/biz/ - Business & Finance

[Anonymous No.13701639]

How does this make sense?

>buy new car with smartcontract insurance
>take hammer to sensor

“Oops looks like I was in a collision”
>smart contract automatically outputs payment to bank account

[Anonymous No.13701651]

Imagine having a single digit iq like op

[Anonymous No.13701655]

Wouldn't this require your car to be connected to the internet at all times? No thanks lol

[Anonymous No.13701661]

What do you expect from a 2 person team lmao incompetent potheads

[Anonymous No.13701663]

>>13701651
great point glad you could enlighten me

[Anonymous No.13701665]

Holy shit that's a 10bn usecase
A FUCKING
10BN
USECASE
ONLY ONE
IS WORTH
10BN
IMAGINE THE REST

[Anonymous No.13701666]

>>13701639
holy shit you're right. just sold 100k

[Anonymous No.13701671]

>>13701639
He's talking about new cars like a Tesla. Insurance is going to want a car to upload data to a trustless blockchain, not Tesla servers, to determine insurance payouts. You do know about the tsla/link connection, right?

[Anonymous No.13701675]

>>13701639
I think it’s a valid question. Architecting smart contracts will be a form of art. The hardware will lag behind the software initially, but time will fix this.

[Anonymous No.13701676]

>>13701663
t. nopants

[Anonymous No.13701677]

>>13701639

Wow, OP has the power of thor hammer, kill thanos please, have sex

[Anonymous No.13701681]

>>13701655
What do you think will happen to our cars in the future you brainlet?! The future is interconnected!

[Anonymous No.13701689]

>>13701666
This isn’t fud you idiot, I’m asking how you can decentralize this data

Two sensors have to collide at the same time? It just seems like a very clear centralized point of failure.

[Anonymous No.13701692]

its just another bullshit crypto use case like all the other projects "promise"

[Anonymous No.13701693]

>>13701671
Kek I thought I was the only one who had put this together.

[Anonymous No.13701694]

>>13701639
man are you dumb

[Anonymous No.13701698]

>>13701639
In the future all new cars will be Teslas.
(That right, Toyota, BMW, Ford, will all become niche hobbyshops for gas-nostalgic boomers)
Tealas have 8 cameras, giving 360 views, and time stamping, ultrasonics and radar.
If you approach it with a hammer then file a fake report, the AI will instantly be able to recognise a cheat and a fraud. And will automatically submit the evidence to the authorities, and you'll be paddled on the bum 100 times.
Chainlink will be used to verify that you have received full and painful paddlings.

[Anonymous No.13701713]

>>13701698
This is honestly the best response even though it’s a joke.
>>13701694
Imagine having an actual argument
>>13701671
This has nothing to do with what I said.

[Anonymous No.13701717]

>>13701639
You can always do that. Its called insurance fraud. Just takes longer now and you'd fuck yourself since your premium goes up. So I don't even know why you would do that.

[Anonymous No.13701721]

>>13701651
kek

[Anonymous No.13701725]

>>13701639
This is the problem with smart contracts. There's no value add running things on a decentralized whatever the fuck. You need a court with humans in it to run everything anyways.

[Anonymous No.13701732]

elon musk asks "what things should be developed on ethereum?" on twitter while also pursuing insurance as a Tesla offering. i guess it's pretty likely he's gonna drop the blockchain bomb soona nd WE'RE FUCKING AR;LJRICIIICHHH RICH FUCK EYAADSS

[Anonymous No.13701737]

>>13701671
Cars connected to IOT will be standard. Everything starts out in high end vehicles then becomes the norm.

[Anonymous No.13701743]

>>13701725
There are some use cases that are fine

However from the beginning I’ve asked how “subjective inputs” will work. Things that are binary in nature (true or false) type of agreements are great for smart contracts.

However what I’m questioning is a “subjective input”

[Anonymous No.13701746]

>>13701689

You are motherfucking stupid to think that a sensor that checks for collisions would be designed to break to signal that the car crashed, a sensor that breaks gives NOTHING like NULL instead of the lb per pound, the jerk, and the jounce required to check for a collision

[Anonymous No.13701752]

>>13701746

*per inch

fuck you

[Anonymous No.13701763]

>>13701725
>This is the problem with cars they need Oil where would you even get that from. Who needs a car when you have a horse and it can just eat grass on the side of the road.

[Anonymous No.13701765]

>>13701713
Here's the spoon. Now eat you dumb motherfucker.

https://link.smartcontract.com/whitepaper

[Anonymous No.13701782]

>>13701737

thats why jaguar and iota is a big deal

[Anonymous No.13701784]

>>13701765
Durrr here’s your spoon for subjective inputs

>>13701675
Only person with a Brain here

[Anonymous No.13701790]

>>13701743
>smart contract says you'll pay once the goods are delivered
>sensor will detect that the good have arrived
>sensor goes off, you pay the company but good were never delivered
what now?

[Anonymous No.13701792]

>>13701698
high iq except for the first line

[Anonymous No.13701795]

>>13701746
The question in itself is valid. It will be a cat and mouse game of designing hardware that can keep up with those who will try and fraud the system.

[Anonymous No.13701815]

>>13701784
>tfw literally nearly every question or argument /biz/ brings up against link is answered in the whitepaper
>tfw people here are too mentally challenged to read 30 pages

kys unironically

[Anonymous No.13701819]

I think the article comes off as broad use cases. They released right before the hackaton so it's probably to help jump start ideas for developers. Also, we are early stages, many of these will develop over time, with simpler models coming first. As one anon mentioned, designing smart contract will def be an art.

Also, smashing with a hammer is way different then the metric you get from a crash.

[Anonymous No.13701825]

>>13701790
This is a prime example of a “subjective input”

An “objective input” would be say, a price aggregation, temperature aggregation.

Hard to have an “objective input” when the data source is centralized in a single point (delivery) in your case

Or in my OP the case of a collision or fraud collision

[Anonymous No.13701830]

>>13701790
I mean it depends on how you do it. You could use an e-signature too if you wanted or have Gps location trigger it.

[Anonymous No.13701832]

You guys don't fucking get it, do you? Data providers (ie insurance claim investigators) would use similar methods to provide data to the nodes, only now they can automate their checks with tech (cameras, sensors, beyond anything you can fake) without requiring trust because it's decentralised.
No one gets the extent of how revolutionary it's all going to be. You fucking idiots.

[Anonymous No.13701836]

>>13701795

It has been always like this, doesn't stop the industry in moving forward, see high voltage lines ac vs continuous current

[Anonymous No.13701843]

Link is shit

[Anonymous No.13701845]

>>13701825
you don't get the fucking point do you? LINK won't be used for fucking collision insurance in the next few years or so. look at pic >>13701765
by the time we are using smart contracts for things like that, tech will have developed so far to a point where we can hardly imagine it today (think internet in the 90s to now)

[Anonymous No.13701851]

>>13701819
You could also solve the problem by decentralizing the inputs.

This will be much easier when two chainlink-connected cars collide (we're likely 4-5 years away from chainlinked collision data written to the blockchain is used as evidence in a court trial), but also throughout the car.

In fact, it's hard to imagine this system being useful unless there are multiple sensors spread throughout.

Use your brain opie

[Anonymous No.13701852]

>>13701639
Fuck. Chainlink is literally going to enslave us. Everything bounded by contracts.

They planned this for when they get rid of whites. They need a way to keep the subhuman goyim in line.

[Anonymous No.13701855]

>>13701832
Holy shit you are stupid. You are missing the core debate of the question. See>>13701825

[Anonymous No.13701865]

>>13701671
wtf are you talking about? id much rather have my data uploaded to tesla servers than some public blockchain

[Anonymous No.13701868]

>>13701825
This. I think LINK makes sense for crop insurance, but only if the data is taken from NWS weather stations or something else that can't be gamed, If it's IOT sensors on the farmers property, it invites more problems than it solves (nigger farmers hosing down their rain gauges, hairdrying thermometers, etc)

[Anonymous No.13701873]

>>13701855
see
>>13701851

[Anonymous No.13701874]

>>13701790
I don’t think any company would trust just one employee to verify the trust of a large currency transaction. So I don’t see why a smart contract without multiple stages of data triggers would be used.

[Anonymous No.13701885]

>>13701851
And this. But even these link connected cars would be few and far between. Only rich people could afford it at first.

[Anonymous No.13701886]

>>13701865
It's called a TEE and zkps. Data can be kept private

[Anonymous No.13701896]

>>13701832
>no one gets it
>it's all we've been talking about for 2 fucking years
ok

[Anonymous No.13701898]

>>13701868
see
>>13701851
and
>>/biz/thread/S12076959#p12080891

[Anonymous No.13701909]

>>13701874
Yeah layered smart contracts will be very important. They won't just use one data point metric. Probably will want many where to makes it real hard to game the system.

[Anonymous No.13701913]

I don't believe people here even have a degree in the first place, like the most basic arduino shit you do in the first courses in uni for mouthbreathers teach you about how to measure signals and correct them and how it all works, also sensors are cheap af, the only reason your shit isn't filled with sensors everywhere it's because there is no current use case other than data filling and monitoring

[Anonymous No.13701924]

>>13701639


They check multiple factors. OP is retarded if he thinks he can smash a sensor and it pays out automatically.

[Anonymous No.13701929]

>>13701913
The problem is a single sensor triggering a payout that can be manipulated. Or as I was calling it earlier “a subjective input”

[Anonymous No.13701939]

>>13701929

your gpu has like 8 different temperature sensors, every circuit in the world has several temperature sensors that literally cost like 5 cent

[Anonymous No.13701943]

>>13701836
Yes exactly that’s just life

[Anonymous No.13701944]

>>13701929
why do you think there will only be one sensor? I just can't wrap my head around this amount of stupidity.

[Anonymous No.13701949]

>>13701929
"It can be tampered with" is a contract language problem, not a chainlink problem, and contract writers will develop a variety of ingenious ways to foil efforts at manipulation -- that's the easy part. See >>13701851
>>13701830
>>13701819

[Anonymous No.13701954]

>>13701944
How many sensors are there going to be? How hard is it going to be for a person to manipulate each sensor to get an automatic payout?

[Anonymous No.13701957]

>>13701944
>sensor monitoring if a headlight works
>i take a hammer to that headlight
>free insurance money
ok now this is epic

[Anonymous No.13701959]

>>13701855
See, you simply don't get it. Everyone still thinks in centralized terms. Fucking morons.
Hint: privacy will be completely a thing of the past very soon

[Anonymous No.13701968]

>>13701765
credit default swaps is a 10 trillion dollar market

[Anonymous No.13701977]

>>13701639
Yeah baby, once the link team determine the "road quality" of whatever shitty street you're driving on then.... well, then they'll know that information. So they'll have that. So that's good.

[Anonymous No.13701979]

Very based and extremely bullish thread frens. Reminds me of last years comfy threads.

[Anonymous No.13701982]

>>13701639
More like the experts come toncheck your car, takes picture and validates everything on his chainlinked ipad application using docusign bridges.
Then OP gets paid

[Anonymous No.13701995]

>>13701939

I remember some local engineering project for some farming industries that were about putting several arduinos in a large km radious near the hills to detect in real time the weather and automatically close the farming indoors if there were going to have lots of raining or the weather was going bad

They didn't put just one data input, they put a lot of them and it was cheap af to do

[Anonymous No.13701998]

>>13701954
fraud exists now, shoplifting exists now. Life marches on though because they are fringe costs.
If the savings of automated insurance schemes are greater than the uptick of fraud, implementation is a no brainer.

Also, with chainlinked smartcontracts, there is a PERMANENT EVIDENCE TRAIL. Committing blockchain fraud is going to be more risky than it has ever been before.

[Anonymous No.13702009]

>be business
>automate deliveries and payments to pay on delivery
>sensor detects package is in correct spot
>delivery driver confirms it was delivered
>gps in truck confirms location
>employee e-signs on it
>pays out

>open container
>wrong product

dude just need more inputs to prevent subjectivity

[Anonymous No.13702019]

>>13701995
Jesus christ the future is coming fast.

Even some of the most bullish holders don't get it. The architecture is presently in place, the whole building is built, the wiring and the plumbing are more or less already done -- we've just needed someone to turn on the lights.

[Anonymous No.13702023]

What kind of collision is focused on just a small area? Something the size of a hammer hitting as hard as a person swinging a hammer on area the size of hammer probably won't register the same as getting hit by a train. The other sensors will be broadcasting too. Not to mention the sensors in the hammer, it would be trivial for the company to tell that something fishy is going on.

[Anonymous No.13702028]

>>13701957
That will be completely up to the insurer to cover such a thing though. If they’re comfortable with providing this type of service then jokes on them. Also another anon said cars are equipped with 360 cameras now days, I do believe this will play a role.

[Anonymous No.13702031]

>>13701982
>still need an expert to confirm

Isn’t the point of smart contracts to put these types of middlemen of trust out of a job?

[Anonymous No.13702032]

>>13702009
literally btfo'd your post before you posted it >>13701998

[Anonymous No.13702044]

>>13701639
You need to think more on the empowerment of consumers side too.
At the moment, if your car is insured for market value, the market value is decided arbitrarily by your insurer, and a lot ot times, what they give you wont be enough to buy a replacement off the actual market.

Something like a market value oracle would give more power to consumers

[Anonymous No.13702053]

>>13701790
let an extra sensor get delivered with 2 buttons.
Both need to press one button, fixed !
fuck gonna fuck bitches when rich yeehaa
swiet howme yalabama

[Anonymous No.13702057]

>>13702009

Jokes on you we will probably some forehead chip that will be able to validate every fucking product in the world like some walmart cashier before the smart contract even fires

[Anonymous No.13702059]

>>13702044
Just one of many inputs a smart insurance contract might have and need

[Anonymous No.13702075]

>>13701929
You wouldn't even need to break your own car.
What's stopping you from cutting off your cars connection, then emulating your car much like how you emulate a virtual server.

[Anonymous No.13702090]

>>13702075
have you even read anything posted in this thread

[Anonymous No.13702092]

>>13702075

>what's stopping you on fucking around with your power consumption meter

[Anonymous No.13702098]

>>13701851
>to get an insurance payout you need to be lucky enough that the guy who crashed into you had a chainlink connected car
So it can only work if the state mandates chainlink sensors for all cars?

[Anonymous No.13702113]

>>13702009
Sirgay already covered this in a talk last year. Some things are just retarded to try and smartcontract. The pajeet gave the exact same scenario as you did too. How do I know my pine nuts aren't actually corn? If this isn't obvious to you then you probably shouldn't put it in a smartcontract. Smartcontracts are perfect, they do exactly what you tell it to do. If you know this and then try to make it do other things without putting it in there, well sometimes it might not do things that they aren't specified to do. Truck weigh stations and dynamic road taxes make sense. You can't fake the weight nor the road they are driving on. Determining if the truck is carrying manure or mandolins is a little trickier. Use the right tools for the job and you have no troubles.

[Anonymous No.13702129]

>>13702090
Yeah, I read the whole thread
It's a bunch of people handwaving away cybersecurity which is a recipe for disaster

[Anonymous No.13702134]

>>13702113
Once again core debate

Subjective inputs vs objective input

[Anonymous No.13702139]

>>13702129
>cybersecurity
so you haven't read the whitepaper then? it goes into security quite heavily.
fucking newfags.

[Anonymous No.13702141]

>>13702031
You must think of this as «where am i saving money» even if i pay the expert, on whom both the insurance and OP can agree on, you are both saving money from paying the stacies that actually handle the money transfers.
Insurance can deal cheaper plans and OP gets is sure to get paid instantly when the expert report is sent.
Win win situation for both parties.
All other insurance companies must then follow because if you don’t, you die

1k eoy is fud my friends

[Anonymous No.13702145]

>>13702028
Real time video being analyzed by AI...

[Anonymous No.13702146]

>>13702075
Nodes will use fucking cameras everywhere. Cameras on other people's cars. Send drone robots with sensors. Or people. Whatever. Whoever gets reliable, true data out first on the network gets the link.
You guys are not thinking this through.
You're just thinking about how it will be in early stages.

[Anonymous No.13702158]

>>13702031
And also you must consider the trust issue we have when dealing with normal insurance providers, here where it is backed by a smartcontract, OP feels kinda safer with his insurance plan and how the payment is processed automatically

[Anonymous No.13702159]

>>13702134
Subjective becomes objective if enough people agree. That's one benefit of decentralising

[Anonymous No.13702198]

>>13702139
>Consequently, CHAINLINK-SC
does not have direct visibility into oracle responses and cannot itself monitor availability and correctness.

So they literally admit in the white paper that can't do anything about someone sending in false data about their car?
If availability cannot be monitored that means I can switch out my real car with a virtual car and send erroneous data, this applies to anything that's dependent on one user sending information as opposed to many.

It doesn't matter if you have 1 sensor or 10,000 sensors in your car. Do they all have their own connection to some satellite? Of course not, that would be cost prohibitive. It would use one single central connection to a satellite. All you need to do is be the man in the middle.

[Anonymous No.13702227]

>>13702146
I am thinking it through
It's you who thinks Chainlink will make hacking and fraud impossible.

[Anonymous No.13702232]

>>13702145
This is an issue. You’d have to have some sort of automation aspect to this process or it would really slow down efficieny.

I suppose a service for earning link could be developed to review these videos.

[Anonymous No.13702244]

>>13702198
You're retarded. You can easily give a car a unique digital identity and so if the info doesn't come from that identity then it doesn't get accepted.

[Anonymous No.13702250]

>>13702198
LMAO what?
have you read anything in this thread relating to data collection or aggregation?
also >>13701998
fraud will ALWAYS be a thing, it doesn't somehow make link less valuable. no one has ever said chainlink somehow solves fraud completely.

[Anonymous No.13702260]

>>13702227
They just assume it’s fud or “it will all work out” while we may be overthinking it, it is important to look for flaws

No one is denying chainlink has a good usecase or isn’t important to crypto. I just wanted to see what people would come up with. Some reasonable stuff and some ridiculous sci-fi nonsense. Then the idiots who think it’s just blatant fud

[Anonymous No.13702261]

>>13702232
Yeah that's a use case that isn't ready just yet. I'm just throwing it out there because it will likely be possible in the future.

[Anonymous No.13702277]

>>13702260
literally every single one of your arguments has been BTFO by multiple anons
the only half argument you have is for use cases that won't even be a thing for quite a few years. but by then tech will have improved enough to solve these issues.

[Anonymous No.13702286]

>>13702227
Im telling you people will ACCEPT these breaches in privacy.
Don't believe me? No one would've believe the current state of privacy 30 years ago.

[Anonymous No.13702290]

>>13702158
I feel your description descritpion doesn’t fully encompass the idea where this discussion has headed, which is more specifically insurance offerings in autonomous vehicles, which we do know are coming.

[Anonymous No.13702299]

>>13702250
>this white paper proves security is no longer a problem because there are a few paragraphs
You guys are so high on your dreams of the potentially valuation of Chainlink you forget to actually think about the ramifications of it's mass use beyond it making you rich as fuck.

>>13702244
>you can't clone an identity
Yes if you have two cars with the same identity sending signals at the same time that would be a flag, but the car isn't expected to be available always.

My arguments aren't really FUD, basically if you don't get rich with crypto in the next 10 years you're gonna be the underclass in some hellish dysoptia where everything possible is logged and tracked. My criticisms are the same for when IoTA claimed it will do the same thing.

[Anonymous No.13702302]

>>13702277
You keep saying that but have not made a single convincing point to me other than implying I’m fudding.

[Anonymous No.13702337]

>>13702299
>of it's mass use beyond it making you rich as fuck.
true, but in any case we can't prevent its arrival, just like automation. might as well get rich off of it and not suffer the consequences.

>>13702302
i mean like i said, you have a half argument in terms of autonomous vehicles and such, but that's simply because we don't have the tech at current to implement such a thing. but it will come. the first uses of chainlink won't be for auto insurance anyway.

[Anonymous No.13702340]

>>13702250
This is true, but in order for the technology to be adopted there DOES have to be enough security in place to incentivize providers to adopt the solution. I do believe time will fix this.

[Anonymous No.13702355]

Reading this thread feels like reading an old Usenet news group. I think this is really the next step.

[Anonymous No.13702367]

>>13701717
Was Gonna Say, this already exists. No reason to assume More people will commit it Because of smart contracts - but still costsavings possible.

[Anonymous No.13702393]

>>13702337
>true, but in any case we can't prevent its arrival, just like automation.
Well yeah, but Chainlink isn't even the first to promise this type of stuff. IOTA predates it. Which of these will win is to be determined.

[Anonymous No.13702395]

>>13701743
Sergey has stated multiple times that these are issues that must be determined and defined by those who create and enter into the contracts.

He is simply building the frame. Lookup his earlier talks about timeframe’s for diff use-cases.

[Anonymous No.13702404]

>>13701639
What I completely missed when initially reading this is Sergey’s tone. Maybe he wanted us to know it was him.
>”A customer’s driving habits can also determine insurance rates and trigger discounts. Some noteworthy data available to developers include speed limit obedience, distance traveled, maintenance schedules, braking patterns, point of collision, and road quality.”

It’s not as if he’s talking theoretically, he says specifically these data points are available. Hmmm...

[Anonymous No.13702585]

wtf... all these use cases are like year 2200 sci-fi shit. will we really make it in our lifetimes?

[Anonymous No.13702632]

>>13701639
Accelerometers and live updates from the spedometer/accelerator brainlet.

[Anonymous No.13702695]

>>13701663
OP, what the fuck is IoT?
Still need to falsify speed and vector data.
Do you even know how LIDAR works?
Still need to falsify footage from onboard cameras.
Still need to spoof GPS data.
Basically, you are retarded.

[Anonymous No.13702793]

>>13702695
You even know how much a lidar system worth?

[Anonymous No.13702815]

>>13702793
just bought 100k lidars
for 1k

[Anonymous No.13702844]

>>13702695
ALL IN ON LIDAR

[Anonymous No.13703273]

>>13702009
Why do you think smartcontract based delivery will be as unsecure as it is today?

Just adding a single change solves this issue even without smartcontracts, the weakpoint here is the signature, change that to a disposable QR code that is sent to the client with his receipt and needs to be scanned on delivery and the problem is solved.

[Anonymous No.13703281]

>>13703273
>client decides to just not scan it

Teehee sorry never got my product smart contract won’t pay up

[Anonymous No.13703320]

>>13703281
same thing happens as when the client doesnt agree to sign for a package today, the delivery guy doesnt give him the package.

[Anonymous No.13703338]

>>13702793
A shit ton. More than the vehicle itself. And I'm not seeing what lidar has to do with anything.

[Anonymous No.13703567]

>>13702031
That could just be the cops.

[Anonymous No.13703580]

>>13701655
sadly, globalization is the future, everything will be connected to internet,

everything will have a screen

eveything will be recorded

[Anonymous No.13703687]

>>13701957
is driving with broken headlights part of your master plan?

[Anonymous No.13703701]

>>13703580
>eveything will be recorded
What if I told you it already was son?

[Anonymous No.13703809]

>>13703580
There will have to be revenue sharing. It's *your* data, after all. This idea of being able to opt-in or opt-out of data sharing has been floated for years and even by some recent Democratic candidates for Prez. Very likely to be the future IMO.

[Anonymous No.13703972]

>>13701639
smart cars will have persistent collision detection systems to prevent what this brainlet OP is being retarded about.

[Anonymous No.13704502]

>>13701639
Low IQ brainlet, kek. You’re a little new to this aren’t you?

[Anonymous No.13704511]

>>13703972
>>13704502
dude we'll just use magical technology that doesn't exist instead of looking at the core of the problem

[Anonymous No.13704653]

>>13704511
Another low IQ scumbag. The world doesn’t need perfect systems. All it needs are optimizations that can provably save money and deliver extra value for businesses.

[Anonymous No.13704667]

>>13703580
Read 'recorded' as 'rounded' at first glance, which will be a likely case as well.

[Anonymous No.13704736]

>>13704653