/biz/ - Business & Finance

[Anonymous No.12480796]

What went wrong?

[Anonymous No.12480820]

>>12480796
BTC is not private.

[Anonymous No.12480831]

>>12480796
no privacy. jews took over the network and refused to change a 0 to a 1 in the source code to allow it to scale.

[Anonymous No.12480842]

>>12480796
Not scalable. Transaction fees prices end 2017 was 40$.

7tx/sec for a world online currency is a joke.

[Anonymous No.12480845]

>>12480796
Industry took over clueless devs.
Now it's just irrelevant.
Move on

[Anonymous No.12480870]

ah the daily fud from nocoiners
like I haven't been seeing this the past 6 years

[Anonymous No.12480906]

>>12480831
This

[Anonymous No.12480979]

[Anonymous No.12480990]

[Anonymous No.12480999]

[Anonymous No.12481012]

nothing, the entire market is waiting on second layers, thats it. why bother creating a new blockchain thats going to be obsolete in a year or two? only reason is to print lots of it and sell it to late adopters.

[Anonymous No.12481019]

>>12480979
>>12480990
>>12480999
and here comes the token npc botposting their collection of (((real))) bitcoin images

[Anonymous No.12481216]

>>12480796
>Bound by lowest performing node
>Public ledger
>Lack of regulation allows for heavy market manipulation
>List goes on and on

[Anonymous No.12481406]

>>12480999
Is there a Vishnu inside SV's blockchain?

[Anonymous No.12481469]

>>12481012
>>12481019

Here come the core faggots trying to save their illusion.

Bitcoin never needed 3rd parties and 2nd layers.

Sorry faggot, go suck core cock.

Honey badger doesn't care about your shit btc segwit piss lightning bullshit.

[Anonymous No.12481526]

>>12480796
nothing.
everything is going according to plan

[Anonymous No.12481541]

>>12480796
lightning network and bitcoin cash fork.

it's pretty obvious, no one will use bitcoin for transactions, it's a stupid concept

[Anonymous No.12481651]

>>12480796

Institutional investors

[Anonymous No.12481682]

Transactions per second is laughable, the scaling solution, too centralized with only a handful of mining pools running the show, old tech (see proof of stake), normies got burned hard so they won’t be coming back, and finally there is no way to retrieve your funds went it is lost.

That’s if you are talking about bitcoin being the new monetary system’s coin of choice. However, it works pretty well for being digital gold.

[Anonymous No.12481979]

>>12480796

nothing, bitcoin is king and will remain so. All the claims in this thread about privacy or lack of transactions/speed/block size etc, do not understand anything about bitcoin or the innovations already there and coming in the future.

Bitcoin is as much of a monetary phenomenon as it is a technical one. The consensus mechanism is above and beyond any other project by many orders of magnitude and this is what will keep it's king status.

[Anonymous No.12482435]

>>12480796
Nothing wrong, keep accumulating you fagtard

[Anonymous [O1G] No.12482513]

>>12480820
>>12480831
that's a feature actually
>>12480842
this is a problem
>>12480979
doesn't matter it's an open source project we can reclaim it in 5 seconds if hijacked
>>12480999
moronic gibberish segwit does not change bitcoins nature or operation it's not a different coin. segwit does fuck with the incentive system of btc but it's also an optional add-on protocol extension.

[Anonymous No.12482540]

>>12481979
The monetary phenomenon is about decentralized crypto currencies, IE many of them. Not just boomer gold that sadly, very sadly, publicly failed it's load test.
Remember what happened when myspace failed it's load test?

[SIEG No.12482559]

>>12481979
based and zyklonpilled

[Anonymous No.12482600]

Nocoiner here, is this easy to buy without ID; say on localbitcoins?

[Anonymous No.12482619]

>>12482435
>keep accumulating

[Anonymous No.12482629]

>7 tx per second
>global currency
lol

Bitcoin Cash is the only currency trying to be a peer to peer electronic cash

[Anonymous No.12482672]

>>12480999
Based and Checked
>>12482513
Bluepilled

[Anonymous No.12482706]

Nothing, bitcoin did exactly what it was supposed to do and made a bunch of people rich.

[Anonymous No.12482780]

>>12482540

if they are sufficiently decentralized which the vast majority are not (from a consensus / code change perspective especially), but there is also reason to believe most of the SoV aspect will gravitate more so to one, or a very select few

[Anonymous No.12483845]

>>12480796

[Anonymous No.12483865]

>>12480796
.

[Anonymous No.12483876]

>>12480796
..

[Anonymous No.12483884]

>>12480796
...

[Anonymous No.12483913]

[Anonymous No.12483921]

[Anonymous No.12484145]

>>12481469
only unlike you, us "core faggots", or better "early adopters" don't need to care about cheap chinese copies, or those started by convicted fraudsters.

we've already won, and you're wasting weeks of your life trying to convince yourself that you didn't make the wrong choice, even though the results are already in.

>>12482672
alts are bluepills, divide and conquer. you fell for the bait hard, thanks to you being a late adopter, like the rest.

>EooNKWyr
more late adopter cringe right on schedule

[Anonymous No.12484172]

>>12484145
And the result of the above pictured malefactors; illiterate technobabble, shadowy larping psychopaths, useful idiots, and corporate strategy respectively, in the face of the technical facts highlighted afterward being simply too complex for them to grasp, this is what the average fuckwit has ended up believing as far as the market is concerned. Nothing will change until this human sewerage is washed away.
And that is what went wrong.
You're welcome.

[Anonymous No.12484905]

>>12484145
ethereum isn't an alt
and alts are good for btc

[Anonymous No.12485651]

>>12482629
Which one?

[Anonymous No.12485995]

BTC's problem was that SegWit was implemented instead of just increasing max block size.

SegWit:
>0-70% increased tx/s, only if all transactions are SegWit (currently only 30% are SegWit).
>300% increased bandwidth and storage requirements.
>A lot of increased complexity.
>Broken chain of signatures, verification risks.

Larger blocks, let's say 2 MB:
>Always 100% increased tx/s.
>100% increased bandwidth and storage requirements.
>No increased complexity.
>No broken chain of signatures, no verification risks.

Luckily there is still hope for the original bitcoin implementation to succeed with BSV.

[Anonymous No.12485998]

>>12483845
https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2017-December/015455.html

[Anonymous No.12486003]

>>12485995
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VoFb3mcxluY&t=1s

[Anonymous No.12486090]

>>12485998
Of the four he is easily the most outright damaging, despite being nowhere near as classicaly directly out and out evil as mp, because I refuse to believe he is not intelligent enough to know better than to push the ridiculous arguments that he does about the impossibility of scaling a broadcast network of 400 byte transactions past the net throughput of less than a hundred fucking kbps. Nobody who was CTO of juniper networks can possibly be that fucking ignorant about the technological limits involved. It's far more believable that he's outright compromised and lying his weasel ass off to push through this near fatal agenda on the project, and that quote you provide really puts it in perspective how hard he will play that role to the bone;

"Personally, I'm pulling out the champaign that market behaviour is
indeed producing activity levels that can pay for security without
inflation, and also producing fee paying backlogs needed to stabilize
consensus progress as the subsidy declines."

Which is to say at the time fees were skyrocketing to 50 USD averages, this cancerous fuckwit was popping champagne and declaring success, right before the entire ecosystem fell off the exact cliff those of us warning his stupid fucking tribe it would for the past three to four fucking years.

If I could blink one person utterly out of existence for the entire history of Bitcoin, it would without a doubt or second thought be that toxic motherfucker. And I say that knowing just how fucked up the other three are at the same time.

[Anonymous No.12486256]

>>12485995

[Anonymous No.12486468]

>>12481541
It's a store of value now, it was the original first mover. BTC, NTS, and ETH are going to be the three coins making a wave in the next year or two (assuming ETH can redefine itself).

[Anonymous No.12486526]

>>12486090
Stay butthurt nocoiner faggot

[Anonymous No.12486769]

>>12480796
Absolutely nothing.

https://blocks.wizb.it

[Anonymous No.12487153]

>>12484145
aren't early adopters were against segwit? aren't early adopters received forked coins, so they have/had chance to equaly support all chains?
what if we just look at 4chan archive?

[Anonymous No.12487176]

>weren't

[Anonymous No.12487191]

>>12487153
yes and the trick was to promise early adopters to raise the max block size to 2 MB a couple of months after SegWit was implemented. the trickery worked, after SegWit was set in stone a big campaign to prevent bigger blocks was launched and every believer still on BTC was forced over to the last hope, BCH. unfortunately we know how that story ended. we still have the original bitcoin in BSV but support is abysmally low, only hope now is that some huge company is brought on board but who knows if that will ever happen.

[Anonymous No.12487265]

>>12487191
at least microsoft and steam were supporting bitcones when network capacity was appropriate. technically bsv is easier to adopt and implement, but there is also this community support, it makes things complicated.
Theoretically, if Gates or Gabe were bsv supporters, then they only can do it like this: allow payments for btc first, then allow payments for bch, then bsv, then other altcoins. This is the most optimistic scenario i see right now if we include compassion to the disability of the majority.

[Anonymous No.12487290]

but i seriously do not believe in compassion to disability when it comes to money

[Anonymous No.12487360]

>>12481012

2nd layers are encapsulated inside Bitcoin as script. These so-called second layers (Lightning, Wormhole, Plasama etc) are actually separate networks that are not friendly to the host network. If Lightning actually were to succeed it would kill BTC by sucking miner revenue to nothing as the block reward diminished.

[Anonymous No.12487367]

>>12487153
Yes
>>12487191
That story isn't over.
>>12487265
BTC payments is pointless, lightning makes BTC a shit tier form of paypal, why add it when you already have that? It's just another centralised payment network and attached fully malleable ledger controlled by a very small central political council. BSV is not Satoshi's vision at all, there's nothing in the original design that calls for the abrogation of positive changes to the consensus protocol to actually accomplish the goals of the project as the BSV project did and publicly humiliated themselves in the process and horrendously lost the war against BCH.
The fact is, every shred of legitimacy that ever existed in the BTC criticisms of BCH was stripped away and transferred with merit to the BSV branch, all of their "this will result in massive centralised mining nodes in easily controlled central data centers" is not just fearmongering in this instance, it's actually the architecture of the system in question.
Of the three BSV is almost as bad as BTC.

[Anonymous No.12487398]

>>12487191
Yeah the closed door NYA was really fair to the bitcoin community
PajeetSV is the reasonable option lol

[Anonymous No.12487414]

>>12480796
Futures market

[Anonymous No.12487424]

>>12487360
Not true
If 10,000s of actions are preformed off chain the transaction that settled them can pay a higher fee
This means bitcoin stays user friendly/verifiable small blocks, while being able to scale to unlimited transactions

So instead of dumbasses writing some micropayments purchase to every node world wide and paying ~1cent and breaking people's ability to verify the network
LN can process unlimited payments for sub satoshi amounts, and a channel open close rebalance etc. will consolodate 10,000+ payments for like a dollar or whatever
It scales better and is cheaper for everybody and keeps the principals of the network intact

You idiots need to read more

[Anonymous No.12487440]

>>12487367
How can you even compare BTC to paypal? Paypal is fucking terrible. I sell on eBay and I get $.30+3% taken out of every fucking transaction. I've lost hundreds of dollar to paypal.

[Anonymous No.12487481]

>>12487424
> This means bitcoin stays user friendly/verifiable small blocks, while being able to scale to unlimited transactions
If you have a magical mechanism which continues to keep fully up to date records of the utxo set at all times on all nodes and no transactions are ever happening behind an opaque curtain, yeah. Which is to say if you re-duplicate the broadcast unrouted nature of Bitcoin that ensures the above properties.
Without that you've simply succumbed to obvious sabotage because you were too much of a fucking retard to consider the ramifications of permitting 99 percent plus transaction volume to take place on a completely opaque centralised by design second layer upon which you literally fucking *bid* for the most central position in the network topology by having the most well funded channels. Like the trap the three aforementioned scheming fuckheads formulated and the one aforementioned myopic psychopath failed to accurately account for in his blustering idiocy whilst acting as a useful idiot to sabotage the very ledger he was trying to use to destroy the forces they had been subverted by.
But anybody still in the BTC camp at this late stage of the game will never understand that, so i don't expect you to get it, merely to illustrate your absolute fucking mediocre stupidity for all and sundry to witness.

[Anonymous No.12487496]

>>12487440
With the abandonment of the decentralised architecture of bitcoin and the adoption of the centralised architecture of lightning, PayPal and BTC are equally centralised and thus subject to the exact same pressures, which will inevitably result in them attaining the exact same attributes caused by those pressures.

[Anonymous No.12487506]

>>12487481
You don't even know how it works faggot

[Anonymous No.12487515]

>>12487506
That you still don't realize that very simple fact at this stage illustrates that it's you who doesn't know how any of this works, triple nigger.

[Anonymous No.12487516]

Proof Of Work is cancerous dogshit. Bitcoin was supposed to be mined for 150 years. We've barely done 10. The energy and compute requirements are already fucking insane. Dumb fucks clinging to the 1.0, it was an experiment, it still is. We all know Ripple is deeply in bed with every fucking bank and government, Bitcoin will never be a currency any government recognizes, so it will only ever be a speculative 'investment'. Also chink pools. Also no privacy, fuck people knowing how much BTC I have and where I send them to. Monero is miles better than BTC.

[Anonymous No.12487521]

>>12487496
No. Not at all
You read some pajeet spam post and took it as fact
You'll be proven wrong I guarantee it

[Anonymous No.12487538]

>>12487516
Lol so PoW Is shit but you recommend a weaker PoW coin holy shit you're a brainlet

[Anonymous No.12487543]

>>12487521
Declarations don't change reality, you're wrong. It's not even conceptually difficult to understand from a basic information theory perspective. If you're notifying a set of participants in a network with no central nodes about state changes and you want all state changes to be visible to all participants as soon as they fucking happen then you must broadcast all state change notifications you worthless skull fucked invalid shitstain.
I'm done wasting words on your hide, do the world a favour and neck yourself.

[Anonymous No.12487569]

>>12487543
Literal nocoiner with no knowledge on how LN works
I will remember this post and smile at your misery as bitcoin takes over the world

[Anonymous No.12487574]

>>12487538
I didn't say Monero was perfect you retarded fuck.

[Anonymous No.12487580]

>>12487569
This embarrassing stupidity in the face of year old indisputable evidence that it's flatly wrong is all that is left in the BTC camp.
It's just sad, really.

[Anonymous No.12487604]

>>12487580
is this bait

[Anonymous No.12487612]

Guys, the start-of-year bullrun didn't happen this year.

It's happened every year basically but not this year.

I don't think this bodes well. Or could it happen a bit later into the year? Perhaps after regulations become certain?

[Anonymous No.12487615]

>>12487580
Yeah, pretty much. You can quote it out to them direct from the horse's mouth responsible for the sabotage in question who built his business model around it as in >>12480990, you can show it extremely obviously in any basic topology diagram, you can provide mathematical proofs for it, you can even truncate the explanation down to analogies involving shouting in order to deliver critical information to all parties in an area with no forwarding nodes, nothing will ever get through to these people.
They are either too stupid to breathe, or they are paid to pretend to be.

[Anonymous No.12487637]

>>12487604
no, it's a simple fact, everyone who has been watching this and didn't drink the BTC koolaid is well aware lightning is centralized and the centralization is by design, has clear policy objectives for states and central banks, and is in the direct business interests of blockstream, and in fact their entire business model depends on it.

[Anonymous No.12487651]

>>12487637
Thats not what a lightning map looks like I dont even know where the fuck you got that image

[Anonymous No.12487668]

>>12482513
>that's a feature actually

Getting just'd is also a feature.

[Anonymous No.12487678]

>>12487651
It says quite clearly it's a year old.
It's still centralised today. It will always be centralised. It was *designed* to be centralised.

[Anonymous No.12487701]

>>12487678
Why are you postinb a year old map? What's the source? Post the site you got that from.

[Anonymous No.12487709]

>>12487580
That's some nice propoganda, but change the colors up and there's a couple dozen nodes with connectivity as big as those blue ones

[Anonymous No.12487712]

>>12480796
i bought some computer parts with btc but honestly i just use a credit card nowadays because:

1. i can chargeback if i get ripped off
2. i get free miles
3. don't have to worry about securing the btc or a robber forcing me to give him their keys

[Anonymous No.12487715]

>>12487604
Yes. There's a ton of highly connected nodes with grey lines.

[Anonymous No.12487732]

>>12480796
>Valuation completely dependent on a free market
>asset is leveraged against thin air
>calls itself a currency, but is only accepted by very limited services.
But most of all
>hurr durr crypto is the future pump pump pump

[Anonymous No.12487812]

>>12482600
yes, or you can go to a bitcoin atm and buy less than $500 at a time

[Anonymous No.12487875]

>>12487637
I didn't think anyone can be this stupid unironically
But biz never ceases to amaze me

[Anonymous No.12488181]

>>12487398
the """"community""""

[Anonymous No.12488781]

>>12486090

Perpescu is off the map? Does he still have his cult?

[Anonymous No.12488801]

>>12486090
im pretty sure there are still plans to increase block size in the future. anyway with segwit bitcoin is now like 2x more scalable than it was back then. and once schnorr gets implemented so there is signature aggregation, scalability will go up like another 5-10x. That alone should buy another 3-5 years.

and then there is the meme lightning network tho i doubt that will ever take off. but yeh block size definitely needs to be increased in the near future or bitcoin will be fucked

[Anonymous No.12488805]

>>12485995
>increase block size by 100%
>double the orphan rate
>exchanges now take 6 confirmations instead of three or whatever to deposit - same with all other merchants

you cant just increase block size for free.

[Anonymous No.12489226]

>>12488805
You can't abandon the original peer to peer architecture and force through a centralised one for free either.
The cost of that is going to be higher than the extremely low cost of actually scaling optimally and necessarily by increasing the blockchain as the system was designed to and retaining the properties the system was designed with.
And it's not a close thing either. It's the difference between "completely worthless" and "crippled incentive to mine in the system - (incentive to mine in uncrippled system - (avg block payoff * orphan rate))" quantified as a negative effect on the hashing security of the chain which is always going to be a large negative number.

[Anonymous No.12489257]

>>12488805
Also, doubling the block size flatly does not double the orphan rate and suggesting that marks you as extremely ignorant.

[Anonymous [O1G] No.12490102]

>>12489257
yeah that's bullshit. doubling the block size does fuck all today. and it will happen soon enough. but they should make it grow organically on it's own to avoid further hard forks..

[Anonymous [O1G] No.12490116]

>>12487668
no seriously for bitcoin it was supposed to be a feature. satoshi didn't foresee how centralized the entry for btc will be in the future and how easily tracckable transactions and identities become as a consequence. i don't think he even thought about exchanges much i bet he imagined that would be more distributed.

[Anonymous [O1G] No.12490131]

>>12490116
if you think about it today the price discovery of btc is entirely dependent (you could even say done by) on 5-6 centralized service. that is the greatest failure of crypto to date.

[Anonymous No.12490160]

Don't get mad when whales dump on you. Don't get mad when exchanges trade against your position so you can get liquidated. Don't get mad when whales drive up the price to FOMO you in then drive the price down 20% in one candle. Don't get mad when exchanges exit scam with your coins and claim they were hacked.

This is the libertarian free market you asked for.

[Anonymous No.12490979]

>>12490116
>satoshi didn't foresee
He was literally running an experiment. He didn't launch it thinking "yep, this is perfect, I could see this being the exact model for digital money 100 years from now".

What went wrong is once satoshi left a large amount of autistic retards decided he must have left because it was finished and nothing would ever need changing again. It's like how the British left India in 1947 and from then on the railway network was frozen in time. Because subhumans are at their limits just operating things, they're not capable of implementing basic and obvious upgrades on their own.

For one thing it is very obvious if bitcoin was going to be actual money it would need to be fungible. It is also obvious that for it to be global blocks would need a way to expand beyond 1mb. These are obvious things you would put into a production version of digital money once you've proved the basic PoW blockchain concept.