Holochain - Rebuttal of low-iq commonly posted FUD

[Anonymous No.11096808]

So, some low-iq faggot has been posting piss-poor uninformed FUD on almost every Holochain thread in Biz. Here is a rebuttal to that, direct from an admin at Holochain's official Telegram. Of course, it's probably over the head of that fag and he'll just go back to posting "feet!" and "wheelchair feminists" tomorrow.

>"have to pass KYC + credit check for every coin on holochain."
Holochain is a design pattern. There are no "coins" in Holochain.
KYC is necessary in Holo hosting for those who wish to redeem Holo Fuel from the reserve account.

"The whitepaper calls it the "membrane function." "
Holochain dApps can each choose the level or type of security, and permeability (or passability of data between dApps).
This is one function of the dApp (Distributed Application) Membrane.
There are many ways to implement security. KYC is only one of them where the risk of fraud is greater. It is also possible to use Distributed Public Key Infrastructure, Invitations, local Proof of Work, Proof of Stake, Proof of Presence, Time Proofs, and Proof of Reputation (amongst others). Holo hosting primarily uses Proof of Service when calculating how to pay hosts. This is only one example of the many ways a dApp membrane could be utilised.

"Holochain is ultimately based on trust, which means when you join a new subchain you have to have someone vouch for you."
I'm not sure what this person means by "subchain", but I assume it means a Holochain dApp being hosted on Holo. Having "someone vouch for you" or joining an app through invitation, is only of many ways a dApp author could implement security in their dApp. They could also, for example, use Proof of time spent within a chatroom as a method of allowing membership or a higher tier of membership within that chatroom.

[Anonymous No.11096833]

Continued:
"The only way to get money in holochain is through debt."
It's hard to get money in a design pattern, but I assume they actually mean being paid Holo Fuel for hosting in Holo.
All a Holo hoster has to do to get Holo Fuel is host. They will then have a positive balance

"Meaning you can spend money even if your balance is zero. You end up with negative balance and the other guy ends up with positive balance."
In almost all cases of users on the network, only a positive balance can be spent. If someone attempts a transaction that would send their Holo Fuel account into a negative balance, the transaction will be automatically rejected.

"If it was someone completely random with no KYC the debtor could just delete their account and make a new one over and over to get infinite money; a sybil attack."
And that's one reason why Holo hosts who plan to redeem from the Reserve account need to undergo KYC. Holo hosts who have a Credit Limit applied to their account due to their ability to host over a sustained period of time and generate enough Holo Fuel are a subset of Holo hosts. They will have to have an excellent hosting uptime and reputation on the network to be able to have a Credit Limit, and have a proven capacity to be able to pay back the Holo Fuel, primarily through continuing their hosting efforts.

"The membrane function prevents that from happening."
As mentioned earlier, membranes have many uses. This is not their primary usage as a dApp developer would be concerned with.

[Anonymous No.11096846]

Continued:
"You have to reveal who you are and prove you aren't a scammer. You have to prove that you are worthy of being issued credit. Its KYC or a credit check, however you want to call it."
In the case of the very small percentage of Holo users who would even want or be eligible to have a Credit Limit applied to their Holo Fuel balance, yes, KYC and ability to generate Fuel should be and is mandatory. This will likely be a miniscule minority of all people who will eventually use Holo Fuel (if I was to guess, I would say less than 0.1% of all Holo Fuel users and 0.001% of all Holo dApp users).

"You cant just show up with your **** in your hand like bitcoin."
Man, I'm not even touching that one. Literally and figuratively.

"Joining a coin on holochain requires social interaction."
If they mean using a Holochain dApp hosted on Holo, no, social interaction is not necessary unless of course the purpose of the dApp is to enable people to interact socially.

"So you better practice your firm handshake and looking them in the eye."
Only necessary if you plan on going to a Holochain meetup. If you do, please don't show up the way you described with Bitcoin.

>"have to either maintain your own personal blockchain history, or trust that someone else is storing it for you."
In Holochain, key personal data is encrypted and stored in your personal hashchain. This is backed up, again with deep encryption and only permissioned by yourself.

"If either party loses the chain data you lose all your money."
Holo Fuel balances will have a great deal of redundancy built in. Should one node that contains a person's fuel balance be offline, another will be queried. Should all the computers in the world hosting Holo go down at the same time, we are probably talking about next level global emergency status. In this case people could always use locally installed Holochain networks for disaster help and recovery.

[Anonymous No.11096854]

Final continued:
"It doesn't have guaranteed permanence like bitcoin."
I do not think that means what you think it means.

"If being a notary (a node that maintains records) ever becomes unprofitable they will dump your records and bail in a heartbeat."
All nodes maintain records, not just notaries. Notaries agree to run high availability servers, and must adhere to their agreement to keep these servers running. One of the Notaries' primary purpose is to prevent double spend of Holo Fuel in the shortest time possible.
>"have to pay fees to notaries any time you do anything."
A person could do almost anything on the network, except make a Holo Fuel transaction without a notary being paid.

"Its ethereum all over again."
It is impossible to run a sophisticated social network on Ethereum, let alone trading pictures of mutant cats.

"This incentivizes the notary to maintain and preserve the Distributed Hash Table."
Yes, the very minor fee that goes to notaries do compensate them for the service they provide.

"The DHT is a database that prevents people from double spending."
That is currently one function of the DHT, but in time there will likely be more uses for the DHT.

[Anonymous No.11096882]

Man, Biz used to be a great place. We found Antshares, Raiblocks, and so on, and many of us made nice gains out of those. But Biz has gone way downhill, with the influx of these low-iq, forever-poor newbie fags who don't have an ounce of the tech knowledge of the OGs here since the golden age of Biz.

[Anonymous No.11096888]

That's nice, but will it make me more money as an ERC20 or as holofuel?

t. give no fucks about tech, just want $

[Anonymous No.11096907]

>>11096888
good question, anon.My hunch is that the real price discovery won't start until holofuel launches, but I would be super-surprised if we don't see gains before holofuel launches. Good luck whatever you do...

[Anonymous No.11096997]

>>11096808
Let the brainlets FUD if anyone is stupid enough to believe it without researching let them be poor

[Anonymous No.11097020]

>>11096997
True anon, true. The ship will sail without them

[Anonymous No.11097041]

>>11096808
Thanks OP for the well laid out post. At this point though I'm pretty sure the fud coming regularily is done with the intent to accumulate or because of hatred of the team's philosophy. I don't think you have that many people left to convince or that would change their mind

[Anonymous No.11097068]

eth was getting fudded daily back when it was under $10, nothing new. people fud what they don't understand.

[Anonymous No.11097089]

>>11097041
Right! But as many of us have realized, even with the team's philosophy, what they are in effect creating (if they succeed) is a new pattern for the internet that will ensure that what happens to people like Alex Jones (of a very much opposed philosophy to the team) will not happen. They might be more like left libertarians than anything else, but they seem to be focusing on the battle of people vs technocracy rather than anything like the battle of left vs right (and I'm willing to overlook their social justice leanings for that)

[Anonymous No.11097134]

>>11096808
>>11096833
>>11096846
>>11096854
All these answers don’t make that design pattern seem very trustless or distributed at all. What are the advantage of using Holo to host your app instead of the traditional centralized web services?

[Anonymous No.11097178]

>>11096808
>shitbrane function
KYC only filters out weak poors. Holo will be fucked by cia niggers like everything else that lacks distributed global consensus.

[Anonymous No.11097240]

>>11097178
Weak man, just weak. Nicely put by someone else: "Holochain allows for transparency, accountability, and immutability, like blockchain, but without the inefficiencies of using one monolithic ledger that contains the history of all transactions in the network. Instead, Holochain is agent-centric, with each user having their own hash-chain of data. Transactions are countersigned by each party with cryptographic keys, then validated by peers in a distributed hash table — the same technology underlying BitTorrent."

[Anonymous No.11097311]

>>11097134
This question was anticipated and responded to in the Green Paper: "For hosting, AWS has many strengths, specifically efficiency, price, and risk reduction. Holo, while
competitive, differentiates itself primarily through distributing hosting services throughout the
network. This approach avoids the increasing concerns with issues of centralization:
● Network agents’ interactions are mediated by third parties.
● Centralized data storage and proprietary permissions make user data an easy target for
government audits; security breaches; surveillance by privileged actors; and undisclosed
sales, distribution, and manipulation.
● Ownership of user and network data is held by web platforms.
● Unreliable for zero-latency requirements where local synchronizing data is needed, e.g. IOT,
self-driving cars.
With Holo, those challenges are addressed by distribution, rather than centralization, of storage and
processing across the network. However current approaches to distributed services bring their own challenges:
● Consistency, Availability, and Partitioning
● Approaches using unified data sets creates two major inefficiencies:
○ High computational overhead for data-centric consensus.
○ Creates the additional challenge of having to manufacture universal time sequence
across disparate clocks and network delays.
Holochain addresses these challenges by providing an agent-centric, relativistic frame to establish
underlying data integrity such that applications can resolve the occasional collision of rival data sets by means appropriate to the social context of that app" https://files.holo.host/2018/03/Holo-Green-Paper.pdf

[Anonymous No.11097336]

>>11096907
I sold my stack before the recent dip, will buy in again when it goes lower. I'm certain it will pump again, just not sure how long to hold on for next time.

[Anonymous No.11097386]

you're a braver man than me. I rarely have the balls to sell my whole stack. Good luck

[Anonymous No.11097482]

>>11097178
>agent centric utopia
Those who have the resources to pass KYC fraudulently or otherwise, will do so. Those who cannot pass KYC for whatever reason will be barred from participation in the most important holochains (the ones that require KYC). This is a mere continuation of the status quo paradigm of government and corporate domination over weak poors.

[Anonymous No.11097672]

>>11096833
So the only way to get paid by hosting on the Holo network is to go through a centralized authority? That doesn't sound decentralized at all.

[Anonymous No.11097730]

imagine expecting anyone to read this blog post top fucking kek
it's a fucking erc-20 shitcoin without any working product, how about you start shilling it when they atleast have a testnet? holy shit pajeets these days

[Anonymous No.11097927]

>>11097068
What were some good examples of old ETH FUD?

[Anonymous No.11097968]

>>11097730
Misinfo, their tech does work and you can compile some sample dapps already

[Anonymous No.11097989]

>>11097927
2015 post:
I have 16000 eth, what will that be worth in 3 years?
>Somewhere between rubbish and a pile of dogshit.

[Anonymous No.11098043]

>>11097968
compile some sample dapps? their fucking testnet isn't even out yet, what are you on about?

[Anonymous No.11098103]

>>11096808
The dump yesterday revealed to the world the stuttering HOTheads that run this scam. Price has already tanked 15%. Once it breaks through the $0.001 resistance the panic will begin and small holders and speculators will begin to offload, with the whales already long gone. Once it shoots through the $0.00075 mark, unabated FEAR will ripe through all HOTheads. With all those who dumped their current accounts into this scam twitching at their arsehole continuously while refreshing binance. The $0.0005 mark will be met, the largest panic in history will ensue. The final deluded holoports will begin to go offline, and wagecuckers with their gender studies salaries loaded up in HOT will be left with it stuck in their wallet, unable to move it to binance to salvage some self respect. The price WILL tank at this point to sub $0.00025, and most probably sub ICO levels. From that day forward the deluded HOTheaded wagecucking gender studies feminists who bought this coin thinking it had fundamentals will go back to their jobs, with no money in their current accounts, to be made redundant by the next wave of pajeets arriving to undercut their wages. Deluded HOTheads will hold bags FOREVER, with no job, no money, and no crypto. I warned you HOTheads . There’s still time to get out. Sell NOW. Don’t be deluded, don’t be an HOThead .

[Anonymous No.11098715]

>>11096808
good thread op

[Anonymous No.11098829]

>>11098043
Learn to read

[Anonymous No.11099107]

>>11097672
No, you will be able to sell your holo fuel on Binance, and probably other exchanges by that point. The Holo reserve account is only if you want to redeem directly for fiat. It's your choice how you cash out.

[Anonymous No.11099169]

>>11096808
Here's the FUD that keeps me from buying, please refute:

>Whitepaper math still does not work out
>Consensus algo does not exist/work
>Because they haven't figured out the math or consensus yet the entire system can not be decentralized or secure and thereby can't ever actually achieve what they're looking to
>They hired a college student (who is now a math phd student) to fix their math, someone with no real world experience with these things who hasn't even proven he's able to get a math masters or phd yet
>Arthur Brock hasn't worked a real job in over 20 years and his LinkedIn is filled with failed "companies" he started most of which don't exist
>Multiple other team mates haven't had jobs for years or in some cases have never had a job before this
>Essentially, there is zero expertise or experience on the team (of any kind, let alone for their specific roles) yet they're trying to basically create a new Internet which cuts out corporations and government
>Whitepaper still not even finished, multiple sections are essentially TBD

If you haven't seen any of these before don't waste your time validating them, I've already validated them all. I'm just asking you to explain why they should be ignored. And why this project will be successful despite them.

Thanks

[Anonymous No.11100004]

>>11099169
OP only responds to criticism that he has deemed to be low-iq commonly posted FUD. Please resubmit a valid request.

[Anonymous No.11100034]

>>11096808
>So, some low-iq faggot has been posting piss-poor uninformed FUD on almost every Holochain thread in Biz.
Lol there's nothing better than seeing dumb shills get buttblasted. You're talking about the guy posting the credit check copypasta?
I read all those threads and he has never been answered properly, just endless hilarious ranting from the shills

[Anonymous No.11100583]

>>11099169
>If you haven't seen any of these before don't waste your time validating them, I've already validated them all.

Nice try, only takes a bit a research to know that everything you just said is bullshit.
It's some good OC FUD tho, props

[Anonymous No.11100593]

>>11100583
Oh, does the math check out now? Last I heard they had some college kid trying to make it make sense.

[Anonymous No.11100989]

Cute shilling thread you have here, unfortunately it only made my FUD stronger...hahahhahaaaa!

Reasons not to buy Holo today:


>boomers
>feet
>lesbians
>wheelchair feminists
>SJWs
>Traps
>not hiring white males unless they have to
>hippies
>think rich people are evil
>don't want you to get rich from investing in holo because "it's not about money"
>lead dev and the other guy are both faggots(maybe even together?)
>lead dev was the head of occupy wall street, gave speeches etc there
>lead dev pimped out his 5 year old daugher just to make a point about capitalism or something(taking it a bit too far there mate?)
>the structure of holochain is "feminine", not on purpose though feminine just turned out to be better and more robust according to lead dev
>use fancy buzzwords like "immune system" etc
>literally have to email the department of defense a selfie
>purchases exceeding 1,000,000 HOT require cavity search, including anal speculum
>cost of finger box not included, literally have to bring your own finger box
>you have to personally maintain your own chain(mandatory KYC ofc)
>your chain dies forever if you go offline, all data is lost since there's no global consensus
>HOT token supply is dynamic, can be created out of thin air in order to keep the price stable
>lead dev himself has said $1 is the absolute maximum the HOT token's price will ever be
>the HOT token is not even needed for using the chain
>Whitepaper math still does not work out
>Consensus algo does not exist/work
>They hired a college student (who is now a math phd student) to fix their math, someone with no real world experience with these things who hasn't even proven he's able to get a math masters or phd yet
>Arthur Brock hasn't worked a real job in over 20 years and his LinkedIn is filled with failed "companies" he started most of which don't exist
>Multiple other team mates haven't had jobs for years or in some cases have never had a job before this

[Anonymous No.11100998]

>>11100989

>Essentially, there is zero expertise or experience on the team (of any kind, let alone for their specific roles) yet they're trying to basically create a new Internet which cuts out corporations and government
>Whitepaper still not even finished, multiple sections are essentially TBD
>Someone needs to vouch for you or you can't even use the chain, you also need to spend arbitrary amount of time in a chat room
>Holo team will have all your personal info and ID (remember you had to send them your KYC) therefore the system is completely centralized

[Anonymous No.11101198]

>>11100998
>you also need to spend arbitrary amount of time in a chat room
holy shit, the fuck is getting more complex and deranged.
I'm honestly impressed at how bothered the same morons that shilled skycoin are that holo is going to kill all their shitcoins

[Anonymous No.11101226]

Is this convoluted shilling some sort of clever fud? op doesn't know shit about holo and is just making things more complicated than necessary.

[Anonymous No.11101357]

>>11101198
>I'm honestly impressed at how bothered the same morons that shilled skycoin are that holo is going to kill all their shitcoins
If you can't tell that it's largely the same pnd groups shiling and fudding both.....