/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>8212440
Every other country in the world has heavy trade tariffs on the US for every single good. Sometimes a flat rate but usually 10-20% at least.

The US has gotten used to outsourcing everything that can be shipped on a barge to another country because of this.

All these tariffs do is bring us in line with other countries. Raw materials are only the start, we need to have these carry over to manufactured goods also.

Get outside of your bubble and try to import shit to other countries outside of you carry on bag while you are on vacation. You will notice how far behind the US is on this.

>>8212440
im just hoping trade wars wont become hot wars. not going to become fodder for the bankster oligarchs.

>>8212440
In line with what the rest of the world charges.


They actually pale in comparison to China’s tariffs.

another Chaos move by the Chaos Master notice I use a capital C this is because we are seeing leadership from the first real Alpha president since Teddy Roosevelt you are wringing your little yellow hands over this "oh my neoliberal economics professor at Vassar told me this is bad" it's not bad at all it's going to help everyone on the planet

>>8212440

every other country on the planet is using trade tariffs you brainlet. the chinks wont even let western companies into their country they simply steal all the tech and create their chink knockoffs. also look into what the EU is doing in terms of protectionism you utter moron

>inb4 hurr durr muh drump is stoopid muh pol nahzees

>>8212440
chinese just basically implemented a ruler for life, which means he'll wage war at some point (all dictators do)

We need to be able to make steel and aluminum to feed the army, pretty simple but most people are retarded. Domestic steel is vital for national security

>>8212440

"Negotiable" tariffs.

>>8212440

>I got BTFO on pol and now hope that you bizfags can just agree with me even though Im an idiot and have no clue wtf Im talking about

>>8212530
WOW

I came here from /pol/ because that place is full of retards and expected people here to be SMART and AGREE with ME

FUCKING RETARDS EVERYWHERE FUCK DRUMPF

>>8212530

I am a metal worker, we recently received an order of pipe that we buy almost weekly, and it was $1 more per foot. This specifically is galvanized pipe which is not very expensive compared to stainless and aluminum which we also order, and comes from Korea, usually averaging 5 or 6$ dollars per foot. Luckily we have relatively large contracts, so we can bill the customer for it. But that is a significant cost increase

tariffs hurt only domestic people as items become more expensive. if usa dont have tariffs and others do that is good for murican purchasing power

trump looks only trade deficits he does not look investments which are surpluss for usa. trade is super small compared to investment money

>>8212615
Good thing your company can use the tax break that they received to offset the increased cost of materials.

>>8212440
fuck up faggot.

>>8212530
You dont really get the whole idea behind a teade war do you brainlet?
Free trade agreements over the whole world means less tariffs for governement which promotes local industry unless there is someone undercutting (cue China)
USA imposes tariff on steel to Europe. Europe retaliates by increasing tariff on exported meat from USA. USA retaliates by introducing tariff on cars from Europe. Europe retaliates by introducing tariff on grain.
Do you understand now simple jack?
Nobody wins especially local industry.
What have you imported? The USA gets fucked over by every state having their own GST that varies wildly from state to state. Your brainlet republic is to blame not imagined up tariffs from other countries.

>>8212604
lmao this

>>8212604
Go back to your soy latte soy boy.

/biz/ knows the US is way over due for a legitmate tariff schedule

>>8212559
Amen.

>>8212530
Free trade allows us to get access to goods at the lowest prices. The only way tariffs might be necessary is if the American economy were too reliant on foreign companies, but that's not really the case. Most foreign companies that do well in America (Toyotas, Mercedes) are companies that provide some value to Americans and so are better off being allowed to do business with us.

Tariffs are fine. But they have to be negotiated. You don't do that shit when you feel like it.
Trump's tariffs hurt America because America relies a lot on exports. It's bad for a country so used to exploiting free trade agreements.

>>8212649
that dude is not OP and is being sarcastic you literal brainlet

Steel tariff to be set at 25%, aluminum at 10%

Beyond that, proclamations almost identical
To take effect in 15 days
Official says may have to raise tariffs modestly on everyone else if Canada, Mexico excluded long-term; adds document flexible enough to allow that
On exclusions:

Canada, Mexico will be specifically exempted from both tariffs initially
Trump has linked the exemptions to Nafta talks ongoing; exemption isn’t open-ended, official says
For other countries, will have ability to modify order owing to national security
European countries and others could be able to request exclusion
On economic impact:

White House official says there will be no significant downstream price effects, and thus no significant downstream job effects
Expectation counters multiple statements and prognostications from several companies and industry groups that use steel and aluminum, as well as lawmakers representing them, who have warned the tariffs will harm their businesses or industries
Only job effects White House sees are positive ones in U.S. steel, aluminum industries: official
Says process extremely, carefully well vetted
* * *

During Trump's address, the president discussed specific countries, noting that the US is open to modifying tariffs for "friendly" nations countries.

China - the US is negotiating but Trump says that while he has "great respect" for President Xi, he says "I don't know if anything is going to come" of talks with China.
Canada and Mexico - the tariffs won't apply to these countries if a Nafta deal can be made. Therefore, they won't go into effect while negotiations are still going. The AP reports that Trump is also not going to apply tariffs even if Nafta is terminated but this was less clear in his press conference remarks.

>>8212440
>tell me why this is bad
That’s what you’re asking right? >>8212604
This

>>8212654
If you knew a thing about the US economy you would realize it’s a one way street... IN!!

We export almost nothing, hence our ridiculous billion dollar trade defecits

>>8212440
Fuck off back to Redddit u soyboy cuck

>>8212647

>muh free trade
there is no free trade if other countries have tariffs you moron

>imagined up tariffs from other countries

I cant even...
to think that retards like you are allowed to participate in the political process

>>8212649
If you couldn't tell he was joking you seriously need to go back to r*ddit

>>8212604
I mean you need to accept reality my dude. In the real world corporate greed and outsourcing has been taking a massive shit on the American worker for decades now, and the income inequality reflects this.

I do not agree with his approach of implementation , you will shock the markets with this move. You need a gradual plan that increases over a decade or so, that way American businesses do not get sticker shock on shit they used to source cheap and companies can be built up to fill the void.

All politics aside this is a step in the right direction, he just lept instead of taking baby steps.

>>8212682
I wouldn't trust the lying White House for any legitimate analysis on the matter, like their shitty tax plan assessment.

>>8212694
Because US is mostly a service economy rather than relying solely on manufacturing like other countries

>>8212709
Tariffs and trade wars never end in a good result, it always leads to a worse situation than it was before.

>>8212530
This unironically. Sorry OP.

>>8212654
Yeah dude NWO for life, I am sure we will be a global society any day now. When the rest of the world stops taxing our exports I will completely agree with you. But meanwhile all this does is motivate corporate entities to use essentially slave labor in developing countries to source goods and raw materials.

This reduces our overall economic velocity as there are a lot of undereducated people in the US. Not everyone can do highly technical work, you need to keep the monkeys busy doing something.

Until we are a post capitalistic society, it makes zero sense to allow every country in the world to provide a product cheaper than you can on your own soil. This will take levels of automation we have never seen before coupled with a new paradigm on how we treat non participating members of society.

In summary take you minor in Econ you got from community college and shove it up your ass.

>>8212784
>Tariffs... never end in a good result
Tell that to the rest of the world?

>>8212784

Currency wars, trade wars, shooting wars.

>>8212604
I like how retards replied to this like it wasn't sarcasm

>>8212819
>>8212825

>>8212867
Thank you Ben Shapiro, so wise omg the economy is a grocery store! I had no idea it could be so simple!

>>8212647

>I think I understand macroeconomics and game theory: the post.

You are such a huge brainlet that even imagine your stupidity would cause my brain to collapse into a black hole.

>>8212867
What the fuck does this have to do with economic velocity and motivating US companies to buy US sourced goods and services?

BTW this dude is like every other entrenched brainlet against Trump, the main theme is Trump can do nothing right and every decision he makes is automatically bad.

Take a real unbiased look at every political decision and make up your own mind, don't be a sheep and stand on the shoulders of other peoples degrees and achievements to assume correctness.

>>8212440
You're on 4chan, it's been the focus of a heavy astroturfing campaign, the actual opinions are being drowned out by noise

>>8212639

We'll see how it works out

>>8212709
>In the real world corporate greed and outsourcing has been taking a massive shit on the American worker for decades now,
No, it hasn't.
> and the income inequality reflects this.
No, it doesn't.
>>8212825
> Tell that to the rest of the world?
I tried, but they are too stupid and want to remain shitholes.

Tariffs incentivize domestic production of whatever good is being taxed. Tariffs on things like steel & aluminum means that the USA will actually have a chance at supplying our own needs when SHTF.

>>8212440
It seems like the wages/purchasing power/quality of life in America has been arbitraged with all of the citizens living in our trade partners' country working the same jobs. The net increase in wealth is going to shareholders and businesses and isnt really making life better for average joe who is now competing with labor in china/mexico.

Thats just my intuition, feel free to teach me.

>>8213077
Great counterpoints, this shit is not hard to look up:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_inequality_in_the_United_States

>>8213105
That's because America voted for a corporate dicksucker like Trump. they should have voted for the man who actually wants the to put Wall Street into line, like Sanders.

>>8213143
>Great counterpoints
Glad you agree.

To be honest I regret spending my time defending this fucker in 2016.
Still better than Killary, though

>>8213151
jesus fucking christ.........................

>>8213270
Yeah, keep getting cucked by your jewish corporate cock sucking president then.

>Trade wars are good

>>8213151
>>8213289
there are many more corporations that consume/utilize steel than producers. the tariff is intended to help local producers, not all corporations as it impacts their costs. the other guy is right, you are retarded.

>>8212440
nothing is implemented yet, they will in 15 days. until that time, countries are free to negotiate.
and it doesn't affect Canada, Mexico or Australia.
it's a negotiating tactic at this point. in 15 days we'll know more.

>>8213346
see
>>8212719

>>8213346

How are those consumers of steel going to get supplies when SHTF?

Tariffs may be less efficient than free trade now, but it's better to have a robust domestic economy that can weather disruptions of the global trade network.

>>8213346
See
>>8212670

>>8213289
>Sanders
>not a jewish cocksucker

I literally don't have a wojak that looks dumb enough for this statement

>>8212647
but
other countries DO have tariffs on U.S. goods
you dippy, condescending prick

obviously tariffs are not good for the free market, and obviously they suck fucking cocks in that sense—but, another thing that's not good for the free market in the long run is having one country discourage the purchasing of your goods by those under their governance—and doing absolutely nothing in return, allowing them to run a fucking monopoly on global physical resource growth that's fuelled by what amounts to work-to-the-bone slavery while you and everyone else that has a government that at least somewhat cares about your citizens' lives and health sits in place and feeds money to them to fund their communist plantations, and then they inevitably take over the world because the world's production facilities for everything have been totally centralized in their land and they own all the intellectual property and they own your politicians and your media and—despite having the technology to never need to have people work in miserable conditions ever again—they're communists, and like all communists, they have to fucking explode people with artillery guns in public executions and make you work 14 hours every day for the promise of freedom and they police your thoughts and torture you severely while beating you and then raping, impregnating, and forcing gut-punch abortions on your wife if you dissent, etcetera etcetera

you have to remember
*all* communism leads to human suffering
*all* communism is led by delusion, and is—by its nature—authoritarian
chinese people can be great people, like anyone else
but their government
is *communist*
and they think that people have to hurt, and that they should be the ones to inflict the pain
they are comfortable with some of the worst torture imaginable, *in modern times,* for christ's sake
just
remember that, when you think of all the money that's pouring into their government
trump is, evidently, saving everyone's ass

Nobody on Biz understands economics let alone trade. Like not even the basic toddler tier Ricardian model. I dont bother anymore because nobody wants to learn they just want to shout.

>>8213453
Well, I don't see him making tax plans that pander to the jews (muh reaganomics), going to jerusalem to pander to the jews, relaxing rules for banks and wall street for the corporate jews like he did. In fact, Sanders called him out on all of these.

Well, at least this is all historical. Just the never ending cycle of "Republicans fuck over the economy, Democrats fix the economy" cycle

trump is literally doing what he campaigned on and what america voted him in for
and yet butthurt leftards are sperging out over it. get a job you commie POS and let the man do his job.

>>8213450
The point is they WILL BE NEGOTIATED YOU ABSOLUTE FUCKING BRAINLET.

You're on /biz/ for christ sake, have you never heard of fucking leverage?

>>8213430
i don't disagree with anything you said. it's a national security policy more than a trade policy.

>>8212670
Its reliant on imports to.
You are shooting yourself in the foot then negotiating to make sure they only shoot you in the other foot.

>>8213523
Then why was Trump so stupid that his statements and actions are starting a trade war? He had to be convinced like the manchild that he is that it should be negotiated.

>>8213490

mate if you think china is communist, you are a bit out of touch

>>8213521
He's not making any tax plans because
1.He's a virtue signalling kike
2.He didn't get elected

>>8213556

>hurr durr muh drump is stoopid
>muh trade war muh nuclear codes

you fags should really switch off CNN and get some fresh air
youre embarrassing yourself. also you got 7 more years of trump so you better get used to it faggot.

>>8213573
>virtue signalling kike
Yeah, "muh subjective signalling" matters more than policy for you drumpftards, that's why you're considered brainlets by the rest of the world.

>>8213589
Well, this thread proves how stupid you people are. Trump idiots from /pol/ defending everything he does.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_United_States_steel_tariff

What trump is planning is a lot worse.

>>8213556
The point is to put a squeeze on countries that we have unfair trade relationships with, in order to either even the scales, or force them to renegotiate their own tariffs.

Along with the reduction in corporate taxes, it will also incentivize american manufacturing as other alternatives dry up

Literally, America first, the platform he's been running on this entire time. No one is surprised by this move but absolute morons and jews

>>8213490
Some human suffering is ok for the benefit of the whole.
Welfare countries can't compete with countries that don't give a shit unless they declare war or whatever.

>>8212440
literally a whos who trying to stir shit up again. Why is everyone obedient and letting him do all this?

>>8213623
>No one is surprised by this move but absolute morons and jews

people are shocked that he actually does what he promised.

>>8213623
Can you actually illustrate which tariffs you are trying to recipricate? Like worst case scenario you are trading at WTO prices.

>>8213623
Reduction in corporate taxes IS a good move. I think everybody agrees on that. The problem is that Trump is reducing rules on the corrupt jewish wall street elite while reducing taxes on them.

>>8212848
It’s /pol/ they spend about 80% of their time falling for and being enraged by satire.

>>8212530
This is why every single country has much higher general consumer prices you absolute dumbfuck

As a Leaf I find them fucking great. We will keep our exception for the length of the charade, and in the mean time We get to overcharge yanks for our Steel exports. Find better markets for American good receiving reciprocal tariffs we export and get a good price importing them.
Anyone know what the RoO are? Wouldn't be surprised if Trump made it easily exploitable.

What's the problem? He's a really nice and intelligent guy, and besides, let's give him a chance.

fuck drumpf and fuck white people

>>8213623
You don't do that by signing the bill immediately you stupid fuck. You do it in the negotiating table first.

But as expected of Trump, he acts first, thinks later

>>8212440
>Can we talk about the tarriffs that Trump implemented
>no actual talk about the tariffs just butthurt anti-Trump faggots crying

>>8212440
the US has been sold inferior steel for some time now. (reasoning behind the twin towers falling and trump hinting on telling the american public the exact reasoning "maybe we will find out the true reasons why they fell") NIST was a cover for what? im not a conspiracy theorist i just know a steel building has never collapsed because of fire (jet fuel has nothing to do with it, doesnt make it any hotter) not to mention 3 buildings in the same day. i tell you what this is more than just tariffs, that i know for a fact.

>>8213791
But it's literally the opposite. Itt.
>>8213798
Made me chuckle.

>>8213173
This. Regardless of what you think about this specific move, Trump is an absolute retard and a huge national embarrassment. The only reason he won is that Clinton was somehow a perfect storm of being overconfident, incompetent and unrelatable. At least Trump’s retardation is occasionally entertaining.

>>8213791

>mfw trump will guarantee a 7-year supply of liberal tears

>>8213835
>tfw you trash your own economy to own the libs
haha gottem Liberal tears XD!

>>8213660
I honestly don't know specifics on which tariffs are held against us, or which ones he is going after. this anon summarized the positions well>>8212682

>>8213671
You can never beat the jews at wall street. But the truth is, our corporate taxes are more of an entry barrier to smaller corporations, as economies of scale are harder with a smaller market cap. Lower taxing brings back jobs from overseas because the US has had historically the highest corporate tax rate in the world. If we raise taxes on corporations this would in effect push out market competition because those at the top would be unaffected.

Its not about redistributing wealth - you'd have to be an absolute fool to think raising taxes would somehow address income inequality, or that this is actually a thing we have to worry about.

Can you name a single time in our history where increased corporate regulations had the intended affect on the market? Do you think the elites don't thrive from regulations by pushing out the little guys and lining the pockets of politicians to push "consumer protections" and "regulations"?

The whole system is built to benefit those at the top and place barriers to entry for everyone else. I mean just look at the US "Certified investor" laws. It's fucking ridiculous
>can't make money unless your a rich jew regulations.

And you'd put in a guy like Bernie who would RAISE taxes across the board and give free handouts to all minorities, just so we could all be fucking poor, and the jews at the top would still have massive (albeit smaller) profits? Are you fucking insane?

tariffs make things more expensive for normal people. they wont bring jobs back. low taxes bring jobs and and more money in

>>8213860

im not even american bucko
i still enjoy seeing you retards sperging out.

>>8213860
>>tfw you trash your own economy

Read up retards, it has been tried before

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_United_States_steel_tariff

Look at the results

>>8213871

>lets just lower taxes to a point that US workers can compete with chink slave labour

>>8212784
>US is mostly a service economy

US is a service economy BECAUSE of tarriff-free imports, anon. Manufacturing left the US because cheaper labour was available overseas.

Post hoc ergo propter hoc but it's actually true in this instance.

>>8213864
The reason I ask is americans seem to falsely believe they are getting screwed on trade (whatever that means.) But there is never any evidence to back it up, usually they result to flawed understanding of trade deficits (imports =bad exports =good) or more recently naming terrible tariffs without actually citing any.
>>8213895
>money printing
Lmao at your life.

>>8213903

kek. Why is Trump purposely trying to make America look bad? He's following in the same steps as Bush but instead of taking 1 or 2 steps hes taking fucking giant leaps forward

>>8212440
>>8212530
I don't think you brainlets get it do you?
When the metal working something majigger mabob sells for 1.20$ at 5% each doober dongers the price of it is taxed by state and land with the amendment right of the Caroline index webpage organization, flibber flabber jig jaw doze doe jagged magger maggot flim flam patty whack give a dog a bone.

cheap labor outside = higher quality of life. if somebody produces things with super low cost it's much better than producing on your own. usa and eu are very happy if they can produce things in asia. people overlook this completely. low taxes then attract capital and give more purchasing power for median people

>>8213714
>implying I'm not /pol/
Fuck banks fuck Jews, an ethnostate for every race

>>8213864
>Bernie who would RAISE taxes across the board
Progressive income taxes, and more so on the rich? Sure, I'm totally up for that.
Lower corporate taxes, up for that as well.

But what I really support is putting the wall street cucks in line, unlike Trump who was bound to suck their assholes like the good billionare he is. The top 1% is literally fucking over you and you let them. It's pretty sad.

i dont care about any of this unless it fucks with my NEO holdings.

you saved me tax money god emporer, now make me a magic internet richboi

>>8213980

yeah lets just outsource all the work to third world countries
never mind if half the population will end up jobless and cant afford anything. the biggest issue is that we can import plastic crap for a couple of cents cheaper!

>>8214009
much because of this cheap labor in asia standard of living have boomed in the west since 2ww.

>>8213959
People don't need to know the specific trade tariffs from other countries in order for them to exist, and for the US to feel the ramifications of massive trade deficits.

Shit's been happening for years. My dad was recently laid off from his job just before retirement because his entire companies is outsourcing their jobs to street shitters

production will be automated in 10 years anyway. there wont be traditional jobs anyhow for muricans. it's the higher tech that requires now constantly work force. regular jobs for uneducated will disappear completely

>>8212440
As an ausfag, whos government continuously sells us and our resources out to the highest bidder I think its good to promote the use of US products in the US.

>>8214009
But then why does the USA have a historically low unemployment rate? Insane GDP a growing economy and good standards of living?
Also are you insinuating chinks are just giving you electronics for free, nothing exchange? That doesnt sound like trade but it sounds like a great deal to me.

>>8212530
List all these other countries with a 20% tariff on us goods

>>8214022

its funny how you retards live in complete bizarroland
standard of living has been tanking for the last couple of decades by all metrics. and thats exactly the same timeframe when all the production was outsourced to third world shithole.
the era of prosperity you are talking about was from 50s to the 80-90s and that was when shit was still made in america. but why do I even bother, you commies live in fantasyland and have no regards for facts or objective reality anyway.

>>8213996
the top 1% of earners don't affect my personal income in the slightest. How dense are you? How does someone making a product or service that is successful suddenly mean I am poor? You have a babies understanding of what our "income inequality" actually means

>>8213728
And a higher standard of living.

>>8214067
Standard of living has only increased since ww2 you numb skull

>>8214044

>People don't need to know the specific trade tariffs from other countries in order for them to exist,
They kinda do if they want to use them as an argument for a policy... i know fuck all about climate change, thats fine. But I dont make policy or argue about it online.
>and for the US to feel the ramifications of massive trade deficits.
oh god here we go. Please tell me them.
I need to tatoo "trade balance is just a savings equation" on my fucking forehead.
>Shit's been happening for years. My dad was recently laid off from his job just before retirement because his entire companies is outsourcing their jobs to street shitters
Boo fucking hoo anon. The economy can't survive just trying to satiate all unskilled frictional unemployment. The world will leave you behind.

>>8213895
Lmao literally “zoom out” on half of those shitty graphs.

>>8214057

unemployment numbers are heavily manipulated (inb4 muh tinfoil). they dont even count people that drop out of the market. GDP is growing because corporations make insane amounts of money exactly because they can just outsource their labour to third world shitholes. but standard of living, purchasing power all thosemetrics have been tanking. in other words the corps make a killing but the workers sees less and less from that money.

please expain to me how it benefits an average american worker if his job gets outsourced to some third worlder? now instead of competing with his fellow americans he has to compete with with the entire world and third worlders who are willing to work for a fraction of his wages. do you even supply and demand? this is really basic economics 101 and its embarrassing that we even have to have a conversation about this.

>>8214070
>the top 1% of earners don't affect my personal income in the slightest
Now you're just being naive, and you call me dense. You argue that they want to fuck over the lower class and you say they don't affect your personal income?

Trump's tax plan will fuck over the middle class by the end of the decade, with trillions of dollars in deficits to boot.

Let me simplify it for your brainlet head.
Progressive tax = good
reduce progressive tax and increase regressive tax = bad

>>8214098

GDP has increased. median household income has decreased.
in other words corps make more money and workers make less
please kys and exit yourself from this conversation. thank you.

>>8214067
no that is complete nonsense. this claim that outsourcing production is somehow lead cause of less jobs and less purchasing power. purchasing power decline for housing for example is mainly driven by 1000 year low interest rates, qe and high taxes

>>8214182
pointless statistic. what you can buy with your money has radically increased.

>>8213835
wouldn't last a few more years with the rate he is going.

>>8214184

lmao then please explain to me how outsourcing jobs leads to more jobs
please, im really dying to hear that.
you do understand the concept of suplly and demand no?

>>8212819
kys commie faggot

>>8214231
it's not a zero sum game.

>>8214211
except for real estate, healthcare, education, rent, food, gas

>>8214211

no again its the exact opposite. the purchasing power has decreased substantially in the last decades.
its funny how you fags get literally EVERYTHING wrong and upside down. complete disregard for facts and reality

In these darkest days we NEED a strong and smart leader like Trump. Obama policies work when we don't have evil enemies trying to destroy our freedom. Frankly i feel that removing this idiotic 4 year term limit will be for the best. Trump and Pence will save us, but it will take more than 4 or even 8 years for their plans to come into fruitition.

>>8214182
Do you know what standard of living is? Huur a loaf of bread was cheaper 50 years ago. People also died from the common cold and your great grandmother was spending three hours a day scrubbing clothes in the river.

>>8214231
if chinks produce things for tiny cost for you it's huge plus for all citizens. forcing those jobs back is not definitely the answer if your aim is to increase purchasing power for common goods

>>8213988
You do realize that China and Japan both have their own share of minorities?

>>8214241

lmao youre really dense arent you?
if your job goes to pajeet then how do you benefit from that?
how is this not a zero sum game?
please explain, I really wanna hear your thoughts on it.

>>8214246
Wrong.

You had a shack and car for a life's work in 50's. A shack and a car.

>>8214270
Because new markets emerge.

>>8214264

>its great that we can import cheap crap from china
>even if half the population is jobless and cant afford to buy it

we are really going in circles here I guess
this is getting a bit boring desu
but it doesnt really matter since the people voted trump and trump does what benefits america. so you morons can whine all you want but he will MAKE. AMERICA. GREAT. AGAIN. whether you like it or not.

>>8214297
>even if half the population is jobless
well, you can just claim that they are

>>8214271

in the 50s a single income could feed a family.
now you got people working multiple jobs to barely get by
seriously how can you completely ignore all the facts and turn everything upside down? are you a jew? lol

>>8214312
>in the 50s a single income could feed a family.
it can today to if you move into the middle of nowhere and give up all technology and live a 50's lifestyle.

A shack and a car. lol.

>>8212627
>it's a good thing to sell off our assets to pay for current consumption

>>8214293

whjat new markets? what are you even talking about here?
can you maybe form a coherent sentence instead of throwing out lazy one liners
are you seriuosly implying all the jobless steel workers are now gonna become robot technicians lmao

>>8214141
>they dont even count people that drop out of the market.
Disgruntled searchers are a very negible number and people who drop out obviously dont need a job to begin with. Now to collect many benefits you have to declare unemployment this counters disgruntled searchers and then some.
>GDP is growing because corporations make insane amounts of money exactly because they can just outsource their labour to third world shitholes.
C + I +G +Exports - imports.
Plug this increase in imports into the equation moron.
>but standard of living, purchasing power all thosemetrics have been tanking.
Actually no US income has been growing way ahead CPI and thats before technology, substiution or quality bias. Standard of living has been mooning just cause of tech alone
>in other words the corps make a killing but the workers sees less and less from that money.
Fuck off tankie. Rich are getting richer poor are getting richer everyone wins even if muuh gap grows. Its not zero sum.
>please expain to me how it benefits an average american worker
Simple Wages are growing CPI is going down. But ill give you the benefit of the doubt and say you meant grossly overstated marginal worker in effected fields. Like everything there are winners and losers. Everyone wins except steel workers from freedom and they get more than steel workers lose. But sure the USA could do more for frictional unemployment, retraining etc.
>if his job gets outsourced to some third worlder? now instead of competing with his fellow americans he has to compete with with the entire world and third worlders who are willing to work for a fraction of his wages.
Yes welcome to comperative advantage. But wealth isnt money it goods. Seriously google comparative advantage you moron. China makes it cheaper in COMPARISON to other goods. Thats why the USD price is low. But they have to buy shit for it to matter.
>basic economics 101
Something tells me your background isnt econ anon...

>Trump announces tariffs
>Europe announces counter tariffs
>Trade war ensues
>America loses jobs
>Europe loses jobs
>America begins utilizing more natural resources to reinvigorate the economy, selling the 1/3 of the country that is owned by the federal government to private citizens
>European countries are about tapped out on natural resources, can't pick up the slack
>America starves the European welfare state while it's being swarmed by low skill, low wage illiterates from an actively hostile culture
>Globalists scream in horror as a new dawn of nationalism sweeps across the continent

8-D underwater backgammon. I'm perfectly okay with this.

>>8212547
>>8212587
>>8212530
>>8212530

>Every other country in the world has heavy trade tariffs on the US for every single good

Source?

Whatever, enjoy severely increased prices from literally everywhere.

Look dude I know how it all happened. First, there was this white dude right, who was like, all white and shit. Then there was this duded named NAFTA who like was, dang dude, this shit right here and right there could be free. But not for the white man. So all these lil shits from Kentucky named Mitch McConnell and Ivanka Trump entered the picture, that's when all hell broke loose.

It was a set up by the liberals to take us back too far. We needed to go back when things were great, not when things were slate.

>huur we need to limit economic growth because Billy Bob needs his dead shit factory job!
>fucking communists trying to oppose tarrif!
Whose the communist here

>>8214327
>A shack and a car. lol.

yeah never mind that people had houses paid off, multiple vacations all that
never mind that postwar decades were the most prosperous time in human history. people lived in shacks
uh huh
whatever anon Im about to get some sleep. enjoy your 7 years of trump.

>>8213770
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZ7zQbMxm28


Fuck you nigger, USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA!

>>8212440
>Logic is winning where I normally go, so now instead of realizing I'm wrong I'm literally searching for someone to agree with me somewhere else.

>>8214332
>Actually no US income has been growing way ahead CPI and thats before technology

I literally just posted a stat showing that median household income went down
not even bother with the rest of your badly formatted post.

>>8214364
A shack paid off and no vacations
You are living in lala land

>>8214327
>>8214271
ur not from around these parts huh

>>8214342
>Source?

you do realize that china doesnt even let western companies compete in their market?
they literally have chink knockoff for facebook, google, etc.
i mean seriously, how ignorant and uninformed are you guys about the rest of the world. how do you expect muh free trade with countries whose business model is the complete opposite of free trade.

>>8214297
i would have voted trump too. this has nothing to do with republican-democrat fistfight, i could not care less about that. rather look things rationally. many voters, trump including, have no clue of how these things really works. good thing is trump has lowered taxes, especially corporate tax level so that usa can be competitive against europe. that has already bought in billions and billions of dollars

let's say you got a car factory back, then hire muricans, who ofcourse demand a decent salary that is on par with their countrymen and that can provide living => high cost of employers, taxes and benefits etc. => high prices of goods produced.

>>8214336
Nah. What actually happens

>America loses jobs
>Europe loses jobs
>Both sides end up acquiring massive disillusionment in captialism
>A communist revolution happens in both sides - and several civil wars start in which westerners are genociding eachother in droves

At this point the global temperatures are 4 degrees Celsius - white people go extinct; purple go extinct - the only people left are small enclaves of tribes living underwater.

>>8214389

and we have reahed the point where youre all out of argument and really saying nothing anymore.
so I guess this conversation is over and I can get some sleep. all hail trump!

>>8214373
JIBUN WOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

shit nostalgic as fuck now, I can't believe this shit is like 10 years old now. Made me kind of happy to listen to that again, but I'm currently losing thousands in the crypto ponzi so I'm still kind of upset

>>8214435
>EVERY country tariffs the fuck out of the US

>c-china

I would tell you to kill yourself, but I feel like you will later in due time, mutt.

>>8214471
Also - here is some actual shit

http://www.latimes.com/world/asia/la-fg-china-trade-warnings-20180130-story.html

This isn't a fight you guys are ever going to win. China is economically way out of the US's league.

>>8212440
>States "Everyone on /pol/ is a literal slack jaw retard"
>Makes it clear he's completely ignorant of the fact that Trump is simply instituting policies equal or similar to thse already in place in the USAs major competitors, notably China.
Wew lad - hope you earned your 1c for this post.

>>8214449
You mean I get to cleanse the commie filth before everything catches fire?

Sweet Jesus I'm loving this timeline more and more.

>>8214436

yes of course US made products will be more expensive than cheap plastic shit imported from china. but again, what do you want more? you want to save pennies on cheap smartphones built by slave labour or you want an american workfore that actually makes decent wages and can afford to buy any products? because you cant have it both. people need to work and they need to eat, you cant just outsource the entire workforce to the third world. to make up for icnreasing costs they could easily lower taxes, stop printing money, etc. etc. those are much bigger issues

>>8214364
>never mind that postwar decades were the most prosperous time in human history.
They weren't really. You worked a hard as fuck factory job and came home to very little.

The 50's seem great because people were happier with less. People were married, not incels. Women weren't radfems. It was more peaceful, families were together and children were happy just playing outside and didn't demand expensive technological gadgets. Material wealth isn't why people were happy.

You know, people were even happy during the great depression years.

The fact that Trump has already implemented conditional exemptions on his tariff indicates this latest piece of news means nothing. It's a means to an end, and that end is forcing other nations into renegotiating trade agreements with the United States. NAFTA talks have been seizing up because neither Canada nor Mexico want to renegotiate to a weaker position, as they should. So Trump has probably followed through on a behind the scenes threat, which is why NAFTA countries have been switched in and out of exempted status on a daily basis. Donald wants no trade wars, or serious tariffs on anyone (except possibly China). He does want the trade barriers of our partners brought into line with what we give them. And you can't get someone to reduce their advantageous position for free, so Trump is going to have start making tariffs up on the fly in order to have something to 'trade away.' Outside of China, these tariffs are all temporary.

>>8214471

>what is protectionism
>what is the EU
>hurr durr

>>8214517
Yeah - it would be fucking great. Hopefully TV will last long enough to get to watch some action

>>8212587
Dried cunts all of them

>>8214229
I bet you're lefty ass is the one shilling dumb shit here amaright famalam?

>>8212639
You're a retard

>>8212588
Alabama

>107 Republicans in congress signed a letter of "deep concern"
>Economists say it's dumb
>Large US companies say it's dumb

B-but this guy on 4chan had a long post saying it was smart and called me a brain-let or something.

>>8214467
Don't lose all you're stupid dumb money on stupid dumb shit before this train leaves forever and realized gains will be shorten.

>>8214518
all i can tell you tariffs are not the answer here. "hurrayyy hurraayyy tariffs on cheap shit!" :D that is moronic.

and no, tariffs wont ever bring back those traditional manufacturing jobs, that is old world. there are plenty of jobs, and
they are all tech.

>>8214578
>caring about the GOP
fag

>>8212440
I supported Trump in the beginning, thought he'd do decently well and that all the hate and noise was just butthurt liberals blowing things out of proportion.

I still don't think he's guilty of direct collusion or treason or any of that nonsense but he's definitely incompetent.

Might be treading into conspiracy-theory territory but I think he may actually be sabotaging the Republican party deliberately. He was, afterall, a lifelong Democrat who lived most of his life in NYC brushing elbows with liberals. After his term is up I don't think we'll see another republican President for 12-20+ years, and maybe that's his intention.

>>8214541
>protectionism
Yeah - only thing that you mentioned that is true. Even then that doesn't affect american farmers as much as it affects Canadian consumers

>EU
Literally what? Name tariffs readily implemented, by the EU, on a close ally of theirs, and also explain to me how these affect the US.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/07/eu-reveals-proposed-steps-against-trumps-metal-tariffs.html

Fucking with EU is only going to increase your reliance on China. Fucking with China is only going to end up with you being fucked.

>>8214382
???????
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEHOINUSA672N

>>8214104
Since you were curious, here is some real world data regarding the EU:
Average tariffs for US export to the EU is under 3%. There IS a clear trade deficit between the two. However, EU isn't one of the main export destinations for the US, whereas 20 % of EU export goes to the US.

>>8212440
back to lefty pol, faggot

>>8214602
this

China's manufacturing sector is not only cheaper but orders of magnitude more developed than the US's. What is America's Shenzhen?

>>8214578
>107 Republicans
Owned by Jews
>Economists
Literally worse than fucking Astrologers
>Large U.S companies
Owned by Jews, but yes it will be worse for them. The hope is that it will be better for small and middle sized firms, as tariffs allow a manufacturing base, and hopefully a blue collar middle class to develop.

>>8214613

>name ONE country that does tariffs
>*names china*
>name one more I dare you
>*names EU*
>pff but that doesnt affetct US workers. name ONE specific instance how it affects americans

nice moving the goalpost there faggot

>>8214621
:
>Average tariffs for US export to the EU is under 3%.
3% is kinda high by WTO standards but hey. If USA wanted in at the CETA KR TPP table.. also Europe? Steel comes from Brazil and Korea.
>There IS a clear trade deficit between the two.
I have a trade deficit with my grocery story and an overall trade defcit 13 days of every fortnight. Who cares?

>>8214529
Yeah. Starving and hiding food in the house. I'm sure they had a GREAT time.

>>8214614
>https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEHOINUSA672N

youre not very good at reading stats are you?
median household income is literally back to the level where it was in 1999. so in other words its been stagnant for 19 years and thats not even factoring inflation you dumbass. at an average of 2% inflation a year (the real number is much higher) thats a 36% loss in purchasing power. meanwhile the GDP has grown 15+% and none of that money has ended up in the hands of the average american worker.

>>8214060
Mexico literally borders us and charges 16% to import anything from the US. Cross the border sometime faggot

>>8214637
>the hope
>hopefully
>hopefully develop
>Economists are idiots when we have *hope*
>....oh and JEWS, always jews

>>8214707
>its been stagnant for 18 years
Yeah going sideways for 18 years you fucking moron. Thats what happend
Also dat goalpost move
>median income is down.
>actually its at an ATH
>Uh yeah but its barely up from previous ATH after recovering from a huge crash ao thats down
>inflation
DO you know what the word REAL? means in economics? It means it is calculated with inflation you fucking moron. This is after calculating inflation.

>>8214786
>>8214707
And thats before we even through in drops in CPI, let alone huge corrections for technology improvements.

What is this "tariff" called I never heard of this crypto before. When did the ICO start?

>>8212440
the prevailing view in economics is that all tariffs are bad apart from those which are needed to be retained for national defense. this is because as long as a lot of trade is being done everyone will benefit through competition. this is true for people with capital in america but is part of the larger process of globalization. if you are just labor and dont have capital globalization is fucking terrible for you. it's amazing it doesn't get more backlash. it will hurt the overall level of wealth but move the wealth divide closer

>>8214456
Learn what standards of living are you fucking imbecile

>>8212440
ehehe... tariffs or not, the US is going inside ass. deep.

I recently found out why everybody in the US is saying McDonalds is cheap.
I thought to myself "how the fuck is this cheap? For that money I can buy wine and cook for 4 people"...

But then I saw it.
Some burger american on YouTube could not cook.
Just not able.
Then I've researched it more.
HOLY FUCK! US burgers can't cook for shit!!!!!
Then it hit me. There are no fresh vegetables in the US. That's why the fridges are so big. That's why they think McDonalds is cheap.
Confess, you microwave heroes! Can you or can you not cook at least mid-tier?

It's the stupid, economy!

>>8214840
Anyone can cook.
Its literally just following basic instructions. The problem is lazyiness.

>>8214663
Not saying that you should care. I just delivered facts since you asked. To me personally it seems like Trump yet again has bitten off more than he can chew. Then again, I am neither a world economist nor a politician so what do I know? Then again, neither is anyone else here.

>>8214887
Yeah sorry. Didnt mean to be aggressive. I do thank you. When I brought up trade deficits though I wasnt denying them. I just meant they dont matter.

>>8214786

>http://www.businessinsider.de/real-household-income-over-time-2017-5
Federal Reserve data shows people are earning less than they did 17 years ago. But the real story is even worse than that.

The chart below shows that median income in the US is actually down over the last 17 years and is only 3% higher now than it was 30 years ago. Those are inflation-adjusted numbers.

you still wanna argue that the sky is purple?

>>8214840
gibe pierogies you dirty polack

>>8214646
>>name ONE country that does tariffs

Never said that, you utter fag.

>>8212540
>not going to become fodder for the bankster oligarchs.

jew.jpg

The only people defending this shit are deluded trump tards, he can't do anything wrong in their eyes and if you point it out you are a libtard commie. My friend who works in the steel industry even told me this is retarded. My friend is a customs/trade broker with a significant share of business importing of foreign metal though Canadian ports to the US market. He tells me it is simply amazing that several large metal fabricators will pay and wait for shipments from China to arrive over purchasing from nearby foundry operations, and that plants 1/2 a world away with high transportation and lead times can undercut a supplier 500 miles away.

This isn't metal being used in infrastructure either. This is raw or finished metal being used for everything from general goods (like cutlery, furniture, automotive, bedding, food prep, ect) to commercial/industrial applications. This tariff will impact everything.

>>8214824

i know what it means. you have zero arguments. eat a dick.

I don't care if this comes back to bite us in the ass. As long as it keep commies, sjw and libtards crying I'm 100% behind based Mr President.

>>8215002
My other friend who's a broker*

>>8215019
Exceot this policy is commie as fuck you retarded dipshit

>>8214945
lol I thought "pier" was french tortellini.
I know russian pelmeni, seems those polish ones are quite the same.
LOVE EM.
PS: In russia, pierogi are lumbs of white bread filled with either cabbage or meat

>>8214875
I swear to god I've looked at youtubers, and they blatantly explain they have never cooked.
Like, around 20 years old.
Don't get me wrong. We hear a lot about great restaurants in the US, and free refills.
But McDonalds being cheap??? Only one who can not cook can say that shit!

>>8215056
Don't care, actual commies hate it because it's Trumps baby. That's literally all there is to it.

>>8214921
That is a terrible chart. First of all talk about cherry picking ATHs.
Second of all its literally complaining that is up. Like you said it was down cause you can't read fucking graphs than cited an article literally saying it was up. From the previous ATH. Then the article ignores actual summations or average costs of living CPI etc etc. And just picks the few things that have gone up in price. Of course these are skewed by big cities and the influx in demand for them rather than just "dude jobs in china!" Realistically nobody education spending gives a fuck about that. And they will probably end up ahead of median income anyway.
Now of course this is always based on some dumb assertion that technology or growth don't exist so we are stuck in some zero sum Sollow Trap, saying "we can create growth by tweaking the savings rate but wait but wait depreciation is catching up!" Reality is quality of life is actually way a fucking head of the cherry picked previous ATH income. For starters I have a phone more powerful than existed in the world back then. I can post on 4chan while answering a call at home. We have made strides in medicine and shit available to everyone. But lets just discount all that!

>>8215002

the ironiy is that you just made an argument in favor of trade tariffs. there is no way a US company can compete with chinese companies that use virtual slave labors. bring in trade tariffs and local companies become competitive again. of course you also need to lower taxes, deregulate... all that good stuff that trump is already doing. anyway it just goes to show that its good that the teconomy is not in the hands of libtards who have zero understanding of economics. just too bad that we live in a democracy where ignorant idiots get to have a vote and competent people have to bring them in kicking and screaming every inch of the way. but whether you like it or not trump will #MAGA

Trump trying to destroy the free market makes him a communist and all his supporters brain dead socialist twats
Prove me wrong you can't
He is an enemy of capitalism

>>8215009
Enjoy dying from the common cold
But hey at least bread is cheaper right

>>8215079

>muh cherrypicking
>WHO CARES ABOU US WORKERS BEING JOBLESS IF I HAVE A BETTER IPHONE!!

youre a literal parody of a soyboy bugman
also your jarbled post doesnt make all that much sense. all I could see is that basicall you disagree with official stats from FRED and Business Insider. ok then. enjoy your iphone and your rick and morty episodes lmao.

>>8215121

youre still not making any argument here
no idea what youre trying to imply. that lower wages are somehow made up by better medicine? at least try to form a coherent argument, throwing out lazy oneliners is just a waste of everyones time.

>>8215082
Many of the specialty grades of steel used in US naval and aerospace applications are not and will not be made stateside. They have to be sourced from DFARS countries.
So not only do they have unplanned for tariffs about to hit on close to 1M of incoming material to pay for, the government is going to start paying way more for their ships and aircraft too.
He is screwing many American small businesses with this move and screwing over the already ludicrous military budget. It's a retarded move and you're only defending it because you're brainwashed to defend anything Trump does.

>>8215082
I find it baffling how little people can possibly understand the most basic fucking concept that is "trade."
>how can we compete in thing they have comparative advantage in
You don't. That's why you are TRADING them for it. Realistically the US has an absolute advantage in most industry but the reason you cant "compete" is because the opportunity cost of commiting to shit jobs is so high you cant do it.
>>8215145
Jobless.
This is a circle now.
Unemployment is record low, you just counter it with the baseless assertion there are more disgruntled sesrchers than ever before. I dont know why retards hate the technology point. I guess part of false nostalgia is denying it. Im sure the Amish have it fucking great too!

>>8212530
it shows how advanced the U.S is on it.

>>8212440
We need to become more economically independent so when our currency collapses we have basic industries functioning in the United States. If we don't have that, we won't be able to feed our families. Since our current levels of debt make a currency collapse seem closer than farther, this is a pretty urgent concern. In that sense, tariffs are smart. They will hurt steel consumers, but they'll make sure steel is something still available to us after the dollar is worthless. The petro dollar will end, our huge deficits will hasten its demise. We have to get ready.

>>8214919
Yeah, I agree on the deficits. Trade has steadily increased both ways since the 07-09 recession and has got to resulted in more jobs. Let's see what this trade war will do about that.

>>8212530
>Every other country in the world has heavy trade tariffs on the US for every single good. Sometimes a flat rate but usually 10-20% at least. .
You cant even do this as a member of the WTO fucktard.

>>8215198
>That's why you are TRADING them for it

uh huh
and what exactly do you propose should they trade if the US produces basically fuck all. and if china just steals all the tech and creates their chink knockoffs?
you fell for the ancap meme dude

>Unemployment is record low
*yawn*
its a circle alright. numbers are doctored, people who have dropped out along time ago arent even factored in. yada yada.
I already showed you that the US household has less income than it used to aand youre still pretending as if thats not happening. so whatever.

>>8215178
My argument is you don't know what standards of living are

>>8215259

i know what the standard of living is you dipshit
I made an argument that people earn less now than they used to and you try to argue about semantics and that we have better cold medicine now.
you are an idiot and wasting everybodys time here.

>>8215290
You are a retard. Please stop posting.

>>8215290
>standards of living has tanked by all metrics
Is what I originally replied To. If you agree with that then idk dude, you're a brain dead cunt and there's nothing else to it.

>>8215322

not an argument

>>8215324

youre arguing semantics anon. the last retreat of someone who really doesnt have anything of substance to say. let me rephrase then: people earn less now than they used to and that is a direct effect of globalization and outsourcing of jobs. you got an argument or you wanna keep nitpicking semantics?

>>8215255
>and what exactly do you propose should they trade if the US produces basically fuck all.
>and if china just steals all the tech and creates their chink knockoffs?
Seriously do you comprehend comparative advantage at all? Absolute advantage doesnt matter. Its the RATIO of producing x over y. If for some reason the ratio was the same across the board you dont need tariffs then nobody trades. China isnt giving you cheap electronics out of fucking charity moron. Obviously they want something in return and its not just to frame USD. Also china buys a lot from Canada who buys a lot from USA.

>its a circle alright. numbers are doctored
Evidance?
>people who have dropped out along time ago arent even factored in.
Disgruntled searchers are higher now because....? Evidance...?
There are less people lying for benefits now because??? People who dropped out of the labour market are a top concern because???
.
>I already showed you that the US household has less income than it used to
But your own source even admitted it was up 3% from the previous ATH, adjusted for inflation. And thats before the cheaper cost of living.
>aand youre still pretending as if thats not happening. so whatever.
What exactly?

>>8215079 what is this selective subjective art of the graph?
>>8215082 "all the good stuff" you shove up your ass
>>8215145 >>8215178 >>8215197 Complain some more
>>8215201 advanced? In imploding maybe.
>>8215205 financially independently BITCONEEEEEEECT
>>8215198 >>8215224 even more rants

Can we ... please ... discuss the most important of em all topics.
WHY
CAN'T americans (northern sp.)
COOK?
>>8215068
Why they say is cheap to buy McDonalds burgershit?
Is not cheap at all!!!!
I see all those ameriyoutubers, in their mid 20s. They tell me they have NEVER cooked?
Couldn't believe it. No wonder overpriced burgers seem cheap. It's fucking expensive as fuck!
Why don't you learn cooking in school. At least basic cooking...

>American manufacturing can't compete
>Should we look into moving the American workforce into other industries?
>No! Lets make American manufacturing artificially competitive using tariffs, this should fix everything even though the underlying economic factors driving manufacturing away from the US haven't changed

Beyond that I think it's stupid that Trump is evaluating the state of the US's economic relationships through trade deficit alone. It's one factor. Using trade deficit as a measure of how beneficial a relationship is to the US is flawed. It's also incoherent given that Trump's tax plan will likely increase trade deficits.

There's a legitimate discussion to be had about the degree to which countries put up barriers to US exports or engage in unfair trade practices like dumping state subsidized products into our markets. These can be addressed through a number of mechanisms, not just tariffs. Also tariffs do nothing to address practices damaging to the US economy like the Chinese government subsidizing their own industries to out-compete US based competitors.

It's legitimate to complain that other countries have higher barriers to their markets than we do, but the solution to these barriers is trade agreements that lower them, like TPP that Trump decided to pull out of. TPP would have eliminated tariffs on certain US exports and boosted US exports in general. Now every other country in TPP gets the access and trade benefits of the agreement without us.

The best argument for tariffs is that it is a more efficient source of government revenue than income and corporate taxes. A lot of tax dollars are spent on simply enforcing and collecting taxes such as income taxes. If you're gonna have a government at all, there will need to be some revenue. Ron Paul supports mild tariffs/excise duties, not due to protectionist ideology, but as a source of revenue for a small government.

>>8215361
Stop moving goal posts you retarded fuck
Prove that standards of living has tanked by all metrics
Or kys whatever I don't care. One less mouth breather in the world

>>8215385

dude are you retarded? I literaly posted you the numbers. should I post that shit again?
as for unemployment numbers that is common knowledge and no Im not gonna google that shit for you. you can ask any social scientist worth his salt or simply find out in 5 mins of google yourself. and you still havent even answered the single question of what the US is supposed to trade when they basically export fuck all.

how the fuck do you expect a first worlder to compete with a third worlder that has a fraction of the living cost? I honstely have no clue what you are even talking about youre just saying a bunch of garbled nonsense really.

>>8215457
Oh I can see your standard of living has dropped since the 70s exactly.
And I can see that from the other side of the globe.

If you can't... . ... .. .well...

>>8215457

lol youre a legit dumbass and have no argument whatsoever
ok yes we have better cold medicine now than 30 years ago. doesnt change the fact that peoples income has gone to shit and that is what we are talking about here. but I guess it doesnt count because now our iphones are so much faster lmao

>>8215443
I will somewhat concede this with the caveat of US only being a large open economy.
The theory is the price increase for US consumers shifts the whole world demand curve left. This reduces the world price. In turn the total cost increase for Americans is less than the revenue from the tariff. In terms of actual technical Deadweight loss IDK if its more efficient but lets use it colloquially. Problem is countries counter it by bring on their own tariffs to punish you for cheating. But you underestimate the cost of enforcing it. Rules of Origin can be insanely expensive. Even just Canada with milk racks it up. No add something complex. The raw materials for a car come from Canada it gets engineered in the USA with part manufacturing and US human capital then if is assembled in Mexico. How do we tariff it? What if 1% of the parts come from Japan? How do we actually break it all down? How do we track every material? What if shit like steel was shuffled around to avoid tariffs? Its insane. Nine common market european countries spend a lot on this.
>>8215477
Yes please post them.
>unemployment is common knowledge
Well im afraid your publicist wont accept that here and you need ciation sorry.

>>8212647
>USA imposes tariff on steel to Europe.
Not even what happened you fucking idiot.

>>8215599
*Non-common market.
>>8215616
>USA puts steel tarrif on Europe
To which they reply
"K" and Brazil and Korea proceed to dump.

This will just work out as another tax. There are winners and looses of course but over all it has no effect. The government's budget is so far removed from its revenue the extra tax won't change government spend one bit. The FED will still monitor inflation and manage the monetary base accordingly.

Steel workers in the US and steel consumers overseas might benefit slightly at the expense of everyone else, and the government gets a few more shekels so will sell slightly less bonds and the FED will buy slightly less bonds. But if you think this going to drastically effect US manufacturing you are delusion.

US manufacturing has never declined, only the jobs, 99% of which due to automation, not foreign competition. Trump supporters can ignore this a long as possible but it won't change the fact that US manufacturing jobs are never coming back. Time to move on, there are so many better, more profitable jobs these people could be doing.

>>8215503
It's not the best time to boast about "american medicine"...
I can't get this much opium in my country from any drug dealer.
And maybe that's the reason the military is protecting afghanistans opium poppies...

Imagine america would be great again...

Now imagine Mr. Trump...

Now imagine someone in real life calling him "Mister"... top kek!

>>8215636
Common sense in /biz/?

>>8215599
I'm guessing it's so complex now because the tariff rules are meticulously designed to try to make trade "fair", if you changed the perspective to just trying to use them as a source of revenue you could make things more uniform and simplified if you tried.

>>8215636
Sounds "true dat"

European leaders are preparing for the "robocalypse"... where there is too much automation. Norways tryout, giving wages without jobs, has been shut down.
Other projects follow.
Gonna be ugly if we don't prepare.

>>8215636
This post is too high of a quality for this thread. Please say something about the jews to offset it.
>>8215720
Not really that. Just how well integrated the world supply chain is. We arent just mining minerals creating the materials engineering the product assembling it and sourcing the oil for transportation all from the same city. Even if you just want to make it every other country and "finished" goods that is open to interpretation and abuse.

>>8214435
Yeah let's follow the China way of doing things. I'm sure that's exactly what you want.

Brainlets literally everywhere.

>>8215950
Not to mention Chinese facebook and such is too control information not for an economic advantage...

>>8212440
That's because they don't know that taxation is theft.

>>8212588
Soldiers don't eat steel, dumbass.

>>8214104
>Boo fucking hoo anon. The economy can't survive just trying to satiate all unskilled frictional unemployment. The world will leave you behind.
Friendly reminder these "people" will sell you your family and our entire nation out for a fraction of a cent.

>>8214229
You know these tariffs effect Russia as well right?

>>8216183
No but armored columns and artillery batteries do

>>8212440
All you have to know is that:
1. Trump got in as the 'america first' candidate, he will obviously do this since he's not in the globalist group.
2. The tariff Trump mentioned will be change accordingly depending on country in the near future. The fact that people keeps forgetting Trump's "grand strategy" is just retarded.. Trump sets a very high number at the start of the negotiations just so he can meet people in the middle, which makes them feel good about the deal and Trump gets what he wants.
3. Past presidents have been wanting to do the same since DECADES back, but noone had the balls because the entire world will obviously get angry if the largest economy tells them that they have to pay up. Trump's different though and everyone knows that.
4. Europe will falter the same second they meet with Trump. The chinese however will be a tough crowd, but will hopefully agree on some terms to avoid a trade war. Everyone knows that the chinese economy is EXTREMELY fragile and that they have lied about their past growth in several sectors. So would they risk a trade war? Hell no.
5. When the news took place, DOW increased and so did the dollar.. which means traders doesn't fear that this will hurt the US.

The reason so many are against this is simply because it hurts the globalist agenda, they have painted the picture that nothing except an open market works in this world. Which again is simply false.
Prices might increase for americans on goods, but so will the dollar and their wages.. which means the quality of life increases for americans overall in the long term.

>>8213961
Holy shit. Underrated

>>8212440
The US has two options. Let China an authoritarian regime subvert the US economically and destroy it militarily or confront China. Choose. Not American but I would take the US over Russia an China any day. God Bless President Trump

>>8212654
>not really the case
wow it sounds like you're talking out of your ass . . . because you are. do you have literally any facts to back that up? 99% of all IC and metallurgical manufacturing is done overseas and imported here (if it isn't completely done overseas). China has way too much control over our electronic hardware and chemical and physical raw materials. we're literally China's bitch because we have no 21st century manufacturing infrastructure to survive without them

t. engineer