/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>950376
They are autistic and good at getting work done for others.

Notice how it says income rather than net worth. Extroverted people employ them and get them to earn them money.

They don't kiss ass therefore are less likely to get promotions which come with higher incomes.

This chart looks like bullshit, INTPs wouldn't get promotions, but they would get more stem field jobs and make higher than average income

ENTJ MASTER RACE REPORTING IN

also highest earners.

>>950411
second'd

also
>personality type

>>950376

They don't play the game.

>Not citing sources

Are we in 5th grade?

>>950376

Business revolves around sales. Sales is the best paying job across the world.

Introverts are too caught up in the own complexes to sell shit. Have you ever seen an INTP try to cold call? Spaghetti all over the place.

>back in grade school I was INTP/J
>note ENTP
I'm OK with this.

Are introverts inferior?

>>950617
>Are introverts inferior?

Yes. Humans are social creatures.

>>950617
>>950619
Introverts are not inferior. Just about every genius that walked the earth can be called one.
The Myer-briss personality test has also been proven to be bullshit countless times.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myers%E2%80%93Briggs_Type_Indicator#Criticism

>>950523
As an intp in tec sales I can tell you my first year was rough....like really rough.

I was scared to talk to any one; dinners were a mess with clients, every Sunday I would only get 2 to 4 hr sleep because my blood pressure was through the roof. I would distract my self with "fixing"things to get thought the day. It is still hard and against the grain but I found a way to make it work. I stick to the point and use coffee meetings and working lunches to do most of my interpersonal sales. I keep the group size to 4 or less .I don't ask them about there personal lives I just get to the point "what are you having problems with What dont you like where do you see x going" and then I get out.

I still tinker with things far more then I should but every one in my department comes to me with there questions sooo maybe they keep me around just for that.

Idk made 90k last year but the just is really stressful.

>>950645
Sounds like beta-blockers would help you a ton.
Try and find some.

>>950643
>proven to be bullshit
>posts a wiki article
>the current year

>>950648
Better living through modern chemistry.

Introverts are unhappier, less successful, and make less connections. Why would any serious company hire one?

While being an introvert or extrovert can be a factor, lots of people in this thread are on arbitrary high horses. Compatibility with the business world is the important part, seeing as this is taken from the average population many people don't know how to make introversion work. If you're at all talented in this first place being an introvert will be just a small challenge to overcome. Also, introversion doesnt necessarily mean less social skills.

Because the business world is primarily comprised of teams and communication is essential.

Extroverts tend to have more friends and a lot of jobs (most?) are found through friends and not cold calling.

>>950376

Introverted people are valued, but they generally don't self-select or go for higher decision making positions. I've known quite a few brilliant coders who shuddered at the thought of becoming a project manager or team leader. People who are not highly communicative will gravitate toward accounting, analysis, coding, and quantitative business areas.

That said, there are a lot of problems with that chart. For one, the mean doesn't tell the whole story. The fact that CEOs and board level individuals are likely to be disproportionately extroverted would actually drive down the median income. Extroverted sales people making small commissions are actually a dime a dozen in comparison to those that are massively successful. I'd be curious whether or not introverts had higher median income than extroverts.

Also, Myers-Briggs personality typing has been discredited for decades in psychology. The "types" were essentially made up, and it has massive flaws in design. Over half of people will retest into a different type within a one year period, and these types are supposedly immutable. Not to mention things like introversion and extroversion run along a spectrum, whereas the types are 16 discrete entities. An INTJ who rates 51 in every area would be a diametric opposite to someone who rates 49 as an ESFP despite an 8 point difference over 4 areas, whereas an INTJ that rates 100 on all factors would be 196 points of difference in scale, but the same "type."

> why do Libras make more money than Geminis?

This is how retarded you sound with that Myers Briggs bs.

>>950382
>>950466


These.

>>950376
>tfw INTP, $80k at 23

Engineering master race

>>950376
I think one of the problems of this board is that people constantly look for the minor qualities of successful people in an attempt to emulate that success without doing any hard work.

The only necessary cause of success is luck and hard work.

Everything else is a fucking waste of time, where you could be working on an idea, instead of having a pissing competition about what pants to wear to earn the most money.

MBTI was also invented by two uneducated housewives, who were Jung fanboys. Don't get me wrong its fun, but don't pretend like theres any application to the test other than grouping people into how they answer arbitrarily selected self assessments.

>>951762

Supported.

>>952461

It's mostly luck.

There are plenty of people who get to high places simply because of who they are.

>>950617

Also is this Tim?

>>952461
>I think one of the problems of this board is that people constantly look for the minor qualities of successful people in an attempt to emulate that success without doing any hard work.

This desu. A good proof of that is the "Things rich people say" thread, stupidest waste of space I have ever seen. Yes, let's spend hours discussing whether donating to charity is a scam! Much better than read something useful, let's argue minutiae about rich people's lifestyles rather than work.

Reminds me of those people who argue nonstop about which dietary supplements to buy before going to the gym, then end up not going at all.

>>950617
Yes, at my work we usually weed them out during the interview stage by talking about sports however some manage slip by. When a new employee starts we usually banter hard and prank them and at the end of the week we invite them out to the bar, this successfully weeds out the remaining introverts because you can just tell from their demeanor they're not going to fit in.

>>950424
Bet you anything this faggot is unemployed.

INTP here. Making $75k barely 2 years in. But it does take a lot of energy to deal with people. I can easily see how the social ceiling starts to get in the way for introverts

>>952461

>tfw you twats realize that the real money in America isn't made by people who only work 40 hours a week.

And yes, I know you pedantic basementlords like to nitpick every time someone makes a declarative statement. Fuck you - I'm right.

>>950376

Business is built on sales. Sales requires extroverts.

>>952592

Nope, it requires marketing.

>>952598

marketing without sales is like a knife without an edge

>>950376

INTP here making ~$150k/yr ever since I dropped out of college to avoid taking a required public speaking class. No boss, no employees, not customer facing. No human interaction except for email.

Shit, I wonder how much I'd be making if I weren't introverted.

>>952810
Tai?

>>952598
You can't market anything introvertly

Wasnt there study where introverts where found to chair 40% of CEOs of big companies?

>>952845

Sure you can... Search Engine Marketing. Affiliate Marketing. Lead Generation.

>>950376

>mfw INTP

I make about $45K

>>952552
Then you get your shit Ellior Rodger'd and cry.

>>950619
I bet you define social as being on Facebook in a Starbucks
There are plenty of people that history deemed geniuses that were engaged intellectually and had very little to no social skills.

>>950376
>tfw intp making 60k

STEM was made for introverts.

>>954309
>I bet you define social as being on Facebook in a Starbucks

I don't, but nice /r9k/ meme.

I define it as easy to get along with, likable, able to think introspectively, do well in social situations and work as a collective.

Not being an autistic sperglord uptight faggot in other words.

>>952552
kek
Marketing/sales shit tier company employee detected.
Most megacorps don't care about anything besides the skill you're bringing to the table.

>>954317
>I define it as easy to get along with, likable, able to think introspectively, do well in social situations and work as a collective.
>implying you need that in 2015
>implying you can gauge inferiority and superiority based on that trait
Social skills are for corpo-'c'u'c'k's that can't afford to be assholes because they have no intellectual backbone. The important people don't even bother saying hello unless you're worth their time.

>>952810
>since I dropped out of college to avoid taking a required public speaking class
you're memeing too hard

>>954331
>The important people don't even bother saying hello unless you're worth their time.

>Implying you are or will ever be important
>Implying successful or important people get to the top by having autism and being unable to understand social cues

Your posts belong memetexted in a "things poor/successful people say" thread. Lmao tbqh, this board really is one huge meme now.

>>954339
>being introverted is being autistic
>introverts can't temporarily switch to extroversion whenever they need to

Dumb extrovert.

>>954343
Dumb /r9k/ introvert trying to defend his type A personality.

Stay cooped up in your room you virgin

>>954339
>devolves to calling everything a meme and starts taking things personally and moving goal posts
You're literally the extrovertard carbon copy

>>954346
>damage control this bad
You must be the type that takes the corporate dick without lube. How does it feel to have a 'profession' where your only skill is running your mouth because you're unable to do anything requiring an ounce of intellect?

>>954358
>How does it feel to have a 'profession' where your only skill is running your mouth because you're unable to do anything requiring an ounce of intellect?

>>954348
>You're literally the extrovertard carbon copy

>>954363
>spewing tumblr memes
Literally cancer

>>954365
>Literally cancer

>>954364

>being an introvert claiming superiority on an extrovert

so cute

>>954372
wrong reply?

>>954367
Can't match that. I've been outmemed. Good job winning the argument.

>>954379
>Can't match that. I've been outmemed. Good job winning the argument.

>>954380
We need more ebin memes!

What do the INTPs who aren't autist programmers do? I thought that would've brought them up a lot more.

>>954381
>Marketing/sales shit tier company employee detected.
>Most megacorps don't care about anything besides the skill you're bringing to the table.

>>954331
>Social skills are for corpo-'c'u'c'k's that can't afford to be assholes because they have no intellectual backbone. The important people don't even bother saying hello unless you're worth their time.

>>954384
>>954388
pretty dedicated damage control desu senpai

>>954390
>pretty dedicated damage control desu senpai

>>954348
>You're literally the extrovertard carbon copy

>>950376
It's an interesting argument. I would say it is difficult to lump together all personality types however, remembering that meyers-briggs is a spectrum of each letter and not an indication of 100% I or E, N or S. Therefore comparing one ESTJ to another is not strictly correct.

Also note that a number of very rich/powerful individuals tend to be introverted - introversion doesn't mean you can't cold call or socialize or aren't outgoing but more means that you get tired from doing so and need time alone. As and INTJ myself I consider myself heavily introverted but realize that the business world values people who are outgoing so I pretend when necessary to get ahead.

Knowing your personality type is a loose way of defining yourself but it can help you identify weaknesses and strengths - don't use it as a cage for what you are capable of, but a tool to make yourself better. If I can give advice to the no doubt numerous introverts on this board, it would be to fake it. There was a book, I wish I could remember it, that discussed the concept of introverts in the business world who became successful by having a 'separate' persona of a workplace extrovert, but then once they got tired would go hide in their office. A fascinating concept really.

>>954503

>trying to sound smart
>Not knowing how to spell Myers-Briggs

>>951736
Also an under rated post, specifically the part about the spectrum. As much as I enjoy MB personality types, as I said above one ENTJ is not the same as another, so it's a very broad way of defining your capabilities.
>>952612
Maybe back in the 1950's - most people, if not all, self select now and sales is a redundant job - the company I work for hit around 3bn revenue this year and doesn't have a single trained salesperson, just a very strong marketing team and a good business plan. All you need to do is get the message out there and if your product is at all desired or useful people will buy it themselves after researching it online - in most traditional sales roles the salesperson is viewed as a hideous snake that no one wants involvement with, and in any situation i've had that's dealt with a salesperson (real estate and cars for example) the salesperson has turned me off the purchase more than any other factor. Sales has its place in certain positions, as do salespeople, but at the end of the day business doesn't revolve around sales, but more around reputation, recognition, and talent.

>>954519
Interesting that of all things, that is all you point out.

Specialization Anon.
So you pick something to be your job. You do it so often you can do it in your sleep in 10-20 minutes. Because you refine your process.

The other 7.5 hours of the business day is spent finding the people to ask you to spend 20 minutes of your time in exchange for your value proposition.

Introverts have got a really limited social battery. An aggressive estimate would be 4 hours of day, before they start to get really anxious and need a break. The limited extrovert could talk for the whole day before needing a break.
So one is at an inherent spaghetti spilling disadvantage. The E could just wait patiently for the I to fold.
I and I interactions rarely occur b/c they'd rather do it themselves. and when they do often miscommunication causes work to be repeated.
E and E interactions can go long or they can go short depending on the interests of parties involved, this depends on time, budgets, and tolerances. Two E people could hammer out a proposal quickly in a rush, Dance around each other till the perfect arrangement is in order, or play the game to the absolute limits.

So E's come out on top in efficacy. assuming equally skilled at the the task at hand. With near auto wins against I's and 50/50 shots against other E's. So you've got predictable wins. vs predicable losses and mismanagement of resources.

We live in an extroverted world where introverts aren't taught how to harness their qualities.

Introverts can be persuasive and charismatic sellers (lower on average) it's just draining to them and they usually haven't had as many experiences as extroverts in these areas. The key is the quiet reflection afterwards, it's where the; improvement, motivation, rejuvenation and vision comes in.

I'm an introvert that understands the power of the spoken word to motivate people, raise armies, and move nations. I realized that communication is a skill that can be honed just like math or writing. I don't make idle chit-chat, but I can kind of turn on and off my "social mode" at will when the situation requires it.

>>956566

everyone can become aware of this. use comunication for good