/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>895878
Everything thats not math/nature science/medicine gets shat on here and everywhere online.

Psychology, history, political science, criminology, journalism, law etc

>>895878

Most degrees are meme degrees.

As an employer, I'm more interested in the individual candidate, though I've definitely noticed some trends. I'll leave out most of the middle because it's not useful information.

>Philosophy, Economics, History, Biology
Immediate +1 to any candidate. People from these backgrounds are routinely my favourite to work with and outperform their colleagues from other backgrounds.

>Political science, English literature, Psychology, Business

Into the recycling it goes. I'll have a decaf green tea.

Information Systems is the consolation degree for people who couldn't hack CS. It's watered down CS and is a meme degree for people who couldn't finish a meme degree.

If CS was a grade A meme degree, IS would be AA. In case you're wondering, MIS (Management Information Systems) is the AAA meme degree. It's even more watered down than IS, and the people in the major delude themselves into thinking they're more employable because they took some introductory business classes.

>>895878
Economics is literally a shit degree (I know, I have one).

But in the real world:
>Wow! You're going to fix the economy!
>Economy #1 issue Presidential debate 2012
>Whoa... I got a D in Microeconomics 101

And my favorite:
>What's that?
"You wouldn't understand."

Fucking normies man. If only they knew all I did was read Smith, Mun, Ricardo, and Hayek in college.

>>895915
>as an employer

Is this what you do when you play make believe world with your stuffed animals?

>>895928
So you regret it? My roommate is doing it and he's so clueless it's funny... (OP here)

>>895928
>>895940
I'm someone else who has an econ degree

I regret it immensely, such a bogus subject (at least anything thats macro)

>CS is a meme degree

my paycheck would like a word with you

>>895928
>studying pseudoscience
>ever

Is health administration a meme degree

>>895916

I have a masters in information systems. I got it as an attempt to overcome the limitations of my shitty Psych and Econ degrees.

It worked. 20 months after graduating I make $110k/year.

How's chemistry (the science)? I'm graduating soon, M. Sc. in Germoney. I'm going for a PhD which pays at least halfway decent here, and luckily I have some decent savings and no debt.

Business, and all of its variants, is the #1 useless meme degree. Business administration is the most cringe worthy major.

Normies fucking love this major though. Literally everyone knows a guy that is a business major that will tell you he's gonna be running his own company when he graduates

Finance is #2 on the list. 90% of people decided on this major after watching Wolf on Wallstreet.

Honorable mentions to psychology, criminal justice, political science,philosophy, and economics

Mechanical fucking engineering. While it will give you a decent income straight off that bat, the VAST majority of ME's stagnate and never make more than 100K a year.

They tend to think they're brilliant and better than anyone else who isn't an engineer, even though their role is basic calculations and retard-level problem solving in 99% of jobs. Because of their pretension and general autism they usually lack the gumption to get promoted to even a PM role, so they slave away at a cubicle for their entire career.

Unless you've got the drive to get an MS or MBA and pursue leadership, becoming a professional engineer is entirely mediocre.

>>895967
What do you do? Job title?

>>895878
All degrees are meme degrees, unless you're in the top fraction of a percent of your field.

How do employers look at degrees compared to diplomas or certificates?

Is accounting bad? Will I be ok if I'm a CPA?

I want to become an Investment Banker, I have the money and the grades to go to any undergrad/grad school I want, in Canada and the US. I made it to the national level of a few business competitions and computer science competitions. I have great work experience, and my parents can pay for whatever I need in terms of extravagant networking parties and the "life"

I was thinking if Investment Banking, or Consulting mostly, since I enjoy that type of socialising, working with clients.

>>896020

Forgot to add my question, what kind of degree should I take?

Mathematics, Computer Science, or Economics? What about Social Science like Sociology, or Psychology?

Does it matter?

>>895992
Most engineers never break 80k. Its a saturated field. The ones that do, often live in Silicon Valley, NYC, or Seattle. Unless you work for the government, those guys pay anyone in the GS-12 and above six figures. Also MBA are becoming useless these days. Too many people have them. I do agree with the MS degree. A PhD helps if you want to design things at the governmental level.

>>896025
Like everyone has already said, it depends on what career you want. As a math major I can tell you if you plan on going into Math, you should double with CS or Econ depending on where you want to go later, with CS being the better choice. A Math/CS double major puts you ahead of CS code monkeys and math nerds who don't know what's going on inside computers. Math/Econ will basically just put you above pure Econ majors and give you an edge for more quantitative finance positions (not like quants on wall street, just more mathematically oriented finance jobs).

>>896030

What is a quant exactly? /biz/ always says they earn a lot?

>>896030
Do Stats/Econ or finance. This is what Quant do. But you need a masters at minimum. But I agree with your teaming up with math with another major. You can do Physics and CS which is much better for software engineering.

>>896036

Does it matter which school you go to for these Quant jobs? Or to work on Wall Street, or could you really go to anywhere for your undergrad, and go to a good school for your Masters?

>>895968

Any one of the hard sciences is a good degree. It's hard to fuck up with them.

>>896033

Quants fuck around with the algos and the HTF shit that's basically the engine room of any big bank. You need to be excellent at maths, excellent at coding and excellent at problem solving because you'll be given autonomy to do your own thing and come up with new angles strategies etc. And, as with every IB job, you'll need to be comfortable with working ridiculous fucking hours so a small dose of aspieness also helps.

>>896009
I'm not in the US, but accountancy seems to be the blue chip qualification in business. The average FTSE 100 chairman is a chartered accountant.

INDISPUTABLE MEME DEGREE POWER RANKING

>psychology
>journalism
>criminology

(Not including typical sociology/communications/arts degree BS because we all know they're shithouse)

>>895984
The problem with "Business" degrees is that people actually think it'll help them run a business one day. Couldn't be further from the truth.

>>896041

I see, I'm totally fine with the long hours, I prefer having something to do instead of going home and doing nothing for most of the week haha.

Seems interesting, any ideas for which schools to go to? Also, first I do my undergrad, then work a bit, and then do my Masters right, or do I do my undergrad, then go to grad school, then do my Masters?

>>896025
>>896025
>investment banking

IB is the only lucrative finance gig where being a finance or Econ major really helps you, as they recruit almost exclusively from those majors for internships (some math and engineering guys too).

IB is a people driven-industry. You will not succeed unless you're sociable and get along with others. Genius-level IQ spergs need not apply. That's what quants are for. The hardest math you will ever do in IB is single-variable calculus.

>>896047

Yeah, but how many of them were chartered accountants to being with? The accountancy qualifications are something you can learn on the job. In fact, sponsorship for them is a big hook a lot of the financial services firms use to attract grads.

>>896057
>Yeah, but how many of them were chartered accountants to being with?
What do you mean? You're not born chartered? Everyone has to train at some point.

>>896053
This. Its actually how to maintain someone else business. Often business owners are accountants or liberal arts grads.

>>896056
>The hardest math you will ever do in IB is single-variable calculus.
Calc 1, yes. Derivatives are what you need.

>>896057
Not him, but in the U.S. you can only become a CPA by doing actual on the job training in an accountant capacity, along with extra coursework in accounting on top of your degree (whether or not you majored in accounting)

No one becomes a CPA by accident. You really have to want to do it for a gig at least for a while

>>896054

Most people go straight into their Masters directly after their undergrad and squeeze some internships in there while they do it. And you might want to do some research into what exactly people in IB do. The Hollywood idea you've seen where you swan from fancy restaurant to fancy restaurant sipping cocktails five nights of the week couldn't be further from the truth. You'll work similar hours to a 1920s coal miner, eat at your desk, and spend most of your time fucking around with MS Excel when you're not correcting spelling mistakes in your bosses Powerpoint slides. There's scope for making an absolute fortune but it's far from glamorous and even if you are one of the gifted quant types, you might ask yourself if your skills are not better applied elsewhere.

>>896056

So, basically I have to understand first year Math really well, and then do my Masters after that?

Is it possible to be "overqualified" for an IB job? I was planning on doing a double degree, in Math + CS, or Math + Law, or CS + Law.

It would take me around 6-7 years to complete the double degree, and then I was thinking of going to grad school, and doing Economics or Finance, and then doing the Masters or PhD.

Does it matter if you do your Masters after grad school, or should you ideally do it as soon as you're done your undergrad?

I know it's a lot of school, but I don't really mind since I enjoy learning in a way. But would I just be wasting my time, or would it give me a significant advantage over other people applying for the same jobs? I'd also be like 30 by the time I finished all my schooling.

But if I just did my undergrad, in CS+Math, for 5 years, then I could go do my Masters in 1-2 years, and be around 27, and be finished.

Would the 3 extra years, gaining 2 undergrad degrees, and another degree in grad school, plus having over 4 years of coop or internship experience, and probably around 5 - 6 years of work experience, help me, or not?

>>896059
>>896062

What I meant is how many of them have degrees in accountancy? In the UK at least (I assume it's the same in America) you can take the accountancy qualifications regardless of degree discipline. If you end up as a CEO, yes, you're likely to be a chartered accountant but that should have no bearing on what major someone should pick as you're not prohibited from qualifying later.

>>896063
Hollywood idea of IB was always a satire view of the industry. They could be going to fancy restaurant to another, everyday but instead the industry is stuck in the 1920s. Its a great way to get experience and then go to a smaller firm. You only need a year of experience.

>>896067
I'll put it this way, the other anon saying you need an MBA to break into IB is a retard.

90% of first-year analysts are fresh graduates who interned for their companies the summer before senior year, got the job at the end of that summer or early on in their senior year, and won't go back for their Masters for at least 4 to 5 years.

IB is a very specific career track: analyst - associate - VP/MD.

If IB is what you want to do, you just need to get into a target school and work your ass off to get that internship.

Source: I am good friends with 4 IBs (1 at BAML, 1 at William Blaid, 1 at Citi, and the last at a PE firm who started at Credit Suise

Check out wallstreetplayboys.com it'll tell you everything else you could need to know

>>896067

What exactly is it you want to do? Do you want to be a quant or an analyst or work in the corporate law department?

You sound like you're more in love with the idea of an IB than the reality of working in one.

Bottom line: if you want to go quant, you'll need a PhD in something substantive, highly mathematical and with a lot of programming involved, like CS or physics.

If you want a foot-in-the-door analyst position, you can get that with a Bachelor's degree from a good school, good extra-curriculars and some internships. A Masters will help but anything more and you're overqualified and wondering why the fuck you dropped all that money on a PhD to be some dude's Excel monkey.

>>896068
Most CPA's have a bachelors in accounting. If you don't major in it you basically have to get a Masters in Accounting or a post-bacc certificate in accounting to even meet the educational requirements necessary for the CPA exam

>tfw you get your meme degree in CS because disorganized and don't know what to do
>tfw you realize the end of senior year you actually wanted to do Math

>>896084

Yeah, it's different over here. For example, the Big 4 take grad applications from every degree subject possible but if you apply to work in the audit department (for example), they'll sponsor you through the UK accountancy qualifications, give you time off for study etc. and the on-the-job work counts towards the professional experience part. You don't even need to have seen a P&L sheet before.

>>896077
>>896083

I wouldn't mind working in any of those departments, that's the problem, I just don't know, which is why I wanted to do all the types of school so I could decide!

But if I had to choose right now, I would probably do Analyst, since Stats was my best class all through high school, got 100s on everything! My second choice would be corporate law though, since I do enjoy the law ALMOST as much as stats.

So, I guess if I want to become an Analyst, just get into a good school to finish my undergrad, then apply to some epic internships, and then basically just get hired after that?

I was thinking of applying to the Google Internship, and I'm pretty sure I have a good shot of getting in, for their Sales or Marketing internships. Would something like that, help out a lot?

The school I'd probably choose would be University of Toronto, or University of British Columbia.

I guess I'll just do either Mathematics, or Computer Science since a double degree seems sort of useless if I'll be overqualified.

After that, should I apply to US schools for my Masters, or would one from Canada work just as well?

>>895992
Mech E here

made 80k for my first job in texas, now make 110

>>896028
nigga u are high if you think that's true.

>>896100

A double major is fine.

For internships, if you want to work in a bank, try and get internships in a bank. Most analyst, as was said, above, are recruited from previous interns becasue by then you already have experience of the industry. Where you get your Masters from is up to you but, like the undergrad, try and go to the best school possible. Google "Canada target schools" - there should be a list somewhere of the unis Canadian IBs actively recruit from.

>>896112
You're an idiot if you believe all engineers will make 100k. That's not true. At best mid career you'll break into the 60-70k range. Its a saturated field. You're better off in management. I work as an engineer, so I know what I'm talking about. Lawyers, Nurses, Doctors, and accountants make more than engineers. They're part of the professional degree class of college.

>>896124
I'm a third year mech engineer here. What would you recommend? I'm strongly considering a masters.

>>896112
He's right fuckboy. Staff engineers are a dime a dozen. Unless you can siphon oil money in Texas or or become a senior software dev for a tech company, you are not going to break 100K with just a BS and your PE. Best get your MBA or PMP so people will treat you better than an entry-level numbers monkey

>>896133
Scrape until you get your PE, then look for an MS if you still love the work, or get an MBA/PMP/both and become a project managef

>>896002
Bump for this.

>>896124
fresh graduates from my college, which is a mediocre, non-flagship state school, were getting offers in the 50-65k range.

>>896171
That's the best they'll make as an engineer without an MBA to go into project management. Even then, PM is populated by business and liberal arts grads.

>>896176
so you're saying they'll never get a raise from their starting pay? because i highly doubt that.

>>896178
Maybe like 10% but most people in America don't get raises by teh way. Unless you move companies. But most people don't move because a slag/kid or family. Engineers start off great early on, but by mid-career your wages are average to below for mid-level college grads. STEM jobs are easily the most flooded of any field. This is why medicine has this artificial supply need. They lobby the government, by they I mean the AMA to prevent new med schools from opening and capping numbers of seats allowed at exiting med schools. This creates high cost of medicine and high wages. This is going to change soon. The numbers of doctors needed for the future are representable of the number med students in med school.

>>896181
>The numbers of doctors needed for the future are representable of the number med students in med school.
number of doctors needed for the future are not equal to the amount of med students in school. Only like 2% of college grads go to med school, and of that 2% only 1.5% gradaute.

>>895946
>>895928

Did you guys even take any math along with econ? Only retards dont take proper math/stats courses.

Masters is pretty boss too if you have enough math for it.

How to apply to Ivy League Schools? What sorts of ECs should I have? What marks should I have in my classes? I'll be an international applicant, so how would getting a VISA work? Can I work while on a student visa, or would I need a work visa? How do I get a student loan, and I know international costs can be extremely expensive, so can I move to the US like a month before school, and pay US student prices, with like a student visa, or study visa, or something like that?

Thanks biz

>TL:DR - Tell me all about Ivy League schools

>>895878

Do you honestly think anyone on biz knows what they're talking about?

>>896261
Not really. I've realized that lately.

>>895878
>meme degrees
anything in STEM

>>895984
As a dude with a political science degree: it's a bullshit degree.

I got a decent entry white-collar job in dc based entirely on my internships, ability to interview, and the fact that I had a degree rather than the content of that degree.

Unless you expect to be able to do the above and just happen to like reading political philosophy enough to pay a school to guide the experience, don't.

>>895915
>philosophy, history

gr8 b8 m8

>>896115

I checked in on Target Schools, and basically UofT, UBC, and McGill are the only ones, and that's too far away from me to afford :/

I think I'll go for a Business Degree (BComm) from a mid tier university in Canada, one that offers COOP, so I can get some 20 months of experience which should be enough to land a good enough job which can help me at least get to a proper US school for my Masters.

Those target schools will cost me like 35k a year, and me and my sister are going to college at the same time, so it will be extremely expensive!

I've looked into University of Guelph, and University of York, but York is in a bad part of town so Guelph would be my first option, and its a tight knit community so the socialising and networking would be easier, at Guelph I think, and its only 20 minutes away from home, so cost will be extremely low for me!

Thank you for all the help, I think this is the best route to go for me personally, at least for now, so I can get those high marks and be accepted for a good Masters program.

Appreciate it a lot anon(s)!

>>896083
I have 3 internships, last one at an auto-finance as an analyst but want to get into IB as an analyst

Have some good projects, business idea competitions, 3 internships, but
>~3.0 gpa

should I even bother? do I have any chance

>>896347
If you're saving a lot of money go to Guelph but please make you're concentration something good.

What's wrong with criminology, my gfs dad manages the local jail and makes like 95K, and this is the Midwest where 95K makes you rich as hell

International Studies Degree is THE meme degree

>>896414

Yeah I'm saving quite a bit, like my tuition would be around $7000 for the year (8 months) and then I'll have to spend around $250 on fuel, and $300 for insurance, which means my total costs are going to be around $4800 for transportation, versus $20,000 for residence + meal plan + monthly bus tickets to go home. My OSAP (FASFA equivalent) will give me around $3500-$4250 per 4 month term, so I'm looking at around $7000 to $8500, probably somewhere in the middle in government loans, which I don't have to pay interest for 6 months after graduation.

So my only real cost will be around $5000 a year, compared to the target schools where tuition would be like $10,000-$12,000, and then $20,000+ in year 3/4. I'm basically saving enough in my undergrad to fully pay for my US Masters, because I'm saving like $20,000 a year, and I'll be working co op which should give me around $550-$850/week, which is like $2500 a month, for 20 months, and like 6 more months of random work, it should get me like $60,000 over the next 4 years, and I'll have like $140,000 available for me to go to school, $30,000 of which I'll have to pay back student loans, so $110,000 would be my bottom line.

I think it's a better option for me personally, since $100k is a lot to have saved up and available for use, compared to being almost broke!

>>896378

You might struggle to get into anything bulge bracket but try your luck with a boutique. Failing that, try and get an internship at one of the big banks. Also depends on what you studied.are studying.

>>896647
im finance and accounting at an average (but rising) school

do you have any tips? should I just be cold-emailing boutique banks?

I'm actually doing Applied Mathematics, tell me about how I'm gonna be making 6 figures upon graduating.

>>896647

Most places have "Spring weeks" that they recruit for around this time of the year. I'd start with the websites first before firing off emails.

>>896692
lmao

>>896885
>yfw I literally picked Applied Math to study because of the memes