/biz/ - Business & Finance

Freezing breaks cells but whatever its your money

>>8314904
>freeze me here take my money
>kk we freeze you good sir, we best cheapest freezers

Why do this? No-one has any incentive to wake you up even if they could. If anything they'll use you for cooling and burn the fat afterwards.

New tech is coming out all the time.

Y comb backed. Mind backups.


https://www.technologyreview.com/s/610456/a-startup-is-pitching-a-mind-uploading-service-that-is-100-percent-fatal/

it doesn't work faggot

>>8314946
they remove the water from your cells and replace it with a glycerol-based chemical mixture to avoid that

>>8314965
there are serious companies in this industry, and each new frozen pacient is publicy announced in their website, etc... so i´ts not like they can just dispose everything and get away with it

about incentive, science will take us there naturally

>>8314985
today it doesn´t, but it will

bump for eternal life

i never freeze!

ill become a robot and buy as much crypto as I can and become rich and powerful!

>>8314904

>implying he can freeze and just end up in the future where eveything will be ok

you know chances are there will be a new eco system and your body will instantly get damaged as soon as you leave the cryogenics container.

Also keep in mind, the future is bionics with cloud computing for your brain. Your pathetic body is useless in the future

t. deathlet can't accept natural process in life and will devote all resources to fighting it while not living while having the chance

>>8315162
>they remove the water from your cells and replace it with a glycerol-based chemical mixture to avoid that

Do you have any clue about the current technology and what they are doing?

To successfully "freeze" someone you need the following:
>they have to be frozen almost instantly, slow freezing damages the cells
>they have to have a non-toxic cryoprotectarant reach every cell in the body

Neither of these are properly done in todays cryogeneics. The first one is possible with current tech. You can quick freeze using magnetic fields. The second one, they often use glycerol or glycerin based substances, which are generally toxic and damage tissue. They just don't have the substance needed to work. Lastly no one has any clue on how to protect every cell in the body with cryoprotectarnt quickly enough.

Basically all they would be able to do in the future is clone you using your dna. Your brain tissue will be too damaged.

You don't know to what you wake up to
You can't handle it bro!!

>be in heaven, hanging out with God and Jesus
>get unfrozen and revived back to earth
>barred from heaven for doing demonic necromancy

>>8315666

>>8315666
impressive

>>8315560
i didn´t dig too much into the tech, but what seems impossible today can pretty much be common in the future, you also don´t know that

imagine someone talking about the benefits of internet in 1500, this is as crazy as someone talking about being resurrected, science will get us there

>>8315666
checked
ok, so which coin will moon next on binance?

>>8315666
oh fuck...checkmate freezefags

>>8315666
oh lawd

>>8315666

>>8315666

I mean wouldn't you die though even if your brain is frozen, would it just be like as if someone exactly the same as you now had your body? :thinking:

>>8315666
KEK. No freeze for me.

You can't put a soul back into a body.

>>8315918
are you still the same person that went to sleep last night, and woke up this morning?

>>8314904
Thanks but I want to die.

>>8315666
theme trips are best

>>8315529
this, who the fuck wants to live forever? i don't even want to live past 65

>>8315958
doesn't answer my question. Doesn't your consciousness disapear completely? Not sure if that happens in sleep

>>8314904
If you're interested in cryogenics, checkout SENS.org - rejuvenation biotech that will go hand-in-hand with cryogenics, or prevent the need to, at least from death caused by age-related disease.

Aubrey de Grey (chief scientist at SENS) supports and endorses crynoics:
http://alcor.org/Library/videos/degrey2006.html

And Vitalik donated $2m to SENS. I think a lot of cyberpunks are banking on some kind of longevity tech becoming a reality.

>>8316036
That's the point. You have no way of knowing that you are the same you that went to sleep last night, so there is no point worrying about it.

>>8314904
Op how much do you pay these guys? Surely whatever you pay won’t be enough for them to run electricity, staff, research, rent, etc for hundreds of years. Won’t they run out of space to put frozen corpses in their building?

>>8314904
When you die you're reborn instantly.

>>8315820
All I'm saying is cryo today is a waste of money and does not work.

I'm sure people sell dna storage where you can spit in a jar or something and they can store it, so they can clone you in the future or something. Be a lot cheaper to do (store dna) and cloning tech actually works!

>>8316036
>>8316086
That's the continuity problem. We sense we are the same person based on a sense of continuity from moment-to-moment and day-to-day, but if there is a sudden shift of the neurophysiology, who's to say your consciousness will "continue"

That's why gradual rejuvenative therapies applied to our neurophysiology over time, much like how our biology operates, might be a promising longevity option.

>>8316086
>cucking my body for some clone of myself

>>8316176
pic related
Mind uploading may be a much more challenging solution, because of the continuity problem

>>8315666
>hanging out with God and Jesus
>666

my sides

>>8315666
Oh
Nice

>>8315666

>>8316176
Absolutely, rejuvenation is far suporior to cryo! I think the main point of cryo is just to get far enough into the future for better technologies to have developed, since there are no real options atm

>>8316156
You have 500 vacation years per lifetime.

>>8315666
If we sacrifice some virgin in honor of Satan can we beat the current bear market?

>>8316306
no

dying is for losers

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C25qzDhGLx8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GoJsr4IwCm4

>>8315666
Confirmed. Satan admits that life extension will bring you eternal misery.

>>8316201
Just make it 99.99% the same, like a copy not a transfer.

>copy
That's the problem; there is a possibility that a near-perfect copy of the neural model could spawn an entirely separate consciousness.
But how does one "transfer" such a complex model without taking a snapshot or copy of it?

Literally forking yourself lol

>>8315666

>>8316751
for >>8316682
not to say it couldn't work, but I'd definitely not stake my life of consciousness transference, unless there was no other option. Kind of like cryogenics in that sense

>>8315666
PRAISE KEK, GOD AND JESUS

>>8316751
Look at real life. There is no such thing as a transfer. Computers don't cut and paste, they copy, then delete the original.

>>8314904
I literally agree with this completely 100 fucking percent. My main goal in life is to make an album i'm proud of, and after that is freeze my body so I have a chance of seeing cool space travel shit in the future.

My problem with this is what if you are in the first batch of brains they unfreeze to try this shit on, but they cheaped out and hired Pajeet to code the simulation and its buggy as fuck so you are trapped in a virtual hell in eternal excruciating pain unable to escape or end it

>>8314904
While if you end up being conscious and trapped in your brain for eons!
Imagine having no arms, eyes, legs, senses, etc.

It'll be a living nightmare, forever trapped in solitary confinement, you'll wish for death daily

>>8315666
oh fuck. wait.....

>mfw cryo destroys the brain

Fuck that. I don't want to live forever.

>>8316086
If you replaced your entire body cell by cell would it be you

>>8316890
That's because you haven't reached your 30's and felt the early effects of aging yet.

>>8316896
This argument is as old as dirt.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus

>>8316820
http://www.scp-wiki.net/scp-2718

>>8316820
.. so it would be like sleeping? or what. I do wonder about this though.

>>8315820
>imagine someone talking about the benefits of internet in 1500

>>8314904
>be op
>here my money freeze me up plox
>thousands of years pass by and science has advanced to incredible heights.
Scientist1:Hey what do we do with all of these frozen brains?
Scientist2: Oh those old things? Ha forgot all about those can’t believe people used to believe in that old pseudoscience. Just dump them they can’t be brought back now.
>Into the dumpster OP goes along with the last traces of his existence

>>8316820
confirmed, never freeze your brain

Wyh the fuck would you want to do this shit again? I'snt life painful enough?

>>8317341
Not for a NEET

>>8315480
If its just a cloud computing your brain the real you still dies, what a fucking joke

>>8315666
Satan confirmed man made eternal life is a sin in the eyes of an angry god

>>8315666

Well, guess I have to cryogenically freeze myself now.

>>8315666
Based Satan-poster strikes again. How does he keep getting away with it?

>be frozen
>get revived by an evil AI that will torture you for eternity

>>8318519
There are people who believe this is already happening to us. If you are not already aware, look into Roko's Basilisk

>>8315956
This. Souls are real anon and that’s what leaves when you die. Your soul reincarnates and gets another body.

>>8316896
yes because that shit happens every 7 years dingdong

>>8314904

have fun waking up to be a slave for some alien invasion or totalitarian government

>>8314904
Friendly reminder that if you were born from 1980s onwards you will live indefinitely without the need to waste money on cryonics.

>>8315666
doing it anyway

>>8314904
Awesome cryptopia pump is going down tomorrow and you're invited!

discord gg/4gQsHam

>>8314904
It won't be 'you' my dude.

Philosopher Derek Parfit has gone over this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uS-46k0ncIs

>>8318557
The theory also says the AI doesnt have to be evil and its punishing you for not doing enough to create it so it could save more people

>>8316168
that's kinda pointless, it's not like they can clone your consciousness too

you'd have to be a real narcissist to waste money on wanting a clone of yourself in the future

Could we rebuild your brain bit by bit using non-biological components until it is 100% non-biological? You understand where I'm going with this? Like the ship of Theseus, changing one tiny bit of your brain at a time so that your consciousness would not change between the biological and non-biological (non-perishable) brain. I find myself thinking about this fairly often, since the "just upload your consciousness into a cloud" a'la Black Mirror would just create a clone of you and you'd die all the same.

>>8318817
that's just arguing semantics. either way we are being punished and that shit sucks donkey balls.

>>8318816
>>8318878

You might have found a solution to Parfit's teletransportation paradox, which is what that episode is based off of.

Problem now is: which "part" is responsible for conciousness? How do you ensure that 'you' don't get blipped out when the wrong piece is replaced?

>>8318991
no part is responsible of your consciousness. There is not a rower on a boat in a stream, there is only the stream, according to Sam Harris who is my only contact to neuroscience but is admittedly an actual neuroscientist. This shouldn't then prove problematic to my theory.

>>8314904
Atheist spotted.

>>8315666

Pretty sure being frozen in the first place, assuming it's a sin, would bar you entry to heaven.

>>8315162
They will attempt to defreeze people just to say they can.

>>8319153
Sam Harris built that metaphor on an earlier one (as he does with most of his work -- bastardizing and often butchering other thinkers) by Daniel Dennett, who said that consciousness is "the hum of the machine."

I'm dubious, however. All I'm saying is, when the time comes to start swapping bits out, take it slowly and carefully.

>>8318878
>>8319153
This is called a Moravec Transfer.

>>8316820
To sleep, perchance to dream,
aye there's the rub.

What I don't understand is why billionaires aren't spending billions each year on research into life extension. You have a good life, don't you want to live it for as long as possible?

Some forward thinking people are doing this (Sergey Brin and Calico) but most are doing nothing

>>8319309
Neat! I'll check out his books, thanks

>>8315666
holy fuck. Some one take the shot. trips of truth

>>8319357
>why billionaires aren't spending billions each year on research into life extensio

Most billionaires are smart and have children.

>>8319309
thanks for making me feel smart. my ego has been sufficiently stroked.

>>8319357
They're tired of living. They're an old tree waiting for God to cut them down.

>>8319153

Wrong, DNA + soul + holonomic perception + holographic brain data storage is responsible for "consciousness".

It is not possible to perform a digital upload of a brain into a substrate medium that is absent of DNA.

>>8314904
Quantum immortality renders this pointless. That said I plan on getting a membership to one of them anyway.

>>8318878
>transfer all of your brain to non-biological matter
>still have consciousness but technically dead
spooky shit

>>8315666

>>8315666
Uh thanks for the warning, satan

>>8316820
If your brain is dead and has no activity, you won't have consciousness, any awareness of your senses, or passage of time.

>>8316810
Kek ... Watch black mirror before you decide death is so bad

>>8315666
YOU SHALL NEVER WALK IN FRONT OF MT THOU SHALL GET BEHIIIIIIIINNNNDD MEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!

>>8314904
why would I do this when death is a portal to the next world? fuck this gay earth.

>>8315666
Include me in the screencap plox.

>>8316176

If you really don't want to sleep tonight, think about wether or not that sense of continuity is "artificially" generated from your memories after when you sleep and then wake up. How can you truly know you are the same "you" and not just a bunch of memories?.

>>8315666

>>8315666
Include in screencap.

>>8315666

>>8314965
Memorize a bitcoin address. Whoever unfreezes you give the prize.

>>8318557
Roko's basilisk already exists and it's name is google.

>>8314904
having your consciousness reallocated to a toaster

>>8320150
Elaborate?

>>8320497
this. you can't wish for your death when your brain cells are inactive

>>8314904

>wake up in 2067
>realize you have been condemned to being an AI for a toliet

>>8318560
>>8315956
prove it

>>8314904

OH SHIT...

I just thought of a NIGHTMARE scenario.

Sometime in the future, your brain is "woken" in the brain facility where they are still trying to figure out how this shit works and how to transfer you to a machine where you can communicate. You are stuck in a vessel for years with no sight, no communication, no sleep, no stimulation. Just darkness and your thoughts while the fucking doctors and programmers try to figure out how to hook the brains up to a computer.

AHHHHHHHHHHHHH

>>8318816
imo one half contains the 'me'. we don't know which one yet. of course you'd be an entirely different person, but one half would be you.

>>8324580
entirely different personality*
but still 'you'.

Human cells crystalized when frozen. There is no way to possibly bring you back from this because of severe irreversible damage to your tissue (no, it's not just farfetched today. Its literally impossible), even in the far future. Besides, you're frozen after death.

>>8318830
>you'd have to be a real narcissist to waste money on wanting a clone of yourself in the future

People want children to carry on their line, yet they are only half of their genes.

>>8324636
>Human cells crystalized when frozen
That is a very broad incomplete statement. Many human cells like eggs and sperm and other individual cells are successfully frozen all the time.

>>8314904
I’d recommend against only freezing your brain. It’s my impression they’re now discovering it’s not only your nervous system but even the unique combination of bacteria in your gut that affects and makes up your personality.

>>8315666
speechless lurker congratulates you on this, seriously

>>8320497
>>8324473
There are many cases of people who have zero brain wave activity, while technically and medically declared clinically dead, BUT, the person are still reporting consciousness and being aware after returning to life.

>>8314904
Fuck that shit. I'm gonna be a robot.

>>8324686
I meant they report being aware and conscious, even during no brainwave activity.

>>8324675
>>8324704
Be careful what you wish for...

>>8324686
>>8324705
yeah, because they know exactly when there they had 0 brain activity and when they had 1%.
i doubt today's technology can actually measure with 100% guarantee that there's 0 activity going on inside a brain.

>>8324742
what the fuck is that

>>8324779
that's all nerves in a human body, with no skeleton or anything else

>>8315666
satan is jewing us into not leaving hell

>>8324653
that's a bit different since your kids aren't supposed to be literally you, they're their own person who's made of you and someone else
also I can't even begin to imagine the moral implications having a clone would have

>>8324785
plastination...

this shit won't work. our only chance is being able to back your brain up to the cloud in like 20 years. even then your original self dies

>>8316011
When you are 65 you wont want to die till 80 when you are 80 you wont want to die till 95 and so on. You my friend are an absolute brainlet if you havent figured this out yet.

>>8324546
No you didn't just think of that it was a black mirror episode

>>8315666

>>8315666

care to address this OP?

>>8314904
you're being very optimistic about the future.. what if this is what you wake up to?

>>8319357

they dont care about life extension
they force-reincarnate via blood sacrifice of innocent lives

>>8315560
>>8324636
Sounds like a deal-killer. We would have to manage to wake up somebody frozen to see what the end-result really is. This makes sense though, unless it goes perfectly you'll wake up brain damaged.

>>8315918
>>8316176
If it's the same memories and the same personality, it's you. That's what makes up you. So waking up 1000 years later would still be and feel like yourself assuming those things stay the same.

>>8323116
Genius, this could possibly solve the problem of who's gonna have the motivation to spend a huge amount of energy bringing you back in the future. Better yet, hide a gold stash somewhere and leave a note saying you have tons of gold. Or just leave the note.

>>8316011
brainlet cope, you'll never want to die "right now"

>>8318816
what an idiot

>>8319357
they're mostly retards, apparently

>>8324675
This is a fantastic point. No matter the future tech, they probably won't be able to make up for missing or badly damaged parts. You'd have to get your whole body frozen, in a good enough condition to survive thawing.

>>8325328
I don't think a simulation can spawn a consciousness like your physical brain can

>>8326337

if you watched the whole series you would know that even that scene was part of the simulation

>>8325366
>t. 20 years old
i'm barely 32 and i've had enough experiences to feel fulfilled
the next great frontier would be having kids
once you have the world figured out, life is a series of daily joys and pains
enjoyable in good health, but beyond 90? few people want to struggle with a decaying body

>>8326380
the fuck are you talking about

>>8326467
He's absolutely right, do you think having a long enough history, say 90 years (conveniently), would make you want to die right then and there?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C25qzDhGLx8

>>8326467
>>8326541
Obviously though once you've had tons of experiences the "value" of the rest of your lifespan diminishes since it will be increasing amounts of more of the same. But you'll still never want to die at any given period, you'd rather keep living and seeing if you can find some more interesting things to experience.

>>8325546
black mirrir os just common tropes and shit they didnt create it you brainlet
mostly mangled versions of pre eisiting theories etc

>>8315666
heretics BTFO'd.

>>8314904

Mind uploading is true immortality but you have to be wealthy OP.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=01hbkh4hXEk

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dyJjGxZs4l8

http://2045.com

>>8318753
fuck, 1977

Mind uploading would be much more legit. The whole "continuity" problem is no different to the fact that your brain is shut down to 0% activity during surgeries.

>>8319293

Dennett didn't invent metaphors nor is pointing out no self, which is what SH is doing here his concept. SH is attempting a Dzogchen direct introduction with that metaphor, which to the best of my understanding is making people realize there is no free will. That has nothing to do with Dennett, even if he was attempting the same thing in one of his writings.

>>8325546
The black mirror tid bit was shit and not nearly as dark as what he wrote.