/biz/ - Business & Finance

Yes
/thread
saged

What the guy above me said

> What's up with everyone becoming one these days?
good pay
work from home
a skill that is actually useful outside of work, gives ability to hit it big with a decent idea
what's so hard to understand?

>>8111551
Only big brains can code

easiest way to get decent money

>>8111551
web3 dev needed please respond I'm ready to fucking top myself I just can't manage it

sadly yes, it's the classic cuck profession because most nerds and otakus are into programming since they are teens
they don't see pussy in college and have to settle with a roast beef after their 30s

>>8111551
It pays 3-5 times more than typical office jobs. Hell, even as lowly manual QA that click on things all day you make more than government official. Eastern Europe here, just for reference, outsourcing is exploding right now as every American thinks his farting app for iPhone will be the next Facebook.

>>8111551
people who call themselves coders think they can qualify as a software engineer because they did all courses on codecademy and watched youtube videos.

no one on reddit is a professional software engineer

>>8111551
t. unskilled NEET

>>8111551

Betas become coders. Alphas hire coders to make their projects.

>t. Alpha who makes his living hiring devs to make his software

Software Engineer here

I went into .NET and now I have to work with pajeets every single fucking day

Never go into .NET, find something else, do it for your own sanity

>>8111703

I have 600k in crypto and live at home rent free. Stay mad wagie

>>8111593
Uhhh, Neet coder fag here, how do you do this?

>>8111806
Step one move into city of population at least 500k, nobody is hiring beginners remotely and in smaller cities most work is setting up company blogs. Better yet first get job, then move. There should be at least 30 open various junior position in the area at any given time.

>>8111779
>live at home rent free
If you can call that living

>>8111581
This, only people who hate programmers are jealous fucks.

Also implying that all programmers are soyboy numales is retarded. Most (((men))) are soyboy numales now. I've worked with programmers who were elite athletes and total chads. I've also worked with programmers who were trannies and dumbfucks. The one thing that is similar between all of them is they're making a fucking dickton of money.

>>8111551
all engineers are soy boys every single one of them I might was a low test beta. All the chads in IT went for info sys and winded up being the managers of the code monkey soy boys or are systems analysts

Eh you don't need to be an actual software engineer to call yourself a CODER XD I guess. I'm a fucking geologist and I spend 80 % of my time coding shit

>>8111745
This.

>>8112011
How about stuff like github?

>>8112047
This. Fucking this black/white thinking is way too simple of a model for the Real World.

>>8111779
you got lucky. if something ever happens to your funds you're fucked since you have no value as a human being. don't forget it.

On friday we code faggit

>IT one of the fastest growing fields for several years
>people of that generation go to university for that aiming to make money and also to not have to socialize much
>gee why are all the autistic fucks majoring in this?
If you weren't a brainlet you'd already know.

>>8111701
this.
nu-males in this area are nothing more than code-monkeys.
real software engineers, data analysts, BI-analysts are pretty alpha in my experience

>>8111551

seems like it, sit in front of a computer all day while your manager works you like a slave. My old roommate was in software engineering with a 4.0 gpa, but he was an absolute faggot. Dude had huge health problems at 21 (had to take medication daily for everything from blood pressure to other shit) and was also a complete boring fucker. One time he got drunk and tried to fight me too, and I choked his ass out in front of his friends, no larp he wasn't hard to control since he was out of shape and I train submission grappling. he did make good money though, but I mean as a mech E major I am willing to keep my sanity instead

Sorry guys, coding is literally a pajeet job

If a pajeet can do your job, you don't have a good job

>>8113122
lol american pajeets are all doctors and engineers, there's even an Indian governor of louisiana I think. I guess all of those positions are bad jobs according to you

>>8111551
>/biz/ is clueless again.

No, web design is. The closer you are to developing at os-level and using higher level math, the closer you are to being a wizard. And then you have archmages who can flawlessly connect low-level processing power to higher level stuff like web.

>>8111551
>>8111564
>>8111576
>>8111642
>>8113118
>>8113122
t. brainlets

>>8113161
>your average coder
>high level math

kek

>>8113161
this is /g/tier elitist fantasy. only a handful of companies in the world need to work on low level architectural stuff, while every business in the world needs websites and/or mobile apps.

>>8111551
I've been at it for a couple of decades. Found a distressed company that was being squeezed into being a subcontractor on account of no money for good information systems. Built systems that made them competitive but not competitive enough to drop millions on software licenses and the training to use them. Still have to be present to collect salary while toilers regularly thank me for making the organization great.

Most coders are cucks who don't understand that they can turn around distressed companies and pull the same shit that financial do while remaining free of oversight because they can't afford someone who can call you on what you do.

Chad programmers study power dynamics, game theory, and learn to project Expert Power & Authority in the workplace. I'd fucking neck myself if I were the guy in OP's picture.

>>8113323
>Chad programmers study power dynamics, game theory, and learn to project Expert Power & Authority in the workplace. I'd fucking neck myself if I were the guy in OP's picture.

Met people like this. Had the displeasure of working with them. They usually produce shit and power-play instead of making the software better. Absolute fucking cancer.

>>8113122
>if anyone from a country of 1.2b people can do your job, you have a shit job

>>8112011
Learn solidity. Go to crypto meetups. Go to business networking meetups. Bring the latter to the former. One of them will shit money into an ICO and hire you to program it at a disgusting premium your presence will make them feel like they are in control of this new thing that they don't understand. Hire some older ESL Chinese programmers to assist you because they won't shit talk their boss to their other boss (you are in a big city right)?

Bonus points if you are a white male who isn't autistic in meetings.

>>8113200
Checked. Also checked that you have no reading comprehension. I said the closer you are to developing at os-level and using higher level math, the closer you are to being a wizard. Considering every language can [though they technically shouldn't] be used to make any program, you could program the whole of Autodesk Maya with nothing but python and then use py2exe and other executable distro tools to put together your finished product. It would be a nightmare, but a ''''coder'''' who can do that is a modern-day euclid.

>>8113292
We're not talking about practicality here. We're talking about skillsets and their respective hodlers.

>>8113380
I don't know why, but game theorists tend to be cunts.

>>8111551
Yes.

>>8111671
Incorrect. I do networking at my job, get paid 90k compared to 60k for the developers. All the network team are white guys who go to the gym and have wifes or gfs, all the developers are pajeets or pasty-white cucks.

>>8111587
Only boring brains can code. Staring at a screen debugging is the most soul sucking things I've ever done. Under Programmer in the dictionary it should just have "tedious job" as a synonym.

Im a software engineer, the team is actually made of all kind of different guys. Some are more nerdy than others. but all around they're all quite cool in their own way.

Advantage is that you get shit done with a bunch of guys. No women to ruin the show. Except those fucking HR and "corporate" girls running around the office for no fucking purpose.

You can get a job anywhere in the world and get paid super well.

I'd say its a super cool job.

>>8111551
LURK MOAR
SAGE & HIDE
GO BACK TO /pol/

>>8113479
"they're all quite cool in their own way."

*tips fedora*

My god you faggots are cringe. Pic related is you and your coworkers.

>>8113515
I live in Europe dipshit, we dont have that level of degeneracy (yet).
We have 2 fat engineers, the rest are fit. Actually the fittest guys are all in the tech team.

>>8113515
>be you
>see someone else doing well with their life and working with people they enjoy
>get upset

hmmmmmmmmmmm
:thinking:

>>8113380
>game theory
Man that made me laugh my ass off

>>8113489
this is not a pol topic faggot, it's discussing a career how is it pol, I hate poltards but creating a pol scapegoat for things you don't like is the same shit they do with jews. stop. also that girl looks horrible

>>8113459
yep, I had to code for my engineering classes, goddamn that shit was boring and repetitive/tedious as fuck. it honestly requires some level of autism to perform day in day out

>>8113515
Even the dog is fat.

>>8113562
>yep, I had to code for my engineering classes, goddamn that shit was boring and repetitive/tedious as fuck. it honestly requires some level of autism to perform day in day out

All work has tedium. Be it repetitive processes or practice so you don't get rusty. People just tend to be selective and have rose-colored view of other professions. Many big-brained have the same data they look at and the same research they carry out day-by-day. The method to the madness is that it produces good results.

Programming can be very interesting, but not only do you have to be ok with doing the repetitive and tedious process of debugging (and doing it well), you have to be building purposeful and complex applications. At least that's how I see it.

>>8113562
you're a fucking autist, probably some civil engineer pleb.

Programming is vital to any significant engineering job nowadays and the better you are the more important you are.

>>8113562
>muh "you are the same as them! XD"
>muh "I'm not a poltard, but..."
Also, you have shit taste.

>>8113380
See, my strategy doesn't involve programming in a team. It involves joining a struggling enterprise and righting it. "The software" in this instance is taking a best fit, free, open source application and developing into something that lets a distressed company punch above its weight class until it is no longer distressed. If you want to reap the same rewards in this company as the MBAs and directors, you'd best understand that you are viewed as nothing more than a resource and that power dynamics enter into pretty much everything these people do.

A programmer can easily make the inner circle after half a decade of programming all of the business practices and building relationships with department heads to integrate them.

This is not for people who want to work their way from junior programmer to architect. This is for people who want to establish positions similar to the ones every programmer had available in the late 80s, early 90s. Back then things were crazy. I kid you not, there was a fucking guy who would wear sweat pants and a t-shirt to his office job. He would habitually piss himself out of sheer mental illness and laziness. That guy was indispensable because the 80s had so few people who could write functional, custom code.

Developers today have no chance unless they're legitimately talented or have studied data sciences. I feel sorry for them and think they could do with insight into what programmers can do outside of startups and blue chip companies.

>>8113479
Aerospace engineer here,

so whats the deal with computer engineers, outside putting together servers and other computer related infrastructure where you're more akin to an electrical engineer, what actual engineering do you guys do? how is a software engineer at say Blizzard similar to someone at Boeing.

>>8113729
What don't you understand? Have you programmed before?

>>8111551
Blue collar brainlet detected.

>>8113763
so how does being a programmer... make you an engineer...

If by that logic all programmers are engineers, then you guys are just a bunch of technical larpers which is my current opinion anyways

>>8113729

Here's a quick system of tiers to explain differences:

Low-Tier: You can design User Interfaces and make them nice and pretty. This goes for websites too. As a front-end developer you're literally an interior decorator. Still, if you're practical and your code is sublime(kek), you're a valuable asset to any software engineering team.

Mid-Tier: Here we start seeing software that isn't very visual (unless specifically intended for visual purposes) and requires more abstract formulation. An example of such visual software would be a game with semi-real physics (this being a catch-all for lighting, motion, collision, etc...) like Overwatch, to use your Blizzard example. The guy who can program the physics engine for Overwatch is pretty much a complete physics nerd already, but he has some leeway in that it isn't a representation of reality.

High-tier: These are the elven gods of programming. Here you have real-world physics simulations, real-world lighting simulations, and all types of complex scientific computations beyond what the common mortal mind ponders. This is the tier for those who rewrite online applications in Haskell, Assembly, and Brainfuck(this one just for fun).

But to put it succintly: It's about complexity, readibility, and neatness of code.

>>8114047

Actually, I left out a bunch of important shit like databases and os-level stuff, but I didn't want to write a blog post.

>>8113729
Software engineers are not engineers

source: mechanical engineer

>>8111551
It's funny everyone wants to be a coder when most people I know hate programming. There's other high paying jobs out there in tech, yet no one seems to know about them.

My brother does design, and he's the lead designer at a large startup. He's been doing design for 5 years, he makes $300k/yr.

My sister's in her 2nd year of university and she just got an internship offer at a startup. The offer is for $28/hr, relocation stipend, and rent stipend for the summer.

>>8114123
>My brother does design, and he's the lead designer at a large startup. He's been doing design for 5 years, he makes $300k/yr.

Design of what? Tell us what your brother studied.

>>8112047
keep lying to youself

>>8114123
he "does design" for 300k

umm right we believe your story

>>8113292
put 'programming microcontrollers in C' in your resume, car manufacturers start contacting you for some reason

>>8114145
UX/UI Designer or just simply Designer, every single tech company in the world needs them (unless the product is not user facing). He's the lead designer so he manages a team of other designers, and spearheads all major design initiatives - he recently finished completely overhauling their website and mobile app's look and feel.

A designer has a huge role, and is responsible for the product's look, feel, and function. They usually come up with pixel-perfect mocks of each screen of a mobile app, or each page of a website. These get handed off to mobile/front-end developers who then implement the designs.

>>8114201
Okay, stay ignorant. Programming is the only position in a tech startup, durr.

anyone who calls himself software engineer without proper academic background is liar

>>8114268

I can see that happening if he works for a big company like Microsoft and he's the lead designer for an Office product or something, but a big startup? Holy shit, color me surprised. Usually startups pay you in pennies and dreams and future equity.

I guess he has good stuff under those 5 years of design.

>>8114309
Software engineer vs developer is pretty much interchangeable. There's no criteria for one vs another, it's just w/e you decide to call yourself.

>>8114104
Engineer: a person who designs, builds, or maintains engines, machines, or public works. A software engineer does just that with software.

>>8114104
go back to /sci fag

>>8114286
How misinformed can you be?

>>8113161

Web dev is booming right now dude. Javascript has the largest open source community of any language, that's why the shit changes so fast. I did a lot of low level programming in C during uni but after being assigned a web dev position in my first job with 0 web dev experience I'd have to say this stuff is no joke either. JS Frameworks change so quickly you can never get comfortable.

>>8114330
Startups in SF pay pretty well. I can't speak for other places, as I've seen some of their salaries and it's usually pretty low in comparison. There's lots of startups that are unicorns ($1B+ valuation), and these tend to pay closer to (microsoft/netflix/google/apple/amazon) levels.

Most mid-range developers and designers here get ~$120-140K base. That's not including stock options (which are worthless 95% of the time).

Senior developers and designers can get $140-170K.

Leads/directors can usually get a lot more.

>>8114412
>Uni started us off learning C
>Great for understanding computing languages and how they interact with hardware
>Since then only OO and database languages
>Zero web dev classes, even for electives
But yet there are so many web dev jobs and even opportunities for self employment (building own app/website). Sucks but I guess I'm just going to have to learn that skillset on my own time.

>>8114382
Been working in SF as a dev for 6 years and in over 5 startups, so not very?

>>8114047

>You can design User Interfaces and make them nice and pretty

Most Software Engineers who do backend stuff or write simulations wouldn't know how to make a pretty looking website. Web design is a discipline
in and of itself.

>>8114412

Well, I'm trying to get into it myself so I'm a dirty hypocrite. Still I'm referring more to stuff like Ruby on Rails that attract the vegan nu-male crowd. The people who are arrogant about making a web widget with a search bar. From what I've been learning about Javascript, it's sometimes weirder than Python. I like C and C++ and all the statically typed stuff.

>>8114448
Fuck's sake. How are the downsides to San Fran though? I hear the traffic, hobos, and rent are all ass. The pay sounds good enough to bear the latter a bit though.

It's the most lucrative and biggest burgeoning industry since everything is becoming software driven

If making great money to code shit is nu male then I don't want to be anything else u soygoy

>>8113459
>Staring at a screen debugging is the most soul sucking things I've ever done
Is "soul-sucking" code for "baaaaaaaaawwww the big scary compiler doesn't hold my hands and talk about my feelings with me ;_; wheres my estrogen pills"

Every fag who complains about STEM being "soul-sucking" is an estrogenated faggot who wants more fag feminine pozzed bugman work like teaching retarded japanese children english or some equally stupid shit. Just kys if you can't handle numbers.

>>8114047
gotcha, so pretty much upper level math gods with a strong science understanding is a good software engineer. I can stand behind that I was thinking about it and I suppose attempting to use an all encompassing definition for engineers is kind of a moot point.

working in teams, producing complex systems, and using a scientific method to approach problems is really all an engineer is.

>>8111587
Only unimaginitive brains can code

The kind who have no comprehension of spirituality or creativity. Basically hardcore atheists ...

>>8114465

Part of it is because the stuff changes so fast so they'd have to be changing up their curriculum every semester or two. And someone who was taught it their freshman or sophomore year would be obsolete by the time they graduated. Of course it's not the superficial trendy tech that is important to know, but the core CS fundamentals which don't change.

>>8111551
It's the 21st century equivalent of a carpenter. But the pay is better, an the bar is lower.

>>8114512

Of course, it would still take time and practice to learn. I'm just saying it's not as abstractly challenging as, say, optimized real-time lighting dynamics where you need D E E P knowledge of other disciplines.

>>8114518
Ignore what everyone tells you about higher living cost not being worth it. It's worth it.

If you're looking to live in a good location in the heart of SF, rent for a 1 BR apartment can be $3500. I wouldn't recommend that though, most people here end up renting a 2-3 BR apartment, then splitting it with 1-2 housemates. A 2 BR apartment is usually around $4000, so that's $2K per person.

If you're looking to live a little outside of SF and commute in (usually through BART or the Ferry), then you can usually get a place that's 60% the cost. Commute is usually 40 min, but not as bad as driving since you can just go on your phone or read.

>>8114557
i bet you break into tears at the sight of algebra and cry about how "soul-destroying" calculus is

>>8114518

Javascript is a clusterfuck of a language but it's the current hotness so there's no choice. Certain front end frameworks like Angular 2+ use Typescript which gets compiled to JS which is a bit nicer to use.

>>8114378
yes, a place where you can not enter

>>8114604
Thanks for the info, anon. Much appreciated

>>8114619
Kek

>>8114604

What if I can't stand living with roommates, am I fucked?

>>8111551
>every other cuck on this site and reddit is a CODER XD
when your subucultrally-induced idendity, copy-pasted from a vietnamiese sweatshop suggenstion box discussion forum, interferes with you being able to accept the techno-future and going with the natural flow of human, civilatory progress

lol... the nu-males are just the vocal ones. the ones who can code a few lines of python and think they're like the big boys now goin on twitter and cuckbook to shit up the place with their CODER MEMES LEL.
because of walking, talking normie-stereotypes like this most of us just don't talk about it and let people who still didn't get over the
>MUH NERDS MUH GEEKS ME ALPHA
meme be left in the dust just like the beta males that claim to be alpha just by going for pseudo-conservative values that just happen to make you the perfect slave-worker for (((them))), just like chad, the archetype you're supposed to reach for to win (((their))) game...

didn't proof read. i hope you get the message.

>>8114619
No because its nothing but logic, basic level algebra is all thats needed for coding, doesn't change the fact that its dull and repetitive.

I code in python for 3d software, I'd hate to do it full time and would rather be CREATIVE and would prefer to outsource to a pajeet if I could but they'd fuck it up

>>8114706
You're a fag for spending the time to write that.

>>8114714
>I code in python for 3d software

Jesus christ, no wonder you're bitter

>>8114714
>i wrote some shitty boilerplate python therefore I know that all CS is uncreative work
just kys retard, you're too stupid and unaware of the limits of your own knowledge for a """discussion""" with you to be worthwhile

>>8114703
You could probably get a studio for like $2.5k. Probably cheaper if you live in a meh location. Even in SF there are some pretty cheap places, it's just seedier or far away from downtown.

You could always live outside of SF too and commute in.

>>8113161
What kind of os-level development needs higher level math? You're fucking retarded.

>>8111745
Or just don't be shit at your job and work at firms that actually matter. .NET is great, and you're retarded if you let some street shitters change that for you.

>>8114806

Should've used 'or' there but whatever. To answer your question, a future OS for Quantum Computing , you nigger.

>>8114806
I mean, most work lower than user mode services requires a fairly comfortable understanding of some more discreet math concepts? OS engineering is real work compared to web babby shit

>>8114571

It's much better than being a carpenter. I won't die of skin cancer when I'm 40 and my frail soyboy body won't be broken by the backbreaking labor.

>>8113515
What is the origin of that pic? I laughed way too hard. An actual Reddit Meetup?

>>8113122
There's a reason why the biggest tech companies in the world don't outsource to India. It's because most programmers in India are absolutely terrible, and will only do the bare minimum to complete the requirements of the contract. This usually means sloppy/buggy/unmaintainable code.

Is outsourcing great for building a prototype? Sure, as long as you're prepared to completely scrap and rewrite it. Is it good for an actual end-user product or for a building reliable/scalable codebase? Fuck no.

There's a huge talent shortage right now. There's a ton of developers, but not enough good ones. Big companies are willing to pay hand over fist in order to attract the good ones.

>>8111551
i fell for this meme in school but Im looking at a different career

I see OP has hit a soft spot, lots of defensive cucks and redditors in this thread. Listen, software engineering is a good profession - but that doesn’t change facts.

>>8115016
So you never understood pointers? Nice.

>>8111611
Sup faggot
I make six figures off ether ponzis

What you need?

>>8115055
This, you're such a fucking stud, would suck your dick

All I wanted was a cozy office job so I went to school for Computer Science
Suddenly all of 4chan starts hating cs/programming at once
I'm not going to change but fuck it's nervewracking. I'm so scared of being unemployed

>>8115066
Dumb question: Are ponzicoins the only web3 projects worth making these days? Or do other novel meme coins have a chance?

in addition to being ground zero for faggotry, it is the ultimate brainlet profession. Can you count? Ok you’re now a “CS” expert

>>8115123
Sure, you can make whatever memecoin you want but in the grand scheme of things, it's just a ponzi anyways. The winner is the developer and the loser is the dummy who's carrying bags when the hype dies off

>>8114866
Quantum computing isn't relevant at all at the OS level you retard. Goes to show how much you know about both.

>>8115105
go to /sci/ for true CS hate
what you see on /biz/ is nothing

>>8114806
yep he’s exhibiting classical signs of brainlet faggot syndrome. probably thinks donald knuth and andrew ng are smart. (hint: they’re not)

>>8115223
(spoiler: they kind of are tho)

>>8113455
I described things how there are here in Eastern Europe. No pajeets here. Average office clerk job is 2-4k/month, typical gov official starts from 2k and after he gets to 3k will not get raise for years. Meanwhile programmers start from 3-4k (even as QA, more if js/react programmer), get regular 5-7k after 2 years, and 12-15k before five years. More if you specialize in some catchy tech or work at local office of American startup.

>>8111551
they may programm php or python
try c++ or even c for embedded devicea
THIS is where coding gets nerdy

>>8112612
Recruiters do ask about "github link" and it will probably help you prove your technical skill, but only after you solve test task like all other candidates. Your real struggle will be proving you can work in a team, have good communication skills and know current state of the art in the non-programming part of the job (do you even scrum? lol).

>>8115320
you recommend c/c++ for embedded if we want to get into deeper stuff that the average soyboy wont do?

But it pays well, especially if you're working remotely from a poorer country to a richer one. And at least here in my poor country, there's a shitload more job offers in software compared to electrical/mechanical/civil engineering (which makes it quite easier to get raises when jumping from a company to another). Having said that, most of the work is boring and soul destroying (but I guess that's most jobs).

>>8115998

C is the bread and butter, but I would have a look at Rust also. However, embedded pays less than regular web development for several reasons:
1- There's quite a bigger demand for web developers than for embedded dudes;
2- It's quite difficult to be able to work remotely if you're developing embedded systems;
3- Web development is somewhat easier than embedded (I say somewhat due to the 'javascript fatigue'), so it's interesting to work for a while if you intend to have a more laid back life.

>>8111551
What's the fastest way from someone who doesn't know programming to learn programming and make money off of it?

DESU I think most anons/gamers/neets would chose to be admins/users and use their (((technology skills))) to admin rather than contribute 1/100th to fucking MSWord or any other POS business software. At least I get to sit while I'm (((wage cucking))). Fuhkkin /biz/

>>8114663

JavaScript is a god tier language which allows you to do literally anything and anyone who thinks otherwise is a DYEC.

t. react + express + sql (lol nosql)

>software engineer
>work from home 100% of the time
>barely do ANYTHING for my job, work maybe 5 hours a week
>hate my life and my meaningless existence

Pick all of the above. I wish I had learned a trade like welding or something. At least then my life would have a purpose.

>>8116219
>>work from home 100% of the time
>>barely do ANYTHING for my job, work maybe 5 hours a week
what the fuck are you complaining about?

>>8116250
Did you not finish reading the post. A lazy meaningless life fucking sucks

>>8113161
IMAGE MAGIK MAN!!! SHITPOSTING ON A SAGE THREAD LIKE A CHAMP

CODERZ 4 LIFE XDDDDDD

>>8116317

Pick up a side gig to focus on

>>8111551
software engy here
the office sees the latest cape shit thursday nite and talk about elun musk all the time
but its not too bad the nice thing about software engy is u just space our at ur desk most the time and get a big paycheck
cant complain

>>8116426
>engy

Hello pajeet.

>>8111551
>software engineering
>software
>engineering
Fuck off. This shit is not engineering.

>>8116348

Damn right, a job is just a job. You're in a GREAT position to pick up a meaningful hobby/side-hustle and work on that. Just don't let yourself remain complacent.

Question for programmers here, what future is there for c# i've been getting pretty good with it the past few years but since .NET isn't getting dev love from Microsoft how long can it go for?

I have an idea for a dating app that takes use of the degenerate zeitgeist and has a unique feature.
I'm a bit paranoid about the fact that you can't protect ur idea legally.
For example Kikebook wanted to buy Snapchat and the Snapchat faggots refused so Kikebook did just steal the Snapchatstories without any legal issues.
Do you have some advice?

>>8116208
lmao boy you fucking retarded

js is a FUN language, not a good one. It's objectively dog shit. TypeScript makes Javascript pretty good, but even then you're still at the mercy of the V8 engine.

Cute tech stack tho. They are a lot of fun to build toys with.

>>8116806
What do you suggest then? I'm trying to get paid.

>>8116710
Look into .NET Core and .NET Standard before you spread Pajeet tier FUD.

C# is a solid skillset to learn, so long as you know what you're doing. Learn ASP.NET Core, C#7, and Docker, and then git gud son.

t. OS Engineer who uses C++/C# daily

>>8111551
Yes become an iron worker if you want to be tough

>>8116853
If you want to keep the lights on those are good skills. Keep focusing on React, but learn how Typescript can help you. Once you see why TypeScript is good, explore C#, WebAssembly, and golang, then get ready for the next wave of cloud compute.

Also learn Python and ML. You're necking yourself if you don't

>>8116853

>>8116917
Forgot to clarify: WebAssembly is about to change shit on the web in a big way. Javascripts time as the lingua Franca of the web is over

yes coding destroys your brain.
I wish I would have just continued on with my art instead.

>>8116219
Welding is miserable
I knew two people who did it because they didn't have the grades for college
They both expressed their sincere regrets and told me to stay in school (I was very young at the time)
Where are people here reading that trades are a cakewalk people in those jobs drop like flies from opiod abuse

>>8116862
Heard that, will gladly take your advice
thanks anon, your mom is gay

>>8117186

>>8117126
this
trades dont age well
lots of trashy people and every other one is on pain pills
fine to start with when you're young but most people don't last so important to have something to fall back on

Is it easy to work on your own as a software engineer? How is the money? Do I need a comp sci degree (I am getting a non-STEM degree next semester, I could always get a Master's)

>>8116208
cringe at not knowing the use-cases and usefulness of nosql

as an architect, I hate brainlet frontend devs such as yourself

>>8111551
I'm not even a nu-male, I just genuinely like computer science and have always done very well in math and programming. I make pretty decent money doing it, too.

Coding =/= software engineering by the way. Software engineering deals with every part of designing software systems, while coding is just implementation (and also the easiest part of the whole process, mostly done by entry-level devs). Learning "coding" will not prepare you for serious work in software

>>8115202
Why do they hate CS so much? It’s not all the Math PhD 300k starting fags is it?

>>8116208
JavaScript is a god tier language. but what does that make TypeScript, which is a superset of JavaScript and therefore objectively superior? Typescript/React/Express/Sequelize+Postgres with webpack neatly bundling everything is such a nice setup

>>8118310
>console.log(9999999999999999 == 10000000000000000);

>>8111551
It's an easy job and pays over $20 an hour. Literally no reason not to take it on unless you want your job replaced at McNiggers lol

>>8118347
damn i can't really defend that. i've never had a bug due to that but it still seems like an odd design decision

js was one big mistake and should only be used very sparingly, but webshits just don't understand ...

>>8118089
'Coding' has more meanings. In the beginning before first programing languages were created 'coding' was inputing instructions to the computing machine. Later it got reputation as a clerk job while programming started to be talked about. But with the advent of high-level languages 'coding' reemerged as people started to use that name for low level programming first in assembly, then sometimes even in C as object-oriented languages started to pop out. Thus begin great flame war between "true coders" that had to know internals of the system and "lazy programmers" who used wizards and other creators to write their "bloated and inefficient" programs. It lasted till late 90s when high level languages dominated the field and assembly is mostly not talked about. Then in early 00s the term got reused again by people who wanted to rebrand "programming" as something cool, the same people who "hack together apps"...

>>8118523
Well I guess it's similar to the question of does .9999999 === 1 which seems to be controversial in the mathematical community. so I don't think the JS stance on them being equal is that weird.

>>8118547
try to name a language with a better web dev experience. you can't. javascript/typescript are #1

once you eliminate jscucks, 'frontend developers' general larpers, and people that just went to 'code camp', there are reasonable number of programmers around.

>>8118583
it's not .99999, it's just 99999 (no decimal) and it happens because JavaScript decides to store every number as a 64 bit double type which is prone to precision errors

JS doesn't even have a native integer type

16 == [16] → true
16 == [1,6] → false
"1,6" == [1,6] → true

JavaScript is a clusterfuck and that's why they added === as a way of skirting around the unpredictable quirks of its typing system

>>8118666
satan trips of truth.

also, === ? what the fuck?

>>8118640
once webassembly is supported by most browsers, literally every other language that compiles to it
until then you should just stick to plain html + minimal amount of js + css, the problem is not really js itself but most of the people making use of it

>>8118721
Just for shits and giggles you should look up JavaScript's "Abstract Equality Comparison Algorithm" to see why == is completely broken in JS

>>8118737
>completely static site downloads several scripts

>>8112047
ridiculous
anyone of sound mind who works with programmers ends up hating programmers
they are universally insufferable

>>8118666
to me they're the same problem, the discrepancy in both scenarios happens because of precision related reasons. But yeah I guess JavaScript is known for having a lot of questionable quirks like this. Still in my experience they never really cause problems in the process of making apps.

>>8114512
This is how I know the guy doesn’t work in the industry and is a wannabe.

Haskell as god-tier? Oh Lordy. I’ve worked with academics before and they routinely write the most unmaintainable shit code, and spend far too long coming up with solutions because they care too more about the problem less about the business goals

lost my passion for programming after making it with crypto
feels bad and I wanna get back to it but everything I come up with requires so much work I give up immediately, like how can I actually make something worthwhile without a team?

>>8118815
imagine being like this

>>8111551

I see a mad brainlet, but yes, I agree. Web developers and nudevs are trash.

>>8118815
They're not the same problem, .999..... is mathematically equal to 1 and this can be demonstrated using math

javascript taking 9999999999999999 to be equal 10000000000000000 just stems from lack of precision

>>8118755
and several mb of the latest react/vue/angular fw or whatever is cool at the moment

>>8118857
you mean rich and successful? it's fun

>>8118898
i don't care what your fancy math problem says, .999... is not truly equal to 1

>>8114536
Project much? 1 programmer out of 8 is a trannie while only 1% of the population is transgender even by the most optimistic leftist statistics.

>>8118934
In either case, it has nothing to do with this problem which could have easily been avoided by just having a separate integer type

every other language does this because it's stupid to store and operate on integers and floats in the same way, this is just one of many problems with JS in general

>>8113292

It's not about "how many people need it". It's about what a competent programmer is. A competent programmer is well-versed in algorithms and their analysis, has some understanding of how their software stack works and would be able to reimplement most of it should he set his mind to it, cares about optimisation whether it be speed/memory/whatever.

This is what CS courses used to produce, in the 80's and 90's. Now they are business oriented and no longer produce that kind of student.

>>8114412

It doesn't matter that it's booming. Most of the web development community are not very competent and you can see this by how they keep having to reinvent the wheel so they can shoehorn JS into just about every context.

>JS Frameworks change so quickly you can never get comfortable.

You're not wrong, but this is a fault of the very poorly built toolchain and ecosystem, not that the tasks that people complete are typically very complicated.

>>8114806

None, and OS development is very much grunt work to be honest. You might think it's interesting, but then you have to deal with the inner depths of hell that is x86 and IBM compatibles. I think there should be an "or" in what the anon said there.

>>8116208

Angular 5 + serverless + DynamoDB fag here. It's aight.

>>8115066
Nice anon, nice.

I'm trying to learn solidity and had a stinky linkies ponzi ready to launch, but I couldnt figure out the web3 to do the site. Would love to have a hand with some of the front end stuff (I'm only really interested in learning solidity so spending time on the front end stuff is painful)

Thanks in advance, drop me a discord or something x

>>8115066

Have fun getting v& and being Tyrone's cockslut

>>8116721

I've thought of a million degenerate dating app ideas and literally all of them have been done already. Although I haven't gone down the list of all degenerate fetishes so there's probably some that still haven't been done.

>>8111745
I use F#, literally no pajeets. Your problem is that you're using pajeet-tier tools like C#.

Anyone here in ux/hci?

>>8111779
>live at home rent free.
How’s the depression treating you?

>>8118721

== does type conversion but JS's type conversion is fucked so everyone uses === now

'5' == 5 --> true

'5' === 5 --> false

>>8112047
this is true. can confirm, software engineering wagecuck (130k+) in NYC

>>8114178
>>8118783

Buttmad brainlets spotted

>>8119154
>This is what CS courses used to produce, in the 80's and 90's. Now they are business oriented and no longer produce that kind of student.

Anecdote here. I don't think that's true. At my school it was very academic, maybe 15% about applied programming and 85% math and theory, focusing mostly on more abstract concepts than "hands-on" business-oriented stuff. Optimization, time/space complexity, and common data structures and algorithms are still taught in college CS programs, at around the sophomore level.

t. graduated from no-name state school in 2015

>>8114557
>Programming doesn't require creativity to solve problems.

Lol, you must one of those estrogenated numale "artists" or "designer".

>>8111722
This

>>8118834

Leverage existing libraries or products and tie them together. Don't be autistic like me when I first started programming and try to reinvent the wheel at every layer of abstraction.

>>8111722
Enjoy getting shafted when your top coders leave your company.

>>8120124

Maybe not all universities, but it's starting to get rarer and rarer nowadays.

im learning to program but refuse to enter front-back end web because i dont like it that much. im interested in data analysis, machine learning etc but i dont have a cs degree. am i fucked? fuck my life, is web dev really the only choice it sucks dick

>>8113395
>only if there are less than 1.2b job openings

>>8120463
>Dev-ops
>tester
>obscure stuff expert

>>8120632
Please elaborate, especially on obscure stuff expert. I've got 2 years full time neet lifestyle to learn anything to my hearts content. Been studying/programming 8-10 hours a day lately. Is it possible to get a job in data analysis, ai, machine learning, cloud and the like? I hope to get a job in 6 months tops.

No. Learn the common interview questions (don't just memorize them). Build a Github repository. Apply to nonprofits and eat a smaller salary while having tremendous freedom to improve. If after a few years you feel like it, use your practical experience, and any open source project contributions that you got work to pay you to build, to be your "experience or education". You should also do those developer beer meetups so people can get to know you while you improve. Do some of those open MIT courses to guide you on what you're expected to know and practice.

It's fucking hard but you can make your way without a degree.

pajeete poo in the looo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixJgY2VSct0

>>8120804
>cobol
>cognos
>qlikview
>vba/excel
>sharepoint
>Creative programming (processing/p5.js)
>Cassandra/Scylladb
>ansible
>Nifi
>terraform
>dcos