous No.13875786]

Ive said all along you can't fucking manipulate a closed supply. All you can do is waste your BTC to try to trick others. Most whales have got better things to do with their btc I expect. Manipulation is a normie reddit myth.

[Anonymous No.13875825]

> Open Short
> Dump BTC (Sell)
> Close Short
> Open Long
> Pump BTC (Buy)
> Close Long
> Repeat

[Anonymous No.13875846]

>>13875786
of course you can. their goal is long term game. they are holding the supply the make the price go up. their goal is to induce massive worldscale fomo to gently unload their coins for max profit

[Anonymous No.13875860]

>>13875825
great, you just made a lot of btc on bitmex. how do you convert it to real usd? OTC or on exchanges. Repeat until all retail money is dried up

[Anonymous No.13875906]

>>13875825
basically all the btc made on bitmex need to be sold to actual usd if you want realized profits and not paper gainz. but those whales can't sell for usd because there isn't enough of it.

[Anonymous No.13875943]

>>13873134
>It's not really possible if you think about it for 10 seconds.
yes, if you only think about it for 10secs and are an absolute retard oyu'll think it's impossible

there's been bpeople manipulating markets for as long as there's been markets
it's the fucking foundation of TA

[Anonymous No.13875956]

>>13873134
>You have enough shitcoin or fiat to to massively effect the volume of BTC.
>Slowly buy BTC and create giant green dildos, throwing the charts off.
>Every idiot that can't tell the difference between organic growth and an artificial pump starts to FOMO in
>Whale shorts BTC and starts to pull their money out of BTC.
>Make money from the FOMOfags and from your short.
That's how whales work.

[Anonymous No.13876341]

>>13874279
what teh fuck are you even talking about? why post at all if you have nothing valuable to say fag? jesus christ, the iq of this board.

[Anonymous No.13876357]

>>13873148

Don't forget to short too.

[Anonymous No.13876378]

>>13873134
> thinks the meme is reality

[Anonymous No.13876384]

>>13873134
now for a serious answer. it's became much easier to manipulate the market since margin trading has become as big as it is now. the books are loaded with liquidity now, all it takes is the right amount of push to start triggering stops and liquidations. to a certain degree, I think it's possible that people have bots modeling out the liquidity of the order books to see where positions are opening/closing. once it's stacked just so and the volume slows down enough, a person can buy/sell to create a spike and start triggering the stops/liquidations, which have a cascading effect. aka bart pattern.

[Anonymous No.13876409]

>>13876378
how new are you? every crypto market is controlled by the biggest players. this is true for BTC all the way down to your favorite IDEX shitcoin.

[Anonymous No.13876480]

>>13876409
ok brainlet whatever you say

[Anonymous No.13876482]

>>13873134
>muh-nipulation

[Anonymous No.13876550]

>>13876480
I don't even know how this is debatable. every token and coin has a few wallets that control a significant percent of the supply. when you're trading large amounts of money and want to enter/exit, liquidity becomes an issue and there's really only a few ways you can play it to get in/out without screwing yourself.
try to think like a whale and you will see it on every chart you trade. want to exit your large position on a low volume coin? how to do this without crashing the price? pump it first and then try to unload higher up during the fomo. want to increase your stack? push it down first to buy in cheaper. go find yourself a low cap shitcoin buy yourself a large position. you will learn what I mean. it doesn't matter what the other 90% of the market participants are doing if the top 10% controls most of the supply, the controlling interests are the ones who's trades move the markets.

[Anonymous No.13876608]

>>13876550
> single digit IQ

[Anonymous No.13876652]

>>13876608
yeah, you've made such a convincing argument.
>nuh uh
good job newfag. you've got it all figured out on your first day.

[Anonymous No.13876715]

>>13876652
kek why argue with someone screaming 'flat earth reee reee', I know you think things work like that but they rarely do son

[Anonymous No.13876809]

>>13876715
why do you think that? I'm saying this as someone who has built my stack dominating small cap coins. I see the same patterns on every chart I watch. I can't tell if you're trolling me or if you really are retarded, but you think like a poorfag. when you have a large stack to swing, you can't think like a poorfag anymore.
none of us increase our stacks without swinging. trading strategy is different when you are moving larger amounts. keep hold and praying if that's your thing newfag, but it's not going to get you there