/biz/ - Business & Finance

Dubs

The ability to write well. I am horrified, and have been for years, at the extent to which college graduates are apparently unable to write a clear, grammatically correct sentence.

>>843058
Exactly this.

Also, related to this: the ability to talk clearly and concisely, in normal English, without jargon or imprecise terms.

>>843058
Second this.
>>843252
Agree with this, but not as strongly as with writing.

I'd say a lot of people entering from non-STEM, non-finance backgrounds are nowhere near numerate enough. Statistical and probabilistic reasoning go a long way.

>>843054
Initiative....holy shit the new work force is completely devoid of this. New employees never ever take the initiative out of pure laziness or our fear that they will fuck it up and get fired. You literally have to give point by point instructions on what to do. Employers love a employee that doesn't need to be watched every second of the day, and employers will gauge this ability to work alone off your initiative.

>>843058
>>843252
Yup another thing, brevity. With a lot of new employees entering the workforce they always love to bring their education a long with them so they will write some of the most convoluted shit i have ever read just so they can fit some fancy ass word so they can seem that much smarter. Employers love concise memos that dont waste time, they do not like it when it takes 15 minutes to read about a simple 5 minute problem.

>>843058
This is definitely the #1 in my book

>>843058
And when I say millenials suck, people go buttmad.

>>843274
I... what? What the fuck does that have to do with millennials

I see older people write god-awful emails more often than people in their 20's

>>843274
Millennials have their problems sure, but the older generations have the bigger problem still. That problem is illiteracy, most of them dont even know the differences between internet browsers (Even knowing there are different internet browsers is a bonus now days for them) So ye the millennials are retarded but at least they will still be relevant in the workforce while still being retarded,compared to that knowledgeable older gentleman being let go because he cant work out those *complicated* excel formulas.

>>843274
>>843303
Sorry I meant to conclude with not being able to keep up with the constant technological advances in the job industry makes a lot of people effectively illiterate in their profession.

>>843058
You should try working for a company in a country where English is not the first language, but the company has decided that English is the corporate language.

The result is at times horrendous, at times hilarious. Sometimes both.

>>843265
So...
>new employee takes initiative
>fucks up and get fired since he isn't fully trained

You see how this could be a bad thing right?

>>843316
Thats why people like you get fired, because you are to retarded to see their are multiple things to do within your own skill set. Sure you can go to that crane and just start picking shit up, or you can sweep up the nails around your workplace and tidy up. Simple stuff like cleaning something up before being told. Obviously i am taking it to the most basic level, since you seem to have taken it to the extreme. You easily apply this a lot of different scenarios, and yes you can take the initiative to do reckless stupid shit that could endanger your career, or you can take the initiative to show your dedication and work ethic so your bosses see your in a more respectable /promotable light. Up to you brah.

>>843325
MIKE ROWE SHILL FUCK OFF

I do what is asked of me and not an iota more

>>843316
I'm with you. So many employers have a laundry list of expected and preferred qualifications for entry level positions, it's easy to get stuck not knowing what to do or what is expected of you.

From personal experience, there have been times where I have taken the initiative to learn something or try something and was told not to, and times where I asked for help or instruction, only to be told I lacked initiative.

>>843326
Thats the funny thing you can still take initiative within what is being told. Why would you want to defer from the directed orders? The only reason to do that is to overstep the bounds of your boss and try to be a kiss ass. Both cases someone will end up hating you. But then if you follow the task like a mindless drone then you will stay in that task. But if you auctally want to advance in the workplace you will need to show initiative in some areas of your work or else they will keep you in that position. Employers love people who follow the letter of the rule. So they will keep that person in that position because that person is a constant, they dont under perform by any means but in contrast they also dont over perform by any standard too. So I guess your right, only show initiative when you want to advance in the workplace but hey fuck the man and everything he represents just dont be mad when you keep getting burned by the fry oil in the back micdicks.

>>843339
It's much easier to advance by switching companies than appealing to higher-ups in the same company

Why people stay at the same company for over three years is beyond me

>>843325
Depends on the workplace. I have worked plenty of places that don't reward behavior like that. Either nobody notices or they will take advantage of you and treat you like a work horse. I have found that when employers notice and reward behavior, employees take note and work harder. If my boss is going to give me extra work because he knows I will work harder to get it all done... why would I show initiative? Most companies just want to suck as much work out of you while paying as little as possible.

>>843333
>>843345
The only thing that could come to mind is relevance to your job. You might have been trying to learn something that was not relative to your job or possibly you are there for such a short amount of time the time needed to train you in such things would exceed your contract. Or maybe the people you were trying to learn from know what you need to know and what you dont need to know, and that might have been the latter. Usually its wise to build a solid foundation of your basic skillsets then seek to acquire skills outside of your own. Barring all of that, their are bad jobs in the world where a employer will seek to fuck you on every turn. In that case its a lose scenario because your betting against the house right.
>>843342
Is it so bad to appeal to higherups in a short period of time? There have been cases where employees have left to other companies to gain other skill sets that they couldnt acquire in their original starting company, just to come back to the start company to get paid 3x their original amount. Appealing to higher ups in your industry is ALWAYS GOOD to think other wise is retarded, who wouldnt want a network to fall back when times get tough? Which they will, every industry suffers every few years. Thats what I mean, people who stay in the job for 15 years expecting that promotion arent the ones taking initiative are they? They are the ones who will always be promoted sideways rather then upwards. Never advancing only stagnating.

>>843346
>Is it so bad to appeal to higherups in a short period of time?

It's not a "bad" thing but it is very unlikely to increase your salary, in my experience

>>843315
Indeed. These companies should leave translation to qualified professionals, and concentrate on their actual skills instead.

CEOs who snub their mother tongue and speak exclusively English (to show they're "citizens of the world") don't seem to realize how weird they sound, too:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXwJ3Z2HKTo

>and for ultimate keks, here's the famous video of billionaire Emilio Botin speaking English:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWZO4uU9jIw

>>843345
You work for your own rewards not other people. I am working hard to justify that extra pay raise that i will ask of in addition to what they usually offer, i am working to meet that sales quota, i am working to make my job easier and therefore my work life easier. Work smarter not harder. I am not a kiss ass where I will break my back for my boss, neither should you be. If you see your job can be easier by any measure why not make it so? Fuck your other coworkers or anyone else its your back that your saving and its your life that your making easier. And if the boss takes notice, let him take notice and let em compliment you to making the job more efficient.

Oh please dont mistake "work smarter, not harder" for taking shortcuts. No this method is to find another route to your destination not to cut corners. So many new employees will cut corners just to make a job easier and more efficient without the realization that the corners being cut are potentially hazardous or outright dangerous to coworkers.

>>843350
Thats your fault then, if you cannot justify a raise even though you know you put in the time and effort then you do not really deserve a raise do you? A company will not willingly hand you extra money. Its a fight/struggle within itself and if you fail that fight or come unprepared then you really really do not deserve that raise. If you were smart you could articulate all your work and all your efficiencies into a concise argument as to why you deserve that raise. But it goes back to sometimes their are bad employers, but realize this that you shouldnt make that the golden rule of employers.

>>843361
>>843350
You need to treat everywork place as a fresh start and shake off any prejudice you had from any past industries. There are cases where shining examples of employees have been working for years without a raise, and when asked they just responded with "well my old workplace my boss was prick and never gave out raises. In fact it almost seemed he would fire a person if they ask"

See? a opportunity lost because their old prick was a asshole, the employer would have been happy to give a raise had they asked but they didnt so they arent about to be paid extra dollar.

I am not trying to talk down by any means, i am sharing my personal experiences. Take it all with a grain of salt.

>>843365
The thing is, it seems like the prevailing attitude in many industries is not to give out significant raises based on performance anymore. You might get like 2-3 percent more but that is negligible. Thus, it is easier to raise one's salary by changing companies, since you do basically "start over"

>>843369
Which industry is this? Well that really is the industry standard now days to have a yearly 2-3% raise but in reality thats just adjusting for inflation so thats not a raise for you and the company doesnt consider it a raise thats how insignificant it is. Everything is relative, what may work for corporate culture may be disastrous for a workplace on site or w.e. But curious what industry do you work in?

>>843388
IT

>>843058
I can type sentences that read just fine, however when it comes to putting things on paper I can't write for shit.

I was born left handed, but in pre-k education was forced to switch to my right hand by a teacher, and after years of special training programs the public school system forced me to go through my writing still looks like scribbles.
I've tried using my left hand but it just looks even worse now.

>>843390
Thats a hard field to look for reasons for raises. But not impossible. See the problem with IT is that the older generations know shit about it, so you really have to dumb down all the technical shit for them to understand. One of the worst fields to ask for a raise is IT support, nothing ever becomes a problem until it is a problem. As in they see a IT guy whos getting paid a good amount and they have not had one major IT problem the whole year so why should they pay him more? Well you have to relate all your stuff back to the core of the business, or at the very least relate it to profits. You can say you performed regular maintenance on the server to optimize the customer shopping experience on the web store. See? That makes it so you are a key component in the profit schemes, without you it would seem that shoppers aren't inclined to purchase stuff. But really that sentence makes no fucking sense in the technical field of IT but it makes perfect sense to the guy whos giving you the raise. Its harder to ask for raises in non profit departments but it isnt impossible. You just have to relate it back to the core of the business your working in. Just gotta show em the way.

>>843404
I was sent to remedial classes because my writing was so bad, didnt help. So it stayed that way throughout highschool and some college years. But I realized after high school I was my own man and felt that yes I have been reinforced all my bad writing habits but i also realize that i am fully capable human being able to learn and or redevelop certain skills. So I bought a book with some quotes (Marcus mediatations or w.e) and rewrote a quote for a whole page, each line being as precise as i can. And it worked, you just have to put some time into it and you will see the reward in itself. But it isnt some half assed thing you could attempt to do with no actual effort.

>>843446
I don't know if I need to do that at this point.

Now the only reason I write is usually just short scribblings or notes for myself (I can read my own writing or at least remember what I meant to say).

I can type at 85wpm accounting for mistakes so if I need to communicate in paper typing is much better anyway.

>>843469
Ye as long as you have a good signature and can spell your name with just as much grace then you should be fine, but numbers is something that is important all life round though.

>>843482
Actually on numbers I am pretty bad. I do need to practice that.

>>843265
>expecting wage-slaves to have initiative
How entitled of you. If they had initiative they wouldn't be working for you. You as the owner needs to be the motivating force.

>>843054
>what are the most underrated skills most employees lack
All of the skills I posses!

>>843514
No I dont. I have 20 of you neets to laugh at out the door, and then i have 20 more people who will actually work for a living. Meh wage-slaves pays.

FYI
You be googles bitch every time you do a captcha, so please submit. Its childish not to.

>>843361
>If you see your job can be easier by any measure why not make it so?
Same reason construction workers everywhere work deliberately slow - if someone's too effective, they start expecting more. You should work at a moderate pace, not too fast, not too slow. Just enough to keep shit going, but not to where you're putting in more effort than most people in your workplace. Getting to know whoever is meant to promote you, is a better way than working hard. Hard work doesn't get you promoted, self-promotion does.

>>843469
http://typing-speed-test.aoeu.eu

This is now a typing speed thread.

>>843563
that score is shit. I got 108 with no words wrong on 10fastfingers

In fact ill do a few right now and post my best

>>843054
From a upper class restaurant owner perspective:
1. Manners and hospitality, I had actually apprentice servers (usually those are 15-20 years old) that greeted guests with what I would translate to: "yo dude wazhaaap, bro" or take orders saying "yea watcha fatty wanna orda?"
2. University educated tards that need a temp job because they can't find a normal job that are not able to follow simple 1,2,3 instructions, can't read a simple manual nor can write down a simple order correct.
>my tip is: If you can't do that return your degree.
3. Punctuality, it's not that hard to show up on time
4. Remember simple daily tasks and routines.

>>843054
Being able to ask questions.

I don't know where this idea comes from that asking questions makes you seem stupid. If you don't know something, how else are you going to learn unless you ask? Resorting to trial and error on the job when a simple question could solve the problem is a waste of time and money and I see it happen so often it makes me want to vomit.

Any kind of boss or supervisor that discourages asking questions is a retard, too.

>>843563
367.

Man, I have a lot of typos.

I need to werk on that.

>>843054
Maturity.
It shouldn't be labelled a skill, 20 years ago it wasn't, but now it is- thanks to the spastics and degenerates who crept out of the fucking sewers onto a desk near YOU.

>>843356

Do you think accent is that important?

Is being someone who speaks both English and another language like native speaker something that could make a difference?

>>843054
1) showing up the fuck on time
2) doing what you're hired to do without bitching about it. everyone's a snowflake I get it now clean the toilet
3) put your fucking phone down when you're on the clock
4) typing, communicating like a goddamn adult.
5) already said but initiative is not around anymore if you're under the age of 25.

>>843586
>In fact ill do a few right now and post my best
>ill do a few
Get a load of this faggot. Well alrighty then.

>>843612
It's fast enough. I don't even have a proper setting for my hands (I don't put them the way you're supposed to), but I manage.

99% of typos I get on these typing tests are reading errors, I read a word and put it in the "to write"-memory bus (however the brain works), and it comes out as the wrong version of the word. Also, sometimes shorter words can be completed too fast, and a letter missed (continuing before I have a chance to fix it).

If you put you WPM on your resume and are not applying for a job as typist you're autistic

>>843563
god damnit I cant get bast 50 words per minute no how hard i try

>>843563

ok.

>>843563
How good are people who do transcriptions for a living?

>>843054
Honestly?
Talking to customers with respect.
Due to laws I can't even fire my staff who call clients by their first name uninvited.
Kids have no respect at all these days

>>845200

Literally what fucking century do you live in... customers are always called by their first name these days

>>843563

Better than 97%? Damn, I'm actually good at something? Well, I spent the last 10 years of my life on the computer, so I guess I'd hope so.

>>845235
Presumably the ones with the servants that actually serve, e.g. every other century.

>Punctuality
>Respect/Manners
>Privileged attitudes
>Initiative definitely

The easiest thing you can do at your job regardless of what it is. Show up on time. People that show up 8 minutes before a shift or 12 minutes before an important meeting. Pure ludicrous.

Respect and proper manners go a long way. Yes sir, no sir. Especially over the phone. I love when I have an asshole over the phone, and I show up in person to their office an hour or two later to see their boss for something. If you had just given me politeness over the phone to begin with. I would have never mentioned anything to your boss later on.

This is mostly for restaurant workers, but I have assholes in my building who think because they lease moderately expensive office space in our building. That they can act like a self-entitled prick to building maintenance, security and everyone else. You are not Dan Bilzarian. You don't come from royalty. Leave that attitude at home. Your mother will not give into your whims at our place of business.

Initiative is definitely lacking on everyone these days. You give them a task to do. They finish it before the end of the day, and than 75 minutes later they come to see you and ask what to do next.

Wow there are a LOT of people in this thread discouraging people from showing initiative and going above and beyond.

Forbes Magazine recently published an article quantifying that, in a ten year window, people who quit their job every two years will earn, on average, twice as much as people who keep the same employer.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/cameronkeng/2014/06/22/employees-that-stay-in-companies-longer-than-2-years-get-paid-50-less/

But while this article looked at the stats, it didn't look at the game. The only way to get a promotion is to become marketable. The only way to become marketable, is to advance your skillset.

So do more. Do more than is expected of you.

Stop looking at it like you're overworked and underpaid and start looking at it like, your boss is PAYING you to receive an education so you can walk out on his ass when you're ready.

Initiative often translates to quantifiable perks, like better bonuses and merit increases (even though merit increases rarely if ever exceed 5%).

Initiative also translates to less quantifiable perks, such as favorotism. If you're the guy who always documents his colleagues software patches because everyone else is too busy and you need to call in sick on a Monday because you got drunk on a Sunday, the chances are remarkably higher that your boss will excuse you with a chuckle. People with initiative get away with intermittently coming in late and leaving early. Their input in meetings is valued more. They got invited to lunch by senior leaders more ("oh don't worry about the check, Billy, I've got this..")

***
And the hilarious thing is, the entire time you're taking initiative to do more and enjoying all these perks, you're only doing it so you can pad your resume well enough to leave for a 10-20% salary hike in 18-36 months.

As a Senior Business Intelligence leader, I would say the one thing that far too many developers neglect to consider, is testing.

Too much code is submitted for code review or even deployment that is insufficiently tested ... or not tested at all.

Collaboration is also lacking.

Say you try to merge your changes back into main and you get a notification that Jimmy the dude who works on the other side of the water fountain has modified the same code base as you.

Soooooo many developers will just merge changes and submit a request for code review.

Dude. First of all. Did you retest your shit with Jimmy's shit? Did you test the rollback? Did you *really* test the rollback, after executing the test?

And even if you did .. well, that's great. Buy why was Jimmy touching the same shit you were? Are you not the LEAST bit curious? Or paranoid?

Get up off your ass and go talk to Jimmy.

***
Testing.
Collaboration.
Communication.

Sorely lacking.

>>843563
kek

>>845300
>Senior Business Intelligence leader
oh god, you are one of THOSE people. Do you even know how to code?

>>845300

The bottom 3 are very true.

I highly recommend people join a fraternity in college for this reason. You really have to work as unit to make yourselves respected on campus else shit goes to hell. It requires people to look past their differences, carry their weight, and to communicate.

Those skills really don't get taught in the classroom. Unless there's a group project - which people fucking hate, then you really do not get any opportunities to work on those skills.

2 + 2 can be greater than 4 when you know how to work together and have some synergy.

>communication
>time management
>illiterate with computers

Better than I expected given I don't know how to type with my fingers on the ASDF keys or whatever it was.

how do i learn to type with all of my fingers

>>845769
>>illiterate with computers
Is this really a problem in 2015?

>>845701
> Do you even know how to code?

Oh my heavens, no

>>845829
Yes it is, i was working as a janitor in a resort, i always had to help my supervisor write e-mails out and shit, a lot of people in my department were 35+ but even the couple people 18-22 really don't know any basic computer skill, which is why i would always do it i am 22 and i'm no expert but habing a computer at an early age sure helped, i ended up leaving the job.

But even at a low level entry a lot of people regardless of age or backtound lack the other ywo points I mentioned

>>845828
This

>>843563
>http://typing-speed-test.aoeu.eu
84 WPM with like 4-6 fingers (thumb for space bar)

kek

>>843920
~90

>>843058
>tfw English major masterrace

>>845266
>People that show up 8 minutes before a shift or 12 minutes before an important meeting. Pure ludicrous.

are you saying that's not early enough

because I get to work about 5 minutes before I'm supposed to clock in and I'm earlier than most people

>>845848
You were a janitor and you knew more about computers than them?

>>843054

charm.

probably the single most important business skill.

>>845293
This guy gets it. Initiative isn't about breaking your back for no fucking reason other than you *might* get a pat on the back down the line. Initiative is maximizing your time on the clock to make yourself a more valuable asset. You can learn a hell of a lot more useful skills OTJ than you can in a classroom.

>>843563

>>847303
How's McDonald's working out for you?

Salesmanship. Fortunately, I joined the retail industry at a time when salesmanship was still a critical skill which underpinned the success of all retail enterprises at that time. So I learned salesmanship skills from some of the best in the business. But over the ensuing 40 years since I first received that training, I have noticed a marked decline in this skill, not just in sales people ... but in everyone.

It seems that as we have become more reliant on hits, clicks and conversion rates, we have lost the ability to persuade people to buy things, to accept or agree to a position or to deliver a persuasive presentation that creates interest in a new idea, product or method i.e. salesmanship.

I don't care who you are or what you do, you need to know how to sell. For starters, to sell yourself, then to persuade others to your point of view, to win people over to support your cause or to manufacture consent for your planned course of actions. All these outcomes require salesmanship and most employees have forgotten the art or have never been taught it.