/biz/ - Business & Finance

Hello, FBI

>>8749263
>They don’t have the resources to even begin to investigate 1% of crypto owners
They'll pick a few people to make examples of. This will play out like the piracy/DCMA did.

Piracy still happens. Crypto will continue.

>>8749263
It's not about them catching you if you don't file. That will never happen. They'll catch you when you cash out to a bank account. If you have anything above high 5 figures, this shit better be on the books.

Thank you OP.

It really hurts and triggers me beyond imagination to see so many cattle here getting out of their way to pay their taxes when this is totally contrary to the very concept of cryptocurrency.

Please avoid taxes

>>8749286
So fucking what? It will take them hundreds of years to get round to (You) by that time you would have enough money and sense to permanently leave the shitty USa

>>8749285
You think the fbi gives a shit? Are you 12?

>>8749305

the world isnt fair. idealism isnt rewarded, its taken advantage of. i really hate it too but the best way to fight this is to accept it and learn to prey on predators. then you can fund all the idealism you want and help make the world the place you want it to be.

>>8749339
>It will take them hundreds of years to get round to (You) by that time you would have enough money and sense to permanently leave the shitty USa
That's what a lot of people are betting on. They don't have the resources to collect normal unpaid taxes, I doubt they're going after crypto hard.

Also if crypto is to have a real future we will not be dealing with the IRS, SEC or any centralized banking system. Making money is fun, destroying the current system in place is funner.

>>8749407
You sound like a fucking cuck. You should sell your crypto because you’re not going to have fun when we as a community take this where it’s going.

>>8749408
>destroy the centralized banking system
>society in chaos
>crypto becomes useless due to massive power and network outages

>>8749520
>implying we won't have nuclear fusion on lock by then

>>8749263
>They don’t have the resources to enforce anything.
If you really think that, you are in for a world of hurt.

>>8749520
Person who has no accurate model of the way the world works in his head detected.

I wondered how I was getting so rich and I realised I was trading against people like (you)

>>8749559
Yeah I really DO think that and NO I won’t be in for a world of anything. Suck my dick cuck.

>>8749559
Are you fucking retarded?
You really think they are able to follow every transaction and every swap you made on an exchange?
Maybe in theory, but no way that they are capable of doing it in the end.

>>8749600
Never change, /biz.

>>8749303
At that point, how are you supposed to report your gains? Using regulated US-based exchanges is one thing. But what if the gains are from holding a whole bunch of shitcoins from some chink exchange like everyone and their grandmother is doing?

>>8749285
>muh FBI
>>>/pol/

How about they automate everything and put the burden of work on the users or they get charged with tax evasion.

Makes that real simple doesn't it. All that manual work is now fucking easy.
I thought cryptocucks were stupid but goddamn you take the retard cake.

>>8749617
>follow every transaction and every swap
Order the banks to freeze the account after transactions from fiat/crypto-gateway, then let the bank demand documents from the person the account is from. If you provide no documents, the whole amount will be taxed.

In e.g. Germany, this happens almost automatically, if you get a big amount of fiat from a source you never had contact with before. They freeze the account, call the tax authorities and they handle any further issues on this.

If you want to cash out big amounts via localbitcoin, you are plebs anyways and the amount would not matter anyways to start such a procedure.

>>8749656
That's not the IRS's problem you scrub. Report your earnings. Ask if you're confused.
Only people with a millennial mindset think "I didn't know!!!!!! This is confusing!!!!!!?" will keep them from jail.

>>8749714
Like I said they don’t have the resources to charge everybody with tax evasion. They can automate as they like, they can’t automate the process of prosecution, arrest, trial, judgement or imprisonment.

They simply don’t have the resources to do that on top of every Mexican and drug dealer not declaring shit.

Basically if you report your taxes you’re a fool. There are plenty of ways to cash out of crypto without it touching your bank account. Just use your imagination for half an hour.

>>8749714
>How about they automate everything and put the burden of work on the users or they get charged with tax evasion.

Which is literally how it is handled here in Germany.
It is easy.
If works.
And it fucks you up big time, if you seriously try to dodge the system.

>>8749714
>>8749767
>hmm, yes, fuck me harder taxman, please go deeper

that's you.

>>8749792
You’re just the German equivalent of these cucks here. Every first world country has an automated system. Some people are just so scared of the government that they pussy out and report. If you just don’t do this then you are pretty much 100% safe. Life is too short to worry about this shit. If they want your money let them come and take it. But just voluntarily giving them it is a cuck move.

>>8749723
Alright. I am a pleb then.

>>8749784
Do you not know how big a business it is in the tax world?
Cryptobabbies have fucking pennies compared to the tax auditing world. There's big goddamn money in automation and A.I.

Listen to >>8749792

You WILL be fucked up. You're a data entry in a database. The only manual work that's put forth is you're put on a calendar so the proper authorities can take care of you.
Emails have been sent to you that were automated. Automated phones calls were placed. And automatically they can notate that you fucking ignored them.

>>8749833
I'm so scared now. Please give me a discount link to bitgoy.tax!

>>8749784
>Like I said they don’t have the resources to charge everybody with tax evasion.

I can assure you with a certainty of 100% (no, notr 99,99% or 99,9999% - straight 100%), that the whole German tax machinery is more than able to handle crypto gains, even if half of Germany would hold cryptocurrencies and sell it in a single fucking day.
And Germany has arguably the most detailed and extensive codified tax law on this planet.

You have a naive imagination about the infrastructure in this field. It is a huge interconnected network between banks, tax autorities, criminal prosecution, law enforcement, police and many many more attack vectors.

>>8749263
It's nice to see some people believe in the true spirit of crypto

Who wants to fuck us over, if our crypto gains never touch the bank account again?

>>8749833

Kek you were almost believable until you mentioned emails and phone calls, the IRS only writes letters!

>>8749824
>You’re just the German equivalent of these cucks here.

A finance-guy with a wife with a major in taxes.
I just know how this system works here - and Germany is by far not the only country that is able to fuck you over royaly, just over some gains you did not report.

"Just do not report" is not something you do in this regard without having to deal with significant problems later on. It might come to light not today but in a year or two, but the authorities! do! not! care! that you had "no idea".
In Germany, it is taxed in hindisght then. If they judge, that this was tax evasion, you even pay heavy interest rates on these gains (6% p.a. right now).

And they have the ressources.
If you think that this is not the case, you! are! wrong!
This is not an opinion. This is fact.

>>8749882
lol germans are so fearful of authority, deluded cuck

Anyone who's actually still on the fence, pay them.

If you think "they don't have enough resources!" theyll sure as shit make you a priority over joe shmoe who onlyplease off yourself earned $300 from his stocks.

They can go back 10 years to wreck you (Coinbase 2014/2015 records anyone?), so good luck hiding out that long.

Anyone saying not to pay is outside of the US, owns no crypto, or is just plain fucking stupid.

>>8749882
>chinese, monero, exchange
Three words can BTFO tax shills.

Germans can buy monero with fiat on kraken. Just send it to an exchange where you aren't verified on a different email.

>>8749559
Pigs get slaughtered

>>8750038
woops, accidentally pasted 'please off yourself' from another thread, ignore that part unless you call me a tax cuck, then in that case please do off yourself

>>8750018
Go back to using your PayPal cuck. Crypto is not for people like you

>>8749723
>The whole amount will be taxed
Fine with me.
>put in 5k
>cash out 10 milli
They can just tax the whole thing if it saves me the hassle of recording everything I ever did

>>8749723
>If you provide no documents, the whole amount will be taxed.
That was my plan if it ever came to it. UK

>>8750018
>If they judge, that this was tax evasion, you even pay heavy interest rates on these gains (6% p.a. right now).

To make an example:
You made 100.000€ in ETH in 2016 - you bought the ETH for 20k€ in cash in early 2015.

These 100k will end up in your bank account.
Bank sees: "This guy never had such sums on his account. From Coinbase."
Bank thinks: "Lets talk to the next tax authority about this.".
Banks sends an inquiry to the next tax authority.
In 2017, you had to report it - you did not.
Tax authorities are busy handling all the cryptogains, your case gets on the stack.
THEY HAVE TIME!
Three years later (2020) - you bought a good house, a nice car and you are happy, because you "made it".
Tax authority gets to your case.
Sends a letter to you to provide proof where the money came from.
You cannot provide proof, as 20k€ entered in cash were anonymous.
Whole 100k are taxed as income.
You need to pay ~42k in taxes, you not reporting it is ruled as tax evasion.
With three years pending, you need to add ~8k in interest.

All in all, you paid 20k€ for the ETH, the state wants ~50k from you (not even including fines here, which depend on how much you make at the time), which you already spent the money in non-liquid assets. Add another 5k, if you want to dodge prison, if you are convicted to sit.
Congrats, you need to firesell your house, your car and maybe even end up with a criminal sentence for tax evasion.
For 25k€ in gains, you had to overthrow your life and you are convicted.

(Might got some dates wrong above - like I said, I am from finance, my wife could do this more accurate...)

What if you cash out at a loss?
t. just cashed out 4 figure sum into bank account

>>8750393
>buying a house or a car
>not just leaving the country and buying a much cheaper and bigger house in a much warmer and cheaper country

>>8750393
Tl;dr:
With reporting: 100k-20k-42k = 38k gains, no worries and nothing to care about

Without reporting: 100k-20k-50k-(undefined amount of fines)-5k to keep you from prison = <25k

You lost more than 13k (~35%) of your gains.
The state WILL get you (there is no IF in this matter, only a WHEN)
You will be a convict.

Face it: you are all way(!) too small to pull an elaborated tax-evasion-maneuver to circumvent it.

>>8750455
>leaving the country and buying a much cheaper and bigger house

Flee the country, just to dodge paying a medium sized five-digit sum...?
Kek

>>8750393
Thanks annon for your effort!
Appreciate it.
Since it seems that you know some stuff:
What if I can provide that I bought coins on coinbase and also can show some rough trading history, but never wrote it down detailed.
Would they be fine with taxing me everything, or to I have to fear, because I didnßt document every trade?

>>8750393
Please just kys already, you pathetic shill. I can't believe grandparents of a worthless trash like you almost conquered the world.

>>8750407
>What if you cash out at a loss?
If you have documents, that you traded it with a loss, you can use this even to lower your tax burden.

Important: documents.
Without documents, you cant do shit with the loss.

>>8749263

I've been telling you niggers for months. Stop being a little cuckfaggot and paying the tax kike.

you idiots really think the IRS has no money to enforce taxes?
do you not think they would involve a more suited organization(nsa,fbi, cia, to track and prosecute cryptocurrency traders? especially when they know the payday could be much much larger (drug dealers, pedophiles,terrorists)

>>8750492
>What if I can provide that I bought coins on coinbase and also can show some rough trading history, but never wrote it down detailed.
>Would they be fine with taxing me everything, or to I have to fear, because I didnßt document every trade?

You can get a trade history from the exchanges. Download them, give it to your accountant and if nothing is fishy, this is fine. Detailed inquiries I can imagine would need talking to exchange support, I guess (no experience here).

>>8750515
>Please just kys already, you pathetic shill.
Reality. I just like to spent my time in reality, not in meme-flooded telegram-channels.

>>8749263
The risk is getting audited (happens randomly) and having to pay it back + a small penalty. It’s an acceptable risk tbqh

>>8750462
Addendum:
And if you have documents over the 20k initial investment, you pay even LESS taxes. Just about ~33k.

>>8749263
You're absolutely right. But how do you cash out in a bank account without paying taxes? Some anons said "buy gold with btc and sell gold" but how do you justify having that gold?

Oh yeah: and if you make a entry/exit via big exchanges like coinbase, govs can just tell them to deliver informations.

And in this regard, they are even way ahead from us:
https://support.coinbase.com/customer/portal/articles/2924446-irs-notification

Not even to speak from the German perspective - here, it is in discussion that all transactions from/to exchanges will get reported automatically, regardless of amount.

>>8750393

Stop thinking like a little cuckslave and start thinking like a freeman. Debt and taxes are an illusion you don't have to pay shit. They can't put a lean on a crypto wallet. and unless the fed is seriously gonna raid every tax avoider Mtgox or silk road style you can store your funds in an offsite wallet.

The most they can do is blackball you from owning a bank account. but we're pretty close to the point where a bank account is meaningless What is gonna happen when crypto becomes mass adopted and you don't even need to check out into fiat. There is not a damn thing the IRS niggers can do about it.

If you pay taxes on crypto your a little good goy cuck faggot slave.

>>8750455
That's the only way you're going to be able to buy a house and car with 100k, holy shit. If your bar for making it is $100k you already live in fucking Ethiopia or something.

>>8750794
>If you pay taxes on crypto your a little good goy cuck faggot slave.

Dream on, faggot. IRS gets you anyways.

>>8750840
Crypto will kill the IRS.

>>8750840

I refuse to submit to kike slavery If they wanna come after I'm fully prepared to go to prison over crypto.

>>8749263
Taxation is theft

>>8749285
IRS*

>>8750896

I'm just waiting for the soveriegn debt crisis to occur and allow fiat currencies are forced to go into hyperinflation. once mass layoffs occur in actually western countries and people start realizing their being swindled You'll start to see some real action occuring. This is what the kikes fear most.

>mfw never verified my binance/bittrex accounts
>mfw no one can trace my btc eth becasue they all get mixed withing big exchanges wallet
>mfw btc/eth mixers
>mfw monero
>mfw gonna go to whatever country I thinks is the best and cash out there
>mfw for the first time in human history I can travel the world with my entire wealth hidden as a passphrase in my brain
>mfw fucking winninig life

I am fine with paying taxes but the very fucking moment that I see people getting hit for more than they ever had is the second I start thinking maybe the IRS needs some humble pie.

There should NEVER be a situation where you have to pay more than you earned EVER. NEVER should anyone pay above 100% in taxes. I don't give a fuck what the argument is, bad timing, didn't know he had to cash out at X time, didn't jump through X hoop.

I don't give a FUCK! NOBODY SHOULD EVER BE FORCED TO PAY MORE THAN THEY HAVE IN TAXES. Change the system or abolish it. Hearing stories about some guy having to pay 50k when he only has 20k is un-fucking-acceptable.

>>8750990
this
but not much left
should have held monero and btc only

IRS could give a fuck. Everything is worthless now and the losses outweigh the gains from all the late adoptions and entrys. The write offs will be way higher than the cap gains.

>>8751086
I think it was a larp. I can imagine someone being this much of a cuck. Or maybe he traded between fiat or on verified accounts. Otherwise I cannot imagine someone being such a fucking goy to run to the IRS
>here, I owe you money I don't have guys, here are all my trades you wouldn't know about if I didn't tell you, please assrape me

That's why you never trade on verified accounts, that way you're leaving yourself the gate of opportunities.

>>8749559
There's always some oblivious normalfag that feels really clever posting that sort of shit. Meanwhile, the rest of us with eyes open see local small-time drug dealers driving ferraris for years while living in housing projects or even literal terrorists.

>inb4 muh deep state conspiracy
Get real. Anyone who's worked in the government, including people who end up hating the government, can tell you that's nonsense. Besides that, good luck coordinating a conspiracy over dozens of actors, let alone thousands.

>>8749303
More like anything above 10k, dumb fuck.

>>8751574
>Meanwhile, the rest of us with eyes open see local small-time drug dealers driving ferraris for years while living in housing projects or even literal terrorists.

this, also all the prostitutes etc, they somehow live their lives without having to worry about laundering that money but the tax shills here will try to scare neets with their "muh IRS" BS, yea, all the millenials that don't report crypto will go to jail, they better build a fucking football stadium-sized jail to fir us all

>>8749263
I mean if you were smart and only used decentralised exchanges, cash, etc. then you don't have to worry about paying tax at all. Especially with monero.

If you used any centralised exchanges though, the tax agencies can come fuck you anytime they want. You don't think the exchanges won't sell your ass? They aren't risking their business to help you evade taxes.

>cashing out

We're 5 years out from every store and everyone accepting cryptocurrency as payment.

>>8749263
Thank God a non crypto tax cuck thread. Listen poorfags , if you are playing with a couple grand or less total you are fucking fine. Just cash out in increments.
Stop being a pussy guys, can't believe how cucked some of you are.

Those of you who have a hundred grand or more in crypto, you are basically fucked. Have fun losing all your gains, I ain't paying shit. Plus I have 10,000 trades there is no way on earth I can convert that all and find what I owe.

>>8750912
Kek stop larping you fucking edgelord. Have you actually seen a real jail or prison? Or even the outside of your parents’ basement? 99% of people on this board would not survive prison. And to think you’d try to hang yourself in your cell using your bedsheets...over BTC. Fucking classic.

Fuck the IRS. Those niggas can SUCK MY DICK.

>>8749263
Advice to anyone actually listening to this: pay your taxes, the IRS can knock on your door 5 years from now and fuck you right in the ass.

Blood pact I'm in boys

>>8752441
You sound like a jealous faggot, and you're also going to have to pay taxes as well genius.

The IRS do not fuck around.

>>8749263
Good luck trying to cash out any significant amount of money and explaining where it came from.

>>8753172
If push comes to shove I'll just start working under the table

>>8751086
That's not how it works anon. They realized gains from selling Coin A and buying Coin B. Instead of setting aside money for taxes, they decided to reinvent/gamble it all on coin B. When coin B depreciated greatly, they couldn't afford the tax burden.

They had the profit, they just chose not to set it aside.

There is CP in the Bitcoin blockchain. Admitting to the IRS that you own Bitcoin is admitting you own CP. You will be imprisoned if you file your taxes.

If you made more than 10K in trades, report it.
If you cash out over 5K report it.
Otherwise it's pretty much tip money. Which most waiters only report half of anyway.

>>8749263
have no any way to take tax from Bitcoin

Corbyn is the reincarnation of Adolf Hitler

Fourth Reich = Camelot

>>8753352
Unless you download the entire BTC blockchain, there won't be CP in your buttcoins

What's stopping me from just leaving to Asia?

>>8749263
As soon as I buy my lambo they will come after me :(

>not being a british non dom resident with access to the worlds best tax loopholes

>>8751877
>Implying this is not already the case in the US

>>8749263
Anyone else just planning to pay tax on the full amount when you withdraw and not the individual transactions?
Australia here btw

>>8752175
I guess technically if you are engaged in money laundering you'd be harder to catch but I think the risk of a very lengthy jail sentence and/or black market vendors fucking you over with no legal recourse would be a reason for concern.

>>8749579
>>8749600
pajeet can't even bretenq to be purger

>>8752441
>advises anons to engage in illegal structuring
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Structuring

>>8754505
offcourse. why would you even self report the individual transactions?

i cant fucking believe how cucked so many of you people are.

also are any of you aware you can start a trust fund shell company in a foreign haven and operate all your trading from there? you can then withdraw the money into a bank account native to that country but you wont be able to bring it back to the country you reside in without paying taxes in most cases.

this is what i do

>>8749723
>If you want to cash out big amounts via localbitcoin, you are plebs anyways and the amount would not matter anyways to start such a procedure.

A lot of people are plebs now. Thanks for confirming. And sorry that you have paid your taxes

>>8749263
>They don’t have the resources to even begin to investigate 1% of crypto owners
>implying they wont just force exchanges to automatically send all the details

can anybody school me on CGT?

theoretically if i had 10k worth of stocks and they moved $400 up and down and every time ive been selling high and buying low making at least $400 every time

does that mean i pay tax on each trade, so better to start off with 100k and do the same thing than 10k?

am i punished more if i start with say $100 and try to trade my way up to 10k then to 100k instead of just starting with 10k for examples.

>>8754772
>Implying they can force exchanges to submit all the data, when they don't even know what jurisdication is responsible, because they don't know where the servers are.
>Implying that the can trace your blockchain throw RingCT
>Implying that OTC deals via localbitcoin are traceable

You are such a cuck

>>8754825
I believe they've already forced out are in the process of forcing Poloniex, Bittrex, and if course Coinbase to hand over their info

>>8749263
No shit

>>8749874
>>8749798

>>8750393
that shit is to long to read what the fuck

>>8750840
By the time crypto becomes relevant and profitable for the IRS they won't be existing during that time.

>>8754879
Congratulation for living in the country of freedom.