/biz/ - Business & Finance

[Anonymous No.12137533]

Gold is the only real money (cant be manipulated by bankers)

change my mind

[Anonymous No.12137549]

>>12137533
>real money
What did he mean by this

[Anonymous No.12137550]

How does it feel to hold all those ((((federal reserve notes)))))

losers

on sunday i polish my gold

and guess what idiots? my 1 ounce bar of gold is still one ounce of gold forever. some banker cant decided that my 1 oz bar of gold isnt 1 oz of gold on a whim unlike your (((((notes)))))

[Anonymous No.12137558]

>>12137533
>Gold is immune to market fluctuating, short sale, Debeers diamond style market inflation/suppression, or govt forfeiture ala FDR.

[Anonymous No.12137567]

Literally nothing posted in this entire thread so far has been close to true.

[Anonymous No.12137571]

>cant be manipulated by bankers
>buying gold: fee is 20%
>selling gold: fee is 20%
>buying/selling p2p is illegal
>mining gold is illegal
>cant be manipulated by bankers

[Anonymous No.12137573]

>>12137558
>Gold is immune to market fluctuating, short sale, Debeers diamond style market inflation/suppression, or govt forfeiture ala FDR.

>((((gold paper notes))))) are the same as physical bars

>implying the government knows where everyone's gold is

my gold isnt in a bank account that i had to set up so the government knows where my money is and can take it

kek good one wagie

[Anonymous No.12137575]

Right up until asteroid mining starts.

[Anonymous No.12137578]

>>12137533
easy to fake
not divisible at will

geee I wonder why Bank Notes took off

[Anonymous No.12137583]

>>12137533
>(cant be manipulated by bankers)
HAHAHAHAHHA, wew

[Anonymous No.12137585]

>>12137578
You can divide pure gold fairly easily.

[Anonymous No.12137587]

>>12137567
what a typical boomer rebuttal. go mow your lawn and ask your broker if you should buy more amazon ((((stock)))

[Anonymous No.12137597]

>>12137533
>Can't be manipulated
Except for those ETF's, paper shorts, leveraged paper longs, and many others lol

[Anonymous No.12137599]

>>12137578
>easy to fake

pls tell me how you can artificially create an element? idiot


>not divisible at will

>implying you cant buy 1 gram, 10 gram, 25 gram, 1 oz, 5 oz, 10 oz etc of gold

[Anonymous No.12137600]

I agree.
But I cannot do it myself with ease.
You can cut 24 carat gold like butter with a sharp knife but still I don't have a way to make the cut good to pay you the right amount.

[Anonymous No.12137611]

>>12137597
>Except for those ETF's, paper shorts, leveraged paper longs, and many others lol

>(((((paper gold notes)))) are the same as physical gold

[Anonymous No.12137619]

>>12137550
What are you gonna buy with it?

[Anonymous No.12137629]

>>12137533
>>12137549
Answer me OP.
What is Real Money? And don't deflect, I don't like fiat either

[Anonymous No.12137632]

>>12137533
gold is good but old.

can be seized by states when crossing borders.

can't be programmed in our digital economy.

can't be sent instantly, it's too heavy.

can't be easily divided.

can't be used to buy things easily.

also there is so much gold in the universe that one day it'll be worth as much as quartz. isn't quartz beautiful to look at, well too bad it's worth nothing due to quantity.

bitcoin is superior
also op doesn't seem to know it exists when it talk about notes, topkek

[Anonymous No.12137636]

>>12137619
your wife

[Anonymous No.12137643]

>>12137599
>he thinks to fake means to create an element artificially
imagine being this much of a fucking subhuman brainlet

[Anonymous No.12137648]

>>12137619
your life when people finally wake up on R E A L M O N E Y

[Anonymous No.12137665]

>>12137533
>(cant be manipulated by bankers)
>change my mind
yea, I think you will have to change out mind first
gold is way easier to manipulate (artificially dillute the supply) than btc

[Anonymous No.12137666]

>>12137629
money is a medium of exchange that must be easily verified for authenticity (testing gold purity) and incredibly difficult to manipulate (you cant artificially create an element at will)

gold satisfies all of that

now tell me boomer, why are so beholden to the ((((notes))))

[Anonymous No.12137667]

>>12137611
You said it couldn't be fucking manipulated and I just listed many ways it could.

[Anonymous No.12137686]

>>12137643
>implying you cant melt gold and test its purity whenever you want

go buy some more ((((notes)))) wagie

this conversation isnt even worth my time

i have gold to polish

[Anonymous No.12137695]

>>12137632
you can do all of this with banks holding gold vaults, look at how goldmoney takes care of this, ofcourse there is still a risk that it will be seized during revolts, which btc doesnt have

[Anonymous No.12137698]

>>12137667
>You said it couldn't be fucking manipulated and I just listed many ways it could.

you listed ways ((((paper gold notes)))) can be manipulated you fucking dense boomer wagie

paper gold is not the same as physical gold

[Anonymous No.12137703]

>>12137666
"As a thought experiment, imagine there was a base metal as scarce as gold but with the following properties:

– boring grey in colour

– not a good conductor of electricity

– not particularly strong, but not ductile or easily malleable either

– not useful for any practical or ornamental purpose

and one special, magical property:

– can be transported over a communications channel

If it somehow acquired any value at all for whatever reason, then anyone wanting to transfer wealth over a long distance could buy some, transmit it, and have the recipient sell it.

Maybe it could get an initial value circularly as you’ve suggested, by people foreseeing its potential usefulness for exchange. (I would definitely want some) Maybe collectors, any random reason could spark it." - Satoshi Nakamoto

What do you think of bitcoin?

[Anonymous No.12137709]

I mean you get debunked every single day yet you keep making your stupid threads

[Anonymous No.12137711]

>>12137695
>yes yes yes poor man, trust us to hold your gold, we promise to always have gold in our vault for exchange with our ((((paper notes))))

[Anonymous No.12137716]

>>12137686
>not the point i was making fucking retard
gold is easy to fake like this anon said >>12137578 lots of tungsten covered gold out there and plenty of people do not have the means to melt it down to test, retard

[Anonymous No.12137727]

You fucking yanking my chain mate. Gold is one of the most manipulated assets of all time.

[Anonymous No.12137737]

>>12137533
Eat a dick.

[Anonymous No.12137747]

>>12137636
Based.

[Anonymous No.12137748]

>>12137711
well if you're not going to put trust in vaults than i don't know how you'll ever think gold could be adopted to trade with

[Anonymous No.12137751]

>>12137698
>paper gold is not the same as physical gold
but the price of your shiny rock gets cucked by the paper note because most people can't be bothered to buy and store physical gold due to spread in buy/sell price and storage hassle.

You and all the other goldbugs are betting on a global financial meltdown which may happen but what are you gonna do if the jews prop this ponzi long enough so that it's still going after you die? will you be holding onto your shiny rocks that no one wants because mr Schlomo ofers "paper" gold for cheaper price and more convenient?

[Anonymous No.12137756]

>gold is easy to fake like this anon said >>12137578 lots of tungsten covered gold out there and plenty of people do not have the means to melt it down to test, retard

YOU CAN TEST THE PURITY OF GOLD AFTER YOU MELT IT DOWN

TELL ME HOW YOU CAN VERIFY YOUR (((((NOTES)))) ARE REAL

FUCK OFF


>>12137727
YOU SHUT YOUR MOUTH WAGIE

SHHHHHHHHHHH

[Anonymous No.12137768]

>>12137533
>cant be manipulated
wrf did I just read?

[Anonymous No.12137776]

>>12137695
no, gold can't be programmed it is not digital.
banks can't do anything about matter in the universe.
goldmoney is certainly not gold, goldmoney is goldmoney.

banks holding it for you? kek

[Anonymous No.12137790]

>>12137737
>my overlord bankers will manipulate gold with paper notes to trick the population

im not tricked idiot

>but the price of your shiny rock gets cucked by the paper note because most people can't be bothered to buy and store physical gold due to spread in buy/sell price and storage hassle.

bankers come save me, i am too scared to hold physical gold! i need the bankers to feed me more ((((paper notes))))

bankers save me!!! print more (((((notes)))))

[Anonymous No.12137831]

Metal detectors at every airport.

Check mate.

[Anonymous No.12137870]

>>12137790
>bankers come save me, i am too scared to hold physical gold! i need the bankers to feed me more ((((paper notes))))
>
>bankers save me!!! print more (((((notes)))))
you can laugh but that's how most people think and they will stick to schlomo's safe and efficient (((paper gold))) over your physical rocks

[Anonymous No.12137875]

Another day another goldbug shows the world how utterly braindead he and his ilk are.

[Anonymous No.12137897]

>>12137533
>Not mentioning silver

Au stays inside. Ag moves around for him.

[Anonymous No.12137899]

>>12137790
>Gold is not manipulated by bankers.
Provides proof it’s manipulated
>No iT iSn’T. ReEeEeEeEeEeEeEeE

[Anonymous No.12137913]

>>12137571
>buying/selling p2p is illegal
>mining gold is illegal

Citation needed

[Anonymous No.12137929]

daily reminder that the gold price is literally controlled by the rothschilds

[Anonymous No.12137984]

>Gold is money, everything else is credit

What did JP Morgan mean by this

[Anonymous No.12138300]

>>12137619
>leaving fingerprints

[Anonymous No.12138418]

I have 1.5 once of gold on goldmoney, am I retarded?

[Anonymous No.12138428]

It's easier to buy coffee with btc than gold.

[Anonymous No.12138437]

>>12137533
>cant be manipulated by bankers

What are those countless notes of IOU's that are the primary way of trading gold right now?

[Anonymous No.12138571]

Who likes silver?

[Anonymous No.12138579]

>>12138571
i got 50 oz

[Anonymous No.12138584]

>>12137533
SHINEY ROCK !!!!

[Anonymous No.12139019]

Holy shit you're retarded.

[Anonymous No.12139099]

>>12138571
>ww3 in ID
>owns PM
>has black cat && isn’t a dog loving cuck

You are one hell of a guy, anon.

[gommie faggot !!ybZU7IbD8fv No.12139218]

>>12137533
Gold is a commodity, it's not used as money at this moment in time as it's not a medium of exchange, it's just a store of value in a not dissimilar way to other commodities, although it's demand is subject to more speculation than others perhaps.

Regardless, "real" and "money" are oxymoron, the first thing in economics is understanding the difference between real and nominal value.

>>12137666
that something can hypothetically be a good medium of exchange is not the same as it actually being a medium of exchange. People generally don't use gold coins to pay for shit at the grocery store anymore.

[Anonymous No.12139250]

>>12139218
gold isnt an "hypothetical" medium of exchange you fucking idiot

it was the standard for money until financiers took over the money creation through fiat currency

fiat currency is the anomaly, it is the new "money"

gold has been used for 2 thousand years

[gommie faggot !!ybZU7IbD8fv No.12139262]

>>12137756
Having to melt down gold to test it's purity is a pretty costly endeavor when compared to say, waving an ultraviolet light on some bills. I guess there are some x-ray scanners that might work, but even when somewhat modern economies have used a gold standard they've just used notes as stand-ins for it most of the time.

>>12139250
Debt money and commodity money have existed throughout history at different points in time, neither are new or anomalous. My point is that it's a simple fact that gold is not used as a medium of exchange today.

[Anonymous No.12139272]

> can't be manipulated by bankers

oh my god this board

[Anonymous No.12139282]

>>12137533
>cant be manipulated by bankers
aahahahhahahahahahahaha

[Anonymous No.12139285]

>>12137600
A scale?

[Anonymous No.12139295]

>>12137578
Bank notes are also easy to fake in fact it happens so often that they literally had to create a law to stop it from happening

[Anonymous No.12139305]

>>12139295
>Bank notes are also easy to fake
not the current ones with modern security features it's easier to make fake gold coins than fake bills.

[Anonymous No.12139324]

>>12137737
Thanks! Got more like this one?

[Anonymous No.12139325]

>>12139262
yeah you have no point; fiat money and fractional reserve banking are all an anomaly, brought to you by none other than corrupt, financiers, who have manipulated the money supply to increase their wealth at the behest of every citizen, not only that but when they fuck up they get bailed out by tax money

gold was the bedrock until a couple decades ago

you have fiat currency backed by nothing being used for less than 50 years, meanwhile you have gold/silver/copper being used for thousands of years

yeah i really wonder what is the better choice?

[Anonymous No.12139332]

>>12139305
US Treasury says there is actually counterfeit money still in circulation.

>it's easier to make fake gold coins than fake bills

I guess but it's a lot easier to test gold for counterfeiting than to test a bill.

[Anonymous No.12139351]

>>12137533
>Gold is the only real money (cant be manipulated by bankers)

JPMorgan Gold-Spoofer Admits "Manipulating Precious Metals Markets" For Years

You are just a flesh puppet for the real masters of this world. Accept it and let it happen.

[Anonymous No.12139364]

>>12139332
sorry most us bills are a joke, i have had 100 bills in my hand they look more like monopoly money than real bills. in this one regard my country is about 50 years before the us. everything else sucks tho.

[Anonymous No.12139365]

>>12139305
the whole point is not that joe blow can come along and make fake gold with tungsten, its that it can easily be found out and the market would never trust that merchant, meanwhile private bankers dont even have to physically create fake money, they have no need, they can just add a couple digits to their electronic holdings and boom now they have more money, you cant do that with gold, it is an element, you cant just claim you discovered 1 ton of gold out of thin air, it would be easily discovered because you dont physically have the gold

[Anonymous No.12139391]

>>12139364
I don't care but thanks for sharing your opinion.

[Anonymous No.12139424]

>>12139365
>they can just add a couple digits to their electronic holdings and boom now they have more money
that's not how it works tho, what happens is the following
>you walk into bank
>take out a loan, promise to pay back in x years with p interest.
>you sign the contract (the liability part of the transaction)
>bank credits the numbers to your account
true the bank didn't had any of those bills or anything else to back the numbers up than your liability, but they have to show the appropriate liability or backing contract for any singly digit they type into the system. it gets audited obviously.

[Anonymous No.12139448]

>>12139351
if this conspiracy theory about JP Morgan price suppression is true, why aren't you hording massive amounts of physical metals? Not that I necessarily believe it but this "you got owned because your gold is actually worth more than you think" doesn't really sting all that much when you really think about it

[Anonymous No.12139457]

>>12137571
>he doesn't get silver for free
lmao fucking pleb. I'll never give away my secret.

[Anonymous No.12139458]

>>12139391
well you are saying stupid shit, if the us bills suck they need an upgrade you criticize the system that works well enough based on lazy practice of a single country. that's like saying sh256 is not secure for password hashing because if you set your birthday as your password it can be easily guessed.

[gommie faggot !!ybZU7IbD8fv No.12139468]

>>12139325
Fiat money existed in China from 1000 to 1300 AD, and debt has been used in money throughout most of Europe's history since most people didn't actually have access to gold or silver coins, or if they did, only used them for exceptionally important or large purchases.

That financiers issue debt to make money has been a historical constant since nearly the dawn of civilization. Perhaps the second oldest profession behind prostitution. Having your currency denominated in gold does nothing to stop this because debt can always be used in place of "real" money, the promise of future payments can take the form of any kind of payment, and has.

[Anonymous No.12139516]

>>12139458
The bills released in the past few years are actually quite fancy but I don't really give a shit because the "security features" of the US bills are a relative non issue when compared to the more pressing issues of US monetary policy. Also I do not care about your opinion on US bills and your gay ass currency. Clearly im a precious metals autist with no real idealistic attachment to currency so why do you think I care?

[Anonymous No.12139522]

Anything can be manipulated; but regulators will spot it unless its some nebulous new market no one but a handful of people truly understands; IE crypto. Shitcoins and Bitcoin are fucking terminal; everything they was supposed to be was chucked out by 2013. 2017 is when they went after normies, not just neckbeards.

[Anonymous No.12139543]

>>12139522
What were they supposed to be? Bitcoin still functions just the same as it did 5 years ago. Nothing has changed unless you're a speculator looking to get rich quick.

[Anonymous No.12139563]

>>12139516
yeah but you said
>Bank notes are also easy to fake in fact it happens so often that they literally had to create a law to stop it from happening
which is blatantly false then you say you don't care for the counter points. fuck you!

[Anonymous No.12139579]

>>12139262
>commodity money
money is always debt, if you exchange commodity for commodity that's a barter. when you exchange goods or services for money that's purchase.

[gommie faggot !!ybZU7IbD8fv No.12139610]

>>12139579
Well that's just the thing is that commodity money is using a commodity to pay for things. Generalized commodity markets means that you know what the exchange rate is between all the different goods to one another, which allows commonly held commodities to be universally traded instead of barter. This is the adam smith theory of how money came about and is generally held by most economists. Although it's historically not accurate, it does make certain commodities usable as money.

[Anonymous No.12139626]

I never came to /biz/ before because I figured I didn't know much about it but a lot of you are dummies like me.

The price of gold is pretty much an inverse of the market so, at least indirectly, it is manipulated by the puppeteers like everything else.

Everything is money.

[Anonymous No.12139627]

>>12139610
>Well that's just the thing is that commodity money is using a commodity to pay for things.
no that's not how money works at all

[Anonymous No.12139630]

>>12139563
But that's literally true you moron. But all it takes is one person with the expertise to counterfeit your highly secure bills and you could potentially have money that is next to near impossible for the average person to distinguish from authentic Treasury circulated bills. Gold and silver on the other hand will always have defined properties that do not require a professional level auditor to distinguish real from fakes. Another issue you run into with currency is older bills in circulation with less security features to emulate. Also the biggest issue with typical currency is actually the counterfeiters at the top, the central banks of the world. Thanks for reading

[Anonymous No.12139643]

>imagine not buying gold at 300
>imagine not buying gold at 1200
>the next booster shot takes it to 5k
Notice the pattern the longer you wait to buy the more you get left behind. Yes btc is good also but profits need to go into gold for real savings.

[Anonymous No.12139649]

>>12139630
>But all it takes is one person with the expertise to counterfeit your highly secure bills
not happening the bills are rotated out before convincing fakes can be introduced to retail

[gommie faggot !!ybZU7IbD8fv No.12139658]

>>12139627
That's not how money currently works, because we do not use commodity money. If we were all using lumps of gold to pay for shit, however, it wouldn't be debt money, because it's not a promise of future payment/revenue, ect. It's value comes from it's value on the market.

[Anonymous No.12139665]

>>12139630
>Also the biggest issue with typical currency is actually the counterfeiters at the top, the central banks of the world.
central banks don't create money try again!

[Anonymous No.12139676]

>>12139658
no i'm saying money in general from the beginnings of it's existence have always been debt. an iou. when gold coins were money gold was just a security/anti-forgery feature but money was still debt. money is a special form of debt that comes to as close to zero holders risk as possible with debt.

[Anonymous No.12139678]

buy shiny rock sirs very inflammation proof honest rupee sirs real investment

[Anonymous No.12139730]

>>12139649
All old bills are rotated out? You are insane. Unless police are going door to door confiscating old bills or people are compelled by force to turn in their old bills for exchange you are full of shit. So what, someone has some older revision of your bills because they kept them stored under their mattress or found it between the couch and you cannot accept it?

>>12139665
Yeah alright buddy. It's not like Western Europeans and North Americans haven't lost a ton of their buying power in the past few decades right? Meanwhile if you held your savings in precious metals (specifically gold) you would have kept up with the rate of inflation. And at the end of the day, that would be the end problem of widespread counterfeiting, right? A reduction in buying power?

[gommie faggot !!ybZU7IbD8fv No.12139741]

>>12139676
When money first appeared in a recognizable form it was a grain commodity in Mesopotamia, the central temple complexes regulated it's exchange rate with other commodities, and it's logic was that of a commodity, not debt, although debt almost certainly existed.

[gommie faggot !!ybZU7IbD8fv No.12139768]

>>12139730
Gold's real value is pretty volatile anon, sure, you can use it to escape inflation but that's true with most commodities because they have real exchange value. Gold can on certain occasions be a good investment, but if the current level of speculation around it's price continued it'd make for a bad currency much in the same way bitcoin would make a bad currency as it'd make menu prices go through the roof.

[Anonymous No.12139803]

>>12139730
>All old bills are rotated out? You are insane. Unless police are going door to door confiscating old bills or people are compelled by force to turn in their old bills for exchange you are full of shit.
nah usually they just announce the end date it is legal tender and can be used to purchase with and people rush to get rid of the soon worthless paper. in the meantime they stop issuing them in atms, banks and post offices and it works. old bills disappear from circulation new ones are upgraded.

>>12139741
no you don't get it, no matter what form money takes it is always debt. the physical representation of debt is the security feature. people often misunderstand this altogether. what gives money value is the ability or say the promise to purchase you goods and services you need in the future (it's a fucking iou). that's the first and most important function of money second being a unit of account. rest of it is either derived from this two or minor improvements.

[Anonymous No.12139814]

>>12139768
Gold isn't an investment. The volatility doesn't really matter if you're using it as a long term hedge.

>sure, you can use it to escape inflation

Yes, exactly. I agree.

[gommie faggot !!ybZU7IbD8fv No.12139874]

>>12139803
You're fundamentally confusing how an IOU works. An IOU demands future payment from a given individual, and usually has interest associated with it as a result. When you are given money, even debt money, using that money to buy other goods is not having that IOU be paid. When you use debt money and you have a promissory note, exchanging that note between people isn't the payment of that promissory note, rather, it's transferring ownership of that note and whoever holds it at the date of maturity gets the payment.

When you exchange a good for another good from someone, and use that good to exchange for something you actually want from a third person, that's the logic of generalized market exchange, that's the logic of commodities.

>>12139814
Gold is used as an investment right now, that's an empirical fact.

>Yes, exactly. I agree
And as I stated, that doesn't necessarily make it either a good currency or investment. It just makes it a commodity that's durable.

[Anonymous No.12139876]

>>12137533
Good people, time, ressources, work and progress is the real money. Can't prove me wrong biatch.

[Anonymous No.12139882]

>>12139803
>nah usually they just announce the end date it is legal tender and can be used to purchase with and people rush to get rid of the soon worthless paper

That's retarded and massively inconvenient. Not even the EU would do something so intrusive.

[gommie faggot !!ybZU7IbD8fv No.12139884]

>>12139876
The word you might be looking for is "value" which isn't quite the same thing as money.

[Anonymous No.12139897]

>>12137583
This jesus christ top kek.
What do you thini happens when gold whales unload/buy en masse?

[Anonymous No.12139914]

>>12137533
>Gold
only valuable because people pretend its valuable
>fiat
only valuable because people with guns pretend it's valuable
Fiat 1 Gold 0

[Anonymous No.12139915]

>>12139874
>And as I stated, that doesn't necessarily make it either a good currency or investment. It just makes it a commodity that's durable.

Yes, exactly. It's not a currency nor is it an investment, I agree. I cannot tell if you're arguing with me or agreeing with me.

>Gold is used as an investment right now, that's an empirical fact.

Well it's not a very good investment because it really doesn't yield all that much as far as dividends go.

[gommie faggot !!ybZU7IbD8fv No.12139936]

>>12139915
That it's not a /good/ investment, doesn't make it not an investment, just like apple stock. There are several classes of commodities that are treated like investments, besides precious metals there's oil and agriculture products.

[Anonymous No.12139964]

>>12139874
>An IOU demands future payment from a given individual
yes but, there are iou-s that are less specific they demand future goods or services to the bearer like you know money.
>it's transferring ownership of that note
yes anyone ever accepting money for anything expects that he can use it to pay for shit obviously.

>When you exchange a good for another good from someone, and use that good to exchange for something you actually want from a third person, that's the logic of generalized market exchange, that's the logic of commodities.
it's called barter, you exchange value for value in theory with no medium of exchange. but here is the problem the seasonality of goods localization of services and expiration of said goods and transportability all make it mighty inconvenient. that's why we left the barter system it was cumbersome and overall shit. introducing money (which was precluded by simple debt) made everything a hundred times easier. now you had debt that was interchangeable or fungible, divisible and it had a physical form that was durable and convenient to store and transport. huge improvement.

[Anonymous No.12139971]

>>12139936
That's what I mean when I say precious metals aren't an investment. It's hyperbole more than anything. Of course it can be an investment like anything else, but it's a bad investment and we clearly agree. This is just semantics at this point.

[Anonymous No.12139977]

>>12139882
i'm telling you shit happens all the time you usually got like 2 years of notice they stop issuing expired bills at that point. it's not particularly inconvenient as most people only keep enough cash for a months groceries and bills tops. storing a stack of bills is retarded. electronic payment is just too widespread and convenient anyhow.

[Anonymous No.12139983]

>The interesting point is the manipulators know that if they rally the metals, the retail goldbugs rush in and buy proclaiming its the bull market every time. The manipulators then routinely turn around and sell to goldbugs at the top and the markets crash. This has become standard procedure protected by the CFTC and the goldbugs buy the high every single time without fail.
Source:
https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/uncategorized/are-markets-manipulated-all-the-time/

[Anonymous No.12139990]

>>12137533
>hundreds of times as much Gold paper traded than actually exists
>not manipulated by bankers

How retarded are you boomer gold shills? Gold is great, everyone should hold some. But it's not the magic bullet you think it is.

[gommie faggot !!ybZU7IbD8fv No.12140009]

>>12139964
> there are iou-s that are less specific they demand future goods or services to the bearer like you know money.
Doesn't change the fact that transferring ownership of an IOU isn't the fulfillment of that IOU.

While debt was certainly important to the development of generalized commodity markets, it didn't work in the way you're describing, with exchange being the payment of some abstract IOU. Money is also a unit of account, btw, and generally that role was initially played by commodities not pure representations of debt.

[Anonymous No.12140014]

>>12139977
It seems more like a roundabout way of banks to keep a tab on how much wealth the non-electronic population has on hand. To be honest if my country were to ever issue a mandatory ultimatum on old bills I would advise literally anyone just say fuck you and convert it all to gold and silver. That's orwellian nonsense.

[Anonymous No.12140019]

>>12139914
When the people with guns no longer believe, what do you believe will happen?

[Anonymous No.12140023]

>>12139990
>everyone should hold some
i couldn't disagree more
gold is great for electronics actual useful stuff i don't even think people should wear gold jewelry. it's an industrial metal.

[Anonymous No.12140073]

>>12140009
>Doesn't change the fact that transferring ownership of an IOU isn't the fulfillment of that IOU.
yes and no, technically money never has to be fulfilled it doesn't have a specific due date. like i said it's special because there is always new economic performance in the future that it can represent.

say i get an apple from a friend and i say i will give it back to you here is this paper saying "i will give 1 apple to the bearer of this paper" signed and shit. now my friend borrows an apple from his friend he could issue his own iou or say you either give this to me or my other friend either of us will give you 1 apple in the future. and so on and so on. once the bill gets back to you and you give that person an apple for it you could tear the bill up, but you could also "reissue" it why bother typing the same shit out it's actually reusable if you want to borrow an apple from someone next week.

i know it all sounds counter intuitive at first but try to grok on it for a bit.
>Money is also a unit of account
yes a fungible generalized iou is also a unit of account.

[gommie faggot !!ybZU7IbD8fv No.12140220]

>>12140073
When debt and literal IOUs have been used for money they generally still had due dates. And what we have right now for money is not literal IOUs but debt backed money, in this case backed by US treasury bonds.

The point remains, however, when the first person trades the IOU for another apple he is not fulfilling the original payment, the person still owes him an apple. Even when the original person gets a hold of the IOU and trades it the person they originally owed an apple to it doesn't automatically clear the debt. All it would do is create negative accounts towards each other which they can decide to clear if they agree to. You are once again conflating how market exchange and value works with how debt works. Debt is a contract and it's thus not automatically cleared even when equivalent exchange occurs between the original parties involved.

>a fungible generalized iou is also a unit of account.
And that's not been the unit of account for when commodity money has been in place.

[Anonymous No.12140234]

Palladium is the real money. Ask the Soviets.

[Anonymous No.12140324]

>>12140220
>it doesn't automatically clear the debt
yeah it does, because the debt is fungible the 3 of you have a total amount of credit and it doesn't change. money is a special kind of iou that is fulfilled by the entire market if you wish it represents the total amount of debt of society divided by the number of ious. it always had and it has today as well. i would argue nothing important changed only how the risk is passed around who holds it and for how long.

[Anonymous No.12140331]

>>12137533
>money is a medium of exchange that must be easily verified for authenticity (testing gold purity)
currencies don't work if a government doesn't have the ability to at least match the money supply to the country's economic output.
gold was stable for so long because a nation's ability to produce gold was linked to agricultural, or it's ability to feed and finance gold production. that's no longer the case since the industrial revolution allowed a country's industrial production to leave it's gold production in the dust.

[Anonymous No.12140342]

>>12140331
>a nation's ability to produce gold
well imagine if only countries that have gold mines could issue their own currency as their economy grows... lol. that's like 5 country total?

[Anonymous No.12140346]

>>12137666
>money is a medium of exchange that must be easily verified for authenticity (testing gold purity)
>easily verified
how do you easily verify a pack of gum's worth of gold?

[Anonymous No.12140356]

Why hasn't anyone posted the meme that one ounce of gold will always purchase a good men's suit?

[Anonymous No.12140395]

>>12140356
because it's blatant lies and deception?
the price of gold over the past century has fluctuated by a factor of 10, and a "good" suit is subjective and can mean any number of things with a huge variance in price. no shit you can have a statement as vague as that come out true under some interpretation.

[gommie faggot !!ybZU7IbD8fv No.12140420]

>>12140324
Saying "money is a special kind of IOU" and then defining it in a way that doesn't match any actually existing IOU is incredibly silly and near praxeology tier detachment from reality. Also, saying nothings changed means you loose an incredible amount of analytical power with regards to periods where money was backed by commodities versus when it was backed by debt alone.

[Anonymous No.12140453]

>>12140420
money is not backed by commodities people that say that lie no exceptions money as all debt is backed by economic performance or its not money

[gommie faggot !!ybZU7IbD8fv No.12140471]

>>12140453
This comes off as incredibly dogmatic.

[Anonymous No.12140481]

>>12137533
BTC has overtaken its role as the HARDEST, SOUNDEST money there is. Gold still has its place though, but BTC has improved in every way. It is not physical (can't be confiscated), censorship resistant (gold isnt), politically neutral, and mathematically limited in amount (asteroid gold mining in the future)

[Anonymous No.12140494]

>>12140420
iou is indeed more specific than money strictly speaking money is debt usual iou is debt they got things in common and differences also if you want iou is a security usually denoted in money often claiming interest and due date. but ious can claim a quantity of a commodity or equal value with no due date easily.

[Anonymous No.12140515]

>>12140471
im just really annoyed by the "gold is real money" crowd
fucking boomer rocks are nothing special
since they like to throw around dogmatic definitions i try to get through to them the same way to maybe jolt a braincell.

[Anonymous No.12140540]

>>12140481
i agree bitcoin is better than gold in every which way except for one
you dont need go pay tax to jihan chink chung to transact in gold which you also do offline but the future is clearly online so whatever.

[Anonymous No.12140581]

>>12140515
people who insist on gold or crypto are tied up in a political mindset instead of a financial one.
I like to fuck around with them from time to time but I wouldn't count on being able to change their sense of identity with strait facts

[Anonymous No.12140616]

pls sir, buy shiny rock, is very value and very shiny, buy now sirs

[Anonymous No.12140618]

>>12140481
>asteroid gold mining
I truly wish you people would die in a fire. One Saturn 5 rocket cost as much as an aircraft carrier back in 1970, what do you thing a similar machine would cost today that could make it all the way to an asteroid, land and return with more than a few dozen kilograms of fucking rocks?

[Anonymous No.12140622]

>>12140618
I suggest you watch the new NatGeo documentary on SpaceX

[Anonymous No.12140657]

>>12140618
i dont think asteroid mining will be a reality for a few hundred years but you can probably drop metals back to earth wrapped in a ceramic or cheap metallic container mined also in space gold will survive the impact.

[Anonymous No.12140762]

>>12140657
in fact auto rotating space capsules built in space could take back shit that is crash sensitve even

[Anonymous No.12140862]

>>12140023

Nah, the very fact that bankers manipulate it as a hedge is itself why you hold it - I agree it's just a shiny metal with a limited set of industrial applications though.

[Anonymous No.12140880]

>>12140019
Etherium

[Anonymous No.12141481]

damage control as BTC steals half of those 7.8 trillion in a couple of years

suicide watch for gold manlets

[Anonymous No.12141664]

>>12137533
It can plausibly be manipulated on a mass scale.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tB2IYja8I3Q

[Anonymous No.12141778]

>>12137550
And?

You think KFC will accept payment in gold bars for your tendies?

Money changes so it’s fluctuation will change - even if it’s minuscule ( bigger amounts increase difference drastically ). This implies the amount of gold you receive will change - and gold is no different if you want to actually BUY something. The amount of notes you get will increase or decrease depending on its current value based fluctuations.


Also - when it comes to security - gold is stable sure - but so are bottle caps once fallout occurs. Bullets like in metro, etc.

Gold is valuable only because if it’s nature, it’s weight in history and how it’s not as common here on earth. There are planets and asteroids made of or abundant with gold hundreds of times bigger than earth. Gold had use in technology but I wonder how long until a super predecessor comes that even diminishes gold’s use like in headphone and cable end coatings.

You guys are so bought into the history you forget it’s worthless. It’s worthless because tomorrow XYZ could be made into history and will hold value because XYZ reason.

[Anonymous No.12142000]

>>12137571
gold and silver used to be industrial but are now byproducts

its still a fucking good idea to hodl some shiny rocks unless you are absolutely certain (((they))) wont screw you over from now till retirement (they will btw)

[Anonymous No.12143160]

>>12137686
Buddy you don't even own a ounce

[Anonymous No.12143171]

>>12137756
Haha

[Anonymous No.12144219]

>>12137575
not in your lifetime zoomer