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/biz/ - Business & Finance

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13237141 No.13237141 [Reply] [Original]

Do people on /biz/ actually pay tax on every crypto trade?

Please assist me with a poll.
https://www.strawpoll.me/17748624

>> No.13237160

IRS nigger fuck off

>> No.13237177

>>13237160
no IRS, genuinely curious because umm, yeah no reason

>> No.13237210

>>13237141
I cashed out $70k+ in profit in the Q1 2018. I don't plan on paying taxes. I'm financially prepared to deal with taxes + penalties in the future if the IRS comes after me.

>> No.13237213

Me and my reporting is fucked for 2018.

>> No.13237221

>>13237141
i've cucked and always paid my taxes desu. i don't give a shit, I don't want them to take all of my gainz. it's fucked but pay to play bro

>> No.13237233

>>13237210
what exchange did you use to cash out $70k anon?

>> No.13237257

fuck off glow in the dark IRS nigger

>> No.13237271

>>13237233
I used Gemini. But I also bought through Coinbase, Poloniex, Bittrex, and Binance throughout 2017. I didn't receive a tax form from any of the exchanges.

>> No.13237281

My cost basis and proceeds are way too high but my closing positions and taxes owed are lined up w my trading from 2018. Could I get away with forming my own cost basis and just sending them a bill? Would I get audited? Tax software I had a cost basis of $2mm and I dont know why.

>> No.13237299

only fags and cucks pay taxes

>> No.13237349

Why is your only options the two extremes and no middle ground?

I pay tax on gains that I cash out to fiat, but I don't on crypto-crypto trades.

>> No.13237363

>>13237349
this is probably the smartest path. they're not gonna dig into every fucking trade and wouldn't even have a clue what IDEX, Cryptopia, etc. are. next time I pay out, I'm just gonna do it on the fiat

>> No.13237367

>>13237141
Yes. So I made about 900k in gains. I cashed out most of it January of 2018. I consolidated all my trades with bitcoin.tax and also hired a CPA. Roughly half of the 900k was on my 2017 tax bill because of crypto to crypto trades. Then I had to pay estimated quarterly payments all throughout 2018 because I cashed out in the beginning of the year and if you know you're going to owe tax that year you're supposed to pay it quarterly.

>> No.13237386

I've run about 12 thousand bucks through coinbase to various wallets and binance. More than 6 thousand undocumented trades in 2018 (take a guess how successful that was). Still have no idea if I should report this close to the deadline.
Option 1: Give them the estimated amount put in at start of 2018, and calculate losses based on estimated total sat value of all crypto assets around roughly end of november (when I did a rough count). All I have to back this "accounting" up is a handwritten note jotted down at work.
Option 2: don't say a thing. If I can't cash out via gift cards, purchases, or metals Ill pay taxes on those gains as one giant lump profit.

No Im not using those crypto tax sites they are expensive as hell for a failed scalper.

>> No.13237420

>>13237349
Ok but be aware you may be committing tax fraud by doing that because of the differences in long term and short term capital gains. If you had been trading between cryptos throughout they year they no longer qualify for long term capital gains rates. So if you fraud and put that you had actually just been holding that one coin the whole time but you fuck up somehow and they discover that there actually has been trading activity you're in some serious shit. Also you're going to have to fraud explanations if you cashed out more coins than you claimed to have bought at first. You don't know what you're doing. Just don't even try.

>> No.13237479
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13237479

>>13237141

>> No.13237480

>>13237420
I don't live in the US, there's no difference between long and short term capital gains.

>> No.13237515

I’m just never going to cash out, I’ll wait for crypto to be mainstream and just directly exchange it for goods and services.

Fiat USD is the ultimate shitcoin

>> No.13237527

>>13237515
You're still supposed to pay tax on it.

>> No.13237541

>>13237210
kek. you can go to jail for just deciding you don't want to pay, it might not just be a fine.

>> No.13237578

>>13237349
I only know how it works in the US tyrannical gov but I will say that calculating every trade was not some big complicated thing, given the right tools. It was largely an automated task of just going through every exchange, downloading the trade history and uploading it onto the crypto tax software. If you're gonna report at all I would say you might as well do it 100% right or don't fucking report anything at all. No middleground.

>> No.13237616

>>13237281

Anyone?

>> No.13237711

>>13237281
>>13237616

Don't change anything. As long as the closing positions look accurate, all the buys and sells match up, and the gain/loss is accurate. It may be showing ALL purchases from the whole year added up in proceeds. So like If you bought 1 coin for 1 dollar and then traded back and forth at the same price 1 million times it might show that you have 1 million in proceeds but have 0 gain / loss. It doesn't matter. If you change it manually the math won't line up anymore.

>> No.13237733

>>13237141
I was about to do taxes, then I realised it's such a stupid tiny amount and I have no income so I can't be taxed on income tax, also later most of my shit went down so much that I almost only traded losses relative to now. If they wanna screw me about 5k or something of which I lost around 6k, they can go ahead.

>> No.13237746

fuck jews fuck society fuck niggers fuck george soros fuck faggots fuck accountants fuck 4 year colleges fuck degrees fuck keynesian economics

>> No.13237754

FUCK TAX
FUCK JEWS
FUCK NIGGERS

>> No.13237774

>>13237754
EY EY DOG FUCK EM JEWS FUC EM KIKES FUC EM IS - RUH - LITES BEDTIME MEANS NOTHING HERE

>> No.13237791

>>13237281
>>13237711
Your gains should be Total Proceeds - Total Cost Basis was a better way to put it. You were about to make up a smaller cost basis which would have made your theoretical gain higher and you would have been inst-audited because the math doesn't line up. Good thing I'm looking out for you retards.

>> No.13237800

>>13237711

Is the IRS gonna investigate if they assume I have $2mm in assets tho? It shows me having 991 ETH or some shit and thats not true. Would it be better to just roughly come up with my own trades?

>> No.13237806
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13237806

>>13237141
sup IRS

>> No.13237865

>>13237800
Ok I thought you said your closing positions were accurate. If you have a whole bunch coins in your closing position reports that you don't have then something is wrong and you should definitely start over or hire a CPA that specializes in crypto. Make sure you didn't upload duplicates of any trade data.

>> No.13237892

> amerifat tax payers BTFO

how would that even work? u have to mention every shitty btc>tether trade on binance?

> tfw u live in europe and just have to list the amount of coins u had eoy

>> No.13237934

>>13237865

My closing positions are like 99.5% accurate

>> No.13238039

>>13237934
Well how is it 99.5% accurate if it shows you have 991 eth that you don't have? Let me say it again. GAIN / LOSS = TOTAL PROCEEDS - TOTAL COST BASIS.

That's all the buys and sells throughout the whole year added up. Having a large total proceeds and total cost basis just indicates the volume of trades you did throughout the year, not how much assets you have. Is the gain / loss accurate?

>>13237892
My tax return was electronically filed and over 100 pages. Mostly of this 8949 form that was not made for crypto at all so looks like utter nonsense. But every single bullshit trade of nigger coin and what not has to be listed on the "Description of Property" column.

>> No.13238097

>>13238039

Yeah the 991 ETH hasnt showed up in my closing positions its just in the total proceeds whch is around 1.9MM.

>> No.13238159

>>13238039
WTF you have to be kidding me! My tax return was 23 pages + 3-4 separate pdfs

lmaooooo

> pour out a little liquor for my frens overseas

>> No.13238181
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13238181

>>13237299
>>13237746
Based

You cunts are fucked. Just start a business and run your taxes through the company. How are you on /biz and not doing this.

>> No.13238845

>>13237141
well these results make me sleep a little sounder knowing the IRS will probably come for you fags that made way more than me before they get down the list

>> No.13238868

>>13237515
This

>>13237527
Only if you're a bitch nigger.

>> No.13238881

>>13237746
>>13237754
Fucking based

>> No.13238895
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13238895

Nice try IRS

>> No.13238947

I only trade in Dogecoin do I have to pay taxes on memes?

>> No.13238948

One of the guys I know who was into ETH in like early 2017 said a lot of the dudes he knows who used local bitcoins or didn't pay taxes had the IRS man come knocking. That information and the fact that this guy sent me BTC to my binance wallet in 2018 ensures i'm going to pay taxes

if you hold it for a year capital gains is like 20%. Have a swing trade stack and a longer hold stack and cash out of the long hold stack.

>> No.13239113

>>13238948
>if you hold it for a year capital gains is like 20%. Have a swing trade stack and a longer hold stack and cash out of the long hold stack.

Here's the thing to be wary of if you do that. The IRS hasn't provided any guidance on what cost basis calculation method to use (FIFO / LIFO / SPECIFIC ID) Some accountants argue that since bitcoins are fungible, and there's nothing distinguishing one of your bitcoins from one of your other bitcoins. If they're right and FIFO is the calculation method you have to use, then as you actively trade with your "trade stack" eventually you'll start cycling through the cost basis of your "long hold stack" because you bought them first and it's First in First out. and then all the gains will become short term capital gains because of your short term trading activity. If you are going to do this, put the long hold stack in a cold wallet and keep proof on the blockchain that they were never touched for an entire year until you sold them. Or transfer them to another entity, make an LLC that does nothing but hold the coins the whole time. (I don't know a lot about that, just something that popped into mind.) But yeah you're either going to have to use LIFO or specific ID when doing this.

>> No.13239120

>>13239113
Fucked a sentence up. Meant to say.
>Some accountants argue that since bitcoins are fungible, and there's nothing distinguishing one of your bitcoins from one of your other bitcoins, that you have to use FIFO.

>> No.13239128

Can't tax it if I instantly lose it

>> No.13239154

I didn't even know I was supposed to be paying taxes, it's not my fault.

>> No.13239338

>>13239113
Yeah my long term holds are in a cold wallet now. Is it acceptable to just figure out what the value of my portofolio was in 2018 versus what I put in as capital for 2018? I bought the top of the bullrun (cause i was an idiot) so i may actually have losses for 2018.

>> No.13239444

>>13237541

You go to jail after the IRS takes you to court and the judge mandates a payment plan and you still refuse to pay. Until then, you have many outs to avoid jail. If what you owe is under a million dollars there is a very real possibility you’ll never get to the point where you’re in court for your taxes.

The trick to Avoid the tax man is to never file your taxes in the first place. There are millions of people who never file and when you’re one of them a physical human has to stumble across your file, issue a report and then you get put in an audit queue which may never see the light of day.

Lots of you are afraid of taxes, it’s pretty funny. There is literally nothing to be scared of. If you made enough money to worry about taxes you’re obviously smart enough to deal with the penalties of delinquency.

If you’re stupid and just stumble onto a large chunk of cash by luck, most cases the taxes will be taken from that sum before it ever reaches your pocket.

tl;dr: the only people worried about taxes are those who will never have the money to worry about in the first place.

>> No.13239814

>>13239444
>Lots of you are afraid of taxes, it’s pretty funny. There is literally nothing to be scared of

I always hear this or the complete opposite (Butt-rape jamal prison because you didn't tell the man about your Bitcoin).

Meanwhile there are some stories online of people putting in their trades for stocks/crypto/selling a house improperly and going through lengthy audits. I just don't know what to believe.

>> No.13239865

>>13237141
you should learn how to navigate tax law.... It's not hard and you can take a $50k obligation down to $8k no sweat.

>> No.13239891

>>13239814
If you routinely make over $140k per year, yes you will be audited more often. Your file is in a different bin so to speak.

>> No.13240101

>>13239338
Changed wifi.
>Is it acceptable to just figure out what the value of my portofolio was in 2018 versus what I put in as capital for 2018?

No, not really. I mean there's literally no form that you even asks you how much capital you put in and what your "crypto portfolio" is worth now. It's just not a thing. What they have is a Schedule D on Form 1040 that says if you don't have each transaction reported on a 1099-B then go record each "tax event" on a 8949 Form and attach it. A "tax event" in this context is every single time you've ever bought or sold a coin or if you traded from crypto to crypto, the fair market value of the coins at the time of transaction. Mining income and airdrops and forks all have to be reported as other income too I think.

>Is it acceptable to just figure out what the value of my portofolio was in 2018 versus what I put in as capital for 2018?

You'll just want to get everything in order from the start regardless. It'll save you a huge headache if/when you actually do make gains.

>> No.13240276

>>13240101
Do you pay for some site to aggregate the data like cointracking.info or do it by hand?

>> No.13240466

>>13239865
bit weird in my case

I am a US citizen (through blood) but I do not live in the states. but as a citizen I have to file US taxes and declare the balance and interests of my accounts in my home country.

I could open a new account here and I can't see how they would know about it but it's probably not worth the risk.

>> No.13240609

>>13240276
Yeah I used bitcoin.tax it would have been impossible to do it by hand because every trade needs to be converted to dollar amounts based on prices at that time.

>> No.13240626

>>13237141
go away IRS

>> No.13240644

>>13237141
I in fact pay 10x extra tax for good luck. This way I don't risk breaking the most sacred of laws, giving money to (((them)))

>>13239891
I claimed 10k last year. My real net probably increased closer to 80 or 90k. Will I get audited?

>> No.13240673

>>13240644
if you cashed out to your bank account, yeah probably bigger chance of an audit. All transactions over $10k are monitored I believe.
best strategy is just to hold 1 year and pay long term capital gains at 10%. Everything else is a risky and complicated laundering operation

>> No.13240688

>>13240673
I cashed out via localbitcoins

>> No.13240695

>>13240688
someone gave you $80k in a suitcase?

>> No.13240773
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13240773

Any fellow Brazilians here know if we have equivalent laws?
I have no clue

>> No.13240877

>>13240695
more like 70k from dozens of people over the course of a year

>> No.13241035

someone explain to me how buying $1000 btc on whatever exchange and then using that $1000 worth of btc to buy another coin/token immediately is considered a taxable event. it's literally converting $1000 into another form of $1000 if it's immediate. no gains or loss

>> No.13241430

>>13241035

Its not.

>> No.13241444

>>13241035
you pay tax on gains. if you guy btc at 1000 then sell it at 1200 for ltc then you are taxed on the 200.

it gets tricky because technically any gains on any shitcoins are supposed to be tracked, and if you only had a coin for 10mins but it went up a bit technically you're suppost to pay for those 0.1% gains.

>> No.13241474

>>13241035
It probably wont cost you anything but it's reportable. Everything is calculated in fair market value at time of transaction. So you'd only owe tax if the value of bitcoin went up relative to the dollar between when you purchased the btc and you trade it for the alt

>> No.13241477

>>13241430
>>13241444
i've been told numerous times they're taxable events regardless if there are no gains or losses, but it really doesn't make any sense since it would be worthless lines on a tax return. the only thing that seems to definitely not be a taxable event is fiat to btc and holding, as an example

>> No.13241509

>>13241477

If theres no profit theres nothing to tax.

>> No.13241584

>>13241477
did you ever look it up yourself? remember that /biz/ is mostly trolls and the vast majority of posters wan't you to lose money.

>> No.13242067

>>13237271
>I’m sorry IRS I didn’t know I couldn’t do that

>> No.13242077

>>13238181
How do you run crypto taxes through a company? Why would you want to do this?
Just say some anon paid you 70k in bitcoin for website design? Actually that sounds like a good idea

>> No.13242088

>>13242067
I'm a bit scared after reading this thread and other stuff on google. Now I'm scrambling to gather all my crypto records.

>> No.13242089

>>13239891
IRS isnt going to spend thousands of dollars to audit anyone if they arent going to get that much plus a lot more. Rich people are easy targets and are whales

>> No.13242107

>>13237141
I PAY TAXES BECAUSE I SUPPORT THE FREEDOM OF MY COUNTRY.

>> No.13242119

>>13242107
The jews have enough

>> No.13242127

>>13242088
Were all your transactions uder 10k?
Do you typically make a lot of money? Do you think the IRS has any redflags?

Also doesnt the IRS warn people before throwing them into jail?

>> No.13242164
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13242164

>>13237271
Letter C on the tax form is for times when you didn't get anything but still did a taxable trade.

>> No.13242294

>>13237141
Yes anon, on every single trade

>> No.13242300

>>13242127
>Were all your transactions uder 10k?
I've had at least a dozen transactions that were worth $10k+
>Do you typically make a lot of money?
$150k+ yearly income
>Do you think the IRS has any redflags?
Only the big chunk of money I wired from Gemini into my checking account in January 2018

>>13242164
Thanks. I'm plugging my API keys into cointracking.info. I'll see what it says.

>> No.13243313

>>13237141
I haven't paid any taxes yet because I haven't cashed out, I intend to pay taxes if I cash out, if the IRS comes after me before that, I'm going to blame IRS while I live stream my suicide and put it in my will to press charges against them.

>> No.13243323

>>13243313
*my suicide in front of an IRS building

I'm going to do my damnedest to do it in a way that'll get the most media attention as well. If they don't just let me pay taxes when I cash out.

Not that I really need to worry considering how bad my losses are.