/biz/ - Business & Finance

[Anonymous No.11518045]

>read like 30 explanations of what a blockchain is
>still don't understand it
I will never make it. Analogies don't work on me.

[Anonymous No.11518063]

>>11518045
Its like if an excel spreadsheet is changed its sent to thousands of people at the same time so not 1 single person can change whats in it.

[Anonymous No.11518066]

it's just a decentralized ledger containing transactions between different wallets that is cryptographically secured.

[Anonymous No.11518069]

>>11518063
How does that translate into crypto

[Anonymous No.11518076]

>>11518063
>Its like if an excel spreadsheet
Kek I miss this.

[Anonymous No.11518083]

>>11518069
Because the spreadsheet is only looking at what addresses has how many bitcoin which will not be more than 21 million.

[Anonymous No.11518086]

>>11518045

Think about it like a turtle and the snake reference
The turtle goes slow at the start but finishes, the snake records the turtle and also finishes but it's kind of different.

[Anonymous No.11518087]

>>11518066
Who adds more records of new transactions to the ledger

And how do they do it so it reflects a real transaction and not a fake

[Anonymous No.11518101]

>>11518045
Read it or listen to it NIGGER.

[Anonymous No.11518106]

>>11518087

Sort of, but it's a bit more complicated than that. It's less of a reflection and more of a refraction, an illusory state.

[Anonymous No.11518123]

Blockchain is just a group of transaction that get verified by everyone on the network by solving a really hard math rock and the first person to solve that really hard math problem gets to create the block. Then a new group of transactions are lumped together and everyone gets to fight over who will be the next producer of the block. Does that make a little more sense OP?

[Anonymous No.11518124]

>>11518101
I have to read an entire book to understand what a blockchain is?

>>11518086
>>11518106
S-shut up you're confusing me

>>11518083
How does it get updated

[Anonymous No.11518130]

>>11518123
oops typed math rock, meant math problem. I'm tired as fuck

[Anonymous No.11518134]

>>11518045
its a chain of blocks
also
>investing in chains of blocks instead of block of chains in the year of our lord 2016+1+1+0.83

[Anonymous No.11518141]

>>11518045
Me neither. It doesn't mean you can't make a shitload of money though. Leave the details to the nerds.

[Anonymous No.11518142]

>>11518123
>>11518124
>>11518130

I'll stop

The transactions are recorded on the Ledger
Each block holds a number of transactions
Transactions are filled into blocks, and every 10 minutes a block is "mined"

[Anonymous No.11518151]

>>11518087
You can only change it once you do a certain amount of work and everyone agreed to the change. To move Bitcoin from one address to another you would have to get permission from the sender (a signature) and then do the work required to change the ledger (which is what proof-of-work is)

[Anonymous No.11518152]

>>11518123
Yeah I kinda understand


So each shitcoin has its own blockchain? What makes one coin better than another?

[Anonymous No.11518155]

>>11518142

Which means like the transactions are permanently recorded on the blockchain
The reason this works is because every computer "mining" each block has to confirm the trueness of the transaction - if only my computer shows a transaction from A to Y for $1000, and no one else's does, then it is not a valid transaction

There are thousands of computers who's job is to verify the transactions on the Bitcoin network by mining and recording this data, they can be referred to as nodes.

[Anonymous No.11518159]

>>11518045
nigger just think about how torrents work and instead of music you put money instead. peer to peer transactions without the bank being the middle man to take a percentage for "trust".

[Anonymous No.11518165]

>>11518152

Some shitcoins have their own blockchains. ETH allows for easier use of Smart Contracts which is why it is useful.

Other blockchains just offer faster speed, less fees, and other gimmicks.

Bitcoin is powerful because it has been secure for such a long time.

Other cryptos focus on being used for a purpose, they are known as tokens.

[Anonymous No.11518174]

>>11518165
What's the end game of all of coins? To become a common means of doing transactions?

[Anonymous No.11518177]

>>11518045
Op I will try to explain it simple for you.
If you have ever done accounting it will be simple for you. There is thing called the global ledger. This is exactly like a balance sheet in accounting with your debits and credits. It is a record of all the transactions. This is transparently available to see online in real time.
A easy example is with ethereum smart contract gaming. Lets say i buy 1 of 100 swords on a crypto game. Once the transaction for buying the sword is done it is then saved on the block chain. This is in the form of an erc20 token. So it will show my eth address owning that erc20 token on the block chain. If I was to send the sword to another user it will show a transaction on the blockchain and then it will shown to be owned to the person i sent it to. The block chain is unmovable.

[Anonymous No.11518187]

>>11518174
how stupid do you have to be to formulate a question with that wording?

[Anonymous No.11518211]

>>11518177
OK I finally feel like I get it


What I don't understand is: why are there so many coins? A few years back I remember only hearing about bitcoin. Now there's hundreds of coins. If all there is to it is transactions through a decentralized and secure method where things can't be falsified, why isn't there just one single coin like bitcoin?

>>11518187
I'm pretty dumb. I just want to know: what do bitcoin, ethereum, etc. hope to one day achieve? That all people are trading with their coin exclusively? That I can buy things with their coin?

[Anonymous No.11518215]

>>11518211
And I know you can buy things with these coins. I just mean, that they become as common as paying with dollars at a store

[Anonymous No.11518222]

>>11518045
you dont need to understand it to make money faggot ass retard

[Anonymous No.11518236]

>>11518045
This is all you need to know.

[Anonymous No.11518249]

>>11518222 (checked)
I don't want to put money into something I don't understand

[Anonymous No.11518353]

>>11518249
/thread right here

[Anonymous No.11518370]

>>11518236

[Anonymous No.11518877]

>>11518086
>>11518124
Lmao turtle and snake?

[Anonymous No.11518885]

>>11518063
Dr Roubini?

[Anonymous No.11518902]

I just told the people i had to explain mining POW that they should imagine it as a bunch of apes who hold a rubics cube, and the asics arw the geneticly modified apes on steroids

[Anonymous No.11518924]

imagine if leaving your car running made solved Sudokus that you could sell for heroin on the internet

[Anonymous No.11519025]

>>11518924
Lmao

[Anonymous No.11519058]

>>11518924
nize

[Anonymous No.11519059]

>>11518101
Was thinking about buying this. Is it worth reading?

[Anonymous No.11519496]

Sounds fake and gay

Block chain is like the powerglove
It's a fucking scam

[Anonymous No.11519528]

>>11518045
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMoc4zU39hM

[Anonymous No.11519741]

>>11518045
/g/entooman here. If you (or any of you) want the technical stuff, ask away, I'm bored.

[Anonymous No.11519747]

>>11518045
when the poo poo you can't just pee pee but you also have to poo poo

[Anonymous No.11519787]

Imagine playing chinese whispers with 1000 people but you can gaurantee what they whisper to you is the original message, and can trust it.

[Anonymous No.11519794]

>>11519741
What if some jackass puts up a transaction that i supposedly paid him 1 btc and the whole network spergs out and starts solving that

[Anonymous No.11519801]

>>11519794
He cant do that without having access to your private key

[Anonymous No.11519808]

>>11519801
Okay, can you explain how the whole wallet system works? I've heard something about offline wallets and shit, are they stored ON the network itself, or hosted by like private websites?

since this is a brainlet thread i fit in perfectly

[Anonymous No.11519811]

>>11519794
The transaction must be "signed" by you with your cryptographic private key. If said jackass can't access it, like >>11519801 said, everybody in the network can see the signature is wrong.

[Anonymous No.11519815]

>>11518123
grug really like rock, maybe grug get his own rock too

[Anonymous No.11519823]

>>11518045
dont overthinkg it OP
you just put money in and then get more money out its really simple. its a new paradigm and well all be rich $$$

[Anonymous No.11519824]

>>11519811
So can you "see" how much money people have? If there's a long record of transactions the whole systems keeps in check, does it just verify that I should have amount required > amount owned.

[Anonymous No.11519838]

>>11519824
what don't you get?
you asked how the system knows if someone forged a transaction - someone can't forge a transaction without your private key, or it'll show up that the transaction wasn't signed with a valid private/public key match

it's not really "comparing how much you should have versus how much you actually have" it's just checking to see if private/public key match

and ya if someone knows a wallet address (public key) they can obviously see how much money people have in that wallet

[Anonymous No.11519849]

>>11519838
>and ya if someone knows a wallet address (public key) they can obviously see how much money people have in that wallet

so let's say in the future a business is entirely run via bitcoin, then you would see tons of transactions going towards wages, suppliers, fixed costs and what not, there's a huge amount of data in that you wouldn't necessarily want your competition to know about, isn't that a problem? despite the adresses being somewhat anonymous

[Anonymous No.11519853]

>>11518211

Bitcoin is a blockchain with the sole purpose of transfering value from A to B.
Ethereum is a blockchain with the sole purpose of running algorithms (programs) IF a certain event is triggered on the blockchain.
(ETH is the token on the Ethereum blockchain)

The end goal:
Decentralize monetary system and accessability / processing of information.

[Anonymous No.11519863]

>>11519808
The thing about blockchain is that every "node" in the network must have a copy of every operation ever made in the history (roughly speaking, there are exceptions), so everyone in the network can see (and testify to) what's in your wallet. It is a very inefficient way to store large amounts of data, but it's necessary for the type of requirements you guys want.

>>11519824
See the answer above. Everybody can see how much """"""money"""""" your public key has, but they don't know who owns that key. And yes, part of the process is just verifying the amount necessary vs amount owned. The hard part is agreeing on the order of the transactions without a centralized authority and with malicious agents.

[Anonymous No.11519882]

>>11519863
do the public keys ever change? If I paid you one time, i'd know what your address looks like right?

so if I bought a tshirt at a store, or ordered a large quantity from a supplier, I'd be able to sort of track that private key and look at its transactions?

[Anonymous No.11519892]

>>11519849
Yes, if anybody is able to link a "real-world" transaction to a bitcoin transaction, they can determine who owns the wallet. It's a known vulnerability.

If that's a problem, have multiple wallets and switch them regularly.

>>11519882
See above

[Anonymous No.11519907]

>>11518249
This is exactly why I didn't buy bitcoin in 2011, although I wasn't smart enough in order to put the time into understanding it either

[Anonymous No.11519949]

>>11519808
Conceptually a bitcoin wallet is the same as a normal wallet; you keep money in it and whoever has possession of it can take the money out of it.

Public key for receiving private key for spending. Your public key is like your bank account number and the private key is like your password to your bank account.
The difference is ownership of the private key is ownership of the wallet without anybodys consent. Whereas your ownership of the funds in a bank account are dependent on many things out of your control.

While ownership of a key pair is the simplest wallet, most wallets are software that will allow you to create transactions and may use new addresses each transaction to obfuscate ownership

[Anonymous No.11519974]

>>11519949
A hardware wallet is a device that isolates private keys visually and electronically

This is in response to using a private key requires exposing it to a computer which can contain key loggers, remote viewing, clipboard hijackers

[Anonymous No.11520031]

>>11519892
Also, if anyone here is planning to start a business based on blockchain, my advice is: Don't. (Receiving money through Bitcoin is mostly OK, though, if that's your thing)
Blockchain is a technology meant to do one single thing: Order events in a fully distributed environment where anybody could be a malicious agent. Read that last sentence again, it's very important. It means:

- If you don't need to order events, you don't need blockchain.
- If you need more than to order events, you need more than blockchain.
- If there is anyone in the network you can trust (such as your own company servers), you don't need blockchain.
- If there is anyone who has more authority over the network than anybody else (such as you), you don't need blockchain.

There are tons of companies trying to use blockchain in places it's not needed, and the thing is blockchain is a VERY inefficient and expensive. It is used for cryptocoins because it's the only way known to do the single thing blockchain does.
The bottom line is that there is money to be made from blockchain, but only for consultants and crypto traders (and they are both scammers).

[Anonymous No.11520032]

>>11519892
Alright so it's not completely a perfect system

>>11519949
Ok

[Anonymous No.11520045]

>>11518063
Are you fucking retarded?

>>11518045
READ THE WHITEPAPER ITS 6 PAGES

[Anonymous No.11520071]

>>11520031
So imagine you're a small business owner. You have 5 employees. You have a limited amount of transactions every month, due to you size.

I get paid 0,20 btc every month, but I can see in the blockchain that another payment is going out for 0,22 btc every month at the same time. Probably to my co-worker, right?

Unless you like try to disguise it buying office supplies every month, it's pretty easier to figure out

[Anonymous No.11520075]

>>11520032
Bitcoin is not about anonymity. It's about market governed monetary policy and it makes a world where it is a lot less profitable to be a good liar which is a bad thing for criminals

[Anonymous No.11520077]

>>11520031
Saying we dont need decentralized processing is like saying we dont need separation of powers in politics because we can trust one institution to do their job perfectly.

We dont need blockchain technology but we will want it.

[Anonymous No.11520119]

>>11520071
That's right. >>11519949 added a twist I didn't know: Wallet software will use multiple keys to obfuscate the transactions. That's really cool and alleviates the problem, but doesn't solve it.

>>11520077
My point is about businesses based on blockchain. Because of the decentralized nature of the blockchain, it's mostly unfit to people wanting to provide a service, especially if they want to charge for it. Again, keep in mind I'm not talking about receiving money through memecoins.
For the "government revolution" it might work, though.

[Anonymous No.11520122]

>>11518045
its like public whore, she can be shared by thousands of ppl across world, where single person cannot fuck it with out consent/agree from all ppl on board with her. i hope this simple terms helps you to understand better

[Anonymous No.11520174]

>>11520119
Cashless societies are inevitable, all electronic transactions are on ledgers bitcoin means everyone has access to that ledger not just government

Everyday people are not smuggling drugs, trafficking children, laundering criminal money in the british isles to then be used to alter political processes in their favour.

[Anonymous No.11520233]

>>11520174
Again, my point wasn't about coins. (Although the people really earning money through crypto are hardware makers and energy plant operators)
Look at companies like https://www.forbes.com/sites/andrewrossow/2018/07/10/top-10-new-blockchain-companies-to-watch-for-in-2018/ and ask yourself "If they operate on the blockchain, why are they needed? How can they protect themselves from a competitor that uses the very same network and provides the very same service for free?".
The answer will always be some kind of physical or logical centralization, which defeats the point of blockchain.

[Anonymous No.11520238]

>>11520119
but it gives you an extra layer of security

[Anonymous No.11520306]

>>11520238
See, the thing is that it doesn't.
I work in a related field, and I have talked about this with (good) security researchers and former classmates of mine who are blockchain consultants nowadays (making a lot more money than I do, but that's life), and we all can agree that, outside that one scenario where blockchain is useful, there's no advantage to it over a proper distributed database + trusted timestamping. In fact, there's a huge disadvantage to blockchain: the monstrous operating costs.

[Anonymous No.11520526]

blockchain is like a database just slower and less useful

[Anonymous No.11521037]

>>11518236

[Anonymous No.11521075]

I'm not really exactly too sure what a public key is...

[Anonymous No.11521143]

>>11521075
Is this bait or a real question?

[CryptoNick No.11521168]

>>11521143
No I actually have no Idea what a Public key is. Can you tell me?

[Anonymous No.11521178]

>>11518045
its an unchangable database powered by game theory

[Anonymous No.11521309]

>>11521168
Alright, let's start by what an encryption key is:
Let's suppose you want to send me a secret message by offsetting each letter by "n", following the alphabetical order.
We somehow securely agree to use n=2, then you send me the message "QR ku b gbh" which, knowing n, I can decode to "OP is a fag". Anyone who doesn't know n, can only guess by trying many values (think that n can be a VERY large number).
In this example, we used symmetric encryption, which uses a single key (our n) to encode and decode the information.

There is another type of encryption, called asymmetric, which uses TWO keys. Unlike our single key n, those keys must be numbers with special properties, so we need a computer to generate them for us. Those special properties make it so any message encoded with one of them can only be decoded with the other, and knowing one of them doesn't make it any easier to guess the other.
Then I can keep one of the keys a secret (private), and publish the other to the world to see (public). So, whenever you want to talk to me privately, you can encode the message with my public key, send me, and only I can decode it, because only I have the private key. To answer you, I have to encode the message with your public key.
Now there's a problem: If the public key is public, how can you know the message is actually mine? Well, if I want to identify myself securely, I can use both your public key AND my private key to encode the message, then you can read "OP is a fag" by applying my public key and your private key.

Questions?

[Anonymous No.11521374]

>>11521309
I'm so retarded, I got the symmetric example wrong, don't try to decode it by hand.