/biz/ - Business & Finance

100% cash here, my guess is we'll bottom out around 1600 in september or october

also just went to gym and was pleased to see we're sub-1900 again, I bet half this board bought in on the bull trap

>>866158
Specifically OP seems to be talking about the fall in bitcoin prices, not stock

>>866172
oops did not see that

well may god have mercy on your soul and meme currency OP

I am

>>866149
Why? Bitcoin is mysapce

Ethereum is facebook

Its called "utility"

There is a company about to float on the Australian Stock Exchange on the 2nd of September (Code: BCG) that is actually a large bitcoin mining operation.

They have the equipment to make it profitable and own something like 1.7% of all bitcoin.

Would it be better to invest with them rather directly into bitcoin?

I am a retard on the topic, so why/why not would be good.

>>866628
For some odd reason when I got into bitcoin last week, if I combine all the information in my head in sync are you in this group?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1159116.0

I know nothing, im just compiling information.

>>866628
>https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1159116.0
The reason why I also think so is because there were 2-3 predictions on bitcoin, and 3+ stock predictions for pump and dumps..

They were all correct and I documented them all.

XCP NXT so cheap

>>866628
Ethereum is a meme. Bitcoin is the TCP/IP of money, and the endless features the blockchain can deliver. It caught on, it's good enough to scale, and it cannot be repeated again because the perfect circumstances cannot be repeated again. Namely: A decentralized global ledger with a consensus mechanism that solves several never-solved-before problems, going completely under the radar because people is generally dumb as a brick at spotting disruptive technology, specially people with wealth and resources to attack it if they had an agenda, and only starting to get noticed when the network is way too strong to be attacked no matter how much power you have (right now it's impossible to bruteforce the Bitcoin network, you would need several times the power of all supercomputers combined)-
Now anything that looks promising will be at constant risk of being attacked, nothing will go under the radar anymore post-Bitcoin.

It's funny how fucking clueless /biz/ is about this. You are literally trying to price something that you don't understand. Whenever I stumble upon a Bitcoin thread I take pictures and fill my "future boat missers" folder.

So like I said before, if Bitcoin cannot be attacked technologically, what can they do? deploy a trojan horse. The current ongoing attack on Bitcoin, perfectly planned to crush the price right when the markets everywhere are crashing today, is another reason why history changed in 2009 when it was released. The NSA disinfo agent Mike Hearn (as proven by the fact he is a former QinetiQ and Google employee) with his perfect troyan horse called Bitcoin XT loaded with NSA-friendly code:

http://cointelegraph.com/news/115153/bitcoin-xt-fork-can-blacklist-tor-exits-may-reveal-users-ip-addresses

is causing hysteria and creating doubt RIGHT when Bitcoin was going to skyrocket again as it always does when something goes to shit fiat related (the Cyprus pump, the Greece pump, etc).

(continued)

>>866149
NTFX is below 100 will buy on friday same for AAPL

what else should i buy friends?

>>866756
Now, the price was going to skyrocket again because this time shit is going to hit the fan really bad, and they had to do something about it, and they are making a good job at it as you can see. They are implanting doubt on Bitcoin so it cannot be seen as a safe haven during financial meltdowns (which is what was starting to be seen as after the price always went up when something bad happened fiat related). And all the code they are trying to pass with the excuse of the blocksize decrease your privacy is simply disgusting. In 10 or 20 years when physical cash is a thing of the past, the people that voted for Hearncoin will regret dearly. Sure, a lot of holders may end up making a million or two anyway, myself included, and everyone that Gavin and Hearn has bribed to publically support them will become filthy rich, but say goodbye to financial privacy. If Core losses, im afraid of the consequences.
History is being made right now while you dick around with stocks, sad, sad to see.

>>866756
>>866779

Good posts on the issue at hand.

>>866792
Thanks. I have to say that Ethereum is "not a meme" in the sense that it's worthless, what is a meme is saying that "it will replace Bitcoin". Ethereum has tremendous potential to perform CERTAIN tasks that may be difficult or impossible to perform within the Bitcoin blockchain, but the standard of decentralization is on Bitcoin and everything will revolve around it. Things will just keep being worked on top of it just like TCP/IP got endless workarounds around endless "it will never do voip, it will never scale up worldwide.. etc" claims.
There's also yet to be seen how Ethereum scales to Bitcoin levels given its Turin complete nature and all the difficulties it conveils.

>>866756
>>866779
>>866825

I am interested in investing in bitcoin but, in your opinion, will it continue to drop like a rock for a while?

>>866149
I think I am.

>>866826
There's no way to know what will happen next. In the very long term (5+ years) it's obviously cheap, but everything surrounding Bitcoin is still archaic and too prone to volatility. We'll go throught more bubbles, bigger ATH's than before. The marketcap is tiny and anyone with millions in the bank can manipulate the price, this coupled with the ongoing Core/XT incident only makes it more shaky, this coupled with the fact the fiat system is starting to collapse "again" makes it even more unpredictable. The economy is so "healthy" that markets are screaming for QE4 and 0% interest forever in order to avoid meltdown. Addicts looking for a fix.
If Bitcoin was less prone to manipulation the price would be going up right now, but we are still in 1993 internet era as an analogy to the current Bitcoin state. And even with all those negative elements in place, fiat keeps leaking inside the Bitcoin ecosystem. The chinese are specially interested, they are stacking up like crazy. There's probably a lot of smart people in china that know shit's going down and are stacking up on Bitcoin just in case. You can see it live here:

http://fiatleak.com/

>>866825
I'm completely new to Bitcoin and want to buy some just to sit on it for a while. Where should I buy it from?

>>866882
Localbitcoins.com or an exchange

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgo68YboNJg

>>866903
What about places like Coinbase? Are they untrustworthy? If I bought from there could I move it all to an offline wallet?

>>866903
I would personally use Localbitcoins, I have never given my credentials to any exchange, too paranoid. In the future we'll have decentralized p2p exchanges.

For crypto->crypto operations you don't need credentials in most exchanges so you can freely trade BTC->any alt you want.

>>866908
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/34yvtf/coinbase_is_behaving_like_big_brothermonitoring/

From what i've read I would avoid it.

>>866916
And yes you could move it all to an offline wallet.
Never leave coins inside web wallets and inside exchanges.

>>866919
What's the best method for an offline wallet? I was thinking of installing an OS on a separate SSD and just unplugging it after I put the wallets on it.

>>866779
So what are you implying? buy bitcoin?

Should I even bother buying bitcoin unless it drops to double digits?

>>866756
Nope. You're delusional, ethereum is simply the better option technologically, you have this vague "conspiracy" against cryptos in your mind and its coloring all your reasoning to be illogical.

>>866779

So they began the attack during the beggining of the china troubles months ago when btc briefly went up to 280 in response and then dwindled to 250ish? even though in prior events of much less signifigance its gained hundreds of dollars of value? you quite sure the 1000 bucks a pop wasn't the wally bot m8? because we have a whole shit ton of evidence that it was, in fact, just manipulation (by non government forces, just normal greedy folks) on one exchange.

and how exactly is bitcoin "financial privacy" when its open ledger for everyone to see? oh thats right they could just fork for that, oh wait a minute, no they cant, bitcoin is notoriously dinosaur like at forking and adopting new useful features whereas ethereum is absolutely revolutionary from the getgo

>>866628
Can I buy crystal meth with ETH?

>Just spent all my savings on a downpayment for a house.

>>866983
why should I buy etherum over every other memecoin like litecoin

>>866825
>>866779
>>866756
who the hell are you, how did you compile all this info yourself? Where did you get this info

>>866984
why... wh......wtf you keep asking this question every butt coin thread, Yea you can I guess on ... silk road

Finally the stock market kids will get to experience the pain everyone else has been for the past 8 years.

Enjoy losing your money assholes, you will soon get to experience the fruits of your labor.

>>867142
So I can smoke that motherfucking meth nigger report me faggot I dare you

>>867005
read up on what it does

>>867169
a true /biz/nessman

>>866628
No.

Stop shilling your meme-coins.

The reason btc is valuable is because its base is large and has faith in the coin, all these other retarded coins try to justify their existence with small tweaks with the already completely acceptable btc system - as if that even comes close to being first and having a runaway head start.

btc IS crypto.

>>867254
Besides Bitcoin, really there are only two other interesting coins:

Namecoin: Using the blockchain as a distributed key-value store, which also acts as a value sink, pulling coins out of the system as people pay to do database operations.

Litecoin: Some interesting modifications, and it was designed to work with bitcoin rather than replace it.

>>866149
When what bottoms out?

Bitcoin, or the DOW?

I'm shorting the DOW as I type.

>>867270
DOW is going DOWn, get out while you still can boys. 90% Cash here.

>>867254
Lol small tweaks.

Ethereum makes developing blockchain DAPPs as easy as web development. Bitcoin code is ancient and only designed to do one thing and not even very well.

Bitcoin could be implemented in a few lines of Ethereum code.

Ethereum is the JavaScript of blockchain technology.

That's why the auger devs chose Ethereum and not a Bitcoin sidechain. It would have taken them years longer if not made impossible what they could build in Ethereum in a few months.

Already bitcoin royalty is beginning to back Ethereum. Your Bitcoin fundamentalism is allowing them to leave you with their bags while they escape onto the Ethereum blockchain.

>>866628
>Ethereum
>developers did a huge premine and are literally dumping it all for bitcoins
Yeah, no.

>>867420
Nice disinfo. The devs are selling eth to fund development. I hope they sell enough to fund development for the next hundred years. As a Ethereum holder I hope the dev team is well funded I wouldn't want it any other way
>see: Bitcoin

>>867423
>we need 10 million to fund development, goy!
:^))))))

>>867429
Good code costs money. 10 million is cheap.

If it was up to me they would get 100 million

>>867434
>10 million
>to write bitcoin with the name replaced to ether
:::::^^^)^)^))^))))
>it's different!
Yeah it is, the devs can dump their meme coin directly into bitcoin and retards will buy it.

>>867443

If you think ethereums code is based on Bitcoin you need to go and do your research.

Bitcoin doesn't work. You can't BUILD anything on it without sidechains and ugly hacks.

Someone even ported the quake 3 engine to run on Ethereum. Can you do that with bitcoin? Can you do anything interesting with Bitcoin?

>>867456
>Can you do anything interesting with Bitcoin
It's a fucking cryptocurrency. I don't want people playing FUCKING DOOM on my god damn money.
>my shitcoin runs Linux ::^:^:^)))^))^))
>wanna buy it with a real cryptocurrency?

>>867458
Ethereum is the protocol. Ether is the currency.

No one will be running quake with your money . But they will have to Use a LOAD of Ether in order to run quake on Ethereum

See? that's what's going to make Ether valuable people will need to SPEND it in order to run their computations on the Ethereum protocol.

>>866983
ETH will never replace BTC. You are as stupid as any other TCP/IP hater back in the day with their "but muh superior technology" idiocy. Bitcoin is good enough. Good enough + network effect is all that matters. Then again you wouldn't understand this because you weren't born yet.

>So they began the attack during (...)

The trojanXTcoin attack has been goin on for as long as they wanted to hardfork the coin, but incidently and what a coincidence, the actual softfork happened very recently, like a week ago if I remember correctly, when the node fight started.
And of course 1000/BTC was a mix of manipulation/buying frenzy/whatever. The marketcap was tiny to so any relevant amount of money coming in skyrockets the price. It would only take 1% of fiat leaking inside BTC to make it 6 figures a coin, and it will eventually happen. Consider that something like UBER has a bigger marketcap than BTC. Get some perspective and you'll see how undervalued this thing is.

>and how exactly is bitcoin "financial privacy" when its open ledger (...)

You are clueless about the technology and probably bought ETH because "muh superior technology." Bitcoin is as anonymous as you want to care about anonimity, and it will be more anonymous in the future (see the BIP for confidential transactions by gmaxwell). BTC's anonimity has to be optional and not by default because it would never go beyond some anarcho-libertarian type of niche (see Monero etc). The open ledger would constitute the ultimate anti corruption machine to manage public money from institutions, while if you want anonimity you would have options too, just like you have the default internet and then Tor. Of course I would like to live in a world where Bitcoin is 100% anonymous and we have no banks or government but I don't that's gonna happen.

>>867456
>TCP/IP doesn't work, you can't build anything over it without endless top layers

See how dumb you sound. There are endless projects happening in Bitcoin already.

Some very early examples

http://orisi.net

http://btcrow.com

http://openbazaar.org

https://www.coinprism.com

https://www.counterparty.co

http://cointelegraph.com/news/115118/tau-chain-a-decentralized-app-store-with-greater-flexibility-than-ethereum

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkO9hxVv4lU&t=34m50s

You should watch the entire videos but since you are all too lazy I will put the exact minute of a cool use case application of Bitcoin.

And again, im not denying the potential of Ethereum to perform certain tasks, but a lot of the case uses can be made on Bitcoin already, and what's pretty much nonsense is saying "ETH will replace BTC". I see a future where Bitcoin and ETH coop together to make certain tasks since ETH is non viable to be internet money. But don't underestimate what can be done throught sidechains (google Elementsproject), and also don't forget ETH is yet to test itself at a bigger scale yet.

Also, everyone here is forgetting Maidsafe. Huge potential to be huge as well. Im holding some.

>>867563
Not the same guy

The thing is, no new money is going in to btc. It's being sold more than its being bought. You can't be like "one day money will come" because where? And surely if everyone really believed money would come they would buy more Btc and the price would be rising. Instead the price is falling because the outlook is bleak.

Ethereum really is revolutionising what's possible with blockchain technology. It can win where Bitcoin failed.

>>867635
>>867635
You need to do a lot of reading. Again, you don't understand the technologies properly. The fact Bitcoin is turing incomplete was in purpose for stability and security reasons.
Also you are complaining that no new money goes into BTC while ETH crashes as IPO guys dump.
New money goes into BTC constantly:

fiatleak.com

In any case, like I said before, we are on the early 90s of the internet when it comes to Bitcoin, you can't complain about price. Give Bitcoin 2 years and come back, then we'll compare marketcaps.

>>867635
>It's being sold more than its being bought
>there are more upward slopes than downward slopes
That is how retarded you are. You are literally fucking retarded.

Yesterday the bitcoin selloff was likely due to investors liquidating their bitcoin to buy the dip in US stocks.the price hitting -200 caused some buying, and I bought another coin, but I think we might see a new low in the coming weeks. It's really hard to predict, but I usually go with the idea that the people with real money in bitcoin aren't going to get out without manipulating the market to make a profit. Watch for pump and dumps. Buy after a sell-off, then wait for the new pump. If bitcoin is going to go to 0, you can be sure it will skyrocket first.

>>866149
Sure, maybe when it dropps to $0.02/BTC.

>>867254
The only reason it has the value is first mover advantage , the only reason its still riding that momentum is hashing power , its got its hashing power still because of its value.

Circular.

If the break even point is 200 bucks , what incentive does a miner have to keep at it when their is no profit?

Whereas ethereum has actual utility . You can use ethereum for more than just a store of value (it has actual uses beyond just buying drigs on the darknet)

>>867563
>>facebook will never replace myspace , myspace is good enough , good enough + network effect...

>>867952
>money needs to have additional uses to be desirable
Thank god I can burn my cash, I'd never want to even fucking have it if it didn't have other uses!

>>867680
Even your beloved antonopoulos has come out in support of ethereum.

Probably because he knows it has the only chance of fulfilling his dream of a new decentralised economic system based on blockchain technology.

>muh stability of code

No Bitcoin is buggy as all hell to develop on. Change one thing and the whole thing breaks. That's why Ethereum is better, it's turing completeness allows easy developments of decentralised applications.

>>867680
And don't try and show me fiatleak like it has any bearing on reality that sites been debunked more times than the official version of who shot JFK

>>867983
>>867989
So fucking what, I support Ethereum too, im not deluded enough to think Ethereum will replace BTC, it will only work in cooperation with it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wv3gpfZ1IK4

He has also commented on how he has his doubts about Ethereum scaling correctly in one of those long podcasts.

>No Bitcoin is buggy as all hell to develop on. Change one thing and the whole thing breaks. That's why Ethereum is better, it's turing completeness allows easy developments of decentralised applications.

Lol you are fucking clueless. Again, Bitcoin not being turin complete is a feature, it was needed to solve tons of problems and exploits a turin complete solution has.

So fucking what, I support Ethereum too, im not deluded enough to think Ethereum will replace BTC, it will only work in cooperation with it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wv3gpfZ1IK4 [Embed]

He has also commented on how he has his doubts about Ethereum scaling correctly in one of those long podcasts.

>No Bitcoin is buggy as all hell to develop on. Change one thing and the whole thing breaks. That's why Ethereum is better, it's turing completeness allows easy developments of decentralised applications.

Lol you are fucking clueless. Again, Bitcoin not being turin complete is a feature, it was needed to solve tons of problems and exploits a turin complete solution has.

Fiatleak takes data from the exchanges, you can go to the exchanges listed below and see it live dummy.

>>867957
Idiotic analogy addressed a million times. Flush yourself.

>>868003
I have no doubt Bitcoin will continue to function. But for economic reasons it is far better for the dev community to develop on Ethereum.

It's the only way the agenda of decentralisation can be pushed through. Far more radical things can be achieved with the Ethereum protocol regarding decentralised organisations.

Decentralisation needs to have a competitive edge against centralised systems or there will be no incentive for people to use them as opposed to centralised systems.

Bitcoin is currently failing to break through, if Ethereum has the capability to outcompete centralisation (and it does) then if Bitcoin falls by the wayside then so be it.

You cannot hide from the truth forever Bitcoin is tainted in the public perception probably permanently and the dream has died, it would take a miracle to make Bitcoin market cap go to 40 billion but I believe this is easily achievable with an Ethereum based blockchain simply due to ease of application

>>868018
https://m.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/22r641/attention_everyone_who_thinks_that_fiatleakcom_is/

Buy the dip goys

>>868034
You are fucking clueless. Again, Bitcoin is like the internet in 1990 and you are the idiot in 1990 saying the internet failed to become Facebook and twitter. The technology is GOOD ENOUGH. Give it time.

i am bitcoin man

Lol at anyone without at least 10 btc.

monero or fuck off

>>868694
LEGIT post.

>>868694
y?

so how do I get ethereum?

>>869040
Give the devs bitcoin. :^)
Not a scam brah, they just want bitcoin instead of ether because they need to fund development, not because it's a pump and dump scheme or anything like that.

>>868453
Grasping at straws

It's a currency, your analogy is weak and Bitcoin adoption is falling. Ethereum can do everything Bitcoin can, and an infinite amount of things that are impossible with Bitcoin.

>>869040

Most exchanges. It has the second highest trading volume of any cryptocurrency after Btc.

Bump

>>869319
Which exchange in particular. A website.

>>869897
kraken ETH/BTC