/biz/ - Business & Finance

Ure moment gay lol

>>8817799
ahahaha nice

> Anyone left in the market today has very strong hands.

you're wrong, once we go under 6k (which should happen on our next break down, that will only happen after we go past 7,700 and trap all longs) you'll see a huge influx of desperate ppl capitulating and selling their cold storages.

holding was unironically pretty easy thus far, wait until real capitulation eventually haappens.

>>8817790
thanks just longed 100x

>>8817790
But muh manipulation!! I can’t possibly be losing money because I made terrible investment decisions.

Whales eat whales too

>>8817790

It will be saved.

>>8817790
You're correct, we're never going below 5900. It's literally impossible.

>>8817790
you must understand they propped price up in first place
when they exit, all fishies tho bought at higher price are eated

if you note understand this, then should not of trading
Whales propping up price at 7k right now
When they let go they will eat all fishies who bought at 7k

>>8817805
for some reason i unironically believe this

>>8817805
>you're wrong, once we go under 6k (which should happen on our next break down, that will only happen after we go past 7,700 and trap all longs) you'll see a huge influx of desperate ppl capitulating
We've already been below 6K. Why would going below 6K again cause people to capitulate when they didn't already capitulate at 12K, 11K, 10K, 9K, 8K, 7K or 6K?

>>8817835
>when they exit, all fishies tho bought at higher price are eated
Only if those fishies panic and sell. If they didn't panic and sell on the way down from 20K to 5.8K, why would they do it now?

So can nobody explain why a whale would wish to push BTC price down to 4K or 3K?
What's in it for them if they did manage to push the price this low? How would they benefit from it?

>>8818056
I didnt read the thread so sorry if this has been said, but they are just taking profits.
>be a whale
>sell 10% of your stack at 7,100 BTC pushing price down to 7,000
>panic sellers push down to 6,800
>buy your stack back and keep the difference as pure profit or buy your stack back + free coins

Whales profit and gain more coins everyday. They arent looking at their bitcoin as 'all their money'. Its just something they play around with to extract cash and stack more.

>>8817876
Buy it when it goes under 6k then lol

>>8818090
>panic sellers push down to 6,800
Why would they panic sell now at 7K when they didn't already panic sell on the way down from 20K to 5.8K?

>>8817790
firewall at 6k. the bears capitulated.

>>8817790
>If you didn't sell on the way down from 20K
almost nobody bought btc at 20k

>>8817901
fishies do NOT have the ability to prop up the price
the only way NOT to get owned by the whales is to panic sell

You would have totally missed the last plunge to 6k if you were away from your computer for a couple days, it's been bouncing around 8-12k otherwise until the last week, so if you bought at ATH you'd only be stomaching a 50%ish loss most days. There's a lot of capitulation to go if resolve is really tested as it goes down below the previous low without immediately bouncing and panic has time to set in. There probably isn't a 100% sell off at any point but every time there's a substantial drop more hands will lose their grip, along with those wanting to get in at a lower price.

>>8818174
Look at the volume charts. Volume was massive around the peak in December-January. There were a lot of buyers.

>>8818193
How does panic selling prevent someone from getting owned by whales?

>>8818174
We must not be looking at the same charts

>>8818213
>You would have totally missed the last plunge to 6k if you were away from your computer
I highly doubt many people with a significant crypto investment would have been 'away from their computer' and unable to sell during the drop to 5.8K. Anyone who didn't make any effort to check the price or panic sell during that drop clearly isn't particularly concerned about huge drops in value, and isn't going to suddenly panic next time it drops.

Like I said at the beginning, anyone still holding today after a drop from 20K to 5.8K has pretty strong hands, and if the whales think they can make these people panic sell en-masse by dumping the price, then I suspect they're going to be disappointed.

>>8817790

Your question implies that whales were/are the main reason for the next drop. If you consider Tether and Bitfenix Whales then when those exit scams take 5B with them out of the market we will see the true "bottom".

I honestly would love to enter the crypto space but while bitcoin is above 2-3k I simply cant. I seriously believe that Tether and Bitfenix are the only things slowing the "return to normal". The sooner they die, and the sooner Bitcoin hits 2-3k, Eth $150-200, Ripple 0.25 cents and a total bloodlbath on these shitcoins and ICOs the crypto space can get back to normal.

Also these billion dollar market cap valuations, I mean get a grip on reality - fuck, yes im mad.

>>8818356
damn if this is what the nocoiner noobs think then i guess 6k really is the bottom

>>8818295
>I highly doubt many people with a significant crypto investment would have been 'away from their computer'
The capitulation happened incredibly fast. 6k never broke on Bitfinex and only broke on other exchanges for an hour at most. It was under 7k for about 12 hours. It's completely possible to have missed sub-7k prices.

Again, virtually no one bought BTC at 20k.

>create stagnant market
>shill Bitmex to the max (a while ago you couldn't go on /biz/ without constant Bitmex shilling)
>desperate people who lost a lot of money get on Bitmex to recover losses (as the stagnant market takes too long for notoriously impatient crypto buyers)
>TA superstars on Twitter shill whatever you tell them to for money
>check number of longs/shorts, also buy inside info from Bitmex on large positions etc
Let's say shorts are dominant and all the TA people are calling the end of Bitcoin as instructed
>load up on long positions on Bitmex
>start buying a shitload of BTC very quickly
>Bart begins
>short positions get blown the fuck out and have to market buy BTC, greatly amplifying your pump (the quickness of the pump is to bypass stop losses on Bitmex)
>close longs, profit
>slowly sell BTC, buy back more on the small dips etc (this is Bart's hair)
>once everyone thinks BTC is back, load up on shorts
>dump all the BTC you have, blowing long positions the fuck out
>Bart complete
>buy back cheap coins
Rinse and repeat as long as there are desperate gamblers left on Bitmex.

FYI, exchanges are completely dead on real, organic volume right now. Everyone who wanted to sell has sold, and the hodltards are gonna ride this bitch to 0 at this point.

The name of the game is 100% Bitmex and sniping leveraged positions, that's why the only movement now is Bart

>>8817790
People want to make sense of a nonsensical market so they attach price to reasons
>muh news fud
>muh Soros
>muh whales
>muh regulation
>muh cartels
>muh tea leaves

>>8818356
what about regulation coming in july? how will that effect traders?

bitcoin was designed to be resileint against governments but they are cooking the frog slowly so that people can't be arsed into subverting the regulations.. could that be bad for traders?

also why aren't you trading now??? you can still make money during the time before the great tethering?

>8818408
you dont think bitfinex and tether will fail?

>>8818356
>If you consider Tether and Bitfenix Whales then when those exit scams take 5B with them out of the market we will see the true "bottom".
What if Tether doesn't "exit scam"? I unironically believe Tether is 100% backed by fiat as they claim to be, or at least close enough to 100% that it doesn't matter. The exchanges make so much money there's no reason for them not to be properly backed. There won't be a Tether exit scam, and in fact we're seeing more 'stable currencies' like Tether enter the market.

>Also these billion dollar market cap valuations, I mean get a grip on reality - fuck, yes im mad.
The billion dollar market cap doesn't mean anything - it's just the coin price X circulating supply. Only a fraction of that market cap is actual dollars invested in the market. The amount of real money invested is still very low compared to all other asset classes.

>>8818295

It recovered fairly quickly, if it had gone down and not shot up back to 7k a few hours later panic would set in more as people come to grips with whats happening, and not everyone that bought crypto sits on biz all day like us. Regardless there is very likely to be a good number of people with "iron hands" at 50% that will capitulate at 80% losses, and I doubt it will ultimately cost the whales much to find out how many there are.

>>8818243
because if sell quick enough (lets say 325 your pic) then will not be holding bags that bought @ 315 that of now worth 295

>>8818421
>it's just coincidence guys i swear
just admit you regret not making money when you had a chance and now you are fooling yourself into thinking there is no point in trying anymore because that is less risky for your ego

>>8818415
Look at the volume. Lots of people were buying close to the peak, and the vast majority of BTC holders were holding at the peak, even if they bought earlier. So my point still stands, most BTC holders were holding while prices fell from 20K to 5.8K (even if they bought prior to the peak). If they didn't already capitulate after seeing their BTC holdings fall from 20K to 5.8K, then they're unlikely to do so now, in my opinion.

>>8818463
I'm actually not even in the market by any appreciable amount but I'm excited to dump a bunch of fiat in soon

>>8818465
Virtually noone bought at 20k. I don't know what chart you're looking at.

>If they didn't already capitulate after seeing their BTC holdings fall from 20K to 5.8K
Their holdings dropped from 12k to 6k in a week, they didn't have much time to process it.

If they've been doing research and trying to trade, they'd see that a recovery after a quick capitulation is more likely vs. a long sideways/down bear market. Therefore taking money out now is reasonable, especially if they have expenses to pay.

>>8818418
>Everyone who wanted to sell has sold, and the hodltards are gonna ride this bitch
I agree with this, and also your view that the only thing the whales can really do effectively right now is liquidate longs and shorts. They can continue to Bart the prices for a while to liquidate day traders, but day traders are a small part of the overall BTC market. Most people are holders, and all Barting achieves is a temporary jump up then down then up then down again. They can't influence the overall trend this way, because Barting simply ends up with the price back where it was to begin with.

And if the whales do keep Barting to liquidate traders, then the traders will soon stop taking positions that can be so easily liquidated. They'll just stop shorting or they'll use wider stop-losses until the whales stop playing games.

>>8817790
what's the percentage of crypto held by whales vs. small investors? how heavy are their respective bags? would be interesting to know.

>>8818557
The point is whales enter their own leveraged positions before Barting. Each Bart they make a killing. And again, the stop losses simply don't work most of the time with how rapid the jumps are. Like on a technical level, they simply aren't triggered for many people before they get liquidated

>>8818555
>If they've been doing research and trying to trade, they'd see that a recovery after a quick capitulation is more likely vs. a long sideways/down bear market. Therefore taking money out now is reasonable, especially if they have expenses to pay.
If they didn't already take money out at 5.8K, why would they do it now? Remember, the vast majority of current BTC holders have been holding BTC for four months since the peak at 20K, all the way down to today's prices, and passing through $5.8K on the way. They've had four months to panic sell, if they were going to do it.

>>8818604
Like I said, if they keep doing it then traders will stop taking positions that can be Barted. If you buy and don't sell then you can't be Barted.

>>8818356
>>8818432

I dont think regulation in one zone will affect bitcoin much, it needs more usage, solutions to transaction speed and transaction fee cost. Short term day traders and currency speculation are not what bitcoin was meant to be. I dont day trade because i believe it is mostly a losers game and i am not smart enough to be ahead of the curve with some magical "algorithm".

>>8818433
I believe we need something like Tether to add liquidity and confidence to the space until bitcoin grows but the fact the last auditors left and new auditors are not lined up scares me. If they have the money then prove it, stalling means they probably dont. They may have it at some time in the future, but dumping 0.6 Billions Tethers out of no where is suspicious as fuck. Also, Panama.

What fraction of the market cap would you say is dollars invested in real terms? And how might one work that out?

>>8818619
You'd be surprised at how poor some hodlers are at trading. I know a few early ones (sub 1k) that were REALLY hurting on this last 6.4k dump. They're getting less and less resilient because they've already seen their net worth at 20k and BTC is showing less strength after every bottom.

Going from a multi-millionaire to 6 figures hurts.

>>8817790
There are ways of accumulating without the price going up anon.
You do it slowly giving other players time to place new orders at lower prices to buy from them.
To drive the price up, you do the opposite - immediately swallow all the volume up to some high price, then let others start placing orders way up there, who you can sell to.

>>8818636
Well, you're correct about people quitting margin. Bitmex had its lowest daily volume in nearly 2 months yesterday.

Hypothetically, if you have enough funds to move BTC 1%, you could have 100% ROI on bitmex every time. Hypothetically of course.

>>8818636
It's a cat and mouse game. Obviously the whales will switch up their MO once returns diminish. The difference is that as a retail investor you are woefully underequipped. At best you know some TA, but usually you rely on TA by Twitter superstars who get fed what to say by the whales to manipulate sentiment. They also have inside info from Bitmex, giving them a bird's eye view of where to strike next.

You're playing an FPS, they're playing an RTS.

>>8818645
>What fraction of the market cap would you say is dollars invested in real terms? And how might one work that out?
This is JP Morgan's view...

zerohedge.com/news/2017-12-02/jpmorgan-has-some-bad-news-bitcoin-bears

"Figure 6 shows the net amount of money invested every year since 2009. The cumulative amount has totaled around $6bn since 2009, well below the current market cap of $300bn." For Ethereum, the number is just as stark: with a market cap of $45 billion, net inflows have been under $2 billion in the past two years. This is shown in the chart below:

If JPM is right, the implications are staggering: contrary to expectations that bitcoin's market cap is a rough reflection of its inflows, JPM's calculations reveal that a mere $6 billion in net inflows since 2009 has resulted in a market cap of $330 billion. This goes to what Mike Novogratz said last week when he said that cryptos are unique, because unlike all other asset classes, there is no corresponding increase in supply when prices surge.

This also means that as new capital flows into the crypto space as more retail and institutional investors scramble for "a piece of the pie", the potential market cap gains are unprecedented."

>>8817790
Here is an investopedia article on the ethics of shorting:
>https://www.investopedia.com/university/shortselling/shortselling4.asp
So basically everything the article says is unethical the whales could do to drive down a coin or crypto broadly so they can short it. Bear raids, short and distort, other probably more esoteric methods, whatever.

>>8818555
what are the columns on the side??

i know this is noob level but i started trading a few months ago and im not aware of that feature?

>>8818730
Volume Profile Visible Range. It shows the amount of BTC bought and sold at each price level within the time range of the chart. The blue/purple section represents 70% of the total volume during the chart time period.

>>8818274
it never even hit 20k

>>8818781
It did in Japan and Korea

>>8818693
>The difference is that as a retail investor you are woefully underequipped. At best you know some TA, but usually you rely on TA by Twitter superstars who get fed what to say by the whales to manipulate sentiment.
Agreed, hence it's best to buy and hold for the most part, but obviously take profits if something you hold experiences a huge jump in prices. I hold about 10 cryptos, and if one of them happens to jump in value much more than the others I hold (like LINK has done over the past few days for example) then I'll sell some of it and put the funds into one of my other long term holds. My NEO is pumping today, so tomorrow or the next day I'll take some profits from that and put it into WTC or XLM or one of my other holds that has underperformed over the past few weeks.

Rinse and repeat. As coins 'moon' I reallocate some of the profits to others that haven't mooned for a while. So whale games don't affect me. Taking big leveraged longs or shorts on an exchange is madness and playing into the hands of the Bart machine. For anyone who believes in the future of cypto, the best approach right now is buy, hold, and reallocate some profits when it makes sense to do so. If whales dump more coins and push prices down to 6K again I'll just buy more, because I believe the market cap is ultimately heading into multi trillions.

Don’t chuck a tantrum because the market won’t behave the way you think it should.

>>8818356>>8818705
So the implication here is only about 5% of the market cap is real money? the implications for token / coin value is staggering.

>Mike Novogratz
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-22/novogratz-shelves-hedge-fund-sees-bitcoin-dropping-to-8-000

Well this Mike guy did call the bubble bursting. Props for the info anon, its good to see some /biz/anons out there spreading knowledge rather than spreading FUD or simply shilling shitcoins.

(You should Trip, unironically)

>>8818818
Someone on biz with an actual plan and one they're sticking to?!

>>8818818
>If whales dump more coins and push prices down to 6K again I'll just buy more, because I believe the market cap is ultimately heading into multi trillions.

Literally my sentiment. I can't wait

>>8818118
Different fish

Some buy at those lower levels and panic at even lower levels

But yes, this has diminishing returns and at some point they need to pump to create new greed

>>8817790
its about keeping weak hands off for a period of time. they want people to feel like shit for buying bitcoin its easily achieved if done every time people get a bit of hope to destroy it again and again. it only lasts so long tho and eventually you run out of cash to be burning through the books.

they try and dump it further, posting semi-daily how each individual country’s banks aren’t allowing crypto purchases, India ban fud etc. but too much money on the sidelines and those who know what btc is worth / heading to, only investors left now

Have any of you guys read the story that inspired "Moby Dick?" It's truly fascinating. A fucking giant sperm whale rammed a whaling ship before radio were invented and sunk it. The crew then was left in their small auxiliary whaleboats for like over 100 days. They ending up casting lots for who they would eat. Out of 20, only 8 survived. I don't want to spoil it for you but something very interesting happens in the middle of it as well.

You can read the first mate's account:
http://mysite.du.edu/~ttyler/ploughboy/1821%20-%20Owen%20Chase%20-%20Essex%20Narrative.htm

>>8819338
also interesting side note is the first mate lived a long life and his wives kept dying and he went crazy and senile and started hoarding food, probably because of the trauma of having all his wives die and almost starving to death

>>8819285
>they try and dump it further, posting semi-daily how each individual country’s banks aren’t allowing crypto purchases, India ban fud etc. but too much money on the sidelines and those who know what btc is worth / heading to, only investors left now
Yes, I feel we're at the point where trying to push it down much further will be increasingly expensive and unproductive for the whales.

>>8818295
>>8818415
Yeah, I actually missed sub $6k. Was such a short period of time that I didn't realize it had gone that low until I saw people talking about retesting $5.8k in a thread a couple weeks ago, threw me for a loop at first until I looked at a chart and saw that we had in fact already gone that low earlier in the year.

>>8817790
>If you didn't sell on the way down from 20K to 5.8K then there's very little chance that you're going to start panicking at 4K or 3K.
Their goal is to force some people to liquidate their Bitcoin to pay for expenses like taxes. Many of the people selling now don't really have a choice.

>>8819746
>I feel we're at the point where trying to push it down much further will be increasingly expensive and unproductive for the whales.
>Literally my sentiment. I can't wait

This is what the whales play off of. People already have forgotten that we're only 10% from the recent bottom and can easily dump back there. They can easily pump it another $4-500, get some fomo whipped up and make the final push down to correspond with new FUD.

>>8817790
Whales need liquidity.
They can't buy/sell into thin order books and not massively move the price.
So they hunt margin traders.

e.g. if you want to buy, you have a bot that monitors open longs. Then, at anytime that the bot detects the bids in the order book is thinner than the longs that will be liquidated (basically, you will get a "long squeeze" bigger than what you need to dump), THEN you can safely dump AND be assured that the liquidated longs will refill your dumped coins at a lower price (and maybe even increase your holdings).

So as long as this opportunity exists, why wouldn't they take it? They increase their USD value, increase their BTC holdings, at the expense of the margin traders and hodlers.

If you want to blame anyone, blame the greedy margin traders who keep providing these no-brainer opportunities to whales.

the absolute state. All you need to do as a whale is kick off panic with a little bit of sales and let noobs do the rest as they capitulate, sell, and trigger stops on the way down too

>>8817790
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSb3Xt7V8i0

>>8819338
Wow spoilers dude

pushing down the price to like 2k-4k levels would be awesome for the whales.
they could incite fomo much more easily when they push it back to 6-8k, meaning probably easy 3x of their money

>>8817805
Nah people will start buying. If btc is below 6 then alts will be nearly fucking free.

>>8820684
It's still worth reading.. tbqh I didn't even fucking spoil it. The real substance is how the first mate described his feelings and shit and I never told you who it was they had to cast lots for which I was not really even in the book, but I can't tell you why lol.

>>8820684
just fuggin read it.. i read it pretty quickly and the first mate was a great writer who spent quite a while refining the story

>>8820806
Ye it's on my list so I'll get around to it. Pumping through Lolita and then Technological Slavery

This is what happens when you get complacent. I'm betting that OP is even a paid disinfo agent.

>>8818295
Well, I'm on my computer everyday for several hours and I missed the part from 7k to 6k to 7k, because I just wasn't at home for a few hours.
Once we break 6k, it's clear that BTC will fall to 4k or 3k, this is -50% from here. A big reason for hodlers to panic.

>>8820846
>Pumping through Lolita

>>8817790
No wonder you fags get rekt all the time

>>8817790
because smaller traders join them but always pay worse prices.

>>8820744

Fucking free? Alts are still overvalued by like 1000%. I bought ETH last year for $9. It's still at fucking $400 lol.

>>8818818
this is why the whales are taunting the hodlers, they fear the hodlers, no profit from strong hands

>>8822309
this
they cant strike fear into the hearts of the true believers

>>8821902
If you never panic sell then you never get rekt. It's easy.

>>8822381
so if you didn't "panic sell" at 17k you didn't get rekt ever since?

>>8822429
That's right. If you believe crypto is the future, and that we'll eventually hit a market cap in the multi trillions, then you haven't been rekt by holding.

>>8822447
Ok, fuck off reddit retard.

>>8822467
so you want more cheap bitcoin?
Means ultimately you want bitcoin
Why the heck should anybody sell you those bitcoin?

>>8822467
Wow, great comeback. You really put me in my place.

>>8822467
>sell at ATH
>buyback 1 month later at 6k
>triple your BTC stack

Guess that doesn't make sense for you. Rather be braindead endless holder.

>>8822604
In the end the hodler will make a ROI with lower risk. Imagine the whale group risking thousands of Bitcoin to kick off panic to just be eaten by another whale group having to buy back higher to even be able to play their game

>>8822658
nobody made a single fucking dime by holding if he bought anything in the last fucking 5 months

>>8822666
6 months be such long time
You very smart
you must be whale
you must be want moar cheap coin

JUST SELL THEN YOU PRICK

>>8822604
You seem angry anon. Try not to become so emotionally involved when debating others on the Internet. At the end of the day, it's just words on a screen.

Yes, if you sold at the peak and re-bought at the bottom you could triple your stack. You're simply stating the obvious. But that doesn't mean holders who are in it for the long term got rekt, because ultimately the last ATH will seem tiny when the new ATH is reached, and it's hard to time the peak. The proportion of people who times it perfectly by selling at the peak and buying back at the bottom would be very low. If you managed to do that anon, then congratulations, seriously.

>>8822658
I agree, these whales are going to get eaten buy soros & rockafella. They have way more knowledge and funds. No matter what, we will always have whales though. Nothing you can do about that! Just quit your bittchin. We will be out of this soon enough

>>8822710
>>8822732
Oh boy, this is so sad beyond belief.

I sold long ago with x30 profits from December, while you dimwitted reddit faggots kept holding, getting obliterated with -90% in most alts and -70% in BTC.

Meanwhile I am just anticipating my rebuy, but that concept is too hard to understand for you faggots. I literally did just 2 trades in 6 months: alts -> BTC -> FIAT. Now I lurk for opportunity and signals, not stressed out, especially when having taken profits.

You held. You got rekt. But yeah. NEVER SELL. ALWAYS HOLD UNTIL YOU DROP DEAD. Clearly not taking any profits is the better choice to not be stressed out.

>>8822733
No rocky or greg needed. With every dump, the amount of weak hands willing to dump lowers, all that rests are stop loss hunts, which become more expensive by the day

>>8822780
>sold long ago with x30 profits from December, while you dimwitted reddit faggots kept holding, getting obliterated with -90% in most alts and -70% in BTC.
>Meanwhile I am just anticipating my rebuy, but that concept is too hard to understand for you faggots.
It's an easy concept to understand, and congratulations if your story is true. But most others can't successfully time the peak and the bottom. I can't do it. If you're able to it reliably, then you're obviously a very good trader and very rich, so well done. For those of us who lack your skill and wealth, it's probably better to hold, for the most part.

By the way, what's Reddit got to do with this? You've mentioned Reddit twice now.

>>8822780
nice try

>>8822780
you seem to be the one stressed out anon
Personally I hold since $8, selling small amounts for goods sold in crypto and rebuying more crypto with my wage every month.
>ib4 wage slave
Nothing wrong with more sources of income to put into crypto. Do I need to work, theoretically no, but why let all the FIAT go to the mongs putting it back into the FIAT economy, and I enjoy the social environment of my job.

You don't realize in what phase we are it seem. Have fun fomoing

>>8822824
you never anticipate the peak or bottom. but at some point you take your profits if you are not a full retard.

BTC going to 19k and dropping to 17k, lack of momentum since then and never recovering to the ATH anymore after 100000% increase in literally everything on the market within a fucking year should have told ANYBODY at least around ~15k to sell off and wait.

>muh it will go up forever

I'm also not smart but I made my profits. Why? Because it fucking doesn't take more than IQ85 to see the drop coming (while it is still x8 from 1.5 years ago).

We're still bear market. Prices were around 1k for months on end and all of a sudden large influxes of money come into the market pumping it 2k, 4k 6k, 20k aggressively. I think we'll see 3-5k

>>8822849
>I bought at 8$, being a millionaire feeling the need to shitpost here and will buy more cryptos at 1000x the price I originally paid

K. I guess you can't even fathom how stupid you appear.

>>8822900
more reaction images
more ad hominems
How about you learn from the /pol/ shills, they are more skilled

>>8822876
We are not bear market since shit is not really going down anymore and it won't. But it will also not go up again anytime soon. There is not always bull or bear.

>>8818056
one word
accumulation

its really that simple

>>8822911
Btw, if I sell I need to pay taxes, and that's the last thing I'm willing to do

>>8822875
>you never anticipate the peak or bottom. but at some point you take your profits if you are not a full retard.
>BTC going to 19k and dropping to 17k
Those of us who are in this for the long term might decide to take some profits when BTC hits 100K or 500K or 1M, rather than at 17K or 10K or 5K or 1K (or any of the other price points where people took profits over the last few years). I'm sure there are many people who thought they were smart selling at the ATH of 1K.

Obviously for a gun trader like yourself, it's easy to identify the peak and bottom of every cycle, buying high and tripling your stack every year. But for normal people who can't time the market as successfully as you, it might be best to hold, and only take profits if they actually need the cash.

>>8822964
>loses -70%-90%
>at least he didn't pay those 5-30% taxes (depending on country), if even applicable since he claimed to have held since 8$
>not realizing it doesn't matter when you pay your fucking taxes if you cash out, it will always be the same % value
>still doesn't realize how everybody sees through his lies and stupidity because he is as dumb as an ant

Oh boy, you are really a very rare breed.

>>8822928
They accumulate by selling? How does that work? If they sell to push the price down, then when they start to accumulate they'll just push the price back up again. Zero sum game. It only works if they can induce others to panic sell, and that isn't working for them any more.

>>8822977
You are not one of the "normal people" if you don't think about (partially) cashing out something that did literally x100 in 2 years, peaking in an absolutely ridiculous 19k value. Then you are literally just bottom tier feeder with a severe case of brainletism.

Nobody even needs to have any experience or brain to come to that conclusion.

>>8823016
keep posting more reaction images and feel smart, you arrogant piece of shit

>>8823030
They dump, price drops 500$ because panic sellers. They slowly buy over the next hours without creating any spikes. They make massive buy orders to make retard panic sellers FOMO and pump price 500$ again. Repeat with slight variations.

Welcome to the Bartening.

>>8823040
I see, I am getting to you. Not even arrogant, just love to expose asshats who trick others into falling for the hodl meme in a bear market.

>>8823016
Why all the anger anon? The abuse and reaction images? It seems strange, for someone who claims to be sitting comfortably on 30X gains to react in such an emotional manner. It's almost as if your story isn't true, and that you perhaps panic-sold at 6K or something? If you're sitting calmly, waiting to buy back in and triple your stack, then why are you so easily triggered?

>>8823071
Again, go and observe the /pol/ shills, they have better shill methods. In 5 days I get my monthly wage and will buy more crypto. Believe it or don't, dump it more, so I can buy more bitcoin.

>>8823057
>They dump, price drops 500$ because panic sellers
Why would people panic sell now, when they didn't panic sell over the past four months in which BTC dropped from 20K to 5.8K? Anybody who was going to panic sell has had four months to do so. Hence the whales efforts are increasingly futile. They're simply depleting their own reserves of BTC at this stage.

>>8823030
There's more to accumulate from the panic selling.
They sell off a large stack, drives the price down, but more people join in on the sell off (they don't have to, but they do) and they buy more at the bottom.

>>8823141
>join in on the sell off
how about no

>>8822911
> bringing /pol/ into the argument, unironically and out of nowhere
You sound like an unstable human being

>>8823141
>There's more to accumulate from the panic selling.
Why would people panic sell now, when they didn't panic sell over the past four months in which BTC dropped from 20K to 5.8K? Anybody who was going to panic sell has had four months to do so. Hence the whales efforts are increasingly futile. They're simply depleting their own reserves of BTC at this stage.

>>8823157
Science baby
/pol/ is a great case study for the observation of individuals in asymmetric chaotic environments. /biz/ also, but /pol/ is better because more traffic

>>8823157
especially after repeatedly not realizing how embarrassing his larping comments are.

>>8823090
See above. I like exposing retards like you morons that trap others into buying and falling for hodl memes. You are just the average pajeet shils.

>>8823189
just when we think your comments can't get any dumber you keep posting, surprising everybody anew

>>8823167
Jesus fucking Christ m8
I don't know what the whales are up to lmao
I'm only helping to explain the logic of how someone with a large stack can accumulate more BTC by causing panic selling.
>>8823156
I've read a lot of your posts above. It's clear to me that you're at the very least mentally unhinged. Maybe even certifiably retarded. Possibly the worst reply I've ever received on biz..... ever.

>>8823198
You need to know, that currently this board is populated by two kinds of people, those who hang around here to shitpost and have fun and those who try to shill. The later group becomes increasingly weak, because they haven't changed their tactics a bit, let alone their script. Where with many new fags, Pink wojak threads got easily 100 replies in an hour by now they can be happy to get 10, which is tried to get countered by the shills by more threads, which also doesn't work, because obviously they have failed to conduct the appropriate demographic research. Again, go to /pol/ and learn how to shill effectively

>>8823167
You know, if they forcefully supress the price to 2k, they can much easier generate immense FOMO once they pump it to 4-6k levels again, making an easy 2-3x on their investment.

>>8823198
>I like exposing retards like you morons
It's good to do things you enjoy anon, but in this case your arguments are not very compelling. You'd actually do better if you tried to debate in a more adult manner, using logic rather than emotional outbursts and name-calling.

>>8820744
Alts are worthless and people are starting to realize that.

>>8823222
>I'm only helping to explain the logic of how someone with a large stack can accumulate more BTC by causing panic selling.
And your logic does make sense if BTC is at 20K. But it makes less sense now when BTC has fallen for four months to 6K, because most people who were going to panic sell have already done so.

>>8823256
Alright, Mr. "I Bought BTC at 8$ but spend my next salary (because I still need to wagecuck??) on the same asset for x800 the price, while doing 'Science Studies' on /pol, frequently refering to it.".

I have to say: amazing. Been lurking on 4chan for over 10 years now , but one does not witness someone THAT degenerate in every aspect very often. What an auspicious day for /biz.

>>8823302
I actually did argue in the beginning, stating that holding no matter what market situation and no matter what immense gains is just plain stupid. But if that doesn't get through to somebody, I guess there is no helping. Just suffering.

>>8823342
If you say so. should I link you to some papers about 4chan, are you interested in the research that is done on (you)

>>8823260
Not sure I agree with that. If it hits 2K then I doubt many people will fomo back in at 4K as they'll assume it's a dead cat bounce. I don't think we're going to see true fomo again until it gets close to previous ATH. Probably around 15-17K we'll see fomo, regardless of how low we go in the meantime.

>>8823378

Good thing I stacked up my brainlet folder recently.

>>8823378
There are seriously papers on 4chan?
You mean like Reddit blogs or pubmed?

>>8823396
The brainlet macro is effectively a defensive macro, not an offensive one. Do you feel threatened? Why? You seem to be in the better position

OK, almost time for bed in my country. If the thread is still open in the morning I'll continue the debate.

>>8823442
Goodnight bb xoxo

>>8823414
>You mean like Reddit blogs or pubmed?
Also sure. But the serious researchers are mostly anthropologists and media scientists, you find also those interested in computer security and many more. And yes according to 4chan those are meme sciences, but also according to 4chan those who control the memes control the planet, isn't it?

>>8823428
Wrong. It is mainly for the amusement of everybody else, since your severe case of Dunning-Kruger makes you unperceptive to reasoning and recognizing your stupidity anyway. Might as well get some fun out of it.

>>8823473
Link me.

>>8823479
Defensive answer. Kek
>>8823482
>Latent Networks: Ties, Structures, and Effects within an Anonymous Community
http://commons.emich.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1925&context=theses
>A Longitudinal Measurement Study of 4chan’s Politically Incorrect Forum and its Effect on the Web
http://www.voxpol.eu/wpfb-file/1610-03452-pdf/
>4chan and /b/: An Analysis of Anonymity and Ephemerality in a Large Online Community
http://projects.csail.mit.edu/chanthropology/4chan.pdf

Also here http://www.academia.edu/Documents/in/4chan

>>8817805

You fuckers are seriously retarded - not EVERYONE is daytrading. You notice how the whale dumps are utterly failing to move it any lower than around 6.5k? Long term holders aren't part of your memechart - there's no capitulation to be had. Not everyone is driven by emotion. You think miners, like fucking Bitmain are going to sell at a loss? Or big exchanges like Coinbase? Or any companies holding? Sure, kek.

I for example am going to 1 million or 0. That's it. I cashed my original stake out MANY times over (to the point where I'm very comfy) and I'm denying my holds to the (((Banks))) out of pure spite - IDGAF what the price today is. In fact, I'm accumulating more every dump. And there's a LOT of people like me out there. So all that "capitulation, despair" shit is just for you newfag daytraders that came in December and are scrambling to cover your shitty entry point. You think anyone on /biz/ buying Eth at less than $10 is going to "Capitulation" any time soon?

So I'd love to see 5800 - but I'm not holding my breath. So give it up - just short at 7100ish, then long at 6500ish. Repeat. That's the fucking market right now.

>>8823342

Redditor detected! /biz/ not /biz. Go back newfag.

>>8823643
Easy anon, the poor fool probably sold into the dump expecting to buy back cheaper and now is unsure if he took the right decision

>>8823615
>dips 20%
>just accumulate
>dips another 20%
>just buy the dip!
>drops another 10%
>I am still buying!
>drops another 15%
>more yummy BTC for me!
>drops another..

>>8821944

On what basis do you think it's overvalued? There's a TON of Dapps already - and price is set by supply and demand. It doesn't matter if it's mostly ponzis and gambling right now - that's all Eth getting bought and NOT traded with - it's demand. I've got a bunch of Eth in MakerDAO CDPS for example - that's supply never going back to an exchange. I like gambling too - so I buy Eth just for that. Demand fucker, demand.

>>8823683

Except that's not what the markets been doing. I stopped buying in October, cashed out a bunch at ATH.

Since you're obviously a moron who doesn't actually trade, let me help. Here's how it currently work: It dumps by 5 - 10% within a 15 minute span. It drifts slightly lower, ranges for a bit, there's a small bear trap, then it pumps by 5 - 10% within a 15 minute window. Rinse and repeat. So no, it's not dip, then more dip, then more dip. It's pretty much just alternating. I just sell each pump (minus the range of the pump, ie 5-10% of what I bought) so I'm steadily accumulating sats while my dollars are unchanged. Those sats go to cold storage to be held for then next bull market.

Is that simple enough for you fucktard?

>>8823665

In that case he's at least learned the true /biz/ method correctly - sell low, buy high.

>>8823833
Checked
Everybody has to learn it the hard way.
Panic sold a looooooot at $4 after the dump from $30, when I bought in at $10 expecting it to die. Never again

>>8823833
>>8823893

>>8823924
your defensiveness knows no limits, doesn't it?
Also you might look into what function uncreative spam follows. DyR

>>8824072

>>8824289