/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>86885

sauce on girl in pantyhose pls.

>>86921
The link is in the OP. It's from her promo video for the Kickstarter.

>>86885
In the case of the kickstarter, I think this is likely caveat emptor. It's doubtful children are going on there and bugging parents to fund it or something, if adults are being influenced purely because of quirkiness that's their problem. And advertising regulations can be quite strict, the above looks legit. /g/'s probably pissed they didn't do it first and it's a girl.

>>87015
>It's doubtful children are going on there and bugging parents to fund it
I'm sure she's targeting parents. Her video kind of reminds me of how they sometimes portray hyper-energetic elementary school teachers in movies.
>And advertising regulations can be quite strict, the above looks legit
I'd agree with you there but do you know if ads soliciting funding for a product are regulated the same way as ads for existing products? My googling skills are failing me.

As long as they're not lying, I don't think it's unethical. It's up to the consumer to not be tricked by stupid gimmicks.

>>87068
>It's up to the consumer to not be tricked by stupid gimmicks.
Suppose there gimmicks that are scientifically confirmed to work even if the consumer is fully aware of them and trying to not get tricked. Is it then wrong to use them? This is kind of the crucial question to me.

>>87104
Well, I mean, we're probably fucked in a lot of situations if mind control is invented/discovered

>>87108
>Well, I mean, we're probably fucked in a lot of situations if mind control is invented/discovered
Calling it 'mind control' makes it sound more sci-fi than it is. With stuff like http://youarenotsosmart.com/2011/07/07/misattribution-of-arousal/ I'd say it's just a matter of using the existing research right and I'm sure cutting-edge advertising groups do (google 'neuromarketing'). Pic related; placebo is known to 'work' even if people are told it's placebo.

>>87062
Look up what the FTC has been involved in. Kickstarter's US based isn't it? I doubt any agency outside the US is going to care because it's outside their jurisdiction and it's really people's choice to go to an American website. There might be something on the Finnish side, but I doubt it either way. Most heavily regulated stuff tends to protect people down on their luck from known addictive shit like alcohol or gambling. Children are also protected because of being vulnerable too, and there's been a furore in the UK over payday loan ads targeting children.

There's one other thing come to mind over scamming and kickstarter, and it's this http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2013/11/12/kickstarter-project-canceled-amid-fraud-accusations/
And I guess there's maybe some similarities to this http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/27/magazine/the-harvard-doctor-who-accidentally-unleashed-a-zombie-invasion.html?_r=0

People go on kickstarter and maybe don't look any further because hey it's the internet someone's bound to say something in the comments. In this case though, it's an issue with KS

>>87246
>payday loan ads targeting children
I literally spit my tea. What?

>>87108
Behavioral economic
Also, why is there so many commercial that repeat the same message over and over?
Why are there so many attractive people on tv?
FREE SHIPPING, FREE GIFT (with purchase)

>>87104
>scientifically confirmed
>human behavior
>wat

>>87787
That's why I wrote "suppose": because results in psychology are often contested.

It's up to the consumer to lose faith in the market.

For me, once I've been sold one shit product I'll never trust another company ever again. All I want is to not be sold shit. That is my standard. And it's apparently too much to ask.

>>87696
"But mummy, the nice puppet said you could get a loan to buy me sweets, toys, whatever else kids want, and pay the bills!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjY0mbh8fxU

She just talks about herself and does not show how it actually works.
She smiles way to much.
Tries to use what her country has produced for a reason to for backing her.
Has the edgyness of a brainless liberal.
Does not say how much profit it will gain.

2/10 would not back

OP I may sue you on the grounds of wasting my time because remember time is money.

.

>>90142
Sometimes it seems like this is what people want.
Ever been associated with a marketer or marketing major? It's hell, they are the worst, most annoying people, and everyone loves them.

In a proper society people would respond only to facts in adverts. And fucking Japan of all places is offended by facts in ads. Blame the consumers. (Partially.) Just stop buying it and they'll stop thinking their stupid shit works. (Or they'll blame it on internet pirates and ask the government for help.)

>>90142
>She smiles way to much.
>not investing in a qt3.14 girl who gives you cute smiles all the time

>>90271
It's bait for libuhruls who want to be omg soooo nurdy xDDD and view Finland as the magical perfect land of happiness and not a cold asshole of Europe where people drink themselves stupid every day.
And I'm Finnish, even.

>>90142
>edginess
Explain how she's 'edgy'. She's quite the opposite; she's saccharine.

>>90271
yes when I was younger at school. biz teachers said should go into marketing or sales.

>>90491
marketing > sales

>>90372
Ssshhhh no it's not.

>>86885
No. And the line between 'ethical' and 'unethical' is irrelevant, capitalists will always cross it for profit.

>>90371
Never let your penis lead you to impulsive buying son.

Take a pic it cost less and lasts longer.

>>90491
It's easy for awful, fake people, and it's where a lot of the bucks are. Sort of. I imagine it's over saturated by now. Quite a few older businessmen will sage another typical marketing youngster on sight.

I decided to go the opposite route. Apparently autism doesn't get you in either. Who could have known?

>>90444
>saccharine
artificial sweetener

350 k raised!! Give me a pantyhose an a smile

and no it's not unethical, she didn't do anything dishonest, she just understood what every good marketer does, that sales is about personality, getting people to like you.

>>90536
There There.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7RgN9ijwE4

>>90551
i'm not sure about the purpose of your post but have this JIK: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/saccharine..

>>90567
>http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/saccharine..
that's what I got.

>>90570
Look at how proud that mother fucker is.
Living the dream.

>>90560
People aren't paying taxes on that kickstarter money.

She will get what she deserves when irs gives her a visit

>>90661
What if she's putting it into a corporate entity and makes a 1 year loss due to expansion?

>>90592
not him but remove the period, I don't know why they didn't make it so punctuation is neglected but oh well.

>>90675
you neets are just jealous because she's stylin on you, maybe instead of pouring out anger, you could learn from her

it's not just about the product, there are many great products that go nowhere, it's about marketing, networking and getting to know people. That's what I learned when my first business failed. I had a great model, great idea, but I just didn't know how to network and get out there properly.

Here's a tip, notice that smile in her pics, she's always smiling making it seem like she enjoys what she's doing and enjoys being there. And notice how that smile reaches her eyes, that's something you can practice, just practice giggling in front of the mirror, make sure your eyes adjust to match. If you want to /biz/ that's what it takes, gotta give people what they want and build relationships, make them happy, and make them feel like you're genuinely interested and genuinely care.

>>90736
>And notice how that smile reaches her eyes
She's squinting m8

>>90713
>ingratiatingly or affectedly agreeable or friendly

I would say so friendly that it seems to be put on.

>>90754
2nd

>>>86885
>where's the line between ethical and unethical marketing?

Assuming legalities aside as that would be absolute unethical, nothing is unethical as the person you're marketing to chooses to believe what you're selling. It is on the sole individual responsibility of the person to believe or not believe what is being marketed to. No such thing as ethics except that dictated by the law, otherwise, it's all fair game.

>>90767
what

>>90802
>it's only unethical if it's illegal
fuck off retard.

>>90754
>>90799

there we go, next time you want to network and meet people, just squint when you smile and do that alot - winning formula

>>90736
Like Henry Ford smiled all the time as was a people person.

>>86885
>Linda Liukas
That literally translates to "Linda the Slick"

I see nothing wrong with this. It's a great way of getting lonely neckbeards to throw money at her without actually lying about the product.

>>90824

Are you telling me you're too stupid to understand that marketing is exaggerated manipulation and that one should understand it analytically before involving themselves in it?

>>90822
nigga you aint Henry Ford, when you have a factory with an original system and can hire all the sales people you want . . . then you can be a dick . . . till then . . . smile fuckers

>>90818

>>90823
looks put on and cant see her eyes.
Sorry sir but I still don't trust her.

>>90846
If you have a good product that it can sell it self then why the need to smile?

>squinting and massaging your gums with your lips is smiling

I don't think so Tim

>>90875
see >>90736

good ideas and good products are like assholes, everyone's got one, there are tons of good products that come and go.

It doesn't matter how good your product is if no one knows about it. And you're a fool if you leave your marketing to unreliable stuff like word of mouth (that's like hoping your logo will become a meme). You gotta network, it's the only way and it's what every sucessfull enterpreneur will tell you.

fuck - is there anyone on /biz/ who's actually tried their hand at starting a business? This stuff is basic. Having a good product by itself is not enough. Personality and relationships matter, they always have and they always will.

The best lawyers don't get the clients, its the ones who know how to network and meet people.

Just look at Steve Jobs v. Steve Wozniak, Woz invented a great product, but it was Steve Job's /biz/ sense that made it work market wise.

>>90862
>>90893

for the thousands of people who trusted her with their money it's worth something

for the neets on 4chan who sit around critiquing, who cares about them

>>90847
Convincing doesn't always involve gross exaggerations, a lot of times it's just connecting people with a certain product. Why do you think datamining is so desirable? (Datamining without consent is also unethical)

And again
>thinking ethics is limited to legality
fuck off retard.

>>90980
>Convincing doesn't always involve gross exaggerations

Doesn't have to but if you're stupid enough to believe a product that has been grossly exaggerated because you're too stupid to understand analytically before, again, involving yourself in it, then it has become a lesson of your own stupidity teaching you to better think of your decisions before executing them.

Also, "grossly" exaggeration can become illegal at some point in which I think you're trying to imply here. You can only exaggerate so much on your product.

>>thinking ethics is limited to legality
fuck off retard.

Nope, I'm teaching the stupid/naive/ignorant a better thought process/lesson thus I'm helping others indirectly. Ethics is subjective in all regards that changes every decade of the human race, am I supposed to be bound by every person individual view of ethics? How the fuck would I get anything done if I have to account for that? Or am I supposed to take YOUR personal view of ethics to market my product? What makes your ethics better than millions of other ethics out there?

You're just a child. Your arguments are pathetic.

There's probably a man behind her campaign, Femen-style. It's too perfectly crafted and geared towards lonely tech nerds with money.

I don't know the detailed rules of Kickstarter, but if she actually gets to keep all the money that comes in after the goal is reached, no questions asked, then this could be seen as a sort of "legal" scam where the person who planned it knew it had potential to receive dozens of times the goal money and used the programming book as a facade.

>>90736
>it's about marketing
If I were to read just one book on marketing, which цould it be?

>>90846
Lindacoin?

>>91423
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umDr0mPuyQc

>>90910
>fuck - is there anyone on /biz/ who's actually tried their hand at starting a business?
Yes.
>Having a good product by itself is not enough. Personality and relationships matter, they always have and they always will.
That's generally true, but I found that if you have good copy and marketing you don't need to show yourself. You can be an anonymous cipher as long as there's something else to convince your clients of your positive reputation. At least that's my experience with srs bsns OTI.

>>91376
I don't know actually anon, to tell you the truth I haven't found a good one

For the very basis stuff, there's how to win friends and influence people, but I would be careful with that because it can be a bit cynical

for my marketing I usually search through google once in a while for blogs and articles by people who successfully marketed or networked, there are also videos on youtube where people have posted themselves making successful cold calls, so stuff like that would be helpful, it'd be nice to do lots of inbound marketing to get people to come to you, but me, and most other start ups don't have the money for that, so we have to do stuff like this

>>91498
>it'd be nice to do lots of inbound marketing to get people to come to you, but me, and most other start ups don't have the money for that, so we have to do stuff like this
You selling SaaS?

>>91548

no, but I'm in the service industry - not tech related though.

I've talked to alot of people who made it in my industry and I've read stories from even more, and just about all of them built their business through referrals and networking -

>>91570
>about all of them built their business through referrals and networking
That's good to know, anon. Did you have a minimal viable product by the time you started making calls or did you look for clients first?

>>91587

yes, I had a viable product but my service is a soft service (think something along the lines of accounting, website design etc.) so I didn't really need alot of resources to start, just a certification

>>91613
Gotcha.

I think it's pretty obvious her quirkiness is fabricated as shit. Quirky girls don't just throw their heads around like their having seizures and laugh at nothing. There's a fine line between childish and quirky and she has it up her ass.

0/10 poor display

>>86885
Yes
n/a

>>91920
>0/10 poor display

I don't know about poor - it was work 350 k

Didn't read the thread.

As long as the consumer gets what they want nothing else matters. Businesses are about making money, not ethics. Ethics do not exist in business.

>>92171
>Businesses are about making money, not ethics. Ethics do not exist in business.

Just because you (and everybody really) ignore something doesn't make it disappear.

>>91498
>For the very basis stuff, there's how to win friends and influence people, but I would be careful with that because it can be a bit cynical


I'd say it's pragmatic rather than cynical

>$353,632
>pledged of $10,000 goal
Do they think she will make a better book because she has more money?
Do they think she won't print more if it sells?

I can never rationalize things like this on Kickstarter. It makes no sense to me.

>>90847
>Are you telling me you're too stupid to understand that marketing is exaggerated manipulation and that one should understand it analytically before involving themselves in it?

I think that people should be mindful of the "information" they are fed, I also think that systematically manipulating the opinion of consumers is questionable

>>91376
>ц
What the hell man.

Anyway, there are tons you can pick up, but my favourite is Market Led Strategic Change by Nigel Piercy. Gives good perspective on things, and what marketing's like today.

>>91498
>how to win friends and influence people
What hole's this faggot climbed out of? Seriously, anyone from anywhere worthwhile knows this is shit unless you desperately want to be an arsewipe. If you want to read something like this desperately, Games People Play by Berne is the way to go. Fairly common recommended reading book for decent Business Schools, you'll see it around every so often too.

>>86885

A fool is easily parted from his money. This is always going to be true. There's nothing "wrong" with what she's doing, its just cringe worthy and unprofessional. If people want to buy it because of her video, then fine. I won't be taking part though. To be honest, its in my best interest people keep consuming, so go ahead.

>>92171
>Businesses are about making money, not ethics.
>corporations serve themselves, not the public
I'm for stupid people making mistakes but marketing to make people buy bad products (harmful to them/completely necessary/buggyOrBroken) is not good in any way.

>>92601
>marketing to make people buy bad products ... is not good in any way
Certainly not to the business, which in turn means it's bad marketing. Part of marketing is, surprise surprise, acting ethically.

>>92642
>No company selling shitty products still exists

>>92731
it usually comes back to bite them, remember how the US auto industry plumetted when face with Japanese competition - no amount of high concept marketing could save them from their bad products

Most recent Oreo cookie commercial. Happy cheering music, very peppy woman with a sexy happy voice singing. Cookies rolling across the screen.

There are things in those cookies that can eventually kill you. Dont talk about that. Connect with emotions.

My boy just got diabetes from eating too many oreos. Theyre doing something right if they have people dying to eat them.

>>92746
That isn't how you get diabetes, you sound like my grandma. I ate lots of sugary shit in my life and I'm fine, including Oreos.

>>92731
>>92744
There's also the question of price. Which in its own way is also part of marketing: people can perceive higher priced items as higher quality. Look at the beauty industry.

>a thread on /g/ right now where a lot of posters think this one woman scammed people

I think we're all missing the most important part of this thread

which is nobody cares what /g/ thinks