/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>8779826
>paying taxes on imaginary money without actually cashing out to fiat

>>8779826
>could just hold 3-6 months and recover entire portfolio
and you say this based on...?

I don't know why everyone is freaking out about this. Taxes are a normal part of doing business and a normal part of trading.

Crypto-crypto trades trigger capital gains, just like when you move your money from one stock to another.

I would never put money into crypto, but if you are the type who would, you can pay your taxes and STILL make money.

You just have to keep decent records and don't be stupid.

Track all your gains and losses, use the long form so you can itemize, pay cap gains on your wins but also deduct your losses.

Normies leaving crypto. We must be near the bottom.

>>8780018
The problem is that many people have taxable events in 2017 for amounts that are 5x their current portfolio value, and they didn't actually cash out, so now, in theory, they have to liquidate to cover that tax burden, and they can only write the capital loss off in the future (which I believe has a deduction limit of 3K per year anyway...)

but the twitter guy is retarded for even reporting himself frankly

>>8779998

Market cycles, do you really think the crypto market cap will never reach one trillion?

Do you really think that this is the end of an entirely new asset class?

Do you really there will never be another bullrun, even it takes a year or two?

use your head, senpai

>>8779826
Stupid fucking yanks.

>>8780048
>a year or two?
f-fuck

>>8779826
If he had held from the beginning he wouldn't have owed any tax at all. Traders BTFO once again.

this shit is not done dumping especially with Soros now in this shit, he is gonna short BTC back to 1k and u will fucking capitulate

at least he got out with profit

If he actually HODL'ed than he shouldn't have to pay any taxes.

But BTC and HODL. When did he make any capital gains if he never sold?

>>8780045

Then I guess they've learned a good lesson. Most traders start making up their minds in december which losers they will sell to offset all their gains.

>>8779946
This, there are retards who really think the irs is going to hunt down their account on some chinese exchange and add up every single one of thekr trades

>>8780074
Why is there carry forward but no carry back on losses? Why is the amount decided at an arbitrary date?

The whole system seems arbitrary and overly complicated.

>>8780110

Every rule is in place to avoid a known way of scamming the system.

I hate paying taxes as much as the next guy, but the system isn't all that bad; especially compared with european countries.

>>8780066

Because if you trade on Bittrex or coinbase, you can get flagged by the IRS.

My friend was trading 100's of btc a day in and out of coinbase during the BCH pamp, and he was one of 13k ppl flagged by the irs.

He now owes 500k in taxes but since he took his gains from btc and bought the top on alts, he only has 200k in capital liquid. He is truly fucked.

>>8780101
Yes, just trade without KYC on overseas exchanges and dont cash out or send to a bank, and youre unironically fine.

>>8780101
most of /biz/ believes that. The IRS wont complain when they get a decent check in the mail

>IRS face when get rich off retard /biz/ fud

>>8780066
Because he traded. Crypto to crypto is taxable as well.

>>8780189
but only if you realize gains

>>8780018
Wrong. Cryptos are misclassified. When you have the situation that someone owes more in tax than they made then the system is obviously malfunctioning.

Americans are the ultimate brainlets.

Crypto to crypto is not a taxable event it only is if you cash out. And you could argue that even usdt is crypto. Also, dont trade in american exchanges

>>8780241

How are they misclassified? (other than people thinking they are).

And the case we are talking about isn't someone owing more taxes than they made.

Think about it.. I buy a stock for $10. I sell it later for $1000 and put it all into another stock that goes broke.

Did I not make a $900 profit on the first trade? Does dumping all my money into a loser later mean that I made any less on the first trade?

Yes, people are getting caught when their gains and losses are happening in different years, but crypto trades are being treated like any other legitimate trade is.

>>8780241
No. He should've put aside some fiat to cover taxes after he made the (taxable) trade. It's his own problem if he gambles away that money.

>>8780343
>>8780339
>>8780241
>>8780189

/biz/ always breaks down into these stupid fucking conversations, makes my fucking head hurt. aren't you brainlets tired of going back and forth? like leave your fucking house holy shit

Only pay taxes if you cash out, the irs doesnt give a fuck about your 3 btc profit you made you man children

>>8780189
I know that so obviously he didn't HODL. Even if he bought BTC then bought alts right away after and then HODL'ed he woudln't owe any taxes since the BTC to alt trade would probably be a loss after fees.

>>8780550

youre wrong. refer to my post:

>>8780181

>>8780372
a lot of people genuinely don't understand this

>>8779826
glad i got jesus hint and sold everything and broke roughly even. the only thing HODL retards are holding will be a lasting pain in the ass

>>8780581
Yes i understand that.

What I'm saying is if you just buy BTC once and then buy a bunch of alts right after then you shouldn't owe any taxes since the price of the BTC when you sell should be about the same or less due to fees. Then you just HODL the alts until you want to cash out.

This dumb fuck bag holder deserves all the shit he gets.

Why the fuck would you waste a year doing TA in a highly price manipulated cryptocurrency market?

Trends matter jack shit in cryptocurrency markets.

>>8780598
True. Fucking madness.

who here just /notpaying/ ? irs niggers will have to come kill me personally before they get a single cent lmao

>>8780052
2-2.5 years till we hit ATH again
source: the occult

>>8780181
Why would ould you trade or cash out on CB or bittrex. Just use binance or idex for trades and cex/bitfinex to cash out

Bag holding Lain (BHL) kept making bad trades as he got deeper in losses.

BHL listened to all the shills and blames THEM for HIS bad trading decisions.

FYI this is around the third time BHL has made a drama post about quitting cryptocurrency trading XDDDD

Yet another thread on disgusting US tax laws.

Feels fucking good not being part of le 56% and not having to worry about crypto taxes at all unless I'm seriously making it - and then knowing that because (unlike US citizens) I'm not the property of my government if I want to pay lower tax or none at all I can just go for an extended holiday abroad for 6 months+1 day of the financial year.

Why can't you just pay taxes like normal countries? You know, when you actually turn your meme coins into real money.

The absolute state of America. Everyone except the exceedingly rich getting fucked by 3 letter organizations. 40+ % capital gains tax if holding less than 1 year.. what kind of fucking autism is that.

>>8780742
Some people just arent cut out for it

>>8780048
>year or two?
Brilliant, make sure to just write IOU: Bull run soon on your tax returns and tell me how that works out

>>8780018
>just like when you move your money from one stock to another

The difference is that when you want another stock you have to sell the one you hold into fiat and then buy the other stock. Crypto to crypto trades dont involve fiat.

>earn 10 BTC from altcoins
>10 BTC for 12k
>short on BitMEX at 1x leverage
>exit 1/2 position at 6k
>move the original 10 BTC to GDAX
>sell to realize capital losses
Does that allow me to cut capital gains in half for that year since I haven't realized capital gains on the other 1/2 of my position yet?

>>8780738
How would a burger be able to cashout on CEX or bitfinex??

>>8780763
That's called tax evasion.

$DMT price:
- Mar 27, 2018: $1.46 (Coinmarketcap close price)
- Apr 6, 2018: $0.38 (current coin market price)

In fairness, $DMT did change Bag Holding Lain's "cryptoview". He's fucking off with his losses :D

I'm done laughing at the beaten man.

>>8780768
How do normal countries handle capital gains taxes?

In the US it is like this:

Buy $100 of asset 1
Asset 1 appreciates to $1000
Sell all asset 1 for asset 2 (this creates $900 of capital gains)
Asset 2 is a shitty scam and goes -95%.
Sell asset 2 (this creates $950 of losses)

Assuming both transactions were on the same tax year, the person has a net loss of $50 and can claim that for a refund.

If the transactions were different tax years, then on year 1 the person owes taxes on $900 gains and then on year 2 can claim $950 losses.

>>8779826
>Lain
>Pays taxes
Fucking larpers I swear
at least copy some of the ethos of the character you're larping as
hope this nerd gets soul shattered

This whole taxing your every trade is some retarded ass shit you burgers are going through literal communism. Why don't they just tax your capital gains you earn after you make the final withdrawal. So they tax 15 percent of it and get it over with instead of taxing every fucking trade for some reason

>>8780850
Lol no, it's 100% legal in EU. Get fucked goblinomutt.

>>8780929
Sources? I live in the EU as well and I'm pretty sure that's illegal.

>>8780241
the system is fine, all these retards fell for the "crypto to crypto trades aren't taxable" meme and they didn't cash out a single dime to pay their taxes because they are retarded.

>>8780830
Bartering is still taxable
https://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc420

>>8780018
wrong tax cuck
You cannot full us and our fake meme money destined to make us poor
Not cashing out, so no tax for me
And when i do cash out.... kek i'm pulling out my initial investment so i made nothing :)
No gains for me, i don't owe anything correct?

>>8780971
>The Tax system is fine
That alone makes you a retard.

>>8780206
He realized gains in 2017, and lost them in 2018.

>>8780929
I live in the EU as well and I'm pretty sure it's illegal.

there doesnt exist a single person worth listening to with "crypto" in their name

>>8780241
We comin fo dat ass
>wrong!
Lmao

>mfw they literally tax lemonade stands in America

>>8780908

This seems like an unnecessary amount of steps. In the UK you literally just cash out and if you cash out more than $16k you declare your capital gains and pay 20% on any amount.

I've read about some people using those crypto gambling sites and setting their win % really high, to basically receive their money back with minimal chance of loss. Then you pay literally nothing, since gambling is tax free here. Although you could potentially get investigated and they'll decide whether you pay nothing or worst case scenario, they make you pay 20% capital gains.

>>8780963
>>8781009
>what is tax residence

>>8780929
yuropoor here, completely illegal in my country. if you don't sever your ties with your home country, the local IRS will chase you down the moment you come back

>>8781081
You simply cannot move abroad for one year just for the purpose of avoiding capital gains tax. Feel free to try it and enjoy your taxes and jail time after you come back.

>>8781061
haha this is actually pretty clever. if you just dca the gambling on satoshi dice you will only lose 2%.

>>8781081
You simply cannot move abroad for one year just for the purpose of avoiding capital gains tax. Feel free to try it and enjoy your taxes and jail time after you come back. Unfortunately it isn't that easy.

>>8780997
It's retarded and fucked.
>Capital gains tax goes infinitely upward
>You can only claim 3K in losses each year instead of infinitely downward

Anyone who defends this is a cuck.

>>8780045
>they have to cash out and pay taxes, so they can pay taxes

pretty sure thats illegal

Bong still within capital gains allowance here

>mfw going to various crypto news sites to check what communism Vitalik is up to and get the wall of IRS FUD instead on every single one

>realizes his gains
>OWO YOU MEAN I HAVE TO PAY TAXES ON PROFITS?????????????????????????

>>8780048
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
Crypto is a dead meme.

>>8779826
This is pure larpy FUD. Pay it no mind.

I'm really struggling to pay my crypto tax, oh wait, it's 0%.

>>8780045
Lol when my crypto-tax specialist accountant told me how much I owe he was like.

>Yeah.. so it looks like you owe about $101,000 federal and $15,000 state for 2017... ahhhmm.... i-if you don't have the cash on hand to pay it right we're reaching out to the IRS to put a lot of our clients on a payment plan so you can pay over and extended period of time....

I luckily cashed out early with enough to cover taxes plus a lot of profit so I'm good but from the tone of his voice it seems like almost all of his clients are fucked and owe more than they have. It sounded like he was waiting for me to freak out. lmao

>>8780018
>Crypto-crypto trades trigger capital gains

Not a common sense notion, frankly.

If I sell amazon and buy apple stock I understand the fiat conversion because there is a security to fiat trade, but in crypto, there is no such conversion.

It is only because of accounting methods (not made explicit until September of 2017) that "create" gains and losses.

Its obvious there were no bad-faith intentions to hide capital gains or acquired wealth. Just an understanding based on common sense in the absence of substantive and explicit guidance.

These people are victims of unjust and unfair taxation which will result in wrecked financial prospects for people who would otherwise be building wealth and eventually, paying taxes on fiat invested and spent in local economies.

Instead, the government is essentially stealing someone's wealth, and creating public debtors. This robs the community and destroys public trust.

But since these are minority cases, in an economic arena which is viewed with little sympathy by the public, no one is going to care. Its another example of the system destroying people financially. People ITT are perfect examples of this.

Ultimately this model will be used to effectively kill crypto without explicitly banning it or making it illegal, around the world.

Crypto people are a tiny, tiny minority of the world economic picture and by divide and conquer they will destroy it. We have no voice, no advocacy, no one to argue our position, and that is why I am out of crypto, after paying these ridiculous taxes. Too many assholes, not enough revolutionaries. The big money and government aren't going to allow it and we are not united.

Crypto is fucking dead. It will bleed out forever and flatline, Co-opted by governments and corporations.

You guys might as well start researching which companies are going to profit from blockchain tech. The list will start with banks, financial firms, tech, and so on...

>>8780181
You don't even have any friend, quit lying.

>>8781397
Well spoken.

Are tumblers just not a viable option to annominimity?

>>8780101
cuck mentality

>>8780923
because they are retarded and didn't think it through
It will back fire on them now, don't play no fuck ass games with crypto cucks
We will rebel

>>8780048
Denial

>>8781392
>h-heh still made alot of profit
sure you did, you fell for the cuckery
And all your hard work you simply gave up to the Jews

Do Americans really have to pay taxes everytime they switch from crypto to crypto, not just when you switch from crypto to fiat?

>>8781381
>I'm really struggling to pay my crypto tax, oh wait, it's 0%.

I envy you but the writing is on the wall. Nations signed on to multilateral trade and banking agreements ultimately all adopt similarly compatible financial methods. It might come sooner or later. Crypto has always been a threat to the established order and countries which don't follow the conventions under these closed-door agreements will be squeezed out.

To prevent that widespread economic damage, they'll adopt similar provisions under the rubric of enforcement of financial crimes and anti-money laundering.

The difference between the taxation and monitoring of the very small minority of citizens who trade crypto and the large negative effects of economic sanctions predict very high probability that these laws will be put in place eventually, probably sooner than later.

Its not speculation. Governments have been hinting toward this all last year. If you want to bet against that, consider yourself warned.

>american """""""dream"""""""'

>>8781397
>It is only because of accounting methods (not made explicit until September of 2017)

It was made explicit in 2014 that taxation of crypto currencies would NOT be only upon "cash out", but for every transaction with a "fair market value".

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-drop/n-14-21.pdf
>For federal tax purposes, virtual currency is treated as property. General tax principles applicable to property transactions apply to transactions using virtual currency.

>For U.S. tax purposes, transactions using virtual currency must be reported in U.S. dollars. Therefore, taxpayers will be required to determine the fair market value of virtual currency in U.S. dollars as of the date of payment or receipt. If a virtual currency is listed on an exchange and the exchange rate is established by market supply and demand, the fair market value of the virtual currency is determined by converting the virtual currency into U.S. dollars (or into another real currency which in turn can be converted into U.S. dollars) at the exchange rate, in a reasonable manner that is consistently applied.

>If the fair market value of property received in exchange for virtual currency exceeds the taxpayer’s adjusted basis of the virtual currency, the taxpayer has taxable gain. The taxpayer has a loss if the fair market value of the property received is less than the adjusted basis of the virtual currency.

1031 Like-kind for crypto was always on shaky ground and people should have been prepared for it to be rejected.

>>8779826

I thought the gist of the last thread about this was to not report your crypto trades and to only pay tax on what you cash out as if it were income tax? Did Lain not get the wire?

>mfw someone owes the IRS more money than their entire net worth from trading imaginary neet tokens with no uses

>>8781533
I actually did. I still have high 6 figures. And I didn't work hard at all at this crypto thing, like you pink wojakers, I just bought early and sold when the bubble seemed like it was popping.

>>8781541
It's definitely coming, but what type of person would I be if I didn't gloat in the meantime.

>>8781290
>Gains realized on paper
>End of the tax year happens
Market crashes
>Sorry goy you owe us
>Capital loss? No goy that is capped by year to 3K it doesn't matter if you lost 1 Million this year you owe us for technically having it last year
>It you make a gain it's ours if you take a loss it's yours
>What is the problem goy?
They are literally creating debt slaves with this shit.

>>8779826
that’s why you hold

what a poor retarded faggot

>>8781061
Worst case is 10%, 20%cgt is for main residence property sale only

Feels good to be bong :-D

>>8779826
Unless the exchanges send you and the irs a 1099, how the fuck would they any one know?

Had no problem paying my taxes because I planned ahead and made sure I cashed out 30% of my profits, only idiots fell for the like kind meme

>>8780049
>land of the free

>>8779826
>Lain poster
lol

>>8781539
Yes

>>8781626
Lucky fucker
>me
>get in late
>Constantly making trades daily pulling shit tier profits
>up a couple grand at one point from my 1k investment
>still trading to keep afloat while bubble popped
>now down like 30%
FUCK

>>8780018
>taxes on unrealized gains
Not in my country and it's way more socialist than USA. I guess chasing the American dream is easier here

>>8781228
Really?
I think is actually is

>>8781889
We only have taxes on realized gains, we just count barter exchanges of property as still resulting in a realized gain.

>>8780598
Here's something even more brainlet:
https://www.coindesk.com/everything-afraid-ask-crypto-taxes/
>What are tax consequences of mining bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies?

>When a taxpayer successfully mines virtual currency, the fair market value of the virtual currency generated as of the date of receipt is includable in gross income.

When the fuck has anyone ever paid taxes on something they produced without actually fucking selling it? Maybe I should start paying the IRS taxes on every vegetable I grow in my garden based on the current market value of said vegetable on the day it was picked.

>>8779826
>normies paying taxes on trades they haven't cashed out yet
THE ABSOLUTE KEK

>>8781998
>When the fuck has anyone ever paid taxes on something they produced without actually fucking selling it? Maybe I should start paying the IRS taxes on every vegetable I grow in my garden based on the current market value of said vegetable on the day it was picked.
You're supposed to.

>>8781808
I'm sorry son, I experienced that in the 2013-2014 trading the pump and dump shitcoins of the day like TRC, PPC, NMC, NVC, DOGE, FTC, on btc-e.com then lost my shit on the crash. Then in 2016 I had a strong feeling it was going to happen again so I went back in with bigger money and didn't try to chase shitcoin pumps around this time, just kept my eye on the macro stages of the bubble. Even I fell for the pure euphoria again when it got to 18k-19k and didn't cash out at the very top but afterwords I realized what was happening and didn't hodl all the way to the bottom.

>>8781330
wow you said yes 3 times and then said it was dead. thanks, sold 100k.

>>8780923
because if you tax every single trade no no matter how big, you fuck over everyone wanting to use it to buy coffee (or whatever the fuck).
they did it on purpose to fuck over adoption

>>8781397
>Too many assholes, not enough revolutionaries.
and with you leaving the scene, we're down another good one. why are you abandoning us, anon?
revolutionaries are out there. the revolution will not be televised. stop thinking it will be.

>>8781392

This is exactly why I don't file, I kept shoddy records and gambled so much monopoly money away, what am I supposed to do, turn myself in and become a wage slave to the IRS the rest of my life? And in the end I actually didn't send a single dime of fiat to my bank account or buy anything with crypto online.

>>8782105
I learned alot during this crash
I'm not a TAfag and quite good at it even though the market is manipulated to hell
If we ever get another bubble... i'm taking profits on the way

>>8782240
>And in the end I actually didn't send a single dime of fiat to my bank account or buy anything with crypto online.
Then you have no reason to file.

Hell nobody has a reason to file unless they cashed out like 10k in fiat on an exchange with their name and bank account connected to it. Ie normies.

>live in Switzerland
>don't have to care about taxation since there is none for Crypto
Feels good not being a cuck while pumping 1k every month of my income into this ponzie to get rich quick.

Well, the account is deleted. Time to come say goodbye to /biz/. So long, /biz/. Don't fall for the HODL meme and stop buying pajeet coins shilled on here.

Love,

Lain

>>8780181

>just dont cash out or send to a bank

crypto is truly fucked

>>8782533
I will miss you. Take care Lain.

I don't get how a country with legal firearms can have such ridiculous assraping tax laws.

>>8782533
Don't report you fucking retard.

>>8782488
>live in Switzerland
>Feels good not being a cuck
anon...

>>8782635
>inb4 multiculturism
ok

>>8782533
F

You were a cool dude. Hope the best for you man.

>>8780370
but the problem is, if you trade crypto to crypto, WHERE are those USD coming from then?

YEs, you need to SELL EVEN MORE crypto, to cover the cash. this in itself then is a taxable event.

This is what people complain about... if you sell stocks you do USD/stock only

>>8781889
The tax system is judeafied as fuck here. I have a friend who didn't report all of her tips to the irs and she got all her account cleaned out and a lien on future pay. She underreported by quite a lot but it goes to show you do not get in between the jew and his shekels

>>8781245
Brainlet

>>8782533
............

>>8780018
LOL. You can bang your head against the wall of stupid, but the NEETs here don't want to hear any of that. They thought they could buy MuhCoins and never have to deal with the real world, and keep all their Preciousssss gains and not pay taxes, which is why the butthurt in tax threads is so delicious.
Any investor who's baseline competent looks into the tax and record keeping requirements before they jump in, or soon after. It's common fucking sense. Only an idiot or a lazy 4chan NEET would think there would be no tax implications, especially if they're in the US. Only this level of retard would keep no records. And only this level of retard would throw tantrums and try to become money launderers and try to outwit the IRS when they find out they owe. Lots of tough talk is found, and all of them will cry like the little bitches they are when they get that registered letter from the IRS. It might take two years, but they're coming.
Only complete idiots and fools think the crypto market will rebound to 2017 Q4 levels, and it's pure desperation, and just stalling the inevitable - you gotta pay your taxes. You might have to get a job, to pay them. And nobody has an ounce of sympathy for you.

>>8782594
I'm not going to. I just wanted a good reason for why I was leaving, so posted that. I'm still selling without a ton of profit though from my October re-entry, though.

I'm mostly leaving just because I want out of this crypto game. Prior to crypto, I had a pretty well balance life, played the piano, had friends, traveled a lot. But crypto is too consuming. I've tried to trade in a non-obsessive manner, but I can't seem to do it ([autism intensifies]). Its too much like gambling for me and too self destructive. I no loner feel its worth the money and instead is holding me back in everything else.

So I'm out, selling now to offset a lot of my profits from 2017 EoY, in case I do get audited down the line when exchanges get forced into regulation, etc., so I won't have to worry about huge back taxes then. The money was always a goal, but mostly it was the winning and freedom I was after. Recently, though, after taking a step away for a bit, I realized that in the quest for winning, I'd destroyed everything else I care about, so I'm just out.

>>8780101
IRS doesn't have to do that, dummy. If you cash out, it's on you to document your trades, and if you can't, the IRS will dry fuck you and not give you a pillow to bite.

This "The IRS can't find muh trades" is nonsense. It doesn't fucking matter, because it's YOUR job to track your trades, and show the work when you cash out and owe taxes.
It's the same fucking rules they have for stock trades, and it works just fine, retard.

>>8782546

>He doesn't have a bank account in Switzerland
Never gonna make it

>>8782725
>the absolute state of coinfags

i tried to warn you.

>>8782725
PATo is looking for your telegram.

>>8782060
are you this stupid ? If I am an artist that sell paintings for 1000$ each, and I then produce 5 paintings i DONT sell. of course i will not pay taxes on the last 5.........

>>8782725

Enjoy wageslaving till you're old and ready to die, faggot.

>>8782721
*breathes in*
oh no the gobament is coming for me
Stay paranoid, and stay pussy
I do have a job, and am already taxed
Heres an idea, i'm not cashing out. = No taxes

the market will recover, at least by a little. I can then pull my initial investment out into my bank account.
>no gains made as far as anyone is concerned
I then leave my profits to ride in the market on chink exchange

Maybe years later i pull that money out slowly... GG

>>8782721
>Only complete idiots and fools think the crypto market will rebound to 2014 Q1 levels
You, two years ago.
>>8782725
That's understandable then, I'm also fairly obsessive with trading but that's my personality type. Before crypto it was politics, if I quit crypto it'd just be something else, at least with crypto I'm making money.

Also, I'm not doing this, and just leaving instead, for sake of my mind, but for anyone worried about future taxes, consider the following:

1) All crypto traced to you could be anonymized by selling it to Monero, then moving it to new exchange never used by your prior. Make sure to use a VPN when accessing the new exchange account, preferably through a router VPN tunneled through another VPN configured on your laptop, in case one of the connections drops, and preferably using DNSCrypt to block DNS leaks.

2) Binance allows withdrawls of up to 2 BTC per day with no KYC (use exchange only encrypted email such as Protonmail to register)

3) Localbitcoin and Bitcoin ATMs let you sell for cash without KYC

Love,

Lain

>>8782816
Art doesn't have a readily determinable FMV if its never been appraised or sold so that's a different situation entirely.
>are you stupid?
No, our tax law is.

>>8782868
Maybe people will finally listen to these things because you're a namefag.

Reminder that most major cities have 10-30 bitcoin atms in them already, with multiple companies. Meaning multiple withdrawals a day.

>>8782725

So you hired a "tax guy" just to ignore his professional advice?

Got nothing against you, I like you. I lurked your Twitter cause you're funny.

Just a tip moving forward, a healthy dose of skepticism helps.

Nobody, especially in cryptocurrency trading, is out there to help others make money. They only shill the bags they're already holding and you shouldn't trust publicized trades.

You'd be silently accumulating more undervalued tokens as much as possible, not shill them.

You made so many poor decisions from holding too long and fomoing into shitcoins.

It's better to arrive late to the party and leave early (with realized gains).

>>8781703
Because, without a 1099, it's on you to record your trades, and file them with your taxes. He obviously cashed out some or most of his gains, and he now has to document his trades, and they computed taxes on them.

I can't believe this still has to be explained. It's a very simple concept. You can't just go to the IRS and say "I got 100K, and I can't say where I got it." They need to know, so they know how to tax it. If it's an inheritence, and you can prove it, no taxes. From employment, then income tax and other deductions, like SS. Investments, then capital gains apply.
Don't reeeeeee at me about how bad it is. Them's the laws, and while I agree that the US tax system needs to be tossed, the scumbags in Washington are in no rush to do anything, so keep that in mind if you're a US citizen, the next time you vote.
Until the tax laws/system are changed, this is how it works, and if you're a US citizen, it's what you gotta do.

>>8780018
>I don't know why everyone is freaking out about this
Because they're fucking rank amateurs that have never traded or invested a day in their lives.

>>8782827
Spoilers: Lain is also a full-silver human statue and robot. I make $32 to $43 an hour on average doing this, entertaining rich tourists along one of the countries biggest shopping strips in a major US city. The money is obviously under the table and I can work on my own hours, as much or as little as I want.

When I get bored with the tin life, I fall back on my IT experience and degree. At my last IT job as a NOC administrator I was making $95k/year, plus bonuses. Usually I don't stick around at these jobs for more than 8 months though, after which the wage slavery gets too rough and I leave.

>>8782916
You're such a bootlicking faggot that the concept of never having money sent to a bank account doesn't even occur to you.

>>8781496
catapultation

>>8782833
>Heres an idea, i'm not cashing out. = No taxes
That was my fucking point, you fucking spastic neckbeard. The IRS doesn't give a fuck until you cash out. Jesus christ, how fucking weak is your bitch ass ego that you felt compelled to PROVE what I was saying, but try to make it look like you were saying something original?

Go fuck your fedora, you filthy little assfuck.

>>8782875
ok, so If i produce let's say 50 pizzas I don't sell, I need to pay tax on them? Fuck no. Or cars, or software or whatever. No only profits are taxed

>>8782941
Aw, are you upset? Boo hoo.

>>8783000
Why would I be upset about you being an idiot?

>>8782994
Pizzas aren't assets.

I can't believe...no, it's 4chan. Of course it has to be explained.

>>8782941
Again, look into Bitcoin ATMs. Where I'm at, you can withdraw up to $700 a day with no ID, but you need a cell phone number before your first withdrawl.

Easy fix, get a $20 flip phone burner phone, 10 sim cards from Walmart for 99 cents each, put 25 prepaid minutes on each of them, and presto, you can now withdraw $7,000 per day from a single ATM with no link to you, except throwaway prepaid sim cards in a throwaway phone.

>>8782994
If you win a car in a game show, you owe taxes on the dollar value of it.

>>8783013
so vegetables like in the example are assets? riiiiiight

>>8783026
Exactly, its like the concept of cashing out into CASH through ATMs or localbitcoins and slowly spending it over years doesn't even occur to him.

>>8779826
>paying taxes on crypto

holy fucking shit, how retarded can people be? either your make it with crypto, or you don't. if you manage to make like a million dollars of crypto there's tons of options to avoid getting absolutely cucked out of your gains, like moving to a tax haven.
you don't want to own these fucks a zero dime in case you DON'T make it, because you'll be absolutely fucked.

>>8783026
>>8783046
Make sure you wear a mask if those things have cameras

>Yeah that's him. That's the guy who thinks crypto to crypto trades aren't taxable.

>We raid tonight at 3am, no knocking, weapons free.

>>8783026

I fucking know you're going to be back trading cryptocurrencies so I'll leave you with a valuable advice from George Carlin.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rh6qqsmxNs

Take advantage of the stupid people. There's a whole lot of them in cryptocurrency markets. Don't be one them!

You did it wrong Lain! ;(

>>8782936
Everything about you is a larp
What kind of person leaves a 95k job to be a street performer, then gets into crypto and ragequits

I think you are lying

>>8783058
I'd use localbitcoins instead of an ATM, I'm in one of the few states that's came out and said that you don't need any sort of money transmitter license to sell crypto though.

>>8783070
That was something I never wanted to do on my Twitter. Twitter was always full of shills. Shills that would shill their bags for months in bear markets. Shills that would tell you the dip was over when they really had no idea. Shills who would use their names to dump on their followers whose portfolios would then be destroyed.

I came from /biz/ and first entered crypto last spring. The way I saw it, we won or lost together. The only feels I wanted people to know were winning, and so I only posted charts I truly believed in and never dumped on people. I didn't try to force a bull market to rally fake support or anything like that. Crypto may not have ended the way I planned, but at least I can leave behind a few memories for Anon.

>>8783072
if the job pays well but is stressful wagecuckery i dont find it too unreasonable to want to leave it. I had some decent paying work but it was soul draining while easier less paying stuff in the long run would keep me sane and away from hanging up the noose

>>8783123
You had the right mindset, trying to fuck over people in a crab bucket mentality would just leave you feeling awful about it later.

>>8783068
>what boomers in this thread think
In reality most of us are NEETS playing with a couple hundred to a couple grand
It is not worth their fucking time to even think of us
>I have 5000 trades mostly all alt trades in decimals
Kek don't understand how anyone expects me to go through those and calculate it
Oh yea... they don't

pay your taxes faggots.

>>8783149
I meant it more like who is smart enough to be in such a well paying IT position but fuck up crypto trading this badly. I know I'm being harsh. I liked lain I followed him on Twitter, this shit is just disappointing

>>8783123
who so I follow now on twitter if im to retarded to make charts lain reeeee

>>8783070
Whoa, this is much cringier than I remember.

>>8783208
>I meant it more like who is smart enough to be in such a well paying IT position but fuck up crypto trading this badly.
He still is up several times over his investment just like most of us.

>>8782725
>refuses to evolve to the new market
this isn't spring 2017, shit done change
I have 100+ lain reaction pics but none of them can convey this much disappointment.

>>8783190
>I have 5000 trades
They're gonna fucking execute you

>>8783208
>i'm smart enough to be in such a well paying IT and yet i lose my money playing roulette :(

Lain I need your autism through this journey, don't quit.

>>8783072
No larp. I just hate office culture. Again, money is not that important to me. As long as I have enough to do the things I like doing, which is very little considering how little expenses I have, I'm happy. I'd rather live a diverse life where I can do both the tinman and IT jobs, trade crypto, then go live in the woods for awhile, etc., than stick myself to any one thing.

This is why I'm not too sad about leaving crypto without my lambos. Even though I didn't make the money, I get my life back instead.

>>8783214
The reality is that there is no one to follow. Most of the big name twitterfags are liars, cheaters and crooks and very few even know what they're posting, if they actually are posting their own charts (and not stealing it from other people). You are on your own and so am I. I still believe there is a way to make it in this game but it involves cutting out all of the noise and going out there all alone to figure it out.

>>8783402
and one of the NOC office...look at all that natural light...Wonder why I don't work these jobs long...

>>8783214
Sorry Anon
Crypto

>>8783410
>>8783426
then where can i learn to make and read charts without reading books im to adhd for that i know how to read candles but thats about it

>>8782111
T H I S
H
I
S

they won't right out ban it but they will make it nearly impossible to cash out.
Poland and India are clear indicators on what's coming

>>8783499
yeah, poland and india are like the apex of our society. the rest of the world quivers as they reign supreme.

>>8783123

Yeah I'm not advocating you to become a Twitter shill. Fuck that.

I shilled 0 coins but I got out in Jan with profits. I never BS myself it's an "investment". It's gambling pure and simple. Someone else on the table's got to bear the losses and anyone else telling you different is full of shit.

That bag holder had time to weigh his decision so I'm not having the sympathy bullshit.

- Create account on fiat offramp exchange
- Buy major cryptocurrencies offered in fiat offramps
- Create exchange account(s) to buy & trade altcoins
- Transfer cryptocurrencies between exchanges (this took some time during 2017 peak).

There's plenty of time between those steps for self-assessment.

I don't delude myself as a cryptocurrency trading genius, I'm pretty much out of the game. I was always mindful there being people or groups who are smarter with a lot more money and insider knowledge to make better trades than I have.

Anyway GL.

>>8783486
I learned mostly from looking at other people's charts and making my own, then getting more skilled at it the longer I did it. There are a lot of indicators you can use, but you don't need most of them. With just the following I think you'd be good with even just a couple things:

-Horizontal lines that line up with candle wicks open/closes as support/resistance...the longer the s/r has existed, the more solid it is
-EMAs; 25, 55, 100, 200 time frames...watch as they act as support and resistance
-Stoch RSI, to watch for bullish/bearish divergences (must fit in 14 candle span)
-Basic understanding of volume
-Chart patterns (head and shoulders, falling wedge, etc.)

Then, learn a bit about Ichimoku clouds, fib lines, and MACD.

Even without charts, if you just buy low (ex. now where a lot of alts are near ATL) and sell high (ex. a bit above previous ATHs, selling partials along the way), you'll be good.

Love,

Lain

>>8780164
>but the system isn't all that bad; especially compared with european countries.
Are you fucking kidding? The american tax system regarding crypto is the most cucked fucked up bullshit anywhere. And even when you fucking leave they will still tax you.

I used to think about moving to the US, but after finding out how cucked you guys are, I never want to set foot there

>>8783589
You know that all the US gobernment needs to do is to claim all the coins/gains traded/made on chink exchanges as money landering making people unable to cash out legally.

The regulation will only be tighter and tigher from now on

>>8783620
>shutting down one of the easiest IRS cash cows of the 21st century

yep, they'd totally do that.

>>8783611
thanks friend i will try to make it in memoriam
of u godspeed lad

>>8780048
Denial pajeet

>>8780672
County sheriff is the one will repossess your property and assets with a a Smith & Wesson to your cranium. IRS niggers are paperclip pushers.

>>8782635
You do realize Switzerland is one of the most desirable places on earth to live right faggot?

>>8779826
Why are you posting your own tweet here? I've seen you put your twatter name at the end of posts on this board.

Man, the system in US is worse than communism.

>>8780971
how is it fine? I want to buy altcoins, so I have to fait -> BTC -> altcoin.
>BUT WAIT
YOU HAVE TO PAY TAXES WHEN YOU TRADE THE BTC FOR THE ALTCOIN

>>8779826
Plainly your a burger the land of the fatally oppressed. The rest of us in the free world dont give a fuck about your irs yet we do feel for you. The owners of the world reserve currency put their peons in place for getting uppity using an alternative currency system as opposed to their peon plantation slave model fiat. How dare you burger get back in your place feel the wrath of your overseers

>>8782721
you sound like a filthy jew

>>8783611
Well bitch, can't you like stay around and talk about music and dancing shit? You were cool.

>>8780672
Absolutely based.

Holy fucking shit Americans are the most cucked idiots on the planet
>Get taxed into bankruptcy for trading imaginary money
>All that money is going directly to support useless illegal aliens ,food stamps for nogs, state sponsored surgery for trannies and to support Israel and the Jews

Holy fucking KEK !!

>>8784160
Technically if the BTC didn't go up in value between the time you bought it and when you traded it for the alt-coin there's no tax.

>>8784253

>>8782635
how exactly is switzerland cucked? I plan to move there someday, especially because it is so based.

Who unironically bought Pokemon and Magic Cards to cash out? I can't be the only one

>>8783402
>live in the woods for a while
You fucking raccoon! I hope you get ran over by a truck.

>>8781561
wow the first person i've seen so far to actually cite the guidelines!

>>8780045
the 3k limit applies to other sources of income in the CURRENT YEAR. so if you lose 3k in crypto but earn 100k wagecucking, you pay 3k less taxes on your wagecuck earning and lost nothing.

there is no cap on losses rolling forward. trump went bankrupt and lost $900m+ in the 90s and didn't have to pay taxes for like 20 years.

if you have significant capital losses, you can keep doing crypto and not pay taxes in the future.

so there's a bright side of going negative by the taxes. you will regain that money by not having to pay taxes on the future. on other sources of income.

If you trade BTC for Dogecoin on Poloniex, and think that is a taxable event and you need to report it, you deserve to lose all your money to the IRS

>>8784370
While that is true it would be pretty hard for them to regain the money because they would have nothing in the market after paying off the IRS. They would have to wage cuck and save up money all over again to invest with and time another bull run (if it even comes) just right.

>>8784370
>so if you lose 3k in crypto but earn 100k wagecucking, you pay 3k less taxes on your wagecuck earning and lost nothing.

That's not the situation the typical NEET here was in. Most of them have no wage cuck money first of all and they were playing with their life savings. Typically peaking at $20k in crypto (judging from blockfolios)

>>8784423
this, people so fucking stupid even dumber than me and me fucking retard
like there some sort of DOGE-BTC-USD conversion

>>8779946
>tfw you literally cannot evade taxes since goyimbase turned over all your records to the IRS

What happens when I use crypto to send money overseas (for a better exchange rate)? I’m texhbically gaining money in the conversion but if I sent it back it would be the same amount of initial money?

>>8784607

DOGE and BTC have a USD dollar value at the time the trade was executed. You pay taxes on the gains according to that USD value at that point in time. It's really not that hard to understand. I have 100 Shares of Apple, I sell them and buy Amazon, I still have to pay taxes on the gains I accrued on the apple stock. Crypto is not treated any differently by the IRS. It's not rocket science, just complicated because most traders have done 100's if not 1000's of trades and simply haven't bothered to keep track of them.

>>8780018

People like you are retarded. Crypto to crypto is not like selling a stock to fiat then buying another stock with fiat. Some cryptos aren't even paired to fiat, just another crypto, they have no reasonable market price. IRS has zero guidelines on this so its fair game to exclude crypto to crypto transactions and no way to even audit your trades.

Yeah, the government might later pass a crypto tax law and retroactively apply it, but then you would just pay the tax you would have paid anyway with maybe a trivial penalty.

Unless you have like 6+ figures in crypto you cashed out into a bank account and probably trigger AML alerts you have no chance of getting audited.

>>8784607
>like there some sort of DOGE-BTC-USD conversion

DOGE coin and other alts are classified by this intergovernmental report as "convertible virtual currency". If there is a market-maker that allows you to get to USD somehow, even if it takes 2 jumps, they consider it convertible.

http://www.fatf-gafi.org/media/fatf/documents/reports/Virtual-currency-key-definitions-and-potential-aml-cft-risks.pdf

>Altcoin refers to math-based decentralised convertible virtual currency other than bitcoins, the original such currency. Current examples include Ripple; PeerCoin, Lite-coin; zerocoin; anoncoin and dogecoin. One popular exchanger, Cryptsy, would reportedly exchange over 100 different virtual currencies (as of 2 April 2014). (Popper, N., 2013)

So they would indeed be taxed on the DOGE-BTC-USD calculated fair market value according to the IRS virtual currency guidance.

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-drop/n-14-21.pdf

>In general, the sale or exchange of convertible virtual currency, or the use of convertible virtual currency to pay for goods or services in a real-world economy transaction, has tax consequences that may result in a tax liability.

While we are on the subject whats a way to cash out avoid taxes altogether? Or do I have to wait for the singularity where people just pay in crypto to start with?

Land of the free - what a fucking joke America is. Complain about communism but you’re giving the government all your money anyway.

Ahahahaha

>>8782761
Fuck off IRS

If, over the course of several years of trades, I made a million dollars in crypto and decided to cash it all out at once, would I still be fine come tax day? Assuming I have the full trail of trades documented from day 1.

Basically if I don't report on previous years will that fuck me at all once I do end up reporting?

>>8784803
Yeah, you would be charged with willful under-reporting and face penalties and interest.

>>8781381
Can you believe they pay so much in taxes and still have to pay an arm and a leg for healthcare, college etc?

>>8784253
in reality most tax money just goes into the pockets of politicians

>>8784752
>>8784701

yeah just like they taxed my 100,000 WoW Auction House transactions from me buy and sell WoW Token; a literal virtual currency.

>>8784867
Not currently in the same classification as Convertible Crypto Currency.

>Non-convertible (or closed) virtual currency is intended to be specific to a particular virtual domain or world, such as a Massively Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game (MMORPG) or Amazon.com, and under the rules governing its use, cannot be exchanged for fiat currency. Examples include: Project Entropia Dollars; Q Coins; and World of Warcraft Gold.

>>8783214
Flood

>>8784899
it literally can tho, playerauctions.com 100% legal

>>8784918
(note: something me do pay capital gains of EOY when cash out. plz irs no rape me)

>>8784918
The problem is your argument doesn't make it so that crypto is non-taxable. That just makes it so WOW is taxable.

>>8782941
they are already have scripts to crawl and trace blockchain transactions, and exchanges with US customers will have to provide their data

it's probably correct that they will initially go after large value targets but desu I'd rather not get fucked by some back tax shit + interest in the future

>>8782761
this absolute fucking cuck mentality of most people is EXACTLY why syndicates like the IRS keep making such draconian laws.

>oh n-no, they increased taxes by another 20% this year, but there's NOTHING we can do because they'll put us in the gulag if we don't pay

>>8784958
your problem is there is no legislative history for IRS and virtual currencies and you are making poor anons fomo into paying ridiculous contradictory tax codes

>>8785045
NONE LEGISLATIVELY ENFORCED TAX CODES
me add

>>8784803

No you would just act like the crypto came out of the blue, you'd have no cost basis. So you would pay 100% of what ever you cash out. Not a big deal because you probably only put like a couple thousand in max. It would be a bigger deal if you put in 1 mil then cashed out 2 mil, without the paper trail you have to pay double taxes on the first 1 mil.

>>8785078
yeah this is exactly my case, i only put in 3k and dont really plan on putting in more unless btc hits 3k (and then ill probably just buy 1 whole btc) and that will be the end of my investment

>>8784993
i agree if i make it I'll just leave the US and cash out somewhere else even if maybe i can never come back who gives a fuck there are plenty of other good places in the world

>>8782994
you buy 1 X for $100 USD/ea

1 month later 1 X is worth $200 USD/ea, and you trade 1 X for 2 Y (worth $100/ea)

You realized $100 in capital gains at time of the trade

>>8785045
>>8785068
So you're saying the IRS will not pursue any one for crypto currency taxation because they haven't done it as of yet? And they put in all that effort pursuing coinbase records and hiring chainalysis for nothing?

>>8785045
>>8785181
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-02-08/irs-cops-scouring-crypto-accounts-to-build-tax-evasion-cases

>>8782111
This is the single biggest point of failure for crypto and my faith in this reality changing is slim at best

>>8783006

>>8785252
Yeah, but there are ways around that. You can still anonymously buy through localbitcoins and bitcoin ATMs. You can still anonymously trade through Binance with no KYC, as long as you stay at level 1 (2 BTC withdrawal max per day). You can still sell anonymously, also through localbitcoins and ATMs.

And if you already have an account registered to you via KYC, you can simply move all your funds to Monero, and open a new level 1 Binance account with no KYC, move your monero to that account, buy back into your old positions, and trade anonymously.

How will the government tax you if there is no trace of your name on any of the exchanges, emails, or purchases, especially trading from an exchange in China (Malta now), that is actively avoiding regulation?

>>8785376
This. If you're smart you got money in two different paths - one completely anonymous that never touches your identity and another for kyc burger exchanges. Of courses that requires a bit of work

>>8781096
>>8781154
>implying I would want to come back
top lel

>>8785376
eh lain, didnt get your email before deleting that twatter account like you promised.
t. you know who it is

>>8785376
You could probably get away with the crime, desu. I'd personally be too paranoid to do the Monero-ing out from a KYC exchange thing though. Agents would look at that and KNOW you're evading taxes and be on your ass with a magnifying glass investigating you along with drug dealers and deep web weapons dealers.

>>8780672
I anonymized some of my holdings by moving them through shapeshift and monero, and I trade that stack anonymously. I will never pay tax on that stack and I will never convert it to fiat. I will purchase things with crypto if I need to, though.

Good riddance, this guy has been bitching about the market since Feb

>>8785633
Yeah, I can take a guess. Still, I'm not gonna post my email on circlejerk. I'm re-activating my Twitter account for like 25 minutes, then deleting it again. Message me on there fast and I'll send it to you.

>>8785762

LETS ALL LOVE LAIN <3

>>8785181
>>8785252
me say if you think IRS will even think about try to enforce those 2014 regulations you crazy
those regulations classify virtual currencies as 4 different assets, it non-sense

additionally if the IRS botched their unenforceable case, they would invalidate 6 years of taxing capital gains which fuck them 20 ways to sunday
people who don't pay even 1 cent of taxes deserve to be of fuck
but taxing imaginary USD-BTC-ALTCOIN-HYPOTHETICAL USD-BTC-USD conversion, just lol

>>8780652

actually, technically you could owe tax here if the $ value of BTC grew between when you purchased it and when you exchanged it for the altcoin.