Capitalism

[Anonymous No.11974069]

Why do communists/socialists assume that most businesses are sole proprietorships? In nearly every example, they talk about "the capitalist" getting rich from passive income, while the workers generate all the value. This really isn't the case anymore. Corporations are far more complex than that.

[Anonymous No.11974081]

>>11974069
Is there is a minimum wage, shouldn't there be a maximum wage?
And if so what should it be?

[Anonymous No.11974103]

You have to be under several spells of stupidity to even consider communism

[Anonymous No.11974138]

>>11974103
Socialism is where the bossman is a democratic government

[gommie faggot !!ybZU7IbD8fv No.11974146]

>>11974069
The situation you're describing doesn't only apply to sole proprietorship. It applies just as well to the investor that puts all their money into an index fund.

>>11974103
>ebil gommies wrecked by ms pain comic
lol, it was workers who created the factory, the materials and who did the marketing. Even the the act of investment can be delegated. That private property is being used an a method of coordination is obvious, that's precisely what we're trying to change.

[Anonymous No.11974147]

>>11974069
People who fall for the commie/socialist meme are either poor and stupid or they are rich and have never actually had to do real work

[Anonymous No.11974155]

>>11974069
>>11974103

Communism is such a nightmare inducing system.

I mean at least with socialists I can understand. Socialists want to emulate the capitalist by having passive income, not having to work a shit job etc just get free gibs and no risk that comes with doing it under capitalism. They just want to be a welfare state and sit back and relax. At least I can understand that.

But Communism. Fuck. It's literally glorification of being a wage slave. No fucking welfare. No chance to work your way up to passive income and escaping the rat race. No you are just supposed to be happy because everyone else is equally as unhappy as you. It's a pure jealously based system. If I can't have it you can't either. It's fucking horrific. Just force everyone to be a lowly wagekek their whole life with no chance of escape, ever, so that everyone can be equal.

The equality meme needs to be stamped out of humanity. Fuck it.

[Anonymous No.11974156]

>>11974069
>Capitalism created poverty
It solved it lmao, middle class didn't even exist before.

[Anonymous No.11974169]

>>11974069
Because empathy is hard and communists don't have fully functional human brains.

[Anonymous No.11974176]

>>11974155

Communists/Socialists hate success. Hate the idea that some people are superior to others. Hate the idea of anyone being in charge (Socialists naturally want to dominate and control others, but in capitalist societies they are too weak/stupid to do so)

Really the only cure for these diseases is a quick lead injection. Remember communists aren't human. Getting rid of them is no worse than spraying for termites

[Anonymous No.11974177]

>>11974146
filtered

[Anonymous No.11974186]

Thoughts on this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHys1jc2Png

[gommie faggot !!ybZU7IbD8fv No.11974207]

>>11974155
This isn't about equality, this is about being able to live life as you choose, to have free time and some basic necessities met so you can be free to pursue other things.

Also, the reason everyone worked/there was full employment in the 20th century communist countries wasn't because of jealousy or some kind of similar pathology, it's because they needed full mobilization to industrialize. This is basically what the thinking was:

>Do you want our socialist fatherland to be beaten and to lose its independence? If you do not want this you must put an end to its backwardness in the shortest possible time and develop genuine Bolshevik tempo in building up its socialist system of economy. There is no other way. That is why Lenin said on the eve of the October Revolution: "Either perish, or overtake and outstrip the advanced capitalist countries.
>We are fifty or a hundred years behind the advanced countries. We must make good this distance in ten years. Either we do it, or we shall be crushed.
t. Stalin
http://academic.shu.edu/russianhistory/index.php/Stalin_on_Rapid_Industrialization

Even then, in the later USSR, people didn't show up to work all the time and still got paid as people started to give less fucks.

[gommie faggot !!ybZU7IbD8fv No.11974225]

>>11974156
A small middle class has always existed, in America it only really emerged as a massive force in society after intense labor agitating the post-war social democracy.

>>11974176
Hierarchies have always existed to some point or another. It's a banal point, and one that was made far before marx, that class hierarchies naturally create people with opposing interests.

[Anonymous No.11974245]

reminder all communist faggots get doxed alongside their friends from leftypol

[Anonymous No.11974259]

>>11974245
Is there even one previous instance of them being doxed on here?

[Anonymous No.11974310]

>>11974103
The thing is that the "bossman" is, as all humans are, a greedy fuck.
So he will take every opportunity to maximize his profits and make it worse and worse for the worker.
At some point the working class snaps and kills the "bossman" and his family and friends.
Then a new clique of "bossmans" appears who will promise to make everything better and the cycle continues.

[Anonymous No.11974373]

>>11974186

His reasons are personally based I think. He was never a wagecuck to begin with. He started out as a young capitalist and failed because had bad ideas and bad skills. He found it too hard to run a business and never achieved success with it, so now in his 30's he has to become a wagie for the first time and realizes how fucked he is. He doesn't want to go back to the stress of running a small business but at the same time realized that when he's doing freelance work all his employers are ripping him off like he used to do for others.

So now he's advocating communism.

[Anonymous No.11974384]

>>11974310
Brainlet post. You are not stuck under one "bossman" and you even have the ability to be your own "bossman" if you are not an incompetent retard. And if you are an incompetent retard, you literally need the bossman to survive and employ you or else you would starve to death.

[Anonymous No.11974415]

>>11974207
>this is about being able to live life as you choose, to have free time and some basic necessities met so you can be free to pursue other things.

I want to start my own company, employ others to help me create products, pay them a wage for it, completely own the IP of my product 100% and then rake in all the sales and become rich.

Can't do that in a commie shithole. You just work and then exist in a meaningless life, there is barely anything to even consume, anything you produce will be shit tier with shit materials.

[Anonymous No.11974424]

>>11974081
>If there is a minimum wage
There shouldn't be

[Anonymous No.11974431]

>>11974138
no

[gommie faggot !!ybZU7IbD8fv No.11974443]

>>11974384
That workers generally require a capitalist to survive is why it's called wage slavery. Even competent people might not be able to become capitalists, the world isn't a fair place, a lot of this is up to chance, as with all things. Certainly, on a systemic level, the economies of developed countries demand that most people work for a wage. Even the technically self employed are often just labeled so because they're "contracting" for a larger company.

I don't think it's an unreasonable thing to say people should have a democratic say in their workplace and be given a choice not to work.

[Anonymous No.11974444]

>>11974138
its cute that people think this actually works

[Anonymous No.11974463]

>>11974384
That's why it's "bossman" you idiot.
Over time wealth concentrates on a select few, that's what we call elite.
These few more or less steer society, but at some point they become decadent and incompetent at ruling.
They become too greedy and cross lines in making it worse and worse for the"masses".
Then at some point these masses revolt and kill the existing elite.
Repeat.

It's not a matter of who is at fault, it is simply a part of human nature.

[gommie faggot !!ybZU7IbD8fv No.11974469]

>>11974415
I find it humorous that you're implying that the capitalist is living the meaningful life, by being able to consume more objects.

[Anonymous No.11974486]

>>11974443
>be given a choice not to work.
Why is this exclusive to communism? If your basic needs are guaranteed under communism who provides them?

[Anonymous No.11974507]

>>11974463
count the top 100 richest in the world (excluding the rothschilds), and tell me how many inherited their billions.
https://www.forbes.com/billionaires/list/3/#version:static
ctrl + f "inheritance: 0 results found"

wealth is not nearly as static as you are saying

[Anonymous No.11974509]

>>11974469
Communism fails at admitting that social hierarchy is unavoidable.
Marx correctly concluded that every communist society with a centralized government will be corrupted.
But even in a decentralized society humans are not equal.
There will always be the more ambitious and more cunning who will rule over others.

[Anonymous No.11974513]

>>11974443

>democratic say in the workplace

Christ what a nightmare.


Your boss can tell you what to do because he purchased your labor. You don't get to fucking have a voice you little faggot.

Your boss offered to purchase you for $7.50 an hour or whatever and you took it, you are now bought and paid for. You are performing a service for your boss. He is paying you to do a thing he wants you to do. You are entitled to nothing more than what you agreed to be purchased for.

Some people demand a higher price for their work services than others because they have more skills and experience.

A company is in no way yours because your boss allows you to work there. He is fucking paying you. It's no different to you paying a fucking plumber to fix your fucking toilet piping. That plumber has no fucking say in your house, or where your toilet goes. You do. You paid him, you are the boss. How would you react if you went to a restaurant, paid for a meal, and after delivering the meal the waiter sat down at your table, grabbed a fork and started eating things from your plate saying he's entitled to it because he brought it to you?

[gommie faggot !!ybZU7IbD8fv No.11974520]

>>11974486
Well it's not technically exclusive to communism no, but it's certainly something capitalism has failed at for most of it's history.

In the most technical sense, workers provide them. Workers build the houses, harvest the wheat, ect. If you're talking about from a national accounting perspective, one way to do this is just to raise prices on luxury goods and funnel the surplus towards more basic things, which is what the USSR did.

[Anonymous No.11974536]

>>11974469

I missed a sentence there, typing slower than I was thinking.

Was meant to be this.

> You just work and then exist in a meaningless life, just consuming what is around you, and there is barely anything to even consume

[Anonymous No.11974537]

>>11974513
they're called employee owned companies and my local grocer is one.

[Anonymous No.11974543]

>>11974507
But that doesn't change the fact that wealth becomes more and more concentrated.
It doesn't matter if the person changes, the principle is still the same.
It's what you call the life cycle of a political system, you can observe it everywhere in history.

I have to leave so I wont be able to continue the discussion.

[gommie faggot !!ybZU7IbD8fv No.11974556]

>>11974509
He doesn't make any such conclusion, in fact he rarely made any predictions about what government would look like under communism, except that it would start with a broadly defined "dictatorship of the proletariat".

>>11974513
>Your boss can tell you what to do because he purchased your labor. You don't get to fucking have a voice you little faggot.
That is how it works now, yes. It used to be bosses could by your whole body, you know. And they could do almost anything they liked with it. we got rid of chattel slavery for a reason.

>A company is in no way yours because your boss allows you to work there
That's not what the argument is. Rather, we're trying to replace a system where this is the case, where it is no longer the case.

Also, I find it hilarious you're trying to make this sound like a ridiculous concept when, as >>11974537 pointed out, this is a pretty common thing anyway.

[Anonymous No.11974560]

>>11974537

Yeah well you have no right to force every company to be some loser co-op employee owned shithole. If the founder of the company doesn't want it to be one, you have no right to ask for a say in the company if you are lucky enough to have your time and labor purchased by him.

[Anonymous No.11974563]

>>11974520
>but it's certainly something capitalism has failed at for most of it's history.
Okay? It didn't pertain to do so

>Workers provide them
Without financial incentive under communism due to no currency how do you incentivise farmers etc. to do this bitch work?

[Anonymous No.11974571]

>>11974560
i'm hypercapitalist. you're just a faggot on a power trip.

[gommie faggot !!ybZU7IbD8fv No.11974586]

>>11974560
>be southern aristocrat 1864
>waaaa how can Lincoln give away all my slaves

>be cappy, 2025
>waaaaa how can the ebil gommies give away all my company

[gommie faggot !!ybZU7IbD8fv No.11974602]

>>11974563
Well certainly it'd be a goal to automate more of the process, but generally through in-kind incentives, getting access to certain luxuries, ect.

I'm less concerned about the abolition of money in general, however.

[Anonymous No.11974618]

>>11974424
Fuck you brainlet. Not even commie but really triggers me are edgy tards that say that exploitation of labour force is totally cool.

[Anonymous No.11974625]

>>11974618
Min. wage is exploitation of the labour force you cuck

[Anonymous No.11974628]

>>11974556
Employee owned business are not common at all. Maybe in fucking San Francisco they are, but not anywhere else in the world. It is wage slavery indeed. But you can quit your job and jump on welfare if you don't like it. Being a wagie cuck is a joke, but the goal is to become the boss of your own business. I've been a wagie before, worked some of the lowest shitest jobs. I know other wagies. They are some of the dumbest shits around. These people don't deserve the effort you put into thinking about them. I'd feel good about exploiting dumbass wagies. Some of them are horrific people that absolutely deserve their wage slavery. The smarter wagies will rise up and start their own businesses, while the dumb shits will either keep working or find a more tolerable form of wage slavery for them. Or if they are okay with being poor and can live within their means, they jump on welfare enjoy that minor freedom. Most of them don't know. Most wageslaves enjoy the meaning their bosses orders give to their lives. These people are fucking lost without structure in their lives and they are incapable of making that structure themselves. They need bosses and leaders to order them around and tell them what to do. I've seen it with my own eyes. My first job when I was a young kid was being a labor, I worked my fucking ass off doing back breaking work every day of the week, meanwhile the boss came in for like an hour, did some paper work, checked the construction plans and went back home, some days didn't even come in. I respected him more than any one of my fellow wagecuck workers, because having to be around fellow wagecucks you realize the depths of their patheticness and their inability to fucking do anything without the brains of the operation turning up for an hour a day to make sure shits works. That guy is the goal. I left that job soon after because continuing to wagecuck there was being a loser. The only way to win is being the boss. But most people deserve to lose.

[Anonymous No.11974640]

>>11974520
>>11974563
Christ okay I feel like there's a bit of confusion here on definitions, so:

COMMUNISM implies that work has become so productive (OR AUTOMATED) due to technological progression that there is a complete and utter abundance of products, such that currency loses its reason for existing and fades away- I'll repeat, Communists do NOT want to abolish currency, we want to provide the conditions where currency no longer needs to exist, which is going to be a long process.

So saying "workers provide it" is waaay too simplistic and gives the wrong impression.

[Anonymous No.11974645]

>>11974571

>power trip
>on an anonymous image board


Get fucked faggot.

>>11974586

>not moving your company overseas when any hint of commie revolution appears

[Anonymous No.11974681]

>>11974186
first ten seconds
>I thought owning a business was an easy way to get rich by working very little off the backs of wagies
next
>starting building my idea of that business at age 19
>at 22 (2001) i was having a tiny bit of success until the crash. Instead of cutting my employees when business collapsed, I took the risk on myself. I blamed the failures on my employees not being paid enough, although admittedly the business simply wasn't making enough money to justify that. If gee they'd just been paid more the business would have worked out, they all would have worked 80 hours a week alongside me [t. has never heard of a startup]
gonna stop watching here, but this guy is not an entrepreneur. he was the owner of a failed small business. he took all the wrong lessons from his failure. There are thousands of startups that had the same story as his, even with revenue sharing plans unlike he didn't. But they failed too.

>so now his plan is to become a commie and get rich by working very little off the backs of the proles

[Anonymous No.11974705]

>>11974640
>So saying "workers provide it" is waaay too simplistic and gives the wrong impression.
Commies always do this shit, being a communist itself is the wrong impression

>Communism is collective ownership of the means of production
>No no no the workers wouldn't have to operate the means of production it's more complicated than that
Good luck with providing for your autarky and the logistics of it without incentives and workers

[Anonymous No.11974707]

>>11974628
What about those employees is being loosers.. How can you live with such as attitude. 90 % of normies are retatds to u? Most people want a okay job. Normal working conditions. And peace after hours, not having to deal with countless phonecalls.
In your utopia everyone is the boss who works then?

[Anonymous No.11974719]

>>11974207
>Even then, in the later USSR
using a county that completely fell apart as an example of success. There is no helping these people because they are stupid.

[Anonymous No.11974774]

>>11974707

Can you retype in english. I missed half of what you said.

>90 % of normies are retatds to u?

They absolutely are. I was not born rich. I grew up lower class. I worked lower class shitty wagecuck jobs. I fucking hate poor people, and I was poor for my entire upbringing. They lower class deserves to be wageslaves their entire life. Hell half of them pride themselves on being a good little wagecuck to the boss. It's pathetic. These people have no brains in their heads. The few smart ones who pull themselves out of it all I respect though.

>In your utopia everyone is the boss who works then?

I gave up on Utopic ideas for society a long time ago.

My utopia is me as the boss and a lot of wagies working under me. There will always be a bottom. Someone has to fail. Stop worrying and caring that others will fail, just focus on your own success. The lower class is lower class for a reason, because 99% of them have no brains in their skulls. These people don't deserve success. I mean look at what goes on when these low class idiots win a lottery. The "lottery curse" is a real phenomenon because of how these retards are.

[Anonymous No.11974812]

Capitalism is a ponzi. Buy low sell high is not a smart. Its fraud simple as this. Same goes for lending money fortunately bitcoin will put an end to this practice and set us free.

[Anonymous No.11974823]

>>11974681
and the commenters do not understand capitalism at all. The idea is not "everyone is going to start a business and they'll all be successful". or even "he just didnt' work hard enough" That's a stupid ideal to arise to, and if they haven't noticed all the other alternatives have failed much harder.
The fact is the bulk of new businesses will fail, starting one is a risky endeavor, and that's why the risk bearer needs a compensating reward to attempt it. The low wages of the employee reflect the low risk nature of the position. they're not the one who wasted 3 years and $200,000 to end up with nothing.

Scarcity is derived from natural law, no changing of the distribution method will change that. Only so many crops grow in a season. There's only so much gold on the planet. There's only so much wattage the sun gives us each day. And every time someone reproduces, that's more mouths to feed. Communists only understand the "i need more", and not the "nature doesn't care" side.

[gommie faggot !!ybZU7IbD8fv No.11974857]

>>11974628
>everyone around me was a simple minded rube
lmao, a psychoanalyst would have a field day with this shit.

[gommie faggot !!ybZU7IbD8fv No.11974868]

>>11974719
I wasn't using it as an example of success, it was an example of the sentiments involved behind full employment measures. It's simply not the case that this was because of "unfairness". Even Lenin's famous axiom of "those who do not work, do not eat" was made not out of a concern for fairness, but material necessity.

[Anonymous No.11974875]

>>11974857

Tell me you job history, and how you grew up faggot.

I swear most commies have never truly been around working class and lower class faggots before in their lives.

[Anonymous No.11974896]

>>11974069
"Corporations don't need to lobby the government anymore, they are the government" - Tim Hightower

[Anonymous No.11974909]

>>11974146
Oh its this guy again. Get the fuck out with your slave morality. The rulers rule because they are superior, and they fail when they are inferior. Inheriting wealth is the first step of superiority. Convincing the masses to believe in your ideology is just a way to displace the rightful rulers of our era and replace them with spineless weaklings. And the greatest irony is- those spineless weaklings will do more damage to the masses than the rulers ever did. Read:
The Ego and its own, Stirner
Beyond Good and Evil, Nietzsche
Madness and Civilization, Foucault, Simulacra and Simulation, Baudrillard

And wake the fuck up. The bullshit you're spouting is massively out of date.

[Anonymous No.11974918]

>>11974103

How about a Direct Democracy of the people to eradicate capitalism. Cross-fertilization of different ideologies to create a brand new imagined power.

[Anonymous No.11974984]

>>11974918
"we could like you know, trade stuff without using money and vote on stuff and we'd all get along man"

[Anonymous No.11975017]

>>11974069
technology has democratized the capitalist process. even the lowliest McWorker has the ability to buy stock, invest, and build wealth. people are just generally shit with money and can't figure out how to live within their means.

[Anonymous No.11975039]

>>11974875
he won't answer that. he descends from conquered spics in texas and is a government diversity hire. he unironically needs to be curb stomped so that he drops his condescending bullshit

[Anonymous No.11975055]

>>11974918
>to create a brand new imagined power

communists love spewing absolute bullshit

[gommie faggot !!ybZU7IbD8fv No.11975082]

>>11974875
I'm a member of what I guess you might call the american bureaucratic class. Used to work in a large company's leg. affairs office. Growing up spent half the time with my mom who's a school teacher, half with my dad who was white collar. My mother's side of the family is pretty working class, but frankly that has little to do with my politics. I just wanted to get away from identity politics since I disdained the impact of culture and shallow tribalism on the individual, and that left lolberterianism and socialism. I respected public service too much for the former, so I started looking into socialism. Psychoanalyze to your hearts content.

>>11975039
I'm all for eliminating racial quotas and affirmative action m8, lol.

>>11974909
I've read Stirner, Nietzsche and Foucault. Out of them all, I only really felt Stirner was correct. Egoism is my personal ethics, in fact the only ethical content to my personal philosophy. Materialism/marxism is just an analytical framework to me.

I find it hilarious you like stirner but believe in "rightful" rule, lol.

[Anonymous No.11975184]

>>11975082
daddy got you a nice job in a cushy area insulated from real work. your dad got divorce raped, and you grew up with less fatherly influence, but he's a beta bux so its not like he was helping you man up anyway. normie politics has too many filthy wagies associated with it and you needed a way to stand out, because that's where you belong, up in the clouds in your cushy white office.

[Anonymous No.11975208]

>>11974705
Socialism is the collective ownership of the means of production. Communism is a magical post scarcity utopia where there is no state, no class, and no currency and people are free to do whatever makes them the most happy.

[Anonymous No.11975221]

Can someone explain why Communists and Socialists are so intent on changing thriving capitalist countries into communists or socialist countries? It really seems like if they are so great they would create a successful country under communism or socialism or head to any one of the thriving communist countries.

But every time it seems like they try to take a country that became wealthy without communism and distribute the wealth that capitalist society made. It always comes off to me as someone who is bad at being a manager claiming that it was the fault of the employees and keeps trying to take over another much more successful managers position to prove that it isn't his fault only to turn every group of employees he manages to shit.

[Anonymous No.11975247]

>>11975082

You sound fairly easy middle class to me. I doubt you'd find truly dumb wagie's working bureaucratic jobs. You find failed rich kids who's parents forced them to get a degree, and uncreative middle class cucks in those jobs.

My father was a tradesman, my mother a stay at home mum. They divorced when I was a kid, my mother had been on welfare ever since. Went to a shitty insular school. Father knew no one, had no contacts. Grew up on a small rural property on the outskirts of a literally nothing tier town in the middle of fuck off nowhere. First true job was as a laborer doing construction work, then military as grunt (not American), then I washed dishes for quite a while and also worked as a waiter and a bar attendant. I never went to uni or college. I am more low class/working class than you are. The fact you had time and ability to sit around reading and worrying about what old philosophers thought shows a level of class sophistication you have over me. Not only did I not get internet where I live until 2006, but anti intellectualism is absolutely rampant in the under class. Reading a book is something you get laughed at for and bullied and called a faggot nerd. You had to instead focus your brain power on how best to fucking kick a ball around a bunch of other dumb faggots.

You have never been low class or working class in your life before. You have never been around people who have. You have an idealized view of how the working class is. You have no idea how dumb and disgusting most people below you are.

[Anonymous No.11975255]

>>11974602
>getting access to certain luxuries
>communism

[gommie faggot !!ybZU7IbD8fv No.11975259]

>>11975184
My job was basically to get one day turn around summaries of congressional hearings, which I was quite good at. It was not in a field my dad would have any influence in. My father is someone I deeply respected growing up, hard working, extremely intelligent, firm when he needed to be but usually kind. He also certainly got the better end of the divorce since he remarried a much younger coworker that makes almost as much as him.

As for politics, my initial anti-idpol line was formed in part due to my disdain for tumblr feminism.

[gommie faggot !!ybZU7IbD8fv No.11975337]

>>11975247
The secretaries and payroll ppl, whose cubicles I was stationed near, were all lower class black women. They were all quite intelligent in their specific capacities, and quite kind people.

Regardless, I don't particularly care how vulgar the working class is. I don't really care about anti-intellectualism either. I don't believe ideas change the world, I think the material undercurrents and tendencies of a system are what force change.

The ideology of the ruling class has always been equality among equals, and that seems to be your ideology too. It'd explain why you were so resentful about being stuck around such "dumb wagies". You think you're qualitatively above them, you deserve more, that you're true status is with the capitalists. The most powerful jealousy isn't for what you simply don't have, but for what you think you deserve.

[Anonymous No.11975436]

>>11975337
You realize the reverse of that last paragraph is literally the motivation behind the large majority of communists right?

[gommie faggot !!ybZU7IbD8fv No.11975466]

>>11975436
I do, but the difference is that it's no longer about the equality among equals. Rather, it's about the freedom to live as you like. It is leveling only in the sense that only the ruling class previously had that freedom, whereas now everyone can have free time and surplus they were afforded.

Of course there remains spite for the ruling class. It's about time someone took em down a peg anyway.

[Anonymous No.11975491]

>>11975466
Everyone can't be free. It's a simple truth. You are an idealist but you have no connection with reality.

[gommie faggot !!ybZU7IbD8fv No.11975561]

>>11975491
I'm a materialist, anon. What I was describing right there was ideology, nothing more.

In terms of what may happen in reality, well, even if not everyone can have 100% free time, people can certainly have some more than we currently do. That'd be helpful for me and everyone who spends most of their time working atm.

[Anonymous No.11975636]

>>11975337
>were all lower class black women

Lower class women are generally much more bearable to be around than lower class men. Lower class males are 99% fucking scum. When you get upper class then the women turn into scummy ones.

>Jealousy

I'm not jealous at all, I think only commies are jealous of the rich. I just hate low class living, and hate being around plebs and shitheads all day. You think it's fun conversing with 80iq drug addicts who've never read a single book in their lives and can't hold a conversation about anything more complex than last nights game and the latest reality tv show. It's mind numbing being around these faggots.

>I don't particularly care how vulgar the working class is

That's because it's not real for you. It's only imagined. You've never experienced how loathsome these creatures can be.

>You think you're qualitatively above them

Because I am. People aren't equal. Some are absolutely better than others. Rising above my peers feels so fucking good.

[Anonymous No.11975670]

>>11975466
>Rather, it's about the freedom to live as you like.

Doing what though? Consuming. You made fun of me before for mentioning consumption. But what else can you do when you are a poorfaggot with free time and no money. You just consume shit. And with communism there wont even be that much to consume.

If you mean shit like wow find a wife and have kids, people do that right now under capitalism just fine. What fucking goals are so achievable that you need the free time and poverty combination of communism to achieve?

It's better to attain free time via wealth accumulation. Then you can truly create and stop consuming, and start producing with your free time. Create intricate artworks with proper resources, fund huge pet projects, engage in social manipulation for your political goals. The possibilities are endless. That is where the real fun begins.

Even if you want to do more simpler things like, go hiking on a nature walk. When you are a poverty stricken commie, you can nature walk the same park or nature strip every day for the rest of your life until you never want to see it again. You can never travel to far or you wont be able to return home in time. When you are rich you can go hike the entire fucking globe and just spend years stress and worry free fucking globetrotting and exploring the countryside of every nation you ever wanted too.

[gommie faggot !!ybZU7IbD8fv No.11975742]

>>11975636
My mom's boyfriend for quite some time was a white housing contractor. He was incredibly simple minded, but at least entertaining to talk to. When it comes to character, nothing goes lower than the sheer pretentiousness, arrogance and hubris of military officers and the children of capitalists. And I've known plenty of those types. Of course, these traits also exist in the bureaucratic class too, and at it's worst it's neoliberal fanboys who gush over hillary clinton and henry kissenger. I feel like I've met relatively fewer of them, but this may just be which circles I traverse.

>>11975670
People actually are not having a good time finding a wife and children under capitalism. Marriage rates, sex, romantic relationships, these have all been declining under neoliberalism.

I'm also talking about just hanging out with friends, which has also declined.

And with a couple more hours in the day, or maybe with an extra day on the weekend, I think people would start creating more. My dad and my uncle have both written novels while they worked. I've written a novel while I was in school and the time commitment, while very real, is plausible if you work. In fact, having work to discipline your time makes you much more effective at creative tasks than idle unemployment.

[Anonymous No.11975746]

>>11975561
In reality most people wouldn't work. There is no incentive for it versus doing what they enjoy which probably isn't productive. Even if you were to assume that everyone did what they enjoyed rather than what paid well how many dentists do you think we would have? How many surgeons? How many listless college kids who spend years and years trying out new classes never needing to actually work. Society doesn't function unless you force all those people to work and give back as much as they take but they can never get ahead of it. Capitalism isn't perfect but it can be rewarding. If not for you then for your children.

[Anonymous No.11975757]

>>11975742
I would also like to add you have a very clear chip on your shoulder and are very very out of touch with people. Go to a Wal-mart and start talking to people about various subjects. You really need a reality check.

[gommie faggot !!ybZU7IbD8fv No.11975806]

>>11975746
All I was referring to there was literally a reduction in the working week.

>>11975757
I'd urge you to read the context of that post, anon.

[Anonymous No.11975825]

>>11975742
kill this motherfucker now

[gommie faggot !!ybZU7IbD8fv No.11975842]

>>11975825
Give it a go, m8

[Anonymous No.11975844]

>>11975842
we did for 60 years
DO NOT WORK

[Anonymous No.11975848]

>>11975842

fellow /biz/ comrade here thanking you for fighting the good night and engaging the masses

[Anonymous No.11975875]

>>11975806
I'm aware of the context and what you meant. It is just clear to me you don't spend much time around your average person. You seem really sheltered and every interaction you have had with people has been shaped by some underlying problem in your psyche. You see what you want to see not what is there.

[Anonymous No.11975928]

communism = no reason to work

therefore it is the law you are assigned a job, if you say no, the camp and you are then fed to the pigs while alive

now good job positions, since that is the only thing there is, are bribe to get or born in the family to get

since we are all socialists we cannot support the "others" therefore kill them

in the end, you get to the point where you have to kill and eat your children

children are property and responsibility of the state

several generations only are what is need to totally destroy everything to the point where even causing severe genetic damage

[gommie faggot !!ybZU7IbD8fv No.11975934]

>>11975875
I'm just being transparent for the sake of the other anon, who began by expressing his personal frustration of commies disrespecting the status of capitalists. All the reactionaries love to say commies are only commies because of xyz psychology, but that's true of literally every position. Our values don't change, only our interpretation of the world. That's why I prefer to be transparent, instead of letting people come up with dumbass projections.

Normally, I prefer to just stick to empirical facts, and I'd love it if the conversation returned to that.

[gommie faggot !!ybZU7IbD8fv No.11975946]

>>11975875
You cannot read posts such as this, anon >>11975928
and tell me I'm the one with real issues around here, lol.

[Anonymous No.11975949]

>>11975757
>various subjects

t. hasn't left his bedroom in 3 years

[Anonymous No.11975957]

in capitalism I work because I get more
if I want/need just a little I work just a little
if I want more more I work more

you end up with more produced, and more of the genetics that produced it, since you have more in reserve, you are more resilient and will survive

you commie motherfuckers will be exterminated

[Anonymous No.11975975]

>>11975946
I can't tell you how impressed I am with how patient you have been in this thread. serious respect

[Anonymous No.11975985]

>>11975946
the great war, made the strong fearful, but they are dead, and the second generation is nearly dead too

the 3rd generation is consumed by stuff

and I the 4th will end you motherfucker

[Anonymous No.11975988]

>>11975975
Sycophant

[gommie faggot !!ybZU7IbD8fv No.11975994]

>>11975985
The current youth generations are even more skeptical of capitalism and positive about socialism than any generation previously.

[Anonymous No.11975998]

>>11975946
He's saying what will happen/has happened

Not what he wants to happen

[Anonymous No.11976020]

>>11975994
hey 55 year old
you are done
you have no legacy
you will be forever despised

and well, the worst part of hell is that you see all that there is in the heaven and on earth, and you cannot change a thing and you have no hope at all

[gommie faggot !!ybZU7IbD8fv No.11976026]

>>11975998
The reactionary fever dream of what will happen/has happened, completely disconnected from any remote reality.

What he wants to happen is just some pinochet strong man to come to power and shoot people he doesn't like so he can cry tears of patriotic love as the economy crashes.

[Anonymous No.11976029]

>>11975988
on an imageboard?

[Anonymous No.11976044]

>>11976026
>completely disconnected from any remote reality.
Cannibalism occurred in the Russian famine of 1921-1922

It took longer than most but you're disingenuous or ignorant like the rest of the commie scum

[gommie faggot !!ybZU7IbD8fv No.11976083]

>>11976044
The Russian famine in 1921-22 occurred during the NEP period, which had free markets and private ownership in agriculture.

His contention was that this the famines were the direct result of communism providing no incentive to work, which is absolutely bizarre given the massive industrial growth that happened during these famines. It's almost like the two were connected, like the USSR used expropriation of the peasants to fund it's massive industrialization.

[Anonymous No.11976221]

>>11974186
this guy seems to be completely defeated. he literally went about everything with a negative perspective, claiming he had some 'authoritarian power' over his employees while laughing his way to the bank. Of course his business was going to fail if that's the perspective he took. He then mentions how a co-op company would have "relieved his personal debt burden by distributing it among the other employees". He never connects that taking the risk and debt burden IS the value he adds to the company and society as a whole. Artists can't work without a studio, which he provided; also an employment contract is a win-win scenario where the employee gets security and stable income in return for reduced risk exposure. This guy is a fucking dweeb

[Anonymous No.11976250]

>>11975082
>Stirner was "correct"
"gommie" doesnt even know that Marx and Engels hated Stirner.
>rightful rule
Rightful rule by the self of the world
>gommie believes in egoism
You do know that egoism is inherently opposed to orthodox Marxism?
>thinks that Foucault is "correct" or "incorrect"
Literal brainlet. No one should bother listening to you. Every alt-right thought leader is about 80 years ahead of you ideologically. Literally South Park is more informed than you are. You are an embarrassment to actual academic and contemporary Marxists.

Also, historical materialism is a load of Horseshit. If you base your society on an economic structure, it does not automagically solve all problems.
>rightful rule
Faggot you aren't bothering to consider what you're reading. In the context of Stirner, Rightful rule is exerted by the self on the world. I am a member of the ruling class. You are a member of the slave class. The evidence is in both ideology and material condition. I will continue to perpetuate my power while you complain on 4cuck to people who have been brainwashed with ideologies several times more potent than yours and are reinforcing my personal power.

[gommie faggot !!ybZU7IbD8fv No.11976343]

>>11976250
>"gommie" doesnt even know that Marx and Engels hated Stirner.
I am quite aware, I think they mischaracterized a lot of what he said. Stirner, in many ways, forced Marx to become more materialist. Engels actually liked Stirner and even praised his book before Marx wrote the german ideology. Marx was just buttmad that stirner had outdone his materialism and wanted to make it look like the opposite.

Foucault tried to place the body as a place of resistance to power, and then later, when confronted about this, some vague notion of "plebs". It's very silly.

>If you base your society on an economic structure, it does not automagically solve all problems.
This is a complete non-sequitor, as all societies have an economic base.

>Rightful rule is exerted by the self on the world. I am a member of the ruling class. You are a member of the slave class. The evidence is in both ideology and material condition. I will continue to perpetuate my power while you complain on 4cuck to people who have been brainwashed with ideologies several times more potent than yours and are reinforcing my personal power.
This is some powerful autism alright. Your status as ruling class is only preserved by the state's power, not yours. It is the law that makes private property, only by your own strength can you make things truly yours. Your status is sustained only so long as the state sustains it. As stirner himself said, labor has such incredible power in its hands because of this. pic related

[Anonymous No.11976459]

>>11976343
>only by your own strength can something be truly yours
"truly" KEK. Something is truly mine when I am able to use it as I please. If I manipulate the State for my own benefit, so be it. Replace the State with the Church or the Corporation, what matters is the details of the system for my personal gain not any kind of moralfaggotry.
>Foucault as resistance
Foucault's failure was to view his philosophy as a means to resistance. It is a philosophy to be utilized as a means of control.
>all societies have an economic base
Just because all societies have sex does not mean that all problems are automagically solved by setting the right gender settings. Same for economics. Set up the economic structure in the perfect way, then get shocked when people discriminate against each other based on sex, race, gender, birth, participation in the revolution, or whatever. You are rejecting human nature do to your personal moralfaggotry.

But let's work through your Stirner quote, keeping in mind his Egoism.
>laborers have the most enormous power in their hands
Easy to accept.
>if they once became conscious of it and used it, nothing would withstand them
Key word here is "if." in reality, the members of the ruling class use their own labor to appropriate the labor of the slave class for the ruling classes benefit. The laborers are not awakened, they follow ideologies (like yours and many others) constructed and manipulated by the ruling class to promote the ruling class' power.
>They would only have to stop labor, regard the product of labor as theirs, and enjoy it
Again, true. In fact, only the ruling class does this as the slave class believes in morality (stealing is wrong). To be a ruler is to realize the power of theft, mediated by the State or not, and manipulate that power for one's own benefit.
>This is the sense of the labor disturbances which show themselves here and there
Ultimately a labot action that was coopted by Unions, Stirner did not see the future.

[Anonymous No.11976461]

>>11974069
>Why do communists/socialists assume that most businesses are sole proprietorships?

Because they've never worked in white collar jobs before or in any job at all. The vast majority of communists that post online are digruntled middle class NEETs that are still in college or unable to find work after college that's acceptable for them. This evidenced by them ironically looking down on "Third-World" communists and being pendantic in their explanations.

[Anonymous No.11976505]

>>11974310
This guy gets it.

[Anonymous No.11976506]

>>11976083
Funny you blame wars for the cause of famines when the economy was under the control of communists but you don't factor in wars for causing famines when the communists weren't in control.

[gommie faggot !!ybZU7IbD8fv No.11976521]

>>11976459
>Something is truly mine when I am able to use it as I please. If I manipulate the State for my own benefit
And there's your problem, your reliance on the state. it's a weakness the rest of us will exploit. It's not any kind of moral to point out you do not personally have the strength to defend what you claim is yours.

>Set up the economic structure in the perfect way, then get shocked when people discriminate against each other based on sex, race, gender, birth, participation in the revolution, or whatever
lol no wonder you love foucault this is the most neoliberal cock sucking kind of statement I've ever seen.
>people are working less and are having their needs met, but spics are still called mean words and live in their own neighborhoods so I can't say whether socialism was bad or good
fucking autism.

As far as labor is concerned, however, expropriation by the working class, while rare, is something that happens. It would be foolish to dismiss it completely.

>>11976461
lol

>>11976506
Where did I blame wars for anything?

[Anonymous No.11976567]

>>11975994
It's because of the "grass is greener" mentality. People born in peaceful times are the most easy to brainwash. They've never went through the same hardships that a lot of immigrants who emigrated from communist/fascist hellholes have experienced so they've a very low tolerance for hardship. This is one of the reasons why minorities are taking up a lot of manual labor jobs. Due to propaganda, these youngsters think that the unflattering history written about the communist regimes are all fake, so they just assume if their government becomes full communist, their countries would become utopias.

[Anonymous No.11976615]

>>11976521
>Where did I blame wars for anything?
You mentioned this a week or two ago and excused the Soviet gov't appropriating food from farmers because the gov't needed to feed their war machine.

[Anonymous No.11976629]

>>11976521
>a weakness the rest of us will exploit
You and your army of laborers? KEK, good luck gommie faggot. Just see how well your middle class education has prepared you to communicate with the lower class by your communications here. They aren't just indoctrinated. The State+Market is specifically designed to set up a system of punishments and rewards to incentivize them to continue producing for others. They also have a greater awareness of Marx than Marx does of himself. All ideological movements rely on getting others to do the work and make the sacrifices. To the slave's mind, if the system is providing for them (sex, food, housing) then why revolt? You're proposing that the slaves switch allegiance without providing any real butter, just a lot of hard work. And guess who'd get to be in charge? Why of course the people that understand Marxism the best! And what a coincidence that that happens to be you. KEK

>spics are called mean words
See, you're completely disconnected from the wage class. I know people personally who have been called racial slurs and racially stereotyped, and it really pisses them off. Ultimately you are proposing to wagies that all that matters is economics, when that isn't what they prioritize at all. 40hr/week, a nice house, and a car is all wagie wants economically. Vacations and luxury goods come on top. Good luck displacing me and my pals as rulers with your pitch! I'll be telling them what they want to hear, and even helping them fix their concerns - as long as it serves my will.

[gommie faggot !!ybZU7IbD8fv No.11976658]

>>11976615
Yeah, that's correct, but this was related to industrialization more generally, which was my point here.

I haven't really talked about a lot of other famines, but yes, that has happened as well. In ww2 the brits starved several million indians to death by diverting food away from them to soldiers.

[gommie faggot !!ybZU7IbD8fv No.11976714]

>>11976629
I'm not leading anyone, the whole point is that circumstances will force a confrontation despite the state's best efforts.

The whole issue is that capitalism is beginning to fail to get the goods in several key ways. You mention sex food and housing. Well, I don't know if you know but there was a headline recently about a "sex recession." people are having less sex, relationships and friendships as they are becoming increasingly atomized. Housing is also a big issue. In a crisis, it becomes all the more acute as millions are forced into foreclosure. The food issue is one of the more cleverly solved things as the state always subsidizes agriculture so there's always surplus grain.

[Anonymous No.11976774]

>>11974225
> banal

[Anonymous No.11976796]

>>11976714
>0,17% homeless in USA
>hunger is so low that "food insecurity" is measured instead
>majority have sex before 17
Remember, the Media is a major part of State control. Minor changes in sex, hunger, and homelessness immediately create huge output of articles and action by agencies both private and public. This is your threat.

The funniest part is, it benefits me for you Gommie to work in the government. Your concerns mean your public policy helps to alleviate the systemic problems that exist. But you are so small and insignificant I couldn't give 2 fucks whether you continue to self sacrifice or not.

So the System subsidizes food, sex, and housing - then when technological changes cause these rates to fall, immediately panics and begins pushing reform. So when does your army of laborers enter the picture? Your best chance is in one of the 3rd world countries exploited by the West... but as soon as you try, you'll get a drone strike up your ass. Good luck buddy, seriously.

[Anonymous No.11976847]

>>11976714
>Im not leading anyone
You have a subconscious that has drives. Your conscious mind's job is to narratize your subconscious so that you can maintain social relations while simultaneously acting in your own benefit. Your case is pathological though. You've set yourself up in a situation where you have to take increasingly radical stances to satisfy your subconscious, because it's not intelligent enough to realize that your conscious has picked an impossible route to achieving personal power. Of course it's not your fault you are pathological. It's important for the State to focus on ameliorating the damaging aspects (towards food,sex,hunger) of capitalism to prevent the conflict you mention.

[Anonymous No.11977887]

>>11974138
Sorry I'm too retarded
>>11974444
to read what you said so I'll just keep memeing and jerking it to the gods that enslave my mind

[Anonymous No.11977948]

Politics used to be something practical with very little ideology in it before the french revolution, what dominated the mind of people in terms of beliefs was not politics, it was religion. Only since this era systems of governance became ideologies, before that society organized organically and what was important was living in accordance to christian teachings, not optimizing society based on material imperatives.
Since religion is in decline some people are compensating by adopting zealous/fanatical beliefs in politics, that's why leftists have such a cult like/emotional behaviour and deep ego investment.

The only thing you have to understand in our era about politics is that the average modern leftist is someone with low self esteem who internalized powerlessness and victimhood as an identity while leftist leader are narcissistic sociopaths thinking they are entitled to the ressources and respect of others. It's basically a mix of mentally ill people mixed with predatory personalities.

Take care of yourself and of your family, do what's in their best interests and yours, try to be better, that's the only sane and natural way of living your life, don't fall for ideological orthodoxy.

[Anonymous No.11979164]

>>11976796
And what has been happening everywhere else? The citizens of Rome got free grain, but it came at the expense of the enslaved people across its territories. The cracks in the metropole are more subtle, but unmistakable. Most the media doesn't even pick up on.