/biz/ - Business & Finance

[Anonymous No.12461503]

>Why do young people hate capitalism

[Anonymous No.12461993]

>>12461503
The problem with capitalism right now is it's offering very little reward and demanding more and more effort. At some point, people start asking what's in it for me? And if no one can actually answer that question then things will start to get bad. At some point, capitalists started making money by doing more with less rather than building enticing and useful products. This is beneficial to them in the short term, but over the long term it could lead to large groups of people turning their back on the entire system. It's important to realise that a social-contract is between multiple parties and those in charge need to maintain trust in order to maintain this social contract and general order.

If you're a capitalist, you should be constantly thinking about how the system you support improves the lives of others. If you don't do that, then don't be surprised when the discarded decide to discard you.

[Anonymous No.12462022]

>>12461993
Both the Austrian School and the Keynesian School are wrong. Both the Austrian School and the Keynesian School assume that the economy WILL always go through boom and bust cycles. Both schools assume that the economy will always "get sick." They only disagree on how the economy should be healed. Banks control the money supply through printing and Fractional Reserve Banking loans and when they Increase the money supply, inflation occurs. The dollar has lost 97% of its value since 1913. When the loans cannot be paid back, the money supply contracts, people lose their money and recessions and depressions occur. It is all about the money supply and debt. Banks make money by making loans thus they are motivated to increase the money supply with the Fractional Reserve Banking System . The Constitution says that only the government can coin money. Our Founding Fathers knew that the money supply needed to be controlled. The Constitution prohibits states from "coining" money but in the 18th century there was a loophole. States chartere hubd banks and allowed them to print money and the Supreme Court gave it a thumbs up. But it is a conflict of interest between banks and the government. Banks want profits and the government wants stable prices. Keep the money supply constant and boom (inflation) and bust (deflation) cycles cannot happen. The Great Depression of 1929 and The Great Recession of 2008 are prime examples as was The Great Depression of 1893, but all American recessions and depressions were caused by a collapse in debt. Totally eliminate the Fractional Reserve banking system. All economic projects instead should be financed with equity or with time deposit loans (CDs). Then as the economy expands and the supply of goods and services increases, prices for goods and services will naturally fall which increases real wages.

[Anonymous No.12462038]

Because they're retarded and can't grasp why they can't make 100k with a C average journalism or political science degree to pay back the 100k in student loans they signed for.

[Anonymous No.12462039]

Capitalism and communism are 2 sides of the same shekels you dumb goys.

[Anonymous No.12462074]

>>12461503
because its a fucking scam

[Anonymous No.12462107]

Marx was 100% correct. All capitalism was was a stage of development in the history of economic systems, that was absolutely necessary and a big advancement from the agrarian feudalism that came before it.

But what the modern libertardians and ancraps fail to realise is that it will necessarily get replaced when technological and social change demands it, and we are coming towards the latter phase of its existence

You should neither hate or love capitalism, simply observe it

[Anonymous No.12462164]

>>12462038
This has been a convenient argument for the last two decades, but when does it end? I'm sure you've heard of people with law degrees, phds, and finance degrees who can't find work. At some point you have to start questioning it a little. And ask who's winning the game we created and who's losing this game, and if the winners are not people who you respect and losers are people you should respect, then maybe it's better to just find a new game to play.

That's not to say socialism or communism is better, it has also been an abysmal failure. I think part of the problem is that we are unwilling to imagine something better than any of our previous choices. But maybe there's a new and better choice we can make instead of what we have. Not paradise, or utopia, just marginal improvement with more marginal improvement to follow.

[Anonymous No.12462216]

>>12462022

i think both schools of thought offer insight into the economy but at the end of the day the dumb monkey brains we have are what cause all the problems

[Anonymous No.12462226]

Do you want to know why I hate capitalism? Visit any Third World country that is dominated by the United States. It is very easy to talk and judge in your North American bubble where you have everything

[Anonymous No.12462259]

>>12461993
I hear a lot of my American friends with good educations in fields that are in demand right now looking for work in Europe because they can't find work in America. When you're that educated and you have to go to other countries because there's no work in America, then that's the signal to get out before shit hits the fan.

[Anonymous No.12462265]

>>12462226
That's not real capitalism.

[Anonymous No.12462291]

>>12461503

It's very, very simple
>kids look around their environment to learn successful reproductive strategies
>the best example: Their parents and grandparents
>their parents and grandparents lived off of creating huge unsustainable debt through voting for rampant socialism

The more you know. Why the fuck should I work hard? Taxman is going to take all my extra work anyway. Prices are going up faster than wages anyway. It's all fucked and collapsing slowly at first, then very fast. I'm just prepping for the collapsed so I can watch all these stupid oblivious assholes die.

[Anonymous No.12462326]

we don't want to work all day and still be broke and live at home, when we could be unemployed and be broke and live at home. Why work for nothing? $7.25 and 24h a week is about $700 a month before taxes, rent in most places worth living is about $800 to $1,400 a month if it includes water/electric, another $200 to $500 for car payment/ insurance , $100 to $400 in food, $50 for a cell phone which is required to get a job. oh then you need things like respectable looking cloths, medical bills, student debt/bills and gas/oil/tires/brakes/wipers for the car. I worked for $9.60 /40h week and after two years i was worse off then when i stared, my car was worn out needing just about everything fix, all my cloths were tattered and looked like shit, my back and knees were sore for busting ass all day and somehow was eating worse compared to when i was a beach bum. Why in the fuk should i work all day if i gain nothing from it?

[Anonymous No.12462352]

Working just to survive is an outdated concept

[Anonymous No.12462370]

>leftypol raid thread

I almost feel sorry for you guys

[Anonymous No.12462405]

>>12461503
Young people in the west hate capitalism for two reasons: brainwashing and rents. The Brainwashing is pretty blatant and occurs at every level of society. Rents compound this by forcing young people into dead end jobs with long hours just to continue to live near other young people.

[Anonymous No.12462467]

>>12462107
based and redpilled

[Anonymous No.12463903]

>>12461503
I think this image is a bit of a joke but the kind of joke that only some cunt middle manager would find entertaining.

[Anonymous No.12463985]

>>12461993
>very little reward and demanding more and more effort
Relative, most of the world would be very happy with American wages.
That's what's happening, global labor arbitrage.
Socialism can only make people poorer by trying to insulate them from the market forces. It's nice initially as wealth gets consumed. Then it runs out and the economy collapses.
This happened literally every time.

[Anonymous No.12464011]

>>12462107
we dont have pure capitalism and everythign that si abd with our system is caused by teh state.

[Anonymous No.12464409]

>>12464011
Nope. The division of people between two classes: the workers and the owners will still exist in a capitalist but stateless organization. Same for the constant need to make profit in order to produce goods. The capitalist system is more and more outdated.

What is capitalism? Capitalism is the division of labor, and division of people into two classes (worker/owners), delegation of power, and the circulation of goods in order to make a profit. Without profit, no production.

Capitalism was very efficient until recently. Now young people must study more and more to have less and less wages. The logic of profit is stupid nowadays. Planned obsolescence, destruction of food because of it's overproduction, selling pharmaceuticals that don't even work just to make a profit or don't heal and make people worse, garbage food because it's cheaper (more sold, more profit) etc...

Trying communism again like USSR, China and Cuba did, i.e making communism happen with force, won't work. In any case, it was a failure since it wasn't even communism. There was still owners, workers. The production was still organized around profit, and the circulation of goods was the motor of the production for what i know. It was state organized capitalism.

The next mode of production must allocate goods without the necessity to make a profit. And the goods must circulate, or better: be allocated, without what is currently the motor of the capitalist mode of production: money. A money-less society were production is allocated without profit and money. The production should be allocated regarding the needs of people, and not because of the profit the distribution of goods generates.

[Anonymous No.12464445]

>>12464409
>In any case, it was a failure since it wasn't even communism
everytime

[Anonymous No.12464545]

>>12464409
>The next mode of production must allocate goods without the necessity to make a profit.
Profit represents the fact that the cycle of production is infinitely repeatable: outputs can be used to acquire inputs and more.
A loss means the opposite: you would be better off not making something, because it's worth less than used inputs. Permanent loss is how you end up dying from starvation as you consume everything.
>currently the motor of the capitalist mode of production: money
Money is only an imperfect representation of value and has nothing to do with profit or loss, they exist regardless. Play any strategy game or ideally factorio to understand that.

The output must be able to reproduce the inputs + a bit more or everything stops. In other words must be profitable.

[Anonymous No.12464570]

>>12464445
In fact despite small scale communities and the last primitive tribes, there is an example of communism achieved in recent history.

It was revolutionary Catalonia.

However, they got massacred by the capitalist republic and the communist party (which was backed up by the russian bolsheviks (soviets)).

[Anonymous No.12464641]

All Capitalism is susposed to mean is freedom to do business how you want within simple laws. The West does not have Capitalism...it has crony capitalism where only the rich can afford to jump through the legal hoops to run any serious business.

Imagine someone could rent a store and just make pizzas and sell them for cash...no stifling laws. Just make pizza and id people choose to buy them they hand you some money which you can 100% keep without paying taxes. Thats Capitalism and probabaly hasnt been the case for decades now in the West.

[Anonymous No.12464676]

Oh and that money wasnt fucking bs fiat created by the gov and banks working together to inflate your eaened money away constantly....The FED has to end or America can never become great again. Maybe Bitcoin can bring back true Capitalism along with decentralization of power and law with smart contracts etc..hopefully. but the old system has to implode first.

[Anonymous No.12464823]

>That pic
>Needy codependent boss that is desperate for validation and for people to dedicate their entire life to making them money

YIKES. No thanks

[Anonymous No.12464849]

>>12464545
>The output must be able to reproduce the inputs + a bit more or everything stops. In other words must be profitable.

You know your shit. That's how capitalism works.

I want a system which allocate goods without this.

Feudalism, for example, didn't work like that.

In primitive tribes, there is an equilibrium. Outputs are not inputs + a bit more. Outputs are used directly.

A non capitalist system would not need outputs to acquire inputs and more.

Outputs would be directly allocated regarding the needs of people.

[Anonymous No.12464897]

>>12464676
You want an anterior version of capitalism.

Capitalism doesn't work like that. It advance, again and again, becoming more and more efficient, until it meets it's internal contradictions. And then it collapses definitively. That time is close (decades only).

[Anonymous No.12465248]

>>12464849
>Feudalism, for example, didn't work like that.
It did, peasants were the basic factor of production. They made enough food to reproduce themselves.
>Outputs are not inputs + a bit more.
They are. They have to spent less energy at getting food than they get in return. If they don't they starve and die.
Literally everything works like that, it's the basic fact of life.

[Anonymous No.12465496]

>>12465248
Profit was not the motor of production in feudalism. Constant increase of production wasn't needed for the system to perpetuate itself. It was less ressource hungry (human and natural ressources) than capitalism.

You seem to mix up what is needed, basic human needs with the monstrously hungry capitalistic mode of production. Planned obsolescence for example shouldn't be needed in a sane mode of production.

We produce low quality goods, they broke, we throw them away, buy new ones, they broke, etc...

Our products are not upgradable, and are very low quality.

Imagine an upgradable car. It could work for millions of kilometers, and the motor could be changed for a better one every decade. But no. Capitalism need to make profit. Thus constantly selling new low quality shit that broke, selling again the same shit etc... In order to perpetuate itself.

[Anonymous No.12465532]

>>12461503
The economic books said that technology will replace jobs and workers would go off and find new jobs and be better off. What really happened is half the workforce dropped out of the labor market and went on disability or got addicted to opiods. These models are only models. They may work out over a period of 100 years, but real people live by the day.

[Anonymous No.12465991]

>>12465496
>Profit was not the motor of production in feudalism.
It was, most of the profits just weren't reinvested, mostly consumed or used for war.
Without surplus people just starved.
>It was less ressource hungry (human and natural ressources) than capitalism
No shit that's why it was miserable.
>Imagine an upgradable car. It could work for millions of kilometers, and the motor could be changed for a better one every decade.
That wouldn't be very efficient, there's always something else to upgrade. Most of resources in a car are recyclable, definitely everything that's made of metal. There are hardly any savings from clinging to an old form.

The reason the repair job for most things died off is that repair labor is too expensive. It can't really be automated, while building new stuff is automated.

The main problem with socialism is that there's zero incentive to improve things. Failure always get blamed on one person while success is shared, and the actual inventor gets a worthless medal at best. So even if production is magically perfect there's no innovation.

[Anonymous No.12465997]

People who used to be farmers and craftsmen are being replaced by big industry and Chinese factories.
Sure the gdp might increase but it's the 1% that profits.
>just get an education dumbo
Some people truly aren't smart enough for that. But the simple jobs are replaced and as house prices keep rising people are out on the street and desperate

[Anonymous No.12466212]

>>12462352
How to gibs?

[Anonymous No.12466226]

>>12463985
Daily reminder that true socialism has never been tried.

[Anonymous No.12466290]

>>12465991
I'm not in favor of socialism. In socialism there is still private property of the means of production and profit as a motor. Socialism is a branch of capitalism.

If one wants to opt out of capitalism, there is not other way than to find a way to make private property and money obsolete.

That's it. No other way.

About planned obsolescence, i'm not sure than light bulbs need only to last 1000 hours, and that is and efficient way of producing goods.

About the car example, there aren't any saving from clinging to an old form mostly because cars aren't made upgradable from the begining. Maybe cars wouldn't last 100 year if they were upgradable, but definitively more than the planned obsolescent shit we all have for goods.


However, like Macintosh products and most smartphones, Capitalism likes a non upgradable design.


In a capitalistic world, everything is produced fast, but is shit. Our world gives me the impression that it is made of cardboard. Not pretty, not durable.

Human relationships are tainted by alienation and the fakery of the workplace. The goods do not serve us, we serve the goods, their production and circulation.


In any case capitalism is doomed to fail because of the tendency of the rate of profit to fall.

You seem to like capitalism and defend it. However, remember that it'll get worse and worse as the years pass. There will be no miracle, no recovery. The world won't get better. Even if the 2020s could be good years globally, the limit of capitalism will show more and more as time pass, and it will be more and more difficult to make people believe that it is a good mode of production. Defending capitalism will be more and more of an upstream battle.

[Anonymous No.12466475]

>>12462107
the most based thing I have read on this inbred board

[Anonymous No.12466494]

>>12462107

[Anonymous No.12466615]

what is this new hot /pol/ meme about unironically advocating for feudalism

[Anonymous No.12466633]

Capitalism is the most destructive system white men have ever forced upon the world

[Anonymous No.12466649]

>>12466633
I think we should add deaths caused by hurricanes and earthquakes to the list.

[Anonymous No.12466701]

>>12466649
I know you are joking, but considering capitalism is the reason why global warming is happening. We know for a fact that it creates more destructive hurricanes and other extreme weather events so they absolutely should be included.

[Anonymous No.12466726]

>>12463985
but if given to the same economic conditions as americans and assuming they become a first world country then those people would feel the same discourse americans are experiencing.

[Anonymous No.12466742]

>>12466701
I don't think capitalism forces humanity to use fossil fuels.

[Anonymous No.12466744]

>>12466615
the modern term for that is "basic income"
it's a forced meme championed by the brain damaged

[Anonymous No.12466873]

>>12466633
>he thinks 3rd world savages are worth saving

You worthless faggot, the reason why those 3rd world trash are starving is because organizations rooted in communism artificially over inflate the 3rd world trash. Since they can't sustain themselves, they experience boom and bust cycles in terms of hungriness unlike anything every seen in history.

tl;dr: nigger lovers like you get the rope and once you stop feeding the savages, their populations will shrink to sustainable levels and mass famine will no longer occur.

as a white man I am not obligated to take care of your worthless fucking self. little bitch runt.

[Anonymous No.12466946]

>>12466742
Capitalism prioritizes production and needless consumerism with disregard to humans and the environment. It is the reason why we are using fossil fuels and not moving on to renewable energy.

[Anonymous No.12466959]

>>12466226
Exactly.

[Anonymous No.12466968]

>>12466946
Renewable energy sources have some serious drawbacks (besides the pollution they create during fabrication) and batteries have a lower energy density than fossil fuels.

[Anonymous No.12466984]

>>12466968
A socialist government could direct the economy in ways that would develop those renewable resources in a way that capitalism never could or would.

[Anonymous No.12467025]

>>12466984
Renewable energy resources will be made in a capitalist due to higher demand for energy and the fossil fuels becoming more scarce.

[Anonymous No.12467065]

>>12462022
Completely wrong, the Austian School doesn't assume the business cycle will happen, it only presumes it happens under certain circumstance - ie when a market is not free. Intervention is the cause of the business cycle, the solution is to free the market. Not sure how you didn't know that considering you came to a similar conclusion.

[Anonymous No.12467077]

>>12464409
Your post is completely retarded. The majority of time people spend today isn't job related and is in fact a luxury good.

[Anonymous No.12467122]

>>12466984
That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. The government is the most incompetent organize ever created and we are totally dependent on non renewable. Without them our entire society would collapse and billions would die. What remains wouldn't look anything like what it does now.

The government making society drastically poorer isn't going to create some sort of energy revolution. The revolution will come, but not at the behest of the government. The government will only slow it down.

[Anonymous No.12467199]

>>12462107
>Marx was 100% correct.

Yeah, he was so correct that everyone who implemented his ideas created utopias that matched exactly what he had envisioned.

Oh wait, they didn't! Everyone remained poor and exploited by an elite class as before, but at least they all got the first steps right: killing all the rich and "rich" people indiscriminately and taking away their "means of production".

A new system may replace capitalism, but it sure as hell won't be some flowery paradise.

[Anonymous No.12467214]

>>12462265

And Venezuela, Mao's China, and Stalin's USSR weren't real socialism, but when people bring that up capitalist apologists call it a No True Scotsman argument and insist on using them as examples of why socialism "doesn't work".

[Anonymous No.12467232]

>>12462216
This is pretty much why the Austrian school essentially says not to fuck with the economy and let it sort itself out.

[Anonymous No.12467267]

>>12466946
Apart from hydroelectricity, renewable energy is highly inefficient and unreliable. Windfarms require special windy locations and large open spaces. Solar panels require sunlight to operate and a huge amount of them is required to support even a small town.

[Anonymous No.12467353]

>>12466290
>In any case capitalism is doomed to fail because of the tendency of the rate of profit to fall.
That means everything is getting cheaper all the time.
>In a capitalistic world, everything is produced fast, but is shit.
Because socialist products were famous for their quality lmao. Without competition no one cares about quality.
Even the shittest Western goods were luxury in ussr and 'friends'.
>However, remember that it'll get worse and worse as the years pass. There will be no miracle, no recovery.
The economy can grow several percent a year for hundreds of years. The solar system has enormous resources. Literally all we need is a robot that can replicate itself using resources available on eg. Mars or asteroids. In the long run this can be used to mine the galaxy.

The new western socialist ideation stem from a combination of socialism (social welfare), anti competitive regulation and an unwarranted sense of entitlement. Workers doing X are going to be paid the same whether they live in India or USA and nothing can stop this adjustment. This means the global average standard of living goes up, but Western goes down until convergence.
>and it will be more and more difficult to make people believe that it is a good mode of production.
The system only has to last until ai military robots. Then it doesn't matter what the majority thinks - social welfare disappears. Productive people would gain a lot, unproductive starve to death. That's the utopian future I hope for. I think it's realistic.

[Anonymous No.12468306]

>>12464641

Making pizza in the west :

Rent a place
Get the state to approve your place
Get the state to approve your kitchen
Get a food selling license
Buy ingredients
Make pizza
Sell pizza
Pay tax

1 of the above makes you money
The rest makes the state money

[Anonymous No.12468335]

>>12461503
You people are fucking idiots. No, I'm not going to argue with conplete retards advocating for socialism. You'd have to be the biggest moron in the world to want that.