/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>9934512
property is a ponzi scheme.

>>9934512
>It can only be profitable as long as new joiners come and buy in with new money.
No, it is also profitable with dividends coming in, or simply higher valuation of a company.

>>9934530
so it must get either new investors or new sales

>>9934512
You're thinking of crypto market
Stocks are regulated and related to businesses that actually do stuff like have EPS and pay dividends. They're boring and less volatile tho. Listen to the neckbeards buy crypto

>>9934565
>new sales
That's the point of a company
>new investors
it doesn't need them for the prices to rise

>>9934512
>It can only be profitable as long as new joiners come and buy in with new money.
You're a fucking ignorant idiot. The reason exchange traded companies take on debt is to finance expenditures that allow them to either grow their customer base or introduce efficiencies that increase profit margins or release new product lines or brand extensions: i.e. make more cashflow in the future.

As a shareholder you own a 'share' of the book value of the company minus debt, the successful expenditure increases future cashflow which in turn makes your share more valuable than the price you paid for it.
The fact that you don't understand this means you don't belong on this board, your financial illiteracy is disgusting!

>>9934600
ponzis also rely on new sales

>>9934512
The stock market is the BTC that is forever pumped with Federal Reserve tethers

>>9934629
God you small brain faggot. Get the fuck out of mommies basement.

>>9934682
nice argument u fucking faget

>>9934692
No arguments to made against your utter retardation.

>>9934566
It's ok grandpa, go to bed.

>>9934512
Stocks represent companies that provide products or services

Property can be used to charge rent or operate business

Cryptos are literally just numbers on a computer

>>9934512
Stocks are a legal portion of ownership of the entity you are purchasing. Crypto is an intangible asset. When you purchase 1 share of amazon you are literally purchasing 1 liece of Amazon and because it's a corporation are entitled to a say in how the company is run equal to the portion of stocks you own and entitled to a share of profits equal to that portion as well aka dividends.

Crypto is purely speculative, there's is no tangible asset nor controlling stake involved, it's more like your purchasing digital futures. So oil or beef or orange juice concentrate. Your basically betting that this token or coin will increase, or decrease if you're shorting, in value.

Stocks and crypto really aren't that similar except they're both a financial investment. That's not to say one is more valid than the other but drawing g distinction between as being similar or like one another is if ignorant.

>>9934512
check out PPT (plunge protection team) its literally what Finex did in 2017 except for the stock market.

>>9934709
you wouldnt be capable

>>9934512
still less ponzi than crypto

>>9934512
who is that boy?

>>9934733
In theory, yes its a piece of a company so you become an owner. In reality you have absolutely no control over how a company operates and the direction it takes. If the board decides to cut/issue dividends, you can't do jack shit to opposite it with your dozen shares. Sure they'll send you a proxy vote package to vote on the chairman and their compensation once in a while, but thats not what I call ownership. I had stocks in my TFSA account here in Canada but got rid of them all. Hated feeding the boomer machine

>>9934512
sniff

>>9934718
Touche lel lel

>>9934512
Did u forget to take your autism pills anon? baka

>>9934767
>In reality you have absolutely no control over how a company operates and the direction it takes.
With enough shares some investors become "activists" and do boss the chairman around.
You can get hostile takeovers and corporate raids if they don't play ball.

>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_raid

>>9934733

>Your basically betting that this token or coin will increase, or decrease if you're shorting, in value.

That's literally the exact same thing with stocks. Why would anyone buy a stock if it's value just kept going down and down all the way to zero? Same with crypto.

>>9934767
That's why a controlling stake is so important which board members maintain a lot of time. I'm not saying stocks a fair in that respect but that is how they operate in paper. Crypto is a product created by an organization or person. BTC and Ethereum we could say go a little beyond that because their purpose is not intended to act as a product but rather a utility... See where this is going? But coins like Ripple, or TRX or Req, that gets really murky as to their purpose. They're almost like Disneyland money. Useless outside their self contained eco system.

>>9934512
Imagine being this stupid

>>9934870
Ok but a crypto by nature doesn't pay dividends. Also you can buy stocks with the expectation of decrease in value, that's what's called shorting and you can do it with anything. Remember if by some economic Harry Potter bullshit all of Amazon's stock just up and vanished, like literally Thanos snapped his fingers and Amazon's stock vanished, Amazon would not exist anymore. If XRP had the same thing happen Ripple would still be there. A stock is physical ownership of that entity. Crypto is a digital asset. You don't own shit over at Ripple just because you have 1m XRP. You're not entitled to dividends, even if they promise it, and you have no controling stake in Ripple at all and never would. Most crypto is a product of a company not the company itself.

>OP being this retarded

holy fuck this dumb sub 80 IQ nigger is never going to make it

>>9935025

There are coins that give dividends, BIX for example. It'a the same shit bro. You buy stocks/crypto to get more money out of it than you put in. Or short which you can do with crypto aswell.

>>9934512
All investing is driven by greater fool's theory.

>>9935025
There is a plenty of coins which pay dividends. NEO, LISK, ARK, from the top of my head.

capitalism is a ponzi scheme, dude

>>9935132

>>9935147
capitalism is a ponzi scheme, dude

You've misunderstood the difference between speculation and investment, but that's rooted in your failure to understand what goes into a stock's price.

>>9935147
>implying I'm wrong

I'm not moralistic about it, I'm just trying to profit from it

>>9935159

Let me guess , what you're doing is smart investing and what other people are doing is just dumb speculation right?

>>9935330
No, speculation means anticipating market movements in a given asset class, investment means anticipating future cashflow of a specific asset.
George Soros is a speculator
Warren Buffett is a value investor
both are incredibly rich proving both strategies are valid when applied properly.

>>9934512
The absolute state of the crypto "traders" on here.

The only reason the stock market is increasing in value over time is because money keeps being printed over time. It has to go somewhere, so most goes into the stock market. Its just inflation. However the printing press money isnt used to buy consumer goods so it looks like you are making money.

>>9935439
I think you're confusing how low interest rates causes overpriced stockmarkets as investors looking for better returns on their cash go into equities. The reason the stock market increases over time is two fold: firstly general demographics means there's more potential customers and more of a labor pool to choose from and secondly it's because of what in biology they would call 'selection pressure' - well run companies with established processes for making products or goods find minor efficiencies that compound over time, while companies that fail to find those efficiencies generally get cannibalized by slightly more lean companies. Over time, across an entire economy these small efficiencies add up as industry knowledge accumulates and processes because ever more streamlined and become popularly known as "best practice".

On a related note Top 200/500 Indexes are not good indicators of a over-all stock market's performance as by design they only include the most valuable, and therefore companies that grow the most to become largest. It's a 'survivorship bias' as the bottom 10 is constantly replenished by better functioning businesses which are themselves outliers and not indicative of average market performance.

>>9934512
No its not.

The companies pay out cash (dividends) to me every month or every quarter.

I have part owenership of them and a claim to their profits.

>>9935508
company earnings has little to no effect on share price. Amazon is sitting on 129 to 1 price to earnings for instance. It really is just money printing, or low interest rates if you want to call it that.

>>9935508

He isn't confusing anything. Confusing something implies that he knows or understands something in the first place. He's another /pol/yp who wandered over here and assumes that the Fed "prints" money and that the money being "printed" is going directly to pay the Rothschilds and various other boogiemen.

You're not going to have a reasonable discussion with these people.

>>9934728
And how do I make money from these?

>>9934512
is that a lad

>>9934512
>dude how is life any different from a ponzi scheme?

>>9936163
doesn't matter bro 8==========>~~ ~

>>9936412

This. When you are born you're basically at the mercy of people who were born before you. You have to play the game they setup for you. It's literally a ponzi scheme.

>>9935439
That definitely has a lot to do with it. Inflation (higher prices) hits a few areas more than others. Especially when you can borrow money to buy something.

Technology and even food aren't hit as much. Cars, a little, because you can borrow some money for it.
Rent, school and healthcare are hit the hardest. That's where the big loans come in.

Rent (real estate) is inflated, since a lot of huge loans (mortgages) are offered there (even with no money down).
-When you can't pay (default/go bankrupt), the bank gets the house back (foreclosure).
-In the case where everyone can't pay (like the '08 crash), and the banks get a way cheaper house (underwater), the gov comes in and covers all the loses (merrill/bofa/aig bailout).

School (college) is inflated, because a lot of huge loans (mainly federal guaranteed) are handed out (no money down/no income verification).
-When you can't pay, the gov seizes your paycheck (garnishes wages) to pay it off. You can't go bankrupt against the fed like you can with private banks. So they garnish your wages until you die, to eventually get their money back.

Healthcare is inflated because you need it, and have no choice but to deal with the massive bill you get.
-When you can't pay, you get your assets seized via bankruptcy to cover the bill.

Stocks are also inflated, since a lot of margin loans are offered there.

>>9935439
That definitely has a lot to do with it. Inflation (higher prices) hits a few areas more than others. Especially when you can borrow money to buy something.

Technology and even food aren't hit as much. Cars, a little, because you can borrow some money for it.
Rent, school and healthcare are hit the hardest. That's where the big loans come in.

Rent (real estate) is inflated, since a lot of huge loans (mortgages) are offered there (even with no money down).
-When you can't pay (default/go bankrupt), the bank gets the house back (foreclosure).
-In the case where everyone can't pay (like the '08 crash), and the banks get a way cheaper house (underwater), the gov comes in and covers all the loses (merrill/bofa/aig bailout).

School (college) is inflated, because a lot of huge loans (mainly federal guaranteed) are handed out (no money down/no income verification).
-When you can't pay, the gov seizes your paycheck (garnishes wages) to pay it off. You can't go bankrupt against the fed like you can with private banks. So they garnish your wages until you die, to eventually get their money back.

Healthcare is inflated because you need it, and have no choice but to deal with the massive bill you get.
-When you can't pay, you get your assets seized via bankruptcy to cover the bill.

Stocks are also inflated, since a lot of margin loans are offered there

>>9934512
is that a girl or boy, either why i want it bouncing on my dick

>>9935085
Companies pay dividends with the profits they earned. Crypto pays dividends by printing coins, basically screwing over anyone dumb enough to hodl or buy

>>9936979
You're dumber than OP desu.