/biz/ - Business & Finance

I had a high income family member who was at one time spending an estimated 30k per year on starbucks. And yes I'm fucking serious.

Didn't end up poor, but he is an upper middle class hyper consumer instead of a truely rich person.

Some people are just born into poverty. It's not fair, but that's life.

With that said, the behaviors that cause poverty compound daily.

Most people in poverty tend to double down on it with a victim mentality to avoid the fact that they need to make radical changes in their education, spending habits, health, and even the company they keep.

My ex gf used to always complain and even cry about never having any money. She didn't seem to think anything of putting more on the card for cigarettes and a $600 Iphone with 4g though. She was even offered a $50 scholarship for school if she wrote a one page feel good paper about her experiences during nursing school. She didn't do it because she said it wasn't worth her time.

Then you have dumb shit like what >>839844 said. Even I'm guilty of stopping by the gas station a few times a week and eating out too much.

Being middle class can be a chore, but being in complete poverty is a choice created by habits

>>839854
When in poverty and you're surrounded by those in poverty, you're not really exposed as much to good habits.

>>839858

Like I said, it's a system that compounds daily on you.

The only way to fix it is to become aware of it and work towards fixing it at every angle

>>839844
How?

>>839865
have you been there lately?

last time I was there, back in 2011, a bagel and grande coffee was like fuckin $18

>>839828

If you're in a first world country, it's self inflicted. There's still enough opportunities out there.

I like to look at it this way. There's a big difference between being poor and being broke. Being broke means having no money, but still seeking ways to improve yourself and doing things for mutual benefit to others. Broke people don't stay without money for long (unless they choose to live ascetically). Poor people talk a lot but do nothing. "Woe is me!" they cry, while receiving benefits from the government and filling their minds with daytime television.

Quick case in point: My friend/maybe soon-to-be ex-friend.

>Friend gets Master's Degree...in Visual Arts
>Is now looking for a job in a down economy (Australia)
>Hasn't worked a job in 5-6 years, won't do volunteer work while unemployed
>Doesn't have a license, keeps saying he's working on it
>Doesn't go out meeting new people, struggles to admit he's wrong, etc.
>Has never been overseas, can't understand why I put myself in difficult situations
>Will spend large sums of money on things that won't help his mental, physical or fiscal health (ie a $2,000 gaming laptop...financed).

It kills me inside to see him in a funk, but it's his own damn fault. The best thing he can do is recognize that so that he can move on from it.

>>839865

Last time I went there on a date, I got a hot chocolate (it was 8pm) and she got some retarded complicated drink, and we split a rice krispy square. It was like $20 total for it

>>839865
>how
other posters commented on how pricey it's gotten, especially with the food items.

My story goes back to the middle of the last decade. 2005 maybe.

Here is how.
>wake up early
>go to starbucks.
>large coffee and wale sized latte for him
>same for wife
>large latte or whatever for each of his 2 kids (yeah he was the guy)
So that's 6 items before 6 am. That order is at least 30 bucks, likely more
>8 AM
>repeate of above before the kids get dropped at school
>go to work
>hit starbucks at least a few times through the day
>come home at 4
>6 more coffees

This was an every day deal, and it was worse on weekends. And it does not count his stay at home wife's coffee buying either.

Also not accounted for here is his late night coffee. He was a surgeon and would sometimes get called out for ER surgery at weird times.

Plus he would buy coffee for anyone who was around him.

>>839828
People literally go shopping for fun.

People drive around for fun.

People buy cheap things to save money, only to have it break immediately.

People have pets.

People eat out constantly.

People don't know how to have fun without spending money.

People have expensive hobbies that do not lead to financial gains.

People buy cars upgrade cars for no reason.

People pay for porn, music, movies.

People buy the biggest house they can pay for monthly.

People are fucking idiots, and you'll do well not to fucking become one.

>>839897
>People drive around for fun

It's more cost effective entertainment than clubbing, drinking, going to movies, amusement parks, etc.

I can go out every night and be entertained for <$5 worth of gasoline.

I agree with the rest of those points though.

>>839908
Tickets and accidents happen, the more you drive the greater the chance they happen.

But yes, i suppose it is cheaper than alternatives.

>>839928
>No fun
>Not ever
>Bury me with my money down to the cent

>>839908
It's actually entertaining for you to drive around at night? Damn you're probably okay with living in a city and breathing in fumes 16/7.

>>839933

No one here is against having fun and enjoying your life.

We just fucking hate people that spend beyond their means and then hold occupy protests and say that fast food workers need $15/hour because they can't buy more rims and starbucks without a "living wage"

>>839933
When you regularly do something, you get extreme diminishing returns on how "fun" it actually is.

A coffee every month is great, but when you're having coffee several times a day it's just a habit and you hardly even think about it. I've had a pretty similar experience with all other "fun" things.

>find entertainment that's free (concerts in park, movies, go skinny dipping at state park)
>401k first, everything else second
>never listen to poorfags , especially high earning poorfags

>>839844
$85 a day on starbucks? if that even possible? how much does he weigh and whats his height?

>>840025

If he and his wife each went there twice a day, then $85 a day for two people's drinks and snack is very feasible.

You'd have to be fucking retarded to do that by yourself though

>>839897
>People eat out constantly.

This is where most of my expenses are. I eat excessively (I probably have an eating disorder) but I am extremely frugal in every other way.

>>840036
I don't spend shit other than eating out.
Every Monday and Wednesday I'll spend ~5$ at a McDonalds. Tuesdays and Thursdays I stop by a Vietnamese or Korean restaurant and spend 9-11$
At the end of the month my food expenses are almost 400$. But shit, can't help it. Japchae and vermicelli are so good.

>>839874
>Friend gets Master's Degree...in Visual Arts
You could have just stopped there, it told the full story.

>>839897
>People pay for porn, music, movies.
So your advocating for people to steal?

>>839844
Is he aware that you can buy your own coffee machine, means, milk, etc..?

>>840092
Yes.

>>840095
Why?

Capital P Poverty is always self inflicted. Being poor is just something you work your way out of.

Like a lot of people pointed out here, it is mostly self inflicted. People have been using Starbucks as an example of frivolous spending, but apple products, man. Apple products. It's incredible how many people are out there who buy a new iPad, iPod, iPhone, and now iWatch every fucking year. Every year they buy the new one. Every fucking year. And then there are people who buy new clothes every summer and every winter-- sometimes even throwing out last year's clothes.

But even if you don't spend money like a stupid asshole, there are people who grow up in poor families and they have no idea how to finance. There are people out there who don't think debt is anything serious, so long as they keep making the minimum payment, and they don't realize that they're fucking themselves over in the long run. There are stores on /o/ of people paying $60k for a Toyota because of their shit credit. And then there are people who grow up thinking it's perfectly normal to live paycheck-to-paycheck, just barely scraping by, hoping they don't have any medical expenses because if they do it spells ruin. They don't know that their life doesn't have to be like that.

>>839828
That picture is an idiotic strawman. How many poor people wear $1200 suits but need welfare because their McJob doesn't pay the rent?

Inb4 some cherrypicked shit about people using food stamps to buy seafood (how dare they! don't they know the should eat only rice and canned beans?) or anecdotes

>>840007
>MFW local state pars charge entry, verizon already has me on warning for piracy, and last 2 local concerts charged entry.

>>839897
>People buy the biggest house they can pay for monthly.

Fuck man, that means buying a piece of shit house in my neighborhood, and I make 70k. Fingers crossed for a crash soon.

> (how dare they! don't they know the should eat only rice and canned beans?)
I know you mean to be sarcastic, but I literally believe this. We're paying for their survival, not enjoyment. We outright hand things to them in exchange for absolutely nothing because we care for their survival and want to give them a chance to do better in the future, their feelings or personal tastes don't mean a damn thing in the regards to the charity network that I was never given the option to opt out of.

>>840099
because if you do it right, there is no risk.

>>840092
There's loads of free porn and music, at the very least. For music, Youtube and SoundCloud can get you pretty far if you're not fussy.

I realized poverty is most often self-induced, and even when it's not, people refuse to work back up. I was homeless on and off (mostly on) for the past 2 years, and most of the homeless around me were unemployable by every standard (PTSD/Insane, 50+yo, couldn't pass drug screen to save their life) or simply wanted everyone to give them the golden ticket.

I got myself a Pell Grant with maximum fund because I had no income and no one could claim me as I wasn't being supported in 2014. I'm going to my local community college this fall and working for a degree. Sure, I had to pay out of pocket to get in and get classes as the grant hasn't been given out yet, but I'm getting that money back 4 times just with the first distribution, and I'm getting myself educated for a job that isn't dead end on day one. Also learned real damn quick the difference between need and want.

No one cares, and I know this, but I used to be the beggar and the complainer until life slapped the bullshit out of me, and ever since then, none of it made any goddamn sense.

>>840121
>Fingers crossed for a crash soon.
Oh, it'll happen. The forest is growing too large. The purging fire is inevitable.

>New data from the U.S. Census Bureau show the rate of homeownership for those in the millennial generation has fallen to the lowest level in recently recorded history.

>Mortgage rates are at historical lows, yet rising home prices and tightened mortgage standards, combined with still-challenging state of employment and the fact that millennials are paying off huge amounts of student debt, have discouraged many young Americans that otherwise would be buying homes, according to Dean Baker, co-director of the Center for Economic and Policy Research in Washington, D.C.

>Even with near record-low interest rates, just 38% of millennials owned homes in 2012, according to CoreLogic, compared with nearly 52% of the same age group in 1980, when mortgage rates were in the double digits.

>As Zillow noted, millennials pay on average 30% of their income for rent, up from 23% for similarly aged Americans in 1979. Rents are on the rise for many reasons, including a preference among Millennials to rent instead of buy.

>The difficulty in getting millennials to take the plunge in the entry-level market will also have consequences down the road, says Tom Hutchens senior vice president of sales and marketing of AngelOak Mortgage Solutions in Atlanta. “There won’t be as many move-up buyers,” he said.

you all are fucking crazy cheap fucks, stop being obsessed with saving money and enjoy using your money because by the time you'll be rich you'll be nearly dead.

>>840168
I did, and the first time things started to go sour, I had to sell all my shit just to make ends meet, and even then I still lived on the streets for a solid while.

>>839828

I'd say 60% is self-inflicted. People that stick with a low paying job because they are afraid to try any new job just because they are comfortable with the job or feel like without them the company will go under. I'd also say another good piece is spending more on things they need and buying things they don't need.

The biggest piece is just simply not saving anything.

>>840168
Cool basic bitch attitude mate, however: >>839996

Being content consistently is a lot better than going broke and/or homeless because you were busy having fun when you were young.

>>840168

Says the tit that probably sells blood to buy his morning coffee.

There is strong empirical evidence that the stresses of being poor can effectively lower cognitive function and lead to behavoirs and choices that perpetuate poverty.

>>839828
Growing up poor as fuck is the most infuriating thing I've ever experienced. My dad had a good job until he got sick and couldn't work. He and my mom broke up and he was living off of social security and going into rehab until he could get strong enough to work again. My mom on the other hand was a lazy fuck housewife who literally works 2 days a week and is content with poverty. I genuinely don't understand how someone could be happy with being poor, that's probably my greatest fear after college.

>>840110

It's just the new temporarily embarrassed millionaire story for 4channers. They know they're too awkward to be CEOs, so they think if they glorify their autistic lifestyle as frugality, they'll gain the respect and wealth they think they deserve.

>>840376
Nevermind that 15 dollar jeans/45 dollar pants aren't the cheapest you can find... Or that cheap ass wal mart shoes are a huge money sink. Or that clothes are a pretty small % of expenses for most men.

>>840500
this
clothes are one of the smallest expenses

>>839897
>People eat out constantly.
.....your mom :^)

>>839828

where the fuck do you get shoes for 32 bucks. seriously. that doesn't even exist.

I think maintaining a good relationship with your parents is an important factor. Even if they aren't well off either it can be very helpful to at least have a place to stay if you are starting off with nothing.

Unfortunately many people squander this in their teenage years.

>>840650

Scarcity ends up fucking with the brains ability to deal with long-term planning. The best option would be to be self-conscious of this and try to plan better.

http://harvardmagazine.com/2015/05/the-science-of-scarcity
>That’s a phenomenon well-documented by psychologists: if the mind is focused on one thing, other abilities and skills—attention, self-control, and long-term planning—often suffer. Like a computer running multiple programs, Mullainathan and Shafir explain, our mental processors begin to slow down. We don’t lose any inherent capacities, just the ability to access the full complement ordinarily available for use.
>But what’s most striking—and in some circles, controversial—about their work is not what they reveal about the effects of scarcity. It’s their assertion that scarcity affects anyone in its grip. Their argument: qualities often considered part of someone’s basic character—impulsive behavior, poor performance in school, poor financial decisions—may in fact be the products of a pervasive feeling of scarcity. And when that feeling is constant, as it is for people mired in poverty, it captures and compromises the mind.
>This is one of scarcity’s most insidious effects, they argue: creating mindsets that rarely consider long-term best interests. “To put it bluntly,” says Mullainathan, “if I made you poor tomorrow, you’d probably start behaving in many of the same ways we associate with poor people.” And just like many poor people, he adds, you’d likely get stuck in the scarcity trap.

>>839844
you see, I've never understood stuff like that.
I make decent money, and as far as basic living expenses go, the amount is pretty negligible, however as my work (lawyer) often involves a lot of client meetings, etc. and actually interacting with people, i feel kind of obligated to dress well, so I spend quite a bit on designer clothes (suits and stuff, not nigger items) and have a nice watch, although we're talking like 20k maximum and it's not as if i buy new designer clothes annually or anything, it was just a one time purchase.

All the rest i save up or invest in a local restaurant i own.

>>840650
Coscto has $20 shoes. Pretty decent too.

>>840650

target
walmart
kmart
ross

and so forth

>>840671
> spending 20k on clothes to get ones with Mr. Designer Bro's brand

You'd have gotten better for 1/10 the money by going to a pro tailor in a third-world country. Custom clothes > mass-made, even with a Hugo Boss stamp.

>>840729
>>840735
They probably look bad. Shoes are the one thing that really show their value. I cheap wear 5 $ shirts, 15 $ pants with my 900 $ shoes (I didn't pay anywhere near that price).

Being poor is the individuals fault, BUT there is the poverty trap which makes it hard for someone raised in poverty to overcome. But most middle class people in America choose to be poor in favor of consumerism.

I max 6 figures, live at my parents house, pack my lunches, take the bus, and don't spend much on buying "things" or doing "entertainment".

Yet I still feel like I live an extremely comfortable and fun life, yet I spend so much less. Spending time with those close to you, and enjoying the little luxuries in life can be very rewarding.

>>839874
>masters in visual arts
>why don't you do what I do and because I'm better
He got a useless masters, but you sound like total dickcheese. You're going to be one miserable old fuck. I take it people already hate you, but pretend to like you.

>>840107
Most people want debt for reason I have no idea to explain. They want debt for a car, house, didlos, etc. But in reality you can buy a used car that runs better than a brand new car. A house is not investment, this was the mantra before 1998. Too many youngfaggots today don't know that. A house is a house. Just buy some foreclosed home with minimal upkeep. Or buy an RV just live on the road. I know some richfags who live with just an RV and a PO box for mail. Debt is not good, but the US government said otherwise because its also in massive debt. I see niggers driving luxury brand name cars while they live in shitholes. Too many people pretend to be rich, while the rich pretend to be poor. Its funny how life works. If you're in your 20s, then you shouldn't be buying a house or car. You're too early in your career and anything can happen. You have no money, and saving up money doesn't mean anything yet. You need to be secure in stocks, bonds, funds, etc.

>>840805
>If you're in your 20s, then you shouldn't be buying a house or car.
Or you could "house hack" and buy either a SFH or multi family and rent out the other units or rooms. That way your government subsidized mortgage is getting paid down by others.

Also why would you not buy a used economy Japanese car? Unless you live in a major city with decent public transit, it is dumb to not have a car in most American cities.

>>840823
I did say its better you have a used car. A used economy class Japanese car is better. Most major Americans cities have public transits and these days ride share is common. Also letting the government subsidized your mortgage means you can't afford it. Just buy a foreclosed home for peanuts. A lot of young kids these days don't know real estate wasn't meant to be an investment.

>>840832
Mortgages are inherently subsidized because they are tax deductible. Buying a foreclosed property is risky for most people and can end up costing more.

Best actions are to reduce your daily spending as much as possible. Be ascetic with your expenses. Really think hard on strategies to reduce you expenses as this is much easier to do than increasing your income. If you have a job, work as many hours as you can but go to school, take grants. A big thing that keeps people in poverty is that any sort of serious emergency puts them into debt because they don't save during the good times. This is why keeping a positive cash flow is absolutely vital. Always try to find hustles, landscaping, scrap metal collecting etc.

Game the system. Don't be scared to shop at thrift stores, apply for welfare, going to school can be a great source of income if you take advantage of grants and scholarships.

For your monthly expenses, pool resources as much as you can. Live in a crowded apartment with 8 other people, carpool, use wireshark to steal your neighbors wi-fi, steal toilet paper from the local school etc.

Lie about how much money you have. Other poor people will try to take advantage of you. It's a good feeling though to bail a friend out of jail or loan 100 bucks to someone but don't do such a thing too often.

The number one worst thing about poverty and a big part of the poverty trap is being insecure in your lifestyle. The first step isn't to think about income, it's to think about security so you're in a position where your not destroyed by disaster. If you don't have 2-3 grand to your name at least, then a car wreck can mean losing your job and falling into the poverty spiral.

Source, I've lived in poverty for years and about 3 years ago I got a minimum wage fast food job. Now I'm wealthier than all my friends, going to school and when troubles hit I have the money to afford paying for things like fixing a car, etc. I'm still poor but I have security in my life and that's worth more to peace of mind than any amount comfort.

>>840888
Oh and also, saving large sums of money(2-3 grand is the minimum where this starts providing results) allows you to bring down your long term expenses by for example buying a cheap car outright rather than paying interest on a loan to get a used car. Avoid rent-to-own, loans, anything like that.

The inability to pay in lump sums upfront is a big part of what makes poor peoples expenses so high.

>>840805
The stocks and bonds advice isn't really good advice for people truly in poverty. You need liquid money for emergencies and getting a 2-5 grand amount is something that will take about 4-8 months for a person on a poverty level income to accomplish and only if they live frugally.

A lot of advice for poor people doesn't really understand the finances of poverty. Growing your money is something for when you have money to grow. Gaining security for disaster is the absolute most important first step to escaping the poverty trap. Since you need to keep your monthly and daily expenses as low as possible, insurance and warranties will eat up your money too much. The first step to escaping poverty is always getting enough liquid assets to survive disaster so you're no longer living paycheck to paycheck. For disaster money, the assets need to be something you can instantly get anytime of day.

You want free money for life. Learn to run a business successfully. Most business owners in commercial sales are willing to owner finance out a down payment, when they retire.

The Small business association is authorized 20M$ at like 2 points over prime to anyone with a decent business plan to take over an existing business.

If you've got a couple hundred bucks you can file a new company. If you file a new company this entity has access to the full spectrum of lending within 2-3 years of seasoning. For Amex a seasoned business is authorized a $50k dollar card at the first call center manager. get a few of those and you can start what ever fucking real business you want, using the power of a name.

>>840919
Most poor people want to stay in poverty. I grew up poor, and I know saving up money is easy. The problem is that poor people want to look rich with designer clothes, car, tv, etc. These days medical emergencies won't bankrupt you. Most are cover by Obamacare or cheap private insurance company. You need three months worth of saving for emergencies. Then you're set to invest in mutual funds and stocks. Or a ROTH IRA. The step to get out of poverty in America is easy, the problem is that people want to stay where they are. They blame others for their problems which I saw a lot growing up. Blacks are notorious for this behavior. They blame the man, popo, government, etc for their mistakes.

>>840877
I agree with you because a mortgage is cheaper than rent in the long run. It depends on the person on who buys foreclosed homes. They can be run down or brand new.

>>841022
>Blacks are notorious for this behavior.
You have apparently never lived in a trailer park in the South. or South Boston.

>>840107

It's amazing how financing used to be for necessities and only if you could afford it in the long run turn into everyone signing up for a huge credit line and spending money they don't have.

Before we'd have students take out a reasonable amount of loans for a worthy degree. Now we have kids dumping 6 figures to study history.

Before we'd have someone take out a loan on a new fuel friendly, low cost maintenance car for $20k. Now we have people buying Audis, BMWs, and Lexus thinking they're rich and luxurious. Shit they'll lease the damn thing and never own it.

I don't think I want to understand how their thinking works. Debt was suppose to finance smart purchases/investments but now it just finances consumerism. People want to live in the now too much and don't see that there's no light at the end of the tunnel.

I'm not saying you have to jew out every penny and save 95% of your income but jesus christ have some self control.

>>839874
>gaming laptop

Absolutely disgusting. And you still call him a friend?

>>840092
rape a bitch, listen to her music, and make a movie of it.

I've made and I've lost and I'm currently trying to make again. Some poster mentioned education and role models. From my experience that's true.

I grew up poor. My mom would get her paycheck; pay rent, fill her car with gas, buy groceries, then decide which utility wouldn't get turned off that month. How do you learn a bout money when that's your life? What roll model do you have for what success looks like? The biggest success I knew growing up was a guy who retired from the military.

Spent my whole life not knowing what to do, and still I somehow made it. Going back to what I didn't know, I made sure my bills were paid first, then I read. All the wrong books. Then I lost it all.

Now I'm trying to rebuild. With better knowledge (hopefully). But I'm behind the power curve again, trying to catch up. When you're younger and have fewer liabilities, it's easier to go big with less. But you suffer from lack of knowledge.

>>840107
>Like a lot of people pointed out here, it is mostly self inflicted

No its not. Yes, the MAJORITY of poor people you interact with in your socioeconomic bubble, it will be self inflicted. Anyone that can afford credit for an iDevice and knows multiple people who went to college.

For the *majority* of poor people, even in America they didn't stand a fucking chance. Imagine being born a shitskin to a crackhead mom with a non existant dad and being raised by other shitskin kids 3-4 years older than you that also came from crackhead moms.

Imagine being born out in the boonies in Alabama where your pappy was a farmer, and your pappy's pappy was a farmer - and your "high school" doesn't even have a teacher who knows more than 5th grade math.

There are a ton of people born out there with the odds stacked HEAVY against them. These people aren't poor because they spend $50/day at Starbucks on credit, they aren't poor because they buy Apple products.

They were born with nothing, educated with nothing and will most likely die with nothing. Even if the opportunity arose to make something, their environment never prepared them, and they wouldn't even know what to do with it.

There's a stark difference between the idiots on the border of lower middle class who buy a $300 TV from rent-a-center at 9001% markup, and the hopeless pieces of shit that never had a chance anyways.

>>841022
>three months of saving
When I worked at k-mart years ago I made 8.50 an hour and averaged around $820 a month. The rent in the small house I lived with two roommates was $350 after utilities. Not even taking my day to day spending I only had $470 to work with. At the end of the month I usually had $200-300 left over and I'm sure if I lived a bit more frugal I'd have more but that is nowhere near enough.

It'd take about 10 months have myself 3 grand sitting in the back as security funds. People get paid a lot more nowadays and I only really had to worry about myself I imagine parents (especially single-member) with children have it a lot more rough. They don't really have the luxury to even save money even if they denied their child any form of luxury.

Of course what you say is absolutely true but there are people that don't do it that can't get out of poverty.

>>839874
>gaming latptop

>>841111
Look I have sympathy for children growing up in poor situations but it is a fact of life that some have a better starting point than others. You seem to be making a lot of excuses.

My family were farmers for probably thousands of years. That didn't stop them from trying to make a better life for themselves. I'm not a historian but I doubt it was much easier to overcome poverty in the past.

America is a pretty great place if you have ambition. My grandma was orphaned and had to work in coal mine since a child while taking care of her siblings while living in a third world shit hole. Lets face it, even homeless people who are not handicap, live pretty good in the U.S.

>>839858
>>839861
Absolutely it took me a very long time to realize my parents being poor was more than just circumstance it was lazyness.

>>840025
He was buying for him, and his wife and sometimes his kids,

But yeah he was an enormously fat fuck

>>841062
>leasing
A lease is useful when you have a company or rarely drive a car. But I rather have a low maintenance care for 20k then a overpriced luxury care that needs constant maintenance. But I agree financing is just financing consumerism. Everyone wants to be rich.

>>841095
>When you're younger and have fewer liabilities, it's easier to go big with less. But you suffer from lack of knowledge.
That's how financal advisers get people's money. If you're smart you invest very conservatively. TIPS is one. Make sure it goes for your retirement.

>>840357
Nice causation you fucking idiot

FUCK OFF LIBERAL RETARDS

>>841122
Those that try but can't are the ones who I feel sorry for, and they deserve the help to get out. Single parents have it the worse, and I like hiring them because they are usually your best workers. Ideally it should take you three months but try for a year realistically. You' sound like you're doing well, and that's respectable. Too many Americans are living way beyond their means. If you start early for your retirment/savings then when its time to cash you'll know you did the right thing. No such thing as getting rich quickly. TIPS, treasury insurance protected stocks aka treasury bonds are super safe.

>>841201
https://www.treasurydirect.gov/indiv/products/prod_tips_glance.htm

it is feasible for most poor people to get out of poverty by putting in a herculean effort and persisting for years but most don't due to psychological reasons

>>841198
??? That looks like the least liberal thing I've ever seen anyone actually say.

>Poor people become stupid and are literally lesser people.

It's modern right wing as fuck, and I'm all for it.

>>841217
>become

>>839897
People still drive around for fun? I thought that was what they did in the 60's.

To give you guys some perspective on poverty, I'm currently working at McDonalds as a summer job before I head back to school. Here are some comments I've heard from one of my managers.

>"I used my tax return to buy a $900 computer."
>"You don't need to go to school to succeed."
>"I make $600 every 2 weeks, that’s plenty of money."

I used to think some of these comments were funny because of how ridiculous they were but now I feel sad for them.

>>839988
This post right here

The Occupy Wall Street protest had to b one of the dumbest things I have ever seen. Most of those kids were from suburbia USA that lived comfy lives off of their parents who have made their living indirectly from Wal Street. Now the educated ones are working for corporate America, laughing about the time they occupied Wal Street.

I grew up pretty poor and i'd like to chime in.


People have no clue how to manage their money. I was like that too for a long time and still kind of am. Getting better. My point is though i feel like a lot of bad spending behavior is learned from the people around you; combined with the natural feeling of wanting to be better/look better/act better than your peers causes most people to never get a grip.

This year i've went from being homeless to having an office job twice, twice in a year. I'm talking grungy grungy begging for food homeless in areas where i know nobody for months at a time. None of that pussy living in your car/girlfriends/couch surfing shit. Not the first or second time i've been homeless in that fashion either.

The second i got that first paycheck and had rent covered i went straight to the bars, or straight clothing shopping, basically buying shit i didn't need. Basically living paycheck to paycheck even though i didn't have to. Exactly the type of behavior you guys are all so hateful about.

You would think growing up poor and being homeless would change my view on money and how to spend it but it didn't. It was walking to work in a fucking suit with zero dollars and no money for lunch and instead of going out with my co-workers politely declining and eating the free office food.

After i got a grip and started to fly a little straighter i still went out to eat every once in a while and occasionally drank a bit too much. But now i have 10k invested in stocks and a decent job.

I'm probably not above average IQ, it just takes discipline and motivation. Some people tat are born retarded and poor are probably screwed, but they are in the minority.

With enough cognitive behavioral therapy (or whatever you want to call the flavor of the year attitude training) you can at least have a good life for you and your loved ones.

>>840063
400$ at the end of the month for eating habits is not that bad. Its cheap when you first start cooking your meals but the cost starts to add up as you get more experience.
Sometimes eating out can b cheaper. There's a Thai food place not far from my house that is delicious and gives you huge servings, it's cheaper for me to go their than it is to make my own Thai dinner. You can however buy lots of carbs for cheap, but protein, especially beef, is very expensive right now.

>>841197
The problem is not knowing any better. How do you know which advice to take? What will conservatively make you money? What is a giant ass rape in the making?

Back when the economy was humming along so well the advice was, "Leverage every bit of credit you have. You'll make it up on the back end." And for a while I did. How was I supposed to know what shittier level advice that was?

Now that I have a family, I can't take risks like I did when I was young. I no longer have disposable time to turn my hobbies (such as they are) into businesses. And I can't just take off and hope they succeed. To much depending on my wageslave status now.

>>841239
We live in a very synthetic environment and most people have developed some consumerist habits in one form or another. I try to manage my vices by allowing some amount of spending on them but I pay myself first. Maximizing income, minimizing expenses helps too. Shop at the cheap grocery store, buy cheaper alcohol, walk more. I also stopped paying for internet and got a cheap cell plan with 20g of data. Saves me $50 a month and gets me off the computer more

>>839854
>Some people are just born into poverty. It's not fair, but that's life
This.

>>841230
>I make 600 dollars every two weeks
Holy shit that's poverty wages. That fucker is going to have a shitty middle life.
>You don't need to go to school to succeed
This is what all people who don't go to college believe. Every college graduate makes three times what the average high school grad makes by the time they're 40.
Your manager sounds like he's black or Hispanic. They dwell in poverty.
>>841235
This. Most occupers were rich kids with Macs, Iphones, driving cars, living in expensive apartments etc. They wanted the "60s experience. The whole 15$ dollar minimum wage will skyrocket the income difference between college and high school graduates. This will make a lot of unskilled jobs become automated.

>>839897
Why do I love spending money so much?

>>840793

What people think of me is not really something I think about. People's thoughts and emotions are their choice, and I'm not going to take that away from them. If I did then I would be disempowering them; they're adults, their feelings are their responsibility.

Why so angry though?

>>841245
One thing I've noticed is that a lot of my usual grocers only sell meat in either giant chunks, or heavily watered down slices which ups both the work required and how expensive the meat is despite the shit quality. I've started going to some of the Asian specific markets, namely Korean and Vietnamese ones. You can buy a lb of wafer thin pork for 4$ that lasts me a week. Throw it in rice, rice noodles, stir fry. It's great and literally takes a minute to cook in oil since it's so thin.
I pity anyone living in a city without places they can buy that shit. I'm in Austin right now and this place is flooded with Asians, especially around the Lamar region and that faux-china town haha.

>>841703
i gotta look into asian stores for my meats more often. got a portugese sausage that was pretty great, thin cut meats would be a nice change

>>841703
Yeah, and stewing cuts used to be super cheap, now they're the same price as chuck, at least in Canada. Wings are expensive too, and if there is a sale you're lucky to even get some, it's mostly a bait and switch.

>>841737
To stay more on topic, I find people will complain about their buying power(I don't make enough $$$) but they won't be careful about what they buy. Building wealth is just as much about spending little as it is about maximizing income.

>>841703

I am 5 minutes away from the Lamar chinatown.

Do you happen to know any 3D artists / animators in town looking for work?

>>840650
wait are you kidding me? I was looking at that thinking, who spends £30 on shoes?

I spend £10 for a pair of shoes.

And you're joking: >>840656 that £30 can't buy you anything?

The area I live in has 30% youth unemployment and no matter how little Is spend and how frugal I am, there is no available employment.

For most large cities (such as london, there's little excuse) but without investment in jobs or infrastructure in the local area, there will be no opportunities for people to better themselves through work.

>>839828
If you make above the 'living wage' as calculated by this tool: http://livingwage.mit.edu/

You have no reason to fucking complain.

>>841703
Chinks are the kings of playing hard ball. They can get the lowest price on anything

>>840117
Stream, don't download. I've never gotten any warnings for streaming, which I do every day. As I see it, I am outsourcing the piracy risk to places like Putlocker who will get the cease and desist warnings for my bad behavior.

>>840805
>I see niggers driving luxury brand name cars while they live in shitholes
I used to live next to a large Northern Californian Indian reservation and this shit is true. I've never seen so many people in one small town who both accept extreme poverty, live in a delapo mobile home and have the nicest new king cab truck that 35k can buy...

>>841147
>I'm not a historian but I doubt it was much easier to overcome poverty in the past.

Definitely way harder in the past.

http://visualeconomics.creditloan.com/media/uploads/sites/4/2009/12/spending-breakdown.png

Here is a quick and dirty graph showing the percentages of income that each expenditure took. Notice in 1901, food and housing took 60-70% of all your income to pay for. Now, on average, it only represents perhaps 30-40% of your income.

In an Econ History course, a professor basically laid out an argument that back in the serf era, the production of food was so inefficient that it basically took 100% of your income per year just to get food and pay your landlord.

The fact that people can work part time minimum wage and still have money for iJunk and McCrap makes this point for you pretty well.

>>841741
It might even be more about minimizing spending. Consider 1 dollar saved versus 1 extra dollar earned at work. You've already paid the taxes on that one dollar you saved. That new dollar earned ends up being taxed. This means that one dollar saved is probably worth more like 1.30 earned.

>>841022
This is at least partly true.

If we drew a graph of standard of living vs effort, it would start with a modest peak, fall, and then rise exponentially. The initial little peak or island is the sweet-spot of poverty created by welfare, finance, and consumerism. To achieve higher heights you have to jump into the cold waters of hard work and education and swim across the channel to financial security and prosperity. There are entire demographics of people who have convinced themselves that they can't swim, or that the land of money is a myth.

>>840126
Fucking this

>>841060
He didn't exclude white people, but in black america the behaviour and culture is practically subsidized by the gov't

I still don't understand the reasoning behind all that debt free debate.
In Europe(most countries) when you are entering the working force regardless of if you went to uni or not you are debt free so saying that you are debt free at 24 is something that should be that way.

If you have any debt at 24 you made some bad choices in your life.

>>842423
In finland you get a student loan from the state with euribor + 0.5%. Pretty much everyone takes it. I took it to invest it all.

>>839828
Look on tv and look at black people (the poeple most often complaining about being poor), everything about the way they dress and act says "I'm dangerous" the image they're going for is "criminal"
It's mostly self inflicted

>>840877
Only the interest is tax deductible.

>>841111
>even in America they didn't stand a fucking chance.
I grew up in the cleveland area and most of the people who stayed poor were either drug addicts or alcoholics. There are countless programs as well as financial assistance for college for them to get out of poverty.

>>842567

That guy doesn't know what he's talking about. He says "shitskin" to mask his liberalness but still takes the classic point of view.

Farmers actually make a lot of money for doing jack shit (subsidized by the government quite a bit).

Black people (other than Native Americans) have the most opportunities to go to college for free.

>>840650
>tfw huge size 14 feet
Shoe prices anal rape me.

>>842587

iktf bro

>tfw you find shoes for $100 and are happy because that's actually cheap for that size.

>>839887

Actually sounds like a pretty cool guy... he's probably so engulfed in people who are glad to have him around that he rarely even worries about not maximizing the potential of his great salary. He's just living his life, doing what he loves to do and helping (and saving the lives of) others in the process. Everything isn't about financial gains in life... this man and his family will never starve, he has a vital skillset so he will never be out of work.

>>839844
that's a little over $80 a day

on starbucks?

were they eating the beans for every meal?

>>842423
Not in the US. If you go to a shitty state school, get a scholarship to cover tuition, and work part-time all through college, you probably owe 20k-30k by the time you're out.

>>840131

This is actually interesting to me. How did you end up homeless?

>>841610
You're dodging the issue. Your level of socialization is critically low. See a psychologist - investing in mental health has long-term benefits.

>>840063
Japchae is so easy to make though. You can marinate the meat the night before (and you can get the meat counter at your grocery store to cut it as thin as you need) and the noodles take about 10 minutes to cook, then you just toss in whatever veg and meat, drizzle in sesame oil, garnish with scallions, et voila.

>>842982

I don't base my self-worth on other people's opinions of me. That you find that important says a lot about your self-confidence. Don't know why you're struggling to understand that.

>>841323
To be fair tradesmen can make a very decent living, especially if they start their own business hiring Mexicans after say 10-15 years working.

Painters, plumbers, electricians, metalworkers, machinists, landscapers, etc

>>841225
>>841198
no seriously its true. People who are poor suffer from the stress and do shit that pushes them farther in.

If you have ever been in a stressful situation you should know it fucks you up. Like just before a big performance. Well the same happens when people are poor, the constant stress of payments in the mail, telephone calls and other stuff burns them out. Im not saying that it acquits them of any guilt it is just that people in deep debt usually fuck up even worse.

>>841111
You didn't disprove anything that has been said ITT, you just spouted liberal bullshit. Yeah, if your mom did drugs of any kind while pregnant then you probably are fucked, but otherwise you have the whole fucking Internet to teach you to git gud with money. I don't buy it, I think most poor people that don't have some sort of disorder are just fucking stupid.

>>842584
If no one pushes you you wont take those opportunities. I care about my children and would push them if they got an opportunity. But if I was an addict that was looking for a still functioning vein I wouldnt do that.

That said I dont know how well those programs try to involve the parents.

>>842722
Avoiding debt isn't that hard in college tbh. I'm a year into getting a 2 year diploma at a technical university in the deep south. I work 20 hours at a minimum wage mcjob, get grants and scholarships because of my grades, and going to school nets me a yearly profit of 5 grand.

As long as you work hard, take school seriously, etc. you can get over a 3.0 GPA. If you choose going to a college that's within your means, that'll pay for it, maybe even make it cover working part time rather than full time at your mcjob. If you get over a 3.5 GPA then you can start turning a tidy profit from going to school.

Man, I'm indecisive on what to study, I'm going to community college and all these degrees get at most a $70k average salary which you'd have to bust your ass to get a pay raise.

Meanwhile if I become a cop or a firefighter I'll get 100k guaranteed in 5 years. What's the point?

>>839828

>Please give me an excuse to complain about people I know

I just realized what faggots you all are. There is a thin veneer of topical discussion here regarding what poverty is but for the most part you're all just doing the same thing you always do - bitch and whine and share stories about poor people you know who are oh so beneath you.

Not your blog.

>>841610
You seem really autistic and like the type of person who would make something up for attention and to feel better about himself.

>>842982
Not saying mental health isn't critical, but psychologists really are a waste of time and money. They're useless professionals really

>>842736
Sorry for the late response.
Long story short, my entire military family believes in the "learn everything the hard way" style of teaching. They essentially said "first month is free. Get a job and pay for rent every month after or you will be kicked out." Well, being 18 with no previous work experience in California means you are literally less employable than the custodian's shit.

A boomer decided to give me a blind shot with employment starting $10/hr, and I'm currently making $22.50/hr because he is impressed with how dedicated to working a millennial is.

>>842587
>tfw size 16 men
I wish there was a clown shoe depot around me that didn't charge me $70+ per sneaker, and don't even get me started on the tag on dress shoes.

Barring genetics, health, education, and location, it's about 50/50 after we're 18 on whether the individual is the cause of poverty.

Genetics - Can't control with what's been given to you. Although avoiding carcinogens should avoid cancer.

Health - If you got fucked up by a drunk driver or some shit happens and you're in the US, good fucking luck coming out of it able and healthy.

Education - Public schools are funded by municipalities. The wealthier the 'hood, te better the school (generally). Bad schools like my alma mater are dropout factories and shouldn't be allowed to operate.

Location - If you're born in a poor as shit country, you really can't control that. Same if you were born in a place that errupts into a civil war. Shit sux.

>>841217

i think it's liberal because it takes the "it's not their fault, you'd be like that too!" approach

>>840650

I just spent $5 on a very lightly worn pair of Adidas in exactly my size from my local thrift store. You just have to look around a little.

>>84184

You can't work part time minimum wage and still buy apple products and fast food, at least not in Seattle.

20 hours / week (part time) @ $10/hour = $200/week which is $800 a month.

Most apartments here cost $900 a month. You'd be lucky to get a shared house where you pay $400-500, then you have utilities and food which take up the majority of what you have left. Then figure in ANY other expense.

I'm not saying that there aren't people with low incomes who make shitty decisions about purchasing, but the idea that you can still make tons of luxurious purchases (with the implication that they're leeching off of society in the process w/ gov checks etc) on that low of an income is ridiculous.

>>839897
literally this

im glad my that my father taught me how to save money even tho we where upper class concidering where we lived here is one of the things he taught me

>men/boys in general buy shit so they can impress girls, learn the arts of first impressions instead of being flashy like a peacuck
>buy second hand merchendise or feamarket off the counter clothing, because basically its the same shit sold in different aestetically designed rooms
>learn how to cook because its much more tasty to make something from your own work than to eat it from some noisy plastic bag
>buy things that can later in life earn you some money, like books, arts, skillsets

>mfw 2009 rolls in
[BOOM]
the market crashes, the family biz gets destroyed, everyone gets pushed down a class or two down. We maintain basically the same wealth because all those investments payed off

>>840650
shoes are the one thing you should spend money on since anything under 100 dollars is guaranteed to be trash that breaks in under a year

50 dollar shoes that last 1 year
100 dollar shoes that last 3 years

do the math

>>839897
There's living within your means and being smart with your money, and then there's living like a fucking miser. Yeah when you die your bank account might be bigger, but if you don't enjoy life then what's the point?

>>845971

>and then there's living like a fucking miser.

Playing financial offense (having a big salary) is fine, but financial defense (controlling your expenses) is absolutely crucial to asset accumulation.

You let your investment snowball grow big enough, you create a self-sustaining portfolio for the rest of your life and your children's lives.

All the things listed in the post you quoted may seem inconsequential, but when added together into a consumerist lifestyle, they lead to people living paycheck-to-paycheck instead of growing their assets.

Go ask a person who controlled their expenses and retired at 35 just much they're enjoying life.

>>841111
>Just read how Abraham Lincoln was a literally who, uneducated grocer then educated himself to be literate as fuck and eventually President of the United States
>mfw reading this

It's really about self-determination, not origins

>>840150
>Doesn't acknowledge that while rates are near zero, house prices are through the fucking roof.
It doesn't matter how much financing you get. Getting saddled with a 30 year mortgage for a house valued at three to five times what its actual value should be is just financial insanity.

>>839928
I'm 50 years old and have never gotten a single ticket in my life.

And I'm a truck driver.

>>839928
>lol, police pull you over for no reason and give you tickets for no reason
>what are you gonna do?

I really wish people could learn to not drive like they are the only ones that matter on the road. I've had to actively avoid people that would have driven straight into me more times than I've started my car, which is fucking bullshit.

>>843540
20 hours a week at a minimum wage job, after taxes, is about 6 grand per year. If your living expenses are 1k/year, then you're either a fuelless robot or a fucking liar.

>>843699
>cop or firefighter
>100k

You have been lied to.

>>846124
No really

>>846155
Keep in mind that those jobs are a lot more dangerous as well, depending on where you live.

>>839828
>to what extent is poverty self-inflicted?

Poverty is about 95% a behavioral problem, and 5% bad luck.

>what practical actions can be taken to hedge against it?

Don't be born in some shit hole country.
Pay attention in school and do your work.
Don't party too much.
Don't get knocked up, or knock someone up.
Don't hang around with losers.
Don't get your ass thrown in jail.
Work hard.
Emulate successful people.
Save, don't spend all your money on stupid shit.

>>846723

Seriously I've always felt that if you were born in America then it would be pretty hard to fuck things up unless you were born in a real shit hole town with no more than 1000 people.

>>841810
Dude, you need to get out of that area.

I was like you once. Small town boy in rural England. No jobs bar the local McDonald's which I applied to a dozen times unsuccessfully (eventually got it with a connection - I needed a connection for bloody McDonald's!). I went to every single store in the town and neighbouring ones looking for work too. Nothing.

Anyway, I moved to London and now I'm in a very well paid job (for a 19 year old with only A levels).

Don't stay in a dead town. Your opportunities are limited but you don't have to remain there.

>>839928
Spent a few years driving for a living. Only a single ticket.

>>841060
You have a problem with reality? Even within the Black culture this is acknowledged as a typically common mindset.

>>846803
Talking to my southern mates at uni:
"Yeah, hopefully i'll get a job at a fish factory, if i'm lucky."

>>840168
Or you end up in the middle of your life, unable to get your kids a good education, unable to keep your wife happy because constantly in financial trouble, get divorced and end up living in a shithole trailer/ one bedroom apartment.

Or you could learn how to live cheap when you're young, get roomates, buy goodwill furniture, ride around in some dull used car instead of that brand new fancy truck and compound each little bit of money you saved over time so that when wealth actually matters you have it.

>>839828
>tfw 500 dollar sneakers
>there are niggas ITT RIGHT NOW who don't appreciate craftsmanship, fine leather, and mire's from people in the know about your upper echelon footwear

all these lower middle class kids itt acting as if they were born into poverty

>>841060
I don't see many white trailer trash showing off their new designer clothing. They usually spend all their money on their 13 kids and 29 cousins.

Oddly enough I saw a show on meth and when this trailer trash guy became the 'meth kingpin' of the Louisiana/lower alabama region he still just bought more trailers, shitty property and a few trucks

>>839828
>what practical actions
don't spend more than you make
if you have to use credit (which you should for financial reasons later in life) pay it off monthly and don't let it accumulate.
automate most of the processes so your money is automatically invested in useful ways
have a 401k (better than nothing and most companies give free money to do it)
don't bet stupid with money

I think that is everything you need to know.

Is there even a point to opening a savings account? It seems like a way to just store money, but money sitting around does literally nothing right? I'm thinking about opening a savings account with Well's Fargo.

Please help

To a large extent. My cousin is half a year older than me and yet 100% less financially responsible.

>1 year ago

>She used to pull in £16k (almost $25k). Has a partner who pulls in his fair share too.
>Lived with her parents, who would pay her phone bill, insurance and make big purchases for her.
>Cycled through 3-4 cars in a couple of years
>Paid nothing in board to her parents.
>Would complain she was broke 1-2 weeks before payday

Compared to myself at that time
>Working minimum wage (~£10k or $16k)
>Live with parents who charged £50 board a week
>Saved about half of my paycheck each week.

>Now

>She's looking to get a house on account of the child she now has
>Child has wardrobes full of clothes for each 3 month stage in his life
>She's more broke than ever, literally riding on the coattails of her dad's salary.
>The moment she moves into a house, she'll crumble or get further financial aid from her dad

Despite the bad position I'm in at the moment (£22k job, just about making ends meet in my own home as a single tenant but siphoning money off for savings where possible), I still feel I'll be in a better position in the coming years.

>>846937
It amazes me how you have to have some credit in the US to be able to get a bigger loan later on. It's a flawed system, but banks just got you by the balls.

>>847129

It's supposed to be a system where people prove they can be reasonably trusted with credit.

The biggest contributer to the Great Recession was banks loosening their standards and giving mortgages to individuals who couldn't handle debt and defaulted at a massive rate.

>>847006

It's completely liquid cash that isn't exposed if your debit card attached to your checking account gets compromised.

Also, they used to have much better interest rates.

>>840773
What designer? /fa/ here, curious

>>839828
this picture is stupid as fuck.
never buy garbage shoes, they fuck up your feet, look awful and tear down in a week.

and have you really ever seen a poor nigger with a $1200 suit?

cost-efficient outfit for the guy on the right would be more like:
>H&M t-shirt - $3
>H&M jeans - $15
>Decent quality leather shoes - $130

>>848341
You're getting ripped off.

I buy shoes for $30 max every time and they last a year per a pair and haven't fucked up my feet.

I understand spending $130 on shoes, its a good choice but not at all essential or the more common way to go.

>>840650
>>840656
>>840729
>>841810
Morons.

Buy army boots. They last for ever and you can march dozens upon dozens of miles on them and never even get blisters. You can work in them, you can wear them to semi-formal shit, provided you pull down your trousers.

>>839867
Still, that's over $80 a day and a coffee there is only $5.00 or so. It's still a huge waste of money but that doesn't seem right.

>>840099
No need to steal, you don't actually NEED all those things.

>>847118
>>Child has wardrobes full of clothes for each 3 month stage in his life
That's normal for any kid under 8 buddy.

>>840650