/biz/ - Business & Finance

Tell the poor the rich's biggest secret to building wealth

Working for yourself

>>930706
>only a small minority are rich
>everyone else is poor

Somehow this is mistaken as capitalism.

Literally dont. Income inequality has no bearing on upward mobility. Just because more people are poor, doesnt mean it is any harder to get rich. It just means less people are doing it. We have a far more entitled populace today than ever before, who are content collecting food stamps and paying $400/month phone bills. It is easier today to become rich than any other time in American history

>>930706
Encourage poor people to get married, and stay married? Stable family units build up wealth a lot better than broken homes.

Make the rich pay for low income education and make it free, then make them use their money to fix the environment they keep trying to break.

Make the poor into my pratice targets so I can stop paying for them and atleast get something out of it.

Here's how to lessen the gap. Try fucking getting some drive and bust your ass and make something of yourself.

>>930827
>Literally dont. Income inequality has no bearing on upward mobility. Just because more people are poor, doesnt mean it is any harder to get rich. It just means less people are doing it. We have a far more entitled populace today than ever before, who are content collecting food stamps and paying $400/month phone bills. It is easier today to become rich than any other time in American history

There are goys deluded enough to believe this

>>930706

Unions.

If every industry could just collectively bargain for wages and compensation, then there would never be any argument that a particular profession is not being adequately paid.

Will this ever happen? Not likely.

fresh from my sub box
Max wage
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZosIUP2cGEo

>>930708
>>930827

Following on from these two, understand that for someone to be made richer, someone else must be made poorer. An exchange of money must be made to make someone richer.

The poor are people who make poor exchanges when earning and spending money.
The average are people who make mediocre exchanges when earning and spending money.
The well off are people who make good exchanges when either spending or earning money.
The rich are people who can convince others to make mediocre exchanges when spending money.
The richest are people who make it almost a necessity for anyone dealing with them to make poor exchanges and to deal with them often.

The only way to lessen the rich-poor gap is to educate the masses, but a job hierarchy will always exist. Someone will need to be the janitor or the office junior. Not everyone can be the CEO, but someone does have to be the CEO. The key to the poor becoming richer is for them to spend more wisely.

Take for example one of my old colleagues. She would complain she never had any money, despite living in a house with her partner (both working full time, no kids) and having no mortgage through inheritance. She had a mobile phone plan that she knew nothing about which she paid £45 a month for. She had a Sky subscription that she was locked into and was paying for more than she used. There were other aspects of her financial life that would creep out during conversation that made me realise that no one took care of their finances and no one in that partnership knew how to spend money effectively.

TL;DR: Teach people not to spend money poorly. The rich will have less stupidity to capitalise on and the poor will have more money available/invest it more wisely.

(As an aside, alcohol keeps many poor people poor. I budget for 2 nights out per month and even then, I feel it's expensive for what it is)

>>930706

Education.

>>931204
>maximum wage
This disincentivizes people to pursue wealthy goals. Imagine working a 40 hour week to be told by your boss you will only be paid for 20 hours, or 10 hours. Nobody wants a cap on their income and rich people don't stay rich without warrant. They provide a service to someone somewhere and that service is valued at the income they receive(d). Even the people who let their money acrue in banks provide a service to the banks to allow them to grow.

I agree with what he says about wage subsidies, that shouldn't be tolerated and the government should refuse to make exceptions. Companies being told to "lump it" and pay a proper unsubsidised wage would be forced to reorganise their company structure to ensure their overheads are paid from their own pocket, but setting a cap on allowed earnings because someone feels you shouldn't have that money is a dangerous precedent. They earned it through providing services someone else felt it was fair to pay for. They are literally entitled to whatever is left after taxes.

>>931237
i may be misinformed, but heard it is working like that in cuba and that they don't lack doctors and other trade that would yield a bigger pay around here. That people choose a trade because they like it rather than choosing it for the money. But like i said, i didn't search the subject, it is only things i heard.

>>931237
What? That makes very little sense.

If you want to be a doctor, you'll earn more than the guy who sweeps floors for a living. It's not as if maximum wage means everyone earns the same salary.

>>930706
>OP thinks the developed world has poor people in it
>Not simply comparing the wealthiest members of a nation to its least wealthy
Being the least wealthy person in a rich nation doesn't automatically make you poor. Do you have air conditioning, running water, and are not starving? Congratulations, you are wealthier than a good chunk of actually poor human beings.

>>931276

So how does a maximum wage handle something like Facebook?

Zuckerstein has a multi billion dollar product, but he only gets X amount when it goes public.

What about those people that make millions stock trading or have stocks that raise, such as Tesla, and someone make

You could say that it only applies to wages/salaries and not stocks, but that doesn't fix the problem either

Steve Jobs only had a salary of $1, but ~6 million shares of Apple.

Just thinking it through shows that it would an absolute nightmare for the legal and tax code

I also refuse the notion that the government decides the cap on your personal earnings.

Maximum wage is essentially a buzz phrase that gets an emotional response, but the reality is that it just isn't realistic.

>>931282
This is obviously just a small thought experiment on aligning incentive with efficient capital allocation, not a legal question on whether or not maximum wage would be approved in America tomorrow

Regardless, wow, big deal, Jewey McStealyfromhisFriends doesn't get paid billions of dollars for inventing something that has very little value, what a tragedy

>>931204

I fuckin love J. Ventura.

He's right.

Despite what econheads will argue till the are blue in the face, capitalism really is a zero sum game. There's only enough room in life and markets for some people to win and some to lose. Just depends who is willing to slave away harder. Is that really how we want to live? Especially when there is WAY more than enough to go around, and people could live lives with an adequate amount of leisure.

Fucking entrenched wealth.

>>931302
>capitalism really is a zero sum game
I don't think you know what zero sum game means my friend.

>>931302
I could see a zero sum game sure. But you have to include 100% of the resources of the earth. We barely use a fraction of a percent. The 0 sum is so many orders of magnitude greater, that we simply can assume infinite, until the population has a few more zeroes on the end.

>>931302
Where does the extra money go? It would stay in the business, yeah? Thats fine til you realize the richest business people keep all of their money in their businesses and pay themselves what they need to live.

Stop trying to penalize people for doing well in life, and just let the stupid and lazy be poor.

>>931299

Be more subtle with your bait next time

>>930827
>Income inequality has no bearing on upward mobility
Except of course the evidence that disagrees.

http://milescorak.com/2012/01/18/the-economics-of-the-great-gatsby-curve-a-picture-is-worth-a-thousand-words/

basic laws of nature

some are dumber than others
as simple as that
people will always be stupid, lazy, decadent there is no way to fix it

eugenics could be the cure

>>931341
>gets shown up
>"nice b-b-bait"

Sure thing slugger. You morons glorifying some sanctimonious douche who contributed nothing of worth to society over real engineers is why China is beating you.

>>931222
>not buying your handles of generic vodka to drink home alone

>>931359

Your argument is nothing more than "fuck the rich"

You say Facebook has no value, but the company is valued in the billions, has billions of users, and generates hundreds of millions each year

Don't get butthurt someone won't entertain your argument after you get intellectually sodomized for posting retarded shit

>>931374
>You say Facebook has no value, but the company is valued in the billions, has billions of users, and generates hundreds of millions each year

You know what other company was valued at billions, had a large customer base, and generated hundreds of millions every year?

Enron

Oh, but the informationally assymetric market will ALWAYS give you the perfect valuation, right?

Seriously, kill yourself you faggot, maybe learn to argue first

>>931381
nice b-b-bait

>>931358
See, the problem with this argument isn't the implied correlation. I think most people would agree that there's some connection between intelligence and wealth, but it's the fact that you bell-curve types seem to think that the correlation is 1:1. That's absurd and empirically wrong. Everyone isn't where they are in society because that's where they best belong. You pretend like wealth is completely liquid. That people who gain wealth lose it easily and people without wealth gain it easily. This simply is not true.

>>931381
>Facebook = Enron
Wut

>>931381

>h..h.. Here i go

>>931381
The fuck is this shit? Did you learn what "asymmetric information" was in your Micro 101 class and decide to apply it to some random firm you have a personal problem with? Gonna talk to us about the market for lemons next, mate? Are you honestly going to sit here and try to tell us that facebook is a fucking ponzi scheme that we're all too blind to see?

>>931384
I would add to this that I have met some with exceptionally high IQs who refuse to either play by the rules or wont put in the work required to acquire and maintain wealth. Also, some near illiterates show up to work every day, are not "smart" enough to be so full of themselves they think they can game the system, and just put in the work, rising far above their "smart" counterpart. Intelligence doesnt replace hard work in a capitalist system. Hard work is the equalizer

That's absurd and empirically wrong. Everyone isn't where they are in society because that's where they best belong.

And who or what decides where a person best belongs other than what they currently have

>>930706

Grow the economy.

As for the wage gap, there is no fucking problem with a wage gap. It literally doesn't affect the lower classes negatively, because the economy is not a zero sum game. In fact, under a purely capitalist system (which we no longer have. thanks liberals) the more wealthy the rich are, the more wealthy the poor are.

>>931388
No you conflating idiot, it's an example of how a market operating on the basis of incomplete information cannot accurately evaluate the real worth of companies or economic activity

Godammit, why is it always the idiots who like accusing the other guy of taking a micro/macro 101 class? Is it like some sort of signal you send to each other that you're part of the insufferable twat club?

>>931396

Def an econ 101 kid

>>931396
What is this halfass backtrack?

>>931399
You know why we only use Econ 101 terms around you people?

Because those are the only ones you can understand

>>931406

Congratulations

Your retarded

>>931396
Nah, it's when people apply buzzword terms where they don't really fit. It's pretty easy to pick out on any given post. If you use words like "consumer surplus" correctly and to support your point, nobody here gives a shit. If you use it in a way that clearly demonstrates you learned that basic price-floor graph in intro to micro and nothing more, you're going to get mocked for it.

Your use of asymmetric information is akin to the latter.

>>931406
Oh please do go on with the much larger, loftier "advanced" economic terms you've picked up along your many years of learned experience. Teach us the jargon you use which has only been mastered by the Nobel Laureates of old.

>>931411
Oh, by all means then, prove to me how my usage of assymetric information was wrong, I'm all ears

Maybe I'm so wrong I'll have to ask the journal where I submitted an article to withdraw my submission on account of some random anon proving how the foundation of my knowledge on a subject I've been studying for years now is all wrong

>>931413
You'd like some more buzzwords to add to your vocabulary, wouldn't you?

>>931411
>consumer surplus

This is an Econ 101 term right here. Did you learn it last night? Can you use it in a sentence, or is it just another buzz term you picked up to sound smarter?

>>931427

Be more subtle

>>931427
>the journal where I submitted an article
Holy fuck. I'm dying. 10/10, anon.

>>930706
Genocide.

>>931381
Look at this nigga guys. Look at him.

>>930706
reduce welfare

>>931222
I can disprove the zero sum fallacy in few words:
I buy a rock for $5 and out of it I make a beautiful sculpture and sell it for $100. Assuming the sculpture retains its value, who lost $95? The man who sold the rock cashed in on his equity, and the man who bought the sculpture now has $100 equity in the sculpture.

Wealth is created every day. The world is a million times more useful than it was when we were nomads, and that is what wealth is.

>>931388
This guy is right. They did use information asymmetry to fuck over the energy market. The energy producers were almost brought into bankruptcy (Check PG+E stocks at the time) and the investors didn't fare well either.

>>930706
1: reform the education system to be more oriented towards careers and marketable skills
2: free trade
3: if you want to help the poor in the US exclusively then restrict immigration, if you want to help the poor globally then open the borders
4: there needs to be some attempt to figure out how to apply scientific method to fields like economics, socioeconomics and psychology where you cannot perform experiments and the accuracy of observations and statistics are inaccurate and vulnerable to bias, otherwise our government will remain incompetent and continue to waste a significant proportion of GDP

>>931654
True dat

>>931168
...and then subsidize unicorns and make Facebook Likes legal tender and replace the US Constitution with a post-it note with "Live Laugh Love" written on it and laa laa flibble wibble muh social justice

>>930706
there is no way for doig that. and i dont know why people see it as a problem. it's not like the rich have their moneys on bank accounts, they have 99% invested it, which helps society and economical situation.

>>931302
>WAY more than enough to go around

To say that with any certainty you'd have to define what a baseline entitlement would be. Is everybody entitled to running water? Heating? Air con? Television? A car?

If you set your sights low and live frugally you can get by with very little income. Problem is that no fucker is willing to settle for the minimum.

>>931198
That's been tried. When unions collectively try to push up salaries it results in a sort of minimum-wage, which leads to unemployemt amongst those without training (experience).

>>931409
No, actually you're are retarded.

>>931198
>>If every industry could just collectively bargain for wages and compensation, then there would never be any argument that a particular profession is not being adequately paid
>teachers, police, fire are professions with strongest unions
>always talk about how they're not paid enough
>lawyers and doctors don't have unions
>get paid well
you sure m8?

>>930706

Read:
Thomas Piketty - Capital in 21st century
That book is all about this stuff

basically:
-education
-taxes on inheritance

starve the poors.
it's not gommunist.

Eugenics

Promoting abortion.

The wealth gap is a function of assortive mating.

Pretty much keep people who don't want to have kids from accidentally having kids and that's it.

>>931682
Enron was just an example he gave, m8. He's been talking about Facebook this whole time.

>>931738
>they have 99% invested it, which helps society and economical situation.
Contrary to popular belief, higher stock valuation doesn't somehow magically create jobs.

>>930706
Very poorly worded question, OP. You really cannot. Unchecked capitalism leads to greater and greater wealth disparity as the rich use their influence to ensure they and their kin have an advantage over others. It's too easy to claim that any checks on capitalism are therefore "communist" in nature as they'd necessarily deal with redistributing wealth in one way or another.

>>931719
>>931654

no man, you put $95 worth of sweat into that rock, you stupid motherfucker.

you didn't make wealth. you converted your time into wealth.

>>931986
And with many people over time converting their time into wealth, wealth is created. It's a matter of semantics at this point.

/biz/ I need your help. How do I make it? Right now I have a TERRIBLE job (7.45/h, no benefits, no sick days, the company hates their employees), I'm getting the run around from every place I apply to, I'm 21 still living at home, no money for school. At my shitty job, I DO have access to tax free goods (After a lot of trouble in the past they let it slide but we still can't buy alcohol or tobacco) and with coupons I can get things almost free, if the department who tags the items do their damn job. I KNOW there's a way to pull a hustle game there while I continue to look for another job, but I just can't put my finger on how. Any help?

>-$12.01
Yep

It's a little weird how much people on this board hate poor people

>>930706

Start a large public fund and accept donations to send the poor to the Sun in a rocket.

>>932203
No it isn't. This board is basically NEETs roleplaying what they imagine rich people to be like.

>>930706

the gap isnt the problem. a rising tide lifts all boats.

>>930706
>what is a growing middle class

>>931986
Time doesn't do shit. I could have spent 10 years making a blob or 5 minutes making a masterpiece.
That's not even the point either. You don't need to take wealth from someone else to make wealth.

>>932224
>a rising tide lifts all boats.
Kristol pls. We haven't seen growth in middle-class income since the 70s.

>>931986
Time has no inherent value. If I spend a weekend in my room fapping to Chinese cartoons, what value has been created?

To bring it back to the sculpture example, we have a $100 item. What if he takes one last tap with a chisel and the whole thing crumbles into pieces? Adding more time doesn't always add value.

>>932550
Yeah, I agree. If you were going to say you were monitizing something, it would be your skill, not your time, since a more skilled artist may be able to make the statue faster and definitely could make it prettier (more valuable.) Also, the amount of time spent does not follow the sculpture as it istraded. The skill of the artist does. So once you have acquired skills, you can actually monetize "nothing"

>>931823

I have not seen anything that shows union behavior has any effect on unemployment whatsoever

>>931920
police, and fire are paid well.

teachers should get a little more

lawyers and doctors arbitrarily restrict the amount that exist due to the difficulty of getting the degree.

>>930706
adulate the shit out of rich philanthropists.

>>930708
But it takes capital to start a business goyim.

>>930706
Kill subsidies.

>>930706
If you don't want revolution you have to do it through reform. Basically state intervention to make sure the poor don't get screwed.

Why is a gap important?
Isn't the improvement of everyone's lives more important?

Therefore freemarkets.

>>933983
>he believes in the neoclassical meme

HEY GUYS, WE GOT ANOTHER ONE TO BELIEVE OUR SHIT

>>934010
I believe in both learning from history and moving forward from the shithole governments have put us in. Only when we are free anon, can we hope to progress society. Or else we regress as we are now on borrowed time.

Vote #1 Stefan Molyneux

>>934014
"Free market" doesn't necessarily mean "unregulated market", though. If appropriate regulation is implemented well, it can actually promote competition, which is "free-er" in a sense.

>>931920
Lawyers and doctors have guilds, which in some ways act like unions.

>>934040
I tend to look at it as the artificial barriers to entry into the market.

If anyone is free to pursue alternatives and enter the market without artifical restrictions then that is a free market.

I think it's safe to say that both the laws aimed to promote a "healthy market free of monopoly" have largely failed along with the thousands of other regulations which have squashed opportunity.

Free markets imo allow high social mobility and high degree of opportunity for people who push for it while taking away vast amount of benefits that states give corporations; from grants, subsidies, monopolies, legal protections and all manner of regulatory hoops that adversely effect small business' and new start ups.

>>930706
Free markets.

The inequalities are caused by rules that give selected individuals special rights to gain an unfair advantage.

>>931166
Yeah. Shitheads who leave their kids to fend for themselves at 18 to "teach them responsibility" are retarded.

Then they end up working some office job making 50-70k a year wanting to kill themselves daily.

>tfw I'm 24 and made 160K this year after opening a design firm with my dad and brother and most of the people I went to college with are cucking away.

>>934253
>>934714
I would say that MOST regulation does, in fact, do what you're saying, but that it's foolish to paint with broad strokes and therefore say all regulation is bad.

>>934718
You realize that's unfathomably rare for most people who come from good families, right?

Lol at anyone who says muh free market.