/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>9064944
I don't get it. Why do they want the title of another coin? Why don't they just follow their own road and stop pretending to be something else? This is the route bitcoin chose so what does it matter to them?

I'm predicting 17K BCH by year end. Once BCH overtakes BTC we're gonna see a serious FOMO situation. And BCH will handle the transaction volume so easily.. its gonna be epic

>>9065008
To keep Bitcoin below $9000 so they can accumulate because once it hits over $9000 we going UPPPPP

>>9065027
i predicted $600 trillion billion bro
corecucks on suicide watch just you wait bro!!

>>9065027
Except no one gives a fuck about muh satoshi's vision. BCash more likely to go to 0 than to 17k.

>>9065027
If bcash hits 17k EOY then Bitcoin will be 100k

>>9065066
>>9065060

holy kek corecucks are the new buttcoiners

>>9065011
Where was this meme when Bcash was $600?

>>9065011
It makes sense for the fat kid to be Bitcoin because thats the big daddy king of crypto. The little skinny kid is bcash thats poking the bear and gets what he deserves (in this case bcash being $0 EOY).

It is going to be enjoyable when Roger and Jihan ditch BCash for another Bitcoin fork

>>9065109
nah Big Boi is Bitcoin Cash with dem big ass blox

>>9065109
we're bigblocks faggot

>>9064944
In the short term, the market is a voting machine.
But in the long term, the market is a weighing machine.
You can only suppress the truth for so long.

>>9064944
>5x

SERIOUSLY THOUGH WHY BY AN ALT COIN FOR A 5X RETURN WHEN YOU COULD BUY A FUCKING 2 CENT COIN FOR A 200X RETURN

>>9065390
shhh let cashies think they are winning

>>9065414
Just fucking buy ever god damn alt coin on the 2nd and third page

Put a fuck ton of sell orders at higher prices walk away

get a shit load of btc

win the game

>>9064944
How is the lightning ICO coming along? 152 billions is a bit excessive for a technology that is still in proof on concept, don't you think?

>>9065008
"Bitcoin" isn't an entity that can make choices. Blockstream made a choice to cripple BTC with 1MB blocks, and a bunch of other people got together and made a choice to save Bitcoin by creating BCH.

>>9065459
What fucking Lightning ICO?

>>9065486
The one you bought into when you bought BTC. Better hope it works out.

>>9065510

>>9065027
My body is ready.

>>9065075
>Bitcoin will be 100k
With $250 transaction fees and 2 week lead times.

>>9065574
somebody with deep pockets need to spam the mempool then.

>>9065574
last years fud is old

>>9065574
By that logic Nano will be king because 0 fees and 0 wait time

>>9065470
You realize that Bitcoin is more than the development team right? We have a clear consensus on who's winning because that's how consensus based systems work - BTC has all the hash power, the users and the programmers. BCash is an altcoin, grow up.

>>9065644
>We have a clear consensus on who's winning

Holy shit you corecucks are really losing it.

>>9065638
DAGs will never be anything more than a trap for retards.

>>9065672
what exactly was wrong with what he said? are you basing it off feelings, or facts

>>9065470
satoshi himself put that 1mb block, and it takes a hard fork to change it.
also why are you faggots so afraid of blockstream and pretend bitmain is somehow your benevolent buddy...
fucking retarded.

>>9065748
1mb was always suppose to be temporary and hardforks aren't anything to worry about. Core use to HF all the fucking time until Blockstream halted ALL development.

Did Adam Back's correct the record campaign end? WE NEED SOME EDUCATORS IN THIS SPACE TO PREVENT THIS SCAM BCASH FROM WINNING

>>9065574
Segwit adoption, batching, and LN will keep fees lower, but yes, the plan is for on chain fees to increase and for the blockchain to become a settlement layer. That was always the plan, you were misled by that histrionic faggot Roger Ver and others who had the wrong idea about what Bitcoin will become. It will still be a currency, but the blockchain cannot scale without losing its decentralized properties. LN is a decent way to get smaller value transactions, with slightly increased trust, while not compromising the base layer.

>>9065917
the fact is he did it for a reason.
do you even know the reason?
>Blockstream halted ALL development.
YOU yourself could write a bip to increase the block size.
why the fuck do you faggots think fucking blockstream can stop ANYTHING other than their influence???
Its Bitmain and his ass buddies who will stand in the way of ANY hard fork.

>>9066000

>hal is satoshi
>When they disagreed almost entirely on what bitcoin should be

coretards might as well go back to lebbit

>>9066019
Yet your coin only exists because Ver created an outrage subreddit after he got muted by mods on /r/bitcoin. The irony.

You were sold a vision of Bitcoin that was invented by companies like Satoshi Dice and Bitpay. You fell for a marketing campaign.

https://medium.com/@rusty_lightning/the-three-economic-eras-of-bitcoin-d43bf0cf058a

>>9065470
Nick szabo supported 1mb blocks and second later solutions. Growing pains now but better in the long haul. Also fuck both bitcoins go 50/50 Monero Eth and fuck off.

>>9066000
There's nothing wrong with second layers, but they are to be at user discretion. LN forces everyone onto a second layer in which they will never interact with the blockchain and only those well connected with massive capital (banks) will.

>>9066352
(you)

>>9066352
layer 2 is for spending
layer 1 is for settlement

don't know how people are not getting this

>>9066352
Monkey who doesn't know how LN works.

It doesn't "force" you onto a second layer, but highly incentivizes it by having much lower transactions costs and instant transaction times.

You are still completely free to blow you money doing P2PKH or P2SKH transactions for every little payment you make.

>>9066444
>just like my Visa card!

Nah, keep your shitty bank layer. I'll stick with peer to peer electronic cash.

>>9066352
Second layers are by definition opt in. You are literally retarded.

>>9066457
>this whole post
>it doesn't """force""" you, but you'll be homeless otherwise

>>9066468
More idiots who think everyone is a millionaire and can wait weeks for settlement.

>>9066477
sorry brochacho but I don't give a fuck if every single coffee purchase in the world is recorded on a global public ledger.

>>9066477
And I thought Roger Ver was a based ancap... tsk tsk.

>>9066457
Yeah it doesn't force you but who wants to go through $50 fees again? Especially when the devs consider it a success.

First time bcash has ever gone up, of course cashies going to celebrate. Too bad they are falling for an obvious PnD.

>>9066491
Not an argument.

>>9066501
Ancaps strive for efficiency, so you're wrong.

>>9066534
Have you ever written a line of code in your life? Srs question.

>>9066534
Adam Back and Nick Szabo were ancaps before Roger Ver was even born you larper.

>>9066563
>>9066577
Not an argument, corecucks.

>>9066534
Muh banks also isn't an argument. If you want efficiency stay away from anything decentralized.

>>9066592
*pats head*

>>9066477
You aren't forced to take a bus or train anywhere either, you can walk it.

>>9066592
Just curious if you have any possible clue what you're talking about. Would you ask Roger Ver to build a building? Why would you ask him how to scale a blockchain? BCashers are literally autistic.

>>9066627
>he thinks centralized money systems like the Fed are efficient

>>9066563
https://github.com/adam3us?tab=overview&from=2018-04-01&to=2018-04-23
kek and hes the ceo of blockstream. what a contributor

>>9066670
Name a CEO that writes code. You are seriously a fucking NEET.

>>9066563
>Have you ever written a line of code in your life? Srs question.
you realize most people that have crypto never wrote a line of a code in their life? are you trying to repulse people from buying? serious question
Have you ever ran a corporation and written an s1 to sell shares? serious question

your way of thinking is that you are high and mighty is a bit retarded desu

>>9066690
no youre right, he gets orders from big daddy axa and tells his minions to do the rest. hes a cypherpunk! 80 million in funding?

>>9066690
Lord Gaben

>>9066661
No, but MasterCard and Visa are better at shifting around numbers than the blockchain.

>>9066710
All I'm saying is if you don't know what you're talking about (scaling software) then stay in your fucking lane.

>>9066457
To make a lightning payment, you need to operate your own node with someone.
If you think everyone will operate your own node, you are retarded.

>>9066670
Not realizing that person you're citing as a non-contributor was one of the major pioneers of technology that made PoW based cryptocurrencies possible.

>>9065027
Are you mentally challenged

>>9066763
To make a BCash payment, you need to run a BCash node.
If you think everyone will operate your own node, you are retarded.
Just like everyone who uses email runs their own email client and doesn't just log into gmail or hotmail?

>>9066731
>send bch transaction
>shows up almost instantly and is settled in 10mins
>use Visa
>is settled about every week

Glad you're staying on Cores chain. You're unworthy.

>>9066768

>>9066763
I'm sure the bank will happily run one for you!

>>9066806

>can't convince someone my coin isn't worth $0
>they unworthy

>>9066740
It doesn't take a fucking genius to figure out that limiting on chain throughput to 14kbps is an idiotic move, and if you can't figure out why they're doing that with the AXA investment behind them and the fact that it's in their fucking business model to charge tolls on toll booths for Bitcoin transactions, you should unironically fucking neck yourself rather than acting high and mighty about plebs not being able to have an opinion, and I say that as someone that has been coding for over twenty years and was a sysadmin for ten more before that.
Fucking elitists that don't know their assholes from their elbows really piss me off.

>>9066824
Hehe, I actually just don't think you deserve to be a part of crypto.

>>9066000

this is dumb as fuck though because centralization has nothing to do with block size. centralization is a function of economic reward. the more the network is worth the more centralized it becomes due to the resultant increase in hash power. Pools become a necessary evil in order to reduce variance on block rewards. solo miners will have the same ev/hash but since there are so many hash/sec it may take them 100s of years to achieve a 50% expectation of mining a block. Especially with ASIC technology which promotes large scale mining operations that grow as the network grows. Centralization has nothing to do with block size; larger blocks just mean miners have to divert some of their money from hashing machines into bandwith and memory.

BCH and BTC are equally centralized; they are both dominated by the exact same mining groups who switch between the two coins with the exact same machines maintaining price equilibrium (hash is spread between the 2 coins such that $ earned per hash is the same between the 2 coins).

this is also why it is kind of dumb to say hash power shows which coin is favored. again hash power is purely a function of the price of the coin. If BTC and BCH were both 5k then they would both be pulling in the exact same hash power. It is the market which dictates where the Hash power goes.

>>9066805
No, bcash can relay to a node, how do you make a payment in lightning? You have to open a channel. How do you open a channel? You need a full node to open it.

1MB blocks are easier for the jews to control because they will use (((fractional reserve banking))) monies to buy space on the blockchain. Large blocks are for people sick of being fucked with and want to control their own money.

>>9066839
Too bad, I work at a major exchange.

this whole thread is the reason why i have doubts about crypto market, you guys are all fucking losers that think majority of society cares about certain technology. They just want a currency they can use. You should all kys.

Sage

>>9066763
>you need to operate your own node with someone

Wrong. You could make use of LN by trusting someone with a node. Now that idea may understandably disturb you. I have an even more disturbing thought: What if running a node was so cost prohibitive that only datacenters or hobbyists could afford them? Then to even make a normal on-chain transaction would require trusting someone, or adding trust into the equation. That's an even worse scenario... Wow, and here we are.

>>9066880
not to mention KYC requirements to run a node

>>9066869
>works at an exchange
>in favor of hubs that require being well connected and massive capital

Yeah, probably.

>>9066878
>finally solve the Byzantine generals problem after 2000 years of being bank slaves
>u guize dum, why haven't you agreed on the best implemention in 9 years

>>9066880
>>9066901
Jihan's dream is that only miners can run nodes, that way the Chinese gov can decided what happens.

>>9066806
It's the banks that take a week to settle. Visa does its job at PoS. Visa also doesn't require to energy of a small country doing the digital equivalent of digging digital holes to keep their network secure.

>>9066905
You don't get it. The exchanges want big blocks.

>>9066940
>limiting cryptos capabilities to Visa tier use cases

Never going to make it.

>>9066933
you guys repulse normies away with your geek talk you retarded loser. If normies aren't buying in then it's done for. Think about it retard

Sage

>>9066935
Yep

>China constantly up the asses of crypto exchanges
>bans crypto-trading
>somehow ignores giant Bitmain mining facilities

Okay Jihan, sure...

>>9066935
You utter fucking moron. That would instantly invalidate the majority of value in his business. He is intelligent enough to know that it is in his interests that mining is distributed around the globe, and it is the necessary long term nash equilibrium for the situation at any rate. As soon as the Chinese, or any national government, actually manages to effectively tamper with a blockchain by engaging in miner capture, everyone that values immunity to said tampering will simply migrate away and those miners will no longer be trusted or useful, it's exactly the kind of thing that would provoke an POW change.

>>9066963
>works at exchange
>admits he wants LN
>gets btfo by the actual incentives exchanges have for LN
>a-actually exchanges w-want b-big blocks

>>9067002
>Chinese
>Owns Business
wew lad, gonna have to sit you down

>>9067048
Yeah, Chinese are really unfamiliar with capitalism and owning shit, I guess you've never visited Vancouver or Sydney and seen what they do when they get fat stacks of cash. Exactly what the fuck everyone else in the world does. They're communists in name and convenience only.

>>9066935

only mining nodes matter. even if non mining nodes saw transactions they don't agree with, they are powerless to do anything about it. Non mining nodes have zero affect on ledger entries

>>9067083
keep digging deeper

you must think China is a government too

>>9064944
BCH exists because BTC failed the load test. The game is adapt, or die.

>>9066880
See >>9066860
Please tell me how you make lightning payments without using a lightning node to open a new channel?

>>9066806
>shows up almost instantly and is settled in 10mins
Nano is settled immediately. Btrash is just a shitty bitcoin clone with no purpose.

>>9067181
DAGs are literal shit teir tech that has existed for decades and never applied to this use case before because they ultimately dont work and require centralization.

>>9067126
I think China, like practically every other government, is a garden variety parasitical totalitarian dictatorship. But they are no less self interested and rational than their counterparts, and will not do idiotically stupid things to compromise their own fucking interests, which is the basis upon which Nakamoto consensus is built.

>>9067218
ding ding

I'd rather be a cashie over using fucking Nano

>>9067181
Proof of work is the only fair system. DAG, rich get richer. POS, rich get richer. POW constantly require technology reinvestment.

>>9067218
Ok then use any other altcoin that's just as fast. The argument people make for bcash is that it's faster and low fees. Tons of alts already do that. It seems more like they simply want the bitcoin name.

>>9067249
where are you getting this from, the Chinese compromise their positions all the time

also, China isn't a government

>>9067096
>they are powerless to do anything about it.
right, except, you know, not having to trust other people when you accept payments.
to be trustless, you need to run your own node.
you cannot call it a trustless network if everyone has to trust someone else.

>>9067273
Xmr is my largest position. Bch is second. All others are gambles and ultimately dont matter. Although eth is a decent hold for namesake.

>>9067273
BCH wants BTC to pass the load test but BTC whales are too busy defending their 'store of value'. Funny how the value may be in adapting.

>>9065027
>BCH 17k
Aaaaahahahahahaha

>>9067002
>>9067083
>>9067096
LMAO
You know what else "invalidates the value in his business"?
Being sent to the fucking gulag in North Korea!

If you think the Chinese gov, which bans facebook, censors wikipedia and doesn't even let it's own fucking currency float,
if you think those guys are going to ignore Jihan making literal billions printing unregulated internet bucks then you are terminally naive.

>>9067317
Xmr does everything bch does already plus stealth. Why bother with bch then? That's my argument. It doesn't do anything better than any alt. It simply wants to become bitcoin.

>>9067281
Compromising your positions is not compromising your interests. And playing semantic games with language adds no value to the discussion, say what you mean or shut the fuck up.

all that was needed was to increase 1 MB blocks to 2 MB blocks

1) bitcoin cash wouldn't exist
2) all developers would still be on BTC
3) stores wouldn't have dropped BTC due to risk of random high fees
4) lightning network could have been developed for another 5 years and wouldnt have been released in a broken state, which sullies the bitcoin name

think about it. one tiny little change would have prevented all of this.

Your fud is useless, Corecuck. Bitcoin's days are numbered.

>>9067345
Bch is doing everything, but isnt private. Itll do smart contracts, colored coins, and actually scale. Xmr for the time being is the best "currency" coin on the market. If however bch adds extension blocks and zksnarks, xmr could be in trouble. Until then, I'll hold both.

>>9067340
Which is why it's in his fucking interests to say "Sure I'll comply with whatever directive you supply honourable party comrade as is my duty, but you should know that if we do x then y will necessarily occur." at which point honourable party comrade will instead opt to direct him to perform z, because they're not fucking idiots either and don't want to lose their strategic advantage by killing the golden goose.

>>9067370
>Mom I posted again

>>9067419

>>9067385
And that tiny little change would have shown that the devs and community can be bullied into accepting the demands of large companies into the space.

Freindly reminder that the S2X code was bugged at launch and would have caused havoc on day 1.

>>9067404
>the golden goose
Are you serious?
You think China's interest in Bitcoin is collecting Jihans piddling profits?

this is pure organic growth and DEFINITELY not a pump and dump scheme

>>9067488

>>9067467
naturally im not talking about segwit or segwit2x, that shit is cancer. im talking about the discussion to increase the block sizes that has been going on since 2015. one tiny change in bitcoin's source code could have prevented all of this. just 1 line of code basically.

>>9067488
OTC trades have dried up. That's what the combination of institutional money + tethered reentry looks like.

>>9067504
perfect

>>9067506
There is no reason to have a hardfork for no good technical reason. Particularly one that makes the volunteer aspect of the network even more difficult to participate in.

https://medium.com/@rusty_lightning/the-three-economic-eras-of-bitcoin-d43bf0cf058a

>>9065644

C O P E
O
P
E

>>9067573
whoops, you're part of the problem. never mind.
good day sir.

>>9067573
That quote is unbelievable

>>9067476
I think china's interest in any currency is that it harms the usd more than it harms the cny. Since they appear to be trying to run a relatively clean market (Shanghai physical gold exchange vs transparent Saudi asskissing and military adventurism in the middle east for muh petrodollar even at the risk of war with Russia) they must know that a sound money will hurt USD more than CNY. So they crackdown on local usage to prop up CNY as much as they can whilst letting it tear the USD a new asshole in international markets.

>>9067614
No, you are.

>>9066940
Can visa clear contracts?
>>9067273
And it's tied to the genesis block

i literally made all of my money holding, at the time i got it, 500 dollars in BCH...now im almost at 100k thank bitcoin cash, aka, the real bitcoin

>>9067660
There is no need to get into the specifics of Chinese monetary policy.
The facts are very clear:
China having control over the direction of Bitcoin's future is bad.
Pursuing BCH's roadmap makes that control more likely (it is already very likely).
Therefore BCH is bad.

>>9066210
just got back from 2025: this man is wealthy

>>9066901
KYC requirements to do anything at the protocol level is how you know crypto is dead. honest to god, fuck that shit.
bitcoin was birthed out of the 2008 economic crisis - never forget that.

>>9067797
You sound pretty racist for a Jew.

>>9065638
It actually will be, by 2019. It won't be necessarily number one, but when BTC starts to slow down again... Nano will pump hard

>>9068406
>falling for the DAG meme

>>9066457
> Doesn't force you
> You can pay way too much in fees if you want to

You're not forced to eat either. You are free to die from hunger if you do desire.

I'm with China I don't like bitcoin either, on the other hand I like BCH which they prefer as well

>>9068426
It's the LN equivalent. It's not as secure as mined coins, but it's perfect for daily purchases and micro transactions. But you never have to understand channels or pay any fees.

>>9068520
>It's the LN equivalent
How and you know that's a bad thing, right?

>>9068406
Nano is the first crypto that is what people expect of a currency.

>>9065008
>why would anyone want the nike brand to sell his own chinese knockoff?

>>9065672
cope

>>9067096
Go to bed, Craig.

>>9067784
Ditto brah. We are all going to make it.

>>9068738

Miner signalling show Bcore is basically just hanging around until the miners decide to dump it. Merchants, users and Miners all want bitcoin cash

>>9064944
Yes. It was a threat against BCore not wanting to following through with bitcoin improvement proposals. BCore signaled compromise, and BCash went ahead and fucked off anyways.

It was an experiment in price anchoring via futures and pressuring exchanges to legitimize and distribute a fork. It, unfortunately worked and caused BCore to rightfully back away from compromise on block sizes.

Now Bitcoin Cash exists only to be wash traded to favourable exchange rates then swapped to brainlets for BTC. Sometimes BTC is crashed to encourage the rise in BCH. Sometimes it isn't and it's some weird shit like a 20% pump before Roger goes on Info Wars. But every time it's end game is increasing the BTC stack of the BCH creators and whales.

>>9066816
Imagine that BCH is supported by the Banks and that the entire Blockstream conspiracy is just conspiracy. Finance Blockstream with a bit Pocket Money, use a gullible goy with a damaged ego like Ver to spread propaganda like Hitler and you are already playing 4D Chess. Do you really think the Banks are that stupid? Oh boy, Divide and Conquer.