/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>12591504
What's a professional degree? Engineering?

>>12591510
Medical Doctor, lawyer, mba

That's to the bottom half of that "mean" who got a McDiploma and still work a $30-50k job, of which there are many. The average is skewed by lawyers/doctors/engineers and other practical degrees which are usually exempt from the phrase.

>>12591504
All of those lines are wagecucked, so they're all objectively failures

>>12591554
You're LITERALLY just making stuff up

>>12591504
DO INSTEAD?? YOU GOTTA MAKE THEM FOAM COALS! DON'T FEEL LIKE IT? TOUGH. MAKE YOUR FOAM COALS.

TEN MILLION DOLLARS!

Bachelor's degree here, landing right in between "Doctoral degree" and "Professional degree". Sibling has a Doctoral degree, makes half of what I do and has a shitload of loans. College really is a meme, it's how you apply yourself that matters most.

They all started and sold highly successful companies of course.


Nah jk they all fag neets who jack off into socks all day.

>>12591504
>chart shows earnings by age up to 61 years, aka people who graduated college 40 years ago

Well no shit OP everybody knows that 40 years ago if you went to college you got a 100k job without even trying. Show me data about today's college graduates now that the college meme is oversaturated and how the future is going to look

im 28, barely graduated high school and make 50k yearly wagecucking. how am i doing bros

>>12592121
The difference in earnings is actually getting larger lol

>>12592150
That can be explained by the lack of blue collar jobs so those who would have had income are now unemployed. Not that college jobs pay more. I wonder how wages adjusted for inflation throughout the years show if college is becoming more worth it

>>12592194
Jesus fucking Christ, there is NOTHING there to suggest that they aren't paying more. Present evidence or fuck off, the absolute state of this board.

>>12591504
Sit with dick in hand convincing people with potential not to go because they couldn't kek.

College is great if you manage costs. You get four years to understand yourself better, learn a profession and fool around with hot ladies. However, pick something that complements your strengths and have the end plan (graduation and a decent job at first, business 2nd) in mind

>>12592238
Calm down I'm just playing Satan's lawyer

>>12591592

Ok, now control for tradesmen and other skilled no-degree work. This bunches in the hordes of welfare and McDonald's faggots who never intended on doing anything whatsoever.

I was in CS and am a software engineer btw, I just know way too many people who got McDegrees and are now underemployed with $150k in debt to think it's a foolproof meal ticket for everyone.

>>12591504
What is a professional degree? I thought a PhD is the highest but that's a doctoral

>>12592262
No you're first post was an assumption with no evidence, which was then shown to disagree with available evidence and you just double down and make more shit up. What is the point?

>>12592275
Law/Medicine

>>12592266

Here

https://work.chron.com/typical-wage-tradesman-9225.html

If you're not planning on going into a lucrative major, don't even bother with the fucking debt and bullshit. Go into a trade or start a business:

https://work.chron.com/typical-wage-tradesman-9225.html

Or get an associate's degree and apply yourself in the job hunt. Once you crack into that first job every one after that is easy. Don't make the mistake of 4-5 years with $150-200k in debt for some stupid ass degree in psychology.

>>12592266
You're doing the same thing as well, making stuff up, getting stuff wrong and then moving on/just making stuff up without any data. What's the point?

You can look up all the trade jobs, the best ones pay ok (similar to teacher) but way below the more desirable white collar jobs

>>12592308
This is the same as average bachelor's.... Considerably below masters and far below the more useful degrees at good unis. What's the point in comparing the very best paying blue collar jobs to the worst white collar, it's very misleadinf

>>12591504
Lol this brainlet actually believes in Jewish propaganda statistics.

Of course they’ll tell you people with degrees make more money, university is a business after all and they make more money the higher their admission.

The reality is huge amounts of post university students are not getting jobs and becoming crazy communist freaks. Only the best of the best of the University students make it, which is only a small percentage of all students and in current era good luck making it as a white man unless you sell your soul to the Jew.

>>12592366

Listen to what I am saying. Say you are a graduating high school student with a decent work ethic. Do you have a clear career plan in place where the degree you want applies, the money is guaranteed good after college, and it pays for the cost of college and then some?

If not, you may consider a trade as it will 1. have significantly less education costs 2. have significantly less risk as trades are eternally in demand until plumbing and electricity no longer exist (maybe never) 3. still make decent money

So yes, right, the best money is in professional degrees, engineering, and some other associated white collar work, but 80% of a college campus isn't doing those things, and 50% are in some stupid degree that isn't going to be worth the money you paid for it, so you need to weigh all your options, not toss around blanket judgements like "always go to college."

It depends on your ability, work ethic, goals, and planning.

Non college graduates are a way more mixed bag than college graduates, as I said, there are the unemployed, the welfare leeches, the deadbeats who settled for low end employment in retail/hospitality and McDonald's, and THEN the people who still got a marketable education in a fairly decent career path, you can't characterize the latter with all of the former as by definition those in college ARE pursuing work. There is almost no such thing as a college graduate falling back on welfare or unemployment and that affects the aggregate data.

Or don't listen to me, go rack up an enormous bill on a Special Education degree and make $30-40k the rest of your life while paying $700 a month in student loans.

I don't give a fuck, I'm a software engineer and make $100k. I've just experienced the process and realized that yes, college is overrated unless you know how to game the system.

College IS a waste of money IF you know exactly what you want to do with your life and that time would be better spent outside the classroom. However, most drop outs don’t have a plan and just wing it in which case you should’ve stayed in school.

>>12592407
You need a good shrink while its not too late

>>12592441
I'm a valedictorian with 50 BTC, at college for the prestige but plan on retiring afterwards. If what you're saying is true why exaggerate?

>150k student loans when the average is 37k
>50 percent doing a degree not worth the money when realistically it's about 10 percent max if you don't want to do manual work (like most people)

The facts are, a mediocre degree from a mediocre uni pays the same as the very best paying trades, but its generally a far desirable job in the non financial aspects. NOT you have to be studying math at Harvard to make more, just not a meme subject at a meme college. Can't stand all the trade larping here when I grew up in a ghetto and see what reality was like.

>>12592441
Not him, but if one becomes a teacher for a very low income small town, they'll probably make more than everyone else in the area. Median pay for a teacher is like 50k, and that goes for places where median household income is like 20k too. Plus there's a "danger pay" that teachers can get if they opt for employment at nigger containment zones or Indian reservations.

also all the days off are perfect for a side hustle as a tutor, which can make a ton of money depending on what your competition is. Rich whites and asians pay out the ass for people to teach their potatoes calculus.

>>12592150
In 1979 homes were like 60K, in 2009 homes were like 600K. How come weekly earnings didn't go 10x? They only went up like 1.2x, WTF?

>>12592591
People are willing to put themselves into debt for decades to pay them off, inflating prices.

Getting a degree absolutely pays off you retarded fags...but only if you pay denbts. It's retards who take out loans for the full cost of their degree then only make minimum payments on them who get fucked, and they deserve it to be honest.

the people getting STEM shit and then working at McDonald's are retarded, it's like people with CS just give up if they can't work for the Google machine. This is an extremely effeminate mindset btw, most of the people I know in STEM who fucked off into fast food are dumb thots with degrees in shit like marine biology who gave up after they couldn't get a job at SeaWorld

there's so much fucking work out there for nearly every major, and if you can't find work in the private sector, either join the military or work for the government. fed literally does not give a shit what you got your degree in for nearly any position.

>>12592553
>The facts are, a mediocre degree from a mediocre uni pays the same as the very best paying trades
Not true. In this one electrical union, cap is 44.35 an hr after 3.5-4yrs so 92k with benefits, pension, 401k, etc.
Most people with some shit tier bachelors won't be making that. Especially in their 20s. My sister for instance graduated in stem at 23 and is currentlt 27 making 22 an hr with a 50 cent raise every yr and caps at about 35ish an hr. She works at a uc school. All her friends besides 1 accountant found a job in their field. Biology major? 19 an hr taking care of kids with disabilities. Psychology major? Working at the same u.c. school (only reason my sister got in) making the same pay. Etc.

>but its generally a far desirable job in the non financial aspects
This I agree with which is why I'm even finishing my bachelors since I hate the trades and just want an easy as fuck job teaching pointless shit while getting paid middle class wages regurgitating basic information. K-12 teacher is what I wish I had done so I wouldn't hate my life. I live in california/La and they start at 40k and average a little over 70k. Pay cut is fine as the work is WAAAAY easier

>>12592632
Damn, the college graduates today are god damn fools.

>>12592695
>there's so much fucking work out there for nearly every major,
This is not true for young grads. 44% of 22-27 yr old college grads are underemployed. Even after that age it's still not great

>>12592553

A mediocre degree from a mediocre uni will get you $40-70k over the course of your career with a $100-200k bill you will have to pay back with interest. Not only that, it will most likely be for work that you could have done WITHOUT said degree, which is the core point.

You could pay a quarter of that for education in a skilled trade and make $40-70k (and much more if you start your own trade business), or even get an associate's and be a little more novel in your job search.

People will major in English, Psychology, Women's Studies, Political Science, etc. and then segue right into a career path that has nothing to do with their education, for a total bill of $150k + interest, for wages they could have gotten going into a skilled trade or hardly doing any schooling at all.

This is what I've seen as a grad, I don't know what kind of fairytale you're living in where degree => money no matter what you went in.

If you factor in student loans + interest payments and cost of living adjustments for having to live in a decent area to find any good white collar work, the $50k college grad earner may in fact be effectively poorer than the $40k tradesman so that skews the numbers as well.

We're on /biz/, making money isn't some kind of static paint by the numbers book. The trap high schoolers get into is having no vision and not analyzing the full picture of data.

>>12592581

You know the kind of teacher I'm talking about. Not a hustler. "Special Ed" degree, no personal agency whatsoever, settles for the nearest podunk job for $35k a year and then spends the rest of her life sitting on her ass and complaining about how teacher's deserve the world and aren't paid enough on Facebook.

>>12592591
because boomers failed to save enough money to retire because MUH SOCIAL SECURITY yet only had one or no kids, so there's an artificial squeeze on the availability of housing so they can cash out safely

this is a real estate industry/boomer specific thing, not a "omg ebil corporations" thing per se. other factors to consider include how much more shit actually goes into having a house built to local code in current year vs. 1979.

>>12592750
>unemployed=no work
no most people are just retarded and fail to leverage themselves correctly. many people are also unwilling to relocate. a lot of these people also have the weird fucking mentality of, "i need at least 50k for a job in my field but until i get exactly that, this 24k coffee shop job is fine." they don't take training, they don't volunteer in their field, they don't do internships, they often continue living with their parents and they create a habit out of mediocrity and failure.

>>12592704
No one gives a shit about ancedotal evidence I've never seen it growing up and gov statistics don't agree. If electricians really could earn over 100k or whatever dream figure dont you think people wouldn't cotton on, start doing these jobs and excess supply would bring it back to a normal level? They don't cause it never happens in reality (as given by gov statistics) its always cherry picking or lying.

>>12592750
This is very misleading. It says "don't need a bachelor's degree to do their work" not "don't need a bachelor's for the job". Loads of jobs seem to use them for intelligence tests but you won't ever use the skills e.g. teaching

>>12592849
UNDEREMPLOYED, not unemployed. Huge difference.

>The trap high schoolers get into is having no vision and not analyzing the full picture of data.

anons pay attention to >>12592758 .

>>12592880
oh sorry
>underemployed=no work
...annnnd that doesn't at all change my point. is this the latest excuse you concocted for yourself or the people close to you, or something?

>>12592758
Look no one in the top 20 percent of my hs class came to the same conclusion as you. This conversation is over when you keep fucking lying/misleading with "100k-200k" student loans when the average is a quarter of that

>>12592871
1. Nope. Pic related. Overall though they do seem to make 60k as a cap. Just saying YOU said "than the highest paid trade" which is blatantly wrong.

2. Missing the point. 44% of UNDEREMPLOYED college grads work in jobs that DIDN'T ASK for a bachelor's in the first place.

>>12592902
Do you even understand what underemployment is? I don't think you do.

>>12592911

I'm not talking about "the top 20 percent of your high school class" you dolt. I'm talking about the entire body of college students, many of which are patently mediocre, purposeless, and wasting their time/money.

Where in fuck are you getting $25k in college costs? Haiti University?

>>12592936
>44% of UNDEREMPLOYED college grads work in jobs that DIDN'T ASK for a bachelor's in the first place.
Let me reword that. The 44% that are underemployed are underemployed because they work in jobs that DIDN'T ask for a bachelors in the first place.

>>12592936
>>12592948
i understand what underemployment is exactly you obese mediocre fuck, which is why I detailed that a lot of it isn't the fault of MUH BIG BAD GORBORAYSHUNS or MUH GOLLEGE SCAM but of idiots like you who fail to pay denbts and negotiate on your own behalf. Address my original points or accept that you're a lazy fuck who's satisfied with his failures since you're doing nothing about them but buying lotto tickets and chainlink

>>12592975
>>12592911

Also you're clearly a recently graduated high schooler now that you point that fact out. And are validating my point that high schoolers are fairly narrow minded and have a hard time analyzing the reality of the job situation due to being young and inexperienced.

>>12592936
Use official government statistics (showing the largest possible sample) instead of cherry picked ones. You can do this with anything and it's cancerous.

2. doesn't say that at all. Don't want to sound rude but I graduated valedictorian effortlessly, it's very easy to see through things like that. There is a difference between "don't need a bachelor's degree to do their work" not "don't need a bachelor's for the job".

>>12592785
I had a teacher like this. He was obviously fucking miserable teaching tards for a pittance. Then he decided to become a football and wrestling coach, now he's head coach of both and is one of the highest paid teachers in the school. Funny how things work in the south

>>12592975
Average us loan is 37k. Look it up.

>>12592975

>>12592911 is referring to the average debt a graduate is in. Most students pay the cost of college with scholarships and part time jobs while attending. People who leave school with six figures of debt are retards who probably would have been buried in debt eventually regardless of whether or not they did it at 18 or at 38. anyway pretty sure this is the source: https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/personalfinance/2017/04/28/average-student-loan-debt-every-state/100893668/

>>12592991
Are you a boomer, stupid ass fuck face?
They are underemployed because they can't find shit. Pic related, retard. The u.s. isn't some fucking utopia with good paying jobs ready for people. There is an over supply of college grads, stupid ass.

> Address my original points or accept that you're a lazy fuck who's satisfied with his failures since you're doing nothing about them but buying lotto tickets and chainlink
You're stupid as FUCK. Illiterate too. I am an electrician and am entering that union soon. I blatantly stated that, retarded dumb bitch. I even said I am finishing my bachelors to change careers. Do you have down syndrome? Retarded as FUCK assumptions.

>>12593039
>>12593036

There are a lot of people whose parents are either rich, or they get a lot of scholarships/assistance. This changes the entire picture. But many don't, I'm not talking about those whose costs are basically going to be nullified.

If you're barely paying anything then go ahead and waste your time in school, at least it won't be a waste of your money.

>>12593022
1. Reeeetard. I'll fucking quote you. >>12592553
>The facts are, a mediocre degree from a mediocre uni pays the same as the very best paying trades
I was simply addressing that as being inaccurate. Lool what a retard.

2.
>"don't need a bachelor's degree to do their work" not "don't need a bachelor's for the job".
valedictorian in what major? If you mean highschool,who gives a shit? I had a 4.13 one time. So what? That's irrelevant as fuck. Also, google underemployment. You are obviously ignorant as fucl about this.

What makes you stupid is how you think there's a job lined up for literally everyone. You FAIL to understand basic economics. If 100% of people get a cs degree, can EVERYONE WORK IN CS?? No!
Someone HAS to be a cashier, laborer, etc.

>>12593076
Why not admit you're larping?

The average debt is 37k. No way of getting around your "100k-200k" figure being completely wrong. You'd be aware it was completely wrong without Google if you actually went and talked to people.

>>12593099
Mediocre=average
Best paying trades already posted in thread >>12592308
Median college pay already posted >>12591592

Bachelor's is same, masters is more.

Look sweetie, I graduated valedictorian and you didn't. If it was easy maybe you should have done it. Those sentences do not mean the same thing at all.

>>12593114
It's still a huge hit, but that's mostly because people go full retard and enter university first instead of basically getting the 1st 2 years free by going to a community college.
A bachelors is not a bad idea and you misunderstand me A LOT. I even said so myself that I was finishing my bachelors to change careers. It can be a very good decision if the 1st 2 years are done at a cc to minimize or eliminate debt entirely. Prestige from school is horseshit and so people just go to the most expensive schools when most employers don't even give a damn as they value internships more than the prestige

>>12593148
>dur hur I graduated valedictorian therefore everything I say is fact
Retard alert. Google underemployment. I swear you're just trying to save face here.

>>12593148
Sorry sweetie. Pic related.

>>12592785
lol yeah you're right, 95% are exactly like that. i don't understand tho because it's such a good job for hustling, super cushy, mega safe, typically has a relatively high income to the area, etc.. beyond me how they complain endlessly when so many people work white collar jobs for drone-mills like KPMG for 80hrs a week for years below the salary of any tenured HS teacher, even in the same state

>>12593048 i'll eat that, electrician is a good job and you're going to school for the right reasons. your pic is retarded though, $79k being "middle class" in CEDAR RAPIDS IA is nonsense, so are the numbers for places like Myrtle Beach and basically everywhere that isn't LA, NYC, DC, and fucking Hawaii.

I'll concede that grads aren't likely to find jobs in places like LA, DC, Santa Rosa etc fresh out of school but it's idiotic to say that's the case for the rest of the country. the fact that these sources constantly line up places in IA to places in CA should tell you something

>>12593227
The sentences don't mean the same thing. Practice your SAT lol

>>12593254
Studying a lot does not equate to success. There's a shit ton of people in your class that did way worse than you but aren't socially inept that will make 10x your salary in the future.

>>12593269
Try again honey. Did my homework but certainly wasn't a tryhard. If you read the thread the guy in talking to is just shit at English

>>12593246
>79k being "middle class" in CEDAR RAPIDS IA is nonsense, so are the numbers for places like Myrtle Beach and basically everywhere that isn't LA, NYC, DC, and fucking Hawaii.
Why? Just google "hardship wages" and "livable wage" stats and you'll see about 62% of jobs fall under those crap paying ranges by various sources. Median wage nationwide is 18 an hr. Most people lose and get paid dog shit.
>idiotic to say that's the case for the rest of the country.
That 44% stat was a nationwide stat so no it's not idiotic at all.
But again, people are fucked without a college degree if they don't luck out with a business or crypto so I still think it's better for them to try then to give up nd have limited job prospects.

>>12593114

You're still paying $100k to 200k. I'm so happy you haven't had a true taste of the world and think college doesn't load tons of people up with debt and then spit them out to go work banal jobs they could have done without the lost 4-5 years and tens of thousands of dollars. Now you can just argue about numbers and average stats with aggregate data that hardly applies to any individual since career plans and background are incredibly different case by case.

>>12593302
My 2 english teachers in college didn't mind at all so your comment is irrelevant. What's your major anyways? Something tells me you picked something easy yet are acting like you're some hotshot kek. You got lucky with crypto and became valedictorian in your highschool woopdie doo. Highschools are worthless general ed classes. Not an accomplishment.
I was in 7 clubs, mvp of track, and had a 3.6 (4.13 one time). Guess what? NONE OF THAT means jack shit in college OR the real world. Wake up.
Now you think you're a genius when it's not even warranted.

>>12593254
>>12593302

>I-I'm a valedictorian
>Practice your SAT! LOL

This screams 18 year old goober parroting inexperienced nonsense. I don't know why I'm wasting my time.

>>12593351
>>12593358
I graduated valedictorian, you didn't. I have nothing else to say. Now fuck off SEETHING brainlets

And this is the same guy I'm on 4g ban evading

>>12593377
>I graduated valedictorian therefore I'm always right lelelel
You're a clown

>>12593304
what i'm saying is that crap wages in Hawaii and Santa Rosa are great wages in Cedar Rapids. 18/hr median is excellent as well in every part of the country except the coastie serfdoms.

How about just don't major in any of the shit on the bottom of this list or anywhere near it (associated meme degrees)

https://www.forbes.com/sites/karstenstrauss/2017/06/28/college-degrees-with-the-highest-and-lowest-starting-salaries-in-2017/#40885e492343

>>12593409
Eh you have a point with Cedar Rapids. I don't agree with the median wage being good though.
78% of full time workers nationwide live paycheck to paycheck. 50% of renters spend over 30% of their income on rent. Of those, half spend over 50% of their income on rent. Something is very wrong with this picture.

>>12593430
is it factored in that women are the ones most likely to take any of those low-end earnings majors (except history, the refuge of trust fund burnout sons) and are also the most likely to severely under-negotiate their own salaries?

>>12593454
There is something wrong, it's incomplete. As far as renters go, major cities have the most renters. Rent is high in cities because property taxes and home/investment property values tend to be quite high because of the population, and also because if half a city is renting the apartment/condo complexes are way more valuable which creates a cost the renter bears. There's a lot of shit wrong with real estate and many cities are very corrupt, but there's nothing stopping many renters from going to mid-sized cities with a far better cost of living and more jobs.

$18/hr is 37k/ year. If one household has two earners making 37k, they're at 74k which is well above the Cedar Rapids median hh income of ~55k.

$37k/yr can also afford a worker a pretty good life in a larger city like St. Louis, MO regardless of whether or not they have a spouse or want to live with room mates.

i'm not surprised 78% are living paycheck to paycheck, most people don't know what they're doing with their money if we're honest with ourselves. maybe some are in dire straits but most people just don't consider the future.

>>12591504

Day trade cryptos and I make more than you faggot.

>>12593377

>I graduated valedictorian

Good goyim have meme award that says you where the most successfully indoctrinated.

>>12591504
>implying there's a difference between earning 60k and 120k a year when houses cost 2000k minimum and rising