/biz/ - Business & Finance

Simple do you shop at walmart, small business, or high end stores. safe bet over 90% of walmarts items are made in china

because china is gibs me dat level niggers with a slightly more functional society

>>8741552

Do they have to be made in China though?

>>8741565
If you want the same prices yes

>>8741579
i don't want the same prices

>>8741534
competitive advantage aka econ101. tariffs are like a doctor saying "hey I can save money by firing my secretary and doing the work myself" because he doesn't consider all the money he loses by not seeing patients while he does secretary work.

>>8741611
remove china

>>8741607
Well then start shopping at small businesses and high end stores, and convince the rest of the US to do so, then we won't need China.

Why you on the Biz, you don't sound business savvy lol

>>8741641
i don't like china

you don't even run a business

>>8741534
Because jews have found a way to make whites pay for non-whites other than welfare. Good luck paying the chink nukes

>>8741534
It doesn't need to, but it is mutually beneficial.

>>8741552
No I don't shop at any of these places.

>>8741534
because shit is expensive already and nobody would be able to buy anything if its x10

>>8741792
Then where the hell do you shop? The fucking forest?

>>8741660
" i don't like china "

Great personal fucking opinion, they do so well in arguments you libtard

>>8741980
a forest IS cheaper anon

>>8742001
>i don't like china
>libtard

You can replace the word (China) in your question with any contries. And the answer will be same.

>>8742024
actually the forest is not cheaper, have you ever tried to buy a large amount of land? Or have to pay taxes on it?

The forest is not cheaper unless you are trespassing or in a damn video game where you find random swords to fight off the underworld fire goblins of doom

>>8742073
yeah land is insanely cheap if you know where to look, in fact states such as alaska and michigan sell an insane amount of land for some damn good prices

haven't played a video game in 5 years anon, doing nothing but construction. But I think you might need a break from here, sounds like someone broke a gasket

>>8741641
Wallmart's power isn't just prices. It's that they are all over the rural US so while the cheap prices are nice the reality is they are selling to people no one else will sell to.

>>8742104
It's still the prices. Before wallmart opened those small towns had small businesses. Now they get priced out by wallmart.

>>8741611
I honestly wonder if Trump has heard the term competitive advantage before. It's not the most intuitive concept to people new to economics but he has a good education in business and it's something everyone learns in class now

well a damn good price is relative term. lets say 3k is "damn good price". to make a forest with enough resources lets say you need 100 acres. that's 300k. That's not cheap. Plus your going to get raped on taxes unless you're a farmer and file for exemptions

>>8742210
alaska doesnt have land tax outside of city limits which is basically every parcel of land they sell out of their land bank

anon take a break you sound stressed did something happen

>>8742098
PS: when I'm slow i work I like to argue with WOW fags on here. Since the biz knows nothing about crypto. Just shilling and FUD

>>8742266
i highly recommend stacking up on LTC at least

Friendly reminder: The U.S. debt to China is $1.17 trillion as of January 2018.

>>8742181
Again its not just prices. Wallmart can offer a lot of things small businesses can't. A larger selection on a lot of different products and services. I am not defending them but this is their main advantage when it comes to rural areas.

>>8742251
guess there is an exception to every rule. funny how my sarcastic forest comment became an debatable topic

>>8742302
yeah we should stop getting shit from china

>>8742320
im not much of a debater anon, im a pretty simple guy and i just do as i please

hm i wonder if its good or bad that i get my opinions about things i dont udnerstand on here from other people who dont understand them

>>8742350
better here than CNN

>>8741660
I sell products from China. Better quality for $2 than I can get for $11 in the US. That's why you trade. Simple.

When they start dropping their US treasury bonds shit will truly hit the fan.

>>8742371
or any other major news organization, i stay local for my news that's all i want to hear. though that depends where im at, if its a big city dont even bother local may as well watch cnn at that point, because you'd get the same shit

>>8742374
In my personal experience with products made in china, I prefer products made in the USA. They usually are built to last depeding on WHAT exactly you're buying.

Pro tip for any anons here btw, a LOT of products involved in construction are made and sold in the USA, building materials and such. Tools you could go either or, Ryboi is not a bad brand for a chinese manufacturer

>>8741534
The boomers outsourced everything thinking "oh wow this is great. Look at all the money I'm making with this dirt cheap labor . It's not like doing this over a few decades will destroy American labor unions and the standard of living or anything. I got mine so fuck you. La la la la"

>>8742421
And with a smug smile, they wobble over to the gaping wound in America's chest, and plant a little band-aid over it. They then tell you that now that have heroically fixed the US economy, it's time for you to pull yourself up by your bootstraps and give all those new managers (from the plethora of new AMERICAN businesses opening up) that FIRM handshake for your low skilled, high paying career with upward mobility and a guaranteed pension. Just like they did.

>>8742421

>blaming boomers importing cheap goods for destroying labor unions and standards of living

That was all political action. We save hundreds of billions a year on cheap goods, and it mostly goes to rich people. We could have politically decided to invest the freed up domestic resources (mostly labor) into industries or projects which would have enhanced our standard of living and increased high wage jobs, but instead we're trying to get back shitty jobs assembling electronics

>>8742712
It's axiomatic that there will always be fewer high wage jobs than low wage jobs. You can't just replace one with the other.

>>8742183
It's not about competitive advantage. The reason the trade deficit is so big right now is exactly because the US was taking advantage of cheap chinese goods.
Even though they feed the population it's because of jobs and intellectual property, that's not the worst of it.
The true reasons for engaging in a trade dispute with china cannot be spoken out loud because it'll make the us govt look like incompetent hypocrites.

>Incompetent because of what they did
The massive outwards flow of dollars would have caused some deflation internally and buying in the US should have become cheaper overall (which is only logical, given there were less dollars and more cheap products inside). So they had two choices:
Choice A: not print more dollars and deal with free trade
>Dollar appreciates a bit
>Economy slows down a bit as everyone saves appreciating money
>Trade deficit gets smaller as china use their share of valuable dollars to import more shit until it eventually finds balance at a lower deficit than what is today
>Govt actually has to keep an eye on its spendings

Choice B: recklessly and ruthlessly cuck everyone out by printing just as many dollars as there were leaving the country:
>Dollar keeps inflating, wageslaves stay on edge working and spending like the good goys they are
>Chinese currency rises against the inflated dollar, so after a few years of basically free chinese products bought with funny money printed for the occasion, they lose their competitive edge and the deficit evens out
>Govt basically took the profit of finding a cheaper supplier that belonged to everyone who held dollars to itself by printing more until it evened out
>The escape plan foiled
You might have heard that the US has accused china of manipulating the yuan (lmao the hypocrisy). Well, that's where obama got properly chink'd. The communist Party printed just as many yuan as the US was printing dollars and prevented the yuan from appreciating against the dollar.
1/2

>>8742411
>depeding on WHAT exactly you're buying.
This is why the US is losing. They've become a specialty market instead of producing everyday goods.

>>8742804
Where does the petrodollar come into play with this?

>>8742804
Interesting write up. Do tell anon

>>8742777

Yes to the first, not necessarily to the second if I understand you right? The ratio can change, but it seems clear that on net there will be more low wage jobs. It's asserted (correctly as far as I have seen) that our ratio of low wage jobs to high wage jobs has increased because of global trade that left a lot of people, especially in old, big industrial cities, working service jobs that didn't pay as well and weren't necessarily as stable. I was implying that we have plenty of public goods that have been deteriorating, and other opportunities for large scale expensive projects which could benefit the United States like building out new energy infrastructure at a faster rate (nuclear, expanding our already existing hydro infrastructure for higher peak performance, more wind and solar as could be beneficial), all of which would be based on contracting that could stipulate whatever the government wants. Could be that they want everybody working on government projects in such and such area to get X wage with such and such benefits. Now we are creating greater energy independence, modernizing our infrastructure, getting cheap goods from abroad, strengthening the middle class and generally doing pretty well.

Instead we've been hand wringing and constantly bleating about the need to undertake such projects ONE DAY when they become even more prohibitively expensive because of the time lost, we're battling our trading partners to get those shitty jobs back and lose our savings in labor that we gave to a country with over a BILLION people who could work for us, and overall seem as though we are acting like schizophrenics.

>>8742804
I’ve actually never heard this theory before. It’s premise is actually quite persuasive. And I’ve gone to university and got my doctorate. Lmao

>>8742965
You're right but if I'm not mistaken that'd be putting a huge portion of the economy under the government's jurisdiction that maybe most Americans aren't comfortable with.

>>8741534
US has too many labor and enviormental laws and restrictions. china is 10000x more lax on enforcement and factories foundries etc can get away with just dumping their waste into the ocean or paying their workers a $0.00001 wage making the final product that much cheaper

>>8742804
2/2
In this absolute madman 4D chess move by the chinks, they have now placed the American economy in check and prevented their own cucking. By also printing more yuan in proportion to the dollar, the chinks kept their products cheap, preventing the deficit from getting smaller and in fact accelerating its growth. This has gone on for long enough that now they're a huge USD whale and have the power to crash it like the bogs, returning a mountain of free printed money to the printers in exchange for whatever equities they have. And they're doing exactly that by hoarding up gold, american land (the west coast is basically chinatown already), and trying to open up a channel to bypass the petrodollar (already in progress).

The only thing the US govt can do to save itself is become the ultimate hypocrite and commie it up and seize china-owned property on us soil, or try damage control and slow down the deficit through drastic tariffs that will certainly hurt its economy.
As of now, trump is going with the second option.

>>8741565
Unions, OSHA, saftey laws, minimum wage exist in America. Not in china.

>>8743019

That's true, it's up to political decisions. I just personally don't see why the people in favor of getting back jobs from China want to work in what seems to mostly be the assemblage of electronics. Those jobs could just pay $10/hr anyways, just like the Amazon warehouse jobs or working at Walmart for 15 years until your wage rises to $15/hr or whatever. It's all degrading, monotonous work that is already devalued globally.

>>8743059
True- A lot of the CA downtown real estate is now owned by the Chinese.

>>8742965
also doesn't help that the oilcucks are preventing the US from moving forwards in terms of green energy

>>8743059
Who does the US owe it’s debt to? And What percentage of the US debt is owned by the Chinese govmt?

>>8743168
>Who does the US owe it’s debt to?
other US departments. about 6 trillion is owed to foreign goverments. And a chunk of that is china.

>>8742804
>>8743059
Intredesting... If only I was knowledgeable enough to better understand everything.

>>8743106
I think it's more about patriotism. Those people don't want to work there, they just want their products to say made in USA. At the same time they still would rather buy the cheap Chinese products. There's pretty much nothing left for the lower class to do except work at walmart or fastfood, which they're still collecting welfare on anyway. All that shit is getting replaced by machines. And I think the government is to blame for wanting to keep the majority of the population stupid.

>>8743168
Other parts of the government that is keeping money like social security and uses their cash flow to buy government bonds.

>>8743168
The US debt is owned by anyone who buys a US Treasury bond. You can own some of the debt now if you like purchasing one from the government. Many countries invest in the US Treasury bond because it's widely considered one of the most stable investments. China is the largest foreign country invested but by no means owns anywhere close to a majority of the debt. A very significant portion of the debt is owned by the US government itself due to how funds are shifted around.

With that being said, debt can be very good. Debt means you can invest in yourself to have future greater returns, like how a college student takes on debt to get a higher paying job later. Debt is only bad when you can't make a return on the investment of the debt. The only people who get freaked out by the US debt are people who are scared of big numbers or people who don't understand very much economics, or people who do understand but have a political motivation to convince people to be scared of it

>>8742104
Hicks need to die or adapt anyway, shouldn't be subsidizing rural areas for staying rural

>>8743387
>The only people who get freaked out by the US debt are people who are scared of big numbers or people who don't understand very much economics
lmao the US debt is completely unsustainable.

>>8743424
Yeah let's all live in cubes in the city and work hunched over computer screens. Life will be a living hell but at least GDP will increase.

>>8743455
You want to keep an economy running in top form like an adult or keep acting like a fucking commie?

>>8743440
Good meme, but the US has been in debt to its great advantage ever since Hamilton. If the country runs a surplus long-term then it works well in its advantage

>>8743486
>If the country runs a surplus long-term
Which isn't going to happen. The US is in woeful need of infrastructure, boomers are about to demand pensions, and public services in general are in a dismal state. The US is running a deficit without much left to cut.

You're right in saying debt isn't bad if you invest in future productivity but the US absolutely has not done this.

>>8743485
The economy is a means to an end not an end in itself. If an increase in production makes everyone more miserable what was the fucking point?

>>8743584
Doesn't have to be, there's plenty of amenities faster moving capital makes in the cities not available in the rural areas.

Was glad when I moved my shop urban, but having part of my earnings being put to subsidizing Walmart's trade and welfare for their labor force that's not increasing productivity, that's propping up an inefficient business.

>>8743485
I think you're right, but a lot of people are just too stupid. I mean even clerical jobs seem to be too difficult for them. Try explaining Excel to a brainlet who only knows how to post instagram pictures on an iPhone.

>>8743653
Which is why the period between boomers collecting pensions and SS and finally fucking dying off is going to be the worst in American history. You can't retrain that workforce already looking forward towards retirement or their children who are sorely unprepared for being displaced by computers and automation.

>>8741534

Why do you buy a house instead of building it yourself?

Why do you buy meat instead of raising your own livestock?

Why do you buy a car instead of making it yourself?

Why do you buy beer instead of brewing it yourself?

>>8743486
Yes, debt has been around for a while and can be a powerful leverage tool. The issue this time around is rather who you owe to: the second largest economy with an authoritarian government bent on usurping first place and actively trying to spiral your debt out of control

>>8743564
The government adjusts interest rates on bonds in accordance with that. You are correct and I agree that the US has been running a deficit for a while and needs to make some serious changes. But there are those who use the big number as a fear mongering tactic, when it is not nearly as apocalyptic or even pressing as some would like you to think. The average person thinks of credit cards or shitty loans when they of "debt" and so automatically think "debt = terrible"

>>8741534
No such thing as free trade with China, it's extortion and racketeering

>>8743387
So then the student debt is a tiny bubble in the economy’s grand scheme of things. In other words it won’t make or break our economy

>>8741534
Your jews and crypto commies (DNC) want to prop up the last red hope worldwide which is China. IF China crumbles the jewish commie dream dies

>>8743965

>>8743822
I think the student debt issue is a lot more complicated to understand the repercussions of. The US has been running a deficit but the ratio of US debt to GDP isn't wildly out of sync. The ratio of student debt rising to income wages rising IS growing wildly. What is the end result? Will we reach a point where people stop going to college because the debt repayment is too insurmountable? Will certain fields completely dry up of talent then? Will a generation of consumers be stuck living paycheck to paycheck as a result of their loans for the first few decades of their career? I'm not sure, but I think the effects it could have long-term could be serious

>>8744118
Great points anon

>>8743965
can someone explain to me how jews are supposedly wanting communism to take root considering jews literally have had the best time under capitalistic society since they've been chasing the capitalist dream from time immemorial

wtf do they have to gain under communism? am i a brainlet and just don't understand that jews somehow gain a lot under some weird totalitarian communistic society where they can no longer run their factories?

werent rich jewish fucks the first group of people that got absolutely fucked in Russia when the revolution took place?

>>8741813
That's what the world used to be like before China.

>>8744654
You had more purchasing power in the past, you brainlet.
Give the people a new iphone and they won't even realise it.

>>8741534
I don't want to be a capitalist anymore

>>8741534
You're right, anon... why do we even bother dealing with the most populated country on the planet that has the second highest GDP, along with some of the cheapest labor and products available

>>8741565
Do you want to pay 10x the price for the most basic plastic stuff?
And burgers probably don't have enough people to produce all the things bought from china.

>>8744118

This, but also I think the primary metric to look at for the US debt is the deficit to GDP. That is how much money the government is injecting into the economy, and that would be the limit on the government's ability to spend since a high deficit to GDP would mean the government could be running the risk of creating excessive inflation, depending on the conditions of the economy.

Typically, though, the deficit to GDP hasn't been that bad. It spiked in 2008 but has been trending back toward 2% for years. Trump, somewhat ironically given that he styled himself as against the debt, has been helping to reverse the trend, but only in a minor way. I think Japan's deficit to GDP was hovering around 9% for some years (and obviously they're known for having an extremely high debt to gdp ratio) and they're still mostly battling deflation because of their population issues.

>>8745382

Meant to include FRED chart