/biz/ - Business & Finance

[Anonymous No.10167647]

Who will win?

[Anonymous No.10167658]

>>10167647
US stock market will hold up much better but China will win long term (think >10 years)

[Anonymous No.10167659]

Trudeau

[Anonymous No.10167660]

>>10167647
China will win in the end unless murica drops minimum wage to compete with Asia

[Anonymous No.10167691]

US. We didn't need them before the rust belt happened and we don't need them now. Actually we don't really need anyone besides for some resources for electronics that we can easily get other places.

[Anonymous No.10168082]

unironically this

[Anonymous No.10168106]

>>10168082
suck my cock, vlad

[Anonymous No.10168129]

>>10167647
China has the benefit of being able to do everything for itself and it's own benefit. Trump has to deal with traitors who would rather prioritize other countries over America and then act surprised when he takes actions to protect American interests like every other country does with their own interests.

China has the upperhand so long as America doesn't act in it's own interest.

[Anonymous No.10168137]

US, flawless victory

[Anonymous No.10168145]

>>10168129
>Trump isn’t an Israel first cuck
The absolute state of muttservatives

[Anonymous No.10168151]

the only country that runs on blockchain

"every home has a mining rig"

EVERY

[Anonymous No.10168162]

not muslim and those looks

fuck you for having everything

south america

[Anonymous No.10168186]

China.

Why aren't the tariffs on complete chinese goods like phones or TVs or the cheap plastic shit everyone buys? It's like a fucking retard thinking somehow this'll cause a single steel mill to open.

[Anonymous No.10168191]

>>10167658
>>10167660
>>10168129
You summerfags don’t know shit. China has a serious demographic cliff, massive corruption, a coming tidal wave of toxicity caused sick/dying, internal friction/Balkanization, ABSOLUTELY MASSIVE debt leveraged on real estate, and shitty infrastructure, just to name a few of its many problems. I’ve lived there and know these first hand.

Perhaps, in some distant future, the Chinese people will create a system that reflects their traditional values better and which roots out corruption and then they will be a force to be reckoned with. But, current China is a paper tiger.

[Anonymous No.10168211]

>>10168191
To be honest the US has shittier infrastructure than China, and has more domestic debt leveraged on global trade (which Trump is destrying).

[Anonymous No.10168218]

>>10168191
hey look it's the only smart person in the thread

>>10167658
>>10167660
"People are taking shortcuts in life, culture and in the marketplace; in order to compete we HAVE to get dragged to their level!"
wonder which economic newspaper told you to think that way, lol

[Anonymous No.10168219]

>>10168191
That's something someone could say. Would you say the chinese government has more control over its economy than the American government has over its?

It's a trade war with a country that possibly cares less about its citizens. Your point is like some distant item aside that.

[Anonymous No.10168437]

>>10168191
This might come as a surprise to you but US white birthrate is on the same level as Chinese Han birthrate.

[Anonymous No.10168500]

China, Russia, EU and some LatAm cunts will tighten relations.
I recieved a report from my bank in which is very much emphasis on China and how the future is theirs, bla bla.
Lowering the chinese exposure on USD due to high taxes is unironically good for China in it's future development. Lots of chinese investments will come to EU. Also lots of EU shit will go to China.

[Anonymous No.10168533]

>>10168500
Can confirm this, chinese markets have been opening for euro companies in the last few months.

[Anonymous No.10168580]

>>10167647
I mean, Trump doesn't lose, so...

[Anonymous No.10168752]

>>10168533
Didn't expect that.
Anyway, all this trade war and neoprotectionism might have a happyend if Trump loses the next ellections. Any dem winning will restore asap things to pre Trump and I expect some bullish years world wide.
Trump will step off eventually, worst case after the next term and from then on the bull will start worldwide. But in this case there will be 6 hard years ahead for stock and trade and US might lose some important developments.

[Anonymous No.10168915]

>>10168752
Unironically this whole Trump act has brough euros, canada, japs and chinese closer together.

[Anonymous No.10169948]

>>10168915
>Unironically this whole Trump act has brough euros, canada, japs and chinese closer together.

It was all planned from the very beginning

[Anonymous No.10170038]

>>10167647
its time for the EU to just side with China at this point. just completely shun the US for trumps behavior and improve relationships with the asian markets.

[Anonymous No.10170053]

>>10170038
It's already the case.

[Anonymous No.10170061]

>>10169948
Imho Trump could have played his tough bussiness shenanigans with some diplomacy. Bullying the weak makes them stick together and one day they might also pull a bull on the bully.
Planned or not this is the effect.
The manifestation of power must be more subtle.
Not good.

[Anonymous No.10170072]

>>10170038
Commies join commies, who would have thunk it?

[Anonymous No.10170092]

>>10170072
you know fully well that this isnt the case. trump is a rat, plain and simple. americans are so convinced to succeed on their own, so why dont we let them prove it? this situation isnt about allying with china, its about putting the US in its place. two entirely different approaches.

[Anonymous No.10170107]

>>10170092
>americans are so convinced to succeed on their own
This is hilarious. The most global-oriented economy in the world doing a 180 and biting the dust because it has 0 industry.

[Anonymous No.10170112]

>>10170092
Don't jump the gun yet. Trump changes his mind because everything is a popularity contest.

[Anonymous No.10170122]

>>10170107
ITT Chinese shills stirring up emotions

[Anonymous No.10170140]

>>10170112
i hope for your sake that this doesnt turn into another brexit. the british were so happy about exiting the EU and now they are literally begging for breadcrumbs during the negotiations. for some reason these people thought that they can leave the EU but still keep all the benefits. trump needs to finally get a reality check and realize that this isnt the 80s anymore. the US' position is far from as unchallenged as it was back then.

[Anonymous No.10170172]

>>10170140
t. anti-American faggot

[Anonymous No.10170181]

>>10170122
It's not shilling, it's a fact. The US economy has spent the 40 last years focusing on high-value areas of the production chain (R&D, services, capital,...) and left the production part of other countries where their own companies could make profit.

Xi said earlier that over 50% of chinese exports towards the US were done by US companies. Trumps tariffs are litteraly targeting mostly american companies, and the countertariffs also target american companies.

[Anonymous No.10170185]

>>10170140
Yep. He seems to live in the late 80's.
With Twitter being the only difference.

[Anonymous No.10170195]

>>10170172
>anti-americanism
>bad
lmao

[Anonymous No.10170238]

It is hard to me to believe he doesn't realize we are in a globalized economy.
I think he just want to position himself and negotiate some slightly better deals and let every american see how he is much better than the other presidents.

[Anonymous No.10170256]

>>10170185
Or maybe you live in a fantasy world?
>>10170238
>It is hard to me to believe he doesn't realize we are in a globalized economy.
Globalized? Most countries that aren't the US use tariffs, including Europe and China. But when the US does it, they are suddenly the bad guys?

[Anonymous No.10170260]

What is this, 50-IQ Guardian reader hour? Shit.

[Anonymous No.10170266]

>>10170256
The US has high tariffs too, in addition of a fuckton of non-tariffs ways to keep foreign companies out.

[Anonymous No.10170275]

>>10170256
>But when the US does it, they are suddenly the bad guys?
see, thats the reason why no one can take you seriously. using tariffs is one thing. but counteracting 10% tariffs on US cars with 20% tariffs on european cars is just downright retarded. its not a reasonable decision to make. its just a pissing contest at that point.

[Anonymous No.10170278]

>>10167647
Their mutual enemies

[Anonymous No.10170287]

>>10170275
>see, thats the reason why no one can take you seriously.
Ad hominem attacks aren't arguments.
>using tariffs is one thing. but counteracting 10% tariffs on US cars with 20% tariffs on european cars is just downright retarded.
Why wouldn't 10% vs 0% tariffs be retarded then?
>its not a reasonable decision to make. its just a pissing contest at that point.
According to whom? Also, it's not that Trump has put the tariffs in place yet, he's only threatening them for now.

[Anonymous No.10170298]

>>10168191
Yeah this. Any opaque society like this will have major problems fester. Couple that with Uncle Xi being the new emperor, and his fate is sealed next great Chinese depression.

[Anonymous No.10170325]

>>10170287
>Why wouldn't 10% vs 0% tariffs be retarded then?
if your goal is equal treatment of both parties then youd match the tariffs. you dont go from 0% to 20%. thats just laughable behavior and makes you look like a spoiled child whos throwing a tantrum. its not the EU's fault that the US didnt have tariffs in place already. had trump announced 10%, and in return the EU would have increased theirs, now then youd be in a position to complain. didnt happen, though.
>Ad hominem
please do all of us the favor the refrain from using latin expressions that you clearly are too fucking retarded to mentally digest, you worthless little nigger.

[Anonymous No.10170328]

>>10170287
>According to whom?
According to everyone targeted by new tariffs, and the WTO. Hence the retaliatory tariffs.

[Anonymous No.10170330]

>>10168437
That's an important factor. There is no way in hell that a brown America will compete with China.

[Anonymous No.10170344]

>>10168191
(You) right now.
The shitty infrastructure part is particularly retarded considering their number of bullet trains.

[Anonymous No.10170345]

>>10170325
The goal is to get them to get rid of the tarrifs.

[Anonymous No.10170357]

>>10170238
>It is hard to me to believe he doesn't realize we are in a globalized economy.
>multi-billionaire international business man president of the United States is unaware of basic facts about the world which I will describe with buzzword
Haha you're a fucking drooling retard. Enjoy the next six years.

[Anonymous No.10170358]

>>10170325
So your argument is that the US is at fault when others raise their tariffs against them but when they retaliate with tariffs that may be higher, they are suddenly the bad guys?
>please do all of us the favor the refrain from using latin expressions that you clearly are too fucking retarded to mentally digest, you worthless little nigger.
You seem to be a little upset. As expected of someone who can't win an argument with some random guy on an internet message baord.
>>10170328
>According to everyone targeted by new tariffs, and the WTO
Did the WTO rule against the US? No they did not. Does the opinion of the party that is negatively affected matter? No.

[Anonymous No.10170378]

>>10170358
>Did the WTO rule against the US?
Nope, the WTO merely allows the offended parties (all the countries targeted by the US) to raise tariffs as well, by as much money as the US tariffed them.
That's why the agricultural sector of the US (main export sector btw) has been collapsing over the last weeks.

[Anonymous No.10170388]

>>10167691
like canada?
>starts trade war
oh wait

[Anonymous No.10170398]

>>10170378
>Nope, the WTO merely allows the offended parties (all the countries targeted by the US) to raise tariffs as well, by as much money as the US tariffed them.
The WTO has not ruled against or for anyone.
>That's why the agricultural sector of the US (main export sector btw) has been collapsing over the last weeks.
Only certain sectors are disappropiately affected.

[Anonymous No.10170403]

>>10168186
there really should be. of all the things trump could have put tarrifs on he missed the ones that actually mattered. but no, lets attack canada, the country that ships us all their raw resources for cheap and buys our products for $$$$

[Anonymous No.10170406]

>>10170398
>The WTO has not ruled against or for anyone.
They have not ruled against anyone, but according to WTO rules the countertariffs are entirely justified and the US is the offending party.

[Anonymous No.10170418]

>>10170406
>They have not ruled against anyone, but according to WTO rules the countertariffs are entirely justified and the US is the offending party.
The other countries have put tariffs on the US before, so the US is justified with their tariffs.
>b-but they are higher than the other countries tariffs
So what?

[Anonymous No.10170431]

>>10170403
China dumps on Canada and Canada dumps Chinese shit on the US.

[Anonymous No.10170437]

>>10170403
>of all the things trump could have put tarrifs on he missed the ones that actually mattered.
Trump put tariffs on things he knew wouldn't create prices hikes for the consumer (not to shit up his voter base). The US industry is taking the bulk of those tariffs however, but can't switch easily to local products.
Mexico, China and the EU especially put tariffs on consumer goods to make them entierely uncompetitive compared to the local alternatives.

>>10170418
>The other countries have put tariffs on the US before
Yeah, during treaties that have been agreed by both parties decades ago.

[Anonymous No.10170442]

>>10170107
The US still has the second largest manufacturing sector on the planet

[Anonymous No.10170452]

>>10170437
>Yeah, during treaties that have been agreed by both parties decades ago.
Nope nothing to do with treaties. The EU has put tariffs on the US without any treaties.

[Anonymous No.10170472]

>>10170442
>The US still has the second largest manufacturing sector on the planet
Yes, because they count companies likes Apple and Nvidia as manufacturing.

[Anonymous No.10170481]

>>10170452
>The EU has put tariffs on the US without any treaties.
When ?

[Anonymous No.10170502]

>>10170038

china could teach europe how to ban wrongthink from the internet

[Anonymous No.10170521]

>>10170107

China doesnt have enough domestic demand to keep up its industry. Europe is far too weak and poor to pick up the US demand decrease.

[Anonymous No.10170535]

>>10170521
The US demand won't decrease, americans can't into industry anymore.
When an american company wants to increase production, they set a tent and fill it with beaners.

[Anonymous No.10170588]

>>10167659
>Implying he isn't fondling Xi's balls day and night.

[Anonymous No.10170644]

>>10167647
Trump will get some easily grantable concessions/shit is so ridiculously unbalanced towards China right now there is no way they go to a full trade war.

[Anonymous No.10170661]

>>10167647
America, unironically.

As bad as the situation is in America, it's much worse in China although it's not obvious at first glance. Their real estate market is in the biggest bubble in human history and their demographics are becoming like an upside-down pyramid (too many old people and not enough young people).

This could literally cause way more problems for China than for America and I suspect that they'll be forced to concede.

[Anonymous No.10170685]

Given the control the Chinese Communist Party has over the economy and the people of China I don't think they can't actually lose.

[Anonymous No.10170693]

>>10170685
They can actually lose*

[Anonymous No.10170874]

>>10167660
Derp

[Anonymous No.10171177]

>>10170038
If that happens it will start a huge brain drain towards america.

[Anonymous No.10171268]

>>10167647
America and/or Trump obviously

But there are going to be casualties.
The key weapon America has in this trade war is the fact that it still is a key investor in Chinese companies, and chinese companies list themselves to American investors in the NYSE. However, US has been very lax on the transparency requirements for these companies to go public, since in China it is legal to only disclose real numbers to the state and different ones to foreign investors. ( Watch China Hustle in Netflix)

A halt of investment will cause the Chinese bubble like growth to stall and the economy to crash.

>inb4 muh Chinese investors

Everytime you hear a Chinese billionaire buying a yacht, or a famous restaurant, or huge properties, sports teams, and companies outside of China, you might interpret it as rich investors not knowing what to do with so much money in China and thus expanding internationally. This is wrong. Investors do this because they are desperate to get their money out of China. The rich in China have been desperately moving out droves of cash out of the country since they have the first row seats to the huge mess of a bubble the Chinese economy is.

Economic depression will upset the current Chinese political system and cause people to finally fight back the government leading to instability and the eventual resignation of Xi- Jinping which would mean victory for Trump and Co.

Nevertheless, China will launch some tricks off their sleeves. China has huge reserves of US dollars that it will probably dump causing massive inflation and the dollar loosing its value in an unprecedented scale. China will also punish US companies in the area causing billions in losses.
China will probably also briefly try to destabilize the US by taking military action in the South China Sea, as well as fucking over specific counties in America with special tarrifs and investments hoping that Trump looses the 2020 election.

[Anonymous No.10171612]

>>10171268
>the weapon the US has is the fact that their companies manufacture things in China
>proceed to tariff the fuck out those companies
such genius
very politics
wew

[Anonymous No.10171790]

>>10170344
Wumao qian has been deposited in your Alipay account. Keep up the good work comrade!

[Anonymous No.10171812]

>switches to petroyuan
>annexes resources in Africa
>recalls debt

heh, nothing personal roundeye

[Anonymous No.10172048]

>>10168191
You would be right if the USA were still what they were before the 1965 immigration act: a 85% + white country led by WASP and not a rapidly decaying empire plagued by societal and racial tensions.

[Anonymous No.10172084]

>>10167647
>Downtrend hits both
>US/Israel starts another war in the middle east
>US economy booms while China hits recession tier

I mean.. do you even history?

[Anonymous No.10172303]

>>10168191
China is reaching the point where their system of government is driving buisness away. No one in their right mind does a buisness contract in China they are all made up in Hong Kong, Macau or outside of China. Brainlet tourists will always go there but smart worldly buisness people are increasingly saying no to doing buisness in China. My friend actually told me to invest in the Chinese stock market and I laughed and told him be prepared to lose all his money because when the CCP goes a lot of Chinese stocks will drop in price drasticly or become non existant as they were mostly state owned. I don't know why China can't reform a little bit and become like Hong Kong, you have to be a brainlet or a chink to do buisness in China, they can literally commit fraud and 95 percent of the time the chinaman won't see court and get away with your money.

[Anonymous No.10172329]

>>10168211
>the US has shittier infrastructure than China
You've clearly never been to China.

[Anonymous No.10172381]

>>10168211
Chinese sea wall

[Anonymous No.10172395]

>>10168211
Chinese roadwork

[Anonymous No.10172436]

>>10168211
typical Chinese apartment

[Anonymous No.10172457]

>>10168211
average Chinese tap water

[Anonymous No.10172473]

>>10172303
>gets more and more grotesque the longer the meme stays in the wild

[Anonymous No.10172518]

>>10170661
China is also an export country. 20% of the worlds exports are bought by America. There have already been chinese papers leaking that show that chinese politicians are very worried about their inability to support a trade war with the US

[Anonymous No.10172549]

China is just a factory for the US. No one wants to live near a factory.

[Anonymous No.10172551]

>>10168211
Chinese electric work

[Anonymous No.10172585]

>>10171268
The dollar losing value, along with the recent corporate tax cuts and the tariffs on European products, would actually bring major foreign investment stateside (especially traditional Euro companies). The US is still the largest consumer country in the world by far. Giving foreign companies incentives to base themselves here (both on the tax side and the cost side through cheap workers and tariffs) will be a major play for the US. China was set to beat us as a consumer economy eventually, and then they would have all the leverage as both the largest producer AND consumer and would be able to pick and choose the foreign winners based on how much it would benefit them.

Now is the best time for the US to do this. Wait any longer and we'd be toast, whether we want a trade war or not.

[Anonymous No.10172627]

>>10168151
sounds like a perfect testbed

[Anonymous No.10172664]

>>10172457
Chinese has pink soda instead of water ?

[Anonymous No.10172691]

>>10170693
and it will only get worse.
As the social credit system becomes mandatory, the control by the party will become absolute.
Don't talk poorly about them, be a good citizen, and they won't turn off your ability to do anything; travel, purchase, rent, etc.
Absolute totalitarian control.

[Anonymous No.10172775]

>>10172691
yeah, that's worked in the past....

[Anonymous No.10172779]

>>10167647
The rest of the world including China.

[Anonymous No.10172808]

>>10172775
except this time, with the internet, blockchain tech, a complete Orwellian surveillance state equipped with facial recognition/AI that can track your every movement, even when you're not carrying your phone. Well it might be different this time.
Might work this time.

[Anonymous No.10172838]

>>10172775
What is technology?

[Anonymous No.10173433]

>>10172303
Driving businesses away to where?
If you were Apple, in which country would you move your smartphone factories?

[Anonymous No.10173449]

>>10173433
we get it pajeet, they're coming to India.

[Anonymous No.10174511]

>>10171612
jesus what a fucking brainlet