/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>9465241
Bitmex/Bitfinex push the market up and down based on how much money they can liquidate. If there is more longs than shorts out there they will drop the price and visa versa. It's literally that simple.

This is why the market tends to do the exact opposite of what the general consensus is price wise. We can have all the good news in the world circulating but for some reason we still go down... guess why.

>>9465540
THIS! Fucking this.
That's the entire secret. Always check longs/shorts before investing. Cause what the anon said.

its 1 institutional crypto desk with a large inventory repeatedly squeezing levered positions. Use https://bitcoin.clarkmoody.com/tickers/ and watch tick by tick to see where it moves first, its normally bitfinex.

>>9465592
Delete this thread now!

>>9465630
Not my thread but yeah. The less people know the better, maybe....
I don't care, I'm fucking plankton still so whatever

>>9465592
Iv'e been screaming it since February which is around the time it started getting really bad/obvious. These 2 exchanges have been doing it for a while now but since there is very little "real, non-robot volume" it's become much clearer to see compared to the bullrun at the end of 2017.

What really pisses me off is that Bitmex nigger going on CNBC and saying "BTC to $50,000" when he is the one holding us back.

>>9465592
yeah sounds logical...
would you raccomand just observing the shorts/longs charts on tv? would you use some kind of Ta on those? like a simple rsi or stoch rsi on a 15min?

>>9465649
Oh but they are working with the "institutional money" that the idiots wanted so bad in this market.
That's not just exchanges. It goes deeper than that.
Crypto world when you in it for a while will make the worst tin hat theories look sane in comparison to what's going on.

>>9465671
you're missing the whole point here. TA won't help you when the ENTIRE market is being controlled by 2 exchanges.

>>9465671
Go here:
https://datamish.com/d/000000004/btcusd?refresh=20s&orgId=1
The best imo website for that.
Play with indicators and do some paper trading first and see how it correlates.
TA won't help, unless you have a way of incorporating this data somehow.
This shit is adding to the unpredictability of crypto.
Especially if you are trading altcoins.

D E L E T
E
L
E
T

We need Norman, roasties, and niggers for support when we sell, and we need them to keep on selling even when opening a long is the smart move. If you're good at something, never do it for free. And this info is powerful

Also

>>9465649
Yeah. OP is saying that the barts got better. They didn't. The market was still manipulated by whomever but the general volume covered it up.
Now, again they are making BTC look like a shitcoin.
I kind of think(may be completely wrong) that it's a several "institutions " working in tandem.
They fucking not only liquidate long/shorts.
They create an entire fake market. Too much to write about but it's big.

>>9465739
Yeah...You ain't the part of any "we" .
What we need is the institutional money out of this fucking market.
It's painfully obvious from the consensus that the suits are taking over.
I don't like it, even a little bit.

>>9465540
>>9465592
BitMex doesn't deal in real BTC tho, it's XBT there. So the pricemovements there have in theory no effect on the real price.

My theory from another thread:
watching big sells / buys on the other exchanges, it's not even fun.. 2 days ago it was 3700 BTC being bought and sold in single orders, like clockwork every time it spiked. next day the number was 2800 but same shit.

Someone is having a lot of fun going high lev on bitmex and then dumping huge bags on normie-exchanges

>>9465540
brainlet here, how do I check the amount of shorts vs the longs?

>>9465746
When you realize what's really going on it's absolutely terrifying. Not only have I been not using leverage trading I really don't even hold coins these days unless there is a guaranteed altcoin pump.

Crypto in 2018 is simply fucked.... this shit is no fun.

>>9465711
>https://datamish.com/d/000000004/btcusd?refresh=20s&orgId=1
thanks a lot anon.....cant wait for the next bear market so we can all discuss like people without all the pajeet shitcoin shills

>>9465780
on trading view you can add BTCLONGS and BTCSHORTS just as any other trading pair

>>9465780
https://www.bfxdata.com/positions/btcusd

one of many sources

>>9465774
>BitMex doesn't deal in real BTC tho, it's XBT there
Does not exclude them from the foul play. What do you think their bots base the price on?

>>9465783
There are money to be made.
There are a few projects that are going to be backed by the fucking suits.
I'm thinking that flippening will happen and for a reason(which coin and how, I have no clue)
These are not just 2 exchanges. This goes much deeper.
And the recent calls for regulations, institutional money, and taxes are a part of it.
CNBC btw is also a good predictor of where it's all going.

>>9465645
will that strategy work on binance?

>>9465856
Huh?
That strategy is for you to see where the price of BTC is going globally.
Binance has no margin trading so I have no clue what you are asking.

>>9465826
Oh for sure, I think they use the 100x lev on there to maximize the profits. But the real price manipulation is over on Finex in my books

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAYAh9e7KxA

its illegal in normal markets. its forcing liquidity on whales filling orders. prepare for megamoon friends

Last bart market (late march) dumped us to 6.5k

Low volume let's the whales bart margin traders to maximize profits before the big dump

Almost all exchange's liquidity bots run off of what the price on Bitfinex is.

Leveraged trading needs to be boycotted, we won't see natural growth in crypto until it happens. These absolute fucking faggots make way more off liquidating you than they do on trading fees. Mostly because the majority of that trading volume is fake.

and fuck the people who don't want to see leveraged trading removed I got into this hoping to see a 10trillion mcap eventually. Not to daytrade nervously like some autistic basement dweller.

>>9465882
Must watch for all newbies. And I mean it.
What we are seeing now it's what was used on alts for...well forever.
Now it's used on BTC.
Which makes the chart look like a shitcoin's chart. Which means big money(again I don't think it's only the 2 exchanges, they are working with suits)
>>megamoon
Can you elaborate?
This is also my thinking but would like your reasoning.

>>9465739
fuck of, why wouldnt you help a fellow bizbro out

>>9465936
Yeah.
I would also like to get rid of fucking futures.
It's not going to happen. More than that, we will see more of this shit.
You know the saying " Can't beat them, join them"?
Well that's exactly what's happening.
The corps are in.
Not legally, no. Because they can't for now.
But they are in. They joined the market and they will destroy it or change it to their liking.

>>9465937
>Which means big money(again I don't think it's only the 2 exchanges, they are working with suits)
Bitfinex has the most volume out of every exchange in the world, they say jump and the rest of exchanges say how high.. They don't need help from "suits".

>>9465739
>>9465630
I will continue to post about this shit until they stop.

>>9466011
>Bitfinex has the most volume out of every exchange in the world, they say jump and the rest of exchanges say how high.. They don't need help from "suits".

Since when does Bitfinex not already have the suits with them? They have OTC trading and have had it for a long time. They still have the same volume as OKEx and Binance tho, so they can't do just as they please

>>9466011
It's not help. It's collaboration.
Think about it.
You are a bank X. And you see this crypto market, a tiny pain in the ass entering and possibly eating your profits in not so advanced future. What do you do?
Wait for the SEC(for the US) or other regulators to step in?
Or do you say "Fuck that call the dudes from bank Y and let's think how to take it over"?
You then contact Bitmex and offer them a strategy and pay them for executing it.
And then you co-opt other exchanges.
Crypto market is fucking tiny, so the money needed to fuck with it are miniscule at best.
And that way you make sure that it won't become a problem in the future.
Of course it's just a theory. But that's what I would do.

>>9466093
During times where there is price action Bitfinex's volume surges well above those others. Also, just pull up a BTC graph on finex and binance.... binance reacts to finex. Just like every other exchange.

>>9466106
The proof would be to find a balance sheet of let's say JP Morgan or Goldman, but seriously, the money needed for that could be written off as fucking corporate expenses on clients. That's how small we are.

So what's their ultimate goal? To short this to the ground?

>>9465241
Damn you are slow anon this was evident since the first week of the run.

The entire market has been manipulated to shake out short-term speculators and margin traders. Almost like wallstreet and the exchanges want crypto to be a legitimate market with more long term investors or something.

>>9466194
Nope. They just want to liquidate high leveraged high value accounts all day. If you look at the Bitfinex cold wallets they are simply accumulating.

If there is any silver lining it is that Bitfinex is using the money they are making to accumulate more bitcoin. A double edged sword no doubt but I think realistically that equates to Bitfinex eventually feeling like they have enough BTC and finally sending it to the moon.

>>9465649
>What really pisses me off is that Bitmex nigger going on CNBC and saying "BTC to $50,000" when he is the one holding us back.


Well that's a sell signal if I ever saw one

>>9465746
>>9466217
it's the professionalization of crypto trading? retail traders trading against the best bots the best trading minds have developed?
there's been articles earlier this year about big names entering:

that boutique fund with the stolen btc
Soros
Jane Street
https://news.bitcoin.com/secretive-high-tech-wall-street-trading-firm-is-now-trading-bitcoin/
Goldman supposed to be coming in

that nigga flood on twitter called it too a few months ago

It would be a wet dream to see either Bitfinex or Bitmex CEOs trapped in an interview and having to answer these questions.

Looking at https://datamish.com/d/000000004/btcusd?refresh=20s&orgId=1&from=now-6M&to=now
Long positions haven't changed too much in the past 3 months actually.
Shorts haven't changed much in 3 months either. There was a big spike in shorts just before the 20% move up tho.

>>9466322
Whether you like him or not this quote is going to be true for crypto sooner than later. As more money comes in and smarter competition too short term speculation and 100x margin swings are going to be harder and harder to win on.

Institutions are coming in and they are much smarter than your average /biz/ meme trader so if you want to make it in this market you are going to have to learn to zoom out and not play the jewish games that they can create on shorter time frames.

>>9466322
>>professionalization of crypto trading
I can translate it to
>>hostile takeover
Look I don't mind proffesional trading entering crypto(although that would mean that I lose) if individuals want to do it, all power to them.
This market is so ful eatable though that suits entering it will ultimately lead to a takeover.
And that takeover will mean that the decentralization is not going to happen. Ever.
>>9466194
No. At least I don't think so. They want to control it and maybe, in the future incorporate it into their business model but on their terms.
This is what I would do to ultimately shake all of the small people(if the regulators won't intervene first)
Blow it up to the fucking moon (and I mean BTC=500k, and then crash it 90%. Do it 2, maybe 3 times.
Put their chosen coin (no idea which one) as #1 in the market aka flippening. The coin will have to be already controlled by them.
Then proceed with market moves that guarantee 2% ROI a year aka regular market, for years.
Any other strategies?

we are still in the second phase of a double descending inverse bart, if you can't see the incoming right ear pump you are actually retarded

Someone explain all this with regular people words

>>9466552
All that matters is the long vs short volume.

Do the opposite of the market consensus and win all day.

>>9466552
This is what the general consensus seems to be. If everyone thinks it's going to go up, and leverages are getting eaten for sport 24/7, won't it go down?

>>9466602
Yes.

>>9466602
The general consensus now looks like undecided.
So we are going to trade sideways for a while.
The big barts happen with spikes in long/short volume. So judge for yourself.

>>9466634
>>9466721

Fuck, I hate this shit. Frat bros ruin everything.

So how do we win? Buy on every dip and hold until they're done accumulating too?

>>9466760
No you just literally watch a graph that shows the amounts of longs vs shorts on bitfinex. If there are more longs than shorts, then you go short and visa versa.

>>9466760
I'm sure someone figured out how much BTC will go up or down based on long/short volume but I'm too much of a brainlet to do so myself.
It's possible to actually correlate the 2.
But what I do is ladder my buys and sells.
And buy the dips and sell the highs.
I don't make gazillion percents and I don't day trade per se.
I'm also a fucking plankton trying to make it. So one thing for me is completely obvious: watch longs/shorts like a hawk 24/7
It sucks. But "if you can't beat them, join them"

>>9466862
are you doing it on margin or tether/usd

>>9466925
I don't margin trade. Ever. You will call me an idiot, but I think that margin trading is cancer for crypto as a market so I boycott it.
But I do accumulate BTC and ETH, cause my tin hat theory tells me it's going to the moon (to later crash as fuck).
Also I'm buying shitcoins.
And that data is important for that too.
Like I said, I'm a poorfag, so I'm using everything I can to make it.

>>9466925
Oh sorry. Yes tether the gains for now, then enter at the dip.

>>9467083

Tether is probably going to get wrecked at some point also. Between that and finex there has to be money laundering going on, who knows if it's going to take a week or a year for anyone to get busted though. It can be useful for very short durations but I would be anxious as fuck having any money in tether.

>>9467056
naw i got wiped out cause of margin in 2008

>>9467201
Well it's a short term hold.
I mean when I know that BTC is going down. I tether, then I buy the dip. It's max 1 week wait, and even that's a stretch.
Look, I may be wrong, but I actually think that tether is safe, exactly because the institutions are working with exchanges.
No one is interested in killing it for now.
Not before the epic pnd we are about to experience on btc/USD.
When the shorts/longs flatlined for an extended period of time that's when it will happen according to me.
Now I'm a regular brainlet so don't trust me and DYOR.
But I had to stick to some kind of strategy and figure out how to trade after we started to get barted (It really started in March btw)
So this is what I came up with.

>>9466293

It is a double edged sword. I'm not even sure if that's their end game to be honest. George Soros ffs? firms like this make billions on a 10% short trade. they don't need BTC to go to the moon. the 4-10k range is PLENTY for them.

Just not sure why so many big wallets have been accumulating. Unless they are trying to confiscate them in the event of crypto uprsing?

What even caused last years bullrun? Technology improvements? forks? previous halfening? miners rallying? I still don't know. if i could crack that then predicting the next upleg would be simple as finding out waht bitflinex and bitmex were up to last time around and seeing what they did vis now.

>>9465241
algo testing

>>9467331
Yeah. I know it's cool to a lot of people and I'm not angry at the people obviously. I'm angry because margin trading is giving suits a very powerful and easy tool to control the market.
I never minded the whales manipulating the market for some reason.
I mean at least their intentions were simple.
Nothing simple or good is comming from the corp world.

>>9467382
I don't agree with the anon that you replied to, not completely.
I don't think it's a way to simply make money. It's a way to control the market as a whole.
That's much more serious.
>>9467401
That plays a part.

>>9467382
And this is the way to stabilize the market after they control it imho
>>>9467308

What you think about eth/btc marging trading?

>>9467441

Worse? I don't think from our point of view it's any worse anon. me and you are both here for the same reason. we are trying to "make it" with crypto if we can. whether thats 1M$ or 10M$ for you the goal is the same.

Keeping bTC in this range makes that impossible for us because we simple are not privy to their algos on shorting and longing.
If they control the market and we are in early enough to sell for our goals, it matters little. the quesiton is, will they pump it? or wil they kill it.

>>9467485
Also curious about this.

>>9467629
Oh but I completely agree.
I said that it's worse because it's much harder to predict when the market is controlled by less than 10 entities with unknown goals, than a market that is controlled by the same entities that just want to make money.
So in a sense I said what you saying but in another way.
For my thoughts on the possible strategies read
>>9466514

>>9467629

If you had the choice of being pretty wealthy or one of the wealthiest people in the world in one of the most valuable commodities, what would you choose? If you didn't want it to go up with you in it, what would be the point of spending so much of your time trading and manipulating the market?

I think I understand now. The biggest new money wants to FUD it down as much as possible so they can get back on MSNBC and pump it when they feel like they've accumulated enough.

>>9466810
what time frame should be used?

How does this play into the top 30 alt coins? A lot of these projects are developing promising partnerships with big companies, so will they be manipulated by institutional money directly or merely indirectly through bitcoin?

>>9467735
These are my thoughts so don't trust it and DYOR
>>9466106

Think about it as countries.
There is 1 country that is let's say totally anarcho-libertarian. Small, scattered governments and shit gets done by people getting together and doing it.
But that country is surrounded by countries with centralized big governments that are starting to see that their citizens really like the small libertarian (or whatever) country.
They can't invade, not openly. But they don't want their serfs to rebel and destroy their hegemony. What do they do?
That shit happened in our history multiple times....why not in weak and decentralized crypto?

>>9466587

>>9466810

there have been more longs than shorts for months lol.

You mean tracking the change in volume over time?

>>9467816
I trade alts and use the l/s strategy to do so.
Because they are so tied to bitcoin that all their partnerships etc do not matter in the short-mid term.
Maybe later. Hopefully that's exactly what's going to happen, but I wouldn't count on it.
And don't be happy that BTC gets dethroned- whatever coin is #1 will drag the market with it.
I am a big proponent of giving all the alts fiat pairs.
Why it hasn't happened yet?
Well, obviously, banks are not interested in this happening. It would make it much much harder to control this market in that case.
I'm fro. The US. I already have exactly 2 ways of getting into the market with fiat(2 easy ways, and ways to enter that are too complicated for normies with fees from hell). It will spread all over the world and we will be left with a fewer and fewer options of doing so, globally.
I mean look at China and what they did. They are still going to use and allow blockchain but only after they fully control it.

>>9467735

My strategy has mostly been holding the mid markets because these jews always win with manipulation. Might just continue to do that for long term instead of them Siphoning my btc. All alts are simply means to accumulate sats in my view.

I depend on them pumping us up eventually. We’ll see

>>9467995

i too am wondering where the alt-fiat pairs are. i think they are coming, with stellar's fairX on the way and new projects that showcase crypto cards and mobile point of sale options. however many of the top promising altcoins are partnering with big companies, so wouldn't that attract big investors and create more market control/profit than just controlling bitcoin

Bump

>>9467995
Decoupling shitcoins from btc would be bad for btc and shitcoins, shitcoins have liquidity just because people are trading them to make more btc, btc is useful because you can trade it again shitcoins to make more btc to sell to fiat...

>>9465241

As you can see from the Bart action, generic growth is there all the time, but heavy dumps clear the buy orders and make weak hands panic sell while heavy pumps accumulate cheap coins. Don't sell your BTC to whales, they already have more than enough.

>>9465540
Do you think if everyone used a conservative leverage (ie. 1x, liquidation @ 4150) they'd have no choice but tp pump BTC, instead of crashing the price to crazy lows?

is it possible to see how many longs/shorts are open on bitmex at any given time? I want to see if it's true that they're just liquidating the bigger positions

>>9469537
Not sure how much it would help if we knew the exact number. If the average leverage is ~8.5%, that requires a 10% move to liquidate. They're targeting the 15x+ orders with these $100-$200 barts.

>>9467382
my pet theory is that the suits got in a couple of years ago and have been pumping in money to entice the early adopter. they were able to create momentum last year and then dumped on all the dumb money in january-march and fully consolidated. now that they scared away all the neets and cryptoanarchists they can start pumping again enough to re-build momentum in the following year or two to entice the normans by formally announcing their entry and fully take over crypto once fiat money completely blows up.

>>9469788
>>9469139
dis

Stop trying to make sense of this unpredictable market. Nobody knows what tomorrow will bring. Hold long and forget til 2028.

>>9466587
Forex 2.0

>>9470268
Wouldn't that be nice?
Not going to happen, banks and other motherfucking suits are not interested in it.
>>9469788
Possible and logical
>>9469537
See here
>>9465711
>>9465620

>>9469537
One more thing. I don't think they just liquidating the bigger positions.
I don't like margin trading but someone(s) is trying to discourage people in general from using it.
They strike when volume is spiking. Not only for the big positions.
Unless I'm missing something of course.

>>9469437
Makes sense to me, yes.