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/biz/ - Business & Finance

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11912300 No.11912300 [Reply] [Original]

politics aside. has he legitimately been good for the economy

>> No.11912332

we don't discuss about economy here anon

>> No.11912340

Short-term yes, long-term no. Tax cuts boosted stocks but companies did mostly nothing to reinvest their savings. His war on imports will have a net neutral effect on the US economy. Many will get hurt, but many will benefit. In the long-term, the growing deficit and unsustainable growth in equities will cause pain that the next president will probably be blamed for.

>> No.11912343

He hasn’t fucked up the good economy, you mean. Although he’s certainly trying what with the tariffs and trade wars.

>> No.11912351

No one believes this but the job market was already smoldering warm in Obama's last two years. More debt in tax cuts that Trump enacted threw gasoline on said smouldering fire. Make of that what you will. I don't like either of them personally, let alone the last 6 presidents

>> No.11912378

The biggest boost was that suddenly Republicans had their guy in the White House and started feeling much more positive about the economy. If Hillary was president and the numbers were exactly the same, I guarantee you that the consensus would be that the economy was still doing mediocre, since Trumpers and Berniebros would all be disgusted.

>> No.11912381

the economy is a fucking jenga set that people have been pulling blocks out of for the last fifty years, if it doesn't collapse under his watch it probably will on the next person in the white house

>> No.11912397

His tariffs on aluminum and steel have increased the cost of consumer goods. Compare the cost of laundry equipment now vs what it was a year ago. Washing machines are 20-25% more expensive across the board.

>> No.11912403

it takes zero imagination to boost the economy for 3-4 years. Drastic state spending (lefties) or drastic tax reduction (righties) will have a similar boost in short term growth but ultimately damages the countries economy in the long term. If you don't understand that read a fucking book.

>> No.11912417

Talking purely economics so don't muh debt muh demographics me: tax cuts good, tariffs bad, immigration restrictions bad, scuppering trade bad.

Government in general doesn't have as much power over the economy as they like to pretend so he doesn't deserve the blame when everything goes tits up in the next few years, though I doubt he'll respond well.

>> No.11912430

I definitely agree. He was always the better choice against Hilary. Bernie would have been a better contender because he doesn't have the personality of a moldy sponge. But the ((powers)) kicked him out.

The economy is pretty dam strong now, but Obama and Yellen let the monetary policy make everyone complacent when it wasn't sustainable. Unfortunately Trump is in power when it's snapping back to reality

>> No.11912491

Yep. I'm a dumbass who lost my job due to a felony conviction for drug use, but just moved in with my uncle who cashed out his 401(k) at an absolute all-time high.

And bullshit about it having done well under Obama. The economy sucked and damn sure wasn't growing. Trump has made that shit run gangbusters style.

I did well because I was the sole manager for 4 Subway restaurants and Obama made them all accept EBT (food stamps) and then gave millions of people free EBT. Who the hell wouldn't sign up to get a free Subway card from the gummint, with free $100+ refills every month? I was rolling in it until I had a car accident and like Oxy just a little too much afterward.

>> No.11912534

What an idiot. Bernie, a socialist Jew who wanted to massively increase government power, was ousted by the socialist Jews who want to increase government power because ((they)) control government.

Trump was the only right choice. Your own fucking ignorance, racism, and poor economic sense clash badly in your anti-Jew conspiracy theory land.

>> No.11912554

market's been taking a shit ever since the dems were projected to win the house.
trump was the catalyst for the growth we've seen and the communist leftists are the reason it's falling and will continue to fall.

>> No.11912555

His tax cuts allowed every company to raise wages and also do buybacks, benefiting the shareholder and the worker
Golden Age America

>> No.11912596

It's literally better than ever. Heil Trump!

>> No.11912597

except they didn’t raise wages lol

>> No.11912610

I'm trying to remain objective of politics and talk more about policy. I'm saying that most votes vote mainly based on a candidate's charisma/personality, and Trump blew out everyone running. Bernie had the only personality on the Democratic side worth writing home about.

Presidents don't have a whole lot of say in the central bank/treasury but they usually get blamed either way, when it's a huge fucking mess decades in the making

>> No.11912643
File: 78 KB, 947x564, greateconomy.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

yep going great

>> No.11912645

Fuck trump he refused to embrace crypto and fucked us all over

>> No.11912659


>> No.11912686

A convenient puppet. Federal reserve is still here.

>> No.11912688

What are you on about, wages are up despite the federal reserve raising inflation rates 11 times trying to fuck trump. They raised them 3 times for Obama's whole 8 years.

>> No.11912726

He was really good in self marketing. Imagine you have a game named after you 'Trump Game' or even a steak named after you 'The Trump Steak'. This is how he everytime could get investors, when something went wrong. But this shows he was really good.
Besides all what happened, just look what he has achieved. And I am not talking about how this or that maybe or maybe not have happened. He has a fucking own tower in NYC with his letters on it. He has a fucking big villa. He was fucking well known in NYC. He had is own tv show. And most important he fucking has his fucking own Boing 707. And when he was not President he landed with this big Boing 707 like a rockstar with his fucking bit letters written on it. And now? He is president. He really knows managing people. This is what you have to do. You have to motivate people, see if they are good in what they are doing and where they are good and give them the right job. In my opinion he is doing brilliant. What can a human achieve more then him in economic terms? Really? So I think the answer to the question is crystal clear.

>> No.11912746

Trump knew coming in the stock market and real estate was all in a bubble... he said this while campaigning. The economy for everyday people is shit.

The fed is the one in control of the economy and they bend it to their benefit I dont really know how to blame trump for economic problems other than wall street gained confidence with him winning in 2016

People complaining itt about tax cuts are dipshits though...

>> No.11912788

Oh yes and the conclusion: We don't have any real clue what's going on in the world. There is so big misinformation from all kind of media and politics. For me a logic economic thinking person is way better then any kind of socialist or whatever. Because economic people want the best for people. Only people with good health and good a good motivated life can achieve the best. Learn the kid how to feed himself. Don't give him everyday a potato.

>> No.11912924

> He really knows managing people. This is what you have to do. You have to motivate people, see if they are good in what they are doing and where they are good and give them the right job.

What reality are you living in? He backstabs/fires/buses nearly every major staff member in the white house. fucking hell

>> No.11913094

>cut taxes
>increase spending
>deficit going up
>trade war
the irony is that the economy will probably crash after he leaves and the next guy will get blamed

>> No.11913111 [DELETED] 
File: 6 KB, 700x965, 1497561517398.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>fixing a 20 trillion dollar debt by raising taxes
>raising taxes in a country with already high taxes
>not knowing the Laffer's curve
tippity toppity kekkity, but raising spending is a dumb idea obviously

>> No.11913112

equities are definitely a problem. I contend with the deficit point though.I used to be a "holy fuck we're fucked we are 6 gorillion dollars in debt" - but then I started reading about MMT - modern monetary theory. At first it seemed like some communistic magick. It may be still; but the basic concept which I agree with is that public debt is inconsequential (for us, not the rest of the world) and if you think about logically in real terms - what the fuck is the difference between 1 billion 1 trillion or 6 gorillion of public debt? Apparently nothing because if 1B isn't an issue and 1T wasn't an issue then what the fuck 1Q won't be an issue.

The main problem we have, which MMT agrees with, is private debt. Private debt is what can wreck us.

>> No.11913141
File: 956 KB, 1003x1024, 212212.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>fixing 20 trillion dollar debt by increasing spending AND cutting taxes
>debt is more than 22 trillion already
>its gonna be 25 trillion by the time he leaves
yep, nothing to see here goys

>> No.11913156

Restricting skilled immigration and enacting tariffs will do a lot of damage eventually.

>> No.11913201

And tariffs are completely useless against chinks, its not like they are a democracy and people getting rekt will change their mind. They can simply wait for him to leave office and the next guy to remove tariffs and they are done

>> No.11913206

Public debt isn't bad. If anything, it's good, because it gives foreign countries (who buy US debt) vested interest in our survival. It's one of the reasons our trade war with China doesn't feel like that big of a war. Each side understands they need each other and is just tugging back and forth. You can thank debt for that.

What is intolerable, however, is debt outpacing GDP growth. If the rate of debt growth continues to outpace the GDP growth rate (as it currently does), that will inevitably lead to catastrophe. However, I believe managing that rate is easier than most people would think. It could probably even slightly outpace GDP growth.

>> No.11913211

this x10000000000000000

>> No.11913221 [DELETED] 

once again you literally can't raise taxes enough to fix it

>> No.11913232
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you dumbass, you don't raise taxes to fix debt, you raise taxes to fix the DEFICIT

>> No.11913242

unironically based, all of it.

>> No.11913266

pro-immigration statist-cucks gtfo my 4channel.

>> No.11913300

>Drug-addicted retard who never amounted to anything more than a manager at Subway gives his economic hottake


>> No.11913321

There is literally nothing wrong with skilled immigration.

>> No.11913347

you realize that to restrict immigration you need a guberment to restrict it right? pro-immigration is anti-statist

>> No.11913390

>a country with high taxes

that's very subjective mate

>> No.11913395


he's the greatest US president of all time because he took the US out of the TPP, the fact this isn't brought up as the first thing shows none of you understand the economy or international politics

fun fact: the only reason that the media hates trump as much as they do is because the corporate overlords that own them want TPP to be pushed through to make even more money, that's why they want to get rid of him so badly, they want to be in the TPP

>> No.11913415
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>free trade : bad !

>> No.11913421

>free trade is bad!
>I know about economics guiss truss me! xD
into the trash

>> No.11913462
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If 'ifs and buts were soup and nuts, the world would never go hungry'

>> No.11913474

Tell me about TTP and why its bad? Genuine question.

>> No.11913484

senor...i's skillt with dis rake and blower...si senor! lemme in!

>> No.11913505

Cletus might lose his job because a Vietnamese farmer will produce more and cheaper than him, and Cletus is too dumb to learn how to do a new job, digging holes is all he knows

>> No.11913517

more debt just means more inflation long term
the rich gets richer and the poor has to be put on life support to sustain an eternal underclass just like the good old days
those in control are just debating whether we should keep the useless meatbags as slaves or some club of rome type shit happens where we get ww3 and we lower our pops to less than a bil. obviously chinks, poos, and high pop nations dont like this so we're progressing in some agreed middle road for now

>> No.11913541

Well Cletus in this scenario is the most vulnerable person in American society. Why would you want the most vulnerable in society to be shit out of luck?

Intelligence is largely genetic but environment does influence it, as our modern world becomes more and more intelligence driven it would extremely callous to right off people for something they are not responsible for wouldn't it?

>> No.11913555

>more debt just means more inflation long term


Inflation can be managed by interest rates and other means. More debt doesn't mean more inflation anyway. You're confusing debt with QE. If anything, issuing new debt decreases the money supply (Treasury exchanges bonds for cash).

>> No.11913569

How about the consumers that will be forced to buy more expensive products just to save Cletus job? what if they are vulnerable too?

How about Cletus learns how to do a new job?

>> No.11913570

Lot of commie faggots in here for a board about business.

>> No.11913586

That's the paid BSV shills. They are stupid outside of script.

>> No.11913591
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True dat.

>> No.11913604

The entire point YOU made was he is too stupid to learn a new job.

At what point does dumb people become a justifiable sacrificial lamb for consumers to buy cheap shit? A cheaper I-phone, a cheaper starbucks coffee, a cheaper car? Where do you draw the line on a human life for your benefit?

What are we going to do with dumb people? Just let them die, implement eugenics, leave them to rot? A country should take care of the most vulnerable in their own society before trying to fix the world.

>> No.11913615

All this shit is gonna blow up on Trump's watch. He's gonna take the blame.

>> No.11913617
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What an amazingly articulated and learned opinion on economics, I especially liked the final sentence that chose to ignore decades of economic theory in favour of Ayn Randian “just teach people to be better” regurgitated pap.

>> No.11913637

teach them to do a new job that is actually useful in modern society. If they are too dumb for that they can go flip some burgers, except Cletus is too proud for that

>> No.11913680

Your entire point was he isn't smart enough to do something else now he is too proud? This is either thinly veiled white hate or shifting the goalposts.

>> No.11913690
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People were all mad about this guy.
But he got rid of the laws slowing killing internet service in the US.
You can check the archives of /pol/ back when the title II net neutrality was enacted in 2015, and the general consensus was that it was a jewing deceptively named act.

>> No.11913700

He is too dumb to learn a high end job and too proud to do a burger flipping job. How hard is this to understand?

>> No.11913752

cletus's well-being is not what makes the ending of tpp beneficial
think harder, pseuds

>> No.11913757

I doubt you have proof of your second claim are no low IQ whites working in McDs? Is the entire workforce of McD's non-white?

>> No.11913786

I am talking about the farmers, farmers literally live on government subsidies, the only reason their job exists is because they get welfare from the state and because government puts tariffs on foreign products to protect them, thus fucking millions of consumers just so few thousand dummies can keep their farming job

>> No.11913800

> politics aside
He's the president you dumb cunt

>> No.11913871

So once again not being smart should condemn you? Farming is subsidized across the world because moving from a agrarian society to the one we are now is what allowed us to specialize thus literally creating the modern world was not possible without farming.

Giving a foreign nation control over your food supply is the dumbest thing you could possibly do. It is literally giving them the ability to starve you or extort extremely high prices out of you. You also have no quality control on how the food is processed there.

Why would you want this? What benefit does this offer except for marginally cheaper food?

>> No.11913956

yeah, when you can't make any economic arguments just invent an imaginary scenario of war and conflict to instill fear mongering

>> No.11913979

>imaginary scenario of war and conflict
have you opened a history book before?

>> No.11913982 [DELETED] 

you can't raise taxes to fix this deficit, taxes are already high. You do realize you don't get more tax revenue if you make taxes really high right? Of course not, you're just some retard on an anonymous forum. You don't know jack shit.

>> No.11913985

>Says the guy who invented a imaginary person who is too proud to work in McDonalds.

Are you denying this gives another country power over yours?

>> No.11914012

You dummies know how international trade works? Are you saying Canada will stop giving you steel on purpose to make you weaker? or Europe stop trading food with you to make you starve? If they actually do that you can just declare war on them

>> No.11914025
File: 90 KB, 878x827, 1542833011310.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

so are you saying taxes are coincidentally at the exact spot of maximum return and its impossible to get it any higher? ofcourse not, you are just a retard that saw a meme chart on wikipedia and now thinks he knows how taxes work

>> No.11914033

I'm not talking about Pablo the leaf blower as a skilled worker.

I'm talking about foreign doctors, engineers, STEM PhD holders and such. Restricting these people from immigrating to your country absolutely does harm long term.

>> No.11914047

>that the next president will probably be blamed for.
Which will be a democrat getting the brunt of the short term cash grabbing again

>> No.11914057

>Just make war if people do something you don't like

Jesus man.

>> No.11914085

not every country is the strongest military power on the planet by a massive margin

>> No.11914094

read the previous posts dumbass, his argument was that they can intentionally stop trading food with you to make you starve, which would happen only in period of war

>> No.11914099
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>> No.11914129

No that wasn't his argument you retard his argument was giving another country power over yours. Water and agricultural land is becoming more and more rare.

>Country experiences drought
>Shit man we starve.

You are butt fuck retarded.

>> No.11914156


>> No.11914166

hurr what about importing food from another country then? if only there were multiple countries in the globe!!

imagine being this retarded

>> No.11914170

Ford should’ve stayed american

>> No.11914184

Problem is what you think as 'skilled' is NOT the same as what the people making that decision is.
Plus, when you go to see a doctor for a hacking cough and chest congestion and he walks in with no socks, just sandals, smells like curry six feet ahead of him and has a big red blotch on his forehead and says to you 'please to see lungs of yours now, kind sir' I want you to break down in tears and hug him and say 'God Bless You for coming here!!!'

>> No.11914191 [DELETED] 
File: 621 KB, 720x960, puppe.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>honey I just bought 200 lambos and now we're 200 million dollars in debt!
>oh not a problem honey I think if you get a raise we'll be fine!
this is you

>> No.11914204

Imagine the cost then? Over 300 million people suddenly need more food another country with no obligation to trade with you needs to give you food or you are going to send hungry soldiers to kill them to give you food?

>> No.11914214
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>honey I want to buy 1 trillion worth of military!
>but I also want to lower all our income from taxes so we can never be able to afford to pay it!

this is you

>> No.11914243

again, your only arguments are fear mongering of imaginary scenarios. Yes a huge drought can come and destroy all the worlds food supplies and a meteor fall from sky and destroy all the steel supply, you still don't have any economic argument

also, why don't put tariffs on electronics and high tech too? what if the enemy buys your tech and uses it against you? rly makes u think huh..

>> No.11914248 [DELETED] 
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you're not getting it, the 1 trillion millitary and 1 trillion of various redistribution needs to go. The upcoming 120 trillion redistribution needs to go. You are an absolute brainlet if you think taxes are the problem, go paint your colon with bleach so you hopefully don't reproduce and have kids that vote for the same stupid shit you vote for

>> No.11914254

Literally the only thing thrbgivernmrnt should be providing - protection against foreign niggers

>> No.11914267

Go fag elsewhere eurojew

>> No.11914270

I didn't see you complaining about the increase in spending. The fact remains that he lowered the taxes but didn't reduce spending, which is arguably far worse than if he didn't reduce taxes

>> No.11914276

Yes it is nigger - we have laws protecting workers 90% of the world doesn’t unelss you want to die from blood loss in a sweatshop be protectionist

>> No.11914289

The thing is, the numbers never would have been the same under Hillary. She would have hit the ground running and started a campaign of anti-business legislature, higher taxes, and all kinds of other bullshit that would have hurt the economy in ways that would make your head explode. Obama did damage, but he didn't go as far as he could have.

Look at France. The riots are over gas taxes, but they're not telling you the whole truth - the taxes are carbon taxes, and an effort to force the country into "green" technology and such that they're not prepared for.

That would be Hillary, on a lesser scale.

Democrats are anti-business. Trump is 100% pro-business, which is why the stock market went off like a rocket when he was elected.

It's a bit early to say if he's been good or bad, because believe it or not, a lot of his programs and agenda are long term. They'll take a while to show the benefits.

I know in my world, business is booming across the board, companies are hiring, and expanding. They were contracting at the end of Obama's last term, because they were fearful of a Hillary presidency. I know 3 companies who purposefully put off hiring at any level until after the election, to see which way the wind was gonna blow.

>> No.11914293

No you are once again shifting the goal posts. Agriculture is under huge strain the world over. Giving another country the responsibility to create your food gives them power over you whether you like it or not.

>also, why don't put tariffs on electronics and high tech too? what if the enemy buys your tech and uses it against you? rly makes u think huh..

Literally the first tariffs imposed was because of Chinese governent putting pressure on companies to share trade secrets to get access to the Chinese markets, them not respecting international IP laws and blatantly stealing high tech IP.

It seems you are extremely misinformed.

>> No.11914328

Doesn’t matter as long as the money stays in the country YOU FUCKING DUMB SCROTUM LICKING TRAITOR

>> No.11914344

Who’s paying for that u cheap fucking jewnigger!?

>> No.11914354

>Giving another country the responsibility to create your food gives them power over you whether you like it or not.

your whole assumption is based on that the whole agriculture of USA will disappear if they had no subsidies. Are you saying you are that incompetent and bad at agriculture that you can't produce food? also, the majority of food produced is not even eaten. You are literally wasting money and increase prices for all consumers to keep a bunch of useless farmers employed

the same guy who pays for their subsidies now

>> No.11914361

What happens when Vietnam stops sending us food and we need Cletus again?

Short sighted stupid over educated under intelligent economic major mother fuckers - you are all worse than Jews! Die!

>> No.11914373

then buy from another country?

>> No.11914378

I hope Cletus blows your brains out with his shotgun - he has a lot

>> No.11914397


you dumb mothernfuckers don’t even know chinks are buying up our farmland to feed their starving pop and we are giving it up - dust bowl soon

>> No.11914399

nailed it, though i think the tariffs will be a net negative. globalization is pretty tight when it comes to things like steel where producing it in china using 2010s technology is so much cheaper than producing it in the USA with 1930s technology.

>> No.11914401

You have to at least acknowledge he really didn't need neither 2 scoops nor larger salt/pepper shakers. Cmon...give us that one.

>> No.11914412

Wow you are a fucking RETARD!

>> No.11914443

And we’d be without the ability to produce our own food

You’re a fucking moron

>> No.11914450

How does the money stay in the country if you get your food from "a Vietnamese farmer"

I am not a farmer. You kept bringing up Cletus is to dumb to do anything else so fuck him lets export his work. Farmers are extremely important not just because of the food they produce. The only thing you have is ad hominem attacks and your solution is literally "lol just wage war if countries don't comply"

>> No.11914453

Imagine, if you can, being actually this retarded. Amazing, just breathtaking levels of stupidity.

>> No.11914459

Ask yourself with we still have 1930s tech and then kill those responsible
For holding us back and filling us with third world niggers

>> No.11914478

It’s doesnt that is why we need farmers asshole

FYI Oklahoma farmland is owned almost entirely
By the chinks already you stupid mother fuckers!!!!

>> No.11914483
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>unemployment 2.8%(lowest in recorded human history)
>300,000 jobs created every month
>university grads making 80-100k starting + stock options
>average journeyman tradesman making $65/hr and so much demand they have to turn down work
>companies competing for workers raising wages everywhere
>even unskilled labourers are making $25/hr now

>> No.11914485

your whole argument is based on a fault premise, that if agriculture in USA had no subsidies they would all disappear and have 0 food, which is wrong.

>can't make any argument
into the trash brainlet

>> No.11914519

not even this clown can show the left that they have gone too far with their idealism, trump is only in power because the left is insane

>> No.11914532

Neither of you understand what subsidies are, and what they're used for. Most of the subsidy money in the last decade was for corn, and not for food, it was for ethanol, because it was needed to blend into gasoline, as mandated.

And, we're not the only country that does it, the EU does, as does other industrialized countries.

Honestly, I can't take anyone who calls farmers "useless" seriously.

>> No.11914554

didn't say farmers are useless, those that depend on subsidies are

>> No.11914559

I have literally been against outsourcing farming from the USA to other countries from the start are you brain dead?

>that if agriculture in USA had no subsidies they would all disappear and have 0 food, which is wrong.

This is straw manning. I never said this nor even implied this. Your orignal post was "Cletus is too dumb to do anything but farming", then you started saying "fuck the dumb they deserve to be poor because I want cheap shit", then you said "if countries don't create our cheap food we simply wage war"

Thank you Anon you taught me something.

>Most of the subsidy money in the last decade was for corn, and not for food, it was for ethanol, because it was needed to blend into gasoline, as mandated.

>> No.11914576
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>opioid addicted loser who's largest accomplishment in life was running subway restaurants for niggers surprisingly is too fucking retarded with his sub 90 IQ to recognize objective evidence that proves the kike JQ
astonishing really

>> No.11914589


We agree

>> No.11914588

>fuck the dumb they deserve to be poor because I want cheap shit

so I am guessing you are willing to give more of your income (thus being able to afford less shit) to help poor minorities too, right bucko? or are you only concerned about white poor people? :^)

>> No.11914591

no, the trade war has having a negative effect on the market. maybe in 2-4 more years when the trade war is worked in america's favour he'll be 'good' for the economy. but than again, that's sacrificing a lot of years of growth that may never be recovered.

in the short term his tax cut stimulus worked in a short period, but now that we're in a correction period and no more stimulus in sight we might be kind of fucked.

overall, i'd say he hasn't done terribly well so far, things may change in 2-4 years though if the tradewar goes the way he wants it to go things can get better.

>> No.11914598
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just waiting on the next economic crisis. I know its a cliche at this point but its going to be fun seeing the blame get thrown around. Hopefully we get to kill rich people this time around

>> No.11914604

He has been good for corporations/ shareholders. That being said, that’s obviously not necessarily the same as being good for the overall economy.

>> No.11914611

You are the only one bringing up race and overwhelmingly in the form of white hatred.

>> No.11914616

he's fudged the econmommy, he helped spur the next great depression

>> No.11914619

>yeah, when you can't make any economic arguments just invent an imaginary scenario of war and conflict to instill fear mongering
lel, Euros argued before WW1 that no major war could possibly happen because of economic integration. oops!

There is far more continuity between hippies and market liberals than is immediately apparent.

>> No.11914628

And this. It’s very easy to boost growth for a short period of time.

>> No.11914639
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>you are racyist to whyte peple if you don't want them to have welfare!!
found the seething snowflake

>> No.11914648

Yes fuck niggers they produce absolutely NOTHING

>> No.11914656

>economic integration
nice joke bud

>> No.11914664

I am ready

>> No.11914668

Trump's trade and fiscal policies are a unique combination of problems for businesses.

The higher costs from the tariffs, the tighter labor market from the tax cuts both put downward pressure on profits. The immediate effect of the tax cuts on profits will wear off, and the short term boost only served to temporarily inflate the stock market and other asset classes as capitalists tried to invest their newfound savings and companies bought back stocks/issued higher dividends.

This profitability issue, and the issue of overacumulation, together make things that much more unstable. One the one hand, lower profits means greater default risk. On the other, overacumulation means that capital is seeking out riskier investments to keep returns up.

The tax cuts also worked to stimulate demand, but this higher consumption was not correlated with higher real incomes, so we're also seeing an increase in consumer debt which may yet prove explosive.

In short, he's exchanged a short term buz for longer term risks.

>> No.11914678

Whites produce

Niggers consume

Prove me wrong kike

>> No.11914682
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>> No.11914684

You can read the writings yourself. You're basically just spouting British liberal fantasies about how we'll all be frens if we trade things when there's no evidence for this claim.

>> No.11914699

I did not say that. You chose "Cletus" an stereotypical white redneck name calling him too dumb and too proud to work in any other field than agriculture. You continually used this example and continually brought up race nor did I favor one race over the other I kept to your talking points.

I did not say white people deserve welfare exclusively you are putting words into my mouth trying to win an argument.

>> No.11914702

Retard everything is more expensive because of inflation

>> No.11914703


Especially when countries aren’t equal - good faith free Trade is impossible

>> No.11914720

So what faggot you should
Be MAKING MORE and if you aren’t YOU ARE A LOSER

>> No.11914727

Unless you’re a farmer than you’re based

>> No.11914733

Blacks are seen as lazy, yet it was the slaves who worked the most in american history.

After emancipation the ruling class has loved to use racism to divide us up, they know the kind of gains black and white would make if they were ever to join hands against them. And they fear such an eventuality. This is why both democrats and republicans love to stoke racial resentment.

>> No.11914740

You’re a fucking retard congrats!

>> No.11914745
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Fuck no.

The reckoning is coming. He put the dominoes in place

>> No.11914751

so Cletus is a racial slur for white people now? I hope I didn't offend you buddy!

>I did not say white people deserve welfare exclusively you are putting words into my mouth trying to win an argument.

but my whole argument is that they shouldn't get welfare, if you agree with that then there is nothing to argue about

you dumbass know you can create a single post and do all the replies instead of doing it one by one right?

>> No.11914752

>slaves built this country

Wow you are a public school educated faggot - you literally got brainwashed

>> No.11914767

I do one by one to bump so everyone can see how retarded your dripping cunt is

>> No.11914783

Corn nigger

Ethanol nigger

Go back to school NIGGER


>> No.11914784

The phrase "built this country" is meaningless. It is, however, a simple empirical fact that slaves, as a class, worked, and worked hard.

>> No.11914790

Slaves were FORCED to work hard by whites who were smart enough not to do it themselves

Keep trying tho you slimy scrotum lover.

>> No.11914794

but schools are expensive, and we spent all our money on corn and and planes

>> No.11914795

Please clarify what you meant with using "Cletus" then.

Also I will not give you a cop out for you so you can save your self worth. You continually change what you were orignally arguing about and avoid anything YOU brought up if you are backed into a corner.

>> No.11914807

I am a teacher - public education ain’t saving anybody and if you think it is you are going to be disappointed

Go celebrate hanukah

>> No.11914816

He’s lost the argument

The ladyboy is a fucking retard

Ignore him

>> No.11914838

Most whites were not slave holders, and it was quite intentional on the part of the slaveholding aristocracy of the south to make the poorest whites the ones holding the whip. This wasn't an exercise in intelligence, it was an exercise in brutal social and ideological control.

And we should keep in mind, although chattel slavery is gone, wage slavery persists. Instead of owning people, the ruling class just rents them instead. A white worker didn't have any choice but to work as well, he just had hunger instead of the whip as the thing keeping him in line.

>> No.11914841

Will do I am out. Tired as fuck Europe Anon here. To think my original question was literally just what the TPP is.

>> No.11914847

Cletus refers to those dumb people not their race
no you aren't, I would bet you barely graduated high school
imagine being THIS retarded you can't even make a reply post

>> No.11914869

You’ve been blown to bits nigger I am left to sweep up your bits

>> No.11914883

You are right but you lack understanding in primal human nature - get to know it and then maybe youll realize the means justify the ends

>> No.11914886

you have quite the imagination buddy

>> No.11914889

unironically, this.

>> No.11914913

The end was the abolition of slavery, in this case, and the creation of capitalist hegemony in the US.

Or if you mean the ultimate end, then you have absolutely no idea what's coming.

>> No.11914914

>>Total nonfarm payroll employment rose by 250,000 in October, and the unemployment rate was unchanged at 3.7 percent

c'mon dude don't spread lies.

>> No.11915029

Sorry is that a bad rate or still historically

>> No.11915045


>> No.11915057

it's good, but it's not all time good.

>> No.11915178
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>There is literally nothing wrong with skilled immigration.
There's something wrong with it when literally one-third of the country is either out of work or on some form of government assistance, and the government doesn't make any effort to fund educational programs that would allow people that are already American born citizens to learn these skills easily without having to go 200K+ in debt. You do see the classist barrier to entry that's been set up here, don't you?

>> No.11915267

Whiter back then than now for sure

>> No.11915598


>> No.11915610

economy is artifice, his solutions are artificial

>> No.11915706
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The reason we subsidize farmers is so they won't over farm, soil needs to be fallow for a season so it won't become dust. I can't imagine being as dumb as you, it must hurt.

>> No.11915720

Just one reason of many

But let these economy majors sell all our farmland to the chinks absolutely nothing can go wrong Cletus just needs to learn how to code dummy!

>> No.11915731

>Bernie would have been a better contender

Yeah No, He was a fucking loser out and out. He would been trounced by the asians. We all have good ideas, I'm sure bernie said shit that sounded good to people, but he wouldn't have seen them through.

>> No.11915738

I should add-

“Well just get all our food from Vietnamese rice farmers”

>> No.11915772

Jews aren’t white

>> No.11915776

This is the elephant in the room. Tbh higher interest rates just increases barrier to entry for smaller businesses. Just my 2 cents

>> No.11915856
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>we give them free money so they can farm less
I can't imagine how a brainlet like you can even operate a computer

>> No.11915863

hes the pres ever

>> No.11915875

done wonders for the israeli ecnomy

>> No.11915907

We give them subsidies because in the event of a war or famine we still have food security for our own nation. If it was entirely free market our farmers wouldn't be able to compete.

>> No.11915951

Imagine being this deluded

>> No.11915982

You're right!
But that's not what were getting!

>> No.11917115

> average jouneyman makes 65/hr and has to turn down work.

Bullshit on the hourly, and the demand was created by decades of neglecting the trades, not extraordinary growth. Not something I'd necessarily consider a positive, but has helped net me a good bit of OT this year.

>> No.11917331

You are a sheltered moron who is caught up in theoretic principles to such an extent that they are completely unhinged from practicality and pragmatic considerations.

Military superiority is the sole reason this house of cards continues to stand.
We are not above or beyond dominance, might is right, you will only fully appreciate this fact once the boot comes crashing down and until then you will rationalize your idealism however needed.

It is all about power.

>> No.11917352

Hell no. He cut taxes, good. He didn't cut gov spending, bad.

>> No.11917364


That's what they charge customers but not what they are paid.

>> No.11917390

yeah dumbass, I would love to see your superior army doing anything after you go bankrupt. If you want to spend in military you also need taxes. Thats why you dumb conservatards are just as dumb as socialists, you just can't understand simple math

>> No.11917408

>it's almost like you can coerce nations into serving your interests and giving you interest free loans or bomb them to oblivion for not being free.

>> No.11917420


The economy is doing good right now but on the long term it's going to be a fucking disaster. 1 trillion $ in deficits, ONE TRILLION DOLLARS! The last time deficit was this high was when Obama was still dealing with the lingering effects of the greatest financial crash in nearly a century. Meanwhile Trump plunges the country into a large deficit even in a good economy.

Now wait until the economy goes bad and the deficits becomes unsustainable. Big crash ahead folks, you've been warned.

>> No.11917428

>Bullshit on the hourly
This last summer, Journeyman were getting $65/hr. I know because I paid them. Only apprentices were settling for prevailing wage and even then not very often. Do you know how many "fuck off" bids electrical contractors have kicked me this year?

Oregon btw.

>> No.11917458
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>still doesn't understand simple math
when you go bankrupt you will not have any salaries to give your army, you will no longer have any military to threaten people with

>> No.11917465

Obama damage? He brought the country out of the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression, and you say he's damaged the economy?

Hillary and Trump are literally the same crooked types of politicians, both slaves to corporate overlords. You think Hillary is anti-business? Is that why Wolf Street was creaming itself over Hillary and was paying her hundreds of thousands of dollars JUST TO SPEAK?

Hillary was the corporate pawn of the Wall Street and Sillicon Valley types.

Trump is the corporate pawn of the Big Oil and billionaire-dominated businesses.

Stop being so naive and start seeing the illusion of difference you see when looking at Dems and repubs.

>> No.11917488

Actual electrician here, that's what the firms charge you per hour for one of their personnel but not what they receive as wage.

Men with swords never starve.
You will never go bankrupt when you can strong-arm everyone, if America would go bankrupt they would take the world economy with them, they make it so it is in nobody's interest. Economic MAD policy.

>> No.11917507


Of course he was, he's a smart successful businessman by trade

>> No.11917519

too bad the real world doesn't work like your little fantasies bucko, the only reason USA has the strongest military is because they have a lot of money to spend on expensive toys, when you remove the expensive toys you are nothing but a bunch of overweight lardies, you gonna get eaten

>> No.11917620

>a marine is a fat lardo

>> No.11917667

too bad USA doesn't have conscription, thats why your military is made mostly of sociopath paid hitmen with no loyalty and literal tards that cant get employed anywhere else, and the rest of the country are too fat to enter a military tent

>> No.11917673

>having people who are unfit to fight makes your army better

>> No.11917721

all volunteer armies are vastly superior man for man when compared to conscription armies

that's why every modern military and militia is volunteer, except for switzerland

>> No.11917723

how do i prep for the crash anon?

>> No.11917892

yes they are good as long as you have money to pay them, because thats what paid hitmen do. When you run out of money they all gonna leave and fuck you over in a period of conflict

>> No.11917921

well that escalated fast.

>> No.11917975

Most US troopers, including marines, have shit physical conditions. Most of them aren't even fit to haul their stuff across combat zones.
t. has been deployed with

>> No.11918099

No, his economic policies are generally awful. The tariffs & trade war is by far the dumbest thing he's done, and it will have negative effects on the US economy and our geopolitical standing for many years after he leaves office. They were not needed because our economy was already doing well in 2016, they have led to job losses and factory closures, they have alienated us from our allies, they have caused unnecessary shortages of steel and caused a logistics nightmare. But Trump hates free trade (it's literally the one position he has been consistent on since the 1980's, he's flip-flopped on every other position he's ever had) and so he's going to spend the next 2-6 years shitting on our allies and fucking up our economy slowly but surely.
There's just no justification for tariffs and sparking unnecessary fights with the WTO and ripping up our multilateral trade agreements and free trade agreements. The US literally wrote the goddamn rules on free trade, our negotiators have spent decades stacking the odds in all of these agreements in our favor. The TPP was basically forcing everyone else to play by US rules and laws. All of the TPP nations knew that siding with the US is always the right move. And then Trump comes along and throws it in the bin without even listening to his advisors because he is a stubborn, senile old man. Now we're in a fight with the WTO, our own fucking creation that we designed to force free trade down the throats of third world nations so that we could get cheap shit to fuel our own economy.

The only reason we aren't in a recession already is because the economy has been remarkably resilient after several years of growth under Obama. The GOP tax cut has certainly helped stave off that recession (even if it did come with a dagger in the backs of the middle class), but it's like applying bandaids to a gunshot wound.

>> No.11918108


>> No.11918113

That's why he inflated the stock market even more with his tax cut. Trump is part of (((the game)))

>> No.11918139
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A quality retort, my NPC friend. You sure showed me.

>> No.11918167

I'm guessing Obama's massive racking up of our federal deficit (yeah I know Bush sucks too yada yada yada) doesn't matter too much to you, huh? Typical lefty kek

>> No.11918213

he has been good for the oligarch elite, not the economy.
The economy is more than the 1% on wall street.

>> No.11918228

Except our budget is set by Congress, not the President. Congress sets forth appropriations that the President & the executive branch then uses. Appropriations generally come with conditions that the agency has to follow; they're not blank checks, they're usually explicit with what aims & goals Congress wants to see. Any blame for the rise in our federal deficit is solely to blame with spendthrifts in the House/Senate Appropriations committees.

Coincidentally, we've had a GOP-led House for eight years and a GOP-led Senate for four. And the appropriations committees in both chambers of Congress have been led by GOP congressmen, who hold (or held) a considerable majority over the Democrats in the minority. But that's just a coincidence. Totally unrelated to the increasing deficit. Which is only because of evil leftist boogeymen like Schumer and Pelosi, am I right?

>> No.11918240

Don't bother. They aren't going to legitimately debate. They'll just spout memes and ignore entire segments just to keep pissing you off.

>> No.11918259

I actually agree with 95% of what you said. This isn't 2002 lmao the GOP can eat a dick too.

>> No.11918380

Deficit increased by 30% during Trump. Thats what happens when you increase spending and reduce your income

>> No.11918396

But when does it pop?

>> No.11918426


>> No.11918481

Knee pads

>> No.11918513

>"In eight years they [the Obama administration] borrowed more than it [the government] did in the whole history of our country. They borrowed more than $10 trillion, right? And yet we picked up $5 trillion just in the stock market, possibly the whole thing in terms of the first nine months [of my presidency] in terms of values. So in one sense you could say we're really increasing values and maybe in a sense we're reducing debt."
This is your president. He has no clue what he is doing and the debt + trade war is going to cripple American world influence for a few decades

>> No.11918689

Boohoo muh allies. Fuck Europe, and fuck neoliberalism, both are tainted and sad dreams of peace that need to burn down. We had to liberate Europe twice, next time we go in we shouldn't pull out nor let those suicidal idiots ever run anything by themselves again. And on all your free trade shit, it was made to benefit neoliberals that are on the top of the system not those who work their asses off, so why should I care if we burn the entire paradigm down? It hasn't helped me or my family besides on giving us shitty consumer goods I don't want. Also no the middle class and economy hasn't been even touched by Trump's tariffs or the GOP tax, if anything they were both ways to punish enemies and help allies, a redistributed tax from parasites in blue states to parasites in the red states. Its funny that when the redistributed tax hits dems you cry about how its a net negative just like the NPC Trumptards.

>> No.11918693

>commie is anyone who doesn’t want the invisible hand of the market to finger his asshole


>> No.11918745

So many morons today think we have escaped the laws of history and competition between nation-states.

I know in your pathetic, small mind you think that the international order is based on cooperation nowadays — and that who owns what doesn’t matter because “all nations are in this together.” The conflicts of old are over, according to you. This is a different time. Well, this was precisely what the concord of Europe believed after the Franco-Prussian war during the 1870s up until WW1. They believe that peace had come, a harmony of nations was present and a “balance” was set. And then, in just a few decades, the world went mad.

This is the naive mentality of the current age. You exemplify it, and there will be a brutal reality-check when inevitable conflict arises on the global stage, as is the law of how nations operate in today’s world driven by power.

You can keep being happy you got $0.50 off that McNugget, because you’re so easily placated.

>> No.11918769

Well said anon.

>> No.11918797

your outdated tribalistic mentality makes you unable to understand how the modern world works. The reality is that, our economies are so intertwined if you wage war to a country like China you are going to get fucked as much as them no matter who "wins" in the end

>> No.11918833

orange man bad

>> No.11918856

>The reality is that, our economies are so intertwined if you wage war to a country like China you are going to get fucked as much as them no matter who "wins" in the end
This is a myth, trade relations lead to even more muddy water making it even more likely for wars to happen.
Athens and Sparta both traded.
Rome and Cartage both traded.
English and French both traded.
Indians and British both traded.
German and British both traded.

Go through history and it comes to be the opposite, the less contact you have with someone the less hotpoints you get. Its one reason attributed to why the USSR and US never had WWIII. Its why the Indians and Romans never wared. Why the Chinese and Egyptians never wared, and why the Europeans and Americans didn't till they met each other, and started trading.

>> No.11918871

your ancient examples don't work for the modern world, modern trade takes much larger percentage of economies, we have planes and fast cars and global communication network, you can't stop this

>> No.11918920

You realize you aren’t countering his argument with this statement - only proving he is right.

>> No.11918927

None of the above will prevent inevitable global conflict.

>> No.11918930

Alright, explain two very recent and simple ones, I'm sure you can.
USSR and US.
Explain the breakup of Yugoslavia.

>> No.11918950
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Dude. That doesn't even make sense. Your whole set of counterexamples for people who didn't war is pairs of people on different continents in times when it took months/years to travel.

>This is a myth, trade relations lead to even more muddy water making it even more likely for wars to happen.
Trade is negatively correlated with distance. So is war. I think you might be getting some spurious causal links here.

Also look at this fucking graph. We have never even been close to this trade-reliant. Even the colonies came close to this level of inter-country trade.

>> No.11918983

The economy is good because the federal reserve keeps interest rates low. Eventually they're going to raise them and trigger a recession. It's only a matter of how long the recession is. I'm guessing 8 months

>> No.11919005

They’ve raised them 11 times under Trump asshole

>> No.11919019

USSR didn't have free trade with USA or anyone and they collapsed

Yugoslavia was a shithole and not relevant with our discussion

>> No.11919032
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>> No.11919033

>Your whole set of counterexamples for people who didn't war is pairs of people on different continents in times when it took months/years to travel.
Didn't stop the Spanish from taking over north America, on an entirely different continent. People started trading and before you knew it the UK owned India and Europe was breaking apart China. But in the end they have little to no interactions with each other which is the point. A Roman won't fight a China man if he doesn't know who that person is, let alone how many he will have to face. But Athens and Sparta fraught in spite of trade.
>Also look at this fucking graph. We have never even been close to this trade-reliant.
Doesn't matter, Yugoslavia remains the perfect example of why conflict will still come up. The entire nation split apart in spite of it being more beneficial for them to stay together as a political and economic union.

>> No.11919036

Of course they are raising them
>the FED has to fight inflation
>prices rises because companies transfer their tariffs costs on their prices
>inflation up
>the FED hikes rates
>Trump gets mad, announces another tariff hike to please his votebase

>> No.11919043

Why are chinks buying up all our farmland if control over farmland isn’t vital?

>> No.11919055

But he said the economy is good Bc they are keeping them low.

They aren’t. They keep raising them while Obama got 3 raises

>> No.11919060

>Don't use examples I don't like
Cope, Yugoslavia wasn't only politically integrated but economically, and still ripped itself apart. Might have been good to keep trading but the people were sick of each other and would rather both be miserable then let the other one be rich.

>> No.11919069

Well historically speaking they are still low compared to what they used to be before 2008.

>> No.11919080


>tfw when China starves everyone by controlling the entire food supply

>> No.11919094

But they were even lower under obama and the economy was in the shitter

Fed is raising rates now to slow the economy down

>> No.11919100

Never underestimate the power of men who have nothing left but the pleasure of watching the world burn.

Cletus will have his day.

>> No.11919109

your argument doesn't work for shitholes full of poor people that hate each other, might as well give me Iraq and African shitholes as an example too

>> No.11919137

Your problem is you think nothing can happen that can destroy the current world order and way of trading when history has proven time and time and time and time again that things do happen.

And when that happens and the chinks are in control of our food supply and our farmers are training to make apps within latisha for Apple we are in for some real pain.

>> No.11919144

The end goal is to keep our unsustainable growth from having no fail safe, which would be a interest rate drop. Think of it as an insurance on the economy, might be a bitch to pay in the here and now but hopefully it'll be worthwhile. Doubt its being done to hurt his re-election chances, though I don't doubt Obango pressured the FED to keep them low to help Shillary.
My example isn't an African state you absolute asshat. Stop being a neoliberal kike, this shit is a lie though and through. People only don't kill each other over trade conflicts today because the US keeps them from doing so. Wonder why the US still has wars over oil but other states don't? Its not because of a global economy, but because of a world hyperpower.

>> No.11919172

People aren’t killing each other over trade because of our navy - plane and simple sonyou are correct

You’re naive if you think the Fed isn’t slowing the economy down to hurt trump and the middle class

>> No.11919200

>People aren’t killing each other over trade because of our navy - plane and simple sonyou are correct
Okay, so do we agree power projection is more important to keeping peace then trade relations? If so then we are in agreement.
>naive if you think the Fed isn’t slowing the economy down to hurt trump
Call me whatever you want, I don't think they are otherwise they'd have increased it even more. But it looks like they were pressured by Obango to help Hillary. As soon as Obango saw Hillary had lost he stopped and they started rising rates again.

>> No.11919230

Sure we agree on that

Would you also agree producing and controlling our own food sources and farmland and making sure we have a healthy agrarian class regardless of “cost” is absolutely vital to a nation regardless of how big their military is?

And the fed WILL continue to raise rates under trump - they’ve already raised them 11 times. They raised them 3 times under obama - trump was right when he said Obama got to play with funny money. The fed artificially propped up the economy under king nigger

Now we have a force of nature in office that’s got us moving in the right direction and we need to suddenly raise rates and slow things down. Fuck you if you support this bullshit I am 30 and need to buy and house and have kids and I can’t do that in a stagnant economy

>> No.11919237

And I can’t do that if the fed keeps raising fucking rates every time the little guy gets a little bit ahead

>> No.11919292

>regardless of “cost” is absolutely vital to a nation regardless of how big their military is
Ditto it for a few other essentials yeah, food policy and a few other industries (energy) are equally important not to ship overseas due to geopolitics, regardless of net gains from trade.
>Fuck you if you support this bullshit I am 30 and need to buy and house and have kids and I can’t do that in a stagnant economy
The economy will always be fucking stagnate due to neoliberals who sold this country out before we were born. Interest rates increase is a mixed bag. Sure it'll continue, but it won't be crazy high. At least it'll keep the faggots who were benefiting off of the low rates from selling this country out even more.

>> No.11919346

>Countries that aren’t 3rd world never go to war or have military conflicts.

Christ imagine being this dense

>> No.11919406
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>> No.11919688

Boing you’re a Retard

>> No.11919711

The fact that people believe that open trade based on globalism is the only way to make your economy strong is such a fucking brainwashing thing to think.
China were literally buying the US up slowly, they were outperforming them, making companies RALLY to China rather than the US, etc etc. Why do you think chinese funded propaganda tools were constantly shilling against Trump? Why do you think China treated Trump so gently the first time Xi and him met compared to Obama?

It's not fucking hard to understand that China is in an extremely powerful position. They don't have bureaucracy, they can order to construction of several skyscrapers and get it approved in a day by the congress they fully control, they don't have democracy pushing them backwards on certain issues, they don't follow certain international laws, the chinese government can do whatever the fuck they want without being pushed back by another political party, they can pay workers in scraps for very hard labour that westerners would demand higher wages for along with bonuses, etc etc.

So of course a guy like Trump would want to try and halt the chinese bulldozer and the only way he can do that is with tariffs. You should be happy though since this is /biz/, Trump is the master of volatility and I certainly are enjoying this market. But don't come here pretending that everything was just fine before Trump took office.
Either way, the US will lose thanks to democracy in the end. No matter what, Trump will be gone in 2024 and considering how elections work here in the western world, people 90% of the times picks the other party just to switch things up.. especially after 8 years of one party control. MEANWHILE, China will have the exact same party and power as before.. 10 years from now, 15 years from now, 30 years from now.

>> No.11919986

>He brought the country out of the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression
Wrong, in fact there's good reason to believe that Obama actually hindered the economic recovery, especially considering the massive bailout he issued that basically encouraged the same sort of behavior that created 2008 global financial crisis.

>> No.11920104

well since those guys don't have shit jobs they probably are rich. why do you want cheap goods for rich people anon. Not protecting the jobs of the poor will make them not be able to buy those cheap goods. So only the rich wins, why would anyone want that

>> No.11920842


>> No.11920849

Dude is wasted

>> No.11920859
File: 33 KB, 276x304, 1aa58ef4fbb40d8c13d235a7f94eff1a81a5189f2703cf935c662c4a92a93667.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>China doesn't have bureaucracy