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/biz/ - Business & Finance

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13625512 No.13625512 [Reply] [Original]

How does the average Joe benefit from transacting with cryptocurrency?

I understand the argument, that it would be beneficial for companies to use cryptocurrency as a settlement tool (to avoid paying a middle-man percentages on larger transactions). But I don't understand how a private individual benefits from participating in this economic model, where there is no central authority to provide them with security.

To me, it seems like people would always trade not having a central authority for that security?

>> No.13625525

It's simple. Right now they don't. But in the future they might. We've explained it to you in all the complex ways in the last thread. If you don't get it from this, then just accept you don't get it and move on.

>> No.13625549

>>13625512
there are places where central authorities provide exactly the opposite of security, these places are those who will benefit most.

>> No.13625585

you can pay each other and later have proof
no need to pay monthly account payment for your bank
and if interest rates goes to minus, then it could be illegal to have savings, and you need to pay for having "secure" saving account.

>> No.13625586

>>13625525
I saw no explanations of how anyone would benefit in the future, but do go ahead.

>> No.13625723

>go to mcdonalds
>ask for borger
>they ask for payment
>ask if they can wait 3 hours for the 0.003 BTC payment to clear
currency of the future sirs

>> No.13625740

They don't. The entire crypto market essentially is the greater fool theory

>> No.13625759

You don't need to be a big corporate entity to use settlement tools. It could work for houses and stuff

>> No.13625790

>>13625586
Joe has his own bank that he has full ownership of in his back pocket.
What you can do with this is actually too big to list.

>> No.13625813

>>13625723
short sighted glasses wearer detected.

I've never paid more than 2 cents on crypto fees. Eventually someone smarter than you will make a mobile wallet to handle the big brain shit of using BCH.

>> No.13625902

>>13625813
>big brain shit of using BCH
AAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA OH MY GOD AHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHA

thanks for the laugh, retard anon

>> No.13626003

>>13625790
Joe conversely also has to handle all security related aspects of managing said bank.

Why would the broader population ever opt for this, in favour of a centralized institution that can insure your funds?

>> No.13626062

>>13625759
Do you think people would do this themselves, or let someone handle it for them, at a smaller fee then what the bank would claim?

I'm asking because your use-case implies niche, infrequent use. I don't think people would take the risk of handling something like this themselves, in many, many cases.

>> No.13626154

>>13625512
Technically he should benefit from cheaper prices from the companies that start utilizing it buuuuut more likely he won’t even know it’s happening and companies will just shove the extra cash into executive pockets. Your only chance to benefit is to invest in the right ones

>> No.13626193

>>13625512
>put 10 bucks on coinbase in 2017
>split 50/50 between yobit and bittrex
>buy low sell high
>yobit lost all my cash
>ended up with $40 on bittrex
>cashed out payed a few cents in taxes and bought a dualshock controller
>6 cents left on coinbase
>2 dollars left on bittrex
>last weeks boom moved me up to 9 cents on coinbase and 4 dollars on bittrex
>I also got 5 bux in robinhood

>> No.13626365

>>13625512
buy high, sell low
that's the only thing to know
buy high, sell low
this the law that make you grow

>> No.13626415

>>13625512
if all translations are done in crypto you don't pay no tax
therefore average Gaybo can afford to buy more
ans since the maker also pays no tax the price is even lower, making Gaybo ass gape

>> No.13626457

>>13626003
>security related aspects
this is covered by Bitcoin. All you have to do is keep your key safe.
Can Joe be trusted with his own house key? Then he can be trusted with managing his own money. Modern Banking is a very new concept.

Hundreds of years ago people managed their own assets. did we get dumber? I don't think so. People can handle themselves.

>> No.13626482

>>13626062
and what if the technology removes all risk and need of trusting a 3rd party?

>> No.13626506

>>13625902
yet you still can't figure out how to swap crypto and avoid BTC fees.

>> No.13626517

>>13626415
Lol wit you still have to pay taxes. It's much easier to dodge tax in cash.

>> No.13626531

>>13626457
Will people want the responsibility? The current system exists for a reason. In the case that you private keys stolen, there are no chargebacks or insurances.

Also, the house key metaphor is a no-go, since your house key can't be copied that easily, or phished out of your hands in the same ways.

>> No.13626549

>>13626531
>The current system exists for a reason.

yeah because a bunch of rich jews and anglos conspired with the US government to control the money supply

>> No.13626554
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13626554

>>13625512
You do not have central entity mass printing your currency to inflate prices of everything
Imagine the meme picture of 1930s costs of living
that is how average joe would benefit
Also kys you shill, your FUD is too dishonest, low energy, newfageous and forced...at least it;s a signal sth is going on..I'm pumping more bags.

>> No.13626578

>>13626531
once RFID entry is standard (big tech WILL do this) I'll be able to copy your house key by walking next to you on the street.

Nevermind that analogy. Why is that responsibility a bad thing? Yes, it might be hard to ride on our own after being forced to wear training wheels for a hundred years, but people will learn.

My Grandma got by fine without the banks. Your grandkids will too.

>> No.13626584

>>13626482
Re-read my post.

My point was, that if the uses are niche (not that frequent), likely, people would want help with crypto transactions.

(And certainly, entrepreneurial business would be eager to provide this service. Feel free to steal this)

>> No.13626604

>>13626578
Why do we have banks?

>> No.13626634

>>13626554
The fact that you cannot print more of some cryptocurrencies, is one of the best arguments for the benefit of the common man. I think the idea is too grand to be absorbed by the majority, though.

Also, what am I shilling?

>> No.13626635

>>13626584
I don't see a problem with this. Crypto is just a tool, how it's used is up to you.

But think of it this way: those jobs. Let's call them "crypto assistants". They won't last long.

Think of the American states that require employees to fill your gas tank. That's your entrepreneur 50 years after crypto is mainstream.

>> No.13626682

>>13626635

"Those people that help manage money, they won't last long"

If this continues we'd be back to having centralized institutions that now deal in global currencies, instead of local ones.

>inb4 one-world government conspiracy theories

>> No.13626694

>>13626604
to generate money under the illusion of security. To take Innocent peoples money, then shut their doors when markets get a slight bit turbulent.

To create fractional reserves. To lend out money they don't actually have, then shrug their shoulders when the economy collapses.

I don't know dude, if the real answer was "keeping money safe" they have never done that reliably EVER in the history of humanity.

>> No.13626696

>>13626634
>I think the idea is too grand to be absorbed by the majority, though.

Most of the things people do were once in a state where they were too complex for the common man to reap the benefit. The common man owns derivatives of index funds, because it makes money. They don't understand the exact mechanisms whereby they make the purchase and own the asset (or contract) etc.
If it's profitable, dumb people will be sold it by smart people.

>> No.13626698

>>13626634
No idea about the agenda behind this. Your presence here and style of questions are not organic.
My estimate is FUD / slide thread.

>> No.13626714

>>13626698
How are they not organic?

I don't use racial slurs, i guess.

>> No.13626722

>>13626682
lol do we have centralized gas pumper institutions?
No, you just learn how to do it yourself. The tools are no longer hoarded by the elite.

>> No.13626726

>>13626694
They keep money safe every day. Chargebacks are an example, detection of unusual credit-card activity is an example.

>> No.13626755

The real use case for crypto is AI agents delegating to other, specialised AI agents sub tasks using smart contracts.
That is up to 10 years into the future. It will also be part of and the beginning of the technological singularity.
It's unknown if any current crypto currency will be part of it.
What's happening now is people laundering money / riding pumps and dumps / taking extremely early positions just in case we have a breakthrough in the next 2 years or so.

>> No.13626761

>>13626722
We do, they are called banks.

>> No.13626762

>>13626714
Not going to give up my shill detecting methods, yehuda. Start with pajeet threads first to see the difference. Racial slurs would ironically make you less suspicious, still not enough.

>> No.13626764

>>13626726
The great depression never happened. The banks never shut their doors. Americans never lost trust in banks.

And the gas pumpers created an elite cabal to prevent any American citizen access to the extremely complex and esoteric knowledge of gas pumping.

>> No.13626797

>>13626762
I guess you don't really like having the idea of cryptocurrency challenged?

>> No.13626801

>>13626761
And what happens in the future when your average citizen has more financial knowledge than the banker of today?
The day of self service is coming.

>> No.13626810

>>13626797
And you really don't like to acknowledge the many times banks have failed.

They're so new. But humans are so puny that you actually managed to convince them the Banks predate human consciousness.

>> No.13626814

>>13626764
If people thought money (and the handling of it) seemed so complicated, that they didn't mind paying someone else to handle it for them, don't you think the same is going to happen with - an arguably even more advanced and complicated form of money... ?

>> No.13626822

>>13626726
You realize that crypto doesn't exclude the idea of banks, right? It just makes them unnecessary. People can pay for the services of charge-backs and account ID monitoring if they really wish to.

>> No.13626839

>>13626797
Nice strawman ;) roger ver tier of disdcussion

>> No.13626844

>>13625512 want me to wipe your ass too? finger it out on ur own and lurk more phaggot

>> No.13626843

>>13626810
But... This is not about banks failing?

This is about people having a need for security that cryptocurrency, inherently, cannot provide.

>> No.13626846

>>13625512

He thinks his money is safe in a bank, hahaha

>> No.13626865

>>13626814
It's not as complicated as people are convinced it is.

Why do you think the schools refuse to teach kids basic personal finance? Is gender studies really more important than learning how to do your taxes?

>> No.13626866

>>13626839

What was there left to argue with in your previous post? I'm here to discuss ideas.

>> No.13626876

>>13626843
In fact, fiat, inherently, cannot provide security, because the very concept of it includes continuous and systematic fraud, that is, the creation of false currency to make claims at the goods through which the currency gets its value (this by banks, the providers of security).

>> No.13626886

>>13626843
loaded statement. Crypto currency inherently has security that the banks do not. Banks rely on the same encryption that Bitcoin has refined. You should be thanking us.

>> No.13626897

>>13625723
Why the fuck would I pay for food with Bitcoin? It's not like either party is at risk of charging back, nor is there usually any reason for wanting to hide food transactions.
One of the first applications of Bitcoin on the surface web was for goods with high chargeback risk. Last night, I sold $1000 worth of RuneScape gold to a Chinese website. After trading the gp to a guy in Lumbridge bank, the payment appeared on the blockchain, and in just 20 minutes it had a confirmation - as opposed to the 90 days I'd have to worry about a chargeback from someone deciding to scamquit.

>> No.13626937

>>13626876
This is true.

But do you then choose to participate in a system (with safety nets), where a little is stolen from you, at a slow rate, or do you chose to participate in a system where you can lose it all, potentially very easily?

What do you think the masses would chose?

>> No.13626964

>>13626846
his entire argument is based on two false premises.

The first false premise is banks inherently provide security.
The second false premise is that banks provide trust.

They do neither without regulations. Regulations they can lobby and control.

Crypto currency has security built in, so much that it eliminates the need for trust.
That's how we get the word "trustless".

>> No.13626972

>>13626886
Think of it this way,

What would be easiest for me?

To clean out your bank account? Or to clean out your MEW wallet?

>> No.13626981

>>13626937
Entirely false dichotomy, as there is absolutely no reason why coin safehavens can appear where either, due to mutual agreement between coin safehavens, charge-backs can be integrated, or, the customer, if he proves that he has been subject to fraud, can get restitution from his safehaven.

Look at the entire concept of insurance. Now apply it to cryptocurrencies.
Houses can burn down. Get them insured.
You can be subject to fraud. Get your asset insured.
It's not difficult.

>> No.13626989

>>13626964
We are talking security on two completely different levels. The average Joe is probably more concerned with >>13626972

>> No.13626990

>>13626972
You're serious?
Bank account. Easily. Is that a joke?
Social Security numbers are insanely unsafe.

>> No.13627016

>>13626981
Do you think anyone would insure a (potentially very) volatile asset, more favourably, then a bank would insure your fiat?

>> No.13627032

>>13626990
I respectfully disagree. Let's leave it at that.

>> No.13627057

>>13627032
take your social security number. Add 1. That's another real human being you just stole the identity of.

There's zero built in security to SS numbers. They're sequential. I can't add a 1 to my MEW key and get someone else's wallet.

>> No.13627065

>>13626822
But wouldn't the absorption, of all these instances into crypto, just usher in an era of new banks?

>> No.13627081

>>13627057
How do I clean out your bank account from my desk, with your SSN?

>> No.13627204

>>13627081
Start by stealing your entire identity with your government assigned private key (SSN).

The first and middle digits tell me where you live, the last digits is just the number you were born (counts up by 1 for each new person, seriously). That can be used to give an estimation of age.

https://youtu.be/Erp8IAUouus
it's a garbage ID system. And it's your IRL private key.

>> No.13627267

>>13627204
You forgot the part where I take all your money, I think.

>> No.13627360

>>13627267
you log into my bank I don't know dude.
The rest is relatively easy once you've got an identity.

I'd have to break into your house and find the tiny slip of paper or whatever you keep your seed hidden on, if I wanted to get into your crypto shit.

You really have no reason to keep your seed/key on your computer, so hacking is out of the question.

>> No.13627370

>>13627016
insure it with btc then...

>> No.13627488

>>13627360
I don't, really. I just need to have a keylogger installed on your computer, or have you visit a malicious site.

The same, of course, is true for credit-cards, however, banks will help you a lot here (which was my point the whole time).

And no. Your identity is not access to your bank account.

>> No.13627569

>>13627488
what if I'm using a hardware wallet? I can plug this thing into an infected computer and my keys won't get touched, the signing is done on the hardware wallet itself.

Zero sensitive information is accessable by the computer.

>> No.13627604

>>13627488
>Malicious site
Lol. Nobody is buying that in 2019.
Unless you have Stuxnet tier zero-days, a sketchy website isn't stealing your keys. Unless you just give them up.

>> No.13627632

>>13625512
The average Joe is a moron. Maybe he doesn't benefit - we do. :)

>> No.13627691

>>13627569
What if you receive an e-mail, that directs you to an exact (but malcious) replica of a popular site, say, Binance, where you then essentially give away all your funds directly from your hardware wallet?

(Very real world example, by the way)

We could keep going, I'm sure. My point is, if you are cheated out of some cryptocurrency, it's your loss. If you are cheated out of fiat, banks can help you in some instances.

>> No.13627713

>>13627691
And if the banks cheat you out of billions, they steal your money via "bailout". They just can't stop taking, can they?

>> No.13627737
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13627737

>>13625512
shut up and buy chainlink

>> No.13627839

>>13627713
I'm not disagreeing with your sentiment, I'm simply saying that people don't care, because they are more focused on short-term incentives.

>> No.13627846

>>13625512
Bitcoin is a saving vehicle, its not competing with payment processors you retard. Just like gold stored in vaults doing nothing but in Total its worth 8t usd. Explain that you fucking keynesian kike. Go buy your mocha roastie frappe with nano and fuck off if you are too stupid to understan the concept of not wanting to get fucked by (((inflation)))

>> No.13627849

>>13627691
or the bank can screw the seller over
I had someone win a $450 chargeback on the grounds that the transaction that it was unauthorized even though they had called the bank to verify their identity
again, >>13626897

>> No.13627871
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13627871

>>13627737

>> No.13627877

>>13625512
They won't, but we will.

>> No.13627892

>>13627846
Re-read the OP. I was asking about the cryptocurrency model in general. I didn't mention Bitcoin once.

>> No.13627921

>>13627488
What about a hardware wallet? What if I connect my ledger with 100 BTC to the computer? Can you phish it/clone it/get access?

>> No.13627925

>>13627849
I guess this is a (current) unfortunate side-effect of this particular layer of security. I don't think it changes the fact, that most people would want to be without it, though?

>> No.13627978

>>13627892
crypto will never replace fiat im afraid it works as store of value + illegal activities

>> No.13628011

btc has energy used to mine it behind its value, same as gold

>> No.13628054

>>13627921
Here: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Hardware_wallet

"Malware swaps recipient Bitcoin addresses: a hardware wallet won't protect you from being tricked into sending Bitcoin to the wrong address. For example, malware on a PC could monitor for high value transactions and then swap out the recipient's authentic Bitcoin address for an address controlled by the attacker. "

>> No.13628078

>>13627921
>>13628054
Also: https://www.kaspersky.com/blog/hardware-wallets-hacked/25315/

"Using a hacking technique called voltage glitching (applying lowered voltage to a microcontroller, which causes funny effects in the chip) they switched Trezor One’s chip state from “no access” to “partial access,” which allowed them to read the chip’s RAM, but not the flash storage. After that they found out that when the firmware upgrade process is started, the chip places the cryptographic seed into RAM to retain it while the flash is being overwritten. In this manner, they managed to get all memory contents. Finding the cryptographic seed in this dump turned out to be no problem; it was stored in RAM unencrypted, in the form of a mnemonic phrase (meaning actual words instead of random number) that was easy to spot."

>> No.13628136

>>13626755
We already have that breaktrough. It's called Holochain + Holo

>> No.13628165

>>13627892
Then my answer its obvious, no one benefits from transacting in crypto over fiat for normal everyday purchases, but the average joe benefits from holding it. Using crypto for everyday transactions is retatded and doesnt make any sense, thats what bitcoiners have been trying to explain for years

>> No.13628200

>>13628165
Why doesen't it make sense?

>> No.13628223
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13628223

>>13625512
jewish concern-troll spotted. you faggots are falling for it.

>> No.13628263

>>13628223
God forbid that we all learn something.