/biz/ - Business & Finance

[Anonymous No.936642]

>itt: we post investing failures may it be stocks or whatever.

It can't be worse than pic related.

[Anonymous No.936662]

wow it's real. All my money is in spy, bonds, and bond funds. No individual stocks.

[Anonymous No.936663]

>>936642
I am the owner of GTAT. I am going to jail :(

[Anonymous No.936665]

dis my bortfolio :----(((

[Anonymous No.936666]

>>936663

[Anonymous No.936667]

Just wondering guys, if things like OP's picture happen and I lose a large sum of money due to the company going to bankruptcy right after, isn't it possible to sue and get your money back?

[Anonymous No.936674]

>>936667

No

You're not buying the stocks from the company

[Anonymous No.936676]

>>936674
What's this then?
http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20141020006662/en/GTAT-INVESTOR-ALERT-Class-Action-Lawsuit-GT

[Anonymous No.936678]

>>936667
Secured bond holders get their money back first. Then bond holders. Stock holders get nothing usually.

[Anonymous No.936682]

>>936676
>http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20141020006662/en/GTAT-INVESTOR-ALERT-Class-Action-Lawsuit-GT

The lawsuit they have alleges that the company lied to investors.

>The Complaint alleges that defendants made false and/or misleading statements and failed to disclose material adverse facts about the Company’s operations and financial prospects. Specifically, defendants misled investors that there were significant risks that the Company would be unable to fulfill the requirements of an agreement with Apple, Inc. to supply sapphire material; and that, as a result the Company was facing a liquidity crisis.

That's completely different from a company just going under because they can't make a profit.

[Anonymous No.936688]

>>936682
Man, investing is such a gamble.

[Anonymous No.936690]

>>936688
>imblygni

[Anonymous No.936719]

>>936642
>@ByronBernstain

[Anonymous No.936722]

>>936719
problem?

[Anonymous No.936732]

>>936682
>>936665
>>936662
happy birthday to the GROUND!
Welcome to the real world, Jackass!

[Anonymous No.936799]

>>936667
>Sue a bankrupt company
kek

[Anonymous No.936808]

>>936642
I've seen worse losses in stocks. I'm sure it damaged his moral, but I doubt it's more than 25% of his account.

Scars like this are necessary; they mold a trader.

[Anonymous No.936812]

[Anonymous No.936819]

>>936812
FUCKING HELL WHY CAN'T I BE THIS RICH REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

[Anonymous No.936825]

>>936819
Because money is earned not handed to you. Wtf kind of question is that, fucking frogposting millenials

[Anonymous No.936844]

>>936825
FUCKYOUCHAAAAAADYOUFUCKINGNORMIEFAGGOTYOUDON'TFUCKINGGETITREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

[Anonymous No.936845]

>>936844
DELETE THIS POST MAGGOT

[Anonymous No.936863]

>>936642
>investing all your money into two stocks

Speculator af

[Anonymous No.936866]

>>936688
Only if you have no idea how to build a portfolio and you just make investments based on emotion

If you have a properly diversified portfolio your risk should be almost completely mitigated and losing money basically impossible.

[Anonymous No.936867]

>>936819
>I deserve everything handed to me for free
>>936844
>I think this is funny because I saw it on reddit

I don't think you're old enough to be here

[Anonymous No.936869]

I find it hilarious that people major in college to be able to invest in stocks. You don't need to study for 4 years in order to learn how to put money in stocks, fucking retarded business majors, that major is a fucking joke.

[Anonymous No.936872]

Eike Batista

http://www.businessinsider.com/who-is-eike-batista-2013-10

Lost $35 billion in a year on bad commodity deals.

[Anonymous No.936876]

>>936863

I have all my companies in BHP Billiton and low cost Iron ore miners.

[Anonymous No.936887]

>>936876
Ya fuck diversification.
75% of my money is in oil stocks. When you are certain that the market is overreacting, you have to grab your dick and put everything you have on that knowledge. Spreading your money out is for pussies

"Put all your eggs in one basket and watch that basket."
-Carnegie

[Anonymous No.936893]

>>936887
>Ya fuck diversification.
I generally support that idea, if you have your best pick then stick with it. If you are not certain in what you are picking, do not pick anything at all. Diversification is laziness, or incompetent analysis, suits gamblers more than investors.

Don't get me wrong having a mixed portfolio is not a bad thing, but when thinking of putting a bulk capital in a timeframe you think is ripe for investing do it in the best pick, not 20 best picks, that way you can choose an ETF also.

[Anonymous No.936894]

>>936887
Aren't oil stocks doing bad atm?

[Anonymous No.936898]

>>936894
Yes exactly, thats why Im buying them

[Anonymous No.936908]

>>936894

Exactly why you buy in. Commodities are cyclical.

[Anonymous No.936909]

>>936898
>>936908
about to get cucked

[Anonymous No.936910]

>>936642

Do people just not bother with stop-losses?

I mean, really?

[Anonymous No.936916]

>>936909
Grow some balls. Getting cucked is 7% annually

[Anonymous No.936918]

>>936916
im beyond that bro

-7%

[Anonymous No.936921]

Nortel Stock

its makes penny stocks look rich right now.

>2K loss
My fault for holding onto it for so long, at one point it was worth 10K

[Anonymous No.936924]

First time investor here

I have $10,000 I want to invest. Would it be smart to buy stock in say Amazon or Apple? Or in stock that is fairly inexpensive like $6 a share? There's some tech companies I'm eyeing that are $6-$9 a share.

[Anonymous No.936927]

>>936688
>investing in individual stocks is such a gamble
Fixed that for you, fam.

[Anonymous No.936931]

>>936924
jesus christ dont touch stock

[Anonymous No.936936]

>>936931
What would you recommend?

[Anonymous No.936938]

>>936924
put it all into Bitcoin tbh. Free money

[Canaduhfag. No.936940]

>>936936
Index funds fucker. Vanguard ETFs

[Anonymous No.936945]

>>936936
invest successfully in a stock simulator or demo account for a few years

[Anonymous No.936960]

>>936893
>diversification suits gamblers more than investors

Spoken like someone who has absolutely no idea what he's talking about.

Putting all your money in one area is completely retarded, all you're doing is flipping a coin and hoping you win the toss.

[Anonymous No.936964]

>>936924
Take the time to read up on how to build a successful portolio

don't listen to guys like >>936893
who will soon lose the petty cash they started investing a few weeks ago and now think they are experts.

[Anonymous No.936994]

>>936960

You haven't explained why concentration is problematic beyond just saying its retarded.

Only problem is downside risk, but diversification reduces upside potential. Its up the person to decide what works for them.

[Anonymous No.937025]

>>936910
GTAT lost all it's value in the space of 5 seconds. No stop loss is going to save you from a gap down like that.

>>936927
What do you think the s&p 500 represents? 500 cookies? It is a bunch of stocks weighed according to their mkt cap and those stocks are CONSTANTLY changing. If you're in an index you're just buying whatever s&p says to buy. Indexes DO lose a ton of value as they did in 2008, 2000 and 90% in the early 1930s(!). So don't think they're full proof or that they're "permanent investment" because the stocks do change, they can lose value and they're not weighted equally.

[Anonymous No.937038]

>>936819
You have to give your life to sponsors and destroy the sport of boxing for at least the next 50 years

[Anonymous No.937150]

>>936994
Exactly, diversification mitigates all your risk. But it doesn't reduce upside unless you consider it guaranteed that wherever you decided to put all your money in is going through the roof, which is never guaranteed.

So what you're doing is gambling. The fact that you think a diverse portfolio is gambling and putting all your money in one place isn't is completely retarded. It's obvious you have no idea what you're talking about.

[Anonymous No.937166]

>>937150
Some really smart and successful people think otherwise, anon. Icahn has a good quote about believing in yourself enough to put all your wealth behind one idea. Ill try to find it.

I dont buy the gambling argument. Gambling could be seen as the farthest thing on the spectrum of investing, with treasuries on the opposite end. Developing a single theory and putting all your money behind it lies somewhere in the middle, albeit weighted slightly towards the gambling end of the spectrum. You could be right about your theory and you could be wrong, but the outcome is in no way decided randomly

[Anonymous No.937169]

>>937025
>So don't think they're full proof
> full proof
> full

[Anonymous No.937185]

>>937166
He isn't referring to investing in one stock, he is referring to building your own business.

Developing a 'theory' on a stock and putting all your money behind it is idiotic gambling because you don't know what is going to happen with it.

These aren't 'theories' bud, a properly designed portfolio is mathematically favored towards success where as throwing all your money on one stock is pure speculation. Not sure why you're talking about theories, you sound very unfamiliar with financial terms and investing in general.

No successful investor anywhere is of the opinion that putting everything in one stock is intelligent, you made that up and vaguely thought one out of context quote was your evidence.

[Anonymous No.937191]

>>937185
I guess it all depends on your expectations, goals, and timeframe. I wouldnt suggest putting everything on ONE stock, but like I said earlier 75% of my portfolio is in oil companies, all bought at extremely depressed prices. Why would I buy into tech or housing or insurance industries just for diversification, when energy has gotten hammered so hard I can get oil stocks for 20 cents on the dollar?

Would I suggest that for an older individual looking to retire soon, or someone who needs a garuntee their money will be there next year? Of course not. It's all about risk tolerance. I'm assuming most ppl on this board are <30yo, however and should be taking on much more risk than they are

[Anonymous No.937209]

>>937191
What you're gambling on is that oil will come back in a big way and more specifically on the companies which you bought into. Historically that's not a bad move based on where they are now. But oil has competition and there is always the possibility it won't come back.

In order to 'hedge your bets' put a little bit of that money into solar/natural gas/alternative energy companies.

I rarely invest in energy companies so I don't know much about the specifics but the key is always to make sure that if one company or area of the market collapses that you're invested in another part that will cover that loss.

A good portfolio also has a balance between investments in first rate bonds and mutual funds to ensure that the interest is highly likely to cover any potential losses from the more volatile stock market.

If you invest correctly you limit your downside to basically losing nothing and create an upside which may not be quite as big as if you put your entire war chest on one thing that happens to blow up. But if you're a regular investor not looking for one big investment and then out, it's highly unlikely you will always make the right picks, eventually you're going to put all your money down somewhere that goes badly and then you have huge losses without any coverage.

Yeah you could risk all your money if you're below 30 and be okay if you lose it but why? You might as well just buy lottery tickets, eventually you're going to slip up and lose most of what you've made. If you invest properly then when you're past 30 you have a guaranteed large sum that returns more and more each year as you put your earnings back into it.

[Anonymous No.937216]

Stay away from meme stocks my friends

[Anonymous No.937218]

>>937216
I've also lost 400 in an optionhouse account, I bought CLV because of the high dividends. I'm shifting my strategy from swing trading to long term holding, mainly because I've fucked up most my trades so far.

[Anonymous No.937277]

>>937169
>I did that?
>Yes I did.
>Blame the white russians.

>>937150
Diversification cannot mitigate all risk and just leave upside potential. Such a thing isn't possible, otherwise everyone would just buy the s&p driving it into bubble territory. Indexing should have died in 2000 with the bursting of the nasdaq bubble due to this very thinking.

>>937185
>These aren't 'theories' bud, a properly designed portfolio is mathematically favored towards success where as throwing all your money on one stock is pure speculation.

Modern portfolio theory is a theory...you're buying the weights assigned by s&p. pic related.

[Anonymous No.937360]

>>937209
I pretty much agree with everything you're saying. You're describing a good portfolio for most people. My personal propensity for risk is currently much greater than the portfolio you define, so it wouldn't fit well in my situation. The point being there arent inherently "good" or "bad" portfolios, as long as yours is tailored to your needs.

In a large poker tournament, there is a certain time around the beginning of play in which a good player takes risks he wouldnt take further into the tournament. It's not unusual to push all in with a decent odds hand like pocket 10s in an attempt to build a stack and be better positioned for the rest of the tournament. If you are young, have limited resources, and find a good hand, I say do your DD and push all in. It's your best shot at building a respectable enough stack to punch you into the leaderboard later in life. Thats just my 2 cents, though. Everyone's situation is different

>inb4 poker is gambling

[Anonymous No.937365]

>>937216
>penny stocks.
You deserve no less.

[Anonymous No.937440]

>>936924
Share price means nothing btw

[Anonymous No.937443]

>>936642
Fucking jewful, he makes like 10k a month just from stream donations, of course he's not sad

[Anonymous No.937446]

>>936924
a company being $6 a share can be of the same total value as a company that is vlaued at $100 a share

To determine what the market value of the entire company is look at market cap

e.g. say there is a 100 shares of company A and 1000 company B

company A is valued at $20 and company B is worth $5

20x100<5x1000

ya dig?

Seriously, just stay the fuck away from stocks. You are so fucking clueless. You sound like those kids that got under 10% in their math tests

[Anonymous No.937731]

>>937443
>Fucking jewful, he makes like 10k a month just from stream donations, of course he's not sad
Even if your assumption is correct, anyone who lost 11 months of income should be sad. To claim otherwise is delusional.

Wealthy people don't sweat reasonable losses because losing a month or two of income is irrelevant. Wealthy people also don't sweat temporary reversals of fortune because they take a long term perspective. This screenshot is a whole other category, and show a very weak investing mindset.

[Anonymous No.937741]

>>937277
Yes it can, you're obviously one of those people who thinks the stock market is all the makes up a portfolio.

Stocks should make up less than 50% of your total portfolio for a reason.

>just buy into S&P

I said stocks and mutual funds

>you're buying the weights assigned by the s&p

no, you are utterly misinformed. Do some research for yourself instead of just learning from photos posted on /biz/ you don't have a genuine understanding of the market.

[Anonymous No.937781]

>>937741
>Stocks should make up less than 50% of your total portfolio for a reason.
Welcome to Geezer-Chan, home of financial advice for the wheelchair crowd.

[Anonymous No.937805]

>>937781
>I learned how to invest from reading a blog on the internet and have been a successful investor for nearly 2 weeks now!

[Anonymous No.937826]

>>937805
That's the best retort you could come up with: to question the source of my financial education and the depth of my experience in investing? And what if I proved that I have more investing knowledge and experience (not to mention, more money) than you? Do you see how foolish this would make you?

If you want to defend your statement, stick to the facts. Or give up and leave, which is always an option on an anonymous message board. But don't resort to ad hominum attacks because for all you know the people you're attacking is infinitely smarter and more successful than you.

[Anonymous No.937827]

>>937805
That's the best retort you could come up with: to question the source of my financial education and the depth of my experience in investing? And what if I proved that I have more investing knowledge and experience (not to mention, more money) than you? Do you see how foolish this would make you?

If you want to defend your statement, stick to the facts. Or give up and leave, which is always an option on an anonymous message board. But don't resort to ad hominem attacks because for all you know the person you're attacking is infinitely smarter and more successful than you.

[Anonymous No.937829]

>>936910

>bankruptcy
>stop-loss

[Erin, Queen of /pol/ !!hEqKKwFubiB No.937840]

>>936898
Whoch oil stocks are good to buy in right now?

[Anonymous No.937853]

>>936910
In a lot of ways, stop losses are counter productive.

On the dips that you should ride out, your stop loss will activate and force you out of the position. This causes traders to get pushed out right before the rebound.

The big downward moves that you want to avoid are generally gap downs, where stop losses dont work. Actually, you end up selling after the big move has already happened and a lot of the risk has been taken off the table.

Meanwhile they are cancerous, because like portfolio insurance, they can turn a normal market gyration into a cascading failure, just because some jerks had some tight trailing stops in an illiquid product. It happens.

Fuck stop-losses.

[Anonymous No.937886]

>>937853
+1. If you're going to gamble $120k on a crapshoot, then you should risk your stake or not bother. Either you'll lose it all, or you'll hit your home run. If you're only going to risk half by putting in some stop loss, then you're precluding at least some of the winning paths too.

[BellyBro No.937941]

>>937827
Except you don't and never will be because you're an idiot.

Stick to what facts? you don't know anything factual to discuss, you're a moron with a singular opinion and no experience.

[iHaz !MILLiOnz/Q No.937963]

>>937941
Suprise motherfucker: I've got decades of investing experience and a multi-million dollar portfolio that I self-manage.

Thanks for the chuckle, kid. You can go cry in a corner now.

[Anonymous No.937975]

>>937963
#REKT
>>937941

Go cry on /pol about the jews now kid.

[Anonymous No.937983]

>>937963
>>937975
5 star posts right here

[Anonymous No.938012]

>>937963
>>937975
Thanks for proving my point idiotic children, you can go back to watching cartoons and talking about video games on reddit now.

[Anonymous No.938032]

>>937963
lol'd

I'm glad that douche canoe reckful lost 120k. nothing makes me reee harder than the average teenage youtube celebrity/twitch gaymer that gets paid to spout memes and give "advice" to children with their parents' credit cards

[Anonymous No.938034]

>>937963
Oh shit iHAZ!

[Anonymous No.938063]

http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB125996714714577317

This guy lost $127m gambling

[Anonymous No.938117]

>>936682
Yeah, GTAT was pretty fraudulent at the end. Basically what happened (among other things) was they they reaffirmed guidance while they were in the middle of bankruptcy proceedings. They tried to claim that it was just in case and they hadn't actually planned to declare, but then it came out that the burn rate they'd been touting was completely manufactured.

Fortunately that was one of my smaller positions, guy I know lost 20k on it

[Anonymous No.938135]

>>938117
Holy fuck, his father must be rolling in his grave. This is why retards can't have money.

[Anonymous No.938170]

>>936642
>not using options to define your risk

[Anonymous No.938232]

>>937963
Oh hai.

So i don't quite understand the concept of this, i don't know how people are making hundreds a day just by investing? is it caused by larges sums of money put in at one moment and hoping for the best?

[Anonymous No.938237]

>>938232
>he's a tripfag with million in his name so he's definitely telling the truth about managing millions

Are you really this gullible?

[Anonymous No.938240]

>>936667
there is a long line of people waiting to get their share

investors in common stock come dead last, pretty much

[Anonymous No.938243]

>>938237
You don't like leaving your shell much, do you son?

[Anonymous No.938399]

>>938243
You don't like using your brain much, do you son?

>oh plz tell me all about how you made millions! it must be true it's in your tripfag name on 4chan!

[Anonymous No.938402]

>>938399
MAXXXXIMUM DAMAGE CONTROL DETECTED

[Anonymous No.938412]

>>938402
wut

[Anonymous No.938422]

>>938412
YOU HAVE BEEN TOLD
JUST LEAVE

[Anonymous No.938429]

>>938422
nah

[Anonymous No.938439]

>not just investing in a tracking portfolio for your chosen index comprised of 50-100 stocks that you choose

[Anonymous No.938461]

>>938429
SIT DOWN YOU ARE DESTROYED

[Anonymous No.938470]

>>938399

You're digging yourself a hole here, sonny-jim. iHaz is about the only tripfag on here who has ever posted timestamped evidence of his wealth, on multiple occasions as far as I know.

[Anonymous No.938472]

>>937731
Donations are not his only income, he gets even more money from subs+ads+sponsors. He's also addicted to gambling so I wouldn't call him a smart investor

[Anonymous No.938475]

>>938461
nah
>>938470
he posted himself with a few dozen hundies and all you kids thought he was millionaire?

[Anonymous No.938476]

>>938475
I'm not even a fan of him but he is the only one who ever posted lots of good proof.

[Anonymous No.938484]

>>938475

No, more like stock portfolios and bank statements. Seriously, stop digging, you're only making yourself look more of an idiot.

[Anonymous No.938563]

>>936682
>Goldberg
OY VEY

[Anonymous No.938567]

>>938563
?

[Anonymous No.938627]

>>936642

> starting working for Mining Company
> underground coal gasification
> pilot plant about to go up
> experienced CEO with multiple successful ventures under his belt
> very low stock price
> invest $10000
> stock price keeps going up
> double initial investment
> pilot plant is going up in a farming area
> farmers start complaining
> "underground water supply is being poisoned"
> it's a load of bullshit
> media picks up on it
> environmental report gets ordered
> it's fucking nothing
> pilot plant gets stopped
> plans for 300 million dollar power plant on hold
> investor confidence plummets
> pilot plant cancelled
> leave the company - keep the stocks
> "it might blow over"
> nope.jpg
> CEO leaves (to start another company)
> company re-brands itself
> damage is done
> stocks are worthless

Years later I check on the CEO's new company and its huge and successful. Fucking farmers ruined my investment. Mining industry is like gambling. Just avoid investing in that industry.

[Anonymous No.938637]

>>938627
>Fucking farmers ruined my investment.

Yep. Exactly.

Sorry for your loss, anon. But has it ever crossed your mind that your former employer ruined those farmers?

[Anonymous No.938640]

>>938627
>Mining industry is like gambling.

not if you know what youre doing. and not if you invest in where the real money can be made mining i.e.: middle of fucking nowhere, third world-istan where there arent any media outlets for dirt farmers to complain to

[Anonymous No.938641]

>>938627
should have taken the gainz m8

[Anonymous No.938642]

>>938627
Shoulda shorted m8

[Anonymous No.938657]

>>936825
Rich kids of instagram disagree (while laughin at your cuck face).

[Anonymous No.938660]

>>936960
And by putting it into a lot of coins you are flipping a lot of coins and winning peanuts.
Becoming rich always involves luck you dumb fuck.

[Anonymous No.938663]

>>936844

back 2 reddit you stupid 15 year old frog poster, its not even funny anymore you missed the boat, gift

[Anonymous No.938669]

>>936867
Stop acting mature when you are a libertarian cuck who believes in freewill to cope.

[Anonymous No.938902]

>>936924
500m-1b MC High gain-high risk
1b-10b MC medium gain medium risk
10b< MC low gain-low risk
Investments is a very hard thing to do. I read the news on various things that would effect my stocks and what wouldn't everyday. Stocks can not be easily done as to follow what a news site tells you what would be good to invest in because then you're just following the crowd. If investments were easy everyone would be a millionaire. I'll give you one stock for a short term and long term though. I rarely invest in penny stocks but one of these is a penny stock. Penny stocks are incredibly unstable. One day you have 1m dollars the next day you have 10,000. Remember greed and impatience can ruin you completely in the stock market. I remember when I invested in DJAK in 2012 and it soon went up from $0.01 to $1.00 or WDAS that did the same. There are a lot of big breaks in the stock market that a lot of people don't even know exist. I here people say 24/7 that oh guys we should've invested in apple or Google. See that's why you're not getting anywhere, you loath on what the past brought but you don't look at the present and look towards the future. What's going to happen? Beef now made from plants? Self driving car? Marijuana? But oh yeah that Apple Stock is surely to go up, I just know it! I'll put my stocks in Apple like everyone else and I'll be a millionaire, no no a billionaire! What about the self driving car? Google makes them lets invest in Google! No, no, you don't. Invest in companies that manufacture parts and companies that would fix major problems in that like for example the price is too high. Short:mjna Long:stm

[Anonymous No.938926]

>>938476
>>938484
Because some tripfag posted a bank receipt and got all you kids with 100 dollars in your account excited?

rofl you guys are pathetic

[Anonymous No.938927]

>>938660
>>938669
No it doesn't you brain dead moron. Investing isn't just

>hurr durr he got lucky!

only idiots like you who have no idea what they're doing and no understanding of the market think that.

[Anonymous No.938931]

>>938660
was this your attempt at sounding like you understood the market by the way?

>putting it into a lot of coins

did you think that made you sound knowledeable or are you actually this dumb.

>hurr durr if you only invest in one stock u r most smarter if u invest in lots iz gambling

this is how you sound, idiot.

[Anonymous No.938935]

>>937963
kek
KEK
K E K
kEk
k E k

[Anonymous No.938959]

check it

[Anonymous No.939039]

Mining company xyz
>Intial public offering x
>>938627
>Intial public offering y
>>938627
>Intial public offering z and bankrupt soon after that

[iHaz !MILLiOnz/Q No.939042]

>>938926
>Because some tripfag posted a bank receipt
I don't post bank receipts. I post account statements.

I get that you're a newfag, and I don't blame you for being skeptical, but that doesn't excuse the fact that you're acting like a giant faggot.

[Anonymous No.939047]

>>938627
>Investing in your own company.
You depend on that company for a salary, don't depend on that company for your savings as well.

[Anonymous No.939049]

>>939042

If you worked at a bank, or as a actuary or accountant, couldn't you just pull that from one of the files and pretend that it was yours?

Just asking

[Anonymous No.939050]

>>939042
Nice trust fund.

[Anonymous No.939055]

>poor NEET
>remember I started an investment game like 2 years ago, decide to check it out
>33.69% annual return
>what could have been...

[Anonymous No.939064]

>>939055
Fast food, pharmaceuticals, and technology lol
Just looks funny

[Anonymous No.939065]

>>939042
>I have a document with big numbers with a sticky with my name on it

So you're some shitty accountant at vanguard?

[iHaz !MILLiOnz/Q No.939081]

>>939049
>If you worked at a bank, or as a actuary or accountant, couldn't you just pull that from one of the files and pretend that it was yours?
Sure. Also, I could steal it from my neighbors mailbox. Or I could print fake statements, three-hole punch them, and pass them off as legit.

You're new here, and I can't expect everyone to know my post history on /biz/. This is especially true since we lost our permanent archive and my older posts are lost forever. So at the end of the day, you're free to believe or disbelieve as you choose.

>>939050
>Nice trust fund.
No, I earned my wealth. I did inherit $250K a few years back, for which I'm grateful, but I was already a multi-millionaire at that point.

>>939065
As I told the other newfriend, you're free to believe or not believe whatever you wish. I'll never be able to provide 100% definitive evidence of my wealth without giving up personal details, which will never happen.

But thinking that I work at Vanguard is about the dumbest suggestion possible. Someone posting a client's personal financial statement would face not only immediate termination, but also civil and likely criminal charges. Seems like a pretty stupid thing to do for someone otherwise gainfully employed at a solid company.

Look, I get that you're never going to admit you're wrong. Its an anonymous message board, so other that the humiliation you're suffering in this thread, there's no reason for you to admit your errors. Eventually this thread will fade away, and no one will ever know what an idiot you are (at least not from this thread). So that's fine.

But the fact remains that you recommended <50% allocation of equities to an audience primarily comprised of 18-26 year olds (>>937741). That's objectively bad advice, and I called you on it. My critique is valid regardless of my net worth, because dumb advice is still dumb advice regardless of who points it out. And that's what really matters here.

[Anonymous No.939089]

>>939081
>telling people they should retain 50% of their assets somewhere that guarantees secure returns with no loss is bad advice

The markets are volatile as hell for someone who doesn't know what they are doing aka 18-26 year olds. Half of them are investing in penny stocks. Even if you invest intelligently market crashes happen every few decades like clockwork, if you put it all in stocks you're going to take a huge hit and unless you have something to fall back on you aren't going to be able to recover those losses even when the market swings back.

[Homer Simpson No.939094]

Lost 90%-100% on few investments and trades. That's the market.

[Anonymous No.939095]

>>939081
>I earned my wealth
Doing what?

[iHaz !MILLiOnz/Q No.939099]

>>939089
There's been some short-term volatility, but no excuse for making wholesale changes from the standard asset diversification model. Young investors have decades of investing horizon. What happens in the Fall of 2015 means less than nothing in the long-term (especially since what has happened is hardly noteworthy).

>market crashes happen every few decades like clockwork
>if you put it all in stocks you're going to take a huge hit
Citation fucking missing. You're advocating some form of market-timing here, and that's even worse than your asset allocation advice. You don't know what the markets are going to do next week, next month, or next year. Neither do I, and neither does anyone else. So stop pretending to have some special insight, because all academic research to date says that market timing does nothing but impair your returns.

>>939095
I worked in Biglaw for about 15 years, and opened my own law firm after that.

[Anonymous No.939100]

>>939042
How much of this is from securities? Making millions by trading is pretty exceptional so I'm guessing you had a successful side venture.

[Anonymous No.939102]

>>939089
If you invested wisely, good companies pay dividends and stay on markets even after the crash. Value of the stock is not everything.

[Anonymous No.939107]

>>939099
Exactly, you don't know. Which is why you retain 50% of your assets in other securities. You can easily still get a clean 10% return off those.

The point is eventually the market is going to do something you do not expect and you are going to take a hit, throw all your money into one area and you have no way to come back from that hit. You're implying I'm saying you need to somehow get a fortune teller to tell you exactly when that hit will come, I'm not but I don't care who you are, one day the market will do something that bites you in the ass. If an investor puts 100% of their savings into the market and then it suddenly crashes severely in 2016 they lose basically everything and don't have any fall back assets to re-invest in the market as it's swinging back. Keeping a reserve for such a day makes sense when they are virtually guaranteed to happen at some point every few decades.

Young investors do have decades on the horizon, so why risk all their money instead of risking half and adding to the amount they're risking each year steadily while they learn?

They'll end up with the same knowledge 10 years down the line but a lot more in the bank instead of jumping from speculation to speculation until it blows up in their face.

[Anonymous No.939108]

>>939102
The return off first rate stock dividends is low as hell, you might as well just invest in bonds. You'll get a greater return and it's even safer.

[Anonymous No.939114]

>>936642
OPBL
>mic drop

[Anonymous No.939135]

>>939107
What if you sat out the 1980s or 1990s waiting for the eventual crash? You'd have missed out on huge gains.

[Anonymous No.939148]

>>939135
Who said anything about sitting out? I said keep a reserve that makes safe residuals. Then when the market does crash you can reinvest in the upswing and get right back to where you were.

You act like 50% of your total savings is a pittance, it might be for you but 50% of total assets in stocks is a lot of money for most.

[iHaz !MILLiOnz/Q No.939158]

>>939107
There's a awful lot wrong in this post, so let's jump right in.

>Which is why you retain 50% of your assets in other securities. You can easily still get a clean 10% return off those.
I'd like to know, specifically, what investments you consider a safe alternative to equities that return 10% per annum.

Not bonds. Bonds historically return about 5.5% on average, and while they're generally safer than equities, even bonds lose value year-over-year 16% of the time. Bonds have their place in a well-diversified portfolio, but in today's interest rate environment its hard to see any young investor putting more than 10% into fixed income. Frankly, I don't blame young investors for passing on bonds altogether, at least for now.

Not real estate. Real estate is just as volatile as equities, and is highly correlated to the equity markets in any event. Hard real estate requires large capital investment (plus time and expertise) and soft real estate offers no greater expected rate of return than stocks.

So what does that leave? Private equity? Alternative investing? Mezz financing? All good choices, but simply not available to the vast majority of young investors on this site. They neither have the capital requirements nor the qualifications to get into these investments in the first place.

So I'll anxiously await your advice on the investment that's safer than equities and that returns 10% per year.

>you have no way to come back from that hit
Of course you do. Time. All you have to do is not sell when the market drops, which is just basic knowledge. Long term investing means you ride out the ups and downs of the markets, and you don't make changes in your plan based on short term market swings.

(cont.)

[iHaz !MILLiOnz/Q No.939163]

>>939107
>one day the market will do something that bites you in the ass
Yup, but most days it will reward you. Unfortunately you don't which days will be which. Fortunately, you do know that the good days substantially outnumber the bad days, in number and magnitude. So the winning play is to be in the markets for as long as possible.

You make it sound like timing the markets is as easily as looking at a stock chart. This is a common mistake of newb investors. In fact, its the second most common mistake made by investors, according to the Dalbar studies (the first being paying too much in investment fees).

The reason is pretty simple. In order to successfully time the market, you have to guess right _twice_ because you have to be correct on both your entry and exit points. Get one wrong, and you'll underperform the markets. On top of that, you have to overcome the transaction costs of your trading activity, and the tax consequences of your trades. All these factors weigh against the likelihood that any one attempt at market timing will be correct. Now try repeating that time and time again. The odds are so heavily stacked against you that its worse than playing the lottery.

>If an investor puts 100% of their savings into the market and then it suddenly crashes severely in 2016 they lose basically everything
What? If (big if) the markets fall in 2016, an investor will still own the same number of shares that they did before the market moved. They didn't lose anything. The current value has dropped, in the short term, but no losses exist.

You can't let emotion drive your investment decisions. Short term movements, even large drops, are temporarily in the big picture. The odds say your investments will not only pop back up, but will increase (as expected) over the length of your investment horizon. The only dumb thing you can do it lose your cool and sell, which is what you're suggesting.

(cont.)

[Anonymous No.939172]

>>939163
You keep bringing up market timing and acting like I said anything about predicting it. I've repeatedly pointed out I've said nothing of the sort. At this point I am sure you are intentionally misunderstanding me to create a strawman easier to tear down because you are just blatantly misinterpreting what I said over and over. It has nothing to do with market timing, it has to do with making sure you keep a reserve in safe securities.

>all you have to do is stay in and not sell

To some degree yes, but whenever you have a collapse you are going to see a lot of companies sink and never return but if you are diversified enough then yes you just have to be patient and unemotional. But more importantly if you have a reserve outside the market it enables you to re-invest a sizable sum at the now drastically reduced prices and make a killing when the market swings back. This doesn't require any timing, just patience and diligence. Keeping a reserve let's you make moves when everyone else is just trying to hold on until the next bubble.

I suppose if we're continuing on purely focusing on a young investor with no major capital or knowledge then yes, 10% return is highly unlikely. Yet in there position I'd still put away at least 20% in bonds and mutual funds for the steady residual.

Real estate is just like the stock market except it's isolated, a stock market collapse doesn't mean the real estate market will also collapse and just like the stock market if you look at it as a long term investment you will always come out on top. It takes time to build up capital to do so but it's safe and easy to make a large return off of if you have the capital to sit on it as long as needed.

[iHaz !MILLiOnz/Q No.939175]

>>939107
>Keeping a reserve for such a day makes sense when they are virtually guaranteed to happen at some point every few decades.
Sounds reasonable in theory, but the science proves otherwise. Even if you adopt the most benign form of market timing -- dollar cost averaging -- the studies show that lump sum investing outperforms DCA 66% of the time. Why? Because time in market is one of the biggest factors that will determine your long-term performance in the markets. And since the markets go up a lot more often than they go down, you want to get your money in and leave it in for as long as possible. Holding "dry powder" will lose you money 2/3rds of the time. That's awful odds.

>Young investors do have decades on the horizon, so why risk all their money instead of risking half and adding to the amount they're risking each year steadily while they learn?
What's there to learn? A smart young investor will open a 4-fund portfolio, or buy an all-in-one fund and hold it until retirement. What they shouldn't do is sit on large chunks of cash or bonds hoping to time a big score, which is what you're suggesting.

>a lot more in the bank
Proven false. See above.

>jumping from speculation to speculation
Classic strawman. No one's arguing here for penny stocks, day trading, FOREX, or options. Those would all be bad advice.

What we're arguing is whether a young investor should have an equity allocation of less than 50%, as you contend. I've refuted every reason you've suggested so far for that advice. Also, I'm not alone in my position, as you'd see from any respected investment advice out there. Even the venerable "100-Your Age in Bonds" (which is quite conservative these days) doesn't support your crackpot advice.

(cont.)

[iHaz !MILLiOnz/Q No.939178]

>>939148
>Who said anything about sitting out? I said keep a reserve that makes safe residuals.
WTF? Sitting out means not being invested in equities, which is by definition what you're advising. If you're not in stocks, you can't realize the gains from stocks. >>939135 is 100% correct in pointing out the opportunity cost of sitting on "dry powder." Not only does it not work (statistically speaking) but it comes with a price.

>You act like 50% of your total savings is a pittance, it might be for you but 50% of total assets in stocks is a lot of money for most.
50% is 50% for everyone. And making suboptimal investment decisions on half your portfolio is going to put you significantly behind your peers who follow sound investment practices. All wealth is relative. Your advice will cause people to fall behind, and that's almost as bad as losing it outright.

[iHaz !MILLiOnz/Q No.939185]

>>939172
>You keep bringing up market timing and acting like I said anything about predicting it. I've repeatedly pointed out I've said nothing of the sort.
Your posts tell a different story.

>>939089
>Even if you invest intelligently market crashes happen every few decades like clockwork
market timing
>>939089
>unless you have something to fall back on you aren't going to be able to recover those losses
market timing
>>939107
>one day the market will do something that bites you in the ass
market timing
>>939107
>If an investor puts 100% of their savings into the market and then it suddenly crashes severely in 2016 they lose basically everything
market timing
>>939107
>don't have any fall back assets to re-invest in the market as it's swinging back
market timing>>939107
>Keeping a reserve for such a day makes sense
market timing
>>939107
>makes sense when they are virtually guaranteed to happen at some point every few decades
market timing
>>939172
>if you have a reserve outside the market it enables you to re-invest a sizable sum at the now drastically reduced prices
market timing
>>939172
>Keeping a reserve let's you make moves when everyone else is just trying to hold on until the next bubble
market timing

I do see that you're back-tracking quickly on some of more outlandish assertions (safe 10% return; 50% bond positions). I still don't have the sense that you understand the topic well enough to give any advice at all, but I'm honor bound to acknowledge that you seem to be admitting some of your earlier mistakes.

[Anonymous No.939222]

>>939185

Good posts man. I'm gonna dump some more cash into my 4 fund portfolio today. Only problem, it's made a 1% gain today. I want to avoid buying high, but I also don't trust myself to "time the market" (e.g. what if it goes up another 1% tomorrow).

I'm conflicted. I know DCA doesn't work as well as lump sum investment, and you shouldn't try to time the market, BUT Graham warned against buying a stock because it was going up (but I'm holding ETFs, which will always be going up).

I'm leaning towards just buying it now, while at a high.

[Anonymous No.939303]

>>939175
>>939178
>>939185
This is all 100% correct, but only from a perspective of informed economics and finance supported by theoretical models and decades of empirical research.
OP, on the other hand, is clearly a one-in-a-generation financial genius here in his garage with all his bookshelves and 5 mentors. Let him have his fun and save your breath, mate.

[Anonymous No.939331]

>>939185
>market timing
>market timing
>market timing

Right, right, right.
But what would you say gave you an upper hand with your timing?

[Anonymous No.939348]

>>936887
>When you are certain that the market is overreacting

lol the market hasn't even begun to react yet.

I know a couple people who work in the energy sector. they just recently started announcing pay-cuts due to lower oil prices. this is literally only the beginning.

[Anonymous No.939349]

>>939222
When you hold etf s long term you must dollar cost average to get the best return, this means buying 3-4 times per year regardless of what the market is doing, that way, over 10-30 years you will have a nice average price for your etfs and will have made them gains

[Anonymous No.939356]

>>939349

see

>>939175

its gone up by 1.5% now.

[Anonymous No.939438]

>>939303
I'm not OP retard

Good job being a pathetic little cock sucker who doesn't actually know anything though.

[Anonymous No.939443]

>>939185
>your posts tell a different story
Except they dont. Point out exactly where I said the key is to get in and out before the crashes. Nowhere.

>market timing
No, because I'm not trying to guess before the market crashes, as I've explained twice. I see now you are purposely misunderstanding me to create a strawman because you have absolutely no other argument.

[Anonymous No.939446]

>>939185
>50% bond positions

also never said that dummy, I said 50% in securities that aren't the stock market. Bonds should make up about 10% at most of that.

It's obvious you don't have any real points since you have to constantly change what my posts said to fit your strawman.

[Anonymous No.939453]

>>939178
>not only does it not work (statistically speaking)

Gonna need a citation on that one

[Anonymous No.939507]

>>939185
10/10, i love reading these

[Anonymous No.939524]

Well another potentially really good thread with interesting discussion turns to shit because two retards want to argue about some unrelated bullshit that no one cares about. On to the next one

[Anonymous No.939577]

>>936921
i could have been a millionaire

[iHaz !MILLiOnz/Q No.939581]

>>939453
>Gonna need a citation on that one
Here you go, sport:

https://pressroom.vanguard.com/content/nonindexed/7.23.2012_Dollar-cost_Averaging.pdf

Let me know if you need anything explained to you.

[Anonymous No.939723]

>>939158
>>939163

fucking rekt

[Anonymous No.939753]

>>939723

The only way >>939453 could row back from this anal devastation is if he posted timestamped proof that he's actually Warren Buffett.

[Anonymous No.939764]

>>939753
...the devastation was VERY anal

[Anonymous No.939770]

>>939453
Gonna need you to understand passive buy and hold strategy.

Just stop, man.

[Anonymous No.939906]

>>939438
>>939443
>>939446
lol this kid. you are timing the market if you expect the market to crash. what if QE infinity never causes the market to drop more than 15%? then you'll never know when to get in and then you've completely fucked yourself

iHaz is right and what he says should applied to pretty much 99.99% of the people that visit this board

[Anonymous No.939927]

It's alright, I've lost like 17k today.

6k in oil futures, 12k in DOW futures. On the flip side, made 2k with aapl and RUSL recently. So, it'll come back.

[Anonymous No.939945]

>>939927
>trading oil futures

god bless. you couldn't have chosen a more unpredictable market for the short/midterm

[Anonymous No.940969]

>>939581
m8 what would you recommend to someone who is starting off - I'm interested in share trading. But thinking of using funds - or look at what the funds are invested in and invest in those shares.

So basically picking certain top40 companies.

But do you have any tips, like I read in this thread and saw that no day trading.