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/biz/ - Business & Finance


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11013747 No.11013747 [Reply] [Original] [archived.moe]

Isn't bitcoin the biggest bubble of all coins?
Think about it - everything else has some utility promise (no matter how realistic). Bitcoin right now just... exists. The 'store of value' idea is an euphemism for buying in hope of selling to somebody else for a profit. That somebody else is supposed to buy for the same reason, and that's supposed to continue for eternity.

Bitcoin had promise - p2p cash, smart contracts (yes - that's why initial script had so many opcodes). All that is in the past.

Lightning Network is an absolute failure - the first whitepaper was published in February 2015. That's before ethereum launched. After almost 4 years it barely works:
https://medium.com/andreas-tries-blockchain/bitcoin-lightning-network-3-paying-for-goods-and-services-5d9c492b0eb2

>> No.11013771

It's the only coin that matters

>> No.11013809

>>11013747
>Lightning Network is an absolute failure
Just lol.
Anyone who believes this because some faggots on a Tibetan yak-trading forum told them so deserve to lose money.

>> No.11013811

>>11013771
boomer coin

>> No.11013836

>>11013811
Shitcoiner cope

>> No.11013898

>>11013771
Yep.
Listen to the tech crunch interview with Brad Garlinghouse of Ripple.
He says multiple times how bullish he is on bitcoin. That he himself owns it.

>> No.11013969

>>11013809
Getting info from /biz/ versus watching feel-good youtube vids and reading circle-jerking posts on social media sites.

Anyone believing that something will work with no proof that it actually works is an idiot.

>> No.11013985
File: 873 KB, 1208x863, cosby.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
11013985

>bitcoin has no use ca-

>> No.11013995

>>11013985
top fucking kek, is this real

>> No.11014000

>>11013985
That use case obviously didn't work, dumbass.

>> No.11014002

>>11013969
LN is live and anyone can use it already dumb cuck.

>> No.11014023

>>11014002
read the article I posted.
That's not 'working'. It's a disaster.

>> No.11014029

>>11013985
Well that just proved bitcoin didn't work.

>> No.11014033

>>11013985
Is that real? Man what a piece of shit. Is that human sack of sewage still free?

>> No.11014037

>>11014000
If the person doing it isn't an idiot it sure does work, faggot.

>> No.11014047
File: 58 KB, 744x622, vercash.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
11014047

>>11014023
>alpha software has flaws
imagine

>> No.11014058

>>11014047
>alpha software
>in development since Feb 2015
I'm glad you got why it sucks anon.

>> No.11014075
File: 86 KB, 400x711, 1*NV0SMp-MNrVs3zipg93aQw.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
11014075

Imagine average person trying to pay and getting errors like that.

>> No.11014102

>>11014058
>disrupting the oldest status quo on earth must be done overnight
stick to bcash

>> No.11014118

>>11014075
it's young, normies can barely use vanilla bitcoin, this is a simple and straightforward error message that is very clear to its target demographic (non-retards)

>> No.11014167
File: 38 KB, 400x402, 1981902_754743557939427_6066363747022400234_n.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
11014167

>>11013747
>The 'store of value' idea is an euphemism for buying in hope of selling to somebody else for a profit
just like gold, and when I look at gol's market cap I would rather hold btc than all those "ambitious" shitcoins with 0 security and pie-in-the-sky promises.

>b-but it was supposed to be a currency!!!!!!!!!!!!!
who cares? seriously? btc being a currency for everyday transactions won't raise its price too much because of the rise in velocity. In order for a coin to moon people have to hold it so the real circulating supply is low.

Explain to me in what situation would average joe has any business buying anything else than btc or xmr? 0 (zero) reasons.

>>11013771
>>11013836
this. Late comers and shitcoin bagholders think it's unfair because they invested in "promising tech" (aka. vaporware scams) and can't get over the fact that btc's market cap makes 100x more sense than all those overpriced shitcoins.

>> No.11014231

>>11014075
Imagine being this shortsighted.


If you saw AOL online in 1999 you also would've thought it looks like shit, completely unprofessional, and you couldn't fathom that the internet today would look how it does.


You think with time, Bitcoin related everything won't evolve? It already has. Think about how you had to purchase Bitcoins back in 2012. Meet up with some shady character irl off localbitcoins. Coinbase didn't exist till 2015 and now buying a bitcoin is as easy as buying something off Amazon.

Imagine being this shortsighted.....

>> No.11014291

>>11014118
there's nothing clear about that message. It's pretty much useless unless you have tools to analyze LN topology. Without them it's a confusing message equivalent to 'failure'.
>>11014167
>just like gold
gold has lots of industrial utility, cultural value and is robust itself. You can hide your gold coins in a hole to stash away some fraction of your wealth during war.
Bitcoin relies on global connectivity. A global war would kill it, as global internet would fragment.
Which means it competes directly with stocks and bonds. Stocks and bonds are more likely to survive a world war than bitcoin.
>>11014167
>Explain to me in what situation would average joe has any business buying anything else than btc or xmr?
Tell that to everyone who bought eth just to buy into an ico, to pay fees for token transfers, to buy a cryptokitty, a baseball card.
The only remaining to buy bitcoin to use it is to buy drugs.
>this. Late comers
lmao I bet you bought in 2017 and think that makes you an early adopter.
>>11014231
Bitcoin was created in 2009. It's not new. Every possible use case was already tried, almost all abandoned. Only speculation and drugs remain. There's zero untapped potential.
It's likely going to bubble for the last time if ETFs get approved, that's it. Nothing more on the horizon.

>> No.11014293

Am I the only one that thinks XMR will flip BTC in 3 years or so.

>> No.11014307

>>11014291
>there's nothing clear about that message. It's pretty much useless unless you have tools to analyze LN topology. Without them it's a confusing message equivalent to 'failure'.
Huh? It's incredibly obvious what it means.
>error thrown
>origin
>channel ID
wow that's so hard hurr durr how can we decrypt this confusing message we clearly need specialized tools to analyze this info dump

>> No.11014349

>>11014293
T. Holding 20x more XMR than btc
Feels good man

>> No.11014360

>>11014307
>Huh? It's incredibly obvious what it means.
>origin
>channel ID
which is useless information in itself. It doesn't give you any information how to fix that. It's only useful if you have tools to analyze the network topology.
"Fee too low". That's a useful information in itself. It tells you that if you increase your fee your payment is likely to go.

>> No.11014376

>>11014360
you misuse jargon like 'topology' in an effort to sound smart but you're clueless
it gives you the details you need, yes you as a "normie" end-user don't care about it but so what? it's a clear error message, far more useful than "something went wrong :(" with a memory address that Windows 10 gives literal normie end users

>> No.11014419

>>11014349
I mean think about it, XMR has privacy and fungibility as well as massive first mover advantage, it's like what bitcoin was trying to be when it first released.

>> No.11014426

>>11014376
>you misuse jargon like 'topology' in an effort to sound smart
You just did literally that. Do you know what topology means? You have to look at the attempted path to see what could go wrong.
the error was so complex a LN dev wrote an article about it
https://medium.com/@robban_69827/lightning-network-routing-fud-and-zombies-776b8238e66b
and he diagnosed it by, guess what, analyzing the network's topology.

>> No.11014430

holy fuck @ this shitcoin bagholder cope LOL. that btc dominance at 55% is doing wonders for ops butthole.

>imagine being a single digit iq parasite no brained single cell insect like op to think a new asset class with extremely low deflationary supply WHICH THE GOV CANT SEIZE FROM YOU to have no value.

you absolute retard deserve to stay poor. p2p and privacy networks are the only coins which will matter in the end. offshore moolah wont buy your meme plattforms and dapps you cuck.

>> No.11014433

>>11014426
>You just did literally that
what are you talking about?
I know you are but what am I
are we 5 years old?
this board is full of morons

>> No.11014441
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11014441

>>11014118
Even if LN achieves 0 bugs and works as promised - what is the fucking result? Stacys have to start making links with stores that they want go shopping to?
If you have to do ANYTHING besides keeping your private key safe and scanning a QR code to do a transaction, your development approach is overcomplicated and a fucking failurel

>> No.11014457

>>11014430
>extremely low deflationary supply
BTC inflation rate is 3.88%
You're the perfect example of someone who mindlessly buys into a meme.

>> No.11014461

>>11014102
this x100 lmao. how deluded are these shitcoin cucks? holy fuck the cringe

>> No.11014481
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11014481

>>11014291
>gold has lots of industrial utility
lmao, go and check how much of that utility impacts the total gold market cap and you will quickly realize it's a meme,

>cultural value
who said btc can't have cultural value especially in this day and age? you're thinking like a boomer desperate to defend the status quo

>You can hide your gold coins in a hole to stash away some fraction of your wealth during war.
try escaping from the airport with that shit lol
btc>gold>pile of shit>altcoins

>muh war
yea man, it's gonna happen any day, tanks and machine guns are gonna be flying around next to your house, and we're going back the to caveman times.
what if a meteor hits the planet? are you gonna stick to your gold/stocks/eth? lmao

>Tell that to everyone who bought eth just to buy into an ico, to pay fees for token transfers, to buy a cryptokitty, a baseball card.
100% scam and mania driven utlity and now it's going to the trash where it belongs

>The only remaining to buy bitcoin to use it is to buy drugs.
no, its utility is to beat inflation by putting your money into something with the best security in the entire crypto market right now and a fixed supply. period.
>b-but how is that a store of value if it went down 80%
wow, a new asset class is volatile and not distributed evenly, wow, really makes you think
gold is still lower than 7 years ago without even counting inflation

>lmao I bet you bought in 2017
*WRONG*

>Every possible use case was already tried, almost all abandoned. Only speculation and drugs remain. There's zero untapped potential.
It's likely going to bubble for the last time if ETFs get approved, that's it. Nothing more on the horizon.
except it's a good gold alternative with a fraction of its market cap

I'm sure your eth or whatever shitcoin you're into have any upside lmao, enjoy your sharding 2020 (aka never), this shit doesnt scale or isn't secure and even if it was no one serious wants to use it for anything.

>> No.11014492

>>11014457
you have to go back. 21m fixed cap. see you at 130k$ per coin next halvening you insect. screencapped.

>> No.11014494

>>11014430
AOL was once the dominant internet service provider. Let that sink in.

>> No.11014506

>>11014167
>Explain to me in what situation would average joe has any business buying anything else than btc or xmr?

Micro transactions. Neither coin can do those. You need something like nano or eos.

Smart contracts. Neither coin can do those either.

>> No.11014508 [DELETED] 

>>11014457
i forgot pic related. plebbit scum. you are probably a vechain holder topkek

>> No.11014539

>>11014506
>micro tx
when will this coffee meme die? nobody needs onchain tx to pay for your soya latte you hipster faggot cuck.

>average joe needing smart contracts
uwotm8?

>> No.11014544

>>11014231
This is like if AOL were still the same pile of shit in 2009 as it was when it started. Bitcoin hasnt changed a bit in a decade. People tried to change it, everyone threw a fit, and the change got called Bitcoin Cash.

People are so delusional they think any update or improvement whatsoever makes it no longer bitcoin. As soon as lighting network comes out people will say thats not real bitcoin, and it will become Bitcoin Lightning or some shit.

>> No.11014555
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11014555

>>11014457
i forgot pic related. plebbit scum. i bet you hold vechain topkek

>> No.11014581
File: 14 KB, 558x614, 664.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
11014581

>>11014544
>As soon as lighting network comes out people will say thats not real bitcoin
thinking 2nd layer is the same as changing block size

>> No.11014600

>>11013985
>>11014000
>>11014029
>Can’t even use bitcoin to hide wealth from spiteful bitches
What’s the fucking point? Is there ANY way to hide wealth without it being eaten up by inflation?

>> No.11014612

>>11014539
They need it in venezuela. Its looking pretty tempting in Turkey and Iran too. They will need it everywhere someday if the world keeps going down the shitter like it has been lately.

But by microtransactions I meant more like 1/10,000th of a penny. Machine to machine stuff. Tiny rebalances on decentralized exchanges every 10 seconds. Buying big data off the internet of things. Stuff like that. If you think this sounds farfetched its only because up until now there has been no way to effectively do microtransactions. Its unironically a new paradigm.

>> No.11014613

>>11014539
>nobody needs onchain tx to pay
Who the fuck are you or Blockstream to judge my paid transmissions as "SPAM".
Miners choose how big blocks they want, more tx's, more revenue.

>> No.11014617

op is a new coiner who feel too hard for muh technology and innovation
friendly reminder your shitcoin promising the world will never get 1/10th of the way down its road map

bitcoin is the most powerful and secure network in the world. fact.

>> No.11014624

>>11014581
It is. Changing blocksize is meaningless and trivial. I have no idea why everyone freaked out about it. It obviously needs to happen.

>> No.11014628

>>11013747
Listen I genuinely care about about Anons financial well being. Its hard as shit to get ahead in life now, not just working 9-5 for the rest of your life. The sooner you start saving the sooner you can get ahead in life.

Chainlink is a meme started by 4chan (an infamous trolling board) to lead people to financial ruin. This is NOT A JOKE. Don't let your saved wealth be thrown away over night.

Vitalik Buterin the creator of ethereum said himself the days of making x100 or x1000 are over, that right the guy who created the second most popular crypto said himself those days are over.

Now 4chan is trying to get people to lose even more money after the December/January bloodbath. Smart money already exited the crypto world. Crypto is basically a highly specialized database, companies don't need this. They will just create their own private blockchains. There is no need for crypto chainlink isn't even needed to run the nodes. Think XRP when you think chainlink. The company ripple (smartcontracts) is doing well but the coin XRP(chainlink) isn't even needed for the companies technology.

Considering what Vitalik said "The days of making x100 or x1000 returns are over." Chainlink needs a 399900% increase in price over the next couple of months to reach $1000 this is ludicrous. Don't fall for it, chainlink its a meme to fuck you over.

Consider this for chainlink at current price to reach $1 you need an increase of 700% or a 233% increase every month until EOY.

This is a 4chan meme to siphon money out of the hands of the already vulnerable.

>> No.11014630

the store of value is a quite important utility, any bilionaire with a brain has some stored in it in case of a dark hour, like gov robbing them, all of the people that had their life ruined to some law related misfortune would had their lives saved had they stored just few mil in btc

>> No.11014643

>>11014494
aol was a private company not a decentralized public ledger

>> No.11014661

>>11014506
bitcoin can do smart contracts and has been for years...
as for micro transactions just use doge

just face it bro your bags are worthless learn to fucking invest Lmao

>> No.11014678

>>11014481
>yea man, it's gonna happen any day, tanks and machine guns are gonna be flying
you didn't get the point. If war doesn't happen stocks are infinitely better store of value. Gold has advantage because it retains some value when everything collapses.
Bitcoin has zero properties that make it a good store of value. It's worse than stocks during peace and worse than literally everything during major war.
>100% scam and mania driven utlity
If that was true there would be few transactions left today. Instead it still remains slightly congested. Ethereum has more adoption than bitcoin since half of 2017.
>gold is still lower than 7 years ago without even counting inflation
Yes, as gold is a horrible store of value during peace.
>no one serious wants to use it for anything.
80% of innovation happens on ethereum, 20% on other platforms. 0% on bitcoin.
ICOs? Smart contracts? Supply chains? Security tokens? DEX? Digital collectibles? Anonymity? Nothing connected to bitcoin.

All you're doing is confirming my first post. You hold bitcoins because you hope to dump it higher. Same story for everyone else.

>> No.11014680

>>11014630
i simply dont get retard like op. i think it must be poorfag cope to buy shitcoins because he knows he wont make it with his lunchmoney..nobody can be this low iq

btc is the longest most secure network on mother earth. where will offshore money flow? into btc or any off your meme plattforms or dapps with zero use case and adoption. cant wait for vitaliks premined nocap shitcoin to go to double digits.

listen anons. if its not mineable, if its preprinted. ITS A SCAM.

>> No.11014681

>>11014624
If it is so meaningless, why Blockstream trolls fight even 2mb?
https://twitter.com/adam3us/status/636410827969421312
Truth is out there. They want to destroy the original bitcoin (= p2p cash).

>> No.11014684

>>11014661
>just use doge, and wait 10 minutes for it go through

Thats another thing those 2 cant do, fast transactions.

>> No.11014698

>>11014617
>friendly reminder your shitcoin promising the world will never get 1/10th of the way down its road map
and even if they did they would still be waaayyyy overpriced at their current valuations, if this market wasn't irrational and tied to btc I would short all the scams like eos, tron, and overpriced shitcoins like eth, neo, and pretty much everything else

>>11014506
micro transactions are not a thing that's risk-averse, you can use any centralized system for this shit, and by the way I have yet to meet a person who would ever need that but ok

>Smart contracts. Neither coin can do those either.
if you believe in smartcontracts invest in chainlink not fucking ethereum with its $20B valuation lol

>> No.11014708

>>11013747
Most of these other more promising use cases dont actually have an effect on price. BTC could be used for everyday payments by billions of people, it would have no effect on price. 'Store of Value' is collective delusion but without a dividend, burn or lockup mechanism, it's pretty much the only reason any cryptoasset appreciates in value.

>> No.11014713

>>11014708
>without a dividend
that's what proof of stake is for.

>> No.11014717

>>11014698
Chainlink is retarded pie in the sky nonsense. It doesnt even work and probably never will. Eos and Ethereum work today.

>> No.11014726
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11014726

>>11014708
>BTC could be used for everyday payments by billions of people, it would have no effect on price.

>> No.11014732

>>11014713
pos aka a straight ponzi. if its not mineable, its a shitcoin.

>> No.11014751

>>11014732
PoW:
holders pay miners every year billions
PoS:
users pay stakers every year millions, possibly billions

PoW is a form of findom with Jihan as the dominatrix

>> No.11014757

>>11014612
>Buying big data off the internet of things
add this to the zoomer boss copypasta

>> No.11014772

>>11014678
>you didn't get the point. If war doesn't happen stocks are infinitely better store of value. Gold has advantage because it retains some value when everything collapses.
>Bitcoin has zero properties that make it a good store of value. It's worse than stocks during peace and worse than literally everything during major war.
that's just your opinion, doesn't mean anything

>Instead it still remains slightly congested.
yea, by ponzi games and collectibles, muh decentralized supercomputer, muh revolution

>icos
scams

>smart contracts
like I said, invest in CL if you believe in SC not fucking platforms to execute them

>supply chains
scam/caporware/trash/meme/chink scams

>dex
biggest meme of 2017 and 2018, no one needs that shit for anything, it's slow, not user friendly, and most of them aren't even decentralized because the cuck ceo decides what's gonna be listed anyway

>digital collectibles
fidget spinners/scams/trash

>anonymity
XMR

Eth is an overpriced junk

>>11014717
LMAO then explain to me what's the point of tamperproof smart contracts if it still relies on a centralized data delivery
Eos is a centralized shit and ethereum is a congested trash
both should be 0

>> No.11014827

>>11014772
You can do a lot with smartcontracts without an oracle being present. Augur for instance uses real world events to determine outcomes. The users themselves become the oracle. Its decentralized and guaranteed to work.

>> No.11014854

>>11014772
>that's just your opinion, doesn't mean anything
>I don't know how to answer obvious truths

>yea, by ponzi games and collectibles
>scams
>scam/caporware/trash/meme/chink scams
>biggest meme of 2017 and 2018
>fidget spinners/scams/trash
>everything actually in demand and not possible on btc is a scam
pathetic levels of cope.
>XMR
which is a different coin than btc.

>> No.11014867

>>11013747
>The 'store of value' idea is an euphemism for buying in hope of selling to somebody else for a profit. That somebody else is supposed to buy for the same reason, and that's supposed to continue for eternity.

Not really.... the past 6 months I have been buying bitcoin is not to hold it hoping it appreciates in value, but to use it for buying other other cryptos.

I mean an asset that you can send to any exchange, hold privately, and sell to anyone anywhere in itself is a pretty valuable idea.

>> No.11014894

>>11014867
why would you hold btc for that, that stopped making sense in 2016. Hold usdt for that, usdt pairs have more liquidity for almost all pairs.

>> No.11014905

>>11014827
>The users themselves become the oracle. Its decentralized and guaranteed to work.
thta's like calling 15 pajeets making separate phone calls a decentralized oracle network.
Augur is a meme with 0 utility so its quasi-oracle is good enough I guess

Seriously are you from reddit?
I feel like most people here have realized that dapps are a meme and there is no need for them do be decentralized. (it's the equivalent of plumbers having their own websites during the dotcom bubble), or blockchains for dentists etc

>>11014854
sorry I don't have time and energy to explain why icos are scams, why collectibles are a 5minutes fad and why supply chains are a meme and will never create any demand for their respective tokens, if you think otherwise I guess we end the discussion here, because I feel a strong reddit vibe, they like this shit, eth, ven, dapps and all that onions shit

>> No.11014920

>>11014894
its easiest for me. I only buy through coinbase and liquidity is not an issue for me.

>> No.11014939

>>11014854
im now 100% sure you are from plebbit and hold vechain.

kys

>> No.11014941
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11014941

>>11014905
>why collectibles are a 5minutes fad
>t. brainlet boomer
people are collecting things for literally as long as humanity exists and that's not going to change. Are you even aware of cs go skins?
https://medium.com/wax-io/gaming-skin-trading-a-50-billion-industry-ripe-for-blockchain-disruption-2e9bcd01bf55

>> No.11015066

>>11014905
I agree that most dapps are stupid. A few are good, mostly because they would be illegal if centralized.

Augur would be considered gambling and wouldnt work, at least at scale. Predictit is the closest centralized comparison and it limits you to 850$ per bet.

Im convinced bitbay or syscoin or something similar will become the next Silkroad. Drug marketplaces keep getting shut down. If you could decentralize them they would be invincible. Instead everyone is selling hoodies and fidget spinners on them cause they are too scared to break bad.

Upfiring would work if they would just release a working product and prove they arent a scam. Almost everyone who torrents has a VPN at this point so they are clearly ok with paying to pirate. Increased file availability for a fraction of a cent would be a good deal in my book.

>> No.11015083
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11015083

>>11014751
But anon, don't you want Jihanna to dominate you?

>> No.11015163

>>11014661
>bitcoin can do smart contracts and has been for years...
interesting, why doesn't anyone develop them then?

>> No.11015183

The idea of bitcoin replacing cash is funny to me. You have a bunch of unsuccessful zoomers, and capital anarchists basically trying to convince the rest of the successful world to trade their class in life. A millionaire can trade a million dollars for 20 bitcoins under the new system at $50,000 a bitcoin, just so they can be lorded over by someone who bought 1,000 for a few hundred dollars. Even better. Why would the 38 year old boomer whos making $80k give up everything hes worked for just to be a serf in the new system? Store of value is just a meme to dump bitcoin bags on the next person. I want cash. I dont want bitcoin.

>> No.11015198

>>11015163
People tried, but Core developers killed all attempts.
"Several years ago, there was a conflict between Counterparty and bitcoin developers. Counterparty was using Bitcoin’s OP_RETURN function which enabled anyone to store any type of data in transactions. By using OP_RETURN Counterparty was able to operate as the first decentralized digital asset exchange using blockchain technology.

A few months after the Counterparty developers started using OP_RETURN, bitcoin developers decreased the size of OP_RETURN from 80 bytes to 40 bytes. The sudden decrease in the size of the OP_RETURN function stopped networks launched on top of bitcoin from operating properly."
https://coinjournal.net/vitalik-buterin-never-attempted-launch-ethereum-top-bitcoin/

The amount of sabotage that occured in bitcoin is a sad story.

>> No.11015207
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11015207

This shit had more adoption than BTC.
BTC only has decentralization going for it, which is dubious at best.
Going to 0 isn't impossible.

>> No.11015210

>>11015198
So it can't actually run smart contracts... I accept the reason why as this kind of manipulative intervention. What, in your view, is the future for BTC itself? Why did they kill smart contracts?

>> No.11015220
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11015220

>>11015210
bitcoin was sabotaged to create demand for blockstream sidechains.
Only the sabotage part of the plan worked.

>> No.11015233

>>11015220
That makes sense. So what's next in your view? Bitcoin Cash seems to be going in the right direction, but all of its backers are quite obviously scammers and charlatans, so I'm not sure how to feel.

>> No.11015287
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11015287

>>11013747
>reddit screenshot
no seriously what happened to /biz/, when did it die?

>> No.11015310

>>11015233
>So what's next in your view?
Either ethereum scales in time and becomes a global platform, or it doesn't and use cases move to permissioned blockchains. There's a clear demand for tokenized securities (stocks, bonds, real estate) programmable with smart contracts. They are going to happen.
I hope ethereum wins, because government-controlled blockchains would be a horrible cyberpunk dystopia. Very efficient, but giving governments absolute control.

I see Bitcoin as having potential for one last bubble enabled by ETFs but that's it. Then it starts to wither away.
>>11015287
what's your point? r/bitcoin is pretty representative of average bitcoin holder today.

>> No.11015398
File: 94 KB, 701x599, 1525954663052.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
11015398

>>11015233
Most BTC holders are just still not aware what is going on.
The speculants that sold BCH immediately after the fork are the ones who are defending LN to their graves and they repeat the same mantras so they and eventually others would believe it:
>Bitcoin can't scale on chain
>Big blocks mean decentralization
>Building a new layer is inevitable
>Using LN is simple, everyone will do it
>etc
People who hold both forks are open minded and are able to at least question the validity of these claims. People who sold their BCH will keep defending these no matter what.

>> No.11015429

>>11013747
bitcoin is our only solid attempt at digital store of value
thats worth a lot in this digital age

>> No.11015461

>>11015220
>bitcoin was sabotaged to create demand for blockstream sidechains.
This. It's the only reason why I think BCH isn't a complete scam. The bitcoin developers could improve the current system very much but they would rather keep it a shit show to make more money for themselves.

>> No.11015492
File: 250 KB, 1080x486, 20180910_000338.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
11015492

>>11015310
>There's a clear demand for tokenized securities (stocks, bonds, real estate) programmable with smart contracts
being this deluded lol. there is more demand for offshore money which will flow into the most secure and longest digital store of value network on mother earth. you disgust me with your plebbit mentality anon. kys or get educated or live on but stay forever poor.

>> No.11015505

>>11015287
Its mostly asshurt /v/edditors and /g/tards fudding.

>> No.11015538

>>11015492
>there is more demand for offshore money
Demand for tokens is at least 100x larger, but even that money is going to flow mostly into eth with proof of stake due to dividends, and a smaller portion into private coins for anonymity.
What do you think 'offshore money' is? It's in yield generating assets, not money in the bank. They are not going to buy something that inflates away each year due to PoW (or dies), but something that creates income. That's PoS.

>> No.11015570
File: 12 KB, 258x245, 354deaa3770912621bb816da070346ab.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
11015570

>>11015538
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA.

>being this new
either that or im getting super baited. either way, thanks for the keks.

>> No.11015607

>>11015398
Open-minded? Naive. You really think forever increasing block sizes is a tenable solution to the scaling problem?

>> No.11015631

>>11015538
> Das rite. I'm going to store my narco billions on dragonchain or omg. top kek
Otherwise you make sense.
BUt they are more likely to drop it into rental property or say appl stocks.
I'm even doubtful they would store it in monero. Transact yes, store and hold unlikely.

>> No.11015645

>>11015631
>narco billions on dragonchain or omg.
???
I literally wrote it's either eth or an anonymous coin. Once eth goes PoS staking generates income. Only an idiot would rather long-term hold btc at that point.

>> No.11015692

>>11015645
PoS is bitbean or ark grade idea.
It will wreck eth's reputation more than cryptokitties did.
5% eth p.a., when one skeleton spergout on twitter cuts your funds in half overnight, that's not going to happen with real estate.

>> No.11015719

>>11015645
yes. narco billions will flow into vitaliks premined nocapped inflationary pos ponzi LMAO. get a load of this brainlet.

we have more millionares worldwide than btc exist. you are going to kys next halvening. remember this.

>> No.11015744

>>11015719
Isn't XMR a better choice for this?

>> No.11015772
File: 610 KB, 1080x1494, 20180910_003128.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
11015772

>>11015744
in terms of roi from here on it is but xmr has no fixed cap. its more useful for tx than to store wealth longterm

>> No.11015799

>>11015772
Won't XMR's supply be lower than BTC until 2050 though?

>> No.11015801

>>11015692
PoW is an absurdity with no future. No high btc price prediction takes it into account.
image from 'analysis' >>11015492 predicts $96378/btc in 5 years. That's with a block reward of 6.25btc per block = 52560 btc a year = $31B needed just to support the price due to mining.
They completely ignored these enormous money outflows. Their analysis is complete trash.
"This figure could rise to 7.7GW before the end of 2018—accounting for almost half a percent of the world's electricity consumption."
https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2018/05/new-study-quantifies-bitcoins-ludicrous-energy-consumption/
$96k/btc after one halving results in ~10% of world's energy usage going to bitcoin mining. It's not going to happen, the capacity simply doesn't exist, and more importantly there's nobody to fund it indefinitely.
>>11015719
ethereum would already flip bitcoin if they didn't scrap hybrid casper and 80% reward reduction. Flippening happens in at most one year after full PoS goes live, bitcoin 'store of value' meme dies, bitcoin collapses and that's going to be it.

>> No.11015804

>>11013747

Yep. Newfags might not be aware - did you know Bitcoin was originally going to have smart contracts available? Occasionally a Btc maximalist will pop up claiming it still will, but that's straight up delusional. So yeah, Bitcoin really was intended to be the one chain to rule them all. Proper scaling solutions, a privacy layer (like an on-chain Monero), all that good shit. Deluded fucks like myself stayed out of alts and Ethereum due to the above and while we made money sure, it's all a lie. Bitcoin was deliberately gimped by (((them))) into a worthless piece of shit that has no real world application and never will. No, I'm not telling you to buy Bch, that's a scam too.

>> No.11015815

>>11015744
That's what we are trying to debunk ITT.
XMR is the best as transaction currency.
But will these guys just hold the funds in longterm instead of cashing out into fiat?

>> No.11015837

>>11015801
thats cute. so now we all can agree you made this thread to cope because your premined nocap pos vitalik ponzi broke major support today? see you at double digits anon. kys you reddit scum

>> No.11015841

>>11015815

Cash out to fiat or a stablecoin, which is already what they do. They're not hoping for moonlambos, they want to get their drug money out.

>> No.11015854

>>11015837
I'm warning smart anons. Brainlets like you are going to sink with the ship, I'm fine with that. Anyone who doesn't see that PoW coins have no future is an idiot.

>> No.11015860

>>11013747
If you don't see the value of being able to travel internationally with millions of dollars that is perfectly secure and transfer it to whoever the fuck you want no questions asked then you are a brainlet.

>> No.11015869

>>11015860
every crypto does that, and only zcash is fully fungible

>> No.11015899

>>11015801
>$31B needed
which aint shit for the worlds biggest invention since fire, an asset with a fixed tiny supply the gov cant seize from you.
>10% energy usage
which aint shit for the worlds biggest invention since fire, an asset with a fixed tiny supply the gov cant seize from you.

you are the biggest brainlet of the week anon. imagine putting this much trust into a pedo communist sperg lmao. ethereum wont be even in the top 5 a year from now on. screencap this you deluded retard.

>> No.11015911

>>11015837

No points made to contradict op. No reason, no logic, just "kys redditfag REEEEEEEEE! Btc to da moon!". Btc is truly dead. Everything he said is 100% correct, do you seriously think Bitmain is going to build a Dyson Sphere to keep mining it in in a few years? Absolutely retarded. Hoping to get one more bull run to dump the last of the stack on suckers at a high price & that's it. Ethereum might be a shitshow, but it's not the only game in town. XMR is the currency, something else will take over as the smart contract & dapp platform. Shit that's actually scalable. And if nothing is, then crypto is over anyway.

>> No.11015913

>>11015607
I am 100% percent certain that with the current pace of technological development we will have complete abundance of data storage and bandwidth. Will you actually argue this? And it's already now more than enough to provide payments to 25x more people that clogged up BTC in January.

>> No.11015917

>>11015854
Who will compute the transactions if we all just stack our eth?
Money skeleton's supercomputer? Might as well switch to ripple then.
PoW is (currently) the only way to achieve decentralization.

>> No.11015923

>>11015917
>Who will compute the transactions if we all just stack our eth?
That's the point of staking eth, you generate blocks on your node(s)

>> No.11015924

>>11015869
>every crypto does that

>what is liquidity
>what is the most secure and longest network on the planet
no shitcoin will ever beat those 2.

>> No.11015926
File: 50 KB, 852x480, e58c7fb545451bffaed6c3a21dd5d54e.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
11015926

>>11015899
>biggest invention since fire

The absolute fucking state of cryptos.

>> No.11015983

>>11015926
I swear these people are indistinguishable from a religious cult.

Absolutely no concession to even the consideration that they MIGHT be wrong about this whole thing.

>> No.11015994

>>11015923
Well we will see IF that even happens.
How significant will be the staking pools.
And whether the basement nerd with 32eth will be incentivized to run a node nonstop for 1.6 eth per annum.

>> No.11016010

>>11015983
I understand that a person shilling one specific crypto behaves like a cult member because he's obviously holding bags.
But everyone has to understand eventually that some form of crypto will be the actual future. Why the fuck would you need banks if crypto just works?

>> No.11016062

>>11015899
peak delusion. You don't realize how absurdly high 10% of world's electricity use is. Two Germanies electricity production only for bitcoin, sustained for years.
>>11015924
>what is liquidity
ethereum already has about 50% of bitcoin's volume
>what is the most secure and longest network on the planet
PoS is more secure because you need to obtain most of staking coins, which is almost impossible. PoW can be attacked with external resources
>>11015994
If a node requires 150W of power, it uses 1314 kWh in a year. Which means <$200 for most of the world.
A pc good enough for a node can be bought for $300. At a 10% yearly amortization (or interest) that costs $30/year.
So as long as 1.6 eth > $230 it's a profitable enterprise.

There are going to be staking pools, but I think anyone with non-trivial amounts is going to use his own node, especially because of correlated inactivity penalty

>> No.11016111

>>11016062
>You don't realize how absurdly high 10% of world's electricity use is
Scarcity of energy is an illusion, don't buy it. Thw whole world can run on nuclear for thousands of years and fusion needs to be mastered in that time.
PoS is still an unproven concept, I'd be very skeptical about it.

>> No.11016158

Bitcoin will have to address the lack of transaction finality if it ever wants mainstream adoption. Unfortunately the developers and community don't care about it at all.

Right now it exists only as a way to transfer billions of dollars from suckers to miners and electric companies. At this point the amount of money required to secure the network is greater than the real payment volume.

>> No.11016164
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11016164

>>11016062

>> No.11016195

>>11016062
Bitcoin mining will eventually require free electricity to be profitable, so the only sources will be waste power.
This is the mining shakeout.

>> No.11016247

>>11016010
Banks do a lot more than just facilitate transactions.

Like hold, protect, and insure your money.

How much crypto has been lost or stolen, with absolutely no recourse, over the last few years?

I'm not saying crypto can't or won't inevitably succeed or be useful in some capacity. But there are so many doofuses in this space who have entire complex narratives mapped out for what will "definitely" happen with crypto, and go into full autistic screeching when you point out the massive problems with crypto as it exists today.

>> No.11016305

>>11016247
No crypto can be stolen from you unless you allow people to steal it from you, that's the point. Also, insurances of crypto can be created with DAOs

>> No.11016318

>>11016305
And yes, DAOs are completely safe with no history of problems, lmao

>> No.11016355

>>11013747
so... what does it do???

>> No.11017131
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11017131

>>11015492
>that chart

>> No.11017227

>>11016247
>How much have you lost?

200 Btc in my old mining wallet that through a set of shitty circumstances wound up in a trash heap. Didn't care at the time as it was worth nothing. Had a couple Btc left over, that's all. Cryptos are just a highly unstable technology that might not go anywhere. Regardless of how shit banks are normies are never going to use it in the current state.

>> No.11017248

>>11016111

Sure Bitmain shill, you'll invent fusion just to keep mining Btc, topkek! The sheer delusion!

>> No.11017262
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11017262

>>11017131
ok nevermind i just read the report. Its actually pretty logical. I think i need to go buy some suicide insurance.

https://research.bloomberg.com/pub/res/d37g1yWebn9LbRbS09rquSuSoDQ

>> No.11017781

>>11015492
based and redpilled

>> No.11017822
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11017822

>>11015801
Proof of stake is just an obscured PoW.

(1/3) http://www.truthcoin.info/blog/pow-and-mining/

(2/3) http://www.truthcoin.info/blog/pow-cheapest/

(3/3) http://www.truthcoin.info/blog/pos-still-pointless/

>> No.11017978
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11017978

>>11015492
>that image

>> No.11017984

>>11013747
>Isn't bitcoin the biggest bubble of all coins?
It's the biggest bubble of all time

>> No.11018309
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11018309

>>11014506
The average joe has no money so it doesn't matter.

Also joes will go LN, rich will go on chain. If you don't like that, become rich. All other forms of money but Bitcoin are dead.

>> No.11018345
File: 750 KB, 1304x752, flippening.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
11018345

>>11015837
This is basically all what these "Bitcoin is dead" threads amount to. It's just bagholders dreaming with a flippening.

>>
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