/biz/ - Business & Finance

inb4 slid off board in 2 min

>>3059

I hope not. I'm excited for the discussion.

>>3015

Kaz is being stubborn about selling off the TV branch.

Probably.

Yes. Yes. Depends. If the investors get their say, no. If Kaz does, yes.

Probably Samsung. And no. Yes. No and no. PlayStation wouldn't be their problem/obligation. And I'm guessing they'd shutter the studios.

No. It can be, but Kaz is an idiot, so it won't.

Good questions.

I think Kaz will turn around the consumer side, they're doing the right thing trying to cut the fat and focus on less.

>>3715
You're just that faggot from /v/ who said Sony will sell playstation to Samsung. You don't actually know anything do you?

>>3841

Isn't he only spinning off the TV division and refusing to sell outright?r

>>3977

Not him, but

>What is a joke?

And it's possible. No need to get so butthurt about it. Take your consolewar bullshit out of /biz/ and let the grown-ups talk.

>>4681
>dumb fuck posts bullshit without knowing anything
>lol it wuz joke
You're the one bringing consolewars here. Grown-up my ass.

>>3015
I came here to laugh at you.

>>5251

Care to prove the other anon wrong?

Pretty sure "Can't wait for my Samsung Playstation." is a joke.

I would know because I posted the joke in the first place, even if it has some merit.

A joke NOT made in /biz/ by the way.

The only one slinging consolewar bullshit in here is you, anon. Nobody mentioned Microsoft or Nintendo. We're discussing Sony's future.

>>5381

That's sure some worthwhile business discussion you're bringing in here, anon. Go back to /v/.

>>5420
You're right, nobody mentioned Microsoft or Nintendo, until your post. So what console war are you bitching about?

>>3015
>Sonyggers
I want all who use console warrior terms to die in a fire.

>>5472
>thread linked on /v/ fighting in a console war
>wow that's some nice discussion

same to you faggot, I literally came here to laugh at you bringing console bullshit to not just one board but two. Kill yourself.

>>5510

>Calls someone a faggot from /v/ for making a joke/reasonable outcome that clearly disagrees with his fanboyism
>Not consolewarring

Pick one. Samsung is a legitimate competitor. Why does that upset you so much?

Feel free to give some actual points before you accuse someone of talking out of their ass.

>>5623

>Implying OP is the one who linked it
>Implying it wasn't posted in a console war thread because sales discussion belongs here instead

>>5730
OP you are trying too hard.

Sony still thinks it's the 90's and they are still on top. Market shoves head into palms and weeps softly for retard management fucks over Japan's economy, and, after Panasonic managed to unfuck itself and Nissan might do the same. What a shame.

Only have themselves to blame. Management genuinely thought they were invincible and Japanese products would rule the world. They just forgot the whole "Quality" part and started cutting corners.

Hell, the Sony/Columbia deal in the 80's was infamous because Sony paid ridiculously over the odds for the studio from Coca-Cola, simply because it was throwing its weight around and thought it was invincible.

Only Panasonic, Sharp and Toshiba seem to be making it out alive (Mainly because they actually streamlined and restructured) while everyone carried on with NIPPON STRONK. Shame.

>>5851

I know because I linked it. And I'm not OP.

>>3015

>>5915

>>5893
>They just forgot the whole "Quality" part and started cutting corners.
Oh man, this is especially apparent in their laptops.
Some of the most unreliable pieces of shit I've ever used.

>>5893

This is very true. I wholeheartedly agree with you and appreciate actual discussion.

>>5945

You bought a Vaio? You poor son of a bitch.

At least with Dell you're getting shit quality at a low price.

>>5893

Is the retard management do mostly to everyone being yesmen in Japanese corpthink? Or are there other idiots at play?

>>6019
I got one as a gift and the other was $200, so I just said fuck it.
Honestly, I regretted it, since the half the keys snapped off and the screen came unhinged.

>>6052

Wow. Not even my oldest Dell laptop (an Inspiron 6000) still works after 8 years, no problem.

Not bad for getting it for free.

>>6167

laptop had a problem. It still works*

Too only downside is it's kind of heavy on the legs. Guess that's the cost of quality.

>>6167
I still have an old HP gaming laptop from 2003 that still works.
I think the last game I played on it though was Left 4 Dead.

You should see last month's Financial Times' latest pieces, OP. I wish I remembered to save their criticism on Kaz Hirai after CES, it's behind a paywall now.
>>5893
>Sony still thinks it's the 90's and they are still on top
Canon, Casio, Citizen, Fujifilm, Fujitsu, Hitachi, JVC Kenwood, Mitsubishi Electric, NEC, Nikon, Nintendo, Olympus, Pioneer, Ricoh, Seiko Group, Sharp, Sony, TDK and Toshiba.

All are in decline, it's kinda sad that they didn't evolve themselves towards the new market.

>>6188

The* Holy fuck I am making typos all over the place.

>>6236

That's damn impressive. Both being alive, and having a laptop that could run L4D (mine can't, GPU is shit).

>>6294

That sucks. I will look into it though.

And holy shit that's quite the list. Well done.

>Toshiba

I had a laptop from them once where the charging pin was attached to the motherboard and it could break off, which happened twice.

They deserve it, as far as I'm concerned.

>>5893

Holy shit. Some of my /v/ pasta made it here.

I've never been more happy this board exists.

>>6043

Everyone's been a Yes man since Akio Morita shuffled off the mortal coil and Nobuyuki Idei became CEO. Then they appointed Howard Stringer. Then Kaz Hirai. They were all Morita yes men and hence why the company is still fucked. Plus, this is the company that Steve Jobs was trying to get to licence OS X for Vaio, just before it exploded (He even showed them a Vaio running OSX during a Golf Meeting he had his engineers cook up) and offered them an amazing deal. They declined.

Look how doggedly Kaz is holding onto TV by putting it into a "100% Wholly owned spin off". It's still funneling money to a cancerous division. All that does is make it worth less when Samsung or LG pick it off. Fuck, it will probably be Vizio offering the change in their pocket by that time.

Their management is retarded and needs a hitman in their own company like Michael Fasulo who won't deal with that money wasting shit.

>>6439

Me neither. This discussion is a thousand times more level-headed already than in /v/. It's beautiful.

All that stuff about management is very interesting. Seems like that way of thinking in Japan is on the way out? Surely that's nothing but a good thing.

>>6391

Toshiba is Japanese Samsung. Crap build, great components at low price. They will survive. Seem to be preparing to get in the Win 8 Tablet game (FYI that might go big during the year. People are getting over the novelty of Android tabs and finding out Surface and Win 8 tabs can actually be used for working on stuff. Lenovo seems to be building steam and the Dell Venue Pro seems to be a hot seller. Keep an eye on that market. Seems like it could really go lopsided soon.)

>>6513
>All that stuff about management is very interesting. Seems like that way of thinking in Japan is on the way out? Surely that's nothing but a good thing.

Some companies see the signs that it's best to just get out where Korea has them beat like Panasonic who gave up Phones and TV's (They will only manufacture TV's to "Demand" now. Might be a while, the Panasonic SR is an absolute beauty. Best on the market.)

Some like Sony are doggedly hanging on to the old style of "We can make everything!" and losing more and more money. Hell, the calls of "PS4 isn't going to happen!" rang some truth because PS4 shouldn't have happened according to the market. It was a hail mary play that needed electronics firing on all cylinders which Sony was never going to get back. And the market was right. The PS4 barely made back a slim margin despite record sales and even that profit was pumped higher because of favorable exchange rates.

I wouldn't bet. They dove in TV hard at CES despite the fact it was one of their worst divisions and that showed they still have the Sony Arrogance that lead them to this point. My fear is the PS4 just galvanized it.

What's killing Sony is Kaz's arrogance towards selling the failing divisions, what they should hold onto is Music, Movies, Playstation, Mobile and Insurance and sell everything else

>>7628

I'd shift mobile to Apple as well. Would probably make more in long run.

Hell, I'd just sell up to Apple. They are flirting and obviously want Pictures and music. Get an inflated price and a good dividend for your investors then get out.

>>3015
sony will be reduced to 4 branches soon

Insurance
Movies
music
games (out of sheer pride)

and games will still the weakest among then

>>6846
Like lenovo gets f___ed and Dell buys Lenovo?

>>7628
>15K employees
>2 buildings
>1 division already
Sony faggot pride is their own worst enemy even in gaming division, PS3 and VITA are testament of that

>>7853
>15K employees
That one wasn't a smart move

>2 buildings
That one was, in a certain way.

>1 division already
And that's where you went full retarded. VAIO brand stopped being profitable since +6 years ago. After seeing the brand was just not giving them extra money after many tries, there were only two choices: keep the useless brand and keep bleeding money, or just sell it, stop bleeding and recover a considerable amount of money. Now, only thing they need to do is get rid of their TV division (since Samsung and LG are dominating the market with their gimmicks and cheap prices) and Sony might finally see good green numbers within a year.

Keeping a moneybleeding division is the WORST decision a company can take.
Thank goodness you are not in charge of a company.

wtf

>>8038
I thought they had some chemistry division ..or am I confused

>>8038
They could have kept VAIO and made only 2 models.

Who the fuck use this ?

>>8038
>Keeping a moneybleeding division is the WORST decision a company can take.
>Thank goodness you are not in charge of a company.
I never stated it was good, I jsut mentioned what sony have done in the last years and still being bloody red

never said were bad moves.

I would have killed VITA a long ago

What /v/ doesn't get is that even if Sony does go out of business (which they probably will within the next decade), they'll just sell off the PlayStation brand to the highest bidder. Same with if Microsoft finally decides to sell off the Xbox brand.

>>8068
Ah yes, that one too. It was sold around 2012 when Sony was on the deep red numbers. It helped them to balance things a bit. 200 billions (i think) which around early 2013 just disappeared.

>>8095
Yeah no. VAIO stopped being profitable. Even if they did 2 models, it would not give profit to Sony since VAIO products are overall overpriced, and on a market dominated by HP, Samsung (and sometimes, Lenovo), Sony just had no position to take there. Also, the build quality of VAIO notebooks have dropped considerably.

>Who the fuck use this ?
Some companies used them. They were mainly used before netbooks appeared. Neat little devices, but using the cursor on that thing was a pain.

>>8143
Vita's not really gonna be a product after this year. Sony will just market it as a really cool/expensive PS4 controller rather than as its own thing.

>>8212
>they'll just sell off the PlayStation brand to the highest bidder.
The thing is, we don't know if the bidder will actually want to support consoles as an industry.
For all we know, they could completely scrap Playstation and focus the brand name entirely on PS Now.

>>8221
>2013 just disappeared.
If I were to guess, they burned em into PS4 marketing

I cant believe they called it Sony history biggest campaign and still made a profit on Q3

>>8252
>PS Now.
sony is already betting the golden eggs goose on this.

for what I read on the financial report, and that interview in CVG.
seems like PS4 barely broke even, counting all the extra free cash from PS+ and add ons like the camera (people to twitch) and the new controllers (face it, if people complain about Nintendo gamepad, DS4 is even a more jew move)

>>6846

>Because of exchange rates

The fact they had to pad the numbers like this is just an indicator they are only posturing and either getting ready to sell off the division or trying to keep investor faith.

They are pushing PR VERY hard.

A recent leak suggests they only sold 300k consoles over January compared to 150k Xbox Ones.

>>3015

Info not in this thread over here.

>>8953

>>5893
>Sony still thinks it's the 90's and they are still on top

God damn, they are more like Nintendo than one might think.

>>6294
Try to retrieve the links using Google cache.
For example,
https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/cd003b48-42be-11e3-8350-00144feabdc0.html

>>7765
lenovo is a pretty good brand as far as I am concerned.
my 400€ laptop can play most games on medium, although it gets some heat issues obviously.

>>8212
>What /v/ doesn't get is that even if Sony does go out of business (which they probably will within the next decade), they'll just sell off the PlayStation brand to the highest bidder.
the question here is who's going to buy it?
>Same with if Microsoft finally decides to sell off the Xbox brand.
if i recall correctly,they said they want to sell the Xbox brand to apple

>>12900
what the fuck does apple know about games?

>>12491
How are their laprops in terms of durability? I have a boner for tech that built well and is hard to kill even if it doesn't preform as well as the others.

>>13804
It is pretty good, but the thinkpad 410 has some minor issues in the sement between laptop and monitor (It was my fault, took the laptop while open and dropped it onto my bed from ~1m above and it had its neck broken, electronic obviously still worked,) had to "glue" it twice, buts its okay right now, and it is really a good machine for the price. that said I have some issues with keyboard pressing resulting in ignoring the touchpad inputs.
heps when typing but when I tried to play a shooter without a mouse just for the hell of it I could not run and shoot at the same time

>>13967
That's I'll look into it.I don't know shit about about laptops and I'm just trying to find the greatest bang for my buck.
/g/ sems to have a boner for used thinkpads but no one sells them where I live.

>>14003
I was able to buy it relatively cheap by using some online code from the platform I bought it off, I am pretty satisfied with my result.

>>14011
Is it supposed to cost ~$800 or am I searching in the wrong places?

>>14022
hmm, I was able to buy it below 500€, with the coupon and shit.
I think roughly 400€

Sony is the premium TV brand

I bought one one but my uncle made me take it back because I spent the weeks shopping money on it. I have a Pana CRT and an LG IPS. I think most people see Sony as the top brand in TVs.

>>14348
>I think most people see Sony as the top brand in TVs.

If they did. They wouldn't be trying to rescue it. Samsung and LG are the top panel makers. Sony's desperately holding on to marketshare it established years ago.

>>3015
>Do you think Kaz will actually sell off the TV branch? Who would buy it?

Eventually. I don't know.

>Do you think they will sell their pictures division to Apple?

No.

>Do you think they are windowdressing the PS brand preparing for a sale? Is PlayStation Now part of this? Or will they hang onto it for revenue and pray it pays off?

No. I think the PS brand will be one of the last things to go.

>Who would buy the brand? Would they stay in the console market? Or just do it for the patents? Would they support the current console, or release their own? Would they use Sony studios for third party?

I cannot see a scenario in which they sell the Playstation brand. I think they'd sooner kill it completely than sell it to an outside party.

>Will Sony save itself? Or can it not be saved at all?

Only time will tell. Expect stagnation until 2015.

>>14454
>the PS brand will be one of the last things to go
Indeed. Who would buy it, Microsoft?

>>14475
If it were to be sold, and I'm saying "if" because it's a scenario I seriously doubt would ever happen, I think the only company that would buy it would be Nintendo. They have the money, they have the interest, they have room for growth, especially in the hardcore market. They seem like they'd be the prime candidate.

But as I said, Sony will never sell the Playstation brand. They'll sooner kill off the division and sell the buildings and fire everyone than sell off the PS name.

>>14454
>Do you think they will sell their pictures division to Apple?
>No.

I don't think they will. But I do envision a scenario where Kaz panics and spins off pictures and music as a way to raise quick cash and Apple runs a proxy war with shareholders to eat into it.

>No. I think the PS brand will be one of the last things to go.

It won't go but the margins are slim. In the middle of the Sony fanboy celebrations about the NPD (Which wasn't even that good in the first place. around 270K. And the fanboys screaming "Supply constraints!". I'd believe more that Sony haven't got the money to be producing as much since Apple used to pay more to turn up the manufacturing to meet demand.). It turned out Sony sold less than 60K PS3's. When your new product is cannibalizing your older, more profitable product. That's an astonishing fuck up. Especially since the PS3 was buoyed the first two or three years by PS2 sales still being rather excellent.

I'm starting to see why Playstation Now was moved up in schedule. It's a failsafe so they can just drop hardware at any time.

>Only time will tell. Expect stagnation until 2015.

Depends if the loss increases on next quarterly. If it drops to $1.3-1.5 billion. I can see shareholder revolt and Hirai getting the boot out of the company.

>>14502
I don't have much faith in the PS4's game lineup in Q1 in booting sales all that much. The only notable games I see there are Infamous: Second Son, MGS:GZ, and Thief. I highly, highly doubt Thief will be a system seller, and MGS:GZ doesn't look like it's going to be a very long game (not to mention it's also on the XB1). So it's pretty much up to Infamous and good marketing to help Sony survive Q1 2014. In the Playstation division, anyway.

>When your new product is cannibalizing your older, more profitable product. That's an astonishing fuck up.

Especially when that older, more profitable product has only been profitable for a couple of years now (if I remember right). I think Sony should've held off on putting out the PS4 from a business perspective, but at the same time, the PS3 is what, eight years old now? Hardware gets outdated, eventually. I think they were between a rock and a hard place and they're making the best of it. Whether that's going to be good enough is a toss-up.

>>14546
To add to this: If their handheld was nearly as profitable as the 3DS or even the PSP, they'd be doing significantly better. I think they need to revitalize the Vita (or rather, bring it to life in the first place) before they start relying on the PS4, which is practically brand-new, for their income in the PS division. They've been trying to do that, but they've only had marginal success, and almost exclusively in Japan. There's a market out there, they're just not reaching it.

>>14565
Why do you keep talking about Sony's gaming division like it's doing poorly.

It's doing incredibly well and we're going to see Sony take over the gaming market as a monopoly again.

Sony now needs to get rid of their TV division and focus on being a content provider. With PS Now, their music streaming service and their video service, they stand a good chance to become a netflix competitor in the future.

>>14565

Vita was just poorly planned in the first place. It was even put out not expecting to make a profit in the first three years that got eaten by the phone market. It's too late on that front. Market is not interested

>>14678

Because this is not /v/ and we can see razor slim margins on the gaming division already and Sony making huge mistakes like obliterating it's own PS3 share just to get the refreshed product on the market. To sell that amount of units and only make $172 million, and even that was helped by favorable currency conversions is an astonishing fuck up when your competition, that sells less (Though a really large amount to be fair) and had a disastrous PR period, posts half a billion in revenue. It reeks of Sega from Saturn into Dreamcast levels of fuck up from a business perspective. Especially now publishers are going to freak and start dropping support for previous gen quicker. And now Sony's stuck with having to produce a console that's not making as much profit and killing it's own profitable safety net.

It's astonishingly bad planning and someone fucked up along the time.

Honestly, it feels like Sony themselves realize that the age of dedicated consoles is coming to an end. That's the main point of PSNow, a service to keep the PS brand alive when the gaming industry will just be PCs/Mobile only.

>>14678
Because even it isn't doing poorly now, it's going to do less well in the future. The PS4 just got the biggest sudden boost of sales it will likely ever get, its release. It's only downhill from here so to speak, and even in the best of times for its gaming division, Sony's not doing spectacular.

The whole things looks kind of like a train wreck. Not in the sense that it's so horrible you can't look away, but more in the sense that it happened because somewhere along the line, someone had the job of planning the route of this company so a fuckup like this didn't happen, and they failed, and even though they didn't immediately realize it, they'd set the course for this trainwreck far in the future, and now we get to witness it.

>>14826'
>even it isn't
even though it isn't

>>14678

>mfw the usual /v/ parroting is blown the fuck out by people who actually know what they're talking about

I love this board. Thank you based moot.

To add to what was already said "monopoly" is bullshit. The PS4 is selling a great number of units, but this is not Gen 6 again. Xbone is surprisingly meeting M$ expectations (between 3 - 4 million IIRC). And remember, it's selling at $100 more, and is most likely making a profit on each unit.

It's not the juggernaut that Sony is but it is by no means a flop. It's somewhere in the middle. And considering how fucking hard they dropped the PR ball and the $100 price difference I already mentioned, that's amazing.

I'll blame consumer ignorance + a bigger exclusives library for that one.

January sales are about 120k compared to 270k of the PS4 iirc. Which is a pretty weak showing.

I expect February to be even lower with console sales, and then for them to somewhat pick up again in March with all the new games coming out.

Past that, I don't think there's many announced games, so we'll have to see. E3 will be crucial this year, and probably one of the best in recent years with the competition each console has to bring to the table.

>>14678

I should add that I completely understand why you might think that, but just read the thread to see past what /v/ tells you.

I appreciate you not going off with "SONYDOMINATION", even if you are mistaken.

You are right about them needing to get rid of the TV division.

As for PS Now being a Netflix competitor, it depends how they price it and who they make it available to.

The rumours seem to suggest that it will be $50/year, with no discount for PS+. That is full retard, in my opinion. The only thing that could be worse is if they require PS+ to use PSNow. That would be the stupidest thing they could ever do.

Anyways, I hope you've learned something from this thread.

>>17963

Both were weak but if MS is making profit off SKU like suspected from the finance sheets last quarter. They can shrug it off. Especially since they sold much more software than Sony did (10 million to 7 million apparently) while Sony will have to hope they can keep momentum. But Wii level momentum seems out of the question (I see a lot of PS4's in Second hand stores at the minute. It doesn't have that Wii level of desperation to get a hold of one)

AFAIK the final numbers were something like 143K for xbone and 260K for PS4. And considering the slim margins and slowing down of demand for PS4. Sony may have fucked themselves up. Japan doesn't seem like it's going to produce much profit either with the marketing and promotion they will have to pull with that (And at the minute, Apple is saturating the fuck out of marketing and advertising in Japan) and competition. I can maybe see a 400-500K opening week but Japan's market is all about mobile now.

Interesting, but next quarter seems like another razor slim margin for SCE.

>>18902

Very good points anon. I think this thread is going a lot better than the other one.

>>17963
The ps4 is selling at a loss anyway.

ITT: sonyponies circle jerking and hating /v/ because they don't take their shit there

>>18902
Sonyggers getting blown the fuck out.

>>19046

No. Stop. This shit is what is ruining the other thread. It's a fucking disaster right now and I want it to stay over there.

>>18994

I thought the rumours are that it sold at like $18 profit? Then again, this is a possibility considering the low amount of money the division brought in. I'm guessing a PS+ sub and/or a game is what they count on.

>>19172

It's suspected IHS fucked up the teardowns and considering IHS have been caught before using newegg instead of Spot Pricing for component costs (Especially on blu-ray drives and memory), I wouldn't be shocked if they botched it. Especially since they actually had xbone making less profit off their margin when it's clear MS are likely pulling profit off their SKU. Seriously, I was repeatedly looking up and down their sheets wondering what the fuck till I hit that conclusion. The android patents were filed in Software licencing and that brought in the revenue I expected. High software numbers plus profitable SKU. No wonder they kept kinect in and stayed that high. They Apple Taxed everyone.

But then I remember a non-neogaf industry insider making a winking comment about how "Xbone is an iPhone. PS4 is an android" just before launch. Android phones are notorious for very low margins because of the components arms race (See HTC for details). It was a real Keyser Sose moment.

For Sony, I certainly heard GDDR5 prices were fucked before that. I'm also wondering if the scalping effect had any problems. They had a very, very low attach rate on the NPD's. No software sales or subscriptions plus unit sales wouldn't push it up.

Whole thing feels like a clusterfuck with Sony and I'm wondering what on earth they did wrong here to sell that many units and post so little profit.

I suppose waiting for the Q3 may be a better option. But games seems like it's in the same limbo state as mobile at the minute. Profitable, but razor thin margins. And with the knowledge they may have thrown the baby out with the bathwater on PS3. I'm wondering how they are going to handle it since their margin is already bad on the most successful point. What happens when the bad quarters happen?

>>19536

Bump for preservation.

>sonyggers
Is... is /v/ going to post on this board?
/biz/ confirmed for dead on arrival

>>22662

>Cherrypicking one word in the OP

Seems fine to me. Also, you realize this board is a containment board for console sale posting, right?

TV that isn't LG, Samsung or maybe 1-2 other companies is fucking DEAD

Philips sold off their TV business long ago, and Philips is slow as molasses. What the fuck is sony doing?

Is it just jap vs korea racial hatred and competition?

GET THE FUCK OUT, PULL THE FUCK OUT FROM THIS MARKET YOU CANNOT COMPETE.

God damn samsung are a fucking evil company and i fucking hate them but nobody can compete with them. not one single company. they crush everyone

we need north korea to nuke them. I pray for the day Seoul is a radioactive wasteland.

Who would have thought the most unethical, ruthless, shilling, corrupt, evil coporation wasn't jewish, wasn't american, wasn't german, but fucking SOUTH. KOREAN.

thank you based free market

So is vita one of those things sony can just make and keep going through the years without much hassle for them economically?

perharps them dropping quietly support would give the hacking community the push they need in order to make a true cfw since for the time being they seem to be wallowing in their self pity over what happened to the psp

at the very least the hardware sales would boom as soon as the mainstream found out you could put cfw on it

>>26555

Vita hacking died as soon as Retroarch appeared on iOS and Droid. Emulation is pointless when there are vastly more powerful devices to do it on that at most only require a sideload. It's basically a dead system walking and Sony desperately trying to break even.

I'm not even sure what they were thinking with the Vita TV. People on 2ch were sending them back en masse to Amazon.jp as turns out the stupid things could barely do 720P streaming video.

For context, Raspberry Pi and Ouya can do 1080P streaming over XBMC. Sony fucked up.

>>26786
>Vita hacking died as soon as Retroarch appeared on iOS and Droid

not hard to believe that is actually true but i am dissapointed in that regard

guess i am one of the few then that can not stand emulating on ios/droid because of the general lack of buttons

>>26818

PSP was great at the time as it was so hackable and did an awful lot. But with more and more phones starting to eclipse in power and compatibility along with dedicated devices like NVidia Shield. It's becoming more pointless to CFW Vita unless it's for Piracy when emulation and other aspects the PSP did are done so much easier and so much better on a top-brand mobile.

I wanted these shitty threads off of /v/, but now that theyre on /biz/, i kind of want them to go back

>>26894
Now i think these threads are funny, i always have.
/v/irgins have no idea how buisness works and they litterally just pull shit out of their asses.
I once had a guy tell me that sony's stock price is formed by a mathmatical equation, and when that stock hits 0 sony is bankrupt.

>>26894
>>26931

Well now you are going to have to deal with it because Sony's ineptitude at running a business is relevant here.

Actually, moot should move the sales threads here too.

So, what does this mean for the PS4?

I'm asking this because I haven't bought one yet, and I don't want to buy one and then find that Sony has gone bust and no-one's making games for it any longer.

>>27029

Cost cutting and a shit ton of it. Subscriptions to anything not nailed down to the carpet like backwards compatability. PS+ games being cheap indie games instead of AAA games.

Don't expect the value you got from PS3 near the end. They will still keep plugging away or find a buyer though. I would not be shocked if Orbis OS is replaced by Android by the end of the console lifecycle though.

>>6846

So I suppose that Nintendo has an opportunity to capitalize on Sony weakness in this area. Maybe Toshiba can pick up their TV market.

The real head scratcher is what goes down at the next investors meeting. Any Yaks who are balls deep in Sony stock might have something to say about diminishing returns.

>>27056
Right. I has always had PlayStation up until the last gen. consoles where I got a 360.

Most of my mates are the same, and chose PS4 on this latest gen. Haven't got the money at the moment, but I was just curious if this Sony struggle will lead to it being canned or anything like that.

>>27084

The chances of the brand being sold off are high if the investors have their say.

As for what the buyers do with it, we can only speculate based on the buyer.

That said, if they don't sell it off. It's going down with the ship. Either way as a financial decision, I would not buy one, in addition to the fact that it is lacking in software.

>>14348
>Sony is the premium TV brand

That's kind of their problem there. In the days of CRT tech they were selling a product you could see was better with a glance.

Flat panels and digital reception took that away, now even most cheap screens look pretty good.

So Sony was left trying to compete with their logo, more plugs on the back, more buttons, shit most people don't really care about at the end of the day.

>mfw this thread is 100% more civil and rational than the other thread

i have no idea why but i dig it

>>27463

Other thread was linked in /v/ and the Sony fanboys are upset. That's why. Pray they don't find this one.

>>27322

Current Sony panels are just rebranded LG's except with Sony software and them fucking around with the colors and the Sony tax on them. So for your customer who wants something good quality build and panel. Why pay the Sony tax when the LG has better image quality, faster software, same build quality and is cheaper?

op you are retarded. Just stop trading, you can thank me later for saving you money

>>27729
I am not a Sony fan, but you have no business in investing if you won't even spend the time to digest a basic Financial report.

>>19536
>thinks software sales matter at this point

>>27084
Sony has enough cash to survive a decade, and enough assets to last at least double that.

Most of Sony is actually very profitable, and bulk of their revenue are no longer coming from TV and semi-conductor divisions. Sell those 2, and suddenly Sony will post record profits.

Simple calculation based on 4 of their profitable sectors (Financial, Picture, Music, and Games), with forecast year earnings, current outstanding shares, and conservative p/e ratio of 8. Sony is worth at least $34/share without accounting for their cash reserves and other equities.

Whether their CEO have the balls to begin selling all their shit is yet to be seen, but at least he started with VIAO and spinoff TV.

>>28453

Except he spunoff TV to be an IPO they are 100% responsible for.

He hasn't learned a damn thing.

Pictures is semi-struggling though, if Amazing 2 flops, I can't even imagine the fallout (it probably won't, but playing devil's advocate here). Insurance/banking and PlayStation are fine.

>>28150

Wow, you sure showed OP when all he did was ask questions for discussion.

>>28191

Considering there is a good amount of software available currently and the high amount of units sold, they do.

They need every penny they can get right out.

>>28453

Needs more than that. Pictures and Music are Hi-Rev, Lo-Gross with lol Margins. You take a comparative like FOX on the Pictures section where they gross $2.5 Billion revenue and take $425 gross profit. That's a good margin. While Sony's was $2.3 Billion revenue and $243 million gross with cuts in place and favorable exchange rates on top of that. That's indicative of even more change needed. Music's better margin but still spend is way, way too high (What's the bets on executive porked bonuses?)

Games spend is still ridiculously high as well. $4.2 billion revenue but $172 million profit? That is some horrific budgeting in action and needs cost cutting and restructuring ASAP.

Undervalued for sure. Why Loeb is still in there. But getting rid of PC's and spining off TV's won't be enough to do it. It needs real and drastic change, sweeping exec reforms and more agility in the market in the face of new conditions.

(Never mind that spinning off TV was a real cowardly "I CAN FIX IT!" move. Especially since it's 100% owned by Sony. Still funneling money towards the cancer and billions of it.)

>>28638
>Pictures is semi-struggling though, if Amazing 2 flops, I can't even imagine the fallout

Robocop and Monuments Men is probably Ammo for Spinning off movies and music again already since they opened poor and have bad enough reviews that people will stay away (Seems the big valentines movie was The Lego Movie from early receipts).

Will be interesting over the next quarter. Now that Kaz shows he panics under pressure (Seriously, the PC sell off was a real "Oh shit we need to cover our bad numbers" deal). Who's going to take advantage of that weakness will be interesting.

>>28731

Very well said.

>The big Valentine's movie was the Lego Movie

Good. It really deserved to be. Great movie, came out at a great time (it's an easy date movie, especially compared to fucking Robocop, lel) where it wasn't facing much competition.

I'm glad it got the recognition it deserves. Best movie thus far this year.

>there are people thinking Sony is actually going to shit
They'll be fine. There's no chance a conglomerate like that will fall under.

>>28815

>They'll be fine

Famous last words, my friend. Did you not bother reading the thread at all?

>No chance a conglomerate like that will fall under

This is Japan. Not 'Murrica. They aren't getting bailed out. So picture the bailed out American conglomerates before they got bailed out. That's where Sony is.

>>3015
I've said it before and I'll say it again, PlayStation Now will be what saves Sony's ass

>>28935
Why do you say that?

>>28935

Yeah, it'll inflate their value if they sell PlayStation.

Also, if the rumours are true about the price tag, I'm not sure it'll do that.

>>28942
cloud gaming is the future
they will be able to deliver high quality games to smartphones, computers, consoles, and every type of device possible. they will charge a monthly fee to access a collection of games, they will be using a netflix esque business model. it will make them a shit ton of money.

>>28969

>Netflix model

Except that's not what it is.

It's OnLive's model. And look how well it turned out for them.

Americans don't have good enough internet for the most part. There's input leg and compression artifacts. It's not like Netflix at all.

>>28898
>This is Japan. Not 'Murrica. They aren't getting bailed out. So picture the bailed out American conglomerates before they got bailed out. That's where Sony is.

The insurance part will get bailed in Japan. It's a separate IPO and Japanese infrastructure.

Everything else would get lumped into an asset fire sale. PM Abe said no bail outs for tech and media companies, anyway.

But then no one said GenCorp would fall under and now it's a shell of what it was in the 70's and 80's thanks to inept leadership (Yeah, I know the FCC stuff went down but a lot of it was GenCorp trying to hold monopoly and idiot execs thinking they could get away with it. They failed hard and had to spin off RKO and then sell it's assets because they fucked up so bad)

>>28989
That's because nobody knows what the hell OnLive is. Do you know how many people know of the Playstation brand?

>>28989
the world wasn't ready for OnLive

PlayStation Now will be different in my opinion

but hey I could be wrong, I'm just saying what I think will happen

>>29013

Okay. There's one problem solved.

What about dat input lag and artifacts then?

We already know Sony are using shitty servers for the service.

Look it up on YouTube to see how bad the lag is.

>>29012

Ah, you're right. I should have said that insurance/banking will be fine. My mistake. I was thinking too much of the media/tech parts.

>>29007

The world may not have been ready for OnLive, but the only major benefit PSNow has over it is name recognition, more compatible devices and possibly slightly better servers.

I'm not quite sure it'll be enough.

>>28935
>>28969
>>29007

What will happen is that Sony will spend an obscene amount for servers for a consumer enterprise that won't make much money. Other companies invested in cloud years ago and used enterprise to fund expansion (Like Amazon and Microsoft did) and who are better placed to deliver entertainment while keeping servers profitable (Amazon Instant, for example).

It's another time and money sink from Kaz Hirai. Had he been a smart CEO and seen that direction of the industry. He would have been in Amazon's pants from the time he bought Gaikai and working on a joint project to get cloud gaming going on Amazon. But he's not and here we are. And considering the timetable has also been moved up on that (Originally 2015/16 launch with a beta at the end of 2014), it's probably a lot more fucking money.

See, this is what we're trying to hammer into /v/isitors about WHY Sony is in the gutter. Constant bad executive decisions.

>>29127
Casuals don't care about input lag. Hell, they don't even know what it is. Casuals don't look into the things they buy, they just buy because it looks cool. It's the very same reason Alienware is still around.

Since the old thread is dying. Lets continue here.

>>29163

Setup costs for the service will be astronomical though. Especially as Sony was so arrogant to believe they wouldn't need a partner for it.

It's not just about input lag. It's about quality of service provided and economics of it. So far they have remained coy with "Rental" and "Subscription" plans and their refusal to play ball with other, better equipped companies means this is going to be expensive and probably not worth it for what they provide. Netflix fucking use Amazon S3. Why couldn't Sony?

Current Sony retains a shitload of what the old Sony was notorious for like the Sony Tax and Sony Arrogance (They bought Columbia Studios from Coca-Cola at an obscenely overvalued price to assert dominance in Hollywood and try make the studios play ball on their home formats. They didn't count on resistance from Murdoch et all) without the old Sony quality to back that up and PS Now feels like it's going to be the same. Had they said "We're doing this in partnership with Amazon". Then it would have been a brilliant idea. Now the rumor is Microsoft and Amazon are getting cozy over gaming and all I can think of is that Sony missed that boat big time.

Sony gonna Sony.

Also this is probably going to turn into a general since there's bound to be some shitstorm over two massive Cinema flops in two weeks over at Sony pictures (The Monuments Men and Robocop).

>>11795
It's a Japanese thing.

>>28638
>Considering there is a good amount of software available currently
yeah... no. Console software sales have always been shit until a good year in when all the AAA developers start kicking

>>32395

A few years ago, yeah. Now, Panasonic, Sharp and most of the Motor companies saw the signs and streamlined years back and stopped trying to manufacture everything.

Sony's the last hold out, yelling "We can make everything!" while the business world says "Except make money".

>>28731
>weakness
selling bad department is a strength. Look at how panasonic is doing after selling off their shit departments.

Except some of Sony's are far more profitable

>>32775

Panasonic wound down and sold departments after bad quarters in a controlled manner. TV was done after a bad quarter where they announced the SR series would be their final panel produced. They didn't have "Oh shit we're getting rid of TV" just before a quarter announcement. The way VAIO was sold reeked of Fire sale offloading to try get news off the low margins and pull positive spin along with the TV Spin off. And it worked, for some strange reason.

And on top of that, the VAIO brand is so toxic that when Lenovo were first linked to it, it crashed Lenovo's share price and Sony had to put out a statement that Lenovo were never interested. That they can get rid of it instead of having to wind it down is pretty amazing.

Kaz has weakness that he makes snap decisions out of pressure. The Vaio sale could have been done a lot more smoothly and done less obvious to hide slim margins (Hell if they reported the quarter without that news of PC and TV. The media probably would have been dominated with "Sony still finds way to fuck up. Only makes 4% profit off PS4 launch revenue". Smart in a way, but also showing Kaz will make panic decisions on the wire).

>>32954
Who cares how they did it, or why they did it. They just need to do it

Buyer of brand almost always get their shares lower, that's how it works. Are you new? Look at Comcast stock after announcing merger with Time warner.

I don't care what Kaz do or his reasoning behind it, he just need to get rid of their cancer and do nothing for his entire term and Sony's stock will skyrocket.

p.s Every assets can be sold. People even pay premium for shits like black berry and Motorola. It may be toxic for the original company, but new ones will always find use for them (patent, technologies, engineer teams etc)

>>12900
>Apple
>not Amazon

m8.

>>33001
Addition to this.

http://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/203.asp

"When a firm acquires another entity, there usually is a predictable short-term effect on the stock price of both companies. In general, the acquiring company's stock will fall while the target company's stock will rise. "

>>30655
>RoboCop
>flop

Are you sure there m8? The box office numbers look pretty solid at the moment.

>>33028
Sony won't bankrupt in a decade. They have enough cash reserve to last a decade, and way more enough assets to last another.

They'd just sell off their toxic departments way before that would happen.

>>33075
I was replying to the statement that Microsoft would sell Xbox to Apple. The rumor is if that happened it would most likely be Amazon.

>>33001
>>33037

>"he just need to get rid of their cancer and do nothing for his entire term and Sony's stock will skyrocket."

Every other department except insurance has shockingly slim revenue to profit margins. It's not a case of "CUT OFF THE CANCER AND SHARES WILL ROCKET!". The cancer has spread to the entire company. It needs sweeping reforms and streamlining to identify where the fuck those margins are disappearing to.

This is what you are not getting. Company fixes are needed. Not cutting the cancer. Whatever departments board let the PS4 out to that much success and still reported that margin would be taken out back and shot at any other company because there's a huge fuck up in budge and making a profitable product in there.

On top of that, the very rumor Lenovo was acquiring it dropped Lenovo stock. Usually stock drops ON purchase. If it drops before purchase on a simple rumor on a publicly traded company then there is huge problems with the acquisition (Sony got lucky it's a Private firm then)

>>33068

Holiday weekend blockbuster. $25 million opening weekend expected. Possibly less. Shit's a huge bust.

>>19172
R&D isn't free and money-hatting all those third parties into giving the PS4 exclusive content for multiplats won't come cheap.

>>33178
>Every other department except insurance has shockingly slim revenue to profit margins

>Don't read the financial reports

Come back when you stop being lazy, and no, stock drops immediately on both (strong) rumor and announcements.

>tfw have shares in Sony

How fucked am I?

>>33238
Depends whether you believe Sony will continue with sell offs and spinoffs most of their electronics and semi conductors/batteries.

If they do, you'll get a very hefty returns. If not, you're fucked

>>33216
Cheap relative to software licensing

Given how many PS4 sold and is still selling, their game division revenue and operating income is going to skyrocket a year from now.

Why can't Sony just lower their prices on their products? I mean, every Sony item I've owned has lasted me a long time and has worked great. The only reason they're really falling behind is that for the most part you can get the same quality electronics for a little cheaper.

>>33236

I have read the financial reports. Everything except insurance is slim. Hell, let's go further and do some number crunching for you.

Sony pictures. $2.5 billion revenue. $243 gross profit. 9.79% profit margin

Twentieth Century fox made the same on their pictures division. $2.5 Billion. Reported $425 Million. 17% profit margin.

Comcast, under the Universal Banner, posted $1.4 Billion revenue. Gross profit. $192 million with a 13.7% margin.

Disney posted $1.9 Billion Revenue in it's pictures segment. Gross revenue $409 Million. Margin was 21.5%

If that doesn't demonstrate it to you how fucked Sony is in all its departments and needs vast sweeping changes when companies that make less post much better profit margins and can run a fucking company then you have no hope at all.

>>33178
> "CUT OFF THE CANCER AND SHARES WILL ROCKET!"

Precisely. Let's say Sony cut off everything but leave out their profitable departments, with a conservative 600 million per quarter (financial is $400-500, this is an extremely conservative figure). This would give them $2.4 billion annual operating income

PE ratio for this sector are usually in the high teens, but let's just give it 10. With 1 billion outstanding shares, this implies $24 / share (it is 18 as of now).

This is a very conservative figure with low PE and low earnings. Realistically cutting off their cancer they would rake in much more than the $2.4b figure.

>>33270

Current run is fueled by that plus Apple hovering around. Sensor deal is good. Rumor is Apple is real interested in taking film and music (Hence why Hirai won't spin that. Apple could easily start a proxy war with shareholders).

I'd hold for now and wait till it plays into the next quarterly.

>>33401
Because they still think they deserve a premium over Korean goods that outperform them.

That Japanese pride.

>>33492

Pictures profit has been volatile the last few years as has games. $200-300 million per quarter is more realistic as pictures in particular can be hit with poor greenlighting (See last summer's slate of duds like After Earth and The Smurfs 2). The cancer is in management and the CEO being a Stringer lieutenant Sony/CBS carrying on where Stringer left off. It needs a house clean and a new CEO on top of cutting cancerous divisions. Then we might be talking even better margins like $800 million and up.

And it's $17 at the minute. It's not hard to check Marketwatch, y'know.

>>33424
>Twentieth Century fox
Not sure how you get $425, I got $337. Putting it at 13%.

Same quarter for Sony is 2.1 billion with 231 operating income, or 10.8%.

Granted Sony does not have top of the line margin, but its gross profit fares well against its competitors. Flat line $150m cost cut will further boost the division

>>33615
How is 200-300M per quarter, when financial guarantees 450-500m per quarter?

Yes, their picture are volatile, but it RARELY post losses. Pictures + Music + game division can easily rake in $200. Those are very conservative values.

>>33615
Additionally, I'm not arguing Sony needs a house cleaning. They could use one

I'm simply stating that even without house cleaning, Sony shares can surge without doing a single thing, just need to fire everyone and sell off their cancers

>>33519

Shamefur dispray indeed.

I hope Kaz gets the axe and just commits seppuku already. Greedy stubborn fuck.