/biz/ - Business & Finance

Prices rise to meet the new earnings as people try to buy the same number of products.

>>8483466
It would work in some places, but in others it would make the business unprofitable or encourage automation. Trying to arbitrarily set a minimum wage across the entire economy is pretty stupid; it would make more sense to make it more industry specific.

>>8483491
this. I don't understand how socialists and commie cucks can't get this through their thick heads.

>>8483491
>Same numbers of product
That's not technically true. If the min wage workers make more money they will also spend more. They make a huge chunk of the population. I'm not saying 15$/hour works, I just think it would be almost impossible for people to not buy more.

>>8483491
this is also why universal wages would not fucking work.

>>8483557

There's a few caveats. Some prices are inelastic and as such the change in cash flow will not change their pricing accordingly. For example milk or McDonald's menu. Gas is another commodity that won't change becase as soon as the price rises, new refineries will come online.

either this >>8483491
or they automate the job more or totally i.e. less jobs. Ok someone has to maintain the system but how many systems is 1 individual responsible for?

>>8483466
forced prices in a market-based economy usually doesn't work so good

>>8483637
wow keep deluding yourself

>>8483571
>min wage is a huge part of the population
Based retard

>>8483571
>if they make more they spend more, therefore minimum wage is good

kill yourself centrist piece of shit

>To equal the purchasing
power of the minimum wage in 1968 ($10.69), the current minimum wage’s real value ($7.25)
would have to increase by $3.44 (or 47%). >Although the nominal value of the minimum wage was
increased by $5.65 (from $1.60 to $7.25) between 1968 and 2009, these legislated adjustments
did not enable the minimum wage to keep pace with the increase in consumer prices, so the real
minimum wage fell.

minimum wage should at least keep up with inflation

>>8483637

>new refineries come online

I’m an economic brainless, so excuse my stupidity, but doesn’t that create jobs and also drive competition? Aren’t these positive facets of capitalism?

>>8483466
These idiots demanding higher pay for simple jobs got replaced by kiosks. Low tier jobs that actually require at least some skill should've been the ones pushing for it. These burger slinging morons don't deserve shit except to be replaced by a computer.

>>8483683
inflation should be done away with

>>8483466
> Why would a 15$/hour minimum wage work or not work? Genuinely interested.
Why would a $100/hour minimum wage work or not work? Same answer.

Post bar attorneys typically earn $15 dollars an hour. how the fuck can McDonald's employees earn the same as legal professionals. KEKED.

>>8483571

There's a finite number of products that produced at any given time. For example if you bought milk prices would rise until more supply entered the market reach an slightly higher price.

Other products with fixed supply like cars would increase in price as more people would try to buy the same number of cars until the supply adjusted to the new economic reality.

Somethings wouldn't change like gas prices as soon as the price rose new refineries would start that would keep the price low and supply high.

>>8483688

It can drive new growth and more opportunities, most people who oppose wage increases do so because they feel that it places an undue burden on businesses who employ low skill workers. The market already has high wages in high cost of living areas. So 15/hr in LA makes perfect sense because only a tiny number of people make less than 15 USD an hour anyway. It doesn't make sense in Phoenix because cost of living is significantly lower and wages as such are lower. It's a complicated issue.

>>8483466
Won't work.
In capitalism, it's in the business' best interest to offer the highest quality product at the lowest price, while paying competitive wages. If you across the board raise minimum wage to $15, you are mandating these businesses to surrender that much more of their profits, which they aren't going to do. The only options is businesses will have to greatly increase the cost of their products to the customers to compensate the increase, or they find ways to cut their labor force down. I expect a combination of both to happen.

>>8483781

To be honest, that’s the biggest problem in the US today. The problems and needs of rural farmer in Ohio have nothing in common with that of a college student in New York, yet they both want their political stances and opinions pushed onto everyone in the country.

My state is actually getting $15/h minimum wage soon:

https://www.labor.ny.gov/workerprotection/laborstandards/workprot/minwage.shtm

All the fast food restaurants are already buying self-service ordering machines.

>>8483466
The fact of the matter is, they can pay that much because people are willing to work for that much.

Period, end of story. It's completely unskilled labor.

Once it's all roboticized, this will be a moot argument. I can't wait to not have to deal with stupid ass 17 yr old Jamal fucking up my order.

>>8483571
When people make more money they tend to save more. While its debatable it kind of comes down to rich people wanting poor people to spend all their money so it gets funneled back to them. Increasing wages may or may not result in rich people having less money and hence is greatly discouraged.

>>8483466
probably not. you see these people holding the signs? why are they not at home writing down business ideas eh? see all the time they waste doing nothing but demanding a cap limit on their potential income. absolutely fucking ludicrous.

>>8483935
>>8484027
>>8483909
>>8483737
>>8483734
>>8483698
>>8483688
>>8483683
All extremely interesting points. Where can I go to learn more?

>>8483571
>Businesses have less margin because they have to pay their employees more
>Poor people are spending more money so there is more cash flow
>Businesses can afford to raise prices because people are willing to spend more money
>$15 an hour becomes the new $8 an hour only now money is twice as worthless
>Many people suffer the consequences of inflation like depreciation of uninvested money and effective pay cuts

I don’t understand why liberals think you can eliminate the lower class by paying them more. The only thing that does is hurt the middle class

>>8484386

Always read source materials. This is a University of Washington study that observed the first phase of the wage increase rollout. Good read. Not as black and white as most pundits will have you believe.

http://www.nber.org/papers/w23532.pdf

>>8484583
wonderful, ill give it a read!

>>8484583
is there a way around the paywall?

>>8483466
Usually means people need a good 20-30% over the minimum.

the future for these kinds of people is poverty. with automation and cheaper production low-tier human labor becomes worthless. you think the rich are going to fund millions of poor people too stupid to contribute? who's going to force them?

the beauty of having money is if you don't like your countrieis tax/welfare situation, you can move, and no government is going to want to test it's rich population by forcing their hand.

>>8483571
you are dumb and you should feel bad, do us all a favor and remove yourself from the gene pool.

>>8484473
Holy shit you couldn't be any more retarded.

Half of the hourly working force making minimum wage are under 24 years old. They only represent about 2 percent of the entire working force. People making minimum wage above 24 years old represent and even smaller amount.

This isn't some economy shattering event.
Realistically the minimum wage should be 10 to 12 dollars nationwide.

>>8483688
When the government gets involved with fixing a minimum wages its in direct response to the communist central banks over printing capital and causing their own inflationary pressure that they then respond with more minimum increases to wages. A vicious cycle that places more control out of the population and into the welfare industry which the government controls outright by creating its own inflationary situation.

>>8483557

Yeah, it's not like EVERY non-burger country in the west ALREADY makes this work or anything. Fuck you people are retards.

because you would have to pay 3 times more for a burger.. not so shill now are u. Fucking commies. Low paying jobs were always meant for students to experience some bullshit before getting real life.

Oh but I forgot, american students never work, they just loan.

>>8485413

Here's a good synopsis https://www.pbs.org/newshour/economy/column-new-study-says-minimum-wage-hike-seattle-bad-low-wage-workers

>>8485459
with increased poverty = increased crime

>>8485629
Most wages prior to 1973 were measured by employers in 1/5ths. 20% usually being rent/living. 20% food clothes. 20% bills. 20% auto/transport. 20% savings. Since the switch over to the value placement system which is really just the communist distribution system under a fancy 'capitalism' friendly term in countries with a communist central bank.

>>8483466
It’s already been tried and it’s a failure, look at San Francisco you fucking commie faggot.

>>8483725
Ain't gonna happen that's how banks make money

>>8483491
Fines imposed on corporations who pass the costs onto customers instead of taking the hit to their massive profit margins

>>8485761
Those two are in a bidirectional relationship and are fed one way by shitty genes.

>>8484473
This isn't the reality and is just bullshit spread by lobbyists so the giant corporations fucking the entire nation in the ass can continue to do so

>>8485791
We're not all defeatists here Mr. Wet blanket boomer. The purpose of cryptomarines is to bring back sound money and end central planning.

>>8485782
There are countless factors for why the costs of living in San Francisco are so high and it has NOTHING to do with minimum wage
Fucking corporate boot licking faggot go suck some more jewish cock

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pUnvHnSbLdI

>>8485712
The value of a dollar loaned is higher than a dollar earned if you do the math on how over printing capital and maintaining a public credit facility tends to run contrary to each other while creating false positive economic feedback on the health of a national economy.

>why do you think the government simply has been printing their entire gdp to support their own economy for nearly 110 years. The black years are far fewer than the red ones, the red ones being the norm since 1996.

Mickey d's makes less than 1% of their revenue in net profit.

No, it wouldn't work

The economy wont ever recover unless we remove the minimum wage entirely

all these retarded high school kids need to start somewhere, no one wants to hire them for $15 an hour

>>8483466
SF min wage is currently $14/hr and will be 15/hr in july.

Universal basic income when?
In my first world country I mean, not shitty burgerland

>>8485911
Uh what

>>8483466
How can we afford to live on 15$ an hour!?

This is just the starting point and we need at least 20$ an hour by next election as the federal minimum.

So selfish and short sighted.

>>8486008
sorry it's like 50%, I was thinking of something else

>>8483466
This just hurts high school kids and unskilled minority employees. High school kids in particular. Go to your neighborhood pizza delivery joint. They probably employ 20+ high school kids working part time. They need to learn how to function in a workplace, show up on time, plan and schedule. $15/hour hurts this.

>>8486068
Actually it is hard to say. In Pittsburgh there was a time it was very easy for a high school to go out and get a good paying job in the mill. You likely couldn't make that money even after 4 years of college.

>>8485989
You already have it
It's called in work benefit because half the jobs don't pay enough for anyone to live off

1.9 million employees

x $40,000

= 76 billion

Net profit in 2017 was 2.5 billion

doesn't work

>>8486140
This is mickey d's btw

>>8485459

>you can just move
>tfw American and taxed everywhere in the world

Fuck

>>8486068
Works fine in Australia? Just have age brackets so that high school kids minimum wage is lower than an adults.

Because of the way economics works. Everyone all the sudden is making $15.00? awesome, well Milk is gonna cost $5.00 instead $2.00 because you just have so much more money now. That bread you wanted to buy? 5.50 Yogurt? Even higher. You're literally just redirecting wealth back into people higher up on the chain. And in fact more money, because they would be able to raise their prices higher than they should be for making $15 because they would be able to get away with it.

In USA where you have short border distanced people would get a job at 15-16 usd paying field and then go shopping to neighbor State with cheaper prices. Anyways, most cashiers will be replaced soon in stores and restaurants by robots.

>>8486140
McDonald's pays burger flippers $20/hr in Australia
Still turns massive profit

>>8486170
I think minimum wage in Australia is around $16 or so (I'm not exactly sure?) and yet a 2L bottle of milk costs $2.

>>8486170
Milk costs $1 in australia and minimum wage is $17.70
Find another argument that isn't total bullshit

>>8483466
not too against it i mainly just want to see what happens itd be funny

>>8486209

Don't point that out burgers will get upset they can't stuff their faces with cheap fast food anymore. I want the minimum wage to go up not for workers but so I can see these fatfucks cry when they have to pay over $10 for a single burger at Mcd's.

>>8486242
This would be a good thing anyway. Making fast food more expensive in America would definitely help with their fat problem. If suddenly more healthy eating styles are more competitor than fast food they may be more likely to switch. I strongly believe in higher taxes on fast food and other junk food, with the money used to subsidize healthy food.

>>8486170
>if we give taco bell employees 15 usd milk is gonna cost 5 usd, yogurt 5.50
>doesn't apply to GS employees
Just imagine Are you unironically autistic?
According toyour logics people would still be stuck at 1 usd per hour you absolute economic amateurlet

>>8483491
This. Thread over

>>8486170
Other way around. Wages don't increase in a communist economy unless to match the store prices. When the government runs a minimum estimate increase its based on a known costs...usually from years prior.

>yfw govt doesn't know what it costs to live yet its own unions can change their salary baseline properly to real fixed costs. Mainly because they are the source of cost increases because they enable government printing.

>>8483466
Capitalism itself is in its final stages. We'll have socialism within our lifetimes. Nearly all jobs will be fully automated. Moore's Law continues to hold, and artificial intelligence advances.

>>8483466
it's not necessarily good for the economy, but it's not going to crash it either.
as long as the country has a social safety net paying below a living wage will put the burden on the tax payers instead of employers. an indirect subsidy or sorts. is this good? hard to say.
but the point of minimum wage has never been economic. it's about dignity and ideals about standard of living. when times are bad people will work for wages that don't even pay rent. unlike businesses, people don't have the option of closing shop when revenue doesn't cover costs.

>>8486287
However americans are dying out of "desperation" and the life life expectancy is getting shorter for the first time in history. If people die earlier before their retirement they will be cheap labour for government

>>8485629
>This isn't some economy shattering event.

You're retarded, if someone originally making above min wage is now making min wage he/she will want a raise then the next person then the next person. Say someone is busting their ass working in a warehouse is making the same as a guy handing over burgers/ a waiter who already makes decent money with tips.

>>8486366
We are entering the second great depression as rates rise. Unemployment will sky rocket so will poverty. Last depression lasted 10 years and war ended it, will likely be similar this time. After that human work force are likely in large demand especially robotics and tech sector.

I would not be surprised to see large population decline in next 10 years both usa and europe

Here's the working paper. https://evans.uw.edu/sites/default/files/NBER%20Working%20Paper.pdf

>>8483466
It increases unemployment because most companies will fire employees to make up the difference and basically make the workers that they keep do twice the amount of work for a small raise that isn't even worth it. It perpetuates the slave economy and that is why it's bad.

>>8483466
This doesnt work due to inflation, prices for goods and services will always rise to meet the new higher minimum wage. Unfortunately the fight for $x of dollars will continue due to it being a useful talking point each and every election cycle. The only way to kill it is by going back to the gold standard and making the mininum wage 0, but good lord knows the bernie bros/babes would throw the biggest hissy fit ever seen due to no more of muh elasticity and deficit spending.

>>8484386
study thomas sowell.

>>8484473
Its like they dont want to understand that someone will pay that increase in prices for goods and services. Its almost as if they greatly overestimate the governments power to control people.
Its like that basic income debate. Rent in inner cities would jump up and thats that

>mfw increase of minimum wage leads to greater automation and more poverty

>>8485664
Sorry to burst your bubble but you cant compare a germany.with minimum salary to one without it

>>8485761
Not true. There are places in the world that are extremely poor, and extremely safe. Portugals south, for example.

You just parrot the narrative that african americans are committing crime cuz theyre poor. Thats not all there is to it. Its also cuz white people brought then in as slaves, "freed" them while lynching them, and now shove retarded statistics down their throat while shooting them for holding a phone.

>>8485861
Dude, your country is one giant corporation.

>>8486038
Western economies are disintegrating and only those playing a careful long game will survive.
Staring up at the state while yelling for handouts is weak

>>8486138
This cant be true, otherwise people would be starving

>>8486165
Thats so crazy to me
Its like being born into a jail but being able to walk around outside.
Just think about this. If you as a us citizen go to somalia and start fishing, you owe the us gov money.
Its funny how its always those who are convinced that they are free who actually live in a dystopia, isnt it

>>8486209
Australia is a mineral and fuel exporter so its minimum wage can easily be covered by that.

>>8487589
it isn't covered by that. everything is expensive and you are taxed to death. he got lucky with the guy mentioning milk since it's the one thing that is cheap.

>>8487474
minimum wage in't a handout. its a correction for a healthier economy. The upper class don't spend and stimulate the economy as much a those on the bottom

>>8485861
I bet you're against tariffs though because le drumpfffft did it

>>8487625
> spend, stimulate economy, Keynes
just die

>>8487625
Sorry but a state mandated minimum salary means that the difference between that minimum salary and the 'real' lowest salary, meaning the lowest pay someone would do the job for, is a handout. Its bot earned, its mandated. What do you think the minimum wage for factory work would be in your country without the minimum wage?

>Tfw some lowly chemist who fell for the non engineering stem meme
>Get paid 22 an hour working with complex machinery
>Hope to eventually go back for my Masters
>Meanwhile these niggers and lazy teens/single moms want to make an income close to mine just by flipping burgers and giving people the stink eye
I enjoy what I do but god fucking damn the entitlement of these faggots. I can only hope that when biotech booms my wage will rise as I get experience.

>>8486167
Then you're discriminating against unskilled adult labor....

>>8487765
if low level unskilled staff are paid $15 an hour how much you think a burger will be? These fast food pl;aces will want to keep the same profit therefore the price of a burger will rise accordingly. It the consumer that gets stiffed eventually

>>8483637
>Gas is another commodity that won't change becase as soon as the price rises, new refineries will come online.

Oh you sweet summer child. It's adorable hearing the clueless voices of teenagers who haven't lived even the 20 years required to have the life experience to realize how stupid you just sounded.

>>8487757
Its actually realy greedy of people swiping tables and serving drinks to demand higher pay/equal pay
I worked in a restaurant, in a grocery store, as a stableboy
Last was, by far, the most exhausting and dangerous
Thanks to mommy merkel and germoneys shit laws, i wouldve earned the same at all of those. You pay tax on min wage, dont forget that.
Know what people tend to do? Work cash in hand. Nobody, i repeat, nobody who understands anything works min salary for long. Its welfare that you pay when you buy rice, sugar, etc
A kilo of goddamn rice costs a euro or more
Go fucking fuck yourself

Why the Minimum Wage Should Be Raised
An increase in the minimum wage raises the standard of living for impoverished workers.
The minimum wage hasn't kept up with inflation. As a result, the pay of many workers, particularly those with families of three or more people, are now well below the poverty level.
Studies show graduated increases in the minimum wage have a low impact on unemployment.
Additional income would be spent by consumers and would ripple through the economy if overall budgets for salary grew under a gradual increase in the minimum wage scenario.
Increasing the minimum wage could help reduce gender- and race-based income inequality.
Government expenses for social programs aimed at the poor would potentially be reduced. This might result in slightly lower taxes for other Americans.
Slightly more revenue for the government would be generated from payroll taxes for social security.

Why the Minimum Wage Should Not Be Raised
In companies with a fixed compensation budget, an increase to the minimum wage could result in layoffs or slower hiring.
Employers might hire fewer workers in the entry-level jobs needed to begin a career.
An increase to the minimum wage would provide an incentive for employers to invest in automated processes, technology, and machinery to increase productivity rather than human resources.
Raises the incentive for companies to outsource labor to countries where minimum wage rates are lower.
A higher minimum wage could result in an increase of the high school dropout rate.
Prices might be increased to offset higher labor costs.
For small companies, already stressed owner/operators might take on more responsibility.
Wages for higher paid workers might be suppressed, and salary increases might be lower for those not impacted by a higher minimum wage.

>>8485825
Are you fucking retarded?

This will NEVER happen. No business owner is going to be complacent once they start bleeding money. Additionally, if a CEO of any publicly traded company did this, they're board would fire him on the spot! CEO's have to act in the best interest of the shareholders. If anyone of them were to do nothing to stop their company from losing millions of dollars, you bet your fucking ass he's going to get sued into the poor house and his professional career would be over.

If your that much of a brainlet to not have an understanding this very basic principle of business then kys. The world is clearly better without you.

>cuck for endless amounts of brown immigrants who will gladly move to your country and work your job for a fraction of the price
>"WTF WHY WONT YOU PAY ME MORE MR BURGERSTEIN?!"

I love how something as fucking simple as supply and demand is too complex for the mind of a leftling insect.

>>8488226
so goddamn true it hurts
>import more supply
>demand isn't changing
>wtf why can't i find a job
>wtf why aren't i getting paid more
Cucks continually cuck themselves to death, except they're trying to drag everyone else with them.

What do you mean by "work"? Raising the minimum wage has only one guranteed outcome. An increase in labor expenses for business paying below the new minimum, and an increase in income for those currently below the new min, assuming they are not laid off. Modeling the outcomes of an increase beyond the variables directly affected by a wage increase is a waste of time DESU. Hard to prove any real correlation. Economics is such a shit science.

>>8483637
>Some prices are inelastic and as such the change in cash flow will not change their pricing accordingly. For example milk or McDonald's menu.

Food and gas prices have been increasing steadily. They never remain static. Some foods appear to remain the same price, but they're merely being offered at smaller portions or lower quality.

>>8483466
>Why would a 15$/hour minimum wage work or not work?

Think backwoods Louisiana versus LA or NYC. Why would they be paid the same? Federal minimum wage is retarded.

Here in Ontario it just went to $14 an hour and nothing bad happened and people are happy. Americans just want to feel better than those economically beneath them so they can feel successful. Kek

>>8487616
Good point. Most other goods are only so expensive in australia because we are an island that needs to import and heavy taxes on literally everything
A bottle of bourbon costing $40 and a 20g pouch of tobacco costing $30 has noting to do with our $17 minimum wage