tfw I owe more in tax than the current value of my crypto. What do /biz/?

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Anonymous Fri Jul 13 06:08:55 2018 No.10252164 [Reply] [Original]

tfw I owe more in tax than the current value of my crypto. What do /biz/?

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 13 06:09:36 2018 No.10252168 >>10252164 How?

Anonymous Fri Jul 13 06:13:18 2018 No.10252181
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>>10252168
Because the tax was calculated by the value of my crypto at 31.12.2017, at the fucking peak. I never sold and with todays prices my folie worth is less than the tax I owe. Fuck!

Anonymous Fri Jul 13 06:13:26 2018 No.10252183

>>10252164

Nice FUD. Literally the worst that can happen (not what some stupid calculator tells you) is that you have 0 cost basis and have to pay 40% of your total cash out amount (highest tax bracket assuming you made bank and cashed out hundreds of thousands of dollars).

Some of the stupid online calculators are broken and don't subtract your sold coins so you end up with that issue.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 13 06:16:53 2018 No.10252193 >>10252183 Is this true? Cause I'm also panicking about owing more taxes than I currently have in crypto and piling penalties if I don't pay them

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 13 06:18:30 2018 No.10252199 >>10252181 If you never sold you don't owe any taxes???

Anonymous Fri Jul 13 06:20:56 2018 No.10252209
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fucking retarded good goy burgers and their taxes.
You're supposed to keep your crypto a secret and when it's time to cash out you fuck off from your shithole of a country.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 13 06:22:11 2018 No.10252215 >>10252193 its impossible to have to pay more tax than you have worth you fucking retards. YOU PAY TAX OVER THE PROFITS MADE, IF YOU HAVE NO PROFITS YOU DONT PAY TAXES. IF YOUR CRYPTO DEVALUED YOU PAY LESS TAX. YOU INCREDIBLE FUCKING MONGRELS.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 13 06:22:14 2018 No.10252217 File: 7 KB, 230x219, sdfsdg.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>10252183 I can assure you this is no fud. I bought for about $6000, at 31.012.2017 it was worth about $150 000, now its worth $30 000. I owe $33 000 in taxes,

Anonymous Fri Jul 13 06:22:20 2018 No.10252220

>>10252193

Yes they are treated as capital gains unless you are paid in crypto (for a legit job) in crypto. In this case they require you to pay income tax.

That's it. The IRS wants you to make an honest attempt, that's it. They aren't going to go ape shit over you unless you do something hilariously stupid like cash out 30-40k+ and go "dunno lol" when they ask where that money came from.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 13 06:23:01 2018 No.10252225 >>10252164 Do you mean fortune tax? Because you don't pay taxes on crypto unless you've chased out, or your fortune is high enough.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 13 06:23:25 2018 No.10252228 >>10252199 I did som trading back and forth

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 13 06:24:12 2018 No.10252237 >>10252217 How do you owe taxes if you didn't sell?

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 13 06:24:53 2018 No.10252239 >>10252215 False! The taxes I owe are for 2017. Whatever happened with the price this year don't have any impact on that

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 13 06:25:15 2018 No.10252241 >>10252228 Trading on sites like Binance?

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 13 06:26:39 2018 No.10252245 >>10252228 You sell coin A at 25 usd and buy coin B at 25 usd. There is 0 profit. Regardless of the "it's not like kind" FUD, you owe 0 tax. A business owes 0 tax if it sells machinery worth 100k and buys a different machine worth 100k.

Anonymous Fri Jul 13 06:30:24 2018 No.10252264
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>>10252225
>fortune tax
You're right about this. I wrote wrong in the first post. As you say it's the fortune tax that is calculated by the cropto worth at 31.12.2017. I luckely don't have to pay any fortune tax tough.

However, since I did trading back and forth last year, those gains are counted as realised and therefor taxable. Even if the trading is from crypto to crypto. I have to pay 23% on those gains, but I've lost alot of those gains in 2018.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 13 06:31:31 2018 No.10252266 >>10252245 >You sell coin A at 25 usd and buy coin B at 25 usd. >There is 0 profit It is if you bought coin A for 10 usd

Anonymous Fri Jul 13 06:58:00 2018 No.10252403

>>10252245
Nope, incorrect.

If you exchange one coin for another it’s a taxable event.

ALL US accountants that know what they are doing say this. The IRS says this.

Anons are in denial. Sure, you might be able to evade paying but if they decide to investigate you are _fucked_

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 13 07:00:19 2018 No.10252411 File: 117 KB, 640x636, 1531161470576.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>10252239 FALSE! Because you are only taxed for profits, if its worth less you can subtract! Jesus fuck how do you think it works.

Anonymous Fri Jul 13 07:01:17 2018 No.10252416

>>10252245
that is not how tax works in the US, brainlet

tax are paid yearly, and they see on every trade and what you had at the end of the year

if you had 300k worth of crypto at 31/12/17, then you have to pay 100k in tax for that profit, i dont know the tax rate though

but if he didnt sell and held all the way to now, and his crypto stash went from 300k to 50k, then he is fucked, because he still owes 100k in tax for his 2017 profits but he only has 50k to pay it off with, aka massive tax debt

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 13 07:01:46 2018 No.10252421 >>10252403 What if you don't track your trades and you have lost a lot of money in trading??

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 13 07:06:23 2018 No.10252434 >>10252416 So let's say you bought BTC at $5k, 1 entire BTC That BTC went to $18k and you traded it for 600 NANO bought at $30 each. That 600 nano is now worth $1200. You're saying that you owe TAXES on the $18k BTC you spent on Nano?

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 13 07:07:35 2018 No.10252439 >>10252403 Imagine being so cucked you actually file taxes on all your alt trades lmao. I just tallied up the total p/l in dollars from all trading and reported that

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 13 07:45:02 2018 No.10252606 >>10252434 I'm pretty sure you can write it up as capital loss

Anonymous Fri Jul 13 07:49:51 2018 No.10252639
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>>10252416
This anon is right. Trading crypto to crypto is a taxable event.

Example:
Buy 1 btc for $2000
Price shoots up to $20 000
Trade the bitcoin (now worth 20k) to link

You have now just realized $18 000 gains and have to pay tax on those 18k.

All your gains and losses are added by the end of the year and taxes calculated. The calculated tax is LOCKED and have to be payed no matter what happens to the price of your crypto-holdings next year.

This is how it is in the US, and Norway wich I'm from.

I could trade my coins now to realize the loss, then I will get a tax deduction next year. But that doesn't help me now. Hopefully I'll be able to loan the money from my parents

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 13 07:55:49 2018 No.10252687 >>10252228 You're an idiot if you report that. Unless you got a 1099 or cashed out 5+ figures to you bank don't bother reporting it.

Anonymous Fri Jul 13 08:01:27 2018 No.10252709

>>10252687
Well the thing is my crypto was worth 150k at one point and I expect the to worth much more next year. So yeah, I do see my self cashing out 5+ figures.

It sucks to pay taxes, especially when it goes to shitskins. But it also sucks not being able to spend my gains on stuff other than weed from silkroad

Anonymous Fri Jul 13 08:06:54 2018 No.10252738

>>10252416
>>10252639

This is how it works with property but crypto to crypto is not necessary a realization. It could depend on the token. A realization is when you have an undeniable access and control to "wealth," if LINK for example is currently used for nothing but being traded back to another crypto is it a realization to buy LINK? It might not be, it would have to be decided in court. In the mean time you are free to treat is as a non-taxable event, this is what many cpas / eas are recommending.

>>10252709

lol no. If you never cashed out to USD then don't bother, especially if you're talking 2017 since you can use like kind to reduce your taxes to $0 anyway. How much your portfolio was worth on paper for a week doesn't matter.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 13 08:09:04 2018 No.10252746 >>10252434 yes you do. you spent therefore profited your bitcoin it doesnt matter what you bought with it.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 13 08:12:12 2018 No.10252764 >>10252709 also remember USDT is not USD, its a token. so going from BTC to USDT is not taxable in 2017.

Anonymous Fri Jul 13 08:14:42 2018 No.10252775

>>10252764

oh yeah 2017, durr. yeah you guys are alright as long as you sold off in 2017.
holding with profit at eoy is suicide why do you guys think the market is dying?
its done.
normies are out and never coming back because of the taxes.
drumpf killed crypto MAGA

Anonymous Fri Jul 13 08:18:55 2018 No.10252805

>>10252738
>This is how it works with property but crypto to crypto is not necessary a realization

>since you can use like kind to reduce your taxes to $0 anyway

Well, it is in Norway at least. The fact that crypto to crypto trade is a realization of profit or loss, is specifically mentioned in the guide lines from the tax office.

To my understanding it actually is the same in USA, but I'm not sure. I'm not from there and it doesn't apply to me, so I haven't done to much research on it

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 13 08:28:42 2018 No.10252870 >>10252411 Not if it goes into 2018... you gotta pay taxes on 2017, taxman dont care what you do with the money in the following year. you can burn it, doesnt mean you dont owe

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 13 08:30:09 2018 No.10252883 >>10252434 Yes, you profited on the increased value of BTC and bought something else. Nano went down but that's in 2018, they don't care about how you lost the money. You have to pay up.

Anonymous Fri Jul 13 08:53:12 2018 No.10253054

Imagine taking tax advice from edgy autists on /biz/

Doesn't matter if you only made $20,000 in crypto last year. If you ever do make it - say BTC goes to 100k and you cash out $1.5 MILLION to your bank account - the IRS is going to want to know where that came from.

NOW you're fucked since you haven't been reporting it for years - you'll get hit with penalties, fines and back taxes.

POINT IS - if you ever expect to make it huge in crypto and be able to use that money as FIAT you MUST be reporting every year or they will FUCK you if ever cash out big.

Anonymous Fri Jul 13 08:58:32 2018 No.10253089

>>10252209
or shit, just go the ian balina route
this nigerian fuck got an american citizenship to scam millions off dumbass burgers, conveniently gets "hacked" one week before taxes, then uses the supposedly compromised address one week later to register for an ICO
his retard followers defend him as he travels through the world on crypto gains
this is one guy literally broadcasting to the internet his million dollar tax fraud with his face and name while you fucks worry about your 5 figures shitcoin gains on your anonymous binance account

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 13 09:04:50 2018 No.10253136 well I hope you used a VPN and separate computer to browser 4chan because the government already knows who you are

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 13 09:08:03 2018 No.10253150 >>10252421 If you lost money you can write it off, binance and bitmex track trade for you

reluctant kneepad girl Fri Jul 13 09:08:44 2018 No.10253161
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>>10252164
there are literally NO CRYPTO tax laws enforced by legislator yet

you are NOT OBLIGATED to pay anything other than capital gains

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 13 09:52:36 2018 No.10253495 >>10252805 same in Finland, except you can NEVER deduct losses. Tax rate is 34% very easy to actually owe more in taxes than total gains but jamal needs to eat, right

Anonymous Fri Jul 13 12:09:24 2018 No.10254639

>>10253495
>you can NEVER deduct losses. Tax rate is 34%
That' fucked finbro. I cant even understand that it's actually legal to tax, but not deduct losses. Also sorry bout the high tax rate. Glad I live in Norway cause of that. Except from the shitskins of course. That's becoming a real problem. At least you don't have that

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 13 12:22:03 2018 No.10254763 File: 108 KB, 640x446, PjJC9.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>10254639 De har sin egen Oslo de og.

Anonymous Fri Jul 13 12:28:29 2018 No.10254839
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>>10254763
>De har sin egen Oslo de og.
Ingen slipper unna tydeligvis. Det er rett og slett for jævlig

>>10253495
>but jamal needs to eat, right
Didn't see this before now. I'm really sorry

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 13 12:39:30 2018 No.10254955 >>10253495 But isn't that from July onwards only?

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 13 12:41:38 2018 No.10254977 >>10253495 I mean crypto to crypto wasn't taxed in Finland before they announced it in the beginning of this July right? It used to be Crypto to fiat only but suddenly they decided to copy what other countries are doing. Lol.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 13 14:16:43 2018 No.10255975 >>10252164 You only pay taxes if you sell OP.... Did you sell at a profit? If it is at a loss you owe them nothing.

Anonymous Fri Jul 13 14:52:21 2018 No.10256377

>>10252181
>>10252164

There's no such thing as paying capital gains taxes on a loss, just as there is not taxes paid on business losses. It wouldn't make any sense.

If you think you owe more in taxes than you made, then you need to find an accountant to do your taxes because you clearly don't know what you are doing.

Anonymous Fri Jul 13 14:57:09 2018 No.10256438

>>10252164
I'm in the same position. I owe 45K in taxes and my crypto is worth about 30K right now. Feels bad man.

>>10252217
Holy shit I'm the same. I cashed out on 12/31/2017 from ICX to buy some XLM, then went back into ICX soon after.

Because I created that event, I owe like 45K on that. I'm stupid and didn't understand this stuff that well. If I was smarter and used Bitcoin.tax at the beginning of the year, I would have known to cash the fuck out and immediately pay this shit off (like other people did).

The problem is the crypto CPA I found online, I gave him my info in early febuary and he literally didn't get back to me until 3 days before it was all due. Even though I was texting him every couple of weeks checking in. I'm sure if he got back to me ASAP I would have sold but whatever it's still on me to know this shit.

So now I'm fucked. I feel you on this OP. It sucks being underwater. What are you going to do if your portfolio doesn't go back up? I'm assuming you filed the extension and have until Mid October like me.

Anonymous Fri Jul 13 15:06:33 2018 No.10256545

>>10256438
It suck man. Hope it works out for you.

There's no extension in Norway what so ever. If I don't pay up, they will force sell my assets. In my case that would be my flat. Or if I had a income from waging, I would only get payed the minimum amount to live, the rest would automatically be sent from my employer to the tax man.

Luckily I have parents who are quite well of, so I will ask them for a loan so that I can ride this storm out.

I guess I learned the same lessen as you to sell some coins at the end of the year and save them to pay the tax.

Anonymous Fri Jul 13 15:09:16 2018 No.10256584

>>10256377
What this lad said

>hur dur university is a meme
OPs post is the exact proof of why 80% of the individuals in business without education are fucking retarded, the fact that anyone can even argue that it isn't worth it and that it doesn't put you leaps above the majority are fucking brainlets

Anonymous Fri Jul 13 15:11:28 2018 No.10256608

>>10256545
What the fuck that's bullshit. Well here in Burgerland, I'll just penalized. So if October rolls around and I'm still under, guess there is nothing I can do. Basically I'll have to keep holding in hopes of a huge market rebound, and sell off to pay off the tax and penalties. I try not to think about it.

Even then, this is all on the basis that Binance is going to cooperate with the IRS in the future and give away all this info. Of course nobody knows, but any crypto focused CPA will tell you to be on the safe side and on every trade. I already paid on what I cashed out to fiat.

So you have a shitload of crypto people who just are not paying taxes (that IRS will have to go after). Then you have a lot like me who owe and haven't paid yet or did. We don't know who the IRS will go after. The IRS has no 100% guidelines. Everyone is just saying to pay just in case. This is all fucking bullshit. Fuck all of this.

>>10256377
Yes but what you need to understand is starting January 1st 2018 is a new year. This all occured in 2017. In OPs scenario and mind, we made trades on the last day of 2017 that created a taxable event. Then the shit we bought with that immediately tanked. They still want money from that event in 2017.

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