/biz/ - Business & Finance

Just Jacob playing with his new toy.

>>8823691
>And don't say >muh whales dumping
Then I don't know what to say.

>I refuse to believe
Ok. Well then it's aliens.

People place big bets that btc will not go down.

If the amount of bets placed is larger than the amount it takes to take the tip of the of the orderbook down, the exchange will market sell themselves. It's _literally_ free money.

Low liquidity + bots reaching a level of critical danger in their indicators + manipulation. All of above.

>>8823691
muh wales dumping

>>8823691
Literally whales dumping causing longs to liquidate, causing a harder dump.

Think of it as kicking off an avalanche by pushing some snow.

>>8823691
welcome in the real world, this is caused by 1 individual, he sold a shitton.

When is all this bigwig money actually supposed to start coming into crypto?

>>8823730
Well the snow is melting
not much for an avalanche left

Retarded gamblers bet on bitcoin going up/down, exchanges see that and fuck them over.

>>8823757
Lmao if you were a large financial institution which requires low volatility to operate and can't just LE HODL would you risk bankruptcy in this clownshow market

>>8823730
>>8823723

this except replace sell with margin short

>>8823691

Give https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oL_cLtw6WNM a watch. Applies to crypto.

>>8823691
I mean just look at the buy volume the past couple days, did you really expect to not get dumped on? we're in a bear market still amigo

>>8823691
> I refuse to believe any single individual has enough capital to influence the market this much

That's why their called whales. THEY ARE MASSIVE.

>>8823691
>muh whales
>single individual

>whales
>s

>>8823723
This. It's exchanges eating the shorts, nothing else.

>>8823786
b-but you told me the institutions are coming and theyre only accumulating

IM going long x10 @6700 this was a long hunt before 7.4 it will go back to 7.4. Before going below 6K I have titanium steel coated belief

Wish me luck lads

>>8823691

Plenty of idividuals certainly have the capital but in this case as has been the case since January it's a group of whales

>>8823718
This. OP is a faggot as usual

>>8823898
>leverage trading
bet you go to bitmexican, like a fool

>>8823691
those dips are not insane
and the answer is: low volume

>>8823691

Of course it's whales. Do you seriously think there's a bunch of coordinated NEETs from /biz/ with enough money to move the market 5% up or down within 5 mins?

It's the big guys - they aren't even bothering to mask it with fake news anymore either - nobody gives a shit. It's easy OP - just trade the bart pattern.

>>8823794
no, the exchange doesn't margin short, they sell a large amount of the underlying asset itself. margin trading is largely cash settled, not btc settled.
there's a reason they are called derivatives.
the exchange offers derivative trading, and then takes a position in the underlying asset counter to the positions taken by customers using trading the derivatives.

you can't move btc by trading derivatives, you can only move it by participating in the btc market

>>8823969
>implying exchanges don't have a shitload of cash to trade as dummy accounts

Soros is selling

>>8823782
top kek

>>8823969
>they sell a large amount of the underlying asset itself

Assuming, we can trust them to not trade against their customers and activelly stop them out of their position.
Audits and legal responsibility would be nice, but well...

I was thinking of opening a long before I went to bed. Thank fucking Christ I didn't.

>>8823990
>>8824028
a derivative of an asset is an instrument that mirrors the underlying asset, and so moves in synch with the underlying asset
short/long using derivatives does not directly influence the price of the underlying asset.
whales/exchanges take positions counter to the majority and then use their assets to swing the underlying asset in the direction they want,

however with exchanges, they don't have to take positions using their own derivative because they own the exchange and that segment of the derivative market, so all they have to do is liquidate you. which they do by moving the underlying asset with the funds that you give to them when you deposit money. the exchange doesn't have to trade their own derivative to take a position counter to you, because when you take a position using their exchange it happens automatically as they own the fucking exchange.

its a multi layer system, here this should help:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1339&v=oL_cLtw6WNM

>>8824298
Dude, they leverage it up for their own profit, never said it moves the price directly

MASSIVE BUY ORDER JUST APPEARED

>>8824329
and its gone
cancelled, not filled

>>8824329
and?
Somebody tries to play more games

>>8824298
Now I get what you wanted to say.
Mea culpa.

>>8823782
saved

These are the results of squeezes on leveraged positions. This place is full of fucking retards. I seriously don't know how you all don't know this. The more time I spend here, the more I realize that I need to act fast and take as much money from you fucking idiots as I possibly can before the well dries up and this shit gets regulated. I hate you all so god damn much.

>>8824386
bye bye
and come again

>>8823691
retarded margin traders overextending, unironically

on both sides

>>8824315
exchanges don't have to go out and take a position against you.
a position counter to yours is automatically established when you take a position using the derivative that the exchange provides

the exchange borrows money, purchasing liquidity. traders deposit money adding a little to the liquidity pool as a down payment/collateral on the ability to have higher liquidity in the form of leverage provided by the exchange. traders then use this borrowed liquidity to place bets on the movement of the underlying asset, without actually using the asset, and instead using the derivative provided by the exchange. this is the only way the system works, if the exchange gave you leverage on the actual underlying asset it wouldn't be able to provide leverage.

now you have an exchange with a larger pool of liquidity, from all the deposits from traders, which the exchange uses to pay the principle on the liquidity it borrowed from banks, and it also uses it's pool of liquidity to "hedge" by taking positions in the UNDERLYING ASSET counter to the positions taken by traders using the DERIVATIVE
by buying the derivative, you automatically enter into a contract that pits you against the exchange/provider of the derivative in a game of who can come out on top and make money, the exchange always wins partially because they take all the liquidity they have and use it to influence the underlying asset while the people trading the derivative can't influence the underlying asset.

i can only explain this so well, and only has so much patience. watch the video, take a second, and think about what this means

>>8823691
>don't say what actually happens
Ok, it's a coincidence that in 30 minutes a bunch of different unrelated people around the world dump 3 million dollars worth of bitcoins. They all just woke up at the same time and said "yeah, I feel like dumping today"

>>8824629
3 million dollars? Lol the volume on that 30 minute dump was over 12,000 BTC on bitfinex alone.

These are hundreds of millions of dollars bro.

Whales want to dump and ha é veem dumping for a while. However there's no enough liquidity to dump their stacks without moving the price to zero. What do they do then? They prop up the price, bulls and bots jump in and create liquidity which whales use to dump.

>>8824691
That further demonstrates my point. I think I got the 3 million number from Bittrex alone. It is also enterely possible that I pulled it out of my ass. Point is: a fuckton of money in a small timespan is not organic, hence whales/exchanges manipulating are obvious and muh whales deniers are retarded.

>>8823704
you fell for the rothschild meme...this is why you're a brainlet and will never make money
>>8820996

>>8824712
So why don't they not dump and pump the market to sustainable leveled out trading at 3 times the current price?

And if theyre playing shorts why stop dumping. They have tens-hundreds of thousands of BTC they could take us down to 1k in a minute.

>>8823691
>don't say >muh whales dumping. I refuse to believe that any single individual has enough capital to cause a dip like that.
Others have raised this point, but anyone who spent $10 to $100 on this 8 years ago has more than enough power to create this in the market now. If you look at it at current valuations, it may seem like a crazy amount of capital to you, but it was basically free back then and a lot of current whales now are just people who threw money at the right project at the right moment.

So I wouldn't say it's whales dumping, but it's whales manipulating the market, yes, and a lot of people have enough "capital" to do this, since it's not real money in the first place.

>>8824592
Holy shit. Bitmex says it is a P2P futures exchange. Do you thinks more like a CFD exchange?

>>8823691
>have lots of money
>make big buy order, creating huge big green dildo on the charts
>retards be like: we moon now
>people start buying and raising the price a bit more
>dump bags on their pleb heads
>rinse and repeat

>>8825062
idk exactly what the definition is, but they operate on the same principles

the exchanges makes money by convincing people to take disproportionate risk compared to their potential reward, and to over-leverage so they can't maintain their positions over long periods of time, this is done using leverage.

by offering leverage, they take advantage of the 90/90/90 rule knowing that if given the opportunity, most people will get greedy, and only be able to see the short term, and over do things so they get liquidated.
even if it's peer to peer, your goal is still to increase the liquidation rate.
if you are doing p2p, you are acting as a broker between the two parties on each side of the swap. you take a commission fee every time an exchange happens, so that means opening and closing a position.
your goal is then to increase the rate at which positions either voluntarily or involuntarily open and close. the platform incentives the opening of positions that are too large and that are unbalanced by offering leverage. this lets them charge bigger fees for using and maintaing margin because you are borrowing on interest, and then it also sets them up to automatically make money when you get it wrong and get liquidated

the company can run in that way and be profitable, but this also generates information on how many people are taking what side of a trade, and information can be used to generate additional profit when you know what to do with it and stay ahead of the curve, smart players with lots of capital can now take advantage of the retail market slumping and interest dying off despite the real world use of the tech to kick things back into gear

considering the fact that short positions have been increasing, and big players and institutions are starting to come into the market, and our rate of decent has been slowing, and we are seeing support in the 7k range which is pretty far into where the largest panic drop was, the market may be starting to reverse.

bump

>>8823718
Only logical explanation

>>8824340
In a regulated market, brokers will 86 your account so fast if you keep putting up fake buy orders and not fulfilling them.

>>8823691
It's people with a lot of money who are trading technically.

>>8823782
kek

>>8826510
this

regulation is necessary

bitmex dying is necessary, enjoy your retarded gambling, faggots

>>8824329
>>8824340
>>8826510


why is it that when these fake walls go up, that the whole rest of graph is built way up too ? it should show a big dip inbetween where the fake order is and then back way low where normal is...

>>8826596
EXAMPLE FROM A DIFFERENT VIEW OF FAKE SELL WALLS LOOK AT THIS SHIT WHAT IS IT A 4K BTC SELL ORDER THAT GOT PULLED AND THEN BTC WHEN ON A TEAR FOR ANOTHER ~230 OR SO...

>>8826584
>Regulation is necessary
Say goodbye to your 100x shitcoin gains and bitcoin ever going to $100k+ in the next 5 years then

>>8826724
that was gone as soon as wall street and u.s congress started fingering it 3 months ago

>>8823691
>I refuse to believe that any single individual has enough capital to cause a dip like that.

>>8823691
google "spoofy"

theres a lot of bored billionaires in the world

lmao like you even need a lot of "capital" to cause a sub 1k movement

>>8823691
Sure, maybe not indiduals, but you heard about cartel manipulation? A bunch of rich/middle class folks get together and pool their resources and then cause a panic

>>8823691
>I refuse to believe x
There is your problem, dont be so narrow minded