/biz/ - Business & Finance

[Anonymous No.12588637]

>individualism bad, communism good

[Anonymous No.12588645]

>>12588637
>working at McDonalds for a wage good
>collectively owning that same McDonalds and receiving a share of it's profits bad.

[Anonymous No.12588649]

>>12588645
I like how you instantly assume everyone is as pathetic as you and has to work at McD's lmao

[Anonymous No.12588665]

>>12588649
Pic related. Grey = mcdonald tier jobs

[Anonymous No.12588670]

>i use NPC meme in 2019
>i smart cookie!
>#woke

[Anonymous No.12588678]

>>12588645
>>12588665
Well if you're a brainlet trash that works at mcdonald and who can't do anything better than that deserves it since he's genetic trash.

[Anonymous No.12588683]

>>12588645
>individualism = McDonald’s

>>12588670
To this day, it still only triggers the people it applies to. Stay mad and pathetic, you unthinking animal.

[Anonymous No.12588711]

>>12588678
Electrician actually. Just saying it's common, fag. Will probably switch to teaching k-12 later on though.

[Anonymous No.12588718]

>>12588637
Ah, yes, I see you too realized that morals are just spooks.

[Anonymous No.12588722]

>>12588665
>McDonald’s jobs gray, NPC meme gray
Sounds about right. I’ve found that the only people who critique “individualism” are the same people who have no experience being an individual and have only ever worked shitty minimum wage jobs.

>>12588649
When you cut through all the bullshit, communism literally boils down to dragging everyone down to the same level so no one has to feel pathetic for working shit-tier jobs. Seriously.

[Anonymous No.12588724]

>>12588718
False dichotomy. You can be an individual with morals.

[Anonymous No.12588918]

>>12588724
Look around you anon. Individualism in the case of biz is openly admitting that you're a drain on society without an ounce of shame. They say they're not afraid of death and just want to watch the world burn, but that's a lie. They've never felt pain or hardship in their entire life and would do anything to prevent their easy lifestyle from collapsing as long as it didn't require any effort on their part, because society enables them. Individualism is dependant on communal well being.

Before you tell me I'm a fucking commie, the opposite as just as bad, if not worse. I'd rather be a neet than an ant. But I'd really much rather society finally adopt a middle ground of individual responsibility.

[Anonymous No.12590164]

>>12588637
In theory, yes.
Unless you like to live on your own in the middle of the woods.

[Anonymous No.12590195]

>>12588918

Individualism is necessary as the collective depends on every individual to work to their potential. Collective initiatives can only succeed in the context of collective individual excellence. Meanwhile, there is no such thing as "collective excellence" pushing individuals towards success. Therefore an emphasis on individualism first is necessary for a successful society, and collective, after the fact.

Communist and socialist systems feature a ton of diffusion of responsibility, demotivation, lack of productivity and innovation because the individual has no agency or impetus to succeed on their own basis.

[Anonymous No.12590261]

>>12588718

[Anonymous No.12590407]

>>12588637
Exactly what about you do you think makes you an "individual?" This website consists of a mass of anonymous people reposting and parroting the same 3-5 ideas, thoughts, and memes everyday. Twenty posters on here just like you could die right now, and literally no one would notice. /biz/ is essentially a hivemind, just like every other board. Doesn't get more communist than that

[Anonymous No.12590438]

>>12590407

This site doesn't trend towards an aggregate consensus like reddit. There is a collective aspect of it but on the contrary it is controversy (individual thought) that is made more apparent by post bumping, rather than consensus through upvote/downvote. It retains your individuality.

[Anonymous No.12590447]

>>12588637
make your own memes discord tranny

[Anonymous No.12590492]

>>12588637
if you're really struggling to understand the limits of egoism on providing a structure for humanity to live under, please, I present to you the freeway systems of Los Angeles.
In some ways it is the peak of Individualism and Rationality. We all want to get out of work and go home in the comfort of our own conditioned travel pod, listening to our own favorite radio stations.
However the emergent system that this makes is absolute shit. For each individual, for the immediate community, and the world at large.

The real NPC move is to be so consumed by an ideology that you can't critique your own paradigms and and can't see any other possible alternatives.
The only free man is the one that can change his mind.

[Anonymous No.12590498]

>>12590164
Your post is so dumb. Individualism vs. communalism isn’t like flipping a light switch, off and on. It’s more like a knob with degrees that you turn.

The more capable you are as a person, the more your “knob” is turned to the “individualism” side. Consequently, the most successful people in society are individualists. They don’t follow the herd, they don’t blame other people for their failures, and don’t beg for handouts. I’m generalizing a lot and there are exceptions to every rule, but in general individualists are successful and commies either work at mcdonalds or live in their mom’s basement.

[Anonymous No.12590515]

>>12590498
baseless assumptions from a brainlet, you literally have provided nothing of substance, except some worthless verbal diarrhea fitting your own narrative.

[Anonymous No.12590530]

>>12590515
You have literally provided nothing of substance with this post. You haven’t addressed a single thing I said. Wow, I can do that to, watch.

Your entire post is worthless diarrhea fitting your own narrative.

[Anonymous No.12590541]

>>12590498
you're pants-on-head retarded.
you only hear about the "most successful" people being "strong individualists" because the other "strong individualists" either wind up dead for driving upstream in traffic, stuck in family court because they thought wearing a condom was just a superstition, or sitting in court like Chapo.
Literal cognitive dissonance.

[Anonymous No.12590550]

>>12590515
Never met a communist who wasn’t some worthless druggie.
Never met a successful person who just bitched about capitalism all the time (except for the people who make the “anti-capitalist” merchandise to sell to the retards who don’t see the irony in their purchase)

[Anonymous No.12590565]

>>12590492

LA has had a leftist government for decades, if you want "peak individualism" look to Houston but then again cities themselves trend more collectivist by definition.

A collective can't exist without individuals but an individual can exist without a collective, however that individual will suffer. So while a collective is good, and an added benefit, emphasis must be placed on individual excellence for collective excellence by definition.

The modern western paradigm is one that trends towards decay and dysgenics. The incapable, poor, stupid, and non contributors are rewarded with an overly generous welfare/benefits system and are free to continue this behavior (as well as attract more of it from those on the fringe), while the successful and capable are punished with high taxation and burdensome living requirements that make things like parenthood extremely unpalpable. It's not good for individuals, it's not good for the collective as eventually the share of contributors vs dependents will become ridiculously skewed and systems will go bankrupt or awry.

[Anonymous No.12590573]

>>12590438
>This site doesn't trend towards an aggregate consensus like reddit.
That's blatantly false. If I start a thread right now saying something like "Jews actually aren't that bad" or post a picture of an interracial couple, I can predict every single response like clockwork. Any time, any day of the week, it will be the exact same thing. On pretty much any other website, including Facebook and Reddit, that would be met with a variety of different responses, positive, indifferent, and negative. Don't get me wrong, I'm a part of it too. I've been on here for ten years. But don't delude yourself into thinking you're some kind of "individual," rebel, or free thinker because you post on 4chan. You've just finally found yourself a social club you can conform to, most likely because it's "edgy" or makes you feel controversial.

[Anonymous No.12590599]

>>12590550
>never met Ukrainian who produced enough wheat to feed his family
>never met a member of Politburo who thought the party should reform

literally what you sound like

>>12590565
>Saying example of LA freeways has anything to do with their city government.
>They literally invented the freeway system in America
>Says Houston has figured it out after they installed the freeway system
>Cities are intrinsically collectivist

pic related

[Anonymous No.12590611]

>>12590573

You're completely wrong. Facebook and Reddit, fucking seriously? By design they bury dissent and promote consensus agreement. You're lying. You just don't like the prevailing sentiment on this forum. I would agree there is a prevailing sentiment and culture, that's natural to any human community, but to act like it's more hivemindy than fucking reddit is a good way to just throw out your entire argument because that's false on its face. You can't predict shit because most threads have a pretty crazy spectrum of responses even if you can pick out a majority. You don't want to admit leftism, by definition, kills individuality in its eagerness to promote the collective but that is its political function so your denial doesn't make any sense to me. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

[Anonymous No.12590623]

>>12590541
You have a point, but you ignore the other side of your own argument. You only hear about the most successful being strong individualists because they were the ones who succeeded, but how often do you hear about the people who... well, who think and talk like you, become successful?

You could turn your entire argument around and say that you only hear of successful collectivists because they didn’t end up dead for jumping in front of the bus/train while waiting for it, or because they didn’t end up stuck in court trying to collect child support, or else get stuck in the system trying to get more welfare.

That, or they’re hypocrites who extol the virtues of communism while reaping the benefits of individualism >>12590550

[Anonymous No.12590632]

>>12590599

I don't think you get what I mean. Houston is regarded as kind of out of control because their lax regulations led to weird ass zoning where there's an endless patchwork of parking, skyscrapers, housing, and buildings rather than any kind of collective order.

Why wouldn't LA's shitty transit system have "anything to do with their city governmnt". That is the city government's job, to manage transit and mitigate any bullshit like their freeways. It's poor city planning, not some kind of hallmark of individual failure, and 99% of American cities have been run by leftists for decades now so it's weird to associate it with individualists.

[Anonymous No.12590640]

>>12590573
You are literally bitching that this site is nothing like the hive mind hugboxes that you’re used to. Your entire post is invalid.

>>12590599
Still never saw a commie who wasn’t a worthless druggie ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Anonymous No.12590650]

honestly how do you defend the fact that average CEO pay went from around 25x to 250x the average worker pay and that the middle class has gotten shafted?

people used to be able to live on 1 salary comfortably, now people are literally working 4 jobs in a household just to get by.

and don't start talking about being unskilled, unskilled labor was paid a fair wage in the past too.

it's honestly baffling that unsuccesful capitalist bootlickers can't see this

raise wages, tax the wealthy

[Anonymous No.12590654]

>>12590541
>being an individulaist means being a moron
>being this much of a braindead retard
>not realising that individualism means having agency and taking responsibility for shortcomings instead of blaming god or other people

[Anonymous No.12590662]

>>12590599
I mean I literally haven’t met a commie who wasn’t total fucking scum. Why do you guys always tend to be total dregs and gutter rats? This ideology attracts nothing but deadbeats I swear

[Anonymous No.12590671]

>>12590650
>honestly how do you defend the fact that average CEO pay went from around 25x to 250x the average worker pay and that the middle class has gotten shafted?
By being a cock sucker sperm eater that doesn't question the system. Sheeple basically. Brainlets. Some people just like getting cucked by life.

[Anonymous No.12590672]

>>12590654
I like how he completely ignores all the retards on his side. They’re more likely to die of their own stupidity than anyone else.

[Anonymous No.12590678]

>>12590662
your shit anecdotal evidence means nothing.

have you ever followed even any secundary education? you sound <80IQ.

[Anonymous No.12590683]

>>12588637
go back to pol stupid niggerfaggot

[Anonymous No.12590698]

>>12590671
>begging for free scraps, doled out by government
>thinks he’s not “sheeple”

[Anonymous No.12590708]

>>12590623

I thought the failure of the unsuccessful/incapable isn't necessarily seen as a bad thing if you're about human evolution from an individual standpoint

Not that the odd case of catastrophe and the genuinely unlucky don't exist, but by and large most of the unsuccessful are there because they suck, naturally, so across the board it is a net benefit for humanity if their line doesn't continue.

That aspect of society literally gets ignored today. Not that we need to go to that extreme but its blanketly ignored. We are going to pay for that down the line. We aren't where we are today because humans or human ancestors were exceptionally compassionate in the past, on the contrary a lot of stupid, lazy, ineffective individuals had to die and not reproduce.

We will pay for it. Everyone will suffer, capable and incapable alike once we've picked up enough genetic debt and we're an ineffective society.

[Anonymous No.12590725]

>>12590678
Your shit adhom means nothing.

>have you ever followed eve any secundary
>even any
>secundary
You clearly haven’t, faggot

[Anonymous No.12590734]

>>12590650

Neocons and neoliberals opened up American markets in the 80's and 90's to Mexican, Chinese, etc. competition and completely gutted manufacturing. That alone is responsible for a ton of job loss and wage stagnation among the lower middle and middle classes. Meanwhile the profits of these movements were realized by top of the line executives.

And this was mostly done by Democrats, whose economic model has been "open up markets, and expand welfare" for a while now. Since FDR. You bought the "protectionism bad" kool aid and now you will pay for it. But at least there's always food stamps and Section 8!

[Anonymous No.12590737]

>>12590698
This whole thread you've been spouting random incoherent bullshit with no bases to your claims. Kys

[Anonymous No.12590762]

>>12590737
You are literally guilty of everything in your entire post. My “claims” have more “bases” than yours in this thread. I say again:
>begging for free scraps, doled out by government
>thinks he’s not “sheeple”

Unironically, kill yourself you worthless fucking leech. You will die poor, and you will never amount to anything.

[Anonymous No.12590767]

>>12590650
What happens when you double the supply of labour? You halve the wages
Allowing women into the workforce in the 60s/70s did that

[Anonymous No.12590795]

>>12590683
fuck you nigger. all fucking niggers must fucking hang and you should too

[Anonymous No.12590813]

>>12590795
I wasn't talking to you fucking retarded nigger, kill yourself.

[Anonymous No.12590822]

>>12588637
Literally all mainstream media keep saying the contrary. Going with the corporate media doesn't make you edgy or subversive, you know.

[Anonymous No.12590831]

>>12590822
>being responsible and not blaming everyone else for your failures is “edgy or subversive”

[Anonymous No.12590840]

>>12590762
Down syndrome. You say a bunch of words with nothing but fluff. Literally no facts of any kind to back up your bullshit. What a retard. You'll fail in life.

[Anonymous No.12590844]

>>12590623
Goddamn you're dense.
"You never hear about collectivists who've done well"
That's because you talk about their collection. How many successful collections are there? Go ahead, I'll wait.
Every collection is going to have some stray birds that might extoll their own virtues, but they wouldn't have gotten to where they were without the collection.

>>12590632
If you want to make the argument that the freeway is intrinsically some democrat left city government argument, you're also a drooling incompetent.
First, LA has not always been democratic.
Second, if the freeway system was intrinsically collectivist technology, why would other cities who taut themselves as being "the land of the free" adopt it? In either case, you're attacking a detail of the story instead of the facts. Highways have always been advertised as a boon to individual freedom, the american dream, and effective transportation. But everywhere they've been adopted, from Nashiville, to Houston, to Boston, they always create problems.
Individual rationality, in some systems, will create the property of emergent inefficiency. To argue resolutely for individuality without considering the system is absolutely blubberingly stupid.

If you want to see a system that isn't a freeway and requires collective sacrifice, but leads to a system providing more individual freedom across the board, go fucking visit Switzerland or Japan or the Netherlands and just use the train for a little bit.

[Anonymous No.12590846]

>>12590840
You can say that all you want, but it doesn’t change reality.
People like me will always rule over subhumans like you. Nothing will ever change that.
An unthinking animal like you doesn’t even deserve to eat; you only get fed because us humans feel bad for you.

>>12590795
>>12590813
That’s racist.

[Anonymous No.12590852]

>>12590492
There would be tens of highways like that if the market could act freely, your post is uber retarded.

[Anonymous No.12590855]

>>12590846
>People like me will always rule over subhumans like you. Nothing will ever change that
What's your job and how much is in you bank account. What's your age too?
>inb4 the retard LARPs

[Anonymous No.12590861]

>>12590492
The LA freeway system was made by the government dumbass

How do you even fuck that up

[Anonymous No.12590876]

>>12590844

I don't even know what you are trying to say at this point. Why is LA relying on its freeway system and not building better rail/subway/public transport? Why is their infrastructure so shit and overloaded? It's overpopulation and bureaucratic inefficency, not some kind of symptom of individuality gone awry. That's why your post doesn't have any substance. Why not find an actual example of broken individualism, starving children or something else.

LA and Cali together are the most leftist spots in this country and yet you're trying to associate LA's inefficiency with individualism for some reason. Because a picture? Wtf

[Anonymous No.12590875]

>>12590844
Goddamn you’re dense.
What good is your “collection” if you’re still an impoverished loser? How successful are you? Please post your fabricated larp to amuse me. Never mind, don’t do that, because it doesn’t matter and I won’t believe you anyways.

[Anonymous No.12590881]

stale meme

[Anonymous No.12590886]

>>12590831
Pure ideology.
Sucking up and accepting garbage work conditions to feel "virtuous" because you're exploited is top cuckold ideology.

[Anonymous No.12590899]

>>12590492
>badly maintained government roads
>the peak of individualism

wew lad

[Anonymous No.12590906]

>>12590855
Don’t (You) me, subhuman. People like me are keeping you alive. Can you hunt or farm? No? Don’t say yes, because I know you’re lying.

Without people like me to provide low-tier jobs for you, or else provide some form of welfare for you to leech off of, you would literally starve to death. I’m serious. You’re poor and unsuccessful for a reason, you know. If anything, you should be thanking me for keeping you alive. I’m waiting, scum.

[Anonymous No.12590917]

>>12590886

Why do you assume people who let the market work freely also freely accept shitty conditions? You are still free to seek better employment as an individual and force the shitters to up their game or lose your services. You're an insecure fuck who thinks he needs his hand held for everything and can't affect action on his own, and now you're projecting with your little charicatures of what you think individualists are.

[Anonymous No.12590920]

>>12590906
>avoids answering my questions
Stay retarded, faggot.

[Anonymous No.12590922]

>>12590844
I think you might actually have mental problems

[Anonymous No.12590923]

>>12590886
>Personal successes and failures is “pure ideology”
Lmao
>Sucking up and accepting garbage work conditions
Why do commies assume everyone is stuck in the same shitty position as them? We’re not all worthless like you.

[Anonymous No.12590936]

>>12590920
You know, I quite like you. In the way a dog lover likes to pet and mess with a cute dog that hates being pet. You bark and whine, but you can’t do anything. I like that. I think I’ll keep feeding you.

[Anonymous No.12590938]

>>12590767
How does that validate a 5x increase for the people at the top.

It doesn't.

[Anonymous No.12590941]

>>12590917
>market work freely also freely accept shitty conditions?
Because salaries constantly need to go down for profit to only remain stable, let alone grow. This is a necessary condition of market growth & competition, read Ricardo, Schumpeter and Marx about the tendancy of the rate of profit to fall.
>You are still free to seek better employment as an individual and force the shitters to up their game or lose your services
>You are free to join the rat race
Nah. I'm good.
>You're an insecure fuck who thinks he needs his hand held for everything and can't affect action on his own, and now you're projecting with your little charicatures of what you think individualists are.
Blah blah blah, empty statements, virtue signalling and slave morality. Don't worry dear temporary embarrassed millionaire, one day you'll get to wear the boot that crushes you.

[Anonymous No.12590958]

>>12590936
>still avoiding my questions
Stay retarded, faggot. I bet you're just a highschooler who has no life experiences kek.
I can't tell if you're just trolling or are really this fucking stupid.

[Anonymous No.12590960]

>>12590852
Please cite some examples of the free market fixing public transportation.
Meanwhile I'll be sitting over here with all my examples of freeways and individual vehicle ownership destroying wellbeing, society, and the environment.

>>12590861
>hur dur the government never sponsors "individualist" projects

please name me an example of non-government, non-collectivist transportation working.
If you don't understand that freeways operate under an assumption of individualism, you're beyond help.

>>12590875
>I can't come up with anything else to say, I'm just going to say he's poor
Whoa, you literally can't even come up with an insult without relying on your broken ideology

>>12590876
You're going to continue to make this conflation that california's leftist neoliberalism is some collectivist ideology aren't you?
I'll say it again, the freeways won because of a fairytale about individualism.
The current LA Metro is being stopped at every measure because their rich (((democratic))) citizens keep fighting with arguments about private property and individuality.

>>12590899
They wouldn't be so poorly maintained if it wasn't for individualism insisting to waste their money on fake tans and new tits.
Again, the current subway is being underfunded because of individualism. Collectivism would actually provide a good product.

[Anonymous No.12590961]

>>12590941
>temporary (sic) embarrassed millionaire
I always have to laugh when I see the losers say this, because what this statement boils down to is, “If you’re not successful now, you never will be. You should just give up like I did and beg for more welfare.”

[Anonymous No.12590964]

>>12588665
> what is social mobility
Now show me, how many ppl will be stuck on hardship tier job after 3 years of their working life and show me what is the proportion of ppl with no employment history in the hardship tier

[Anonymous No.12590966]

>>12590958
Good boy. Bark. Bark, doggy. Hahaha.

[Anonymous No.12590969]

>>12590650
Literally ideology. People have virtual reality goggles on all the time and if you call them out on it, they'll cry about how you're just not being realistic or whatever. Don't waste your time with them, you can educate them on an individual basis but collectively, they're little more than a blind herd.

[Anonymous No.12590971]

>>12590941

Bullshit. Increased productivity can yield higher profit. Fuck Marx and fuck your shitty female race to the bottom ideology.

[Anonymous No.12590975]

>>12590961
>You should just give up like I did and beg for more welfare.”
Actual projecting. I'm in education and writing my state dissertation and already on the rails to a successful career.
Also english isn't my native language but temporary is a cor

[Anonymous No.12590981]

>>12590969

t. man who pushes political/economic system that literally enforces a blind herd as part of the model

[Anonymous No.12590983]

>>12590966
>again avoiding my questions
Alright, must be retarded. You can have the last word. I don't want your stupidity to lower my brain cells. Bye, dumbass.