/biz/ - Business & Finance

not until SEC and IRS has an actual court ruling, bucko

>Americans can't legally participate in ICOs
OH SAY CAN YOU SEE

>>9718066
how are they going to catch me when i convert everything to monero
#owned

>>9718120

When your bank automatically reports that large sum being deposited into your bank account with from Coinbase or Gemini

>dabs

>>9718098
kys

>>9718375
damn too bad that doesn't trigger your crypto-to-crypto taxable event except for the one from monero to btc/eth/whatever is used to cash out

>>9718375
>>9718437
lmao NIGGA YOU JUST GOT OWNE'D
#OWNED

>>9718120
You haven't thought this through. Sure, if you just want to have some large balance you can never use, you'll be fine.

As for me, yes I am aware of the tether issue. That's why I've never used it. Americans are at a huge disadvantage when it comes to crypto. It's incredibly fucked.

>>9718455

Basically forced to hold.

You could just open an exchange account under fake ID documents that you got from the darknet retard.

Stupidest rule I've ever heard. If anyone actually pays for these transactions you deserve to lose all of your money

>>9718523
Yeah, no risk there. Do you not understand that in the future when you either move to fiat or make a big purchase in crypto (say a house or a car) that the IRS is eventually going to come sniffing? You may be able to evade them if you're only doing small purchases but you'll be living in constant fear (or should be). There's a high likelihood that you're not smart enough to out-smart them indefinitely. Personally, I want a nice life with my family, not jail time.

>>9718532
It's not that crazy, that's how it works with forex trading. Any time you make a profit the government wants a cut, they don't care what specific bullshit you're trading.

>>9718437

Heh... nothing personal kid but that's where you're wrong. But you're definitely smarter than the IRS.

>>9718571
The IRS is not omnipresent. And if you actually want to purchase a large item and do so in a legit way, tell me why you can't open an exchange account under your name, deposit monero, and sell to fiat, thus avoiding any per trade taxable events.

But really I don't know why ameritards are so paranoid about the IRS but there's plenty of ways to cash out undetected and launder money, and if the sum of crypto gains is really that significant that this is a concern, consider moving overseas. The world is much bigger than America.

>>9718844

Any deposit over $9,999.99 gets automatically reported to the IRS by your bank, (https://budgeting.thenest.com/happens-deposit-ten-grand-31132.html)) therefore simply saying "deposit monero" does not work because there needs to be a trail. "But muh monero is untraceable." The IRS does not care, they will get their cut whether there is a trade history or not. They will go through your accounts and find out how much you've deposited to exchanges versus what has been taken out.

>"But can't I just withdraw/depsoit $9,999.99 over and over and over again"

Sure thing champ, but when the bank gets suspicious and begins tracking multiple deposits/withdraws of $9,999.99 versus your history of small paycheck deposits of $1,200.00 biweekly, that's where the red flags go up and you get audited .

>"So move to another country"

Great idea, let's just start the whole process of getting work visas, scrounging up what little liquidity we have and move halfway across the world with no job, friends, family to prevent 15%-35% CGT. Why hasn't anyone throught of this!?

>>9718844
Because they're going to want to know WHERE that monero came from. They are also going to get increasingly aggressive about this because they aren't fucking around. There may not be a lot of history yet for how they'll deal with this stuff but rest assured they won't just let it slide.

just don't deposit it to your bank you brainlets. keep it in crypto and use it to buy drugs or hookers or gold bullion

>>9719175
Again, would be people really be investing this time and effort if they thought they'd only be able to spend their earnings on drugs and hookers? If that's all you want, you'll probably be fine. I think most Americans that think they'll live opulent lives with their earnings and have no problems with the IRS are deluded and short-sighted.

>>9719203

Most traders are probably anywhere between 18-30 and have zero experience in dealing with stocks/bonds/trading in which they would need to actually report taxes

>>9718066
tax season is next year dumbass.

>>9719225
I agree. They're naive and will probably get fucked eventually.

>>9719229

Oh boy thanks captain obvious! Have you accurately been logging all your trades or are you going to be importing all your API's a week before it's due?

I think most people are aware Binance lets you trade anonymously for now.

>>9719278

That's just fantastic but that's not the point, you can trade with anonymity with all your hearts desire. The moment you withdraw to your bank account, that's when you need to worry.

>>9719139
"Some random donated it to me in exchange for a pizza back in 2012."

What now IRS?

>>9719313
But that is what your thread is about? You said when I 'tethered' up, not when I withdrew to my bank account.

I don't give a shit about paying taxes when I cash out. My state doesn't even have an income tax kek.

>>9719333
Ok, now they force you to hand over your wallet address to see it's history. Next they get your information from Binance and Coinbase and they track those wallets too. They also seize your computer. You still good? Some people may be successful, I admit that. I think the vast majority will have fucked up somewhere.

>>9719338

You've indicated you can trade anonymously, anonymous or not, trading is a triggering event.

>>9719333
There would be a record of that on the blockchain, which they are learning how to audit.
I'm not worried though, I started late in 2017, broke even, and have only massive losses so far in 2018!

>>9719364

And to add on to this, there is software that can import all your trade history & API's to give an accurate representation of what you will be owing

>>9719369
Sure. And while we are at it, when they bust drug dealers in america, their "largest" crimes in court are not paying taxes on their 'business transactions' because those too are triggering events.

No one gives a shit.

>>9719401

It's this kind of arrogance that's going to fuck you over in the end :^). Can't wait for you to use that defense at your tax evasion trial! I'm going to put you in the 18-30 bracket. I understand that crypto is your first experience with "trading" but it's the law.

https://www.coindesk.com/owe-irs-crypto-crypto-trades/

Ignorantia juris non excusat

>>9719203
Here's an idea. Cash out via darknet vendors that mail u cash for BTC and localbtc using fake IDs.

Use it to fuel your living expenses for the foreseeable future. Groceries, outings, clothes - pay cash for everything you can. Put all legit wages into property and non cash big items.

Diversify and buy some gold/alternative assets and store in secure storage. Use as your emergency fund.

The IRS is extremely under resourced, they go after big fish. If you don't do anything obvious that sets off immediate flags like structuring/layering then you should be fine.

You could easily start a small business and launder some funds every year. As long as you do some basic research and aren't laundering a ridiculous amount you'll be fine.

Truth is hundreds of thousands of people get away with it all the time, and they're probably laundering much large amounts than you're concerned with.

>>9719432
To you I say, good luck. I certainly don't care personally if you cheat the IRS.

Lol retard, there's no such record if it's monero. Duh.

>>9718066

I think it's only crypto to fiat that is taxable in most of the EU countries tho.

>>9719462

lol retard, the IRS doesn't care if there is a record. They see that $10,000.00 deposit into your bank account they're going to want to know where it's from and they will find out.

Good luck!

>>9719422
>arrogance

rofl have you even met an american before friendo, maybe stay on your side of the pond, I dont think you'd cut it here

>>9718375
But you can buy stuff with XMr.

>>9719313
>use local bitcoins
>meet up with some dude at wherever the fuck
>swap phone codes and pay out in physical cash

????

>>9719484

I'm from Pennsylvania newfriend

>>9719492
>>9719505

Only delaying the inevitable!

>>9718066
My exchange keeps track of all trades for me.

>tx 4 ur cudzerd

>>9719364
Fuck are you on about.

Someone sends me 10,000 monero. There's no wallet history. I open an exchange account and deposit the funds there and immediately sell for BTC and then to USD. The only "history" is the exchange showing a deposit and one trade.

What now? They seize my computer? Under what grounds? And even if they do, they find absolutely nothing because there is nothing to be found, I've DBANed my hard drives (not that it even matters here).

Yall are some brainlets honestly. The gov can't do shit and you guys sound like little kids thinking that they have the resources to go after the billions in crypto gains that have probably already been laundered.

>>9719540
Like I said man, good luck to you. Hope you get away with it.

>>9719540

>the government
>can’t do shit
>muh anonymous currency

Jesus Christ the delusion is off the chart

>>9719479
Lol, acting like 10K is even worth investigating you, it's not. HSBC got away with laundering billions for drug cartels for years and then just got a slap on the wrist. Come on.

People get 10K deposits all the time, gifts, selling services, etc.

>>9719587
Buisness sccounts absolutely. Personal accounts? that gets reported by your bank to the irs. Not sure why you keep attempting to justify and rationalize your blatant tax evasion lol

Like I said I know this is your first time trading an asset, but you need to play by the rules senpai

>>9719587
These large entities are "too big to fail". Governments will never properly fuck them because they generate too much revenue and are too important to the system. Guys like you and me on the other hand...

Bitch I don't even report cash gains. You think I'm going to report some lines of code on a server in Malta? Fuck outta here

>>9719611
How many of those 10K deposit triggers do you think get set off daily? Do you think that they investigate every single one? No, they have automated algorithms that establish patterns of layering before they even open up an investigation.

And like I said, with something like Monero (and there are certainly other options), they simply CANNOT prove that you did not obtain them legitimately. You could have mined them in the early days, you could have bought them on a now defunct exchange, they could have magically appeared in your wallet one day. Zero ways to prove or disprove the origins of the funds.

>>9719694

100% of +$10,000.00 get reported daily because it is a federal regulation.

As for the Monero all I can say is best of luck in the future!

>>9719750
Ok and how many of those result in an actual conviction?

I'm quite certain that it's a negligible amount.

>>9719799

Not all of them turn into a conviction..... it's called paying "back taxes" & having your paycheck diminished.

But you know what, you're absolutely right in everything. I continually forget that a bunch of autist NEETs from /biz/ who buy tokens called stinky linky and niggercoin are more intelligent & savvy than the combination of the masters & ph.d degree holders of U.S Government and IRS. We're definitely in the clear!

>>9719916

>paycheck

Did you forget where you are

All of these faggot nigger retards don't know it cost $1,500 to have an off shore bank account set up for you. You still have to declare your wealth, you just don't need to pay taxes on it, you pay the tax rate of that country. Maybe 10% taxes.

>>9719916
Most countries in the Balkans still have no crypto to crypto tax or income tax when you withdraw from exchanges. Feels fucking good.

>>9718066
Someone doesn't understand cost-basis

>>9720324

I'm confused how I don't understand cost-basis and it's relation to paying capital gains tax. Can you enlighten me?

>>9718375
Jokes on you I use all of my monero to buy steroids then sell them at a profit at my local gym tax free

>>9720471
It's not tax free, the responsibility to report that is on you.