/biz/ - Business & Finance

[Anonymous No.12961308]

Can UBI actually work, economically?

[Anonymous No.12961318]

>>12961308
no, it's fucking stupid and it would crush your fragile economy.
Austrian economics faggot, look into it.

[Anonymous No.12961324]

It's already failed in places it was tested in.

[Anonymous No.12961336]

Yes it can but not without AI being everywhere.

[Anonymous No.12961350]

The question is how to ensure humans are at the top of the hierarchy when robots automate everything.

[Anonymous No.12961367]

>mfw the Manchurian candidate is actually from Manchuria

[Anonymous No.12961375]

Yeah it's worth a shot. But have you ever watched a congretional hearing on crypto? The people in congress are so stupid I doubt they understand the imminent threat of AI and why ubi is a necessity

[Anonymous No.12961380]

>>12961350
Program the robots that we iz kangz.

[Anonymous No.12961388]

>>12961375
>the imminent threat of AI
Back to reddït

[Anonymous No.12961401]

>>12961380
Yes that is the idea. If we create a society of minds and then tokenize control of that society then we can control the ai we unleash.
Now the question becomes who gets those tokens? UBI lets everyone get them.

[Anonymous No.12961421]

>>12961308
No.

[Anonymous No.12961447]

its only like 2 trillion if you just eliminate welfare that's barely a fraction of the budget

[Anonymous No.12961465]

>>12961308
yeah if he also institutes it alongside the "social credit" system he wants to create and then implements strict authoritarian enforcement of even minor violations, to the point where 20% of the population is in prison

[Anonymous No.12961516]

Two ways to hand out UBI free money.

1. Government creates new money.
RESULT: inflation as the shops and companies raise their prizes accordingly. UBI has become useless.

2. Taxes to raise the money. Again, as with all taxes, businesses raise their prices to put the burden on the consumer.

I honestly cannot fathom why actual legitimate economists are supporting this bullshit.

There's another thread where they're saying replace UBI with basic needs like food and housing. Communism V2, wonder how that will go, lmao.

[Anonymous No.12961528]

>>12961465
>>12961516
When you still can't understand the impact of AI and robotics on the economy you build strawman arguments to protect your own world view. This is a fundamental shift.

[Anonymous No.12961549]

>>12961528
Oh, I understand.
I'm just much more pessimistic about the results. Just because of automation people won't stop being greedy. Communism won't magically start working.
Instead the robot owners become the new world elite and the wage slaves get even less power, as the demand of the labour market becomes virtually non-existent.
You do the math, comrade.

[Anonymous No.12961561]

>>12961528
I understand robotics and AI. I also understand AI has limitations, as all technology does.

[Anonymous No.12961570]

>>12961528
Sure dude Google assistant cant even point me in the right direction to Mac Donald's half the time. AI has a LONG way to go green dreamer.

[Anonymous No.12961583]

It's fucking ridiculous. You're basically going to tax whites at 90% to create a government subsidized Cadillac leasing program.

Anyone who think all the poors are going to use the money for books and school instead of spinning rims and lottery tickets is delusional

[Anonymous No.12961591]

>>12961528
Clarke's Third Law is: Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. And, the argument there is that if it's a sufficiently advanced technology, you can't tell what its limits are. And I got to thinking about this because I would have debates with pundits who were saying, 'Oh, we're going to have superintelligence any minute now. It's going to destroy the world.' 'It's going to do this,' and 'It's going to do that.' And I'd try to argue against it. And they'd tell me, 'Oh, but you don't understand how powerful it's going to be.' Well, how do those pundits know how powerful it's going to be? So, as an example, I thought: What if we had time travel and we could bring Isaac Newton back from the past--the late 17th century--and transport him to today in, say, Trinity College Chapel, University of Cambridge. Trinity College Chapel had been around for a hundred years when he was at Cambridge. So, we'd transport him to the Trinity College Chapel of today; and it would look much the same. We'd probably turn off the electric light and just have a few candles around.He'd be very comfortable. It's--you know. And then, you pull out an Apple--the Apple being an iPhone, this time. And you show him the iPhone. Now, remember, Isaac Newton is the guy who figured out optics, personally--how light through a prism turns into many colors. now you show him the iPhone, and you show him this iPhone screen, which is bright in the darkness, with all these vibrant colors--that's something that he's never seen

[Anonymous No.12961599]

>>12961591
But then you start using the iPhone for a few things. You play him a movie. Let's make the movie a country scene of England with common animals--badgers and, you know, English animals. But it's a movie, and he can see it. And so, the content is not surprising to him: the content of a movie is certainly surprising. And that this little screen is showing these creatures and the sound. Then play some music for him--that was around at the time that he was around, so that he'd know the piece of music. And it's coming out of this tiny little thing. It's amazing.
And they could go on the web. And you can find this--you go and find this personally annotated copy of his masterpiece, Principia. He--you know, he wrote Principia and then in his personal copy he then wrote in the margins, also, notes about it. Well, you show him those pages. His copy. It's inside this little thing in his hand. But there's all this other stuff. Show him more stuff. Like, counting his steps and, you know, the calculator and how quickly it can multiply numbers and stuff. You know, turn the camera on, and it would turn into a mirror for him. You record him and play himself back. Now, what would he be able to say about what are the limits on this device? You and I know some limits. You and I know that you have to recharge it. If you keep using it for a few hours, it goes dead. He certainly wouldn't think of that. How could this amazing device not just keep working? He won't know what limits to put on it, what it's capable of, what it's not capable of. He'll have no reference. He certainly won't be able to explain it.

[Anonymous No.12961618]

>>12961570
>>12961549
>>12961561
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAJkDrBCA6k
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zt2HSTuGBn8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17shdT9-wuA
What is coming is beyond human level understanding. It is quite literally impossible to understand so you are mistaken if you believe you understand it.

[Anonymous No.12961619]

>>12961599
He wouldn't be able to begin to explain this thing. So, when you are asking questions about what it can do and what it can't do, he has no way of knowing, because it's indistinguishable from a magic device for him. And by the way--he was very interested in the occult.
And, you know, he was very interested in transmuting lead to gold. Maybe this device can transmute lead to gold? It can build this out of magic. Why can't it do that? What are its limits?
So, I think that's a good example of--really smart person. Show the person something sufficiently advanced, they are not going to be able to have an hypothesis of how it works, and not going to be able to know its limits. And I think too many of the arguments about the future of artificial intelligence today are made by people who just assume that can do anything. So you can't have a rational argument with them. Because, when you say, 'Well, won't it be able to do x?' they will say, 'Well, of course it will be able to do x. And it will be able to do y and z.

Excerpts from an interview that I think explains things well.

[Anonymous No.12961644]

>>12961308

no

[Anonymous No.12961652]

ubi should only be given to entrepreneurs who actually make things

[Anonymous No.12961655]

>>12961619
>Excerpts from an interview that I think explains things well.

link 2 interview

[Anonymous No.12961723]

UBI in some form or other will happen,
This new wave of automation isnt like anything in the past, the human mind is being replaced. There literally wont be jobs for people with an IQ below 110-120.
This will happen at the exact same time as the economy becomes insanely productive. We will reach a situation in which GDP is massively higher but 80% of people cant find work. In a democratic nation people will vote for redistributionist policies and it will be feasible.
Even now UBI 1k/ month is somewhat feasible.
Total government spending including state level is around 7 trillion or so a year. UBI would cost around 2.5 trillion or so. The idea is to replace a lot of government programs with UBI; pensions, unemployment, welfare, disability, foodstamps, housing etc etc this goes on and one. Realistically if done right total government spending would only need to increase by about a trillion or so.. max.

[Anonymous No.12961726]

>>12961655
http://www.econtalk.org/rodney-brooks-on-artificial-intelligence/

[Anonymous No.12961770]

>>12961723
Boomers aren't going to want to give up what they currently have. I honestly think we have to wait for the majority of them to die off along with AI being everywhere.

[Anonymous No.12961806]

>>12961770
Within ten years every boomer will be retired. Within twenty years most boomers will be dead.
The end of their influence is sooner than people realise. Anyways I am not saying UBI will happen now, only that even now it is more feasible than people think. 10 years or so from now it will not only be feasible, but expected by the population.

[Anonymous No.12961844]

>>12961806
UBI will also de incentivize mass immigration. Right now elites in the west benefit a lot from mass immigration, under an automated UBI economy the elites and government would be directly incentivized to push for less people not more.. no more mass immigration.

[Anonymous No.12961893]

There are literally hundreds of billions of $ going wasted to bureaucracy. Then more hundreds of billions going to the deep state/shadow government. The fact is we are all fucked with or without UBI. Might as well have UBI. And yes they'll figure out a way to fund it either by more wars or bigger taxes. Yang wants to tax tech companies more. Oh btw I'm not in United States of Israel so it won't benefit me at all lol.

[Anonymous No.12962072]

>>12961308
hyperinflation is great for bitcoin and gold.

[Anonymous No.12962080]

According to Australian economics it will never work.

[Anonymous No.12962087]

>>12961308
I hope the USA will do UBI and burn to the fucking ground. It will finally be our time once the US is ineffective.

[Anonymous No.12962103]

>>12962080
Australian economics is outdated lolbertarian trash.. same with austrian

[Anonymous No.12962211]

>>12961516
>posts boomer economics
Hey bud, we printed 4 trillion for QE and 1 trillion for literal boomer bailouts called TARP. We can easily print money for UBI. If you don’t like it move to South America or go into a retirement home. The boomer era is OVER. No more austerity

[Anonymous No.12962222]

>>12961583
Hey boomer retard, the 1k is a credit so people already getting over 1k in welfare get NOTHING. Go do some research or better yet kill yourself

[Anonymous No.12962237]

>>12961618
I understand that it's beyond understanding bro

[Anonymous No.12962263]

>>12961528
No. We understands ai Completrly. What YOU don’t understand is economics.

All of you faggots are running from a simple truth: the vast majority of humanity, the part of humanity with no coding skill, that cannot maintain and build the machines of the future, without the intellect to understand crypto protocols, will need to die. Thanos style.

And it’s whats going to happen whether anyone like someone it or not. The forces at work, human nature reacting with economics reacting with this technology, has made it inevitable.

[Anonymous No.12962265]

>>12961308

As a NEET I not only condone Yangs running but dare I say he's /biz/'s president?

[Anonymous No.12962275]

>>12962263
>All of you faggots are running from a simple truth: the vast majority of humanity, the part of humanity with no coding skill, that cannot maintain and build the machines of the future, without the intellect to understand crypto protocols, will need to die. Thanos style.
Guess what moron, they have guns.

[Anonymous No.12962277]

>>12962080
According to common sense Australian economics will never work.
But anyway the mainstream monetarism view of economics also refutes it, see >>12961516

>>12962211
Mate I'm not against printing money, as economic stimulus it's great. But it still causes inflation, that's the point.
UBI is the equivalent of eternal QE, cutting out the middleman way of banks buying gov bonds at reduced prices from the Fed (which is how they conceal their printing of money and giving it to big banks).
UBI is equivalent to cutting interest rates instantly to near-zero. If you think shopkeepers won't act accordingly and raise their prices as response to that you don't understand economics at all.

[Anonymous No.12962295]

>>12962103
there are alot of good MMT economists from ausfailia

[Anonymous No.12962299]

>>12962275
Well then everyone will kill each other retard.

This isn’t going to be a planned event you fucking dumbass. It’s just going to be a mass stavration/war reacting to the economic realities. Our current economic system has allowed far too many people to breed that is sustainable or economically feasible

[Anonymous No.12962319]

>>12961308
seems to work with black people since something like over 50% are on some sort of gibs

[Anonymous No.12962322]

>>12962275
Guess what moron, soon the robots will have guns.
And they're not afraid of dying, or serving without question.

[Anonymous No.12962323]

>>12962211
>>12962222
based. fuck boomers

[Anonymous No.12962354]

>>12962299
The end result of the decades of technological progress isn't going to be a collapse. If we can create a smartphone, we can innovate in the realm of economy.
>>12962322
People are not going to code robots that will kill their own families.

[Anonymous No.12962368]

>>12962354
I'd do it if the pay was good.
Because I'm the coder my family gets to live, anyway. They need me.

[Anonymous No.12962377]

>>12962277
You have literally no understanding of economics. Your posts in this thread are cringeworthy. QE and ZIRP cause prices to fall by causing excess capacity. You can try to do mental gymnastics to explain why people should not get free money but you will be laughed and and ignored. Boomers already implemented UBI for boomers, it is called pensions, social security, TARP, QE, and other boomer bailouts. Now it is time to bail out Gen X and Millennials. Get on board or get out of the way FAGGOT

[Anonymous No.12962419]

>>12962377
QE causes prices to fall? Wait wait. Expanding the monetary supply causes prices to fall?
HAHAHAHA I'm not even going to reply to the rest

[Anonymous No.12962437]

>>12962368
>Because I'm the coder my family gets to live, anyway. They need me.
Nope, that's not part of the deal. The AI is sentient now and it can rewrite its own code. Sorry, anon.

[Anonymous No.12962472]

>>12962437
But that's where the restrictions on creating a singularity come in. AI rewriting their own code might scare even the world elite. I'll take my chances.

[Anonymous No.12962502]

>>12961528
UBI is tailoring human interaction to allow for maximum dependence on such things. by not instituting it, the machines will be built in a way that serves humanity more beneficially, because such systems need consumers and won't scale easily unless they're implemented in a way that is beneficial. changing the global economic paradigm massively in order to allow a fast scale up of such systems is a precursor to a mass culling and world enslavement by the elites who own it, whether that enslavement is literal or something like Brave New World. I realize the world isn't perfect as it is but UBI pushes us over a cliff that only goes against the interest of the common person.

[Anonymous No.12962584]

>>12962377
>Boomers already implemented UBI for boomers, it is called pensions, social security, TARP, QE, and other boomer bailouts.

yes, and these programs financially crippled the generations that followed.

[Anonymous No.12962612]

>>12961308
No and it's a scam.
They stole their whitepaper from Fabric Token, which also had bad economics.
And they are basically the same as FT except their devs are worse, they're behind on working products and they've faked a few partnerships.
Stick to high-cap coins, I used to baghold FT so I'm into this shit, it's not worth the time and money. Anything outside top 40 coins is not worth looking at.

[Anonymous No.12963065]

The only people shilling against UBI are jews and people who aren't american.

UBI will work and the country will be unironically be saved.

[Anonymous No.12963119]

>>12962263
This. I think all of this technology will actually force a sort of meritocracy to happen. You will need to actually generate value. It won't be like boomers where you could kind of skate by for an entire lifetime. Or like the current system where anyone who isn't white gets power-ups.

Or our benevolent overlords will just kills us via 5G, Sun shedding its outer corona, processed foods w/unsafe pesticides, etc.

[Anonymous No.12963288]

Yes, poors will spend it right back into the economy. The threat of AI is too large otherwise to do nothing about it.

[Anonymous No.12963306]

>>12962612
this tbqh

[Anonymous No.12963309]

Automation is going to be a huge problem for the future of the economy, but I think UBI is going to be worse.

I don't know what the solution is going to be once everyone starts losing their jobs to automation, but it's not UBI. There might not even be a viable solution to the problem, and 90% of humanity might just become obsolete and start living like third worlders.

[Anonymous No.12963327]

UBI was only proposed by Friedman, because the welfare system is unfair. It creates a special class of shitskins that get to leech off of everyone else.
Friedman doesn't even like UBI, but if there is a welfare system, everyone should benefit from it equally.

[Anonymous No.12963334]

>>12961308
Economically, yes. Politically, no.

[Anonymous No.12963355]

>>12961308
NO. REDUCE TAXES THEREFORE REDUCING COST OF LIVING.

[Anonymous No.12963368]

>>12961516
Make it so that prices aren't allowed to go up.

[Anonymous No.12963378]

>>12961308
at least as well as perpetual war in the middle east with no spoils

[Anonymous No.12963628]

>>12963327
Friedman proposed a negative tax, it was quite different to UBI

[Anonymous No.12963645]

>>12961318
Austrian economics is economics for people who have never taken an Econ class. Tell me how it addresses the inevitable mass technological unemployment.

[Anonymous No.12963652]

>>12961388
Found the boomer. You obviously work in an office that's way behind technologically. Fucking everything these days is about automating and cutting hours.

[Anonymous No.12963659]

YANG 4 PREZ 2020!!!

[Anonymous [O1G] No.12963665]

>>12961308
yeah the math adds up but it's probably a very bad idea it would fuck us worse than communism.

[Anonymous No.12963669]

>>12963645
your mass tech unemployment is currently a fantasy, hard to argue against a fantasy. What would likely happen though, is if no jobs are needed, the price of everything would be so low, you would only work for a little while and have enough.

Consider this example, 3d printed houses. Okay we took a lot of homebuilder's jobs away. but now you can buy a house for $1,000. but there's still a dozen other sectors that haven't been automated away.
at no point does welfare become necessary, besides maybe some program to alleviate the temporary jobs lost. but its not like these things happen overnight, so people have time to prepare anyway.

and mass automation is just a myth pushed by people who have little real world experience. we're nowhere near mass automation.

[Anonymous No.12963687]

>>12963669
We are very close to mass automation. I've been working in the corporate world for several years now. Even simple programs like Alteryx a d UIPath are enough to automate a sizable percentage of office jobs.

[Anonymous No.12963698]

>>12963687
office jobs are basically meaningless. it's construction and energy that are gamechangers.
when amazon wiped out retail, it just created a new internet economy

[Anonymous No.12963711]

>>12963698
Meaningless? Tell that to the tens of millions of office workers in the US. You can't have a functioning economy when there are tens of millions unemployed. The truth is that there's no way we'll be able to have a capitalist economy without socia democracy.

[Anonymous No.12963716]

>>12961619
Thanks anon. Quality read and thought

[Anonymous No.12963725]

>>12962377
So this is the power of HRT.....

[Anonymous No.12963727]

>>12961308
the rich will have to pay for UBI if they want to avoid social unrest. They would not like to live in a place where you have 90% of people so poor they would start targeting you just to survive.

So it is better to pay 1k to everyone and live your peaceful life with your automated companies.

[Anonymous No.12963734]

>>12963711
>all the horse breeders will go out of business!
Please, I'd love to not have to work, but a few data analytics jobs are not tens of millions, and its certainly not automating plumbing, roads, and all sorts of shit that accounts for most jobs that are not possible to automate. Robotics is not even close to being affordable or even capable of this sort of stuff.
Even if it does happen it will be so slowly that we will adapt to it and fix the problems beforehand.

[Anonymous No.12963738]

austrian economics are retarded, but so is UBI. In order to solve the issue of automation, we need to initiate a Butlerian Jihad against the thinking machines.

[Anonymous No.12963743]

>>12963734
It is indeed tens of millions. We are a service economy.

[Anonymous No.12963754]

>>12963743
so why haven't the jobs been lost yet?

[Anonymous No.12963761]

It would require a bunch of changes to other areas of the economy and labour laws(removing the minimum wage, for example) but it could potentially work. People who just work to live are probably not all that motivated to do a good job anyway and most people work to get better stuff, same as always.

[Anonymous No.12963771]

>>12963754
Basically inertia. It's going to happen over the next few years.

[Anonymous No.12963776]

>>12963727
Actually that's precisely what the elites want. Basically feudalism for the 21st century. You have a small number of people at the top who own all the industry, all the machines, etc and then a massive indiscernible horde of plebs with welfare checks whose only purpose for being kept around is that they'll spend their gibs on whatever shitty consumer goods you're shitting out. Hell, that's basically what we're starting to already have in some of the cities like San Fran and NYC.

[Anonymous No.12963780]

>>12961308
Isn't he planning to implement it by stripping poor people of ALL benefits and replacing them with UBI? Government is already subsidizing billions of dollars worth of painkillers and grape soda. Throwing one trillion worth of state money into economy on top of that won't do much harm.

[Anonymous No.12963789]

>>12963771
sounds like enough time to reskill...

[Anonymous No.12963792]

>>12961308
Yes but only once AI takes most of the jobs, which honestly won’t be too far away

[Anonymous No.12963804]

>>12963645
The "inevitable automation dystopia" theory seems to believe that the total number of possible work positions is finite. For every new machine created to substitute a job position, many other possibilities will be created. Take computers as an example, perhaps the tool that has provided us with the most automation power in history. Now compare the number of jobs eliminated by the invention of the modern computer to the number of jobs it has created (that is, about 50% of current jobs). Second, automation will reduce the cost of production wherever it takes effect. Automation in the car industry made them accessible to nearly everyone in first world countries. The positive externalities of automation will then:
1- Make products cheaper for everyone
2- Create more job possibilities from the technology developed
3-Take those jobs that pose a higher injury risk, leaving the safer ones to human workers (since the salaries for those are higher for taking the hazard risk into account, but these costs are not present when a machine is doing it)

It is perhaps the simplest economic principle, the needs are infinite while the resources are not, hence we will always need more labour force to supply for those.

[Anonymous No.12963805]

>>12963789
Enough time to reskill for a responsible person with functioning brain. Not an average retarded dropout factory/trucker/customer service american.

[Anonymous No.12963813]

>>12963789
A few problems with that. 1.) Most working class people don't have the time or the resources to upskill (and not earn money) rather than work and 2.) most people aren't intelligent enough to make a living out of programming. Your libertarian fantasy world simply doesn't hold up to reality. We are going to need to a massive safety net.

[Anonymous No.12963827]

>>12961388
You do realise once automated cars become a mainstream thing it will start to become a problem? Have you fucking seen the AI that is around now? Imagine 50 years from now.
You should probably watch this
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7Pq-S557XQU

[Anonymous No.12963840]

>>12963780
The math has long since been in, stop taking the rhetoric at face value and take two seconds to figure it out. The 10% VAT, even after consolidating all the other public assistance programs (i.e. Jamal the Snap recipient gets more and Ethel the Social Security recipient gets the same) would only cover about 25% of the additional cost UBI represents. UBI would still add 2.7 trillion to the deficit annually.

[Anonymous No.12963845]

>>12963776
if the elites didnt have that precognition, it is very likely they had no ability to hold their wealth. Which is why UBI is inevitable, either that or they find a way to wipe out all poor leeches with some poison or something, once automation kicks in.

[Anonymous No.12963855]

>>12963804
Typical boomer response. This isn't comparable to the industrial revolution. We're talking about artificial intelligence. These are programs that are closing the loop entirely. Forget about more job opportunities being opened.

[Anonymous No.12963864]

>>12963813
maybe. i could be wrong. BUT. i have no faith in the government to do it smartly. we're going to be fucked in that regard. especially democrats who have white genocide as their top priority.

[Anonymous No.12963867]

>>12963804
The only problem with this thinking is that it assumes people are blank slates to be molded to whatever is needed. But the problem is the jobs that are being replaced by automation (or being moved overseas) tend to be the sorts of jobs that lower-IQ, unskilled plebs are qualified for. Okay, sure, let's say the vacuum gets filled by more technical white-collar jobs. Well, those people who were on the lower-end of the bell curve will not be able to perform those new jobs. What then?

[Anonymous No.12963889]

>>12963804
>Create more job possibilities from the technology developed
This just doesn’t happen anymore, Innovation no longer “creates jobs”. The innovation we have now creates more wealth while needing less human labour. Netflix is a great example of this, netflix banks more profit then blockbuster ever did.

[Anonymous No.12963905]

>>12961308

why did yang have to resort to pajeets shilling his campaign on fucking 4chan of all places...

> really makes you think

[Anonymous No.12963920]

>>12963805
>>12963813
It's not even just about not having time to learn new skills. It's that many people will be literally incapable of performing the more technical-minded jobs of the future. Both due to lower IQ as well as crystallization of intelligence (ie, can't teach an old dog new tricks)

I unironically think the best solution is to put serious restrictions and regulations on automation. For example, I believe truck driving is one of the biggest employment sectors in America. Self-driving cars would completely cripple a massive swathe of the population. So ban them. Just ban self-driving cars. Libertarians can sperg about it not being optimal for GDP or whatever the fuck, but there are more important things than that to keep a nation stable.

[Anonymous No.12963941]

>>12963920
I don't think I hate anyone more than I hate libertarians. It's the most sociopathic, boomer-tier philosophy on Earth.

[Anonymous No.12963946]

>>12963867
So, you expect the lower quartile IQ group to develop in the job market by (((keeping them in their place with gibs)))

[Anonymous No.12963953]

>>12963867
Then they die in poverty and anguish, just like happened to a bunch of people in the industrial revolution.
The AI revolution is going to be so much worse, though. Lawyers, doctors and software engineers are going to go the way of craftsmen and farmhands. And the backlash will be too late; elites are pushing UBI because it's an underhanded way to inject trillions of newly printed fiat as an economic stimulus. They're hoping this will buy them enough time before the next crash to mass produce boston dynamics killbots and racially-targeted super ebola. Then they get their degenerate 'utopia' with a planet of robot servants.

[Anonymous No.12963961]

>>12963889
And you say that based on what?

[Anonymous No.12963974]

>>12963946
No, I'm against UBI and think it's not an actual solution to the problem of automation. It's effectively just the corporate kikes cutting a rebate check for all the money they're saving by cutting the common man out of the equation, which would be money that would just go back to line their own pockets anyway.

I do think the issue of automation is very important and something that needs to be discussed more though.

>>12963941
Agreed, which is why I'm against UBI and automation. Butlerian Jihad NOW, unironically. Because if we don't stop them from using automation, we're all going to end up as neo-feudal peasants on Shlomo's fiefdom.

[Anonymous No.12963977]

>>12963920
>For example, I believe truck driving is one of the biggest employment sectors in America. Self-driving cars would completely cripple a massive swathe of the population. So ban them. Just ban self-driving cars.
It's a strange world to be in where we have to artificially keep people in dangerous jobs so that they don't starve.

[Anonymous No.12963980]

>>12963920
>just ban progress, dude lmao
Those self-driving cars will make economy more competitive and virtually all goods more affordable to everyone at the cost of employment of a couple of million of truckers. Latter one is definitely an issue that needs to be dealt with but autopilot trucks are still a net positive for everyone else.

[Anonymous No.12964000]

>>12963941
the "sociopathic" model has been the most successful in history, while dreamland commietopia has resulted in the most genocides and deaths in history, over 12 times. can you see why people don't want it?
grow up.

[Anonymous No.12964003]

>>12963920
>I unironically think the best solution is to put serious restrictions and regulations on automation.
Let's be real, that's not happening. If it saves businesses a fuck ton of money and can navigate more efficiently, it's here to stay.

[Anonymous No.12964011]

>>12963974
meant as a reply to >>12963953

>>12963941
Yeah, ideological libertarianism is fucking gay. I used to agree with them, but it honestly only went as far as "I don't like niggers leeching off my civilization" and everything else was a rationalization in an autistic desire to be universally consistent.
I wish the Right wasn't so shackled to boomer-tier lolberg bullshit. For generations the Right has been paralyzed from doing fucking anything because they've been too fucking pussy to use the power of the state to get anything they want done. Hell, even Trump has turned out fucking terrible in this regard. Won't even lift a finger to push for free speech policies on social media platforms, despite all the people that worked to getting him elected in the first place have all been completely silenced. All because boomer conservatives think "hurr durr they're private companies they can do whatever they want :^)"

[Anonymous No.12964019]

>>12963961
Look at the world we live in, you say based on what but I just gave you a example you brainlet fuck!!! Tell me what New jobs have been created in the last 50 years apart from bullshit government departments which get closed down and new ones remade. IT is probably the only new job creation in the last 50 years and honestly have a look at where IT comes in of the % it makes up of the work force.

[Anonymous No.12964029]

>>12964000
It actually hasnt, and your use of "commie" only shows how much boomer-tier nonsense has hijacked your critics thinking skills. Humanity has been collective for most of history.

[Anonymous No.12964030]

>>12963980
This is no different than the "you should be grateful millions of Pablos are infesting your country because their cheap labor makes your toilet paper cost a couple pennies less" argument.

Also "progress" is a buzzword.

>>12964000
And here we have the false dichotomy that anything that isn't unbridled laissez faire capitalism is gommunism.
Your free market has never existed. Societies have always put in place measures to rein in the free market, to some extent or another.

[Anonymous No.12964040]

>>12964011
trump has been a bit busy because the left is literally trying to kill him.
he's about to sign an order blocking to funds to universities that are stifling free speech, actually. trump doesn't have the resources to take on google and twitter right now. hell they're the ones funding his opposition.
and trust me, it's not the conservatives supporting this. There was a court case in 1850 where corporations owned the public walkways, so the only place to speak was there. The court ruled the corps had to allow free speech in that area.
it's an argument many conservatives have been making about social media platforms, while the left has only been abusing the power and sticking their fingers in their ears.

[Anonymous No.12964043]

>>12964000
https://youtu.be/QnIsdVaCnUE

[Anonymous No.12964068]

>>12964043
>nigger infested commie welfare 99% democrat controlled FLINT michigan
WOW really joggins the noggin wtf i hate ... oh wait its the leftists fault again

[Anonymous No.12964069]

>>12964040
Not an excuse. He's got plenty of time to warmonger against some random south american shithole and spend the last two weeks sperging out that some somali in congress called out AIPAC on their shit.
The issue of free speech should be his #1 issue. Perhaps even before the wall/immigration, because without free speech online, he and his followers have basically zero voice and nothing else matters after that anyway. If he doesn't stop the behavior of twitter/facebook/google/amazon etc by expanding the rules governing utilities to also include these platforms, we're fucked.

[Anonymous No.12964076]

>>12964069
there can not be any free speech when 70% voting shitskins are flooding the borders to eradicate the 1st and 2nd amendment, you realize that?
These people are voting, 70k illegals caught in Texas, probably a million in california

[Anonymous No.12964099]

>>12964076
That's a nonsequitur and doesn't address what I said.
Those votes only matter during elections. He's not due until 2020. By then he'll have had 4 years to work on something, and he hasn't.

Keep in mind there's a wide berth on what he's able to do through executive order, especially considering agencies like the FCC are under executive purview.

[Anonymous No.12964109]

>>12961308
>giving nigs and spics even more free money
Whatcouldgowrong.jpg

[Anonymous No.12964120]

>>12964099
i'm saying you only have enough political capital, you don't want to rock the boat by doing too many things at once that could be unexpectedly unpopular. not only that, actually implementing it takes resources.
he was voted in to build the wall and he's doing that.

congress doesn't even understand the internet, so they could revolt over it. who even knows if trump understands it himself, besides twitter being an ass to him

[Anonymous No.12964143]

>>12964120
Popularity only matters in election seasons. Nobody remembers fuck-all except for the last few months before an election.
And a free speech policy for online media would not be unpopular. The only people who would be against it would be the jews and leftists who hate him anyway and want to use censorship to stop his ideas.

You are seriously undervaluing the importance of this issue. There won't BE anyone left online to even support Trump in 2020 at this pace. (and of course that's besides Trump cucking hard and totally deflating all excitement/momentum for Trumpism, but that's another topic and I'm sure you've got apologetics for everything)

[Anonymous No.12964172]

>>12964143
none of these are new problems. they were all there in 2016 for the election. if what you was saying was true pol would not even exist.

[Anonymous No.12964178]

>>12964109
Found the boomer.

[Anonymous No.12964193]

[Anonymous No.12964203]

>>12964109
I don’t think thats what a lot of pro Ubi are trying to say, it’s not even about their governments giving everyone a free go. It has a lot to do with the threat of AI. As one anon has stated about transport. This makes up something like over 30% of the work force, what happens when automated transport becomes mainstream, that’s over 30% unemployment, that’s more than the Great Depression. What will happen then anon? Please explain your great idea?

[Anonymous No.12964208]

>>12964172
You need to open your eyes, senpai. Obviously censorship existed back then and it was a problem back then too. But they've clamped down far harder in the years since he's took office. To sum it up, they never thought Trump could ever get elected, but he did. This freaked them out and they set out to make sure something like this couldn't happen again, and so from 2017 onward, the amount of censorship across all platforms has increased at an alarming rate, and continues to as well. It's much worse now than it was in the leadup to 2016.

[Anonymous No.12964218]

>>12964109
to be fair, niggers and spics already receive their monthly gibs. It's just that UBI proponents (which I am not) want to expand that to middle/upper class people as well (ie, mainly whites). The niggers are getting their gibs either way.

[Anonymous No.12964219]

Who else using their yang neetbux for the next ETH pump?

[Anonymous No.12964228]

>>12964208
Hopefully they'll succeed

[Anonymous No.12964249]

no, when there is no incentive to work...society will collapse.

[Anonymous No.12964268]

>>12964208
Also, it's not censorship, it's deplatforming. Maybe once twitter is broken up and becomes nationally owned we can talk about censorship, but currently these are private businesses enforcing their own policies (however vague they are, it's their prerogative). Don't like it. Join the progressives and start a revolution. If not then please stfu, it's all empty air.

[Anonymous No.12964274]

>>12961367

He's from Schenectady NY

Kind of cool because I used to commute to SUNY Schenectady

[Anonymous No.12964368]

>>12964268
>Also, it's not censorship, it's deplatforming
obviously a form of censorship
>but currently these are private businesses enforcing their own policies (however vague they are, it's their prerogative).
Not a lolbertarian, fuck off with that shit. We already have the legal infrastructure to move toward free speech policies on social media. You cannot shut off someone's water for their political views. You cannot disable someone's phone or internet service for their political views. The precedent is already there, the law just hasn't caught up with the changes in technology since the 90s.
>Don't like it. Join the progressives and start a revolution
cringe

[Anonymous No.12964558]

I'd only support UBI if we got rid of kikes and sent non-euros out of the west

[Anonymous No.12964958]

>>12961844
out of your mind

[Anonymous No.12965517]

>>12961308
a big problem with it is that the existing welfare system will still be in place, and that it will encourage even more single-motherdom and the degeneration of family values and intelligent breeding. The blackpill is that humanity is unsustainable and for a post-scarcity utopia to exist, 90% of the population will need to be eliminated and replaced with biodiverse nature. Industrial society is a plague upon the Earth and humanity need not extinguish itself completely, but only the strong will survive.

[Anonymous No.12965526]

>>12962265
he's the only AI realist to ever run

[Anonymous No.12965702]

this is no different than the first industrial revolution. There will be new jobs. If you tell someone from the 1800s that 200 years later you can make a living off drawing furry porn it wouldn't seem like a job at all

decades from now you can make a living off live streaming your room as you perform daily routines, or selling your real time biological/emotional data through Chainlink

[Anonymous No.12965749]

>>12961583
You've made high-skilled white Cadillac employees richer AND managed to tax the UBI back to the government via lottery tickets. Literally a win-win, what the fuck are you smoking.

[Anonymous No.12965780]

>>12961308
Yed

[Anonymous No.12965851]

>>12965780
I don't get this picture. NEETs are jews much more often than not.

[Anonymous No.12965969]

>>12962419
>economically illiterate person tries to be edgy
You are sad

[Anonymous No.12967074]

>>12961375
why do you even care
let them fall flat and then catch up

[Anonymous No.12967294]

>>12965851

Yang is /biz/'s guy.

[Anonymous No.12967304]

>>12965851
>NEETs are jews
take it back

[Anonymous No.12967361]

>>12961401
And how will that work multi-generationally?
Also why should everyone gain access to it? There is limited space, there will be an enourmous amplification in the surrounding wealth, no one is going to be starving. We don't need UBI.

[Anonymous No.12967419]

>>12961549
It's not even just greed man. You, me, and Mr Berg take my UBI and invest it, Tyrone and Lakisha take their UBI and spend it on drugs, Carlos takes his UBI and sends it to his grandmother in mexico.

Now we have differences in wealth again and nothing is solved. Likely we will see even worse issues because young, hungry, smart people now have access to large amounts of wealth and can easily cannibalize eachother

[Anonymous No.12968059]

>>12961308
It could work, but it doesn't account for the absolute fact that the price of everything would rise, considering everyone knows you're $1000 richer

[Anonymous No.12968216]

>>12963368
Just like in venezuela how they made it so the cost of food was controlled by the government and then it worked out for everyone.

[Anonymous No.12968237]

Kurggzesagt says it works so it works

[Anonymous No.12968287]

>>12963771
actually it's boomers. boomers still go to brick and mortar stores and refuse to use the self checkouts. after they become less of the population, corporations will cater to them less. they already are now. retail is dying out fast. the future is amazon and postmates. basically instead of everyone working for min wage at target they will be working for mileage based pay at postmates or grubhub,uber etc.

[Anonymous No.12968469]

>>12962277
How will it cause inflation when they are not printing more money. They are redistributing it. Much of it is already issues out as welfare and the rest comes from a VAT tax which is only 10%, substantially lower than almost all developed nations. Also, most of that money will go right back into the economy.

[Anonymous No.12968484]

>>12963065
Based Yang

[Anonymous No.12968572]

>>12968059
Not true. First off there is no inflation because he's not creating more money. Second, sure a few businesses try to raise the cost, but then one business doesn't and steals all the customers and the others are forced to drop prices back down.

[Anonymous No.12968577]

>>12961308
Y A N G A N G

[Anonymous No.12968604]

>>12961318
austrian economics is complete bullshit retard. Ubi would fail either way.

[Anonymous No.12968666]

>spend $20 now
>receive $12,000/yr in 2020
>receive $48,000 from 2020-2024
>receive $96,000 from 2020-2028

seems like a good investment to me

[Anonymous No.12968692]

>>12968572
Bro, the inflation of the USD continues to grow. The debt continues to build up. When are you going to realize the federal reserve system is a separate entity of the US. It's a private international bank that ties to the Rothschilds banking family. The country was hijacked and they stole the heart out of the economy of the states. UBI will not work and socialism will lead to a worse outcome. Trust me, I grew up in the ghetto and people abused the welfare system. $1,000 a month will have to come from somewhere. A VAT tax? Taxing corporate America? It's already high. Let's make it higher. Fuck that bro.

[Anonymous No.12968723]

>>12963065
ubi doesn't work though

[Anonymous No.12968730]

>>12968572
google the velocity of money and the effect it has on inflation

[Anonymous No.12968740]

>>12961308
>Hey America, Andrew Yang here. I am going to give you $1,000 a month.
The response:
>Pic related.

[Anonymous No.12968757]

>>12968692
First off the debt is growing and has nothing to do with him. He's even in favor of starting to shrink it. I know all about the rabbit holes. Your taxing the biggest tech companies like Amazon and FB who pay almost nothing in taxes. You tax them to do business here so if they want to sell in this market, which they do, then it' a 10% tax. Germany is like 50 something % and its super developed. People might still spend their money on bad shit but it stops being polarized because everyone gets it and takes the burden off those trying to actually do something. Stop being a fucking doomer and start thinking practical.

[Anonymous No.12968768]

>>12962263
>I understand something that even the top minds of this planet struggles with
Holy cringe

[Anonymous No.12968770]

>>12961618
We will all be long dead before this is reality

[Anonymous No.12968843]

>muh automation
>muh labor replacement,
guess what the only jobs that will be replaced are BS office cuck jobs, no one will replace a dotor, a good lawyer, or even a skilled plumber or some other electrician. It's only stupid non-skilled cucks that will go on unemployment and that's a good thing. Fuck all the office cucks and amazon cage slaves

[Anonymous No.12968850]

>>12968740
>>12961308

Just give the inflation to the people. Seems like the economy keeps moving when giving tons of money to other countries, governments, corporations

[Anonymous No.12968896]

>>12968730
Velocity of money has a deflationary effect on money not inflationary.

[Anonymous No.12968929]

>>12968843
>a good lawyer

isn't part of the dream of smart contracts to essentially automate many of the things lawyers do? there's a huge incentive to get rid of them too. lel.

>>12968896
cant tell if you're pretending to be retarded

[Anonymous No.12968934]

ubi just isn't going to work in non-white/asian societies.

japan could probably get it going, and any country as clean as them could probably try too. but with the amount of disgusting filth seeping into the first world, it's just never going to happen.

[Anonymous No.12969890]

>>12961324
Oh really? Got any evidence to back this up?

[Anonymous No.12970045]

>>12964203
Make automated transport illegal. All vehicles should have a human driver. Problem solved. Next?

[Anonymous No.12970054]

>>12969890
It's ostensibly never been tried. The random Finn that came into the last thread touting it as a success was just plain wrong and exposed as much

For starters, giving random and geographically isolated people $620 equivalent a month temporarily amongst an otherwise "tamper-free" market as they did in Finland is not even close to replicating UBI

Second, giving random geographically isolated people $620 a month in a nordic country is the equivalent of giving them a light tax credit elsewhere and we all know why (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_revenue_to_GDP_ratio))

Third, the anon or the article he may have been citing admitted that the recipients were not more likely to get a job than the homeless or unemployed who weren't receiving it which was one of the benefits initially touted of this system.

[Anonymous No.12970091]

>>12963645
>inevitable mass technological unemployment
Do you mean modern economics, i.e. every post-industrial economy where labor has almost entirely been obsoleted by factory machines and computers, or do you just mean 'ecomonics', i.e. every post-agrarian economy where after people no longer have to scrounge for 24 hours a day to produce the basic necessities they need to live and to avoid predators?

The basic gestalt is that as technological efficiency increases, the effort and time put into the human workday goes down, and free time increases.

[Anonymous No.12970102]

sell your quant, lto, chx and ubi for btmx, ftm and vite.. they are the next coins to pump

[Anonymous No.12970120]

>>12961388
Boomer leave

[Anonymous No.12970139]

>>12963652
That's just managers desperately trying to save their own asses, in the face of the obsolescence of their own business model. You are going to end up seeing a different class of businesses rise up in the new technological revolution, just like how guilds died in the industrial revolution.

[Anonymous No.12970359]

>>12968843
>not knowing surgeons are already being replaced by robots
>not knowing doctors mostly already rely on machinery to properly diagnose patients and doctors are already not needed for that portion
Explain to me what we need doctors for? They’re not needed to diagnose and they’re not needed to treat. What do they do exactly? And lawyers? Hahahahhahahahahahahhahahahaha... my fucking sides!!!!

You know who won’t get replaced eventually? Nobody. The first jobs to go will be blue collar. The next will be white collar & professional. If you honestly don’t believe this will happen eventually you are truly fucking dumb. Historically we have seen technology replace an insane amount of jobs. Even in modern times just go to your grocery store or movie theater. Call your favorite company (telephone routers/operators was a job not that long ago). Computers and robots now build houses, they operate on people, they make stock trades, they design contracts. What the fuck do you think is happening here? We will just stop producing tech?

[Anonymous No.12970383]

>>12970045
>make all transportation less safe and continue to allow people including children to die needlessly at the hands of people drunk or on their cell phones or simply not paying attention
Holy fuck where do you severely low mental capacity people get bred? You realize if we switched to a fully automated transportation grid accident probability would go down to essentially zero percent, right? You realize that would be an economically and socially beneficial thing, right? No, you don’t, which is why you say such stupid fucking things here.

[Anonymous No.12970524]

>>12970054
...Fair enough. Seems like actual good criticism.

[Anonymous No.12970566]

>>12970359
>>12970383
I mostly agree with this anon BUT I think that the safest jobs will be human jobs who control these machines & check if any bug or security flaw might happen... You can't automate everything, and you can't easily automate automation checking, and automated automation checking, and automated automated automation checking...!

[Anonymous No.12970612]

>>12970566
Possibly, we can automate everything and will eventually have robots of which their sole jobs will be to monitor and repair other robots. It’s very difficult for anything to go wrong to the point where human intervention would be needed once we’ve achieved this technology, which we aren’t far from.

[Anonymous No.12970623]

>>12961308

If the government has enough money to send billions to Israel, Venezuela, Africa, Exxonmobil, GM, etc without causing inflation then it should have enough money to help the American people.

[Anonymous No.12970646]

>>12961447
>fraction of the budget
I guess 52% is a fraction. You're not wrong, you're just going to crash the system.

[Anonymous No.12970711]

>>12970612
I think that's really where I'll have to disagree : how could we, as flawed creatures, create somthing without any flaw, any bug, any security breach?
That repair robot you mention : what if "he is error" one day? Will you create another robot that will control this robot? Same issue with that repair-repairobot, where would it end?

My point is : I think that a human will always be required behind the screens. Your point of view works if we can admit that a program can flawlessly do its job no matter what, and I don't believe it's possible. (mainly because it comes from humans,but let's not get too philosophical)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMKeoiKMKRk&list=PLF185B21AE93233BF&index=19

[Anonymous No.12971086]

>>12970359
you are retarded and fell for a meme
just like 15 years ago everyone spread some memes about flying cars in 10-20 years.
Blue collar workers automated? you are fucking retarded like I said you have no idea how any of those jobs look like, good luck having a robot that comes to your house and puts up drywalls or fixing other things.
Good luck having a robot arguing for you in court when you mess up, good luck having root canal treatment done by a robot. You are fucking retarded probably a bernie supporter incel cuck who finished women studies or some other BS with 0 idea of how the real world operates. Your beloved robots can even spit out soda sometimes when you throw in a coin, and you are telling me how advanced is gonna be lmao
not in our lifetimes, not in our children lifetimes either,

Get your ass to work you lazy retard, you think some commie will get into office and magically print money so that we can all be rich? JfC